Succession: Rehearsal
April 3, 2023 5:47 AM - Season 4, Episode 2 - Subscribe
Episode description inside…
After Shiv discovers that Tom is following Logan's playbook, she, Kendall, and Roman consider backing Sandi and Stewy's aggressive play on the Matsson deal. Meanwhile, Logan gives an impromptu pep talk to the ATN newsroom... and outsources a tricky conversation with Kerry. Later, Connor tries to make the most of his rehearsal dinner when Willa goes AWOL.
After Shiv discovers that Tom is following Logan's playbook, she, Kendall, and Roman consider backing Sandi and Stewy's aggressive play on the Matsson deal. Meanwhile, Logan gives an impromptu pep talk to the ATN newsroom... and outsources a tricky conversation with Kerry. Later, Connor tries to make the most of his rehearsal dinner when Willa goes AWOL.
I didn’t like this episode as much as the previous one. I feel like in the Succession-verse, there are episodes that set the stage for big things to follow (like the Boar on the Floor episode) and the episodes where big things happen (like the previous episode) and this episode felt like the former. Those episodes can be powerful but this felt uneven. That said, maybe I was just thrown off by Kerry’s reel. And some of it just felt predictable. Roman, buddy, this happened already. He’s not going to make you king.
I felt for Roman because Kendall and Shiv talked him into going after PGM and now, by torpedoing Gojo, it seems like they’re completely driven by spite. So besides cutting off their own noses to spite the face, what do they actually want to do? They tabled The Hundred and they don’t have the cash to buy PGM. He’s itching to do something and he can’t right now because of them. Logan’s right - they are not serious people. And Roman (before his appearance at Logan’s house) was being earnest - they wanted to see his phone, he let them see it. If they’d looked at each other’s phones, Kendall and Roman would have seen Shiv called Sandi, and Shiv and Roman would have seen Mattson called Kendall.
My favorite part was the karaoke bar. It was sweet that that’s what Connor really wanted to do. The last two episodes, Logan has been unusually vulnerable (saying he wanted them at his party and apologizing sort of). I thought that could have been really powerful but the kids threw it in his face. They could have gotten a genuine(ish) apology for cutting them out in Italy but Kendall wanted to bring up the past with Connor and Roman - and it was a good brother move but that wasn’t the time.
Connor’s speech about learning to live without love felt like it was too much but maybe it was right for the character? He’s always been the most earnest (probably because he had spent the least amount of time with Logan).
Highlights: Shiv shooting down Kendall’s idea for “Homework: The Show,” Cyd continuing to call Tom her social secretary.
Questions: why did Kendall flip from supporting the Gojo deal? If it was just to mess with Logan, he would have been interested before Mattson called. What was it about the call from Mattson? Or was it the numbers?
posted by kat518 at 7:19 AM on April 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
I felt for Roman because Kendall and Shiv talked him into going after PGM and now, by torpedoing Gojo, it seems like they’re completely driven by spite. So besides cutting off their own noses to spite the face, what do they actually want to do? They tabled The Hundred and they don’t have the cash to buy PGM. He’s itching to do something and he can’t right now because of them. Logan’s right - they are not serious people. And Roman (before his appearance at Logan’s house) was being earnest - they wanted to see his phone, he let them see it. If they’d looked at each other’s phones, Kendall and Roman would have seen Shiv called Sandi, and Shiv and Roman would have seen Mattson called Kendall.
My favorite part was the karaoke bar. It was sweet that that’s what Connor really wanted to do. The last two episodes, Logan has been unusually vulnerable (saying he wanted them at his party and apologizing sort of). I thought that could have been really powerful but the kids threw it in his face. They could have gotten a genuine(ish) apology for cutting them out in Italy but Kendall wanted to bring up the past with Connor and Roman - and it was a good brother move but that wasn’t the time.
Connor’s speech about learning to live without love felt like it was too much but maybe it was right for the character? He’s always been the most earnest (probably because he had spent the least amount of time with Logan).
Highlights: Shiv shooting down Kendall’s idea for “Homework: The Show,” Cyd continuing to call Tom her social secretary.
Questions: why did Kendall flip from supporting the Gojo deal? If it was just to mess with Logan, he would have been interested before Mattson called. What was it about the call from Mattson? Or was it the numbers?
posted by kat518 at 7:19 AM on April 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
Another question: why is Logan turning on Gerri??
posted by kat518 at 7:48 AM on April 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by kat518 at 7:48 AM on April 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
What was it about the call from Mattson?
Kendall’s motivation is scuppering the deal. Mattson’s call seemed genuine to him - push and the deal is off. So he wants to push. Whereas I think Siobhan genuinely thinks they can get more money because she has regrets over offering 10 bil.
(I think!)
why is Logan turning on Gerri??
Because she laughed at the tape, and Logan is sexist so can handle Hugo laughing but not Gerri.
(I think!)
posted by chill at 7:57 AM on April 3, 2023 [5 favorites]
Kendall’s motivation is scuppering the deal. Mattson’s call seemed genuine to him - push and the deal is off. So he wants to push. Whereas I think Siobhan genuinely thinks they can get more money because she has regrets over offering 10 bil.
(I think!)
why is Logan turning on Gerri??
Because she laughed at the tape, and Logan is sexist so can handle Hugo laughing but not Gerri.
(I think!)
posted by chill at 7:57 AM on April 3, 2023 [5 favorites]
I do think Shiv really thinks pushing Mattson is going to get them more money, but she seems to be more interested in out-Loganing Logan than actually thinking it through. Kendall's reaction to Mattson's call is confounding, though. His entire drive in that truly seems to be just sheer spite. He's OK tanking everything--and completely screwing himself and his siblings-- if it gives his dad a black eye. I don't think there's any question that Mattson is sincere, he's been iffy about this whole thing from the start, and I think Kendall knows it. I think him being ready to nuke the deal is a direct lead-in to Logan's dead-on appraisal that the kids are not "serious people." Roman, bizarrely, is currently the only one of them actually looking out for all of their best interests. And we know Roman has good business instincts, but he's easily railroaded by Shiv and Kendall to do what they want even when he knows it's a bad idea.
I think Logan started shutting out Gerri after he found out about her thing with Roman. I'm not sure if it's just that he was grossed out about it or if he saw it as some kind of betrayal and/or worries that they might be dangerous if they're allied. In any case, he was definitely cooling on her by the end of last season already.
posted by tomorrowromance at 8:26 AM on April 3, 2023 [7 favorites]
I think Logan started shutting out Gerri after he found out about her thing with Roman. I'm not sure if it's just that he was grossed out about it or if he saw it as some kind of betrayal and/or worries that they might be dangerous if they're allied. In any case, he was definitely cooling on her by the end of last season already.
posted by tomorrowromance at 8:26 AM on April 3, 2023 [7 favorites]
Another question: why is Logan turning on Gerri??
I assumed this was fallout from the dick pic texting thing with Roman last season. Still sexist (punishing Gerri, rather than Roman, the actual perpetrator), but I didn’t read it as having anything to do with Kerry’s audition, myself.
About the audition, I got the sense throughout the episode that Logan knew the tape was bad from the start and was just looking to see whether anyone would say so to his face.
posted by Kosh at 8:26 AM on April 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
I assumed this was fallout from the dick pic texting thing with Roman last season. Still sexist (punishing Gerri, rather than Roman, the actual perpetrator), but I didn’t read it as having anything to do with Kerry’s audition, myself.
About the audition, I got the sense throughout the episode that Logan knew the tape was bad from the start and was just looking to see whether anyone would say so to his face.
posted by Kosh at 8:26 AM on April 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
Getting rid of Cyd feels insane to me, but I guess it's practical. If Logan wants to start micromanaging his cable news network, he needs to get rid of its ruler. ("Cyd doesn't stay late during opera season," lmao, Tom is such hilarious trash.) Pulling Roman in comes with the side effect of pushing Gerri out, at least temporarily, because Logan doesn't want to think about Gerri and Roman having sex.
Shiv's sudden conviction that her dad was right and they overpromised on Pierce is absolutely linked to learning, moments before, that Tom took all the good divorce lawyers and worrying that she was the less savvy one. I think Kendall and Shiv have both convinced themselves there's more money to be made, but also, crucially, that they wouldn't mind it if the deal exploded anyway.
I'm guessing the kids will not assume control of Pierce News after all, so we'll be missing the "global-global or hyperlocal" news, and also, what's going on in Africa.
Connor echoes my old theory that being the ignored kid made him emotionally healthier than the other kids, but didn't realize that the last two seasons invalidated that theory. He was the emotionally healthy one when he spent all his time on a rich-guy ranch and wouldn't shut up about blender-aerated wine!
posted by grandiloquiet at 8:57 AM on April 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
Shiv's sudden conviction that her dad was right and they overpromised on Pierce is absolutely linked to learning, moments before, that Tom took all the good divorce lawyers and worrying that she was the less savvy one. I think Kendall and Shiv have both convinced themselves there's more money to be made, but also, crucially, that they wouldn't mind it if the deal exploded anyway.
I'm guessing the kids will not assume control of Pierce News after all, so we'll be missing the "global-global or hyperlocal" news, and also, what's going on in Africa.
Connor echoes my old theory that being the ignored kid made him emotionally healthier than the other kids, but didn't realize that the last two seasons invalidated that theory. He was the emotionally healthy one when he spent all his time on a rich-guy ranch and wouldn't shut up about blender-aerated wine!
posted by grandiloquiet at 8:57 AM on April 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
Also -- I don't buy Logan's apologies. As he said to Kerri in their meeting, it was a soft approach to keep the deal on track. It was strategy. And it worked! He didn't manage to get all the kids to behave, but playacting vulnerability brought Roman to the table. It was probably the best high Logan has had since he very dramatically mocked his children's failure to their faces during their last meeting.
posted by grandiloquiet at 9:03 AM on April 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by grandiloquiet at 9:03 AM on April 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
I really liked this article on Connor.
Without so much as taking a break from the high-stakes wrangling over the GoJo deal or the high farce of Tom (Matthew MacFadyen) and Greg (Nicholas Braun) trying to handle Kerry (Zoe Winters) and her awful audition video for ATN, they've managed to deliver the definitive Connor Roy episode without ever needing to indulge in a trendy "departure episode" to do it.posted by HeroZero at 9:30 AM on April 3, 2023 [4 favorites]
Re: Gerri, someone on Reddit pointed out that once the Gojo deal goes through, Gerri works for Mattson, not Logan. When Gerri advocated for doing a photo with the two of them, Logan took it as a sign she’s already working for Mattson. The dick pic fiasco is another strike.
I’m not convinced Logan’s apology was completely insincere and I think he genuinely missed them at his party. It was helpful in persuading Roman but I think he was most of the way there already. He made a face when Shiv and Kendall were talking that made it look like he knew they weren’t behaving rationally. But Roman is also not behaving rationally if he expects things with Logan to be different this time! Plus if Logan tosses Gerri and elevates Roman, she can tell the press that Roman sent her dick pics.
My zany hopeful theory was that Kerry intentionally made a shitty audition tape so Logan could see how Tom would respond to it. Oh well.
I feel like the first two episodes have made it very clear that Logan is off his game and I wouldn’t be surprised if he actually dies. It seems like Kendall is plotting something. I’m sure Connor’s wedding will be a chill affair though. Just like the other weddings.
posted by kat518 at 10:43 AM on April 3, 2023 [3 favorites]
I’m not convinced Logan’s apology was completely insincere and I think he genuinely missed them at his party. It was helpful in persuading Roman but I think he was most of the way there already. He made a face when Shiv and Kendall were talking that made it look like he knew they weren’t behaving rationally. But Roman is also not behaving rationally if he expects things with Logan to be different this time! Plus if Logan tosses Gerri and elevates Roman, she can tell the press that Roman sent her dick pics.
My zany hopeful theory was that Kerry intentionally made a shitty audition tape so Logan could see how Tom would respond to it. Oh well.
I feel like the first two episodes have made it very clear that Logan is off his game and I wouldn’t be surprised if he actually dies. It seems like Kendall is plotting something. I’m sure Connor’s wedding will be a chill affair though. Just like the other weddings.
posted by kat518 at 10:43 AM on April 3, 2023 [3 favorites]
Questions: why did Kendall flip from supporting the Gojo deal?
My read was that his rather fragile ego found the call from Mattson to be demeaning - the fact that Mattson feels he needs to tell Kendall what to do feels infantilizing. Kendall's life for much of this series has been various people (as well as events) telling him he lacks his father's instincts, and that he is bad at making the right decision. He wants to make the "right" decision because it's his decision, not because someone (like Mattson) told him to do it - in a sense, Mattson also indirectly told Kendall that he doesn't view him "a serious person" on that phone call, and it stung. I think Kendall has managed to trick himself into thinking squeezing Mattson for more will work, even if part of him lacks confidence - but he's happy to absorb whatever misplaced confidence Shiv has.
While it was fun, I agree Kerry's reel was just a bit too bad. I mean, she's presented as a fairly capable person, and while Logan might have made a promise of sorts she still must have known that she'd need to clear a certain bar - that there would be limits to how much Logan's favor would give her boost. Surely she wouldn't submit a reel with her fumbling over her words? Still, the Tom-Logan and then Tom-Greg dialogue concerning it were delightful.
I don't buy Logan's apologies. As he said to Kerri in their meeting, it was a soft approach to keep the deal on track.
No doubt, but also he's not likely to reveal to anyone if he's feeling actual regret. In his certainly unhealthy fashion, I think Logan does love his kids - he clearly would prefer, in an ideal world, for one of them to take over the company, and he literally arranges Kendall to get away with murder (and then tasks Greg with making sure Kendall doesn't overdose/kill himself). He also clearly has a very hard time loving people who are not 100% loyal to him. But I'd say when he tells Kendall and Shiv, the two who are clearly behind torpedoing the deal "I love you but you're not serious people" I think he's being honest there. I thought his comment to Shiv that he only helped out Tom because Tom asked (whereas Shiv is giving him the cold shoulder) was also honest. All things being equal, he'd prefer to having a loving relationship with his kids, but it has to be on his terms (again, he's obviously not an emotionally healthy guy).
I also think his offer to Roman is legit. He's not offering Roman to take over (not yet) - he's offering him Cyd's job, which will pretty clearly now involve being micromanaged by Logan. Besides the fact that Roman has shown to have good instincts at reading people (he rightly knows they'd be idiots to block the Gojo deal), he has also proven that even if he's not perfectly loyal to Logan, he ultimately trusts his dad more than his siblings. And, unlike Kendall and Shiv, he's actually hesitant about getting too much power too quickly - he knows he's not ready, hence he's willing to Logan's student.
The final conversation between Roman and Logan seemed to imply that there have been actual meetings or phone calls between them lately, and not just a few texts. I wouldn't be surprised if the way the Pierce deal went down caused Roman to start making alternative plans for himself - he knows with his siblings, he'll always be the little brother, and they'll both keep making bad choices out of spite.
posted by coffeecat at 11:09 AM on April 3, 2023 [6 favorites]
My read was that his rather fragile ego found the call from Mattson to be demeaning - the fact that Mattson feels he needs to tell Kendall what to do feels infantilizing. Kendall's life for much of this series has been various people (as well as events) telling him he lacks his father's instincts, and that he is bad at making the right decision. He wants to make the "right" decision because it's his decision, not because someone (like Mattson) told him to do it - in a sense, Mattson also indirectly told Kendall that he doesn't view him "a serious person" on that phone call, and it stung. I think Kendall has managed to trick himself into thinking squeezing Mattson for more will work, even if part of him lacks confidence - but he's happy to absorb whatever misplaced confidence Shiv has.
While it was fun, I agree Kerry's reel was just a bit too bad. I mean, she's presented as a fairly capable person, and while Logan might have made a promise of sorts she still must have known that she'd need to clear a certain bar - that there would be limits to how much Logan's favor would give her boost. Surely she wouldn't submit a reel with her fumbling over her words? Still, the Tom-Logan and then Tom-Greg dialogue concerning it were delightful.
I don't buy Logan's apologies. As he said to Kerri in their meeting, it was a soft approach to keep the deal on track.
No doubt, but also he's not likely to reveal to anyone if he's feeling actual regret. In his certainly unhealthy fashion, I think Logan does love his kids - he clearly would prefer, in an ideal world, for one of them to take over the company, and he literally arranges Kendall to get away with murder (and then tasks Greg with making sure Kendall doesn't overdose/kill himself). He also clearly has a very hard time loving people who are not 100% loyal to him. But I'd say when he tells Kendall and Shiv, the two who are clearly behind torpedoing the deal "I love you but you're not serious people" I think he's being honest there. I thought his comment to Shiv that he only helped out Tom because Tom asked (whereas Shiv is giving him the cold shoulder) was also honest. All things being equal, he'd prefer to having a loving relationship with his kids, but it has to be on his terms (again, he's obviously not an emotionally healthy guy).
I also think his offer to Roman is legit. He's not offering Roman to take over (not yet) - he's offering him Cyd's job, which will pretty clearly now involve being micromanaged by Logan. Besides the fact that Roman has shown to have good instincts at reading people (he rightly knows they'd be idiots to block the Gojo deal), he has also proven that even if he's not perfectly loyal to Logan, he ultimately trusts his dad more than his siblings. And, unlike Kendall and Shiv, he's actually hesitant about getting too much power too quickly - he knows he's not ready, hence he's willing to Logan's student.
The final conversation between Roman and Logan seemed to imply that there have been actual meetings or phone calls between them lately, and not just a few texts. I wouldn't be surprised if the way the Pierce deal went down caused Roman to start making alternative plans for himself - he knows with his siblings, he'll always be the little brother, and they'll both keep making bad choices out of spite.
posted by coffeecat at 11:09 AM on April 3, 2023 [6 favorites]
I feel like the first two episodes have made it very clear that Logan is off his game and I wouldn’t be surprised if he actually dies.
I feel totally the opposite. Logan is sharp as ever, he's reading Mattson perfectly, he knows the kids are out of their depth, he knows Kerry is a disaster on air but is passing off responsibility for telling her, and he's giving rabble rousing speeches on the network floor. Santa the hitman is on point.
I think Kendell just wants to watch the world burn at this point. Despite his sunnier disposition, he still wants to destroy his father's legacy and atone for his own sins. If he has to take down the Gojo deal and fumble his bag as a result, I think he'll live (or not) with that.
posted by schoolgirl report at 11:16 AM on April 3, 2023 [10 favorites]
I feel totally the opposite. Logan is sharp as ever, he's reading Mattson perfectly, he knows the kids are out of their depth, he knows Kerry is a disaster on air but is passing off responsibility for telling her, and he's giving rabble rousing speeches on the network floor. Santa the hitman is on point.
I think Kendell just wants to watch the world burn at this point. Despite his sunnier disposition, he still wants to destroy his father's legacy and atone for his own sins. If he has to take down the Gojo deal and fumble his bag as a result, I think he'll live (or not) with that.
posted by schoolgirl report at 11:16 AM on April 3, 2023 [10 favorites]
About the audition, I got the sense throughout the episode that Logan knew the tape was bad from the start and was just looking to see whether anyone would say so to his face.
He's looking for someone loyal enough to not tell him that they thought she was bad but enterprising enough to get her to back off wanting to be on-air talent without it blowing back on Logan at all. Tom's the guy, but also savvy enough to dump it on Greg.
Siobhan has really looked like an idiot in these first couple of episodes. She basically bid up the price on Pierce by an extra $4 billion all on her own, and then got out-played by Tom on divorce attorneys when he ran Logan's play. Sure, she got "mommed" but it's not like she should have needed Logan to tell her what to do. She seems to genuinely believe that the risks involved in getting another $100 million out of GoJo is worth blowing up the deal.
I think Kendall is fully aware that he's going to blow up the deal, and he just wants to find the big, grand gesture that will finally prove to his dad that he is worthy. He's not someone who really will grind out the work, he's always chasing the quick hit.
Who knew that the one jerking off on his office window in the first season would be the only one of the kids who seems to have any actual business sense.
posted by jimw at 11:57 AM on April 3, 2023 [6 favorites]
He's looking for someone loyal enough to not tell him that they thought she was bad but enterprising enough to get her to back off wanting to be on-air talent without it blowing back on Logan at all. Tom's the guy, but also savvy enough to dump it on Greg.
Siobhan has really looked like an idiot in these first couple of episodes. She basically bid up the price on Pierce by an extra $4 billion all on her own, and then got out-played by Tom on divorce attorneys when he ran Logan's play. Sure, she got "mommed" but it's not like she should have needed Logan to tell her what to do. She seems to genuinely believe that the risks involved in getting another $100 million out of GoJo is worth blowing up the deal.
I think Kendall is fully aware that he's going to blow up the deal, and he just wants to find the big, grand gesture that will finally prove to his dad that he is worthy. He's not someone who really will grind out the work, he's always chasing the quick hit.
Who knew that the one jerking off on his office window in the first season would be the only one of the kids who seems to have any actual business sense.
posted by jimw at 11:57 AM on April 3, 2023 [6 favorites]
Logan seemed "off his game" in the first episode because everything was going his way. The sale was lined up, his troublesome kids were out of his hair, and all that was left was this perfect temple he's built where people worship him and do everything he says. He's never been more all-powerful—but while he craves power, it's useless to him.
It's like the kids said in the season 3 finale: he wants to make the 5 bil, but he can't really do anything with it, apart from stack it up with all the other bil. He wants complete control, but once he has it, he despises it.
The kids' fuck-you brought him back to life. And I don't think we've ever seen him more "on" than he was when he was speaking to ATN. Why? Because if the kids own Pierce, then ATN puts him in direct competition with them. And he seems thrilled at the prospect of getting to show them and the whole world, yet again, that it isn't luck that keeps landing him on top.
He genuinely seems to be reckoning with a softheartedness and a conscience, which is interesting and new. But I don't think he's ready for his glory days to be over yet—whether or not Succession itself is.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 12:00 PM on April 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
It's like the kids said in the season 3 finale: he wants to make the 5 bil, but he can't really do anything with it, apart from stack it up with all the other bil. He wants complete control, but once he has it, he despises it.
The kids' fuck-you brought him back to life. And I don't think we've ever seen him more "on" than he was when he was speaking to ATN. Why? Because if the kids own Pierce, then ATN puts him in direct competition with them. And he seems thrilled at the prospect of getting to show them and the whole world, yet again, that it isn't luck that keeps landing him on top.
He genuinely seems to be reckoning with a softheartedness and a conscience, which is interesting and new. But I don't think he's ready for his glory days to be over yet—whether or not Succession itself is.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 12:00 PM on April 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
he's giving rabble rousing speeches on the network floor.
We've seen Logan's business instincts throughout the show, but I thought this was a revealing moment showing how he might have been building his fortune in his younger days.
Difficult to imagine any of his kids (or Tom) delivering a similarly rousing speech.
posted by imabanana at 12:03 PM on April 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
We've seen Logan's business instincts throughout the show, but I thought this was a revealing moment showing how he might have been building his fortune in his younger days.
Difficult to imagine any of his kids (or Tom) delivering a similarly rousing speech.
posted by imabanana at 12:03 PM on April 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
Why I think Logan is off his game:
- He lost PGM, the white whale he’s wanted for years, to his dumb children, half of whom aren’t talking to him.
- The only people who were at his birthday party were people on his payroll (“where’s your kids, Uncle Logan?”)
- He ducked out of his sad birthday party to go to a diner with his “best pal,” another person on his payroll.
- He cancelled the board meeting because he was about to lose again.
- He’s surrounded by people who won’t tell him the truth and he knows it.
- His appearance at ATN made him look small - yelling from on top of a box of copy paper, bullying an employee for not sending an email quickly enough, and complaining about the cost of a $20 pizza while his employees are making fun of his girlfriend’s audition tape.
Also, I don’t think his speech made sense? I’m paraphrasing but he said something like “people aren’t going to believe what we say because it’ll be so wild” - that’s what we’re going for? What was stopping ATN from going balls-to-the-wall before?
He’s still smarter than the kids but that’s a really low bar. He peeled off Roman, the son he smacks around who desperately wants daddy’s approval. He’s a formidable character and I wouldn’t count him out but season 4 Logan seems very different from seasons 1-3 Logan.
posted by kat518 at 12:03 PM on April 3, 2023 [3 favorites]
- He lost PGM, the white whale he’s wanted for years, to his dumb children, half of whom aren’t talking to him.
- The only people who were at his birthday party were people on his payroll (“where’s your kids, Uncle Logan?”)
- He ducked out of his sad birthday party to go to a diner with his “best pal,” another person on his payroll.
- He cancelled the board meeting because he was about to lose again.
- He’s surrounded by people who won’t tell him the truth and he knows it.
- His appearance at ATN made him look small - yelling from on top of a box of copy paper, bullying an employee for not sending an email quickly enough, and complaining about the cost of a $20 pizza while his employees are making fun of his girlfriend’s audition tape.
Also, I don’t think his speech made sense? I’m paraphrasing but he said something like “people aren’t going to believe what we say because it’ll be so wild” - that’s what we’re going for? What was stopping ATN from going balls-to-the-wall before?
He’s still smarter than the kids but that’s a really low bar. He peeled off Roman, the son he smacks around who desperately wants daddy’s approval. He’s a formidable character and I wouldn’t count him out but season 4 Logan seems very different from seasons 1-3 Logan.
posted by kat518 at 12:03 PM on April 3, 2023 [3 favorites]
This interview with Justine Lupe about how she sees Willa and her relationship with Connor is really interesting. I can't wait to see how the wedding goes.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 12:20 PM on April 3, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 12:20 PM on April 3, 2023 [3 favorites]
If Logan isn't dead by the final ep I'll be furious. He collapsed in the helicopter! The show is called Succession! Not Going on and on for fucking ever!
posted by Klipspringer at 12:50 PM on April 3, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by Klipspringer at 12:50 PM on April 3, 2023 [12 favorites]
Besides the fact that Roman has shown to have good instincts at reading people (he rightly knows they'd be idiots to block the Gojo deal), he has also proven that even if he's not perfectly loyal to Logan, he ultimately trusts his dad more than his siblings.
I basically agree, I think that Logan likes that no matter what Logan does to Roman, Roman will always come crawling back. Which is a version of loyalty. It's also the closest that Logan has gotten to unconditional love. But I think Roman doesn't trust his dad, I think it's like Conner said -- they're all needy love sponges, and Roman is the neediest.
They could have gotten a genuine(ish) apology for cutting them out in Italy but Kendall wanted to bring up the past with Connor and Roman - and it was a good brother move but that wasn’t the time.
I think Kendall did that as a way of shoring up the sibling alliance -- reminding the shakier members (Conner and Roman) why they should hate their dad. But Conner was already feeling like garbage because of Willa potentially leaving him, and reminding him that their dad had ignored him forever and locked up his mom definitely didn't make him feel less lonely and unloved. And Roman immediately started victim blaming himself because of course he would. He's obviously still scared of Logan, and the last thing he would want is Kendall stirring up trouble between them, especially while Logan is right there in the room.
I think Logan was there because he wants to save the deal. But I think everything he said to them was basically true. At least they got an "I love you" out of it.
posted by nowadays at 1:36 PM on April 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
I basically agree, I think that Logan likes that no matter what Logan does to Roman, Roman will always come crawling back. Which is a version of loyalty. It's also the closest that Logan has gotten to unconditional love. But I think Roman doesn't trust his dad, I think it's like Conner said -- they're all needy love sponges, and Roman is the neediest.
They could have gotten a genuine(ish) apology for cutting them out in Italy but Kendall wanted to bring up the past with Connor and Roman - and it was a good brother move but that wasn’t the time.
I think Kendall did that as a way of shoring up the sibling alliance -- reminding the shakier members (Conner and Roman) why they should hate their dad. But Conner was already feeling like garbage because of Willa potentially leaving him, and reminding him that their dad had ignored him forever and locked up his mom definitely didn't make him feel less lonely and unloved. And Roman immediately started victim blaming himself because of course he would. He's obviously still scared of Logan, and the last thing he would want is Kendall stirring up trouble between them, especially while Logan is right there in the room.
I think Logan was there because he wants to save the deal. But I think everything he said to them was basically true. At least they got an "I love you" out of it.
posted by nowadays at 1:36 PM on April 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
The show is called Succession! Not Going on and on for fucking ever!
The real Succession is the friends we made along the way.
posted by kat518 at 2:18 PM on April 3, 2023 [3 favorites]
The real Succession is the friends we made along the way.
posted by kat518 at 2:18 PM on April 3, 2023 [3 favorites]
All I have to say is:
"terrifyingly moseying"
"He’s wearing sunglasses inside it’s like if Santa Clause was a hit man."
and
"So he’s still just kinda walking around but with a slight sense that he might kill someone. It’s like Jaws. If … if everyone in Jaws worked for Jaws."
posted by Crystalinne at 3:13 PM on April 3, 2023 [13 favorites]
"terrifyingly moseying"
"He’s wearing sunglasses inside it’s like if Santa Clause was a hit man."
and
"So he’s still just kinda walking around but with a slight sense that he might kill someone. It’s like Jaws. If … if everyone in Jaws worked for Jaws."
posted by Crystalinne at 3:13 PM on April 3, 2023 [13 favorites]
The show is called Succession! Not Going on and on for fucking ever!
There's no way there aren't Serious Discussions happening at HBO HQ about the sequel series after Logan dies.
posted by mediareport at 4:12 PM on April 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
There's no way there aren't Serious Discussions happening at HBO HQ about the sequel series after Logan dies.
posted by mediareport at 4:12 PM on April 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
This episode leaned more into King Lear than I've seen since the first season.
posted by Stanczyk at 4:19 PM on April 3, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Stanczyk at 4:19 PM on April 3, 2023 [3 favorites]
Great episode. Loved the sharp Connor moment; his brutal self-assessment said so much so powerfully in so few words. Ached at the quick bedroom scene of Willow's return, and adored all the family machinations and confrontations; it's always good when Logan and the kids are in the same room. It's not clear if Kendall is deliberately blowing up his own payout by killing the deal he knows Dad desperately needs, or was convinced by Mattson's aggressive call that Mattson is...I dunno....scared of being asked for more cash? Either one would be totally in sync with his history of self-defeating stupid moves.
E.g., I was disappointed that after season 2's cliffhanger finale with Kendall going public about Logan's culpability in the cruise division cover-up ("my father is a malignant presence"), Kendall was then immediately shown as a complete fuck-up from the start of season 3. The way they removed that conflict - "oh, the documents he had actually weren't all that damning, thank goodness" - was so artificial, but I've made peace with the idea that the show will never give us a Competent Kendall who's a worthy adversary to Logan, so his latest move at least fits with the show's insistence on portraying him as mostly a buffoon.
Honestly, the fact that none of the kids has ever been a worthy adversary to Logan is the show's biggest weakness. We get hints of smart rebellion here and there but over and over again the writers then quickly have the kids make ridiculously stupid decisions that destroy any position of strength they may temporarily hold. It's kind of dull to watch them fuck up repeatedly.
The show's 2nd biggest weakness is the unrealistic telenovela-style soap opera stuff, like Roman having sex with Gerri, Connor's presidential run (remember when he told Roman in season 1 that one of his main issues was onanism?), Willow publicly bailing on the marriage at the damn rehearsal dinner, or the silly drama about Kerry's audition tape (no way last season's Kerry would do that, just no way). Wish the show would stop amping things up with unnecessary melodrama, when the melodrama of the characters themselves is more than enough.
posted by mediareport at 5:12 PM on April 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
E.g., I was disappointed that after season 2's cliffhanger finale with Kendall going public about Logan's culpability in the cruise division cover-up ("my father is a malignant presence"), Kendall was then immediately shown as a complete fuck-up from the start of season 3. The way they removed that conflict - "oh, the documents he had actually weren't all that damning, thank goodness" - was so artificial, but I've made peace with the idea that the show will never give us a Competent Kendall who's a worthy adversary to Logan, so his latest move at least fits with the show's insistence on portraying him as mostly a buffoon.
Honestly, the fact that none of the kids has ever been a worthy adversary to Logan is the show's biggest weakness. We get hints of smart rebellion here and there but over and over again the writers then quickly have the kids make ridiculously stupid decisions that destroy any position of strength they may temporarily hold. It's kind of dull to watch them fuck up repeatedly.
The show's 2nd biggest weakness is the unrealistic telenovela-style soap opera stuff, like Roman having sex with Gerri, Connor's presidential run (remember when he told Roman in season 1 that one of his main issues was onanism?), Willow publicly bailing on the marriage at the damn rehearsal dinner, or the silly drama about Kerry's audition tape (no way last season's Kerry would do that, just no way). Wish the show would stop amping things up with unnecessary melodrama, when the melodrama of the characters themselves is more than enough.
posted by mediareport at 5:12 PM on April 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
Oh, and Mattson is sexist as hell. He calls Kendall and not Shiv with his ultimatum? He should have known better.
posted by mediareport at 5:13 PM on April 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by mediareport at 5:13 PM on April 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
Honestly, the fact that none of the kids has ever been a worthy adversary to Logan is the show's biggest weakness.
The show's 2nd biggest weakness is the unrealistic telenovela-style soap opera stuff
Honestly, I think you're just fundamentally misunderstanding the show, because these two "weaknesses" are the entire point.
So many, many shows about the rich and powerful are about how interesting and smart and capable they are. This show is very explicitly not that. It doesn't worship the rich. It shows how being that rich and powerful (and being born that way, even more so) stunts and twists and warps people. Of course none of the kids are worthy adversaries for Logan, they were broken by him as kids and lived lives of such total ease and privilege that they're basically incapable of anything. None of them are as smart or competent as they think they are, or even really capable of understanding that literally everything they've ever "accomplished" was handed to them on a silver platter because of who they are. Roman is probably the only one who really gets that, but he responds to the situation with nihilistic absurdity.
And, in failing to understand themselves and their place in the world, they end up doing all kinds of dumb shit like running for President or engaging in affairs with coworkers/sexually harassing dad's subordinates or pressuring a live-in escort into marriage because they're so disconnected from actual reality and normal constraints.
If you're looking for a show about the brilliant machinations of the great rich and powerful, this ain't it.
posted by star gentle uterus at 7:44 PM on April 3, 2023 [24 favorites]
The show's 2nd biggest weakness is the unrealistic telenovela-style soap opera stuff
Honestly, I think you're just fundamentally misunderstanding the show, because these two "weaknesses" are the entire point.
So many, many shows about the rich and powerful are about how interesting and smart and capable they are. This show is very explicitly not that. It doesn't worship the rich. It shows how being that rich and powerful (and being born that way, even more so) stunts and twists and warps people. Of course none of the kids are worthy adversaries for Logan, they were broken by him as kids and lived lives of such total ease and privilege that they're basically incapable of anything. None of them are as smart or competent as they think they are, or even really capable of understanding that literally everything they've ever "accomplished" was handed to them on a silver platter because of who they are. Roman is probably the only one who really gets that, but he responds to the situation with nihilistic absurdity.
And, in failing to understand themselves and their place in the world, they end up doing all kinds of dumb shit like running for President or engaging in affairs with coworkers/sexually harassing dad's subordinates or pressuring a live-in escort into marriage because they're so disconnected from actual reality and normal constraints.
If you're looking for a show about the brilliant machinations of the great rich and powerful, this ain't it.
posted by star gentle uterus at 7:44 PM on April 3, 2023 [24 favorites]
Just looking for something a bit more interesting, is all.
posted by mediareport at 11:49 PM on April 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by mediareport at 11:49 PM on April 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
Logan’s speech made me think of Ahab rallying the crew to hunt the whale.
posted by brendano at 12:54 AM on April 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by brendano at 12:54 AM on April 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
As if the metaphor weren't obvious enough, the scheming kids are just playing ka-Roy-oke, mouthing the words of rapacious capitalism over Logan's original version and doing about as well as Connor does with Leonard Cohen. They are intimately familiar with the tune, but they can't sing for toffee.
I wonder if this season will see a reversal of the flee-father dynamic of the first three seasons, with each one slowly coming back to Logan's side (Connor, now Roman ... by logic Shiv would be next, then Kendall though I think Shiv may be the holdout) with the final result a unified "happy" façadily again (maybe owning both PGN & ATN) so they can be tearful and smiling at Logan's wake.
Alternatively, they could come together over the bids, and the mock-apologies, and then be torn apart again just because. There are 8 more episodes, after all.
posted by chavenet at 1:07 AM on April 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
I wonder if this season will see a reversal of the flee-father dynamic of the first three seasons, with each one slowly coming back to Logan's side (Connor, now Roman ... by logic Shiv would be next, then Kendall though I think Shiv may be the holdout) with the final result a unified "happy" façadily again (maybe owning both PGN & ATN) so they can be tearful and smiling at Logan's wake.
Alternatively, they could come together over the bids, and the mock-apologies, and then be torn apart again just because. There are 8 more episodes, after all.
posted by chavenet at 1:07 AM on April 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
RE: Mattson
It seemed to me that Mattson called all the Roys with the exception of Shiv to tell them to take the deal.
posted by oldnumberseven at 3:03 AM on April 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
It seemed to me that Mattson called all the Roys with the exception of Shiv to tell them to take the deal.
posted by oldnumberseven at 3:03 AM on April 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
E.g., I was disappointed that after season 2's cliffhanger finale with Kendall going public about Logan's culpability in the cruise division cover-up ("my father is a malignant presence"), Kendall was then immediately shown as a complete fuck-up from the start of season 3. The way they removed that conflict - "oh, the documents he had actually weren't all that damning, thank goodness" - was so artificial, but I've made peace with the idea that the show will never give us a Competent Kendall who's a worthy adversary to Logan, so his latest move at least fits with the show's insistence on portraying him as mostly a buffoon.
Rewatching Succession to prepare for the final season, one thing that struck me is that Logan fixates, repeatedly, on the word "moves." When somebody does something he genuinely respects, they've made a good move. The handful of people he legitimately finds threatening—Matsson, Sandy, Stewie—are the ones who seemingly understand the game that he's playing, in the sense that they respond to moves he makes with moves of their own.
Conversely, Logan's disappointment with his kids pretty consistently pops up when they refuse to play the game—or when they do something that makes it clear that, while they had a moment of genuine savvy, they don't really understand what they did. And one of the fascinating things about the writing, on rewatch, is that while the kids' perspective is that Logan is a compulsive liar who never intends to give them a thing, from Logan's perspective almost the opposite is true: he gives his kids repeated chances to join him in doing what he's doing, but they consistently misinterpret what he's saying, what he's offering them, and what they ought to do with it.
Kendall, time and again, fucks up by assuming that other people hate his dad as bitterly as he does: whether it's the vote of no confidence in season 1 or his manic episode in season 3, he's just convinced that people see him as the hero vanquishing Logan. Shiv, given a chance, makes it clear that she thinks she's the smartest person in the room, and is thoroughly unable to detect when other people are playing her. Roman has genuine savvy, but Roman is... well, Roman. All three occasionally are competent, and when they are, you can literally see the cautious hope on Logan's face that maybe these are who his kids really are. And then they proceed to step on yet another series of endless fucking rakes.
Logan's not infallible, and his business approach is nihilistic to the point of being anti-human, but he's capable of reading a situation, understanding people's motives, and figuring out the best move he's capable of making. The thing he snaps to Shiv at some point, about how "everything is always in motion," pretty much sums it up: he's incapable of making a guarantee beyond the current state of the board, because as the situation changes, he'll pick any move that seems to work, without any regard to loyalty or past intentions. (See him firing Frank in the pilot, just to get Roman's signature on the trust.) And his "superpower" of being able to lie with utter conviction comes with the fact that, in the moment, he almost always means what he says—with the caveat that he assumes everybody works the way he does, and sees the world the way he does too.
What's fascinating about Kendall's arc in season 3 is that it's genuinely the first time he gets to go mano a mano with his father—the vote of no confidence was a sneak attack and it was foiled partly by bad luck (which Kendall enabled), and his play with Sandy and Stewy was foiled by the incident with the waiter. In season 2, Kendall's past the point of needing to impress his father (in the way that lost him points in the pilot) or fight him; he's utterly subdued, but in a way that makes him shockingly competent. We get a version of Kendall that looks like he might know how to play, and the season 2 finale sets him up at an incredibly strong point and puts Logan in his weakest-possible position.
And then Logan... crushes him. Devastates him at every angle. That despite the fact that every episode quietly puts Logan at a total low point: his kids all consider betraying him, and then the FBI raids ATN, and then he collapses at Josh's, and then he gets his UTI... and with all that, Kendall literally can't score a single point. Because for Kendall, it's all personal—his "narrative" is better, he's doing the right thing, he's cool and hip and beloved—and he literally cannot keep his head clear enough to make the obvious strategic moves that two separate groups of highly-skilled professionals continually advise him on. This is his game to lose, and he loses it—so thoroughly that Tom calls him out to his face, he nearly admits to suicidal thoughts on his birthday, and by his mother's wedding, he's just hollowed-out. Done. Rock bottom.
While season 1 sets up the Sandy/Stewy deal like it'll be a once-and-done hostile takeover of the company, just as season 2 posits the cruise scandal as a company-leveling scandal, the shareholder meeting in season 3 makes it clear that all this, literally all of it, amounts to nothing more than games played over board seats. The takeover bid means Logan has to offer seats that he doesn't want to offer. The cruise scandal means the stock takes a hit, which means shareholders like Josh panic, which means Logan has to give up more of his company. Without the season 1 and 2 finales, Logan can probably buy GoJo flat-out, rather than selling. But even the apocalyptic ending to season 3, where Logan again steamrolls his kids, is yet another move in a series of moves. The kids wind up so rich they can try and buy Pierce; two months go by and Logan misses his kids so much that he'll talk to them at a karaoke bar.
Succession isn't Game of Thrones. The show it's most like, honestly, is The Thick of It (also written by Armstrong!), in which a series of "power players" desperately tread water and never go anywhere, and sell their souls in the process. It's not that the business parts of Succession don't matter—it's that the show's fundamental tension is between Logan, for whom only business matters, and his kids, for whom business is just a synecdoche for how they feel about their father and themselves. From Logan's point of view, he does love his kids, but they don't speak the same language he does, and it's the only one he speaks. And the kids, meanwhile, are trapped in this muddle where sometimes business means love and sometimes love means business, partly because any time any of them does something savvy, Logan responds with genuine approval, and it immediately trips them the fuck up.
What's struck me so far about season 4 is that Logan seems to be genuinely reckoning with a conscience—in both episodes, he tries to have a genuine heart-to-heart, and in both episodes, he literally can't talk about his feelings without making it about business. When he talked to Colin on his birthday, he couldn't talk about the human soul or emotional connection without discussing them like they're marketplaces. Here, he tries repeatedly to talk about "the personal stuff" with his kids, and somehow finds himself going on about the trust and business deals and so on. Because, to Logan, his company is his passion, his lifeblood, the only thing he understands, and he's desperately trying to get his children to see it as that. He doesn't see that the love his children want from him runs deeper than that, which is why they only see the company as a trophy they're entitled to; he sees that entitlement and bitterly hates it, because he knows that he's the only one who cares about Waystar but he doesn't understand why.
In a much lower-stakes version of this show, Logan's not a businessman at all. He's just really into his model train set, and his kids don't love his model trains, and he's hurt that they don't love his trains, because it feels like them not loving him. Only every time they talk to him about what an absent father he's been, he starts talking about figure painting and electric circuitry, and as a result everyone walks away feeling hurt and scorned all over again. But the underlying theme and/or gag of Succession is that the business world is essentially an emotionally abusive relationship: Logan's "business savvy" is indistinguishable from the kind of panicked fight-or-flight responses that traumatized people have, where the slightest fluctuation in circumstance completely dominates your thoughts and feelings and demands your absolute focus. But he sees that as killer instinct, and views himself as a survivor rather than as someone who was horrifically abused as a child and never got over it.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 4:23 AM on April 4, 2023 [30 favorites]
Rewatching Succession to prepare for the final season, one thing that struck me is that Logan fixates, repeatedly, on the word "moves." When somebody does something he genuinely respects, they've made a good move. The handful of people he legitimately finds threatening—Matsson, Sandy, Stewie—are the ones who seemingly understand the game that he's playing, in the sense that they respond to moves he makes with moves of their own.
Conversely, Logan's disappointment with his kids pretty consistently pops up when they refuse to play the game—or when they do something that makes it clear that, while they had a moment of genuine savvy, they don't really understand what they did. And one of the fascinating things about the writing, on rewatch, is that while the kids' perspective is that Logan is a compulsive liar who never intends to give them a thing, from Logan's perspective almost the opposite is true: he gives his kids repeated chances to join him in doing what he's doing, but they consistently misinterpret what he's saying, what he's offering them, and what they ought to do with it.
Kendall, time and again, fucks up by assuming that other people hate his dad as bitterly as he does: whether it's the vote of no confidence in season 1 or his manic episode in season 3, he's just convinced that people see him as the hero vanquishing Logan. Shiv, given a chance, makes it clear that she thinks she's the smartest person in the room, and is thoroughly unable to detect when other people are playing her. Roman has genuine savvy, but Roman is... well, Roman. All three occasionally are competent, and when they are, you can literally see the cautious hope on Logan's face that maybe these are who his kids really are. And then they proceed to step on yet another series of endless fucking rakes.
Logan's not infallible, and his business approach is nihilistic to the point of being anti-human, but he's capable of reading a situation, understanding people's motives, and figuring out the best move he's capable of making. The thing he snaps to Shiv at some point, about how "everything is always in motion," pretty much sums it up: he's incapable of making a guarantee beyond the current state of the board, because as the situation changes, he'll pick any move that seems to work, without any regard to loyalty or past intentions. (See him firing Frank in the pilot, just to get Roman's signature on the trust.) And his "superpower" of being able to lie with utter conviction comes with the fact that, in the moment, he almost always means what he says—with the caveat that he assumes everybody works the way he does, and sees the world the way he does too.
What's fascinating about Kendall's arc in season 3 is that it's genuinely the first time he gets to go mano a mano with his father—the vote of no confidence was a sneak attack and it was foiled partly by bad luck (which Kendall enabled), and his play with Sandy and Stewy was foiled by the incident with the waiter. In season 2, Kendall's past the point of needing to impress his father (in the way that lost him points in the pilot) or fight him; he's utterly subdued, but in a way that makes him shockingly competent. We get a version of Kendall that looks like he might know how to play, and the season 2 finale sets him up at an incredibly strong point and puts Logan in his weakest-possible position.
And then Logan... crushes him. Devastates him at every angle. That despite the fact that every episode quietly puts Logan at a total low point: his kids all consider betraying him, and then the FBI raids ATN, and then he collapses at Josh's, and then he gets his UTI... and with all that, Kendall literally can't score a single point. Because for Kendall, it's all personal—his "narrative" is better, he's doing the right thing, he's cool and hip and beloved—and he literally cannot keep his head clear enough to make the obvious strategic moves that two separate groups of highly-skilled professionals continually advise him on. This is his game to lose, and he loses it—so thoroughly that Tom calls him out to his face, he nearly admits to suicidal thoughts on his birthday, and by his mother's wedding, he's just hollowed-out. Done. Rock bottom.
While season 1 sets up the Sandy/Stewy deal like it'll be a once-and-done hostile takeover of the company, just as season 2 posits the cruise scandal as a company-leveling scandal, the shareholder meeting in season 3 makes it clear that all this, literally all of it, amounts to nothing more than games played over board seats. The takeover bid means Logan has to offer seats that he doesn't want to offer. The cruise scandal means the stock takes a hit, which means shareholders like Josh panic, which means Logan has to give up more of his company. Without the season 1 and 2 finales, Logan can probably buy GoJo flat-out, rather than selling. But even the apocalyptic ending to season 3, where Logan again steamrolls his kids, is yet another move in a series of moves. The kids wind up so rich they can try and buy Pierce; two months go by and Logan misses his kids so much that he'll talk to them at a karaoke bar.
Succession isn't Game of Thrones. The show it's most like, honestly, is The Thick of It (also written by Armstrong!), in which a series of "power players" desperately tread water and never go anywhere, and sell their souls in the process. It's not that the business parts of Succession don't matter—it's that the show's fundamental tension is between Logan, for whom only business matters, and his kids, for whom business is just a synecdoche for how they feel about their father and themselves. From Logan's point of view, he does love his kids, but they don't speak the same language he does, and it's the only one he speaks. And the kids, meanwhile, are trapped in this muddle where sometimes business means love and sometimes love means business, partly because any time any of them does something savvy, Logan responds with genuine approval, and it immediately trips them the fuck up.
What's struck me so far about season 4 is that Logan seems to be genuinely reckoning with a conscience—in both episodes, he tries to have a genuine heart-to-heart, and in both episodes, he literally can't talk about his feelings without making it about business. When he talked to Colin on his birthday, he couldn't talk about the human soul or emotional connection without discussing them like they're marketplaces. Here, he tries repeatedly to talk about "the personal stuff" with his kids, and somehow finds himself going on about the trust and business deals and so on. Because, to Logan, his company is his passion, his lifeblood, the only thing he understands, and he's desperately trying to get his children to see it as that. He doesn't see that the love his children want from him runs deeper than that, which is why they only see the company as a trophy they're entitled to; he sees that entitlement and bitterly hates it, because he knows that he's the only one who cares about Waystar but he doesn't understand why.
In a much lower-stakes version of this show, Logan's not a businessman at all. He's just really into his model train set, and his kids don't love his model trains, and he's hurt that they don't love his trains, because it feels like them not loving him. Only every time they talk to him about what an absent father he's been, he starts talking about figure painting and electric circuitry, and as a result everyone walks away feeling hurt and scorned all over again. But the underlying theme and/or gag of Succession is that the business world is essentially an emotionally abusive relationship: Logan's "business savvy" is indistinguishable from the kind of panicked fight-or-flight responses that traumatized people have, where the slightest fluctuation in circumstance completely dominates your thoughts and feelings and demands your absolute focus. But he sees that as killer instinct, and views himself as a survivor rather than as someone who was horrifically abused as a child and never got over it.
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 4:23 AM on April 4, 2023 [30 favorites]
Vanity Fair spoke with MSNBC's Chris Hayes about how bad Kerry's audition tape really was.
posted by jimw at 11:36 AM on April 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by jimw at 11:36 AM on April 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
Tough week for conservative media billionaires' girlfriends.
posted by Klipspringer at 11:37 AM on April 4, 2023
posted by Klipspringer at 11:37 AM on April 4, 2023
I don't have anything particularly insightful to say about the season so far. But especially with this episode, I will continue to never understand the show canon that Shiv is the youngest child, and not Roman.
Oh, and I had a boss that would loom around the office while we were tapping away at our computers. Horrifying. We weren't making fascist disinfo slurry to spew over the electorate, but there are sociopaths in all kinds of workplaces.
posted by j.r at 12:30 PM on April 4, 2023
Oh, and I had a boss that would loom around the office while we were tapping away at our computers. Horrifying. We weren't making fascist disinfo slurry to spew over the electorate, but there are sociopaths in all kinds of workplaces.
posted by j.r at 12:30 PM on April 4, 2023
It's what's behind the bizarre insistence of bosses to get workers back into the office. What's the point of having peons if you can't see them toiling for you?
Also, I will say the Kerry thing doesn't really make sense. I don't believe she's ever expressed any interest in being a media personality or famous. I would understand her angling for a better corporate job, but her wanting to be a news anchor seems to come out of nowhere.
posted by star gentle uterus at 12:42 PM on April 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
Also, I will say the Kerry thing doesn't really make sense. I don't believe she's ever expressed any interest in being a media personality or famous. I would understand her angling for a better corporate job, but her wanting to be a news anchor seems to come out of nowhere.
posted by star gentle uterus at 12:42 PM on April 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
Did anyone notice how similar Tom's reaction was to Kendall's when Logan was asking him to do his dirty work for him with Kerry - just the super defeated, no-eye contact, almost trademark "yeah, ok, sure" that we would see so often from him in his interactions with his dad - maybe reading too much into it, but felt like it could have been intentional?
posted by windbox at 2:48 PM on April 4, 2023
posted by windbox at 2:48 PM on April 4, 2023
I found the passage the Logan ATN scene was reminding me of -- Ahab addressing the crew:
When the entire ship’s company were assembled, and with curious and not wholly unapprehensive faces, were eyeing him, for he looked not unlike the weather horizon when a storm is coming up [...] Vehemently pausing, he cried:—posted by brendano at 7:07 PM on April 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
“What do ye do when ye see a whale, men?”
“Sing out for him!” was the impulsive rejoinder from a score of clubbed voices.
“Good!” cried Ahab, with a wild approval in his tones; observing the hearty animation into which his unexpected question had so magnetically thrown them. [...]
Then tossing both arms, with measureless imprecations he shouted out: “Aye, aye! and I’ll chase him round Good Hope, and round the Horn, and round the Norway Maelstrom, and round perdition’s flames before I give him up. And this is what ye have shipped for, men! to chase that white whale on both sides of land, and over all sides of earth, till he spouts black blood and rolls fin out. What say ye, men, will ye splice hands on it, now? I think ye do look brave.”
“Aye, aye!” shouted the harpooneers and seamen, running closer to the excited old man: “A sharp eye for the white whale; a sharp lance for Moby Dick!”
“God bless ye,” he seemed to half sob and half shout. “God bless ye, men. [...]"
The Logan addressing ATN scene was apparently a recreation of Murdoch at the WSJ, right down to standing on a stage made of packs of printer paper. There's a photo of that here, plus an eyewitness account.
posted by simonw at 9:54 PM on April 4, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by simonw at 9:54 PM on April 4, 2023 [8 favorites]
I want to give some love to Tom’s “ I could give you a kiss from here.” line. WTF Tom?
I wonder if that was an improvised line they decided to keep
posted by chill at 2:01 AM on April 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
I wonder if that was an improvised line they decided to keep
posted by chill at 2:01 AM on April 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
Last episode it was Tom who seemed genuinely sympathetic; this time it's Connor. Poor man. His fiancé left him at the rehearsal dinner. He's an outsider in the family drama and yet somehow the host to it. All he wants to do is drink his sorrows and sing Leonard Cohen at karaoke. His statement "You’re needy love sponges and I’m a plant that grows on rocks and lives off insects that die inside of me" was a bit over the top (fun writing!) but also sincerely felt and a pretty good read on what's going on with the other kids. I liked in the end he got home and Willa was there for him, deep looks of understanding and a gentle cuddle of reassurance.
That all puts Logan's turn at playing sincere in a harsh light. His apology in the karaoke room; was it genuinely him feeling bad? Him just saying something true he'd rather not so the kids will do what he wants? Him cynically fabricating an apology so they kids do what he wants? All three? It sure seemed all about business with him.
It's like Jaws if everyone in Jaws worked for Jaws.
posted by Nelson at 7:23 AM on April 5, 2023
That all puts Logan's turn at playing sincere in a harsh light. His apology in the karaoke room; was it genuinely him feeling bad? Him just saying something true he'd rather not so the kids will do what he wants? Him cynically fabricating an apology so they kids do what he wants? All three? It sure seemed all about business with him.
It's like Jaws if everyone in Jaws worked for Jaws.
posted by Nelson at 7:23 AM on April 5, 2023
Love the way Greg's "I did the job" line curdled from "our little boy is growing up, yay Greg!" to "thus begins his damnation in earnest."
posted by whuppy at 7:57 AM on April 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by whuppy at 7:57 AM on April 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
My read was that his rather fragile ego found the call from Mattson to be demeaning - the fact that Mattson feels he needs to tell Kendall what to do feels infantilizing. Kendall's life for much of this series has been various people (as well as events) telling him he lacks his father's instincts, and that he is bad at making the right decision. He wants to make the "right" decision because it's his decision, not because someone (like Mattson) told him to do it - in a sense, Mattson also indirectly told Kendall that he doesn't view him "a serious person" on that phone call, and it stung. I think Kendall has managed to trick himself into thinking squeezing Mattson for more will work, even if part of him lacks confidence - but he's happy to absorb whatever misplaced confidence Shiv has.
This was my read, too. Kendall desperately wants to be the kind of savvy dealmaker that Logan is, and we have heard throughout this series that it's some intangible gut or instinct rather than textbook MBA stuff. So he takes that call from Mattson and believes in his business-genius guts that it's a bluff and so he wants to prove that out. (And if this show has taught us anything, it's likely that Logan read it correctly and it's gonna blow up in the kids' faces.)
I loved the karaoke scene where Logan is doing his best to apologize. It was the paradox of in-your-face nuance that Succession does best. Some part of it really was sincere because he loves his kids and wishes they were at his party and wishes it could be back to this dynamic where he's the king and they are his happy heirs in waiting. But a bigger part was a sales pitch to get them to back off their alliance with Stewy and Sandy because he knows that they really do have some juice if they stay there. And then watching each of the kids react in their own way to that approach - from Kendall's full barrage to Connor's quiet victimhood - was fascinating.
I am going to miss this show but I am happy that they get to lay it all out and go out with a bang.
posted by AgentRocket at 10:00 AM on April 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
This was my read, too. Kendall desperately wants to be the kind of savvy dealmaker that Logan is, and we have heard throughout this series that it's some intangible gut or instinct rather than textbook MBA stuff. So he takes that call from Mattson and believes in his business-genius guts that it's a bluff and so he wants to prove that out. (And if this show has taught us anything, it's likely that Logan read it correctly and it's gonna blow up in the kids' faces.)
I loved the karaoke scene where Logan is doing his best to apologize. It was the paradox of in-your-face nuance that Succession does best. Some part of it really was sincere because he loves his kids and wishes they were at his party and wishes it could be back to this dynamic where he's the king and they are his happy heirs in waiting. But a bigger part was a sales pitch to get them to back off their alliance with Stewy and Sandy because he knows that they really do have some juice if they stay there. And then watching each of the kids react in their own way to that approach - from Kendall's full barrage to Connor's quiet victimhood - was fascinating.
I am going to miss this show but I am happy that they get to lay it all out and go out with a bang.
posted by AgentRocket at 10:00 AM on April 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
It's also striking how relatively small the amount they want to squeeze Gojo for is: an extra $100 million is just another 2% (IIRC the current price was $5b). I can understand the kids not caring because they really just want to hurt Logan, but Sandi and Stewy must see how crazy that is. It makes me think maybe S&S actually just want to torpedo the deal for their own reasons, and know they can manipulate the kids into doing it this way.
posted by star gentle uterus at 5:40 PM on April 5, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by star gentle uterus at 5:40 PM on April 5, 2023 [5 favorites]
If you're looking for a show about the brilliant machinations of the great rich and powerful, this ain't it.
Yeah, that's kind of hard to miss; the show's been beating us over the head with the stupidity, venality, etc of the rich - esp the kids - for years now. This week was like the, what? 4th? 5th? 6th? time that Logan has told us the kids aren't serious people?
I disagree that the show needs so much melodrama to make its point about the stupidity of the kids; the Roman/Gerri sex plot felt so wrong and unnecessary (and insulting to Gerri's character, which had been really interesting before that). And the UTI infection that conveniently wiped out Logan's brain on the day of a hugely important board meeting - damn, that episode was so clunky and ham-handed. These are not just my own thoughts, if that matters. Anyway, Willow's hesitance about marriage has been so clear for so long that a DRAMATIC FLOUNCE at the rehearsal dinner just seemed silly to me. The show is peppered with overwrought writing decisions like that, and it remains a big flaw.
My point about the kids not being worthy adversaries to Logan is pretty simple, and doesn't mean I "fundamentally" don't get the show. My point is that it's boring to watch them fail in the same ways over and over again. Kendall's gonna fuck up and spiral down, down, down - again, Roman's gonna believe Daddy's promises and get screwed - again, Shiv's gonna think she's the smartest person in the room and get sidelined - again....it's repetitive and less interesting with each iteration. Luckily the show does a good job with dialogue; this episode, like I said, was great, and a lot of fun to watch. But I do wish it gave us more of a conflict worthy of Logan's viciousness, even if we know the kids will always lose because they're dumbshits or something.
posted by mediareport at 7:17 PM on April 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
Yeah, that's kind of hard to miss; the show's been beating us over the head with the stupidity, venality, etc of the rich - esp the kids - for years now. This week was like the, what? 4th? 5th? 6th? time that Logan has told us the kids aren't serious people?
I disagree that the show needs so much melodrama to make its point about the stupidity of the kids; the Roman/Gerri sex plot felt so wrong and unnecessary (and insulting to Gerri's character, which had been really interesting before that). And the UTI infection that conveniently wiped out Logan's brain on the day of a hugely important board meeting - damn, that episode was so clunky and ham-handed. These are not just my own thoughts, if that matters. Anyway, Willow's hesitance about marriage has been so clear for so long that a DRAMATIC FLOUNCE at the rehearsal dinner just seemed silly to me. The show is peppered with overwrought writing decisions like that, and it remains a big flaw.
My point about the kids not being worthy adversaries to Logan is pretty simple, and doesn't mean I "fundamentally" don't get the show. My point is that it's boring to watch them fail in the same ways over and over again. Kendall's gonna fuck up and spiral down, down, down - again, Roman's gonna believe Daddy's promises and get screwed - again, Shiv's gonna think she's the smartest person in the room and get sidelined - again....it's repetitive and less interesting with each iteration. Luckily the show does a good job with dialogue; this episode, like I said, was great, and a lot of fun to watch. But I do wish it gave us more of a conflict worthy of Logan's viciousness, even if we know the kids will always lose because they're dumbshits or something.
posted by mediareport at 7:17 PM on April 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
he literally arranges Kendall to get away with murder
Not a lawyer but I don't think it's murder. Manslaughter, maybe? And then the cover-up. But not murder. Kendall driving while coming down off a coke buzz and fiending for more is a big strike against him, but the waiter was so high on K that he fell down when switching seats in the car so Kendall could drive, and then grabbed the steering wheel to avoid the deer in the road Kendall almost certainly would have hit because he was fiddling with the unfamiliar stick shift.
A horrible accident, sure, with Kendall bearing a lot of responsibility, but not murder.
posted by mediareport at 7:21 PM on April 5, 2023
Not a lawyer but I don't think it's murder. Manslaughter, maybe? And then the cover-up. But not murder. Kendall driving while coming down off a coke buzz and fiending for more is a big strike against him, but the waiter was so high on K that he fell down when switching seats in the car so Kendall could drive, and then grabbed the steering wheel to avoid the deer in the road Kendall almost certainly would have hit because he was fiddling with the unfamiliar stick shift.
A horrible accident, sure, with Kendall bearing a lot of responsibility, but not murder.
posted by mediareport at 7:21 PM on April 5, 2023
(I'm guessing that will come back to send Kendall into another downward spiral this season.)
posted by mediareport at 7:23 PM on April 5, 2023
posted by mediareport at 7:23 PM on April 5, 2023
[Re Connor] All he wants to do is drink his sorrows and sing Leonard Cohen at karaoke. His statement "You’re needy love sponges and I’m a plant that grows on rocks and lives off insects that die inside of me" was a bit over the top (fun writing!) but also sincerely felt and a pretty good read on what's going on with the other kids.
I love how the show knows when to keep some jokes implicit, and we see that in Connor's song choices: to be truly teeth grinding - a karaoke song should be both very challenging to sing and LONG - aside from being canonically miserable "Famous Blue Raincoat" is over 5 minutes. And we can take it that Connor has already worked his way through "Desperado" as an hors d'oeuvre. The particular choice of songs reminds me of the Better Call Saul karaoke scene where Ernesto takes on "Total Eclipse of the Heart".
posted by rongorongo at 11:45 PM on April 5, 2023
I love how the show knows when to keep some jokes implicit, and we see that in Connor's song choices: to be truly teeth grinding - a karaoke song should be both very challenging to sing and LONG - aside from being canonically miserable "Famous Blue Raincoat" is over 5 minutes. And we can take it that Connor has already worked his way through "Desperado" as an hors d'oeuvre. The particular choice of songs reminds me of the Better Call Saul karaoke scene where Ernesto takes on "Total Eclipse of the Heart".
posted by rongorongo at 11:45 PM on April 5, 2023
I don't think Shiv thinks she is going to get more money. She goes directly from hearing that she's been blocked from divorce lawyers to calling Sandy. This is Revenge (miss that first season!).
posted by armacy at 6:32 PM on April 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by armacy at 6:32 PM on April 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
A theory I heard re: why Shiv wants to vote no on Gojo was that if she can get a divorce before buying PGM, Tom would not be entitled to any of her shares.
Kendall isn’t a murderer. At worst, he’s an irresponsible-r.
posted by kat518 at 9:56 PM on April 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Kendall isn’t a murderer. At worst, he’s an irresponsible-r.
posted by kat518 at 9:56 PM on April 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
A theory I heard re: why Shiv wants to vote no on Gojo was that if she can get a divorce before buying PGM, Tom would not be entitled to any of her shares
Ooh, that's interesting, thanks. Shiv does try her best to protect herself, sometimes.
posted by mediareport at 3:35 AM on April 7, 2023
Ooh, that's interesting, thanks. Shiv does try her best to protect herself, sometimes.
posted by mediareport at 3:35 AM on April 7, 2023
Kendall isn’t a murderer.
At least not until he shoots up a 7-Eleven.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 4:30 AM on April 7, 2023
At least not until he shoots up a 7-Eleven.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 4:30 AM on April 7, 2023
The Kendall thing is something Logan can't use without significantly harming himself and Marcia, Marcia's son, and Logan's security guy because they all knew about and participated in the cover-up.
Kendall is actually in a far better place in that situation than Logan: "I was scared and heavily intoxicated and made a bad decision to flee the scene in the heat of the moment. I later regretted what I had done and wanted to turn myself in, but my father and his people pressured me into keeping quiet to protect the company/family image and used their vast resources to cover up the incident."
Doesn't matter if that's exactly true, it's a good story to stick to if he ever had to publicly address the incident.
posted by star gentle uterus at 12:50 PM on April 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
Kendall is actually in a far better place in that situation than Logan: "I was scared and heavily intoxicated and made a bad decision to flee the scene in the heat of the moment. I later regretted what I had done and wanted to turn myself in, but my father and his people pressured me into keeping quiet to protect the company/family image and used their vast resources to cover up the incident."
Doesn't matter if that's exactly true, it's a good story to stick to if he ever had to publicly address the incident.
posted by star gentle uterus at 12:50 PM on April 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
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The comedy - so many laugh out loud moments.
The drama - like the standoff in Reservoir Dogs with everyone screwing everyone else, the truth almost never spoken, except perhaps Kendal’s brief highlights reel of Logan’s failings as a father.
Going to have to watch it again. So much to digest.
posted by chill at 5:52 AM on April 3, 2023 [1 favorite]