Ted Lasso: La Locker Room Aux Folles
May 9, 2023 8:57 PM - Season 3, Episode 9 - Subscribe
Isaac is feeling quiet and weird towards Colin, which turns into an explosion in the stands. Roy is forced to handle the press conference about it. It's adorable. Things get a little weird for Nate when Rupert wants to party.
Folks, this is one of my favorite episodes of the season. For those concerned about how handling Colin coming out of the closet was going to go, I (admittedly, not a gay male footballer so what do I know) found it very touching and well handled and awesome. Loved it.
The recap: Isaac is giving Colin the cold shoulder of late, but then literally goes into the stands and gets into a fight with a fan when someone yells the f-word. Not the fuck-word, the other f-word. (Jamie, dawning upon him: "Fuuuuuuck.") Jan points out that statistically more than one guy in the room should be gay here, everyone agrees they'll support Isaac (who's out with Roy, checking on him during this group conversation), then Colin admits (off-camera for some reason?!) that it's him. Everyone takes it extremely well, and Ted turns being gay into a metaphor about being a Denver Broncos fan who broke a toilet twice, something he realizes in retrospect is off on several levels ("what the fuck is a Denver Bronco?").
Rebecca has tapped Roy to do press conferences when Ted is occupied. Why not Beard? Because he turns a presser into arguments over classic rock instead. Roy is sent in to handle the post-fight drama and handles it BEAUTIFULLY by telling the story of how he super pissed off a teammate and got beaten up for it, and how sometimes we don't know what's going on with people and it's not our damn business.
Isaac comes over to Colin's afterwards and asks what was wrong about Isaac that Colin didn't tell him? Colin says he didn't tell anyone, was 99% sure Isaac would be ok but was afraid of the 1%, and also Isaac can't keep a secret for shit. They finish up by playing a game and talking sex stuff.
In other news, Jack has bugged off to Argentina for months, and Rupert asks Nate for a "boy's night out," i.e. with a lot of women. Nate feels awkward at this and bails, running back to Jade's arms. She also claims her full name is "Jaded," which would uh, explain a lot.
Oh yeah, and Rebecca gives a brilliant speech to Roy about his current attitude and how he should get over it.
* For those complaining about a lack of biscuits...it comes up.
* Ted should not write country music. Don't add the word "fart" into your song, dude.
* Jade meets Rupert and finds him...."nice...like."
* Rebecca: "I am sick of Roy being Roy."
* Roy after Rebecca yells at him to get his hairy arse in here: "Every single one of you knows my arse isn't hairy. Yet none of you spoke up. And I will never forgive you."
*Rebecca gives Roy the best speech ever. "Get out of your own way, man!"
* "Roy Kent as the voice of reason, what a world."
I love how Ted turns a story of a guy doing $9k damage to a toilet after eating seven layer dip while alone...twice....into a related story. And yet, "Coach, did you just compare being gay to being a Denver Broncos fan?" followed by "Who the fuck are the Denver Broncos?"
Folks, this is one of my favorite episodes of the season. For those concerned about how handling Colin coming out of the closet was going to go, I (admittedly, not a gay male footballer so what do I know) found it very touching and well handled and awesome. Loved it.
The recap: Isaac is giving Colin the cold shoulder of late, but then literally goes into the stands and gets into a fight with a fan when someone yells the f-word. Not the fuck-word, the other f-word. (Jamie, dawning upon him: "Fuuuuuuck.") Jan points out that statistically more than one guy in the room should be gay here, everyone agrees they'll support Isaac (who's out with Roy, checking on him during this group conversation), then Colin admits (off-camera for some reason?!) that it's him. Everyone takes it extremely well, and Ted turns being gay into a metaphor about being a Denver Broncos fan who broke a toilet twice, something he realizes in retrospect is off on several levels ("what the fuck is a Denver Bronco?").
Rebecca has tapped Roy to do press conferences when Ted is occupied. Why not Beard? Because he turns a presser into arguments over classic rock instead. Roy is sent in to handle the post-fight drama and handles it BEAUTIFULLY by telling the story of how he super pissed off a teammate and got beaten up for it, and how sometimes we don't know what's going on with people and it's not our damn business.
Isaac comes over to Colin's afterwards and asks what was wrong about Isaac that Colin didn't tell him? Colin says he didn't tell anyone, was 99% sure Isaac would be ok but was afraid of the 1%, and also Isaac can't keep a secret for shit. They finish up by playing a game and talking sex stuff.
In other news, Jack has bugged off to Argentina for months, and Rupert asks Nate for a "boy's night out," i.e. with a lot of women. Nate feels awkward at this and bails, running back to Jade's arms. She also claims her full name is "Jaded," which would uh, explain a lot.
Oh yeah, and Rebecca gives a brilliant speech to Roy about his current attitude and how he should get over it.
* For those complaining about a lack of biscuits...it comes up.
* Ted should not write country music. Don't add the word "fart" into your song, dude.
* Jade meets Rupert and finds him...."nice...like."
* Rebecca: "I am sick of Roy being Roy."
* Roy after Rebecca yells at him to get his hairy arse in here: "Every single one of you knows my arse isn't hairy. Yet none of you spoke up. And I will never forgive you."
*Rebecca gives Roy the best speech ever. "Get out of your own way, man!"
* "Roy Kent as the voice of reason, what a world."
I love how Ted turns a story of a guy doing $9k damage to a toilet after eating seven layer dip while alone...twice....into a related story. And yet, "Coach, did you just compare being gay to being a Denver Broncos fan?" followed by "Who the fuck are the Denver Broncos?"
So here we are at episode nine of the "redemption arc" that Nate fans assured us was going to be similar to Jamie Tartt's.
Jamie's arc was filled with consequences for his actions--he was a shit boyfriend, so Keeley broke up with him. He made an unprofessional move in quitting Man City for Lust Conquers all, so no Premier level team, or any team in Europe wanted him, and he had to beg his way onto a Championship level team. He was a terrible teammate, so when he tried to apologize, the locker room exploded into an airing of grievances that left him so shaken that he needed to talk to Dr. Sharon to find a way to get beyond it.
And while Jamie made missteps along the way, he also took steps to acknowledge that he'd been a lousy teammate, and to acknowledge the help that he received (from Keeley in particular), and to try to be a better teammate (choosing to stand with the Nigerian players in the Dubai protest).
Here's what Jamie's arc was not: a string of uninterrupted professional successes/praise + getting a hot girlfriend with no on-screen personality. And that's all we've gotten from Nate's story this far in the season.
One might think that working for Rupert Mannion would be deeply unpleasant and stressful, even for high performers. High potential for struggles in a well-done redemption arc. And yet Nate has plenty of time and energy to moon around a Greek restaurant in Tooting and create art projects, and actually try to recreate the Diamond Dogs (and believe that Rupert would participate). He might as well be working for Man City for all of the drama that his decision to work for Rupert has generated.
This week, we're sure, it will be different, because Rupert is in it. And it's just the tamest thing ever. Months into his tenure at West Ham, Nate is shocked, SHOCKED, that Rupert is tomcatting around and expects the people he hangs out with to do the same. Rupert's exploits were well-documented in the tabloids, yet "Good Nate" is shocked by something that a 9 year old could have predicted.
His actions are also like the weakest possible ones he could take while still supposedly being "Good Nate". He still is too chickenshit to leave without making an excuse. He's too chickenshit to tell his girlfriend that his boss is a serial cheater who invited Nate on a double date and that's why he left.
We've also seen from the "Love Hounds" scene, that Nate has not become a better person just because he's adopting the uncertain/awkward/bumbling persona. He's still a fundamentally selfish person who called the meeting because he expected to receive support, but was entirely uninterested, to the point of rudeness, in his coworker's struggles in caring for his aging parents.
And FFS, during Rupert's slimy conversation with Jade, he STILL asked Jade more questions about herself than we have seen Nate do in this entire godawful storyline. And so now we know the ethnicity and namesake of a character who still remains a cipher.
Does Nate know that he treated Will badly? Does he care? We have no idea. Does he know that Will and Keeley and Ted were all trying to help him last season when he treated them poorly? Does he care? We have no idea. Will there ever be a scene where he acknowledges what a colossal prick he was last year? Will he acknowledge that people were trying to help him? Will he actually DO SOMETHING to be a better person? Given the other storylines that have to be wrapped up in just three episodes, it's highly doubtful.
The writers seem to adore Nate so much that they refused to have him suffer any negative consequences for his actions. I hope they will not end this by handing over the reins of AFC Richmond to Nate, but the writing for him is so dire so far I can't tell.
posted by creepygirl at 10:03 PM on May 9, 2023 [22 favorites]
Jamie's arc was filled with consequences for his actions--he was a shit boyfriend, so Keeley broke up with him. He made an unprofessional move in quitting Man City for Lust Conquers all, so no Premier level team, or any team in Europe wanted him, and he had to beg his way onto a Championship level team. He was a terrible teammate, so when he tried to apologize, the locker room exploded into an airing of grievances that left him so shaken that he needed to talk to Dr. Sharon to find a way to get beyond it.
And while Jamie made missteps along the way, he also took steps to acknowledge that he'd been a lousy teammate, and to acknowledge the help that he received (from Keeley in particular), and to try to be a better teammate (choosing to stand with the Nigerian players in the Dubai protest).
Here's what Jamie's arc was not: a string of uninterrupted professional successes/praise + getting a hot girlfriend with no on-screen personality. And that's all we've gotten from Nate's story this far in the season.
One might think that working for Rupert Mannion would be deeply unpleasant and stressful, even for high performers. High potential for struggles in a well-done redemption arc. And yet Nate has plenty of time and energy to moon around a Greek restaurant in Tooting and create art projects, and actually try to recreate the Diamond Dogs (and believe that Rupert would participate). He might as well be working for Man City for all of the drama that his decision to work for Rupert has generated.
This week, we're sure, it will be different, because Rupert is in it. And it's just the tamest thing ever. Months into his tenure at West Ham, Nate is shocked, SHOCKED, that Rupert is tomcatting around and expects the people he hangs out with to do the same. Rupert's exploits were well-documented in the tabloids, yet "Good Nate" is shocked by something that a 9 year old could have predicted.
His actions are also like the weakest possible ones he could take while still supposedly being "Good Nate". He still is too chickenshit to leave without making an excuse. He's too chickenshit to tell his girlfriend that his boss is a serial cheater who invited Nate on a double date and that's why he left.
We've also seen from the "Love Hounds" scene, that Nate has not become a better person just because he's adopting the uncertain/awkward/bumbling persona. He's still a fundamentally selfish person who called the meeting because he expected to receive support, but was entirely uninterested, to the point of rudeness, in his coworker's struggles in caring for his aging parents.
And FFS, during Rupert's slimy conversation with Jade, he STILL asked Jade more questions about herself than we have seen Nate do in this entire godawful storyline. And so now we know the ethnicity and namesake of a character who still remains a cipher.
Does Nate know that he treated Will badly? Does he care? We have no idea. Does he know that Will and Keeley and Ted were all trying to help him last season when he treated them poorly? Does he care? We have no idea. Will there ever be a scene where he acknowledges what a colossal prick he was last year? Will he acknowledge that people were trying to help him? Will he actually DO SOMETHING to be a better person? Given the other storylines that have to be wrapped up in just three episodes, it's highly doubtful.
The writers seem to adore Nate so much that they refused to have him suffer any negative consequences for his actions. I hope they will not end this by handing over the reins of AFC Richmond to Nate, but the writing for him is so dire so far I can't tell.
posted by creepygirl at 10:03 PM on May 9, 2023 [22 favorites]
I feel some of the things that are frustrating the rest of you, but I feel them as mere annoyances rather than major gripes.
On one hand, I do wish Jade had a personality; but on the other hand, I prefer to assume that she does have a personality, but the show hasn't really shown it to us because it's not what the show is about and jesus do they not have time to drag another character into the main circle. I'm OK with her existing on the periphery. If they wanted to give her a personality, they could've done it instead of the several episodes' worth of scenes involving Jack that I didn't give a shit about. That ship has sailed now.
To the extent that stuff has gone wrong this season, I think it's because of ambition. So I don't mind when they scale it down and just try to make me laugh. Beard's whole argument in the press room is something I sorely needed. And, yeah, I hope they pull a George Lucas when all is said and done and find all the episodes where Ted launches into a ten-minute-long folksy story… and replace them with subtler beats that don't feel like Rose Nylund telling stories about St. Olaf.
I had no problem with the story Roy told in the press conference. Clearly it's something he's felt guilty about for ages. Didn't feel forced at all to me.
By and large, I really don't like that I don't quite understand what's happening in Nate's head, and all the crimes that have been committed by the writers in this story arc still do bug me, but this episode was fine to me, Nate-wise. All he wants to do is fit in, to play at masculinity, and here he is being “shown the ropes” by a powerful guy who exudes confidence and whom Nate wants to please… and he knows right away it's just off. Sure, he'd been in that scenario before, but before he was a single dude. I think he was honestly surprised and had to think on his feet, so I won't hold it against him that he made up an excuse instead of just telling the truth.
I'd say that he's just trusting his instincts — weighing the world in which he's insecure against the world in which he's comfortable and feels safe — but there's not been much indication yet that he feels comfortable with Jade. I wish they could let him stop doing neurotic shit for a few minutes and just let him exist.
A straight red card for Isaac is a three-match ban, or at least it would be in real life — though, if this were real life, Isaac would be suspended for the rest of the goddamn season.
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:34 PM on May 9, 2023 [8 favorites]
On one hand, I do wish Jade had a personality; but on the other hand, I prefer to assume that she does have a personality, but the show hasn't really shown it to us because it's not what the show is about and jesus do they not have time to drag another character into the main circle. I'm OK with her existing on the periphery. If they wanted to give her a personality, they could've done it instead of the several episodes' worth of scenes involving Jack that I didn't give a shit about. That ship has sailed now.
To the extent that stuff has gone wrong this season, I think it's because of ambition. So I don't mind when they scale it down and just try to make me laugh. Beard's whole argument in the press room is something I sorely needed. And, yeah, I hope they pull a George Lucas when all is said and done and find all the episodes where Ted launches into a ten-minute-long folksy story… and replace them with subtler beats that don't feel like Rose Nylund telling stories about St. Olaf.
I had no problem with the story Roy told in the press conference. Clearly it's something he's felt guilty about for ages. Didn't feel forced at all to me.
By and large, I really don't like that I don't quite understand what's happening in Nate's head, and all the crimes that have been committed by the writers in this story arc still do bug me, but this episode was fine to me, Nate-wise. All he wants to do is fit in, to play at masculinity, and here he is being “shown the ropes” by a powerful guy who exudes confidence and whom Nate wants to please… and he knows right away it's just off. Sure, he'd been in that scenario before, but before he was a single dude. I think he was honestly surprised and had to think on his feet, so I won't hold it against him that he made up an excuse instead of just telling the truth.
I'd say that he's just trusting his instincts — weighing the world in which he's insecure against the world in which he's comfortable and feels safe — but there's not been much indication yet that he feels comfortable with Jade. I wish they could let him stop doing neurotic shit for a few minutes and just let him exist.
A straight red card for Isaac is a three-match ban, or at least it would be in real life — though, if this were real life, Isaac would be suspended for the rest of the goddamn season.
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:34 PM on May 9, 2023 [8 favorites]
I think he was honestly surprised and had to think on his feet, so I won't hold it against him that he made up an excuse instead of just telling the truth.
It's not like he's been braver and more honest when he's had time to think and draft his response. In a previous episode, when Rupert said he was going to ban Ted from the stadium, Nate drafted a text saying "It's ok, I thought it was funny" which could absolutely read as a snide remark, not remotely close to the positive feelings Nate's smile supposed indicated. And even that was not bootlicking enough in Nate's view, so he did not send the "I thought it was funny" and texted a more servile text thanking Rupert for the ban.
posted by creepygirl at 10:50 PM on May 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
It's not like he's been braver and more honest when he's had time to think and draft his response. In a previous episode, when Rupert said he was going to ban Ted from the stadium, Nate drafted a text saying "It's ok, I thought it was funny" which could absolutely read as a snide remark, not remotely close to the positive feelings Nate's smile supposed indicated. And even that was not bootlicking enough in Nate's view, so he did not send the "I thought it was funny" and texted a more servile text thanking Rupert for the ban.
posted by creepygirl at 10:50 PM on May 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
creepygirl: "a more servile text thanking Rupert for the ban."
I didn't read it as servile; more “Good — see that it doesn't,” like you'd say to a member of your staff.
What's fucked up about that relationship is that Rupert is treating Nate like a peer because Nate is a soccer savant. In any other universe, Rupert wouldn't glance at Nate even if they were the only two people in the room. So you get this weird dynamic where the guy signing your checks is also doting on you and making sure you're treated like the hot shit you desperately want to be.
Nate doesn't want to be himself to Rupert because he understands that Rupert doesn't respect that guy — he wants the guy who spits at the mirror. So he's just thinking “what would Hot Shit guy say?” the whole time because he doesn't want Rupert to look at him the way he did at the end of this episode — the withering “oh, I'm sorry, I thought you were a man” sort of sneer.
This isn't me arguing that Rupert doesn't deserve to be told off; I just doubt it'd be very cathartic. It'd scarcely resonate any more with its target than if Nate decided to tell off a floor lamp or a coat rack. Nate needs to grow the sort of self-confidence that would let him deal with Rupert the way Ted did — tactfully, diplomatically, but metaphorically nudging Rupert into a room in his brain labelled “people whose opinions matter fuck-all to me.”
posted by savetheclocktower at 11:25 PM on May 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
I didn't read it as servile; more “Good — see that it doesn't,” like you'd say to a member of your staff.
What's fucked up about that relationship is that Rupert is treating Nate like a peer because Nate is a soccer savant. In any other universe, Rupert wouldn't glance at Nate even if they were the only two people in the room. So you get this weird dynamic where the guy signing your checks is also doting on you and making sure you're treated like the hot shit you desperately want to be.
Nate doesn't want to be himself to Rupert because he understands that Rupert doesn't respect that guy — he wants the guy who spits at the mirror. So he's just thinking “what would Hot Shit guy say?” the whole time because he doesn't want Rupert to look at him the way he did at the end of this episode — the withering “oh, I'm sorry, I thought you were a man” sort of sneer.
This isn't me arguing that Rupert doesn't deserve to be told off; I just doubt it'd be very cathartic. It'd scarcely resonate any more with its target than if Nate decided to tell off a floor lamp or a coat rack. Nate needs to grow the sort of self-confidence that would let him deal with Rupert the way Ted did — tactfully, diplomatically, but metaphorically nudging Rupert into a room in his brain labelled “people whose opinions matter fuck-all to me.”
posted by savetheclocktower at 11:25 PM on May 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
I understand why Nate doesn't want to be himself to Rupert.
I just think it's dramatically uninteresting for the show to focus so much on Nate's self-image and passivity in service of the approval of a canonically obviously well-known awful person. When it is completely obvious that Nate has much more important work to do on himself. It's like he stabbed himself and a bunch of other people last season and this season is all about him focusing on his manicure. Sure, in a general way, self-care is important. And the manicure storyline could be interesting if it was following a season focused on Nate's hangnails and cracked cuticles. But in context, it's weird and off-putting.
posted by creepygirl at 11:43 PM on May 9, 2023 [7 favorites]
I just think it's dramatically uninteresting for the show to focus so much on Nate's self-image and passivity in service of the approval of a canonically obviously well-known awful person. When it is completely obvious that Nate has much more important work to do on himself. It's like he stabbed himself and a bunch of other people last season and this season is all about him focusing on his manicure. Sure, in a general way, self-care is important. And the manicure storyline could be interesting if it was following a season focused on Nate's hangnails and cracked cuticles. But in context, it's weird and off-putting.
posted by creepygirl at 11:43 PM on May 9, 2023 [7 favorites]
I've actually started fast forwarding the show whenever Nate comes up on screen - just too cringe most of the time
posted by some loser at 4:07 AM on May 10, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by some loser at 4:07 AM on May 10, 2023 [10 favorites]
THE best part of the episode for me? The completely non-verbal conversation between Sam and Jamie about who gets the Captain armband. Simply beautiful and fun and hilarious.
posted by Silvery Fish at 4:46 AM on May 10, 2023 [35 favorites]
posted by Silvery Fish at 4:46 AM on May 10, 2023 [35 favorites]
Yay.
Finally Jade was given something to do other than be a Sexy Lamp
posted by Faintdreams at 6:19 AM on May 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
Finally Jade was given something to do other than be a Sexy Lamp
posted by Faintdreams at 6:19 AM on May 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
Now this was a Ted Lasso episode that felt like a Ted Lasso episode. And why? Because all of our heroes were together, supporting each other through a single story!
Yes, there was a lot of teaching moments and speechifying, but have you watched this show before? Those are the best parts. I loved watching Rebecca rip into Roy for being (a) insubordinate and (b) cowardly, and frankly loved watching her do anything other than being supportive or sad. I loved that the team was ready to support Isaac, and then shifted on a dime to support Colin -- and if that seemed unrealistic, it's only because the entire team has been working on being better people for the last three years. I loved the resolution of the Colin/Isaac storyline - the fact that Isaac was sad that Colin would keep such a large part of his life secret from him. (The "who on the team is the fittest" conversation was hilarious.)
I loved Ted shifting the response from "we don't care" to "we do care" with that ridiculous story about the Denver Broncos fan. I loved the fact that the central message of the episode was "someone lashing out may be angry about something totally different, because you have no idea what is going on in someone's life", and the fact that Roy got to deliver that message beautifully during the press conference represented personal growth for him (because he's been avoiding what he's really upset about as well).
The only two low spots for me were the bit with Keeley (Jack is toxic - stop moping!) and the Nate storyline. He's still a jerk who has done nothing to earn redemption. Not going whoring with Rupert is not a sign of personal growth. I'm hoping this is all building towards some massive shift for Nate, but I remain skeptical.
PS - Beard shouting at the press about classic rock guitarists was amazing.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 6:48 AM on May 10, 2023 [16 favorites]
Yes, there was a lot of teaching moments and speechifying, but have you watched this show before? Those are the best parts. I loved watching Rebecca rip into Roy for being (a) insubordinate and (b) cowardly, and frankly loved watching her do anything other than being supportive or sad. I loved that the team was ready to support Isaac, and then shifted on a dime to support Colin -- and if that seemed unrealistic, it's only because the entire team has been working on being better people for the last three years. I loved the resolution of the Colin/Isaac storyline - the fact that Isaac was sad that Colin would keep such a large part of his life secret from him. (The "who on the team is the fittest" conversation was hilarious.)
I loved Ted shifting the response from "we don't care" to "we do care" with that ridiculous story about the Denver Broncos fan. I loved the fact that the central message of the episode was "someone lashing out may be angry about something totally different, because you have no idea what is going on in someone's life", and the fact that Roy got to deliver that message beautifully during the press conference represented personal growth for him (because he's been avoiding what he's really upset about as well).
The only two low spots for me were the bit with Keeley (Jack is toxic - stop moping!) and the Nate storyline. He's still a jerk who has done nothing to earn redemption. Not going whoring with Rupert is not a sign of personal growth. I'm hoping this is all building towards some massive shift for Nate, but I remain skeptical.
PS - Beard shouting at the press about classic rock guitarists was amazing.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 6:48 AM on May 10, 2023 [16 favorites]
I agree with everything creepygirl says about Nate, but Jade seeing through Rupert and saying "he seems wealthy" does make up for it a little bit. And her name being Jaded, "but who cares". Rupert of course just wants Nate to be as shitty as he is, preferably with some blackmail material for good measure.
Rebecca is hoping Roy and Keeley get back together. I'm really surprised that Keeley is moping over Jack. She doesn't like relationship conflict, but I would have thought her healthy self-esteem would kick in after being shamed for her sexuality. Good riddance to Jack.
Why was Colin's coming out off-screen? Did he say anything or did he just say "Isaac's not gay" then let them figure out the rest? At any rate, the rest of that story worked for me. Even Ted telling a longer-than-necessary story with unfamiliar cultural references. But mostly for Isaac firing up in Colin's defence even though he was hurt.
posted by harriet vane at 7:21 AM on May 10, 2023
Rebecca is hoping Roy and Keeley get back together. I'm really surprised that Keeley is moping over Jack. She doesn't like relationship conflict, but I would have thought her healthy self-esteem would kick in after being shamed for her sexuality. Good riddance to Jack.
Why was Colin's coming out off-screen? Did he say anything or did he just say "Isaac's not gay" then let them figure out the rest? At any rate, the rest of that story worked for me. Even Ted telling a longer-than-necessary story with unfamiliar cultural references. But mostly for Isaac firing up in Colin's defence even though he was hurt.
posted by harriet vane at 7:21 AM on May 10, 2023
So here we are at episode nine of the "redemption arc" that Nate fans assured us was going to be similar to Jamie Tartt's.
I really don't think you can fill a phone booth with the number of Nate fans in these comments. What I and a fair number of others have said that Nate will get a redemption this season because that is what this show does. Someone may have made a Jamie comparison, but I think the overwhelming belief is just that where's there's gravity, things fall when dropped. In Ted Lasso, the gravity is character redemption, and you don't take a good character and make them bad and leave them that way. It just doesn't happen. It doesn't mean the path there will be great.
I didn't have any problem with Rebecca making her speech to Roy. This season has been very much about Rebecca dishing out the advice to those around her, Keeley, Ted, and now Roy. She's becoming the focal point of telling others how they can be better versions of themselves in the same capacity that Ted served in season one. It's a sign of growth for Rebecca as she's coming into her own, dropping the self-confidence issues she had courtesy of Rupert. She has faith in herself and her decision, and now in providing advice to those around her.
Roy is such a weirdly all over the place written character that everything tends to work. His story reflects the Roy who is a fabulous uncle to his niece, and well, the Roy that has been exposed too long to Ted Lasso. The weird thing is that I swear I'd heard a story like that before somewhere else. Can't place it though.
A facet of Nate's character is an inability to be honest with those he looks up to. This lead to his blow up with Ted in Season 2. I feel pretty sure this is going to lead to a blow up with Rupert by the end of this season, and the events are going to be swapped. In season two he blew up, left Richmond, and became a coach at West Ham. This season he will blow up, be fired, and find a job at Richmond. I think the writers' perception of Nate, who is character is, and their ambitious plans overall for the season in general, is actually restraining his arc this season. I think they feel Nate's progress has to be slow, just like his frustration was a slow boil in the previous season, but it's really unsatisfactory at this pace. Maybe Jade's role will blossom much more into his conscience, maybe give us more of who she is, while she is helping by example, by direct statements, to help Nate understand who Rupert is and who he wants to be. For a brief moment during their introduction, I thought Rupert was going to try to find a way to flirt and/or try to get involved with Jade just as a power move with Nate, reminding him of his "alphaness" or whatever.
As someone who is straight, it's really impossible for me to judge any coming out story. I believe everyone knew that Richmond was going to be a welcoming and inclusive team once Colin came out, but I felt it was disingenuous to play Isaac off as being mad about Colin's sexuality, when it's revealed he was just mad that Colin hadn't come out to him. From what i recall, there's never been a major display of Colin and Isaac being any closer than anyone else on the team, for example. Then Colin makes the decision to come out almost as a defense of Isaac's own sexuality, "No he's not gay, it's me!" because teammates start making that assumption about Isaac. If they had just clipped that part out, left it with Colin understanding that Isaac did what he did because he was protective of his friend, and then explaining that to the team; I think that would've worked a lot better.
Ted's talk about his Bronco's fan was well. Called out in the show. It felt like Ted, though, because it's always been clear that Ted's stories often seem disconnected to their point until he makes that connection at the end. He speaks to his experiences, and it's clear, he has never had a friend who has come out, so for him, this childhood friend who was left alone because of who they are was his only way to process what he was trying to say to the team.
Overall, I enjoyed this episode, but like this season, it could have used a bit more revision.
posted by Atreides at 7:23 AM on May 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
I really don't think you can fill a phone booth with the number of Nate fans in these comments. What I and a fair number of others have said that Nate will get a redemption this season because that is what this show does. Someone may have made a Jamie comparison, but I think the overwhelming belief is just that where's there's gravity, things fall when dropped. In Ted Lasso, the gravity is character redemption, and you don't take a good character and make them bad and leave them that way. It just doesn't happen. It doesn't mean the path there will be great.
I didn't have any problem with Rebecca making her speech to Roy. This season has been very much about Rebecca dishing out the advice to those around her, Keeley, Ted, and now Roy. She's becoming the focal point of telling others how they can be better versions of themselves in the same capacity that Ted served in season one. It's a sign of growth for Rebecca as she's coming into her own, dropping the self-confidence issues she had courtesy of Rupert. She has faith in herself and her decision, and now in providing advice to those around her.
Roy is such a weirdly all over the place written character that everything tends to work. His story reflects the Roy who is a fabulous uncle to his niece, and well, the Roy that has been exposed too long to Ted Lasso. The weird thing is that I swear I'd heard a story like that before somewhere else. Can't place it though.
A facet of Nate's character is an inability to be honest with those he looks up to. This lead to his blow up with Ted in Season 2. I feel pretty sure this is going to lead to a blow up with Rupert by the end of this season, and the events are going to be swapped. In season two he blew up, left Richmond, and became a coach at West Ham. This season he will blow up, be fired, and find a job at Richmond. I think the writers' perception of Nate, who is character is, and their ambitious plans overall for the season in general, is actually restraining his arc this season. I think they feel Nate's progress has to be slow, just like his frustration was a slow boil in the previous season, but it's really unsatisfactory at this pace. Maybe Jade's role will blossom much more into his conscience, maybe give us more of who she is, while she is helping by example, by direct statements, to help Nate understand who Rupert is and who he wants to be. For a brief moment during their introduction, I thought Rupert was going to try to find a way to flirt and/or try to get involved with Jade just as a power move with Nate, reminding him of his "alphaness" or whatever.
As someone who is straight, it's really impossible for me to judge any coming out story. I believe everyone knew that Richmond was going to be a welcoming and inclusive team once Colin came out, but I felt it was disingenuous to play Isaac off as being mad about Colin's sexuality, when it's revealed he was just mad that Colin hadn't come out to him. From what i recall, there's never been a major display of Colin and Isaac being any closer than anyone else on the team, for example. Then Colin makes the decision to come out almost as a defense of Isaac's own sexuality, "No he's not gay, it's me!" because teammates start making that assumption about Isaac. If they had just clipped that part out, left it with Colin understanding that Isaac did what he did because he was protective of his friend, and then explaining that to the team; I think that would've worked a lot better.
Ted's talk about his Bronco's fan was well. Called out in the show. It felt like Ted, though, because it's always been clear that Ted's stories often seem disconnected to their point until he makes that connection at the end. He speaks to his experiences, and it's clear, he has never had a friend who has come out, so for him, this childhood friend who was left alone because of who they are was his only way to process what he was trying to say to the team.
Overall, I enjoyed this episode, but like this season, it could have used a bit more revision.
posted by Atreides at 7:23 AM on May 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
Forgot to add, I think Keeley's story has been one of the worse because instead of focusing on her adapting and continuing to succeed in her new career, the writers decided to saddle her with a romance that really just kind of ended with a one off "Jack's plane was shot down over the sea of Japan" type comment. It feels like they were spinning Keeley's wheels for someone else, like Jamie, or god forbid, Roy (after they've written him this season), instead of offering her something other than a bad fling with a billionaire.
posted by Atreides at 7:29 AM on May 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Atreides at 7:29 AM on May 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
I'm really surprised that Keeley is moping over Jack.
Yep, that whole "Sending a whole wall of texts to someone who is not responding" thing didn't seem very her and when Jack finally did write back and said she was out of the country for a few months, that's when Keely determined they had broken up? That's kind of odd.
Glad things worked out with Colin as I thought they would but yeah I hadn't known him and Isaac had any special bond. As much as I like the Isaac character, that whole "angry violent masculinity" thing when someone else is trying to handle a thing more subtly/carefully (i.e. getting tossed out of the match for assaulting the homophobic fan - a thing that would absolutely draw attention to "WTF is up with him?") is always a weird way to handle a coming out scene. Glad he and Colin worked it out. Glad the team was supportive in a "we DO care" not a "We don't care" way.
Nate/Jade still doesn't do much for me. I, too, was expecting Rupert to go after Jade in some way. I know this is just a tv thing but wow Jade's place is HUGE for someone who is a hostess at a restaurant.
I was here for all the schmaltzy-type stories and pep talks just because it feels like what the show basically does. I don't see Roy as a guy who would just blow off a press conference. I lol'd at how Roy called the reporter from the Independent "New Trent"
posted by jessamyn at 8:14 AM on May 10, 2023 [11 favorites]
Yep, that whole "Sending a whole wall of texts to someone who is not responding" thing didn't seem very her and when Jack finally did write back and said she was out of the country for a few months, that's when Keely determined they had broken up? That's kind of odd.
Glad things worked out with Colin as I thought they would but yeah I hadn't known him and Isaac had any special bond. As much as I like the Isaac character, that whole "angry violent masculinity" thing when someone else is trying to handle a thing more subtly/carefully (i.e. getting tossed out of the match for assaulting the homophobic fan - a thing that would absolutely draw attention to "WTF is up with him?") is always a weird way to handle a coming out scene. Glad he and Colin worked it out. Glad the team was supportive in a "we DO care" not a "We don't care" way.
Nate/Jade still doesn't do much for me. I, too, was expecting Rupert to go after Jade in some way. I know this is just a tv thing but wow Jade's place is HUGE for someone who is a hostess at a restaurant.
I was here for all the schmaltzy-type stories and pep talks just because it feels like what the show basically does. I don't see Roy as a guy who would just blow off a press conference. I lol'd at how Roy called the reporter from the Independent "New Trent"
posted by jessamyn at 8:14 AM on May 10, 2023 [11 favorites]
Forgot to add, I think Keeley's story has been one of the worse because instead of focusing on her adapting and continuing to succeed in her new career, the writers decided to saddle her with a romance that really just kind of ended with a one off "Jack's plane was shot down over the sea of Japan" type comment.
I'd be willing to bet one hundred dollars that the actress who plays Keeley had scheduling problems this past season. She is only in scenes with Rebecca and Higgins, usually in Rebecca's office or in the stands watching the game. Almost every other time she's shown with anyone from the main cast, it's a bunch of single shots. Pretty sure they'd shoot her stuff separately from the other person/people. There may have been a couple of exceptions but for the most part, if you watch, say, when the team is in Amsterdam: there is a scene with Rebecca and Keeley in a hallway watching Roy answer some questions from a reporter. I'm pretty sure they are never actually in the scene together, it's just body doubles. Even the back-and-forth between Rebecca and Keeley in that scene appears that they shot it at separate times.
I suspect this scheduling problem forced the writers to give Keeley her own separate storyline, and that's why we saw this weird 3-episode romance with Jack. The whole thing smacks of the ol' hiding-the-actress-who-plays-the-sitcom-mom's-pregnancy trickaroos.
posted by nushustu at 8:29 AM on May 10, 2023 [14 favorites]
I'd be willing to bet one hundred dollars that the actress who plays Keeley had scheduling problems this past season. She is only in scenes with Rebecca and Higgins, usually in Rebecca's office or in the stands watching the game. Almost every other time she's shown with anyone from the main cast, it's a bunch of single shots. Pretty sure they'd shoot her stuff separately from the other person/people. There may have been a couple of exceptions but for the most part, if you watch, say, when the team is in Amsterdam: there is a scene with Rebecca and Keeley in a hallway watching Roy answer some questions from a reporter. I'm pretty sure they are never actually in the scene together, it's just body doubles. Even the back-and-forth between Rebecca and Keeley in that scene appears that they shot it at separate times.
I suspect this scheduling problem forced the writers to give Keeley her own separate storyline, and that's why we saw this weird 3-episode romance with Jack. The whole thing smacks of the ol' hiding-the-actress-who-plays-the-sitcom-mom's-pregnancy trickaroos.
posted by nushustu at 8:29 AM on May 10, 2023 [14 favorites]
I'd be willing to bet one hundred dollars that the actress who plays Keeley had scheduling problems this past season.
You could be on to something. Juno Temple is reportedly in the upcoming season of Fargo.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 8:46 AM on May 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
You could be on to something. Juno Temple is reportedly in the upcoming season of Fargo.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 8:46 AM on May 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'd be willing to bet one hundred dollars that the actress who plays Keeley had scheduling problems this past season
Juno Temple was cast as one of the leads in season 5 of Fargo. There was a couple weeks overlap between when Ted Lasso wrapped and Fargo started filming — between that, preproduction and a cross-Atlantic commute, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Temple filmed most of her Ted Lasso scenes earlier in the production schedule.
posted by nathan_teske at 8:47 AM on May 10, 2023 [5 favorites]
Juno Temple was cast as one of the leads in season 5 of Fargo. There was a couple weeks overlap between when Ted Lasso wrapped and Fargo started filming — between that, preproduction and a cross-Atlantic commute, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Temple filmed most of her Ted Lasso scenes earlier in the production schedule.
posted by nathan_teske at 8:47 AM on May 10, 2023 [5 favorites]
I thought Rupert was going to try to find a way to flirt and/or try to get involved with Jade just as a power move with Nate, reminding him of his "alphaness" or whatever.
Thought same. Seemed like a power move to "forget" her name after that conversation, too. If he ever sees Jade again--perhaps visits the restaurant--I bet he does it. He knows where to find her now :/
I felt it was disingenuous to play Isaac off as being mad about Colin's sexuality, when it's revealed he was just mad that Colin hadn't come out to him.
I felt like it could go either way. Isaac being in some kind of weird shock and taking some personal offense, or "ugh, what do I do with this secret when I'm a blabber" or possibly being homophobic. I got why it was played that way, but once Isaac went into the stands, his heart was clear.
Why was Colin's coming out off-screen? Did he say anything or did he just say "Isaac's not gay" then let them figure out the rest?
Agreed, cutting out the two words was just weird. Maybe they felt they didn't need it/cut it out?
What Ben Trismegistus said is why I loved the episode. People complained that people weren't together? Well, they definitely were here! I especially loved Rebecca pointedly chewing Roy out, and then Roy's personal revelations during the Isaac incident about directions of anger, not knowing what others had going on, etc. I'd like to hope this swerves him back to Keeley soon.
(The "who on the team is the fittest" conversation was hilarious.)
Colin: "You'll never guess." Isaac immediately gets it right. LOL.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:48 AM on May 10, 2023 [11 favorites]
Thought same. Seemed like a power move to "forget" her name after that conversation, too. If he ever sees Jade again--perhaps visits the restaurant--I bet he does it. He knows where to find her now :/
I felt it was disingenuous to play Isaac off as being mad about Colin's sexuality, when it's revealed he was just mad that Colin hadn't come out to him.
I felt like it could go either way. Isaac being in some kind of weird shock and taking some personal offense, or "ugh, what do I do with this secret when I'm a blabber" or possibly being homophobic. I got why it was played that way, but once Isaac went into the stands, his heart was clear.
Why was Colin's coming out off-screen? Did he say anything or did he just say "Isaac's not gay" then let them figure out the rest?
Agreed, cutting out the two words was just weird. Maybe they felt they didn't need it/cut it out?
What Ben Trismegistus said is why I loved the episode. People complained that people weren't together? Well, they definitely were here! I especially loved Rebecca pointedly chewing Roy out, and then Roy's personal revelations during the Isaac incident about directions of anger, not knowing what others had going on, etc. I'd like to hope this swerves him back to Keeley soon.
(The "who on the team is the fittest" conversation was hilarious.)
Colin: "You'll never guess." Isaac immediately gets it right. LOL.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:48 AM on May 10, 2023 [11 favorites]
Thought same. Seemed like a power move to "forget" her name after that conversation, too. If he ever sees Jade again--perhaps visits the restaurant--I bet he does it. He knows where to find her now :/
Oh this is a thing that is definitely going to happen. Rupert was thwarted in trying to assert dominance over Nate by forcing him to cheat on Jade, so he'll do the next best thing and seduce her himself. Rupert is not used to people saying no to him, so that could be interesting.
I admit that I will be disappointed if Nate's trigger for redemption is "I am defending the woman I love" rather than "I have been a selfish prick to everyone I care about to shield my own insecurities," but I guess we'll see.
Agreed, cutting out the two words was just weird. Maybe they felt they didn't need it/cut it out?
I figured it was just an artistic choice. That sort of coming-out scene can come across very cheesy (even in Lasso-adjusted terms) so I wasn't bothered by the choice to play it off-screen and then come back during the reaction.
I half-expected the reveal to be that Isaac was also gay, but I guess not.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 8:55 AM on May 10, 2023 [7 favorites]
Oh this is a thing that is definitely going to happen. Rupert was thwarted in trying to assert dominance over Nate by forcing him to cheat on Jade, so he'll do the next best thing and seduce her himself. Rupert is not used to people saying no to him, so that could be interesting.
I admit that I will be disappointed if Nate's trigger for redemption is "I am defending the woman I love" rather than "I have been a selfish prick to everyone I care about to shield my own insecurities," but I guess we'll see.
Agreed, cutting out the two words was just weird. Maybe they felt they didn't need it/cut it out?
I figured it was just an artistic choice. That sort of coming-out scene can come across very cheesy (even in Lasso-adjusted terms) so I wasn't bothered by the choice to play it off-screen and then come back during the reaction.
I half-expected the reveal to be that Isaac was also gay, but I guess not.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 8:55 AM on May 10, 2023 [7 favorites]
Why was Colin's coming out off-screen?
I liked the choice. It reinforced the message of “it’s none of our damn business.” A bit of privacy in the depiction of a real-life hard, hard moment.
posted by Silvery Fish at 9:20 AM on May 10, 2023 [19 favorites]
I liked the choice. It reinforced the message of “it’s none of our damn business.” A bit of privacy in the depiction of a real-life hard, hard moment.
posted by Silvery Fish at 9:20 AM on May 10, 2023 [19 favorites]
Agree about this episode being mostly back to form, and I think more is happening than has been credited so far. Ted's Broncos speech was not charming and ended up being a kind of useless, ham-fisted metaphor that was unintentionally disrespectful. His other formerly charming mannerisms have become flat and grating to me lately, too, and I realized during this episode that's on purpose: "Ted Lasso" is a lifelong personality construct that Ted has used to avoid dealing with what was really upsetting him, which was the unexpected, early loss of his father. Michelle left him because she finally started to doubt if there was any real person underneath the persona, and definitely couldn't find him if he's in there, and finally gave up trying because she needs her partner to be an authentic person, whoever they are.
But as Ted is finally learning that he's been hiding under a persona, and hiding from some pretty fundamental stuff, and as he's figuring this out and starting to sort through what's been going on inside of him for decades, his persona is of course starting to crumble. He doesn't have the energy to maintain it, but also he's shedding a skin he no longer needs. I think they're trying to show us, in Ted most of all, a version of what deep, transformational personal growth actually looks like. So of course, Rebecca as a character now has an opportunity not only to grow personally (into the maternal, caregiving side of herself--even if she's berating Roy, she's trying to lift him up) but also professionally, as she steps into an active leadership role in the team's organization. As this thread of S3 emerges, I'm actually really impressed with this as a storytelling goal, it's remarkable and if they can successfully portray any version of it effectively, a very deft piece of writing.
I join the chorus in not understanding the Nate story or character arc. He's just off in a different show, starring characters we either loathe or don't know, and it's not an especially funny show, so I don't know why Nate's show is inside of Ted's show. The way Keeley was looking at Roy during that press conference, we may end up with them back together? While it would be narratively unsatisfying at this point, at least it would provide some kind of reason for breaking them up and having the Keeley Show for a little while. Otherwise, what the hell has all that been about?
"That guitarist from Cream" still has me laughing.
posted by LooseFilter at 10:41 AM on May 10, 2023 [13 favorites]
But as Ted is finally learning that he's been hiding under a persona, and hiding from some pretty fundamental stuff, and as he's figuring this out and starting to sort through what's been going on inside of him for decades, his persona is of course starting to crumble. He doesn't have the energy to maintain it, but also he's shedding a skin he no longer needs. I think they're trying to show us, in Ted most of all, a version of what deep, transformational personal growth actually looks like. So of course, Rebecca as a character now has an opportunity not only to grow personally (into the maternal, caregiving side of herself--even if she's berating Roy, she's trying to lift him up) but also professionally, as she steps into an active leadership role in the team's organization. As this thread of S3 emerges, I'm actually really impressed with this as a storytelling goal, it's remarkable and if they can successfully portray any version of it effectively, a very deft piece of writing.
I join the chorus in not understanding the Nate story or character arc. He's just off in a different show, starring characters we either loathe or don't know, and it's not an especially funny show, so I don't know why Nate's show is inside of Ted's show. The way Keeley was looking at Roy during that press conference, we may end up with them back together? While it would be narratively unsatisfying at this point, at least it would provide some kind of reason for breaking them up and having the Keeley Show for a little while. Otherwise, what the hell has all that been about?
"That guitarist from Cream" still has me laughing.
posted by LooseFilter at 10:41 AM on May 10, 2023 [13 favorites]
Also, I thought Isaac's reaction to learning that Colin is gay actually very understandable (not wise or compassionate, but relatable), especially when he asked "what is it about me that made you afraid to tell me?" Many straight guy friends experience the coming out process in ways that are piecemeal and confusing, and they often make the very common and human mistake of wondering if it was about themselves in some way. Colin's gentle correction of perspective was great, and once Isaac was reassured, he started to see his friend's need more clearly, that Colin is unbelievably vulnerable right now and needs his selfless support.
(I did get the sense in S1 & 2 that Colin and Isaac were buds outside of work, FWIW)
posted by LooseFilter at 10:52 AM on May 10, 2023 [18 favorites]
(I did get the sense in S1 & 2 that Colin and Isaac were buds outside of work, FWIW)
posted by LooseFilter at 10:52 AM on May 10, 2023 [18 favorites]
Hey everyone it looks like Ted Lasso is on TV again! So glad it's back!
posted by tzikeh at 11:16 AM on May 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by tzikeh at 11:16 AM on May 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
I really don't think you can fill a phone booth with the number of Nate fans in these comments. What I and a fair number of others have said that Nate will get a redemption this season because that is what this show does. Someone may have made a Jamie comparison, but I think the overwhelming belief is just that where's there's gravity, things fall when dropped. In Ted Lasso, the gravity is character redemption, and you don't take a good character and make them bad and leave them that way. It just doesn't happen. It doesn't mean the path there will be great.
There was a prediction that Nate was going to "earn" the head coach position at Richmond once Ted left, and I cannot understand what Nate has done or could possibly do in the next three episodes to earn that. Especially when we have Roy waking up before 4 am every day to train Jamie and talking calmly to Isaac about the destructive power of anger. We're seeing Roy handle the players' issues with an emphasis on nurturing fellow human beings, which is not something Nate has ever done.
posted by creepygirl at 11:18 AM on May 10, 2023 [11 favorites]
There was a prediction that Nate was going to "earn" the head coach position at Richmond once Ted left, and I cannot understand what Nate has done or could possibly do in the next three episodes to earn that. Especially when we have Roy waking up before 4 am every day to train Jamie and talking calmly to Isaac about the destructive power of anger. We're seeing Roy handle the players' issues with an emphasis on nurturing fellow human beings, which is not something Nate has ever done.
posted by creepygirl at 11:18 AM on May 10, 2023 [11 favorites]
so he'll do the next best thing and seduce her himself
My money is on Rupert buying out Nate’s favourite restaurant and fucking with it after that doesn’t work.
posted by cardboard at 11:19 AM on May 10, 2023 [12 favorites]
My money is on Rupert buying out Nate’s favourite restaurant and fucking with it after that doesn’t work.
posted by cardboard at 11:19 AM on May 10, 2023 [12 favorites]
The lens through which I’m viewing Nate’s arc right now is one of limits. Nate has tried to be a bigshot but not an outright jerk around Jade, and now he’s not being a jerk at all around her. He’s also having to stay grounded around his family because when it comes to his big time status, they are not having it at all. He is a jerk in his professional life more than anything. Even there, some cracks are showing in the facade, as he has shown signs he has regrets for the way he acted at Richmond and wanting to at least acknowledge that to Ted (which eventually didn’t happen.) He’s craved the status and attention that it has gotten him. But now, Rupert is offering him a chance to go all in, to cross completely over to the dark side. Nate found a line he isn’t willing to cross and there are likely going to be consequences from Rupert for this. If Nate is no longer the Wunderkind, where does he go from there? Being a jerk won’t get him anywhere if Rupert isn’t willing to keep him.
I love Rebecca ripping into Roy. It’s not about power or winning for her. Over the show they have shown that Rebecca and Roy are willing to be brutally honest to each other. In particular, Roy with the “struck by lightning” speech and now two separate times by Rebecca. She’s not just about the hope him and Keeley will get back together, she wants Roy to be better and she knows he can. At the post-game presser, Roy goes into something that he feels awful about and has for a long time. He did the same in Amsterdam with Jamie, talking about his grandfather and not learning to ride bikes with him. Rebecca is right that Roy doesn’t feel like he deserves good things and it’s starting to come out that she is onto something.
posted by azpenguin at 11:20 AM on May 10, 2023 [12 favorites]
I love Rebecca ripping into Roy. It’s not about power or winning for her. Over the show they have shown that Rebecca and Roy are willing to be brutally honest to each other. In particular, Roy with the “struck by lightning” speech and now two separate times by Rebecca. She’s not just about the hope him and Keeley will get back together, she wants Roy to be better and she knows he can. At the post-game presser, Roy goes into something that he feels awful about and has for a long time. He did the same in Amsterdam with Jamie, talking about his grandfather and not learning to ride bikes with him. Rebecca is right that Roy doesn’t feel like he deserves good things and it’s starting to come out that she is onto something.
posted by azpenguin at 11:20 AM on May 10, 2023 [12 favorites]
He's still a jerk who has done nothing to earn redemption. Not going whoring with Rupert is not a sign of personal growth. I'm hoping this is all building towards some massive shift for Nate, but I remain skeptical.
I think the importance of the scene wasn't that 'he didn't go whoring' but that he decided to break away from Rupert and his influence, and he chose what was good for Jade & him, a choice that reinforces positive things in his life. Things that are happening because he was himself but also because he listened to people who actually care for him.
He certainly hasn't earned his 'redemption' but things will probably accelerate from there, I do hope we'll see him fully realize what he did and make proper amends & reparations.
Now I still don't understand why Jade loves him or even why he loves her beyond the initial crush, but I'll pretend this happened offscreen for now.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 11:25 AM on May 10, 2023 [9 favorites]
I think the importance of the scene wasn't that 'he didn't go whoring' but that he decided to break away from Rupert and his influence, and he chose what was good for Jade & him, a choice that reinforces positive things in his life. Things that are happening because he was himself but also because he listened to people who actually care for him.
He certainly hasn't earned his 'redemption' but things will probably accelerate from there, I do hope we'll see him fully realize what he did and make proper amends & reparations.
Now I still don't understand why Jade loves him or even why he loves her beyond the initial crush, but I'll pretend this happened offscreen for now.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 11:25 AM on May 10, 2023 [9 favorites]
harriet vane: Why was Colin's coming out off-screen? Did he say anything or did he just say "Isaac's not gay" then let them figure out the rest?
That's exactly what I thought. He stood up, told the room that Isaac is not gay, and then continued to stand there, silent, because that's all that was necessary.
BTW when I said above that I'm so glad Ted Lasso is back on the air, I forgot to include the fact that I'm just straight-up ignoring the Nate storyline. The episodes are so much better if you do that -- this one in particular is a very good episode! And if you cut the Nate shit, it's about 30 minutes, which is what they're meant to be!
posted by tzikeh at 11:34 AM on May 10, 2023 [11 favorites]
That's exactly what I thought. He stood up, told the room that Isaac is not gay, and then continued to stand there, silent, because that's all that was necessary.
BTW when I said above that I'm so glad Ted Lasso is back on the air, I forgot to include the fact that I'm just straight-up ignoring the Nate storyline. The episodes are so much better if you do that -- this one in particular is a very good episode! And if you cut the Nate shit, it's about 30 minutes, which is what they're meant to be!
posted by tzikeh at 11:34 AM on May 10, 2023 [11 favorites]
creepygirl: There was a prediction that Nate was going to "earn" the head coach position at Richmond once Ted left, and I cannot understand what Nate has done or could possibly do in the next three episodes to earn that. Especially when we have Roy waking up before 4 am every day to train Jamie and talking calmly to Isaac about the destructive power of anger. We're seeing Roy handle the players' issues with an emphasis on nurturing fellow human beings, which is not something Nate has ever done.
I think the scene at the end with Roy actually taking on the press conference and doing it in a "Roy Kent" way, but in an especially "This is the Best Roy Kent timeline" way, is a giant Bat-signal of "the team will be in good hands when Ted goes back to Kansas."
posted by tzikeh at 11:39 AM on May 10, 2023 [7 favorites]
I think the scene at the end with Roy actually taking on the press conference and doing it in a "Roy Kent" way, but in an especially "This is the Best Roy Kent timeline" way, is a giant Bat-signal of "the team will be in good hands when Ted goes back to Kansas."
posted by tzikeh at 11:39 AM on May 10, 2023 [7 favorites]
Oh, I wanted to talk about the music choice too -- to open with a game montage scored with the overture from La Cage Aux Folles was really hitting that nail super-directly on its head. I'm not sure if I love it or hate it (accidentally typed "love it or nate it" first and I'm going to be using that). For anyone familiar with the musical, you instantly knew this would be The Episode About Colin, but for those totally unfamiliar, what did you think about the music in the opening? Was it weird to have what (I imagine) most people would assume is something from musical theater as the score to a football match?
Also fully expected the outro score to be "I Am What I Am" and I was not disappointed, but I'm not gay, and certainly not a gay man -- so once again I don't know if I love it or Nate it.
posted by tzikeh at 11:49 AM on May 10, 2023 [6 favorites]
Also fully expected the outro score to be "I Am What I Am" and I was not disappointed, but I'm not gay, and certainly not a gay man -- so once again I don't know if I love it or Nate it.
posted by tzikeh at 11:49 AM on May 10, 2023 [6 favorites]
I think the overlap between Ted Lasso fans and Musical Theater fans is not zero. I liked the opening sequence, nail head hitting notwithstanding.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 12:02 PM on May 10, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 12:02 PM on May 10, 2023 [5 favorites]
Was that from the French movie or some other thing? In any case, I didn't recognize it, but from what happened in the last episode it seemed obvious to me that something was happening about Collin in this episode, also the episode title was a clear giveaway.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 12:14 PM on May 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by WaterAndPixels at 12:14 PM on May 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
WaterAndPixels: Was that from the French movie or some other thing?
It's from the Broadway musical La Cage Aux Folles by Jerry Herman, which is based on the French stage play La Cage Aux Folles, but not on the movie (it was a whole thing). The music that played during the opening practice scene was the overture to the show, and the outro song, I Am What I Am, is pretty famous as a gay anthem for a variety of reasons.
posted by tzikeh at 12:20 PM on May 10, 2023 [7 favorites]
It's from the Broadway musical La Cage Aux Folles by Jerry Herman, which is based on the French stage play La Cage Aux Folles, but not on the movie (it was a whole thing). The music that played during the opening practice scene was the overture to the show, and the outro song, I Am What I Am, is pretty famous as a gay anthem for a variety of reasons.
posted by tzikeh at 12:20 PM on May 10, 2023 [7 favorites]
There was a prediction that Nate was going to "earn" the head coach position at Richmond once Ted left, and I cannot understand what Nate has done or could possibly do in the next three episodes to earn that. Especially when we have Roy waking up before 4 am every day to train Jamie and talking calmly to Isaac about the destructive power of anger. We're seeing Roy handle the players' issues with an emphasis on nurturing fellow human beings, which is not something Nate has ever done.
You're 100% correct, which is why the whole Nate arc continues to be a crapfest. It's like his character arc is a rudderless boat, but it's caught in the current of the rest of the show, so we know or perhaps better put, have expectations that it will reach a destination where the better boats are sailing/powering on or have already arrived at. i think we can still even say Nate can "earn" the coaching job, but will it feel earned for the viewer? who knows. Another even more distinct possibility is that Nate does get a Richmond coaching job, but accepts there's more to coaching than just being a whiz kid at strategy - its the efforts being put in by Roy and Coach Beard, and so on.
This is a big area that's just been left on the ground but for the season premiere, I think, which is mainly Nate's interactions with his own players. For comparison, Richmond's coaches have their office right off the locker room and constantly engage with them. Nate is in his own little office suite which is who knows how far away from the West Ham locker room. The players do as he says like cogs in a machine, likely because of Rupert's dicta, less respect for their coach. They win, so they're happy(?), who the heck knows. Nate's engagement with the Love Hounds indicated he doesn't really care about this aspect of coaching.
In the end, it seems extremely likely Nate will return to Richmond. That he will have a blow up, tell Rupert what for, get fired, all in all learning that what he thought he wanted, being a respected winning coach, wasn't what he really wanted all along because it was empty. Ted Lasso is a show about family and inclusion, friendship and support, and Nate has none of this at the moment, and it can only end with him realizing he needs it and it's more important (like Jade is versus Rupert's lying cheating ways) as the character's conclusion. There's a lesser chance that this all happens and he ends up at a different club, but that wouldn't draw him back into the family and community that the show is built around.
posted by Atreides at 12:55 PM on May 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
You're 100% correct, which is why the whole Nate arc continues to be a crapfest. It's like his character arc is a rudderless boat, but it's caught in the current of the rest of the show, so we know or perhaps better put, have expectations that it will reach a destination where the better boats are sailing/powering on or have already arrived at. i think we can still even say Nate can "earn" the coaching job, but will it feel earned for the viewer? who knows. Another even more distinct possibility is that Nate does get a Richmond coaching job, but accepts there's more to coaching than just being a whiz kid at strategy - its the efforts being put in by Roy and Coach Beard, and so on.
This is a big area that's just been left on the ground but for the season premiere, I think, which is mainly Nate's interactions with his own players. For comparison, Richmond's coaches have their office right off the locker room and constantly engage with them. Nate is in his own little office suite which is who knows how far away from the West Ham locker room. The players do as he says like cogs in a machine, likely because of Rupert's dicta, less respect for their coach. They win, so they're happy(?), who the heck knows. Nate's engagement with the Love Hounds indicated he doesn't really care about this aspect of coaching.
In the end, it seems extremely likely Nate will return to Richmond. That he will have a blow up, tell Rupert what for, get fired, all in all learning that what he thought he wanted, being a respected winning coach, wasn't what he really wanted all along because it was empty. Ted Lasso is a show about family and inclusion, friendship and support, and Nate has none of this at the moment, and it can only end with him realizing he needs it and it's more important (like Jade is versus Rupert's lying cheating ways) as the character's conclusion. There's a lesser chance that this all happens and he ends up at a different club, but that wouldn't draw him back into the family and community that the show is built around.
posted by Atreides at 12:55 PM on May 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
This is a big area that's just been left on the ground but for the season premiere, I think, which is mainly Nate's interactions with his own players.
I completely agree with this. My predication from the end of last season was that the first half of this season would include Nate being a needlessly cruel hard-ass to his players, resulting in massive wins for West Ham but no warm fuzzies for the coach. They sort of alluded to this in the season premiere, but I don't believe we've seen Nate interact with his players since. Seems like a missed opportunity.
That said, I wouldn't be disappointed if Nate ends up back in Richmond but inferior to Roy and Beard. He can be Coach #3 after Ted leaves and Roy becomes head coach.
I could almost see Ted disappearing at the end like Mary Poppins, confident in the knowledge that he has changed these people for the better, and drifting off into the east wind.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 1:20 PM on May 10, 2023 [12 favorites]
I completely agree with this. My predication from the end of last season was that the first half of this season would include Nate being a needlessly cruel hard-ass to his players, resulting in massive wins for West Ham but no warm fuzzies for the coach. They sort of alluded to this in the season premiere, but I don't believe we've seen Nate interact with his players since. Seems like a missed opportunity.
That said, I wouldn't be disappointed if Nate ends up back in Richmond but inferior to Roy and Beard. He can be Coach #3 after Ted leaves and Roy becomes head coach.
I could almost see Ted disappearing at the end like Mary Poppins, confident in the knowledge that he has changed these people for the better, and drifting off into the east wind.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 1:20 PM on May 10, 2023 [12 favorites]
Ye gods, the scene with Rupert zeroing in on Jade was so chilling. You can see him methodically working through his charm offense toolkit, trying to find a way to hook her as she shuts him down and deflects him. Then, having failed to get the response out of her that he wants, he tries to get Nate to cheat on her instead. What a horror show.
Jessamyn, I'm so glad I wasn't the only one to openly scoff at Jade's enormous apartment. Maybe she's got family money and is just hostessing to pass the time?
posted by merriment at 2:18 PM on May 10, 2023 [17 favorites]
Jessamyn, I'm so glad I wasn't the only one to openly scoff at Jade's enormous apartment. Maybe she's got family money and is just hostessing to pass the time?
posted by merriment at 2:18 PM on May 10, 2023 [17 favorites]
Making Colin's coming out all about Isaac - dramatically - just to have Colin say "it's not about you" is right but feels more manipulative than I like in this show.
Also, Bill Lawrence's soft masc influence is really missing this season. So much toxic masculinity in this episode in particular - yeah, sure, that's probably more realistic, but this show has never been about the realism of football.
Knowing that much of the reason for the delay of this season is because of the post work - all the CGI to put them in these giant stadiums stadiums - explains why a lot of those scenes feel off, while the Richmond homeground stuff has more life.
Having Nate's growth in this episode be "doesn't cheat on Jade" is like the lowest bar possible. I hate that Nate finding love is supposed to be his redemption arc.
posted by crossoverman at 4:11 PM on May 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
Also, Bill Lawrence's soft masc influence is really missing this season. So much toxic masculinity in this episode in particular - yeah, sure, that's probably more realistic, but this show has never been about the realism of football.
Knowing that much of the reason for the delay of this season is because of the post work - all the CGI to put them in these giant stadiums stadiums - explains why a lot of those scenes feel off, while the Richmond homeground stuff has more life.
Having Nate's growth in this episode be "doesn't cheat on Jade" is like the lowest bar possible. I hate that Nate finding love is supposed to be his redemption arc.
posted by crossoverman at 4:11 PM on May 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm not a fan of any of the Nate/Jade romance arc either but I don't think Nate's growth in this episode is "he doesn't cheat on Jade." I think it's the conscious realization that he can't have what makes him happy AND exist in harmony with Rupert or Rupert's value system. It's the understanding that Rupert is not the kind of man whose approval is worth caring about, and the understanding that if he is going to keep what he cares about (not just Jade but also his values), he's going to end up in conflict with Rupert.
And I really dislike that Jade basically only exists as "plot function: something Nate cares about more than Older Male Authority Figure's Approval," but... I think Nate wouldn't have come to that realization without SOMETHING that he cared about more than Older Male Authority Figure's Approval, something that he could risk losing.
posted by Jeanne at 4:25 PM on May 10, 2023 [9 favorites]
And I really dislike that Jade basically only exists as "plot function: something Nate cares about more than Older Male Authority Figure's Approval," but... I think Nate wouldn't have come to that realization without SOMETHING that he cared about more than Older Male Authority Figure's Approval, something that he could risk losing.
posted by Jeanne at 4:25 PM on May 10, 2023 [9 favorites]
LooseFilter: "(I did get the sense in S1 & 2 that Colin and Isaac were buds outside of work, FWIW)"
They started out as Jamie's friends and co-tormentors of Nate. Just shows you how much depth they've added to these characters in the last two seasons.
Ben Trismegistus: "I half-expected the reveal to be that Isaac was also gay, but I guess not."
Here's something I would've bet $10 on (and, hell, it might end up coming to light in a later episode):
I thought that Isaac was acting exactly like someone who'd lost a closeted family member to suicide. Isaac's aloofness toward Colin felt very much like an “I don't want to face this again” sort of positioning, and his reaction to hearing the F-word from a fan felt like what you'd get from someone who hasn't forgiven himself for saying that same word countless times in his ignorant youth in front of (let's suppose) a brother who was fighting a battle the whole time.
Anyway, I need to resist the urge to wade further into the Nate thing, but here I go: Nate will redeem himself, but it won't be the expansive definition of “redemption” that some of us seem to want. I think he will broadly decide that Ted is closer than Rupert to having figured out what it means to be a man, and this decision will be belied by some sort of plot-important choice of his. I don't think he'll wail and grind his teeth. I would like to see him apologize specifically to Ted (for obvious reasons) and to Will (for the fucked-up hazing shit from last season), but mainly I just want him to be less of a neurotic mess and just go with his initial instincts on things.
posted by savetheclocktower at 4:44 PM on May 10, 2023 [12 favorites]
They started out as Jamie's friends and co-tormentors of Nate. Just shows you how much depth they've added to these characters in the last two seasons.
Ben Trismegistus: "I half-expected the reveal to be that Isaac was also gay, but I guess not."
Here's something I would've bet $10 on (and, hell, it might end up coming to light in a later episode):
I thought that Isaac was acting exactly like someone who'd lost a closeted family member to suicide. Isaac's aloofness toward Colin felt very much like an “I don't want to face this again” sort of positioning, and his reaction to hearing the F-word from a fan felt like what you'd get from someone who hasn't forgiven himself for saying that same word countless times in his ignorant youth in front of (let's suppose) a brother who was fighting a battle the whole time.
Anyway, I need to resist the urge to wade further into the Nate thing, but here I go: Nate will redeem himself, but it won't be the expansive definition of “redemption” that some of us seem to want. I think he will broadly decide that Ted is closer than Rupert to having figured out what it means to be a man, and this decision will be belied by some sort of plot-important choice of his. I don't think he'll wail and grind his teeth. I would like to see him apologize specifically to Ted (for obvious reasons) and to Will (for the fucked-up hazing shit from last season), but mainly I just want him to be less of a neurotic mess and just go with his initial instincts on things.
posted by savetheclocktower at 4:44 PM on May 10, 2023 [12 favorites]
I'm so glad I wasn't the only one to openly scoff at Jade's enormous apartment.
It had inside stairs! Ted's place doesn't even have inside stairs.
posted by jessamyn at 6:36 PM on May 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
It had inside stairs! Ted's place doesn't even have inside stairs.
posted by jessamyn at 6:36 PM on May 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
I think he will broadly decide that Ted is closer than Rupert to having figured out what it means to be a man, and this decision will be belied by some sort of plot-important choice of his.Yes, this is all I need. I don't quite know how you distance yourself from Rupert, but if Nate can do that and trust his own more generous impulses then it's not essential for him to go back to Richmond.
posted by harriet vane at 6:45 PM on May 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
I don't want Keeley and Roy to end up together. I don't want Keeley and Jamie to end up together. I don't want Keeley and Jack to end up together. I want Keeley to take some time off dating so she can do some work on herself and make better relationship choices.
I'm not a huge fan of how Nate's arc is being handled, but I like the actor and I'm hoping they'll bring his story around in a dramatically satisfying way. I like the actor who plays Jade too, and with the glimpses they've given of her personality (especially the way she wasn't having any of Rupert's shit) it makes me wish her role had been more substantial.
I liked that when Nate showed up at Jade's they hugged instead of kissing.
Anthony Head is clearly a side-sleeper.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 6:57 PM on May 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
I'm not a huge fan of how Nate's arc is being handled, but I like the actor and I'm hoping they'll bring his story around in a dramatically satisfying way. I like the actor who plays Jade too, and with the glimpses they've given of her personality (especially the way she wasn't having any of Rupert's shit) it makes me wish her role had been more substantial.
I liked that when Nate showed up at Jade's they hugged instead of kissing.
Anthony Head is clearly a side-sleeper.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 6:57 PM on May 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
This AV Club review gets to the heart of why I didn't really like this episode, despite all the elements that should have made it good. The review's comparison to Schitt's Creek really opened up my thinking on why this season isn't working for me.
Just shows you how much depth they've added to these characters in the last two seasons.
I'm really struggling to see these additional bits of information as "depth". If learning Colin is gay had given some insight into his character in earlier seasons, that would be depth. Now it just feels like they found a story and made the character gay so it could play out.
posted by crossoverman at 7:01 PM on May 10, 2023
Just shows you how much depth they've added to these characters in the last two seasons.
I'm really struggling to see these additional bits of information as "depth". If learning Colin is gay had given some insight into his character in earlier seasons, that would be depth. Now it just feels like they found a story and made the character gay so it could play out.
posted by crossoverman at 7:01 PM on May 10, 2023
> I like the actor who plays Jade too, and with the glimpses they've given of her personality (especially the way she wasn't having any of Rupert's shit)
Not to mention reading Kafka on the couch for fun
> I want Keeley to take some time off dating so she can do some work on herself and make better relationship choices
I dunno, though - she broke up with Jamie for good reasons, many of which have been resolved through his personal growth, and Roy wasn't a particularly bad choice? I don't think?
Although Roy has largely been in a holding pattern, so whether he "deserves" Keeley again is an open question for me
> I lol'd at how Roy called the reporter from the Independent "New Trent"
I loved that whole bit. "I prefer you to Old Trent", "You, Goblin King", etc. More Roy Kent pressers please!
posted by coriolisdave at 7:07 PM on May 10, 2023 [9 favorites]
Not to mention reading Kafka on the couch for fun
> I want Keeley to take some time off dating so she can do some work on herself and make better relationship choices
I dunno, though - she broke up with Jamie for good reasons, many of which have been resolved through his personal growth, and Roy wasn't a particularly bad choice? I don't think?
Although Roy has largely been in a holding pattern, so whether he "deserves" Keeley again is an open question for me
> I lol'd at how Roy called the reporter from the Independent "New Trent"
I loved that whole bit. "I prefer you to Old Trent", "You, Goblin King", etc. More Roy Kent pressers please!
posted by coriolisdave at 7:07 PM on May 10, 2023 [9 favorites]
I'm really flummoxed by everyone saying Jade's apartment is big. It's teeny; she enters the kitchen from the den/family room side, takes one (maybe two steps) and she's entirely exiting the kitchen into the hallway/entryway to her apartment.
The inside stairs everyone is seeing are behind Nate — they're the interior stairs of the apartment building, not the interior of her apartment. Jade opened her apartment door (#4) and everything big and expansive we see is in the common areas/hallway of her building. We get two views, once from Jade's perspective when she opens the door and say's "Hey" and we flip to seeing what she sees, Nate in the hallway with the stairs over his right (camera left) shoulder and (after he takes a step forward and hugs her) the front vestibule with the bike just inside over his left shoulder (and her right shoulder, when we're behind Jade).
A moment later, we get a view of their hug from the top of the stairs, and it's clear that her apartment door is behind her, and we can see the door frames to other apartments in the building.
(We don't know how big her apartment is, but a) the stairs aren't in her apartment and b) all we've seen is her den/family room and both ends of her little kitchen.)
At first, I thought someone was misremembering Colin's indoor stairs as Jades. Now I think y'all are punking me.
posted by The Wrong Kind of Cheese at 7:50 PM on May 10, 2023 [17 favorites]
The inside stairs everyone is seeing are behind Nate — they're the interior stairs of the apartment building, not the interior of her apartment. Jade opened her apartment door (#4) and everything big and expansive we see is in the common areas/hallway of her building. We get two views, once from Jade's perspective when she opens the door and say's "Hey" and we flip to seeing what she sees, Nate in the hallway with the stairs over his right (camera left) shoulder and (after he takes a step forward and hugs her) the front vestibule with the bike just inside over his left shoulder (and her right shoulder, when we're behind Jade).
A moment later, we get a view of their hug from the top of the stairs, and it's clear that her apartment door is behind her, and we can see the door frames to other apartments in the building.
(We don't know how big her apartment is, but a) the stairs aren't in her apartment and b) all we've seen is her den/family room and both ends of her little kitchen.)
At first, I thought someone was misremembering Colin's indoor stairs as Jades. Now I think y'all are punking me.
posted by The Wrong Kind of Cheese at 7:50 PM on May 10, 2023 [17 favorites]
My wife is, every episode, vocally jealous of Rebecca’s wardrobe but this episode I was the one who couldn’t stop himself for coveting Trent’s tee shirts.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 9:29 PM on May 10, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by Parasite Unseen at 9:29 PM on May 10, 2023 [10 favorites]
I would bet $100 not one single gay person touched this script.
Also for the Jade character, someone thought just give her a book and that's a personality I guess? Then why pick that weird horny book? There are better Murakami books, but why Murakami anyway. Ugh this show.
posted by lookoutbelow at 10:19 PM on May 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
Also for the Jade character, someone thought just give her a book and that's a personality I guess? Then why pick that weird horny book? There are better Murakami books, but why Murakami anyway. Ugh this show.
posted by lookoutbelow at 10:19 PM on May 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
> Not to mention reading Kafka on the couch for fun
Jade isn’t reading Kafka, but is reading Kafka on the Shore by Murakami, which is a reference to the fact that Ted Lasso is set in a universe where Ted is magical and Jade isn’t real.
posted by rajbot at 11:44 PM on May 10, 2023 [14 favorites]
Jade isn’t reading Kafka, but is reading Kafka on the Shore by Murakami, which is a reference to the fact that Ted Lasso is set in a universe where Ted is magical and Jade isn’t real.
posted by rajbot at 11:44 PM on May 10, 2023 [14 favorites]
Finally Jade was given something to do other than be a Sexy Lamp
When Rupert said she was from southern Poland, I realized that she hadn't had enough consecutive dialogue in the entire series so far for me to recognize that she was supposed to have a non-UK accent.
posted by Etrigan at 4:51 AM on May 11, 2023 [36 favorites]
When Rupert said she was from southern Poland, I realized that she hadn't had enough consecutive dialogue in the entire series so far for me to recognize that she was supposed to have a non-UK accent.
posted by Etrigan at 4:51 AM on May 11, 2023 [36 favorites]
When Rupert said she was from southern Poland, I realized that she hadn't had enough consecutive dialogue in the entire series so far for me to recognize that she was supposed to have a non-UK accent.
Same. I was so confused by the exchange and started thinking maybe I misheard and he was referencing some little part of London or something.
posted by Atreides at 6:45 AM on May 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Same. I was so confused by the exchange and started thinking maybe I misheard and he was referencing some little part of London or something.
posted by Atreides at 6:45 AM on May 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
I was the one who couldn’t stop himself for coveting Trent’s tee shirts.
Most definitely, that Dolly t-shirt especially.
posted by LooseFilter at 6:53 AM on May 11, 2023 [7 favorites]
Most definitely, that Dolly t-shirt especially.
posted by LooseFilter at 6:53 AM on May 11, 2023 [7 favorites]
a lot of Ted's monologues have been a little too rambling and saccharine this season, but I did appreciate that he used the locker room speech to say, "No, we don't not care that Colin is gay, we do care because we love him." That pivot was really valuable!
And, I loved Isaac and Colin playing video games together with Isaac just firing off question after question at Colin.
And, I also loved an episode that had the characters all together. That vibe has been too few and far between this season.
Agreed with a lot of the criticism here, but, it's only bothering me occasionally, and I'm hopeful that they tie things together satisfactorily.
posted by entropone at 8:25 AM on May 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
And, I loved Isaac and Colin playing video games together with Isaac just firing off question after question at Colin.
And, I also loved an episode that had the characters all together. That vibe has been too few and far between this season.
Agreed with a lot of the criticism here, but, it's only bothering me occasionally, and I'm hopeful that they tie things together satisfactorily.
posted by entropone at 8:25 AM on May 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
Ahoy from the Roy/Keeley ship! Roy is a work in progress. Keeley is also work in progress. Both have backslid a bit without each other this season and both are slowly starting to come around. I don't think either of them needs to be a flawless gem to "deserve" the other.
And I think that's part of what I like about the show. Not one person is perfect. (Leslie & Julie Higgins, and Jan Maas come close, but that's just me).
There's a TikTok out there where the creator visits her past self. She tells Past Her that her favorite characters from Season 3 will be Trent Crimm and Jamie Tartt and past self is SHOCKED. That's my experience this season.
posted by kimberussell at 8:35 AM on May 11, 2023 [19 favorites]
And I think that's part of what I like about the show. Not one person is perfect. (Leslie & Julie Higgins, and Jan Maas come close, but that's just me).
There's a TikTok out there where the creator visits her past self. She tells Past Her that her favorite characters from Season 3 will be Trent Crimm and Jamie Tartt and past self is SHOCKED. That's my experience this season.
posted by kimberussell at 8:35 AM on May 11, 2023 [19 favorites]
I half-expected the reveal to be that Isaac was also gay, but I guess not.
Yeah, when Colin invited Isaac inside shortly after Jan had brought up the statistical likelihood of multiple gay players on the team there was definitely a part of me that got excited about the potential of an unexpected plot twist.
posted by not just everyday big moggies at 9:21 AM on May 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
Yeah, when Colin invited Isaac inside shortly after Jan had brought up the statistical likelihood of multiple gay players on the team there was definitely a part of me that got excited about the potential of an unexpected plot twist.
posted by not just everyday big moggies at 9:21 AM on May 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
He certainly hasn't earned his 'redemption' but things will probably accelerate from there, I do hope we'll see him fully realize what he did and make proper amends & reparations.
I am imagining the series finale turning into a frenzied montage of Nate making countless ornate apology boxes for everyone he has wronged.
posted by snofoam at 9:22 AM on May 11, 2023 [16 favorites]
I am imagining the series finale turning into a frenzied montage of Nate making countless ornate apology boxes for everyone he has wronged.
posted by snofoam at 9:22 AM on May 11, 2023 [16 favorites]
I have also thought that in all likelihood, there's probably at least 2-3 gay guys on any sports team.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:26 AM on May 11, 2023
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:26 AM on May 11, 2023
I am imagining the series finale turning into a frenzied montage of Nate making countless ornate apology boxes for everyone he has wronged.
Then a lorry will smash them, causing a mess, the team will gather around to help clean it up while happily re-embracing their former kit man and now new fourth assistant coach (Will got tapped).
posted by Atreides at 10:29 AM on May 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
Then a lorry will smash them, causing a mess, the team will gather around to help clean it up while happily re-embracing their former kit man and now new fourth assistant coach (Will got tapped).
posted by Atreides at 10:29 AM on May 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
And I really dislike that Jade basically only exists as "plot function: something Nate cares about more than Older Male Authority Figure's Approval," but... I think Nate wouldn't have come to that realization without SOMETHING that he cared about more than Older Male Authority Figure's Approval, something that he could risk losing.
This is a good way of putting it. It's like the irritating rhetorical device whereby some men can only be made to care about difficult issues primarily faced by women (SA, abortion, etc.) after you tell them to think about it in the context of their wife, sister, mother, or daughter.
I have also thought that in all likelihood, there's probably at least 2-3 gay guys on any sports team.
I think we can all agree that Jamie is some sort of chaos bisexual.
Seriously, though, I read something saying that Colin's storyline is important because, while there are out gay players in the European leagues, there are none in the Premier League.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 10:56 AM on May 11, 2023 [11 favorites]
This is a good way of putting it. It's like the irritating rhetorical device whereby some men can only be made to care about difficult issues primarily faced by women (SA, abortion, etc.) after you tell them to think about it in the context of their wife, sister, mother, or daughter.
I have also thought that in all likelihood, there's probably at least 2-3 gay guys on any sports team.
I think we can all agree that Jamie is some sort of chaos bisexual.
Seriously, though, I read something saying that Colin's storyline is important because, while there are out gay players in the European leagues, there are none in the Premier League.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 10:56 AM on May 11, 2023 [11 favorites]
I’m on this ride until the end of the line. That’s the honest truth. They can’t shake me off, even though sometimes it feels like they’re trying.
I appreciate that Season 2 sought to complicate (or “problematize”) many of the things we thought we knew about the characters by the end of Season 1. That’s a good organizing principle for drama in general! It just feels like some of the arcs were built on soggy ground in S2, and so they’re not gonna hold up the structure being built on them in S3.
Nate is the most obvious example, and has been thoroughly covered upthread and in prior weeks here. The Keeley/Roy arc ended weirdly in S2 and hasn’t delivered anything in S3, which made the Jack detour even more jarring. The Ted/Michelle/Dr. Jacob thread in S3 is just so full of squick that I can’t tell where the writers are even trying to go.
I wish we could unravel the threads from S2 and S3 and have another go, a do-over.
It wasn’t an inherently bad idea to have Nate curdle in his toxic masculinity in S2. I even like the idea of putting him in Rupert’s clutches for potential (unintended) aversion therapy.
Turning Ted’s positivity inside out, to understand better where it comes from and how it has limits, was a pretty great idea for expanding how we think about toxic masculinity. I even appreciated the attempt to mirror that journey through Rebecca’s exasperation with her own mother and Mom’s seemingly meek acceptance of Dad’s infidelity. There are many ways we receive and respond to betrayal from our parents.
Roy struggling to find himself in retirement was set up beautifully at the end of S1. Exploring the limits of Keeley’s ability to take that journey with him felt totally valid as a direction to take.
I dunno. In S1 saw a flash of greatness, some alchemy, and the groundwork seemingly carefully laid for even more. It just hasn’t stuck the landing, and while I’m mixing metaphors, we’re out of room for the show to pull it all together before the end in ways that we intuit will be dramatically satisfying.
May I end up eating all these words by the time S3E12 rolls the closing credits. But I’m not betting on it. Sigh.
posted by sockshaveholes at 3:46 PM on May 11, 2023 [7 favorites]
I appreciate that Season 2 sought to complicate (or “problematize”) many of the things we thought we knew about the characters by the end of Season 1. That’s a good organizing principle for drama in general! It just feels like some of the arcs were built on soggy ground in S2, and so they’re not gonna hold up the structure being built on them in S3.
Nate is the most obvious example, and has been thoroughly covered upthread and in prior weeks here. The Keeley/Roy arc ended weirdly in S2 and hasn’t delivered anything in S3, which made the Jack detour even more jarring. The Ted/Michelle/Dr. Jacob thread in S3 is just so full of squick that I can’t tell where the writers are even trying to go.
I wish we could unravel the threads from S2 and S3 and have another go, a do-over.
It wasn’t an inherently bad idea to have Nate curdle in his toxic masculinity in S2. I even like the idea of putting him in Rupert’s clutches for potential (unintended) aversion therapy.
Turning Ted’s positivity inside out, to understand better where it comes from and how it has limits, was a pretty great idea for expanding how we think about toxic masculinity. I even appreciated the attempt to mirror that journey through Rebecca’s exasperation with her own mother and Mom’s seemingly meek acceptance of Dad’s infidelity. There are many ways we receive and respond to betrayal from our parents.
Roy struggling to find himself in retirement was set up beautifully at the end of S1. Exploring the limits of Keeley’s ability to take that journey with him felt totally valid as a direction to take.
I dunno. In S1 saw a flash of greatness, some alchemy, and the groundwork seemingly carefully laid for even more. It just hasn’t stuck the landing, and while I’m mixing metaphors, we’re out of room for the show to pull it all together before the end in ways that we intuit will be dramatically satisfying.
May I end up eating all these words by the time S3E12 rolls the closing credits. But I’m not betting on it. Sigh.
posted by sockshaveholes at 3:46 PM on May 11, 2023 [7 favorites]
This whole season is confusing. They set up all the pieces at the end of S2 with that empire strikes back ending and then just let everyone run like disorganized cats in S3. So much arc potential… I… just can’t.
This weeks only gem was watching Jade’s face morph back into that absolutely blank “not judging you yet at the same time seeing every insecure and manipulative subtext you’re laying out; but also I kind of don’t care about your little ego world and subsequent machinations; I see your pathetic entirely without sympathy” as soon as Rupert showed up. It’s like watching the eyes of an uncaring universe watch humanity.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:18 PM on May 11, 2023 [16 favorites]
This weeks only gem was watching Jade’s face morph back into that absolutely blank “not judging you yet at the same time seeing every insecure and manipulative subtext you’re laying out; but also I kind of don’t care about your little ego world and subsequent machinations; I see your pathetic entirely without sympathy” as soon as Rupert showed up. It’s like watching the eyes of an uncaring universe watch humanity.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:18 PM on May 11, 2023 [16 favorites]
for those totally unfamiliar, what did you think about the music in the opening? Was it weird to have what (I imagine) most people would assume is something from musical theater as the score to a football match?
I haven't seen anything but the Nathan Lane movie and for me it was a bit jarring and weird, but this show uses weird musical cues often ("Prisencolinensinancusol", all right?) so it wasn't that far out of bounds.
so he'll do the next best thing and seduce her himself
My money is on Rupert buying out Nate’s favourite restaurant and fucking with it after that doesn’t work.
I still like Nate and I really hope we get an hour-long Nate episode that gives him some actual drama and redemption. But my money is on nothing happening at all and the series finale ends with Nate sitting in his West Ham office and wistfully watching Ted's retirement announcement on the TV. It really seems like they just won't take their foot off the brake there.
I'd be willing to bet one hundred dollars that the actress who plays Keeley had scheduling problems this past season.
I agree 100% and I wasn't sure if it was a scheduling thing or a general "weird COVID rules" thing. I wonder if the Nate storyline was constrained in the same way -- Nate could have had scenes with Ted or Roy or Will or Jamie, which would have been really interesting, and Rupert could have had scenes with Rebecca or Ted, which would have been interesting, but instead we mostly had occasional episodes of the Nate, Rupert, and Sometimes Jade show that didn't connect with Ted's story, much the same as the Keeley Show.
I liked this episode though, I did think Colin and Isaac worked. I didn't think Isaac was really 100% heroic here -- I think he had some discomfort and "Needed a little while" as Trent said. But he showed his true loyalty in the end.
Oh, and Beard is right, "Stairway to Heaven" is a glorified fingering exercise.
posted by mmoncur at 8:27 PM on May 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
I haven't seen anything but the Nathan Lane movie and for me it was a bit jarring and weird, but this show uses weird musical cues often ("Prisencolinensinancusol", all right?) so it wasn't that far out of bounds.
so he'll do the next best thing and seduce her himself
My money is on Rupert buying out Nate’s favourite restaurant and fucking with it after that doesn’t work.
I still like Nate and I really hope we get an hour-long Nate episode that gives him some actual drama and redemption. But my money is on nothing happening at all and the series finale ends with Nate sitting in his West Ham office and wistfully watching Ted's retirement announcement on the TV. It really seems like they just won't take their foot off the brake there.
I'd be willing to bet one hundred dollars that the actress who plays Keeley had scheduling problems this past season.
I agree 100% and I wasn't sure if it was a scheduling thing or a general "weird COVID rules" thing. I wonder if the Nate storyline was constrained in the same way -- Nate could have had scenes with Ted or Roy or Will or Jamie, which would have been really interesting, and Rupert could have had scenes with Rebecca or Ted, which would have been interesting, but instead we mostly had occasional episodes of the Nate, Rupert, and Sometimes Jade show that didn't connect with Ted's story, much the same as the Keeley Show.
I liked this episode though, I did think Colin and Isaac worked. I didn't think Isaac was really 100% heroic here -- I think he had some discomfort and "Needed a little while" as Trent said. But he showed his true loyalty in the end.
Oh, and Beard is right, "Stairway to Heaven" is a glorified fingering exercise.
posted by mmoncur at 8:27 PM on May 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
mmoncur: "Oh, and Beard is right, "Stairway to Heaven" is a glorified fingering exercise."
It is, but “In My Time of Dying” and “Traveling Riverside Blues” aren't, and both of them wipe the floor with the “Hotel California” solo or anything else you can throw out there. If you're gonna argue against Page, better toss in a candidate from left field like, I don't know, Mark Knopfler or something.
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:07 PM on May 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
It is, but “In My Time of Dying” and “Traveling Riverside Blues” aren't, and both of them wipe the floor with the “Hotel California” solo or anything else you can throw out there. If you're gonna argue against Page, better toss in a candidate from left field like, I don't know, Mark Knopfler or something.
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:07 PM on May 11, 2023 [8 favorites]
Done, I accept your compromise and Mark Knopfler wins.
posted by mmoncur at 12:13 AM on May 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by mmoncur at 12:13 AM on May 12, 2023 [6 favorites]
I always enjoy Will Kitman's scenes: he is, at the same time, a deliberately minor character (witness his name) and also a kind of linchpin and barometer for Richmond FC's success.
Will's position at the moment, is similar to Nate's in the same role back in S1: a back stage figure who sees all and becomes wise.
posted by rongorongo at 2:49 AM on May 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
Will's position at the moment, is similar to Nate's in the same role back in S1: a back stage figure who sees all and becomes wise.
posted by rongorongo at 2:49 AM on May 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
I dunno what a "chaos bisexual" happens to be but as a late-in-life bisexual, I love the sound of it.
posted by Bella Donna at 4:40 AM on May 12, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 4:40 AM on May 12, 2023 [8 favorites]
Also, I will just take whatever the show dishes out even as the Nate parts make me cranky. I refuse to fast forward through any part of it. The suffering is real and so is my loyalty.
posted by Bella Donna at 4:41 AM on May 12, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 4:41 AM on May 12, 2023 [9 favorites]
“it’s worthwhile meeting you”, “my name is actually Jaded, my mom named me after..”, “you’re from south Poland, right?” - I think Jade is Rupert’s daughter!
posted by meijusa at 7:27 AM on May 12, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by meijusa at 7:27 AM on May 12, 2023 [7 favorites]
If you're gonna argue against Page, better toss in a candidate from left field like, I don't know, Mark Knopfler or something.
I was with Beard in that argument, but not his choices. How about Rosetta Tharpe or BB King, or Prince? So many guitarists better and more interesting than Page to choose.
posted by LooseFilter at 7:30 AM on May 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
I was with Beard in that argument, but not his choices. How about Rosetta Tharpe or BB King, or Prince? So many guitarists better and more interesting than Page to choose.
posted by LooseFilter at 7:30 AM on May 12, 2023 [4 favorites]
I was with Beard in that argument, but not his choices. How about Rosetta Tharpe or BB King, or Prince? So many guitarists better and more interesting than Page to choose.
They then asked Rebecca who the best classic rock guitarist was, which I presume the previous argument had been about. Tharpe was too early, King was blues, and Prince was too late.
posted by Etrigan at 7:53 AM on May 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
They then asked Rebecca who the best classic rock guitarist was, which I presume the previous argument had been about. Tharpe was too early, King was blues, and Prince was too late.
posted by Etrigan at 7:53 AM on May 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
They then asked Rebecca who the best classic rock guitarist was, which I presume the previous argument had been about.
My personal pick would be Dick Dale but the obvious correct answer is Hendrix and it’s not even close.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 10:47 AM on May 12, 2023 [7 favorites]
My personal pick would be Dick Dale but the obvious correct answer is Hendrix and it’s not even close.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 10:47 AM on May 12, 2023 [7 favorites]
Whatever happens I think they'll bring Dr Sharon back. Maybe it's time for her to come up for air after all that sex she was having when she wasn't having Zoom sessions with Ted. But hopefully not like a 21st Century Mary Poppins who rides in on her bike, fixes everything and leaves with an enigmatic smile.
posted by readery at 11:15 AM on May 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by readery at 11:15 AM on May 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
I LOVED DR. SHARON!
posted by Bella Donna at 11:21 AM on May 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 11:21 AM on May 12, 2023 [5 favorites]
I liked this episode but didn’t love it - and some of the liking could just be a reflection of how much I didn’t like the last one, so the fact that this was better than that is making me feel more positively about it than if I was judging it all on its own. I’ve been watching Succession regularly, and I’ve found that I don’t really care about the business plots anymore - they all seem to be circling the drain of sameness - but I can’t stop watching because of how drawn in I am to the relationships. And with Ted Lasso, I feel the opposite - at this point all of the relationships feel forced and running in dumb circles, but I stay because sometimes there’s soccer.
I loved Roy’s speech, though. And even when his character is inconsistent, they still consistently give him things to say and do that make him always worth watching.
Right now, though, my biggest issue is, why is Trent Crimm there? Ostensibly he’s writing a book about the team. I understood why he would promise Colin not to out him when he accidentally caught him at the restaurant. That was a really good and thoughtful moment. But now? Now it’s out. Maybe not in public, but Colin just came out to the team, with Trent present, and as a result of that Isaac had a public meltdown and attacked a fan. It’s not a complete secret now, and it directly affects the team’s performance . No good journalist can witness that and not include it in a book about the team. But no one said anything about it to him or about him. And I’m sure that means it won’t be explored or mentioned at all. But if not, why is Trent there? Just to be a mascot who can stand there and look wise in reaction shots? It’s just another sloppy use of a character who used to be great and make sense.
posted by Mchelly at 2:23 PM on May 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
I loved Roy’s speech, though. And even when his character is inconsistent, they still consistently give him things to say and do that make him always worth watching.
Right now, though, my biggest issue is, why is Trent Crimm there? Ostensibly he’s writing a book about the team. I understood why he would promise Colin not to out him when he accidentally caught him at the restaurant. That was a really good and thoughtful moment. But now? Now it’s out. Maybe not in public, but Colin just came out to the team, with Trent present, and as a result of that Isaac had a public meltdown and attacked a fan. It’s not a complete secret now, and it directly affects the team’s performance . No good journalist can witness that and not include it in a book about the team. But no one said anything about it to him or about him. And I’m sure that means it won’t be explored or mentioned at all. But if not, why is Trent there? Just to be a mascot who can stand there and look wise in reaction shots? It’s just another sloppy use of a character who used to be great and make sense.
posted by Mchelly at 2:23 PM on May 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
Why is Trent there?
OMG it's like you don't even want to see his hair every week. What is wrong with you?!?
Changing lanes -
I am extremely intrigued by the Jade is Rupert's daughter speculation!
posted by Gyre,Gimble,Wabe, Esq. at 2:29 PM on May 12, 2023 [13 favorites]
OMG it's like you don't even want to see his hair every week. What is wrong with you?!?
Changing lanes -
I am extremely intrigued by the Jade is Rupert's daughter speculation!
posted by Gyre,Gimble,Wabe, Esq. at 2:29 PM on May 12, 2023 [13 favorites]
That will be all the funnier when Rupert inevitably comes on to Jade....
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:10 PM on May 12, 2023
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:10 PM on May 12, 2023
I'm not going back through previous episode threads to see if these have been shared already, but here's the un-paywalled first part of an article from last September addressing the delays around Season 3, along with a second article that uses the first as its main source. You do have to wonder if Lawrence could have kept the writer's room more on course.
posted by Sweetie Darling at 5:18 PM on May 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Sweetie Darling at 5:18 PM on May 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
I was wondering if Rupert had encountered Jade in the past, perhaps if she had a previous career as a sex worker, which I expect Nate would take poorly. Mostly it was the different name that got me wondering. Nate's entirely storyline this season is such a disjointed muddle. Episode 1: he's the counterpoint to Ted, managing with belittling abuse, being grumpy at the press, where Ted is being Ted and getting everyone laughing at his self-effacing jokes. Rest of season: look at socially awkward Nate will he ever find love and could he do so without being weirdly 'rom-coms are kinda creepy' about it? Trying and failing to recreate the Diamond Dogs experience but without any empathy for others, etc etc. It's like we're veering wildly between "redemption storyline" and "this guy is still an ass" but there's no callback to the ways he was an abusive manager to his football team (remember football? this is a show ostensibly about football) and so that's sitting there like one of the turds in the redemption story punchbowl. It could be good! It could be interesting! There's a lot of potential to do interesting things with that character. But no.
We started with an overture? From La Cage? Okay, I assume this is not just a gay episode, it's an EXTRA EXTRA gay episode. Musically taking us from Overture to "I Am What I Am" is a musical journey that I'm not sure they sold me on, though, with the actual episode in between the songs.
It feels like they pulled a bootlegger turn on the plot with Colin and McAdoo, maybe in post-production or something. In my experience, someone who goes ballistic at that kind of slur has got some strong issues going on to elicit that level of response - could be he's got unaddressed issues with his own sexuality (boring!), could be he's got something like "Colin reminds me of my gay mate years ago who got beat up and I felt helpless so I'm going to process this by beating this fool now that I'm a big beefy dude" (feels more in keeping with this show) or *something*. Showing up on Colin's doorstep saying "dude, you didn't trust me?" really feels like they changed it up and did so in a way that let them reshoot with a two-person interior scene instead of having to address the many-people-exterior-stadium scene. Roy is absolutely the guy to have talk to someone about unaddressed rage, and I'm hoping we get something to explain what McAdoo's emotionally fraught issues are about otherwise it's another instance of "characters act this way because the plot requires them to and not because of characterization"
But in 2023, thank you for not showing Ted and the rest of the team having a Very Special Episode where they have a whole big thing about Colin. Particularly after we just had several episodes of a bisexual trashfire of a relationship that was handled in a very matter-of-fact fashion.
posted by rmd1023 at 5:40 AM on May 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
We started with an overture? From La Cage? Okay, I assume this is not just a gay episode, it's an EXTRA EXTRA gay episode. Musically taking us from Overture to "I Am What I Am" is a musical journey that I'm not sure they sold me on, though, with the actual episode in between the songs.
It feels like they pulled a bootlegger turn on the plot with Colin and McAdoo, maybe in post-production or something. In my experience, someone who goes ballistic at that kind of slur has got some strong issues going on to elicit that level of response - could be he's got unaddressed issues with his own sexuality (boring!), could be he's got something like "Colin reminds me of my gay mate years ago who got beat up and I felt helpless so I'm going to process this by beating this fool now that I'm a big beefy dude" (feels more in keeping with this show) or *something*. Showing up on Colin's doorstep saying "dude, you didn't trust me?" really feels like they changed it up and did so in a way that let them reshoot with a two-person interior scene instead of having to address the many-people-exterior-stadium scene. Roy is absolutely the guy to have talk to someone about unaddressed rage, and I'm hoping we get something to explain what McAdoo's emotionally fraught issues are about otherwise it's another instance of "characters act this way because the plot requires them to and not because of characterization"
But in 2023, thank you for not showing Ted and the rest of the team having a Very Special Episode where they have a whole big thing about Colin. Particularly after we just had several episodes of a bisexual trashfire of a relationship that was handled in a very matter-of-fact fashion.
posted by rmd1023 at 5:40 AM on May 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
In my experience, someone who goes ballistic at that kind of slur has got some strong issues going on to elicit that level of response
My thought too. I was expecting something more along the lines of, “I couldn’t remember if I’d used ‘gay’ as an insult in the locker room before and how much that must have hurt you”, or “ I was thinking about how many times we’ve heard that from fans and I didn’t stop it.” McAdoo is a fierce protector. I could see him feeling ashamed of himself if he’d failed in that way.
posted by Silvery Fish at 5:58 AM on May 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
My thought too. I was expecting something more along the lines of, “I couldn’t remember if I’d used ‘gay’ as an insult in the locker room before and how much that must have hurt you”, or “ I was thinking about how many times we’ve heard that from fans and I didn’t stop it.” McAdoo is a fierce protector. I could see him feeling ashamed of himself if he’d failed in that way.
posted by Silvery Fish at 5:58 AM on May 13, 2023 [6 favorites]
If I’m right about the Jade/Rupert family connection, I think Rupert knows or realized when he saw her. Perhaps she looks like her mom. If he didn’t know or suspect, he wouldn’t have guessed south Poland unless he had her investigated as a person close to Nate.
posted by meijusa at 8:48 AM on May 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by meijusa at 8:48 AM on May 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Poll done by The Tedcast. They've also dropped an emergency "people don't like the show any more" podcast (direct mp3 link), but I probably won't get to that until Monday at work.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:48 AM on May 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:48 AM on May 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
I think Rupert likes to try to impress women by attempting to locate their accents. I don’t believe there is any family connection between him and Jade.
posted by gnuhavenpier at 4:59 PM on May 13, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by gnuhavenpier at 4:59 PM on May 13, 2023 [8 favorites]
I have liked this season better than most people here I think, but every episode since Sunflowers has been a cloying Very Special Episode clunker. I think the main problem is centred on clumsily trying to make the locker room a paragon of Healthy Masculinity. Don't get me wrong, I'm HUGELY in favour of showing Healthy Masculinity on television. But Season 1 and Season 2 were able to do that gracefully and very impactfully (e.g. Man City) without the guys doing everything but pointing at the camera and saying "Now you know, AND KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE. GO JOE!!"
And well, the Keely and Nate plot lines have been weak and meandering as well. Keely's had moments, but has stalled.
I think he will broadly decide that Ted is closer than Rupert to having figured out what it means to be a man
I think this is right because this is what happened with Trent. It's why I never had the problem that everyone else did with him telling Ted that Nate fed him the quote: yes it may have violated journalistic ethics, but Ted Lasso has demonstrated to him that there isn't much value in those kinds of ethics if they force you to tear down a man like Ted. The arc of being An Enemy Of Ted is realizing that he was never actually doing the thing that made you think he was your enemy, and then becoming his ally.
The thing with the resolution of the Nate Plot is that everything is signalling that Nate is a legitimately good coach, so he's not going to slide back onto Ted's staff. All of which is to say that all signals point to the season ending with Ted going back to America (and taking Beard with him?) and Nate become the AFC Richmond manager.
posted by dry white toast at 10:08 PM on May 13, 2023
And well, the Keely and Nate plot lines have been weak and meandering as well. Keely's had moments, but has stalled.
I think he will broadly decide that Ted is closer than Rupert to having figured out what it means to be a man
I think this is right because this is what happened with Trent. It's why I never had the problem that everyone else did with him telling Ted that Nate fed him the quote: yes it may have violated journalistic ethics, but Ted Lasso has demonstrated to him that there isn't much value in those kinds of ethics if they force you to tear down a man like Ted. The arc of being An Enemy Of Ted is realizing that he was never actually doing the thing that made you think he was your enemy, and then becoming his ally.
The thing with the resolution of the Nate Plot is that everything is signalling that Nate is a legitimately good coach, so he's not going to slide back onto Ted's staff. All of which is to say that all signals point to the season ending with Ted going back to America (and taking Beard with him?) and Nate become the AFC Richmond manager.
posted by dry white toast at 10:08 PM on May 13, 2023
and taking Beard with him
I’ll bet you pounds to pomfrey cakes Beard is going to stay in London from now on. Couldn’t tell you exactly why, but it feels like he’s both very frustrated by and somewhat in love with the place.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 11:02 PM on May 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
I’ll bet you pounds to pomfrey cakes Beard is going to stay in London from now on. Couldn’t tell you exactly why, but it feels like he’s both very frustrated by and somewhat in love with the place.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 11:02 PM on May 13, 2023 [5 favorites]
The thing with the resolution of the Nate Plot is that everything is signalling that Nate is a legitimately good coach, so he's not going to slide back onto Ted's staff. All of which is to say that all signals point to the season ending with Ted going back to America (and taking Beard with him?) and Nate become the AFC Richmond manager.
Ok, that would completely undermine Ted's ethos that the most important thing about coaching is not wins and losses, but helping athletes become "the best versions of themselves."
We have never seen Nate do that as a coach. Ever. We absolutely have seen Roy doing that with Jamie and Isaac both this season and last. And Nate's been a coach longer than Roy has! And it's more than a little late to start a "Nate learns to nurture athletes as human beings, not cogs in his brilliant strategies" storyline. To make Nate Ted's successor as head coach would absolutely be a grim admission that wins/losses are the only thing that matters.
posted by creepygirl at 12:03 AM on May 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
Ok, that would completely undermine Ted's ethos that the most important thing about coaching is not wins and losses, but helping athletes become "the best versions of themselves."
We have never seen Nate do that as a coach. Ever. We absolutely have seen Roy doing that with Jamie and Isaac both this season and last. And Nate's been a coach longer than Roy has! And it's more than a little late to start a "Nate learns to nurture athletes as human beings, not cogs in his brilliant strategies" storyline. To make Nate Ted's successor as head coach would absolutely be a grim admission that wins/losses are the only thing that matters.
posted by creepygirl at 12:03 AM on May 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
I was only half paying attention the first time, so I couldn’t figure out why people were saying the “I am” was offscreen because I was sure I actually heard what I now know was implied.
Say what you will about Ted’s speech after but the punchline at the end - “I’m sorry, that was an American Football reference, that was a fumble on my part” - is a great line
posted by TwoWordReview at 2:00 AM on May 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
Say what you will about Ted’s speech after but the punchline at the end - “I’m sorry, that was an American Football reference, that was a fumble on my part” - is a great line
posted by TwoWordReview at 2:00 AM on May 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
I’m also intrigued by the “Jade is Rupert’s daughter” theory. Thinking through that lens , it may have been deliberate that Jade has barely uttered a word since we’ve met her, but then Rupert nails her accent after 2 sentences and we’re thinking “Huh, I didn’t even notice she had a non-British accent”. It’s probably too precise to be that Rupert is legitimately good at identifying accents.
posted by TwoWordReview at 2:15 AM on May 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by TwoWordReview at 2:15 AM on May 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
I noticed she had an Eastern European accent, might be hearing it with an American ear versus a British ear?
posted by ellieBOA at 5:05 AM on May 14, 2023
posted by ellieBOA at 5:05 AM on May 14, 2023
It felt like they played her accent up in this episode just for this line to work. She really didn't have a noticeable non-UK accent before, not to my ear.
posted by crossoverman at 5:45 PM on May 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by crossoverman at 5:45 PM on May 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
Ok, that would completely undermine Ted's ethos that the most important thing about coaching is not wins and losses, but helping athletes become "the best versions of themselves." We have never seen Nate do that as a coach. Ever. We absolutely have seen Roy doing that with Jamie and Isaac both this season and last. And Nate's been a coach longer than Roy has!
This this this in regards to Nate's ability as a coach. He's a brilliant strategist, but at some point, the pieces he relies on for his strategy are going to stop working because he doesn't have Ted's ability to hone the player. Of course, this late in the season, it makes no sense for there to be a sudden meltdown. We'll likely see it happen in some season finale rematch between West Ham and Richmond.
This goes toward one of Trent's main reasons for being in the Richmond club this season, which was underlined by his excited utterances a couple episodes ago, the Ted Lasso Total Football strategy. Now that it's hit its final supreme form and will clobber West Ham, despite Nate's brilliance, will show us that Nate isn't a "total" coach so to speak. It would make a narrative sense for Ted to enter in S1, episode one, as this guy who appears to know nothing about football (okay, he doesn't) but his knowledge of players is expertise. That, when finally melding with an understanding of football, leads to Ted leaving the UK considered an incredible football coach - probably lauded in Trent's book.
The lasting question for Nate will probably be whether he understands this is his weakness or not, and how to start to adopt Ted's strategy of focusing on the player. And like everything Nate, it feels like they're going to have to pull off quite the magical feat to do so convincingly for everyone watching.
posted by Atreides at 7:34 AM on May 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
This this this in regards to Nate's ability as a coach. He's a brilliant strategist, but at some point, the pieces he relies on for his strategy are going to stop working because he doesn't have Ted's ability to hone the player. Of course, this late in the season, it makes no sense for there to be a sudden meltdown. We'll likely see it happen in some season finale rematch between West Ham and Richmond.
This goes toward one of Trent's main reasons for being in the Richmond club this season, which was underlined by his excited utterances a couple episodes ago, the Ted Lasso Total Football strategy. Now that it's hit its final supreme form and will clobber West Ham, despite Nate's brilliance, will show us that Nate isn't a "total" coach so to speak. It would make a narrative sense for Ted to enter in S1, episode one, as this guy who appears to know nothing about football (okay, he doesn't) but his knowledge of players is expertise. That, when finally melding with an understanding of football, leads to Ted leaving the UK considered an incredible football coach - probably lauded in Trent's book.
The lasting question for Nate will probably be whether he understands this is his weakness or not, and how to start to adopt Ted's strategy of focusing on the player. And like everything Nate, it feels like they're going to have to pull off quite the magical feat to do so convincingly for everyone watching.
posted by Atreides at 7:34 AM on May 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
Back for more of "I'm several weeks behind and apparently watching a different show from most of you!"
We watched this one and the next one last night, so I'm trying to keep things straight in my head, but...
Loved the Nate stuff here, as has been the case for a while now. I'm intrigued by the "Jade is Rupert's daughter" idea, and maybe they'll go there with it, but what I saw was Rupert judging Jade in that super-posh, outwardly-charming way, both Nate and Jade clocking that immediately and responding in different ways - Nate by trying to spin things slightly towards Rupert's approval (emphasizing "my girlfriend" and omitting that Jade is a hostess) and Jade by swerving right into the skid, as it were, saying "I'm a hostess there," as well as the "short for Jaded" bit and, of course, "It's worthwhile to meet you," which is so fucking devastating and I love it.
Rupert's "amateur dialectologist" is impressive on the one hand, of course, and also reads a bit to someone of about my age (or Jason Sudeikis' age, though he's about five years older than me) as a shout to Wayne's World and the "I was born in Kowloon Bay!" bit, in which case it definitely appears like he's the rich, powerful, suave older guy flirting with her. But I think the more accurate read on "amateur dialectologist" is "I'm very good at knowing what background you come from" and that, in his universe, being a Polish immigrant is a few strikes against you in the class standings. I'm not sure whether Nate caught that or not - Nate isn't from Rupert's world, is from a family of immigrants himself, etc. But Rupert is judging Jade here and judging her harshly, hence calling her "Kate" later, an absolute power-play from someone who definitely remembered her real name.
Nate is insecure at heart, though, so I think it took until the scene at Bones & Honey for this to really click for him, that Rupert was not just philandering, but saying "let me show you the level you should be playing at, here, have a woman I find acceptable," and Nate just couldn't with that shit. There was a lot of brilliant acting from Nick Mohammed in that last scene with Jade, which conveyed both "I just gazed into the yawning moral chasm in which I fucked this up" and "I'm so sorry that motherfuckers think they can just dismiss you out of hand like that." I was blown away.
The reveal on where Isaac was coming from was well-handled enough, though it still makes Colin's sexuality all about Isaac, which isn't a great look, especially when Colin is trying repeatedly to talk to him about it before then. The video games scene later was great, I thought (a little cringey but also kind of honest about the questions Isaac would have?) I have no real opinion about Rebecca's speech to Roy - whatever Roy's deal is this season has been, to me, the one real undercooked bit, relying on telling over showing. So Rebecca's speech didn't feel particularly "earned" but at least it points to us getting out of the weeds with all that? Roy at the press conference was amazing, and that's how I like this character, so whatever gets us there is fine by me.
And the "Denver Broncos" speech, well, worked about as well for me as it possibly could have. Yes, the metaphor is silly and inapt verging on offensively so - which the show immediately calls out to hilarious effect, but the idea of "we don't just accept you by ignoring this part of you, we accept you by celebrating along with you" is meaningful. This is a show where one's team winning matters, and the image of the kid celebrating his team's Superbowl victories alone two years running is a solid one. Super low-stakes in comparison to what Colin is going through, but it worked for me.
posted by Navelgazer at 8:22 AM on May 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
We watched this one and the next one last night, so I'm trying to keep things straight in my head, but...
Loved the Nate stuff here, as has been the case for a while now. I'm intrigued by the "Jade is Rupert's daughter" idea, and maybe they'll go there with it, but what I saw was Rupert judging Jade in that super-posh, outwardly-charming way, both Nate and Jade clocking that immediately and responding in different ways - Nate by trying to spin things slightly towards Rupert's approval (emphasizing "my girlfriend" and omitting that Jade is a hostess) and Jade by swerving right into the skid, as it were, saying "I'm a hostess there," as well as the "short for Jaded" bit and, of course, "It's worthwhile to meet you," which is so fucking devastating and I love it.
Rupert's "amateur dialectologist" is impressive on the one hand, of course, and also reads a bit to someone of about my age (or Jason Sudeikis' age, though he's about five years older than me) as a shout to Wayne's World and the "I was born in Kowloon Bay!" bit, in which case it definitely appears like he's the rich, powerful, suave older guy flirting with her. But I think the more accurate read on "amateur dialectologist" is "I'm very good at knowing what background you come from" and that, in his universe, being a Polish immigrant is a few strikes against you in the class standings. I'm not sure whether Nate caught that or not - Nate isn't from Rupert's world, is from a family of immigrants himself, etc. But Rupert is judging Jade here and judging her harshly, hence calling her "Kate" later, an absolute power-play from someone who definitely remembered her real name.
Nate is insecure at heart, though, so I think it took until the scene at Bones & Honey for this to really click for him, that Rupert was not just philandering, but saying "let me show you the level you should be playing at, here, have a woman I find acceptable," and Nate just couldn't with that shit. There was a lot of brilliant acting from Nick Mohammed in that last scene with Jade, which conveyed both "I just gazed into the yawning moral chasm in which I fucked this up" and "I'm so sorry that motherfuckers think they can just dismiss you out of hand like that." I was blown away.
The reveal on where Isaac was coming from was well-handled enough, though it still makes Colin's sexuality all about Isaac, which isn't a great look, especially when Colin is trying repeatedly to talk to him about it before then. The video games scene later was great, I thought (a little cringey but also kind of honest about the questions Isaac would have?) I have no real opinion about Rebecca's speech to Roy - whatever Roy's deal is this season has been, to me, the one real undercooked bit, relying on telling over showing. So Rebecca's speech didn't feel particularly "earned" but at least it points to us getting out of the weeds with all that? Roy at the press conference was amazing, and that's how I like this character, so whatever gets us there is fine by me.
And the "Denver Broncos" speech, well, worked about as well for me as it possibly could have. Yes, the metaphor is silly and inapt verging on offensively so - which the show immediately calls out to hilarious effect, but the idea of "we don't just accept you by ignoring this part of you, we accept you by celebrating along with you" is meaningful. This is a show where one's team winning matters, and the image of the kid celebrating his team's Superbowl victories alone two years running is a solid one. Super low-stakes in comparison to what Colin is going through, but it worked for me.
posted by Navelgazer at 8:22 AM on May 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
> Right now, though, my biggest issue is, why is Trent Crimm there? Ostensibly he’s writing a book about the team.
the show ted lasso is trent crimm's book. that's why he's there. he's writing the book that is the show. we know this, because in the episode where they rolled out total football trent gave a speech that's the thesis statement for the series as a whole.
if you get rid of all the plotlines this season that either could not be in trent crimm's book because he doesn't know the people involved or would not be in the book because they don't have anything to do with the rest of the book, you might have a not-bad season.
i'm glad i'm not the only one who's given in to the impulse to pound that fast-forward button every time nate is onscreen. i'm tempted to do the same to keeley scenes, except every so often one of those matters to the actual plot of the show (i.e. the stuff that might find its way into trent's book).
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 9:36 AM on May 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
the show ted lasso is trent crimm's book. that's why he's there. he's writing the book that is the show. we know this, because in the episode where they rolled out total football trent gave a speech that's the thesis statement for the series as a whole.
if you get rid of all the plotlines this season that either could not be in trent crimm's book because he doesn't know the people involved or would not be in the book because they don't have anything to do with the rest of the book, you might have a not-bad season.
i'm glad i'm not the only one who's given in to the impulse to pound that fast-forward button every time nate is onscreen. i'm tempted to do the same to keeley scenes, except every so often one of those matters to the actual plot of the show (i.e. the stuff that might find its way into trent's book).
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 9:36 AM on May 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
also there's going to be a scene in the last episode (maybe in the middle of a flash-forward montage showing where all the characters end up) with beard in the background reading trent's book. or a shot of him putting it on a bookshelf next to his well-loved well-annotated copy of inverting the pyramid.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 9:38 AM on May 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 9:38 AM on May 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
I like clocktower's Isaac headcanon and would read that fic.
I assumed everything Jade told Rupert was either a lie or enough of a performance to be functionally a lie.
I was hoping that Nate would show up at the "guys at the pub" with Jade after bailing on Rupert. I mean, make some social connections that aren't with your dick, dude. That would have shown some Actual Growth.
I apparently am not picking up what they're trying to put down with Roy this season, because I see no arc, just occasional "oh, shit, we need to do something with Roy" bits or using him for comic relief.
posted by DebetEsse at 11:32 AM on October 31, 2023 [3 favorites]
I assumed everything Jade told Rupert was either a lie or enough of a performance to be functionally a lie.
I was hoping that Nate would show up at the "guys at the pub" with Jade after bailing on Rupert. I mean, make some social connections that aren't with your dick, dude. That would have shown some Actual Growth.
I apparently am not picking up what they're trying to put down with Roy this season, because I see no arc, just occasional "oh, shit, we need to do something with Roy" bits or using him for comic relief.
posted by DebetEsse at 11:32 AM on October 31, 2023 [3 favorites]
I noticed she had an Eastern European accent, might be hearing it with an American ear versus a British ear?
Neither of my Canadian ears did, although this is her sixth episode and I doubt she’s spoken a hundred words over the previous year and a half of broadcasts.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:13 AM on November 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
Neither of my Canadian ears did, although this is her sixth episode and I doubt she’s spoken a hundred words over the previous year and a half of broadcasts.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:13 AM on November 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
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Last week when Ted and Beard and Ted's kid are sitting outside the pub and the busker starts singing Hey Jude, my wife turned to me and said "oh this is sweet because Paul McCartney wrote this song for Lennon's son etc."
So when, right after that, coach beard starts telling that exact same story directly to the kid, I was disappointed. Something I always loved about this show is that it trusted its audience. It treated us with the same respect the characters treated each other with. It assumed that we were smart enough to get it, to pick up what it was subtly putting down.
This week we had at least three separate after-school special scenes of people telling rather than showing: Rebecca straightening out Roy, Ted's really dumb story about the Broncos fan, and Roy's horrible, emotionally manipulative story about the couple who lost the baby. None of those felt natural. None of them felt right. They all felt like they were trying to pull the same emotional stunt that we got when Ted bested Rupert at darts. That was a good speech, because it gave us insight into Ted and also some backstory that would drive much of his character's arc over the next couple seasons.
But those speeches in today's episode? Horrible. First year writing students' first attempts at creating emotional beats. Out of character, pedantic, manipulative, and probably worst of all, not adding anything to either the scene or the overall story. Like they're just ticking off boxes to ensure that they finish plot points before the season ends.
I don't know what happened this year, but it sure seems like the writers room lost its way. And like a good dad, I'm not mad. I'm just disappointed. I'll finish the show, but oof, I kind of wish they had quit while they were ahead.
posted by nushustu at 9:24 PM on May 9, 2023 [5 favorites]