Ted Lasso: International Break
May 16, 2023 10:00 PM - Season 3, Episode 10 - Subscribe
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Richmond is on a 10 game streak. Nate is out at West Ham--quit or fired? Keeley loses her VC funding. Everyone takes a break for international games. Van Damne is paired against Dani, who becomes a scary-ass, nose-annihilating enemy. Sam isn't in the game, because Edwin Akufo is back, bribed them to not take him, and now is screwing over Sam's restaurant too. Akufo also wants to start some kind of rich superleague, inviting Rupert and Rebecca to join it. Roy gets some more colorful clothes and has an epiphany. **** Well, I loved this. Epiphanies abound! The return of Phoebe and her new tie-dye kit! Rebecca's over the whole Rupert thing. Nate's dad is finally nice to him. AND ROY AND KEELEY ARE BACK TOGETHER!!!!
NATHAN'S FIRED!!!! Oh, he says he quit. Jade flies off to Poland ("You can help me and my family screw in light bulbs..." no, Jade has NO sense of humor), leaving him to mope at his mom's house and play violin. His dad just wanted him to be happy.
Looks like KJPR has also been closed...without her knowledge. Way to deliver news late and blame it on others, Jack.
Phoebe wants to celebrate Uncle's Day, by inviting "best friend" Jamie over and giving him a red, orange, yellow ("ROY," get it?) shirt, which he duly wears. And picks up after he throws it in the street.
Roy on Phoebe: "She might be an old soul, but she's a proper fucking dweeb, isn't she?"
THE COLORED SHIRT. Jamie paying to swear.
The return of Edwin, also bringing along a food blogger.
"Pinky Dick!"
"It is nice to meet you. Edwin has told me awful things about you."
"It is nice to put a name to such an ugly, horrible face."
Higgins on the Willy Wonka factory: "I hate to break it to you, Rebecca, is that those children are dead."
Keeley has "the Midas shits." Mae: "Shit helps things grow, love."
ROY WEARS COLORS. AT WORK.
Roy can't actually leave the shirt behind. Good uncle.
There's a brief encounter with That Teacher again: "I like your T-shirt. You off to protest the Vietnam war?"..."Smooth move, fuckwitch."
BARBARA WEARS JUICY ON HER BUTT. "I like clothes that say the truth."
Rebecca on Edwin's owners meeting: "How could I miss the chance to have a bunch of old men speak directly at my chest?"
Rupert's had to replace his secretary. "And your fecalist emailed the results. Two thumbs up, as expected!"
Jamie wears 24 in his match for Sam, awwww.
Rebecca's speech on loving football and not screwing over poorer fans is beautiful. Also includes a story about young Rupert being beaten up by a guard...then buying the team and GIVING THE GUARD A RAISE... DAMN.
DID EDWIN JUST THROW FOOD AT EVERYONE??!?! Apparently, yes.
ROY'S APOLOGY!!!! HE LOVES HER!!!!
How much did Jack give you? Keeley writes on a Post-It because "this is how they do it in the movies." Rebecca has that sitting around in cash.
ROY IN KEELEY'S PINK BATHROBE, UNASHAMED.
Keeley bought Barbara a snowglobe. "I only buy a snowglobe when I leave a job." BARBARA WANTS TO STAY?!?!
I see Phoebe's making a career of shirts? A darker dye job this time?
Beard: "I'm from Peoria."
"Did you draw that?" "No, Ted, that's a David Hockney." "Oh. Well, he's a talented little boy."
Yes, that's another biscuit delivery.
"I no longer care if I beat Rupert."
After Rebecca spit-takes in Ted's face: "As long as none of that tree piss actually gets in my mouth, I'm okay with it."
Richmond is on a 10 game streak. Nate is out at West Ham--quit or fired? Keeley loses her VC funding. Everyone takes a break for international games. Van Damne is paired against Dani, who becomes a scary-ass, nose-annihilating enemy. Sam isn't in the game, because Edwin Akufo is back, bribed them to not take him, and now is screwing over Sam's restaurant too. Akufo also wants to start some kind of rich superleague, inviting Rupert and Rebecca to join it. Roy gets some more colorful clothes and has an epiphany. **** Well, I loved this. Epiphanies abound! The return of Phoebe and her new tie-dye kit! Rebecca's over the whole Rupert thing. Nate's dad is finally nice to him. AND ROY AND KEELEY ARE BACK TOGETHER!!!!
NATHAN'S FIRED!!!! Oh, he says he quit. Jade flies off to Poland ("You can help me and my family screw in light bulbs..." no, Jade has NO sense of humor), leaving him to mope at his mom's house and play violin. His dad just wanted him to be happy.
Looks like KJPR has also been closed...without her knowledge. Way to deliver news late and blame it on others, Jack.
Phoebe wants to celebrate Uncle's Day, by inviting "best friend" Jamie over and giving him a red, orange, yellow ("ROY," get it?) shirt, which he duly wears. And picks up after he throws it in the street.
Roy on Phoebe: "She might be an old soul, but she's a proper fucking dweeb, isn't she?"
THE COLORED SHIRT. Jamie paying to swear.
The return of Edwin, also bringing along a food blogger.
"Pinky Dick!"
"It is nice to meet you. Edwin has told me awful things about you."
"It is nice to put a name to such an ugly, horrible face."
Higgins on the Willy Wonka factory: "I hate to break it to you, Rebecca, is that those children are dead."
Keeley has "the Midas shits." Mae: "Shit helps things grow, love."
ROY WEARS COLORS. AT WORK.
Roy can't actually leave the shirt behind. Good uncle.
There's a brief encounter with That Teacher again: "I like your T-shirt. You off to protest the Vietnam war?"..."Smooth move, fuckwitch."
BARBARA WEARS JUICY ON HER BUTT. "I like clothes that say the truth."
Rebecca on Edwin's owners meeting: "How could I miss the chance to have a bunch of old men speak directly at my chest?"
Rupert's had to replace his secretary. "And your fecalist emailed the results. Two thumbs up, as expected!"
Jamie wears 24 in his match for Sam, awwww.
Rebecca's speech on loving football and not screwing over poorer fans is beautiful. Also includes a story about young Rupert being beaten up by a guard...then buying the team and GIVING THE GUARD A RAISE... DAMN.
DID EDWIN JUST THROW FOOD AT EVERYONE??!?! Apparently, yes.
ROY'S APOLOGY!!!! HE LOVES HER!!!!
How much did Jack give you? Keeley writes on a Post-It because "this is how they do it in the movies." Rebecca has that sitting around in cash.
ROY IN KEELEY'S PINK BATHROBE, UNASHAMED.
Keeley bought Barbara a snowglobe. "I only buy a snowglobe when I leave a job." BARBARA WANTS TO STAY?!?!
I see Phoebe's making a career of shirts? A darker dye job this time?
Beard: "I'm from Peoria."
"Did you draw that?" "No, Ted, that's a David Hockney." "Oh. Well, he's a talented little boy."
Yes, that's another biscuit delivery.
"I no longer care if I beat Rupert."
After Rebecca spit-takes in Ted's face: "As long as none of that tree piss actually gets in my mouth, I'm okay with it."
AND ROY AND KEELEY ARE BACK TOGETHER!!!!
I'm not sure about this. Keeley says that Rebecca even thinking about sleeping with Rupert would mean that she was at an emotional low point--and it's right at that point that we see Roy. Maybe it's just not-particularly-meaningful sex with an ex because Keeley's had a ridiculously hard couple of months. Sort of like Keeley sleeping with Jamie after their breakup in Season 1.
Rebecca: This did not resonate with me at all, because I never saw Rebecca as someone who wanted Rupert to come crawling back. The way I saw her was that she was furious that this man who hurt her kept being rewarded by the universe, and if the universe wasn't going to punish him, she would find a way to do it. It was a terrible plan that involved a lot of collateral damage to other people, and eventually she stopped wanting it because she realized that, (to paraphrase Roy Kent), she liked Keeley and Ted and Higgins and the players more than she hated Rupert. Not kissing Rupert (while he's married to someone she likes) is such a ridiculously low bar for a breakthrough and left me completely cold.
Jade leaving for Poland was hilarious to me, because I can read it as either
1) the writers flat-out admitting that she was always a plot device, not a person, and once the desired plot was achieved, she's gone because she has fuck-all to do with resolving Nate's Season 2 issues, or
2) Jade escaping control of the writers, deciding that this week's storyline was going to be dire, and taking extreme measures (leaving the country) in order to nope out of having to give some overwrought speech about Nate being a genius.
Things I liked:
Phoebe determining that Jamie is Roy's best friend, and Jamie choosing come to the uncle-party (present-in-hand), and abiding by Phoebe's swear-tax.
The school teacher berating herself after the conversation with Roy, something like, "'Sometimes I like a mess.' Good one, fuckwitch!"
Barbara deciding that she'd rather work for Keeley than for Jack, and the complicated snowglobe transactions that ensued as a result.
Keeley getting a scene with Mae (though I do wonder if that's related to Juno Temple's availability issues that were discussed in earlier threads).
Nate's note to Will, which put no pressure on Will to accept the apology. (If they'd started much earlier with stuff like this, I wouldn't be nearly so annoyed with the Nate storyline.)
That said, Rebecca needs to fire Rene like yesterday. He'll let anyone into the building.
posted by creepygirl at 11:37 PM on May 16, 2023 [7 favorites]
I'm not sure about this. Keeley says that Rebecca even thinking about sleeping with Rupert would mean that she was at an emotional low point--and it's right at that point that we see Roy. Maybe it's just not-particularly-meaningful sex with an ex because Keeley's had a ridiculously hard couple of months. Sort of like Keeley sleeping with Jamie after their breakup in Season 1.
Rebecca: This did not resonate with me at all, because I never saw Rebecca as someone who wanted Rupert to come crawling back. The way I saw her was that she was furious that this man who hurt her kept being rewarded by the universe, and if the universe wasn't going to punish him, she would find a way to do it. It was a terrible plan that involved a lot of collateral damage to other people, and eventually she stopped wanting it because she realized that, (to paraphrase Roy Kent), she liked Keeley and Ted and Higgins and the players more than she hated Rupert. Not kissing Rupert (while he's married to someone she likes) is such a ridiculously low bar for a breakthrough and left me completely cold.
Jade leaving for Poland was hilarious to me, because I can read it as either
1) the writers flat-out admitting that she was always a plot device, not a person, and once the desired plot was achieved, she's gone because she has fuck-all to do with resolving Nate's Season 2 issues, or
2) Jade escaping control of the writers, deciding that this week's storyline was going to be dire, and taking extreme measures (leaving the country) in order to nope out of having to give some overwrought speech about Nate being a genius.
Things I liked:
Phoebe determining that Jamie is Roy's best friend, and Jamie choosing come to the uncle-party (present-in-hand), and abiding by Phoebe's swear-tax.
The school teacher berating herself after the conversation with Roy, something like, "'Sometimes I like a mess.' Good one, fuckwitch!"
Barbara deciding that she'd rather work for Keeley than for Jack, and the complicated snowglobe transactions that ensued as a result.
Keeley getting a scene with Mae (though I do wonder if that's related to Juno Temple's availability issues that were discussed in earlier threads).
Nate's note to Will, which put no pressure on Will to accept the apology. (If they'd started much earlier with stuff like this, I wouldn't be nearly so annoyed with the Nate storyline.)
That said, Rebecca needs to fire Rene like yesterday. He'll let anyone into the building.
posted by creepygirl at 11:37 PM on May 16, 2023 [7 favorites]
I said to my partner that they could've cut 20 minutes from this episode without losing any dialogue. I'd never make them stick to 30 minutes, but the show is just so… pensive… sometimes.
Four good payoffs here. A bit clumsy in the execution, but I'm still glad they happened: Nate gets what he needed to hear from his dad, and delivers a heartfelt apology to Will (though it would've been nice for it to have happened on screen). Roy, I guess, realizes how far he's evolved (though it takes a brief conversation with Phoebe's teacher to make him realize it? hm?) and presumably is over his feelings of inferiority. Rebecca stops being intimidated in the old boys' clubs, and particularly around Rupert. And Keeley gets a nice moment with Barbara who, I think, heals most of the damage done to Keeley in this episode just by affirming that Keeley was a good boss and picking her over Jack.
There was a bit too much telling-not-showing here, but there was also plenty of good comedy. Jade's lightbulb joke thing was brilliant, and even more so when she played it straight, but I feel like 999/1000 people would've said “by the way, I was fucking with you” over their shoulder to their SO as they walked out. Jesus, they write her weird.
We clearly don't know the whole story about Nate's exit. If he left just because he felt uneasy about his boss trying to get him to philander, then this show has tripped over a loose extension cord in the hallway. But the under-explained exit of “corporate pixie dream girl” suggests something that will come to light in a week or two. I'm hoping it won't just be your standard #metoo thing — they did that on Master of None with Bobby Cannavale's character and it worked for me there they didn't really leave breadcrumbs for you, so it takes you by surprise. But, I mean, Rupert for ages has not been acting like someone who runs a workplace place that has a functioning HR department, so it would be weird if suddenly there were consequences for it.
I was certain that this episode would hit landmines. I didn't want Rebecca to even go to the meeting because I thought it was a trap — like Rupert would be absent, but the fact that the meeting took place would've hit the news and made all the owners in attendance look bad. (For those who aren't actual soccer fans: the European Super League was a major pie-in-the-face thing for the six Premier League teams involved, to the extent that they all changed their minds and apologized to their fans within a week of the initial announcement.)
And then I didn't trust Rebecca not to get drawn back into Rupert's (supposed?) charisma distortion field, but I'm glad they knew what they were doing. I also really liked Anthony Head's acting as Rebecca left the room — for the first time we see Rupert without his devious smirk, looking properly wounded and vulnerable, like the little boy that Rebecca can finally see him as.
posted by savetheclocktower at 11:51 PM on May 16, 2023 [10 favorites]
Four good payoffs here. A bit clumsy in the execution, but I'm still glad they happened: Nate gets what he needed to hear from his dad, and delivers a heartfelt apology to Will (though it would've been nice for it to have happened on screen). Roy, I guess, realizes how far he's evolved (though it takes a brief conversation with Phoebe's teacher to make him realize it? hm?) and presumably is over his feelings of inferiority. Rebecca stops being intimidated in the old boys' clubs, and particularly around Rupert. And Keeley gets a nice moment with Barbara who, I think, heals most of the damage done to Keeley in this episode just by affirming that Keeley was a good boss and picking her over Jack.
There was a bit too much telling-not-showing here, but there was also plenty of good comedy. Jade's lightbulb joke thing was brilliant, and even more so when she played it straight, but I feel like 999/1000 people would've said “by the way, I was fucking with you” over their shoulder to their SO as they walked out. Jesus, they write her weird.
We clearly don't know the whole story about Nate's exit. If he left just because he felt uneasy about his boss trying to get him to philander, then this show has tripped over a loose extension cord in the hallway. But the under-explained exit of “corporate pixie dream girl” suggests something that will come to light in a week or two. I'm hoping it won't just be your standard #metoo thing — they did that on Master of None with Bobby Cannavale's character and it worked for me there they didn't really leave breadcrumbs for you, so it takes you by surprise. But, I mean, Rupert for ages has not been acting like someone who runs a workplace place that has a functioning HR department, so it would be weird if suddenly there were consequences for it.
I was certain that this episode would hit landmines. I didn't want Rebecca to even go to the meeting because I thought it was a trap — like Rupert would be absent, but the fact that the meeting took place would've hit the news and made all the owners in attendance look bad. (For those who aren't actual soccer fans: the European Super League was a major pie-in-the-face thing for the six Premier League teams involved, to the extent that they all changed their minds and apologized to their fans within a week of the initial announcement.)
And then I didn't trust Rebecca not to get drawn back into Rupert's (supposed?) charisma distortion field, but I'm glad they knew what they were doing. I also really liked Anthony Head's acting as Rebecca left the room — for the first time we see Rupert without his devious smirk, looking properly wounded and vulnerable, like the little boy that Rebecca can finally see him as.
posted by savetheclocktower at 11:51 PM on May 16, 2023 [10 favorites]
Entire Nate situation is still problematic and badly written and the fly in my soup.
posted by Faintdreams at 2:25 AM on May 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Faintdreams at 2:25 AM on May 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
Also,
Danny is a Human cupcake so of course he can't compartmentalize.
Of course.
Genius.
posted by Faintdreams at 2:55 AM on May 17, 2023 [8 favorites]
Danny is a Human cupcake so of course he can't compartmentalize.
Of course.
Genius.
posted by Faintdreams at 2:55 AM on May 17, 2023 [8 favorites]
I know that Ted Lasso gets away with a lot of on-the-nose dialogue and people saying what they actually feel, and for the most part makes it work, but Nate's dad's whole speech was impossible to believe. Not consistent with anything we've seen of him so far, wildly unsubtle, therapy-speak, and the "genius" thing felt like writerly wish-fulfilment. (I mean, the whole speech did, but that part in particular).
I think it would have been more believable, interesting, and realistic for Lloyd to give Nate either no apology or the smallest, most "I never did anything wrong, I just tried to do what was best for you" apology, and for Nate to realize that he has to do the emotional work himself. Because, when you are trying to become a better person - when you are really trying to do that work on yourself - it doesn't just get handed to you, and it especially doesn't just get handed to you when you're in a depressive funk at your mom's house taking way too much advantage of her hospitality.
I liked most of the rest of the episode, but how on earth did the writers think that was a good idea?
posted by Jeanne at 3:58 AM on May 17, 2023 [25 favorites]
I think it would have been more believable, interesting, and realistic for Lloyd to give Nate either no apology or the smallest, most "I never did anything wrong, I just tried to do what was best for you" apology, and for Nate to realize that he has to do the emotional work himself. Because, when you are trying to become a better person - when you are really trying to do that work on yourself - it doesn't just get handed to you, and it especially doesn't just get handed to you when you're in a depressive funk at your mom's house taking way too much advantage of her hospitality.
I liked most of the rest of the episode, but how on earth did the writers think that was a good idea?
posted by Jeanne at 3:58 AM on May 17, 2023 [25 favorites]
Baby Rebecca!!! I wasn’t ready for that and frankly got a little teary-eyed.
I enjoyed this episode a lot, for many of the reasons stated above. As to Rebecca’s, Roy’s, and Nate’s “sudden” changes - I was ok with that. The entire episode was a whole lot of metanoias, and sometimes it happens like that, like a true seismic shift, where there has been a building series of subterranean movements until finally the tectonic plates move into a new position. The entire show - especially this season- is the magical realism version of personal change.
Rani Dojas is dark and sexy and funny and I was glad the actor got an opportunity to do something beyond being a human sunbeam.
I also enjoyed the non-verbal conversations about Roy’s changing wardrobe. There was surprise and then concern and then the collective decision for full-hearted acceptance. Super sweet.
And — any scene with Roy in frame with Jamie is now a favorite scene. The actors just seem to enjoy each other so much, and it radiates.
posted by Silvery Fish at 4:28 AM on May 17, 2023 [10 favorites]
I enjoyed this episode a lot, for many of the reasons stated above. As to Rebecca’s, Roy’s, and Nate’s “sudden” changes - I was ok with that. The entire episode was a whole lot of metanoias, and sometimes it happens like that, like a true seismic shift, where there has been a building series of subterranean movements until finally the tectonic plates move into a new position. The entire show - especially this season- is the magical realism version of personal change.
Rani Dojas is dark and sexy and funny and I was glad the actor got an opportunity to do something beyond being a human sunbeam.
I also enjoyed the non-verbal conversations about Roy’s changing wardrobe. There was surprise and then concern and then the collective decision for full-hearted acceptance. Super sweet.
And — any scene with Roy in frame with Jamie is now a favorite scene. The actors just seem to enjoy each other so much, and it radiates.
posted by Silvery Fish at 4:28 AM on May 17, 2023 [10 favorites]
Oh - and everything Higgins in this ep was perfect. Prime, ungated Higgins. No notes.
posted by Silvery Fish at 4:57 AM on May 17, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by Silvery Fish at 4:57 AM on May 17, 2023 [8 favorites]
I wanted a moment where everyone is watching Dani maul Van Damme and they all get a faraway look in their eye and replay games in their head and all suddenly realize Oh shit, he really is a fucking terror when the whistle blows. We just never noticed because it's all against the other side...
THE LOOKS ON KEELEY AND REBECCA'S FACES WHEN ROY WALKS IN.
Rebecca moving a single eyebrow less than a centimeter is one of the greatest actorly choices I have ever seen in my entire life. Pacino and DeNiro should fly to London and hand over their Oscars in shame.
posted by Etrigan at 5:20 AM on May 17, 2023 [13 favorites]
THE LOOKS ON KEELEY AND REBECCA'S FACES WHEN ROY WALKS IN.
Rebecca moving a single eyebrow less than a centimeter is one of the greatest actorly choices I have ever seen in my entire life. Pacino and DeNiro should fly to London and hand over their Oscars in shame.
posted by Etrigan at 5:20 AM on May 17, 2023 [13 favorites]
UUUUUGGGGGHHHHH. So if we see Rebecca as a little girl, we're supposed to be so proud of who she has become. She had so much potential, and look at her now: fierce and strong and powerful!
But then we get to see all these rich (mostly) white billionaire assholes, as little boys. Are we supposed to see them as a bunch of squabbling, selfish children? Or are we supposed to see them as humans, who have just lost their way? Am I really supposed to be thinking the best of billionaires, who have up to this point shown absolutely zero human characteristics? (I swear, if Rupert's moustache was longer, he would have twisted it a few times in earlier scenes.)
And if the answer is yes, then why is it that the black billionaire continues to be an asshole? And the woman daughter of a billionaire?
And when did Dany Rojas become a monster? If he had shown that kind of kill-or-be-killed win-at-all-costs competitive streak EVER before this episode, then Etrigan's comment above would make sense. But they have played him as a dumb puppy dog for three years and now all of a sudden he's the terminator. He's written as a cartoon.
This season feels like it was written by a bunch of well-meaning-but-kinda-dumb white guys who had watched the previous seasons but still think it's basically a sports show. So disappointing.
posted by nushustu at 7:12 AM on May 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
But then we get to see all these rich (mostly) white billionaire assholes, as little boys. Are we supposed to see them as a bunch of squabbling, selfish children? Or are we supposed to see them as humans, who have just lost their way? Am I really supposed to be thinking the best of billionaires, who have up to this point shown absolutely zero human characteristics? (I swear, if Rupert's moustache was longer, he would have twisted it a few times in earlier scenes.)
And if the answer is yes, then why is it that the black billionaire continues to be an asshole? And the woman daughter of a billionaire?
And when did Dany Rojas become a monster? If he had shown that kind of kill-or-be-killed win-at-all-costs competitive streak EVER before this episode, then Etrigan's comment above would make sense. But they have played him as a dumb puppy dog for three years and now all of a sudden he's the terminator. He's written as a cartoon.
This season feels like it was written by a bunch of well-meaning-but-kinda-dumb white guys who had watched the previous seasons but still think it's basically a sports show. So disappointing.
posted by nushustu at 7:12 AM on May 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
Last night I would have screamed out loud, "Virtually none of this has been earned!" But my wife was trying to sleep, so I kept my protests silent.
Nate quitting the team, presumably because it dawned on him that if he wanted to keep coaching West Ham, he would be expected to play the same game as Rupert, was expected. It just that this is happening on Episode 10 with two episodes left. Granted, previously, two hours meant four episodes, but now, two hours mean two long episodes. This should have happened earlier in the season, so we're getting an upward curve on Nate's Ted Lasso expected redemption chart. The further along the line we get, the faster things happen. The problem, even with his apology to Will, is that the build up to it was slow and hampered by him either remaining selfish or adhering still to Rupert's expectations.
The big problem with Nate's story, as well as others, is that they threw too wide a net this season, be it incidental episodic stories or bigger issues. Or something.
Roy and Keeley SHOULD NOT have hooked up in this episode, if it was going to happen. The writers have been dropping in small points indicating that Roy is changing, but they really never addressed what the starting point was and we ended up at the end of it with a tie dyed t-shirt being traded for a pink robe all because he wrote a nice apology letter to Keeley. We're only two episodes away from Roy centering himself on Keeley's video going public. Keeley became a reward for Roy's development, and Roy's message to her should not have been, and maybe it wasn't (hard to say) an indication she needed to know her value. Rebecca's decision to invest in her, Barbara quitting her job to work for Keeley (ironically, this kind of reflects Shandy's attempt to pull a Jerry Maguire, though with Barbara quitting to follow Keeley).
[Note: I'm guessing Keeley could've saved some money if she didn't get an office overlooking the Thames, Tower Bridge, and so on.]
Jack's continual horrible break up with Keeley remains something that happened to her. We're informed about Jack's bad actions, but no one really comments on them. It'd be nice if Keeley had had an opportunity to tell Jack off, or do anything, and maybe that's all setup for the next two episodes, who knows.
Rebecca's growth is one of the things I do think that has been earned this season. She's been surging upward, buoyed by good advice, and dishing it out, too. I totally agree, though, it was weird to posit her turning down Rupert's kiss attempt as some incredible feat. I don't recall it being shared recently that Rebecca was somehow unable to resist his charm, and even the first or second episode seemed to encapsulate that she was 100% over him, when she called him out for his crap regarding his assistant and his wife. It seemed more like part of Rebecca's decision to attend the meeting was more about dragging Rupert down than lifting her up.
I'm not sure why they decided to bring back our horrible billionaire. The whole international play week story could have been cut without any impact on the main characters, and so we wouldn't have had the billionaire needing to brag to Sam about keeping him off the national team, or threatening to open a competing business to run his restaurant into the ground. These were two direct attacks on Sam's identity, and it's very unclear why they were needed for Sam's character. Again, it served to build up the villain, and maybe making us happy his super league falls flat on its face, but that would've happened without Sam's side story.
Anyway, it's clear Ted is thinking of reaching out to Nate. That there will be conflict between Nate and Beard.
Earned it summation: Rebecca yes. Keeley yes (but with regard to KJPR), Nate no. Roy no (getting back? with Keeley).
Bonus points: While I said International Play could've been cut, the Dani and Van Damme scenes were magic. But I really think it was weird Dani didn't express any remorse for Van Damme's broken nose as a teammate after the fact.
posted by Atreides at 7:17 AM on May 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
Nate quitting the team, presumably because it dawned on him that if he wanted to keep coaching West Ham, he would be expected to play the same game as Rupert, was expected. It just that this is happening on Episode 10 with two episodes left. Granted, previously, two hours meant four episodes, but now, two hours mean two long episodes. This should have happened earlier in the season, so we're getting an upward curve on Nate's Ted Lasso expected redemption chart. The further along the line we get, the faster things happen. The problem, even with his apology to Will, is that the build up to it was slow and hampered by him either remaining selfish or adhering still to Rupert's expectations.
The big problem with Nate's story, as well as others, is that they threw too wide a net this season, be it incidental episodic stories or bigger issues. Or something.
Roy and Keeley SHOULD NOT have hooked up in this episode, if it was going to happen. The writers have been dropping in small points indicating that Roy is changing, but they really never addressed what the starting point was and we ended up at the end of it with a tie dyed t-shirt being traded for a pink robe all because he wrote a nice apology letter to Keeley. We're only two episodes away from Roy centering himself on Keeley's video going public. Keeley became a reward for Roy's development, and Roy's message to her should not have been, and maybe it wasn't (hard to say) an indication she needed to know her value. Rebecca's decision to invest in her, Barbara quitting her job to work for Keeley (ironically, this kind of reflects Shandy's attempt to pull a Jerry Maguire, though with Barbara quitting to follow Keeley).
[Note: I'm guessing Keeley could've saved some money if she didn't get an office overlooking the Thames, Tower Bridge, and so on.]
Jack's continual horrible break up with Keeley remains something that happened to her. We're informed about Jack's bad actions, but no one really comments on them. It'd be nice if Keeley had had an opportunity to tell Jack off, or do anything, and maybe that's all setup for the next two episodes, who knows.
Rebecca's growth is one of the things I do think that has been earned this season. She's been surging upward, buoyed by good advice, and dishing it out, too. I totally agree, though, it was weird to posit her turning down Rupert's kiss attempt as some incredible feat. I don't recall it being shared recently that Rebecca was somehow unable to resist his charm, and even the first or second episode seemed to encapsulate that she was 100% over him, when she called him out for his crap regarding his assistant and his wife. It seemed more like part of Rebecca's decision to attend the meeting was more about dragging Rupert down than lifting her up.
I'm not sure why they decided to bring back our horrible billionaire. The whole international play week story could have been cut without any impact on the main characters, and so we wouldn't have had the billionaire needing to brag to Sam about keeping him off the national team, or threatening to open a competing business to run his restaurant into the ground. These were two direct attacks on Sam's identity, and it's very unclear why they were needed for Sam's character. Again, it served to build up the villain, and maybe making us happy his super league falls flat on its face, but that would've happened without Sam's side story.
Anyway, it's clear Ted is thinking of reaching out to Nate. That there will be conflict between Nate and Beard.
Earned it summation: Rebecca yes. Keeley yes (but with regard to KJPR), Nate no. Roy no (getting back? with Keeley).
Bonus points: While I said International Play could've been cut, the Dani and Van Damme scenes were magic. But I really think it was weird Dani didn't express any remorse for Van Damme's broken nose as a teammate after the fact.
posted by Atreides at 7:17 AM on May 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
Mod note: Above the fold text revealed plot points, so it was moved inside, at the request of others.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 7:54 AM on May 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 7:54 AM on May 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
I loved this episode, so many little moments.
There's clearly more to come in the Nate/Rupert front, too much still hanging loose. I loved that he went for an apology to Will, he has more of that to do, but it felt right.
Absolutely cracked up that Rupert is "The Devil" on Rebecca's phone. And my take on the non-kiss with Rupert is that the win isn't that she "didn't succumb to Rupert", that was never a possibility even though they did try to sell it to the viewers, but that she shown to herself that she absolutely does not need to care about this man, his actions, what he thinks of her or what other people think of her & him. She's through, done. While there's some satisfaction that he still desires her and that allows her to deny him something he wants, it's icing on the cake, she didn't need that moment.
That letter of Roy with the text all scribbled up in the corner was such a good visual gag! Sincerely yours, Roy Kent, XOXO, I was dying.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 8:22 AM on May 17, 2023 [17 favorites]
There's clearly more to come in the Nate/Rupert front, too much still hanging loose. I loved that he went for an apology to Will, he has more of that to do, but it felt right.
Absolutely cracked up that Rupert is "The Devil" on Rebecca's phone. And my take on the non-kiss with Rupert is that the win isn't that she "didn't succumb to Rupert", that was never a possibility even though they did try to sell it to the viewers, but that she shown to herself that she absolutely does not need to care about this man, his actions, what he thinks of her or what other people think of her & him. She's through, done. While there's some satisfaction that he still desires her and that allows her to deny him something he wants, it's icing on the cake, she didn't need that moment.
That letter of Roy with the text all scribbled up in the corner was such a good visual gag! Sincerely yours, Roy Kent, XOXO, I was dying.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 8:22 AM on May 17, 2023 [17 favorites]
That letter of Roy with the text all scribbled up in the corner was such a good visual gag!
I noticed that too! But it also broke my heart a bit (along with the tentative terrible penmanship) — it perfectly showed a kid who was taken away from home at the age of 8 to do nothing but play football. Along with that tiny, tiny jersey, I suppose.
Roy has come so far, has done so much, with some glaring early and profound deficits. A glance at that letter - I felt so proud of him.
posted by Silvery Fish at 8:37 AM on May 17, 2023 [15 favorites]
I noticed that too! But it also broke my heart a bit (along with the tentative terrible penmanship) — it perfectly showed a kid who was taken away from home at the age of 8 to do nothing but play football. Along with that tiny, tiny jersey, I suppose.
Roy has come so far, has done so much, with some glaring early and profound deficits. A glance at that letter - I felt so proud of him.
posted by Silvery Fish at 8:37 AM on May 17, 2023 [15 favorites]
And when did Dany Rojas become a monster? If he had shown that kind of kill-or-be-killed win-at-all-costs competitive streak EVER before this episode, then Etrigan's comment above would make sense. But they have played him as a dumb puppy dog for three years and now all of a sudden he's the terminator. He's written as a cartoon.
Game footage is always focused on someone who has a plot going in the episode, and I don't think we've ever had a Dani plot that spills over onto the actual playing field. Practice, yes, but actual play?
Remember, this guy is good enough that the Premier League brought him over from Mexico. Dumb puppy dogs don't get that far.
posted by Etrigan at 8:38 AM on May 17, 2023 [6 favorites]
Game footage is always focused on someone who has a plot going in the episode, and I don't think we've ever had a Dani plot that spills over onto the actual playing field. Practice, yes, but actual play?
Remember, this guy is good enough that the Premier League brought him over from Mexico. Dumb puppy dogs don't get that far.
posted by Etrigan at 8:38 AM on May 17, 2023 [6 favorites]
I don't think we've ever had a Dani plot that spills over onto the actual playing field. Practice, yes, but actual play?
Well, there was the unfortunate incident with the dog, although that was a penalty kick.
posted by jedicus at 8:59 AM on May 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
Well, there was the unfortunate incident with the dog, although that was a penalty kick.
posted by jedicus at 8:59 AM on May 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
His grieving over the dog is exactly why it was weird he didn't at least appear sympathetic to his teammate having a broken nose. Argh.
posted by Atreides at 9:09 AM on May 17, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Atreides at 9:09 AM on May 17, 2023 [3 favorites]
The dog was an innocent bystander. Van Damme was an enemy, and Dani isn't going to do him the disrespect of pretending he's sorry.
posted by Etrigan at 9:21 AM on May 17, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 9:21 AM on May 17, 2023 [9 favorites]
I'm just saying, if there had been just ONE scene of Dani being a mean motherfucker prior to this episode, that would have helped me buy this.
Just the scene in the airplane with the chips. You know why that was bullshit? Because I suspect Dani would never do that because he would have the presence of mind to know that someone was going to have to clean that up. That is a shitty thing to do, and it's not the flight attendant's fault that your "enemy" is on the plane. I just don't buy he would have done that, and there is to my memory no past scene that proves me wrong.
And this is basically the problem with this show this season: everybody is acting out of character. Ted has become just dumb as hell. He doesn't know basic, basic things, but he wants to hire a PI to shadow his ex-wife and the mother of his child. Roy worries about who Keeley was sending nudes to. Keeley doesn't know how to do basic PR. Nate goes from total asshole, spitting at himself, to pretty nice guy in basically two episodes. Nate's dad goes from total asshole to pretty nice guy in half an episode. It just all feels completely unearned.
Earlier this year, the actress who plays Rebecca mentioned she wants another season to see what happens. It's been echoed by others in the cast. At first I just thought they wanted to continue to work together, but now I wonder if they're all disappointed in the direction the show has gone, and want to right it.
posted by nushustu at 9:34 AM on May 17, 2023 [13 favorites]
Just the scene in the airplane with the chips. You know why that was bullshit? Because I suspect Dani would never do that because he would have the presence of mind to know that someone was going to have to clean that up. That is a shitty thing to do, and it's not the flight attendant's fault that your "enemy" is on the plane. I just don't buy he would have done that, and there is to my memory no past scene that proves me wrong.
And this is basically the problem with this show this season: everybody is acting out of character. Ted has become just dumb as hell. He doesn't know basic, basic things, but he wants to hire a PI to shadow his ex-wife and the mother of his child. Roy worries about who Keeley was sending nudes to. Keeley doesn't know how to do basic PR. Nate goes from total asshole, spitting at himself, to pretty nice guy in basically two episodes. Nate's dad goes from total asshole to pretty nice guy in half an episode. It just all feels completely unearned.
Earlier this year, the actress who plays Rebecca mentioned she wants another season to see what happens. It's been echoed by others in the cast. At first I just thought they wanted to continue to work together, but now I wonder if they're all disappointed in the direction the show has gone, and want to right it.
posted by nushustu at 9:34 AM on May 17, 2023 [13 favorites]
That is a shitty thing to do, and it's not the flight attendant's fault that your "enemy" is on the plane.
Okay, that is a fair point, but I counter it with my headcanon that as soon as Van Damme turned away, Dani surreptitiously swept up the crumbs.
posted by Etrigan at 9:37 AM on May 17, 2023 [18 favorites]
Okay, that is a fair point, but I counter it with my headcanon that as soon as Van Damme turned away, Dani surreptitiously swept up the crumbs.
posted by Etrigan at 9:37 AM on May 17, 2023 [18 favorites]
I will say the best thing about last night's episode was that when I went to sleep, at one point in my dreams, I saw Trent, and shouted, "Hey Trent Crimm with the Independent!" He then stopped to suggest I could make him feel more welcome by adopting more British ways of saying things. Then I woke up.
posted by Atreides at 10:33 AM on May 17, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by Atreides at 10:33 AM on May 17, 2023 [8 favorites]
Atreides: "Virtually none of this has been earned!"
Came in here to write literally that sentence. Thanks for doing it for me.
posted by tzikeh at 10:35 AM on May 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
Came in here to write literally that sentence. Thanks for doing it for me.
posted by tzikeh at 10:35 AM on May 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
This isn’t a great show anymore. But it is a show that consistently delivers great gags. That’ll have to do, I think.
posted by boogieboy at 10:39 AM on May 17, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by boogieboy at 10:39 AM on May 17, 2023 [7 favorites]
Okay, that is a fair point, but I counter it with my headcanon that as soon as Van Damme turned away, Dani surreptitiously swept up the crumbs.
That's the thing though. We have to do that all the time now. They skip all the drama and just say "okay now we're here." We skipped Roy and Keeley breaking up. We skipped Nate quitting. I get that we have points we have to get to, but this whole season feels like they were just faffing about and then with five eps left said "shit we gotta wrap this up."
The whole season could have been about dealing with parents/mentors. Nate "succeeding" and being miserable and lashing out until he finally figures out that it's his daddy issues and deals with that, leading to the first step in growing. Parallel that with Ted continuing to work on his own father issues and how it informs him as a father. Callbacks to Jamie's relationship with his father.
Not to make this all daddy issues, skip the Jack story entirely. Let Rebecca back Keeley from the get-go. Make the drama about the tension that occurs when two best friends' relationship is put at risk when they have differences of opinions about how to run the PR firm: Keeley's the PR genius, but Rebecca's footing the bill. There's opportunity for growth from both of them on that front.
Heck, let Will Kitman get down, not knowing what he wants to do w/ his life, loving football but knowing he's not good enough to play, and doesn't have a head for coaching. Let Higgins take him under his wing and show him that there are a whole lot of jobs in sports other than players and coaches, and that, just like the kitman, they're all important. There are just so many ways to create drama that hews to the spirit of the first two seasons, that allows characters growth, and wouldn't feel fake, or like an after-school special.
posted by nushustu at 11:11 AM on May 17, 2023 [23 favorites]
That's the thing though. We have to do that all the time now. They skip all the drama and just say "okay now we're here." We skipped Roy and Keeley breaking up. We skipped Nate quitting. I get that we have points we have to get to, but this whole season feels like they were just faffing about and then with five eps left said "shit we gotta wrap this up."
The whole season could have been about dealing with parents/mentors. Nate "succeeding" and being miserable and lashing out until he finally figures out that it's his daddy issues and deals with that, leading to the first step in growing. Parallel that with Ted continuing to work on his own father issues and how it informs him as a father. Callbacks to Jamie's relationship with his father.
Not to make this all daddy issues, skip the Jack story entirely. Let Rebecca back Keeley from the get-go. Make the drama about the tension that occurs when two best friends' relationship is put at risk when they have differences of opinions about how to run the PR firm: Keeley's the PR genius, but Rebecca's footing the bill. There's opportunity for growth from both of them on that front.
Heck, let Will Kitman get down, not knowing what he wants to do w/ his life, loving football but knowing he's not good enough to play, and doesn't have a head for coaching. Let Higgins take him under his wing and show him that there are a whole lot of jobs in sports other than players and coaches, and that, just like the kitman, they're all important. There are just so many ways to create drama that hews to the spirit of the first two seasons, that allows characters growth, and wouldn't feel fake, or like an after-school special.
posted by nushustu at 11:11 AM on May 17, 2023 [23 favorites]
WaterAndPixels: "And my take on the non-kiss with Rupert is that the win isn't that she "didn't succumb to Rupert", that was never a possibility even though they did try to sell it to the viewers, but that she shown to herself that she absolutely does not need to care about this man, his actions, what he thinks of her or what other people think of her & him."
Yes! The triumph isn't that she would've let herself get kissed by Rupert at any point in seasons 1 or 2. It's that she's seen behind the curtain and knows all of his moves now. She pities him.
One of the few subtle things they did in this episode was have Rebecca hang up the artwork that Rupert had given her. She'd taken it down because it was tainted by association. But she finally realizes that her “nemesis” is just someone with the emotional maturity of a child. When you pity someone, they become unable to infect your relationships with other people and things. They can no longer infect the dark corners of your mind.
Jeanne: "I think it would have been more believable, interesting, and realistic for Lloyd to give Nate either no apology or the smallest, most "I never did anything wrong, I just tried to do what was best for you" apology, and for Nate to realize that he has to do the emotional work himself. Because, when you are trying to become a better person - when you are really trying to do that work on yourself - it doesn't just get handed to you, and it especially doesn't just get handed to you when you're in a depressive funk at your mom's house taking way too much advantage of her hospitality. "
First: I'd argue that we were already shown the dynamic you're describing — with Rebecca and Rupert. She gets past her trauma by doing her own work.
But also: I was at a Rob Thomas (Veronica Mars creator) book signing thing once where someone complimented him on his dialogue and he said that he loved to make characters say, in real time, the things that people only tend to think of after the fact. And it made me recall that the Freaks and Geeks writers' room had a rule against that sort of thing — nobody was allowed to say the way-too-clever thing, because it wouldn't have been an honest depiction of high school life.
And so for years I've been sorting shows into those two categories — often just in terms of dialogue, but also in terms of wish fulfillment in general. I love both Freaks and Geeks and Veronica Mars, because both shows know exactly what they are. The show you're describing would be a good one, but it isn't Ted Lasso. I've priced in a certain amount of schlockiness and mild fantasy because, well, this show is set in a slightly more optimistic version of reality than our own.
Is it unrealistic for Lloyd to suddenly give Nate the thing he needed? Yes, but if they'd tried to earn that scene, it would've involved a bunch of setup scenes with Lloyd that we honestly didn't have time for. And, honestly, I was a bit impressed that they didn't turn the volume up to eleven. Lloyd said the stuff, teared up a bit, and then walked out of the room. I was sure they'd end the scene with a big hug.
posted by savetheclocktower at 11:30 AM on May 17, 2023 [17 favorites]
Yes! The triumph isn't that she would've let herself get kissed by Rupert at any point in seasons 1 or 2. It's that she's seen behind the curtain and knows all of his moves now. She pities him.
One of the few subtle things they did in this episode was have Rebecca hang up the artwork that Rupert had given her. She'd taken it down because it was tainted by association. But she finally realizes that her “nemesis” is just someone with the emotional maturity of a child. When you pity someone, they become unable to infect your relationships with other people and things. They can no longer infect the dark corners of your mind.
Jeanne: "I think it would have been more believable, interesting, and realistic for Lloyd to give Nate either no apology or the smallest, most "I never did anything wrong, I just tried to do what was best for you" apology, and for Nate to realize that he has to do the emotional work himself. Because, when you are trying to become a better person - when you are really trying to do that work on yourself - it doesn't just get handed to you, and it especially doesn't just get handed to you when you're in a depressive funk at your mom's house taking way too much advantage of her hospitality. "
First: I'd argue that we were already shown the dynamic you're describing — with Rebecca and Rupert. She gets past her trauma by doing her own work.
But also: I was at a Rob Thomas (Veronica Mars creator) book signing thing once where someone complimented him on his dialogue and he said that he loved to make characters say, in real time, the things that people only tend to think of after the fact. And it made me recall that the Freaks and Geeks writers' room had a rule against that sort of thing — nobody was allowed to say the way-too-clever thing, because it wouldn't have been an honest depiction of high school life.
And so for years I've been sorting shows into those two categories — often just in terms of dialogue, but also in terms of wish fulfillment in general. I love both Freaks and Geeks and Veronica Mars, because both shows know exactly what they are. The show you're describing would be a good one, but it isn't Ted Lasso. I've priced in a certain amount of schlockiness and mild fantasy because, well, this show is set in a slightly more optimistic version of reality than our own.
Is it unrealistic for Lloyd to suddenly give Nate the thing he needed? Yes, but if they'd tried to earn that scene, it would've involved a bunch of setup scenes with Lloyd that we honestly didn't have time for. And, honestly, I was a bit impressed that they didn't turn the volume up to eleven. Lloyd said the stuff, teared up a bit, and then walked out of the room. I was sure they'd end the scene with a big hug.
posted by savetheclocktower at 11:30 AM on May 17, 2023 [17 favorites]
I've priced in a certain amount of schlockiness and mild fantasy because, well, this show is set in a slightly more optimistic version of reality than our own.
I’ve come to think of the show as the adult live-action version of Daniel Tiger’s Neighborhood, down to O the Owl doing something out of character so that Daniel and Jodi Platypus can have an interpersonal revelation and resolution by the end of the episode. I was frustrated with it for a while. But - this isn’t Halt and Catch Fire levels of measured human growth and self-deceptions and limits: I’m ok with just letting it do its thing at this point, and just try to vibe along with it.
posted by Silvery Fish at 11:48 AM on May 17, 2023 [14 favorites]
I’ve come to think of the show as the adult live-action version of Daniel Tiger’s Neighborhood, down to O the Owl doing something out of character so that Daniel and Jodi Platypus can have an interpersonal revelation and resolution by the end of the episode. I was frustrated with it for a while. But - this isn’t Halt and Catch Fire levels of measured human growth and self-deceptions and limits: I’m ok with just letting it do its thing at this point, and just try to vibe along with it.
posted by Silvery Fish at 11:48 AM on May 17, 2023 [14 favorites]
Yes, but if they'd tried to earn that scene, it would've involved a bunch of setup scenes with Lloyd that we honestly didn't have time for.
And yet there was plenty of time to learn what Nate's favorite dishes at Taste of Athens were, and learn that he actually thought a decorated cardboard box to ask someone out was a good idea.
If they jettisoned the Jade storyline, they would have more space for an arc that actually addressed Nate's issues in a coherent manner. Instead we got this hot mess.
posted by creepygirl at 11:52 AM on May 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
And yet there was plenty of time to learn what Nate's favorite dishes at Taste of Athens were, and learn that he actually thought a decorated cardboard box to ask someone out was a good idea.
If they jettisoned the Jade storyline, they would have more space for an arc that actually addressed Nate's issues in a coherent manner. Instead we got this hot mess.
posted by creepygirl at 11:52 AM on May 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
creepygirl: "If they jettisoned the Jade storyline, they would have more space for an arc that actually addressed Nate's issues in a coherent manner. Instead we got this hot mess."
I agree with all of that, except that I think the Jack storyline should've been jettisoned, and the Jade storyline should've just been something much less strange and romcom-y. Believe me, I share the frustration of this show trying to go in ten different directions at once.
posted by savetheclocktower at 11:55 AM on May 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
I agree with all of that, except that I think the Jack storyline should've been jettisoned, and the Jade storyline should've just been something much less strange and romcom-y. Believe me, I share the frustration of this show trying to go in ten different directions at once.
posted by savetheclocktower at 11:55 AM on May 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
The least realistic thing to me was the idea that a parent finally apologizing *once* after years of being shitty would have any impact on a child's mood or mental health *whatsoever*.
My opinion isn't based on personal experience or anything.
posted by Gorgik at 12:25 PM on May 17, 2023 [17 favorites]
My opinion isn't based on personal experience or anything.
posted by Gorgik at 12:25 PM on May 17, 2023 [17 favorites]
nushustu: They skip all the drama and just say "okay now we're here."
They didn't do that for the first two seasons, right? I'm not retroactively imagining that the show was actually good, am I?
posted by tzikeh at 12:27 PM on May 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
They didn't do that for the first two seasons, right? I'm not retroactively imagining that the show was actually good, am I?
posted by tzikeh at 12:27 PM on May 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
Ted Lasso showrunners aren’t only paid by the minute, but exponentially so
posted by adrianhon at 1:01 PM on May 17, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by adrianhon at 1:01 PM on May 17, 2023 [3 favorites]
But then we get to see all these rich (mostly) white billionaire assholes, as little boys. Are we supposed to see them as a bunch of squabbling, selfish children? Or are we supposed to see them as humans, who have just lost their way? Am I really supposed to be thinking the best of billionaires, who have up to this point shown absolutely zero human characteristics? (I swear, if Rupert's moustache was longer, he would have twisted it a few times in earlier scenes.)
- I read this a little differently: children have promise and dream. Rebecca is proud that her younger self would be proud of the choices her adult self is making today.
- Keely's texts seem a little unearned but I'd hope that a friend would find a way to pull through in a pinch anyway.
- Those texts also crack open the opportunity for Rebecca to ask the same of the other owner's child-selves to hold their today-adult-selves accountable
posted by mce at 1:10 PM on May 17, 2023 [10 favorites]
I don’t care that it’s not as good as the first two seasons. I lapped it up. I got teary-eyed at one point. I’m OK with wish fulfillment. At least when it comes to the show, and partly because things are really hard and shitty for a lot of people a lot of the time. Including me. So it’s not that any of the points people have shared are wrong. It’s not even that I disagree necessarily. It’s just that I love this show even when it doesn’t show up as consistently or thoughtfully as it has in the past. Tomorrow I’m gonna watch the episode a second time to see what I missed the first time around and I expect I will enjoy it just as much. I hope it’s not a drag that I’m such a fan but I’m a total fan. I don’t think we will know exactly what’s going to happen with Roy and Keely. Whose name I am probably misspelling, sorry. This is just where they are right now, not necessarily forever. Thanks for explaining the joke about Kunt vs Kent because I totally didn’t get it during the show. Also, I did not see the violin thing coming. I loved that.
posted by Bella Donna at 1:16 PM on May 17, 2023 [29 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 1:16 PM on May 17, 2023 [29 favorites]
If they jettisoned the Jade storyline, they would have more space for an arc that actually addressed Nate's issues in a coherent manner. Instead we got this hot mess.
Even better, Nate should have been seen only in TV appearances (and from across the field) throughout the season, and then we'd have a surprise episode dedicated to the mirror-universe TV show that had been going on the whole time inside the rival team under his command. (Maybe we'd have only gotten to see him being confident and cruel, an anti-Lasso, apparently successfully inhabiting Rupert's world, and then we'd finally get to see how miserable it was making him just in time for him to escape it. Rupert, in this scenario, had probably only hired him to get back at Rebecca, anyway.)
posted by nobody at 1:30 PM on May 17, 2023 [21 favorites]
Even better, Nate should have been seen only in TV appearances (and from across the field) throughout the season, and then we'd have a surprise episode dedicated to the mirror-universe TV show that had been going on the whole time inside the rival team under his command. (Maybe we'd have only gotten to see him being confident and cruel, an anti-Lasso, apparently successfully inhabiting Rupert's world, and then we'd finally get to see how miserable it was making him just in time for him to escape it. Rupert, in this scenario, had probably only hired him to get back at Rebecca, anyway.)
posted by nobody at 1:30 PM on May 17, 2023 [21 favorites]
there's altogether too much spitting in this show.
posted by lapolla at 2:21 PM on May 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by lapolla at 2:21 PM on May 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
The music Nate plays is Spiegel im Spiegel (Mirror in the Mirror) by Arvo Pärt. It was used to really good effect at the end of The Good Place when...
^HERE BE SPOILERS^
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Chidi tells Eleanor he's decided to move on.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 3:16 PM on May 17, 2023 [14 favorites]
^HERE BE SPOILERS^
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Chidi tells Eleanor he's decided to move on.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 3:16 PM on May 17, 2023 [14 favorites]
All I know is that now I want to enjoy Chicago-style hot dogs like Barack Obama and Ferris Bueller
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:28 PM on May 17, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:28 PM on May 17, 2023 [7 favorites]
This show is taking the characters further and further away from what they used to be. I didn't believe almost anything in this episode at all. I didn't buy some of the revelations. I wasn't heart-warmed by anything. Rebecca gives a speech about why football is important and the only reason I stuck with this show was because it mostly wasn't about football, let alone the veneration of it. I've said it before, but this episode makes it worth saying again - turning a show about soft masculinity into an exploration of toxic masculinity hasn't done it any favours.
I don't believe Keeley would ignore those texts.
I don't believe Rebecca needs to do inner-child work.
I don't believe Nate's dad's speech, which does contradict everything we know about him.
I don't believe playing the violin and one speech would fix Nate's toxic hatred of himself.
If we are meant to believe that Nate regressing into childhood is some kind of redemption, then why are the billionaires just being squabbly school children that Rebecca can yell at their flaw? (Or is the show saying that billionaires just need someone to give them a metaphorical hug?)
Did Roy really need to do the work of fixing himself this season or was the show just trying to keep him and Keeley apart for dramatic reasons? From memory, they were both tempted by other people last season and the problem was Keeley didn't like clingy Roy not that he wasn't open-hearted enough.
Did the show really try to parallel Keeley sleeping with Roy to Rebecca almost kissing Rupert? yeah, it fucking did and it was gross.
I didn't believe that the guys would be so freaked out about Roy's shirt. Yeah, it's not him but in previous seasons they would have at least complimented him on it.
Why did they bring back the plot about a Super League from last season?
Why did they make Ted so stupid as to confuse it with the Justice League? (Previously he would have made a weird comparison, but not actually thought one was the other.)
Why was Keeley's plot this season all story and no character? She had no agency. Everything happened to her. She was running on the spot.
Remember when this show was a tight 25 minutes?
Remember when this show called Ted Lasso involved a guy called Ted Lasso? (My guess: the season will end with Ted realising they don't need him anymore - especially now that Rebecca has a passion for the club and not just a hate-on for Rupert, so she can find someone to actually coach the team who knows how the fuck soccer works. Coach Roy Kent?)
Anyway, this show has really mutated into something I don't much like anymore. I'll stick this season out but I'm sad to be giving up on a show I loved so much.
posted by crossoverman at 3:48 PM on May 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
I don't believe Keeley would ignore those texts.
I don't believe Rebecca needs to do inner-child work.
I don't believe Nate's dad's speech, which does contradict everything we know about him.
I don't believe playing the violin and one speech would fix Nate's toxic hatred of himself.
If we are meant to believe that Nate regressing into childhood is some kind of redemption, then why are the billionaires just being squabbly school children that Rebecca can yell at their flaw? (Or is the show saying that billionaires just need someone to give them a metaphorical hug?)
Did Roy really need to do the work of fixing himself this season or was the show just trying to keep him and Keeley apart for dramatic reasons? From memory, they were both tempted by other people last season and the problem was Keeley didn't like clingy Roy not that he wasn't open-hearted enough.
Did the show really try to parallel Keeley sleeping with Roy to Rebecca almost kissing Rupert? yeah, it fucking did and it was gross.
I didn't believe that the guys would be so freaked out about Roy's shirt. Yeah, it's not him but in previous seasons they would have at least complimented him on it.
Why did they bring back the plot about a Super League from last season?
Why did they make Ted so stupid as to confuse it with the Justice League? (Previously he would have made a weird comparison, but not actually thought one was the other.)
Why was Keeley's plot this season all story and no character? She had no agency. Everything happened to her. She was running on the spot.
Remember when this show was a tight 25 minutes?
Remember when this show called Ted Lasso involved a guy called Ted Lasso? (My guess: the season will end with Ted realising they don't need him anymore - especially now that Rebecca has a passion for the club and not just a hate-on for Rupert, so she can find someone to actually coach the team who knows how the fuck soccer works. Coach Roy Kent?)
Anyway, this show has really mutated into something I don't much like anymore. I'll stick this season out but I'm sad to be giving up on a show I loved so much.
posted by crossoverman at 3:48 PM on May 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
Back when Game of Thrones turned from amazing with problematic bits into a forced march through a cast line-up, there was a lot of discussion about character-driven stories versus plot-driven stories. And I think my main gripe with this season is that it's changed from character-driven to plot-driven. People get growth and change on a set schedule whether it's earned or plausible (in this Lasso-style world) or not. The consistently good parts (Jamie, Sam) are for characters who don't have anyplace to be except in spot, living their life.
And I was annoyed, because I fucking love character driven stories. But as we get through this season and at least some of our characters are getting to better places in their lives and the more irritating plots get wrapped up, I'm feeling more forgiving. Very few TV shows have satisfying endings, because endings are hard. Book authors have enormous control and revisions. Film directors have less control, but shorter story time so it's easier to wrangle all the moving parts. But TV shows have to deal with making something over many years, with cast and crew and organisational changes, with serialised delivery. I get the impression from one of the interviews linked in earlier discussions that Bill Lawrence was brought on as show runner with the idea that he would train up Jason Sudeikis in the role. So this season has been Sudeikis's first real go at it, but he's got the most difficult part of the story to handle.
With all of our characters back from the weird places they've been this season, I'm hopeful that the last two episodes will have more of the satisfying character stuff and less rushing through plot points.
posted by harriet vane at 6:16 PM on May 17, 2023 [7 favorites]
And I was annoyed, because I fucking love character driven stories. But as we get through this season and at least some of our characters are getting to better places in their lives and the more irritating plots get wrapped up, I'm feeling more forgiving. Very few TV shows have satisfying endings, because endings are hard. Book authors have enormous control and revisions. Film directors have less control, but shorter story time so it's easier to wrangle all the moving parts. But TV shows have to deal with making something over many years, with cast and crew and organisational changes, with serialised delivery. I get the impression from one of the interviews linked in earlier discussions that Bill Lawrence was brought on as show runner with the idea that he would train up Jason Sudeikis in the role. So this season has been Sudeikis's first real go at it, but he's got the most difficult part of the story to handle.
With all of our characters back from the weird places they've been this season, I'm hopeful that the last two episodes will have more of the satisfying character stuff and less rushing through plot points.
posted by harriet vane at 6:16 PM on May 17, 2023 [7 favorites]
It looks like the final two episodes are written by Joe Kelly, Brendan Hunt & Jason Sudeikis - the creators minus Bill Lawrence. That speaks to it being the finale, at least in its current form. I do wonder why Bill left when he always talked about it being three and done, though. Why not stick it out until the end? Sounds like there was a lot of backstage stuff, delays, re-writes, etc. But was that precipitated by Lawrence leaving or did it cause him to leave? The season started off on a bad foot, so it seems like he went missing early on. I'm really fascinated by how and why all this happened.
But even if it was always the plan to train Jason (though it was always said that they couldn't keep him on a TV show forever), whatever he did couldn't compare to Lawrence, who has been running shows for twenty years and writing them for thirty. I always assumed Lawrence was brought on as co-creator because he was the one with the experience; sad then that he was the one that left taking all his experience with him. (Brett Goldstein made a smart move by co-creating another show with Lawrence, which will put him in good stead if season three is indeed the last of Lasso.)
Yes, this season is all plot and far too many characters. Even if the writing had been clearer, expanding the roster of central characters seems like a bad choice. Unless it's to set up a spin-off show, but that's unfortunately to the detriment of the original.
posted by crossoverman at 6:36 PM on May 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
But even if it was always the plan to train Jason (though it was always said that they couldn't keep him on a TV show forever), whatever he did couldn't compare to Lawrence, who has been running shows for twenty years and writing them for thirty. I always assumed Lawrence was brought on as co-creator because he was the one with the experience; sad then that he was the one that left taking all his experience with him. (Brett Goldstein made a smart move by co-creating another show with Lawrence, which will put him in good stead if season three is indeed the last of Lasso.)
Yes, this season is all plot and far too many characters. Even if the writing had been clearer, expanding the roster of central characters seems like a bad choice. Unless it's to set up a spin-off show, but that's unfortunately to the detriment of the original.
posted by crossoverman at 6:36 PM on May 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
The least realistic thing to me was the idea that a parent finally apologizing *once* after years of being shitty would have any impact on a child's mood or mental health *whatsoever*.
I wholeheartedly disagree. Had my father apologized to me just once, just fucking once, I would be able to be a smidge less bitter and angry and while a smidge isn't a lot, it's something.
posted by cooker girl at 7:01 PM on May 17, 2023 [28 favorites]
I wholeheartedly disagree. Had my father apologized to me just once, just fucking once, I would be able to be a smidge less bitter and angry and while a smidge isn't a lot, it's something.
posted by cooker girl at 7:01 PM on May 17, 2023 [28 favorites]
Is it me or did half of this episode seem like it belonged at the beginning of the season?
- Akufo: Callback to the end of Season 2. If he showed up to take revenge on Sam a couple of episodes after Sam turned him down, it would have made sense. Instead he disappeared for a year (?) and then came back with fresh anger.
- Roy runs into his daughter's teacher -- call back to Season 2 when they had a bit of a flirt. But it's been so long I had to remind my wife who she was.
- Roy and Keeley start to deal with their issues, which were on hold all season.
- Nate apologizes to Will like a year later. Better Nate than never I guess.
I liked this episode but it was a situation where I could FEEL the editing. Some of this was probably supposed to happen earlier in the season but was shuffled around.
I kind of wish Nate's quitting had happened on screen, I would like to know what happened. I feel like Rupert must have done something way worse than cheating on his wife, since literally everybody knows that about him.
The Roy/Jamie/Phoebe scene made up for most of it though, if we get a spinoff maybe it can be "Best friends Roy and Jamie tour Europe by bicycle" because those two are great together.
posted by mmoncur at 7:22 PM on May 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
- Akufo: Callback to the end of Season 2. If he showed up to take revenge on Sam a couple of episodes after Sam turned him down, it would have made sense. Instead he disappeared for a year (?) and then came back with fresh anger.
- Roy runs into his daughter's teacher -- call back to Season 2 when they had a bit of a flirt. But it's been so long I had to remind my wife who she was.
- Roy and Keeley start to deal with their issues, which were on hold all season.
- Nate apologizes to Will like a year later. Better Nate than never I guess.
I liked this episode but it was a situation where I could FEEL the editing. Some of this was probably supposed to happen earlier in the season but was shuffled around.
I kind of wish Nate's quitting had happened on screen, I would like to know what happened. I feel like Rupert must have done something way worse than cheating on his wife, since literally everybody knows that about him.
The Roy/Jamie/Phoebe scene made up for most of it though, if we get a spinoff maybe it can be "Best friends Roy and Jamie tour Europe by bicycle" because those two are great together.
posted by mmoncur at 7:22 PM on May 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
Mr. creepygirl and I rewatched Midnight Train to Royston (Season 2, episode 11) tonight and discovered that this episode has a couple of callbacks to that earlier episode:
In Midnight Train to Royston, Sam agrees to go to a museum/out to eat with Akufo.
Watching them go, Higgins says, "So strange. I once wrote a play about a billionaire who took a footballer to a museum and then dinner."
Someone asks Higgins what happens in the play. "Well, they get their meal for free because they found a little bit of glass in the pasta."
Also, in MTtR, Ms. Bowen, Phoebe's teacher lists the nicknames the children have for her, "Ms. Bowlegs, Ms. Boring, Ms. Bonehead, Ms. Bellend, Boaty Ms. Boatface... and then there's one little boy who simply calls me fuck-witch, which is admittedly my favorite. "
posted by creepygirl at 8:17 PM on May 17, 2023 [29 favorites]
In Midnight Train to Royston, Sam agrees to go to a museum/out to eat with Akufo.
Watching them go, Higgins says, "So strange. I once wrote a play about a billionaire who took a footballer to a museum and then dinner."
Someone asks Higgins what happens in the play. "Well, they get their meal for free because they found a little bit of glass in the pasta."
Also, in MTtR, Ms. Bowen, Phoebe's teacher lists the nicknames the children have for her, "Ms. Bowlegs, Ms. Boring, Ms. Bonehead, Ms. Bellend, Boaty Ms. Boatface... and then there's one little boy who simply calls me fuck-witch, which is admittedly my favorite. "
posted by creepygirl at 8:17 PM on May 17, 2023 [29 favorites]
This is the first ep of the season that had me lol'ing - and repeatedly! Particularly enjoyed the Roy/Jamie scenes, and also appreciated the ongoing rehabilitation of Jamie (eg the shirt was a lovely touch (but didn't need the announcers pointing out the obvious)).
I wholeheartedly disagree. Had my father apologized to me just once, just fucking once, I would be able to be a smidge less bitter and angry and while a smidge isn't a lot, it's something.
Very much seconded. I'm still waiting.
posted by coriolisdave at 8:36 PM on May 17, 2023 [15 favorites]
I wholeheartedly disagree. Had my father apologized to me just once, just fucking once, I would be able to be a smidge less bitter and angry and while a smidge isn't a lot, it's something.
Very much seconded. I'm still waiting.
posted by coriolisdave at 8:36 PM on May 17, 2023 [15 favorites]
Why did they make Ted so stupid as to confuse it with the Justice League?
I actually think he was joking there, though that in itself is strange because it was the same format joke as the “Ted genuinely confuses things” joke structure we’ve been subjected to, so it’s a weird comedic consistency. Ted doesn’t normally know he’s being funny.
I have to wonder if one of the key differences between seasons 1/2 and this one is that we’re no longer living through a global public health emergency? I think we needed this silly show in 2020 and were very forgiving of its flaws because they were also its strengths at that period of time?
posted by chill at 11:50 PM on May 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
I actually think he was joking there, though that in itself is strange because it was the same format joke as the “Ted genuinely confuses things” joke structure we’ve been subjected to, so it’s a weird comedic consistency. Ted doesn’t normally know he’s being funny.
I have to wonder if one of the key differences between seasons 1/2 and this one is that we’re no longer living through a global public health emergency? I think we needed this silly show in 2020 and were very forgiving of its flaws because they were also its strengths at that period of time?
posted by chill at 11:50 PM on May 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
Not read all your comments yet, but:
Rebecca lion power posing to her younger self
and
Danny turning psychopathic natural born killer
were worth the entire crap season.
Seriously that 30s scene of lions breath pose was fucking amazing.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 12:09 AM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Rebecca lion power posing to her younger self
and
Danny turning psychopathic natural born killer
were worth the entire crap season.
Seriously that 30s scene of lions breath pose was fucking amazing.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 12:09 AM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Oh and so she did become a mother after all - to her own inner child.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 12:17 AM on May 18, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by St. Peepsburg at 12:17 AM on May 18, 2023 [9 favorites]
yeah I kind of appreciate how the fortune teller subplot wound up going in a sort of "shift the way you look at the world" direction, where Rebecca seems to have taken the "mother" thing much more metaphorically, growing into her position as a team/community leader (and/or, in this case, the only adult in the room)
posted by DoctorFedora at 12:50 AM on May 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 12:50 AM on May 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
I also like how, just before the meeting with Edwin Afuko, Rebecca saw the toy soldier from Ted as protection, and the green matchbook from Sam as motivation or a reminder of who Afuko is. She drew strength from those relationships.
posted by harriet vane at 3:23 AM on May 18, 2023 [11 favorites]
posted by harriet vane at 3:23 AM on May 18, 2023 [11 favorites]
The actor playing Nick is reportedly playing his childhood violin in that scene. His wife, about whom I know zip, is playing the piano accompaniment. I admire and envy those who can play musical instruments. Those details may not add to the scene but they are fun facts for some of us.
posted by Bella Donna at 4:59 AM on May 18, 2023 [22 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 4:59 AM on May 18, 2023 [22 favorites]
Ted doesn’t normally know he’s being funny.
I still think Ted's "Ted Lasso" personality construct has been disintegrating over the last few episodes, it's why his anecdotes don't land (or are unintentionally offensive) and his jokes don't work like they used to. As he's actually becoming a more authentic person, Ted is less able to perform the protective persona he's worn for so long.
Given Keeley's line to Rebecca and Roy's simultaneous appearance over her shoulder as she said it, I actually don't think they're necessarily back together. I think there was a real reconciliation, but I do wonder if the scene with Phoebe's teacher wasn't only for her to serve as catalyst for Roy's apology to Keeley. (And I think that Phoebe's teacher seems a better fit for Roy romantically, actually.)
Rebecca was fantastic this episode, and her scene with Higgins was hysterical. Higgins continues to be the single funniest character for me because Jeremy Swift's physical comedy is sublime, and we have been deprived of Rebecca/Leslie scenes for too long.
posted by LooseFilter at 6:43 AM on May 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
I still think Ted's "Ted Lasso" personality construct has been disintegrating over the last few episodes, it's why his anecdotes don't land (or are unintentionally offensive) and his jokes don't work like they used to. As he's actually becoming a more authentic person, Ted is less able to perform the protective persona he's worn for so long.
Given Keeley's line to Rebecca and Roy's simultaneous appearance over her shoulder as she said it, I actually don't think they're necessarily back together. I think there was a real reconciliation, but I do wonder if the scene with Phoebe's teacher wasn't only for her to serve as catalyst for Roy's apology to Keeley. (And I think that Phoebe's teacher seems a better fit for Roy romantically, actually.)
Rebecca was fantastic this episode, and her scene with Higgins was hysterical. Higgins continues to be the single funniest character for me because Jeremy Swift's physical comedy is sublime, and we have been deprived of Rebecca/Leslie scenes for too long.
posted by LooseFilter at 6:43 AM on May 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
I am not a fan of the season I admit, but even with the most annoying plot lurches there is often something in there that sits ok with the overall idea of the show. Afuko coming back in is somewhat useful to advance the idea that Toxic Masculinity is mostly constructed by and for childlike brattishness in adult men. Afuko has the advantage in a toxic system of having a lot of money, as does everyone in that dining room. They can fight back with money and the white elders can apply their racial position in the class system to demean Afutu and exclude him, but they are silent. The show suggests this is because they are silly children, undeveloped and unused to being disagreed with. Or that they are so shallow that they can easily be paid off for similarly brattish ends. Afutu is a caricature of this kind of bloke - wants all the toys, wants to dominate.
It takes an outsider who has met and now loves her child self to speak up and say what the adult needs to say: not all our stupid, brattish wants need to be satisfied, we could meet larger needs by thinking of others. The ethics of care.
There’s also a bit of a play in this whole series of nodding to Robert Bly’s Iron John. That every man must go through his Ashes, and how he deals with these Ashes defines the man he will become. The women in this series must similarly go through them. Rebecca in this episode has seemingly come to the end of her Ashes and has roared into adult strength. She can now spend her money not on beating Rupert, but on supporting the sisterhood.
Whatever happened between Nate and Rupert also seems to have catalysed both to reflect and do better. I think they are not big enough growths to be borne by what we have actually seen on screen but both have had the impetus of a woman modeling the right way to adult. Jade is a sexy lamp, sure, but her dialogue with Nate in this episode also modeled asking what others need of you in their distress, showing calmness and understanding without babying or cajoling or trying to solve the problem. Rebecca has spoken up for the right things to Rupert in telling him not to be a cheating fucknut with his secretary. This episode a small gesture towards Getting It is to sub in a less obvious sexual harassment target in his new hire. [I think both guys are assholes tho, but I guess here’s some cookies for small steps]
posted by honey-barbara at 6:46 AM on May 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
It takes an outsider who has met and now loves her child self to speak up and say what the adult needs to say: not all our stupid, brattish wants need to be satisfied, we could meet larger needs by thinking of others. The ethics of care.
There’s also a bit of a play in this whole series of nodding to Robert Bly’s Iron John. That every man must go through his Ashes, and how he deals with these Ashes defines the man he will become. The women in this series must similarly go through them. Rebecca in this episode has seemingly come to the end of her Ashes and has roared into adult strength. She can now spend her money not on beating Rupert, but on supporting the sisterhood.
Whatever happened between Nate and Rupert also seems to have catalysed both to reflect and do better. I think they are not big enough growths to be borne by what we have actually seen on screen but both have had the impetus of a woman modeling the right way to adult. Jade is a sexy lamp, sure, but her dialogue with Nate in this episode also modeled asking what others need of you in their distress, showing calmness and understanding without babying or cajoling or trying to solve the problem. Rebecca has spoken up for the right things to Rupert in telling him not to be a cheating fucknut with his secretary. This episode a small gesture towards Getting It is to sub in a less obvious sexual harassment target in his new hire. [I think both guys are assholes tho, but I guess here’s some cookies for small steps]
posted by honey-barbara at 6:46 AM on May 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
Also, the music continues to be absolutely stellar, Marcus Mumford's eclectic and truly unexpected choices are among the best parts of the show. Arvo Pärt's music as the soundtrack to Nate's finding peace and comfort?? Perfect choice, no notes.
posted by LooseFilter at 6:46 AM on May 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by LooseFilter at 6:46 AM on May 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
The actor playing Nick is reportedly playing his childhood violin in that scene. His wife, about whom I know zip, is playing the piano accompaniment. I admire and envy those who can play musical instruments. Those details may not add to the scene but they are fun facts for some of us.
There was a sense of familiarity in that scene and I thought, "Well, either this guy can really act or he knows how to play the violin." Cool to know it's the latter and it's his own violin!
posted by Atreides at 6:53 AM on May 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
There was a sense of familiarity in that scene and I thought, "Well, either this guy can really act or he knows how to play the violin." Cool to know it's the latter and it's his own violin!
posted by Atreides at 6:53 AM on May 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
It’s a small detail, but Rupert misspells Akufo’s name in his text to Rebecca.
posted by ColdChef at 6:53 AM on May 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by ColdChef at 6:53 AM on May 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
crossoverman: Why did they bring back the plot about a Super League from last season?
That wasn't the plot from last season. Last season the plot was that Edwin wanted to buy out Sam's contract so Sam would play on Raja Casablanca, the team that Akufo had bought, which he wanted to fill with the best players from African countries. The Super League would have been a global, exclusive, and very expensive group of the best football teams from all over the world.
ColdChef: It’s a small detail, but Rupert misspells Akufo’s name in his text to Rebecca.
I think I see what you did there if so A+ subcomment
posted by tzikeh at 7:16 AM on May 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
That wasn't the plot from last season. Last season the plot was that Edwin wanted to buy out Sam's contract so Sam would play on Raja Casablanca, the team that Akufo had bought, which he wanted to fill with the best players from African countries. The Super League would have been a global, exclusive, and very expensive group of the best football teams from all over the world.
ColdChef: It’s a small detail, but Rupert misspells Akufo’s name in his text to Rebecca.
I think I see what you did there if so A+ subcomment
posted by tzikeh at 7:16 AM on May 18, 2023 [6 favorites]
I thought this one was ok - there were parts I really liked and parts I thought were bizarre.
A lot has already been said, so here are some bullet points:
- I thought the Dani-as-psychopath thing was cute comic relief and don't feel the need to over-analyze it.
- Roy/Keeley didn't bother me because she clearly never wanted him to leave in the first place. Also, his owning up to his own mistakes was contrasted with Jack being a chicken-shit who couldn't even own up to cutting off Keeley's funding.
- Spiegel im Spiegel gets me every damn time. As a former musician with a lot of the same baggage as Nate, I thought that storyline was particularly moving.
- That said, the overall treatment of Nate's storyline remains awful. Most of his apparent growth has been off-screen or wrapped up in the Jade thing (being nice to someone you're sleeping with or want to sleep with is not a flex), and we've seen almost nothing about the impacts of his ambition and insecurity that brought things to a head in S2. I like the comment above that he should've appeared much more villainous on TV before being revealed to be miserable.
- I particularly liked Rebecca's recounting of Rupert's story. Almost no one is 100% asshole, and Rebecca did love him. It was a nice moment for both of them to remember what brought them together in the first place, to establish him as a human being. Rupert saw that as an opportunity for reconciliation (or at least banging) but Rebecca released her need either to impress him or beat him. Well done.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 7:19 AM on May 18, 2023 [10 favorites]
A lot has already been said, so here are some bullet points:
- I thought the Dani-as-psychopath thing was cute comic relief and don't feel the need to over-analyze it.
- Roy/Keeley didn't bother me because she clearly never wanted him to leave in the first place. Also, his owning up to his own mistakes was contrasted with Jack being a chicken-shit who couldn't even own up to cutting off Keeley's funding.
- Spiegel im Spiegel gets me every damn time. As a former musician with a lot of the same baggage as Nate, I thought that storyline was particularly moving.
- That said, the overall treatment of Nate's storyline remains awful. Most of his apparent growth has been off-screen or wrapped up in the Jade thing (being nice to someone you're sleeping with or want to sleep with is not a flex), and we've seen almost nothing about the impacts of his ambition and insecurity that brought things to a head in S2. I like the comment above that he should've appeared much more villainous on TV before being revealed to be miserable.
- I particularly liked Rebecca's recounting of Rupert's story. Almost no one is 100% asshole, and Rebecca did love him. It was a nice moment for both of them to remember what brought them together in the first place, to establish him as a human being. Rupert saw that as an opportunity for reconciliation (or at least banging) but Rebecca released her need either to impress him or beat him. Well done.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 7:19 AM on May 18, 2023 [10 favorites]
I don’t care that it’s not as good as the first two seasons. I lapped it up. I got teary-eyed at one point. I’m OK with wish fulfillment. At least when it comes to the show, and partly because things are really hard and shitty for a lot of people a lot of the time. Including me. So it’s not that any of the points people have shared are wrong. It’s not even that I disagree necessarily. It’s just that I love this show even when it doesn’t show up as consistently or thoughtfully as it has in the past.
This is my feeling too. I've had a little bit of a hard time managing the fact that the shows haven't been consistent with emotional tone (like some of them are just huge bummers and some, like this one, are all about the schmaltz and some unrealistic plot turns) but for me, I like when there's a bit fo schmaltz as opposed to either SRS BZNS stuff or just inexplicable Zava/Poochy kinds of interludes.
My fave part that I don't think I saw mentioned was when the acidhead tour bus driver gives Roy the thumbs up for his hippie t-shirt.
I think we're supposed to be seeing Rupert's decline ("hey you left your phone in the car") and Rebecca's ascension and even though it's been a little hamfisted I am okay with it. I just watched "The Afterparty" over the past week or so and seeing Sam Richardson both as Afuko and the very nerdy Aniq in that show has made me appreciate his acting in Ted Lasso even more.
For those who aren't actual soccer fans: the European Super League was a major pie-in-the-face thing
Oh thank you, that is useful context.
posted by jessamyn at 7:50 AM on May 18, 2023 [9 favorites]
This is my feeling too. I've had a little bit of a hard time managing the fact that the shows haven't been consistent with emotional tone (like some of them are just huge bummers and some, like this one, are all about the schmaltz and some unrealistic plot turns) but for me, I like when there's a bit fo schmaltz as opposed to either SRS BZNS stuff or just inexplicable Zava/Poochy kinds of interludes.
My fave part that I don't think I saw mentioned was when the acidhead tour bus driver gives Roy the thumbs up for his hippie t-shirt.
I think we're supposed to be seeing Rupert's decline ("hey you left your phone in the car") and Rebecca's ascension and even though it's been a little hamfisted I am okay with it. I just watched "The Afterparty" over the past week or so and seeing Sam Richardson both as Afuko and the very nerdy Aniq in that show has made me appreciate his acting in Ted Lasso even more.
For those who aren't actual soccer fans: the European Super League was a major pie-in-the-face thing
Oh thank you, that is useful context.
posted by jessamyn at 7:50 AM on May 18, 2023 [9 favorites]
I really really liked the format of Nate's apology to Will. He came in, did the locker room cleanup and setup, and left a note. That puts zero obligation on Will to accept or refuse the apology in person. I know some people think the only correct way to apologize is in person but I disagree.
posted by cooker girl at 8:16 AM on May 18, 2023 [30 favorites]
posted by cooker girl at 8:16 AM on May 18, 2023 [30 favorites]
I liked this one. Even though I agree with all the comments about how many of the characters are still acting completely out of character and some of the plot choices are nonsensical. I think what it comes down to is that I'm willing to forgive a lot if it's genuinely funny. Ok sure, Dani would never be that way and the chips thing had me super upset. But I also like seeing Bizarro World Dani and how the change messed up Van Damme's head. If this were a different series, I would find that hysterical. So I forgive it.
I loved Jamie's gift to Roy, and that the name joke works even better because they didn't show it, and the way that Phoebe finally got it. I think she's another insufferable child actress and only gets away with it because she's got a British accent. Less kids. The whole Uncle Day party itself made no sense and was only an excuse to put the gift gag in with a child present to make the extra gag, but it was one of the funniest and most charming moments in the season, so it I can't complain.
I loved the Poland joke. I agree that having her leave was a necessary plot device so that Nate could be forced into introspection, and that it was more proof that her whole character was a plot device and not a person, but that joke almost redeemed it anyway.
I completely believe Roy getting back together with Keeley. She was never over him, it bugged me that she got together with Jack so soon after their breakup, and he broke up with her over a dumb reason and was never over her either. Sometimes people break up for dumb reasons, and lots of broken up people get back together for dumb reasons. Put the two together - this one could have happened over a mixed up sandwich order and I'd still have been okay about it. Having it come from him realizing he loved her and he fucked up? Yes.
I really need to know whether Nate quit or was fired. I don't trust the character enough to believe what he said to Jade was true based on what he showed us (though the writers seem to be lazy enough that they really might think that we're just supposed to believe that he's authentic and true with her, and only a dick when it comes to everything soccer). I never thought I would come around on him, but if he did quit, and he is having a crisis of conscience, I totally believe he would curl up in a ball and not know how to come out. It seems like he's someone who failure hurts. I loved the violin - it felt so unexpected and truthful. My gut feeling (based on the clip of Ted watching the West Ham news on TV) is that Ted is going to go to him. Or that he's already gone to his apartment and didn't find him there, and left some sort of note, so that Nate coming to him feels asked-for. I hope he doesn't end up back at Richmond - he doesn't deserve it. And his dad's speech was stupid and unbelievable - so much less would have done so much more. But I'm ready for a tiny bit of redemption and I wasn't before.
I hated that not one person suggested to Sam that some back channel thing must have kept him off the team. Even the sportcasters assumed he'd be playing and he was a standout player. And his run in with Akufo the season before wasn't a secret. Even if it was said half-jokingly, like a conspiracy theory, I just don't believe no one would say hey, something's fishy here.
I don't believe Roy would wear those shirts out of the house. Or that he needed to. Is it character development if she doesn't see him wearing them?
I kind of miss Ted. Back in the day, I would tune in to Ted Lasso to see Ted Lasso. But in this season, the way he's been written hasn't had any of the real insight or impact on the other characters or honestly even humor as he used to. It's like they're trying to ease out the most important part of the series partly by making it suck when it shows up. So I really miss him. But also I don't?
My last stupid quibble was after the food throwing - so Rebecca is looking into her compact mirror and cleaning up but still leaves sauce all over half her face? How stupid do they think we are? Just lose the mirror if you want sauce on her face. Holy fuck.
posted by Mchelly at 8:27 AM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
I loved Jamie's gift to Roy, and that the name joke works even better because they didn't show it, and the way that Phoebe finally got it. I think she's another insufferable child actress and only gets away with it because she's got a British accent. Less kids. The whole Uncle Day party itself made no sense and was only an excuse to put the gift gag in with a child present to make the extra gag, but it was one of the funniest and most charming moments in the season, so it I can't complain.
I loved the Poland joke. I agree that having her leave was a necessary plot device so that Nate could be forced into introspection, and that it was more proof that her whole character was a plot device and not a person, but that joke almost redeemed it anyway.
I completely believe Roy getting back together with Keeley. She was never over him, it bugged me that she got together with Jack so soon after their breakup, and he broke up with her over a dumb reason and was never over her either. Sometimes people break up for dumb reasons, and lots of broken up people get back together for dumb reasons. Put the two together - this one could have happened over a mixed up sandwich order and I'd still have been okay about it. Having it come from him realizing he loved her and he fucked up? Yes.
I really need to know whether Nate quit or was fired. I don't trust the character enough to believe what he said to Jade was true based on what he showed us (though the writers seem to be lazy enough that they really might think that we're just supposed to believe that he's authentic and true with her, and only a dick when it comes to everything soccer). I never thought I would come around on him, but if he did quit, and he is having a crisis of conscience, I totally believe he would curl up in a ball and not know how to come out. It seems like he's someone who failure hurts. I loved the violin - it felt so unexpected and truthful. My gut feeling (based on the clip of Ted watching the West Ham news on TV) is that Ted is going to go to him. Or that he's already gone to his apartment and didn't find him there, and left some sort of note, so that Nate coming to him feels asked-for. I hope he doesn't end up back at Richmond - he doesn't deserve it. And his dad's speech was stupid and unbelievable - so much less would have done so much more. But I'm ready for a tiny bit of redemption and I wasn't before.
I hated that not one person suggested to Sam that some back channel thing must have kept him off the team. Even the sportcasters assumed he'd be playing and he was a standout player. And his run in with Akufo the season before wasn't a secret. Even if it was said half-jokingly, like a conspiracy theory, I just don't believe no one would say hey, something's fishy here.
I don't believe Roy would wear those shirts out of the house. Or that he needed to. Is it character development if she doesn't see him wearing them?
I kind of miss Ted. Back in the day, I would tune in to Ted Lasso to see Ted Lasso. But in this season, the way he's been written hasn't had any of the real insight or impact on the other characters or honestly even humor as he used to. It's like they're trying to ease out the most important part of the series partly by making it suck when it shows up. So I really miss him. But also I don't?
My last stupid quibble was after the food throwing - so Rebecca is looking into her compact mirror and cleaning up but still leaves sauce all over half her face? How stupid do they think we are? Just lose the mirror if you want sauce on her face. Holy fuck.
posted by Mchelly at 8:27 AM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Phoebe does feel like a crucial part of the Roy Kent arc. She's the only person who's really able to cut through his gruff facade. He's able to soften because she simultaneously adores him, and isn't afraid to call him out.
He wants to wear the shirt in public. Not because tie-dye is his thing, but because he wants to be publicly, bravely more open. Wearing the shirt is bravery for him. Stripping it is a setback. Going back to retrieve it isn't just him snagging it because Phoebe gave it, but because he's choosing to not give up.
We see the compromise later in the episode where he's wearing a darker tie-dye.
Roy's never going to be bright and sunny like Dani, but he's realizing that being dark and broody has mostly served only to hurt himself and others around him.
posted by explosion at 9:56 AM on May 18, 2023 [17 favorites]
He wants to wear the shirt in public. Not because tie-dye is his thing, but because he wants to be publicly, bravely more open. Wearing the shirt is bravery for him. Stripping it is a setback. Going back to retrieve it isn't just him snagging it because Phoebe gave it, but because he's choosing to not give up.
We see the compromise later in the episode where he's wearing a darker tie-dye.
Roy's never going to be bright and sunny like Dani, but he's realizing that being dark and broody has mostly served only to hurt himself and others around him.
posted by explosion at 9:56 AM on May 18, 2023 [17 favorites]
It's like they're trying to ease out the most important part of the series partly by making it suck when it shows up. So I really miss him. But also I don't?
Gotta make room for the AFC Richmond show they seem to be pivoting toward. I think the backdoor piloting has been a lot of what I haven't liked about this season, actually. (More fundamentally, it's an attempt to turn this show into another, different show, but with mostly the same characters. It's really weirded this season.)
posted by LooseFilter at 10:06 AM on May 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Gotta make room for the AFC Richmond show they seem to be pivoting toward. I think the backdoor piloting has been a lot of what I haven't liked about this season, actually. (More fundamentally, it's an attempt to turn this show into another, different show, but with mostly the same characters. It's really weirded this season.)
posted by LooseFilter at 10:06 AM on May 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
It’s just that I love this show even when it doesn’t show up as consistently or thoughtfully as it has in the past.
Also this, though.
posted by LooseFilter at 10:08 AM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Also this, though.
posted by LooseFilter at 10:08 AM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
By far the best joke of the episode for me was the Canadian tv commentators after Rojas kicks the ball into Van Damme:
Commentator 1: "Oh, for gosh sakes!"
Commentator 2: "Sorry about the language there, folks!"
Agree with everyone about what a complete mess this has become of everyone constantly acting out of character and just ridiculous stuff like Nate's dad giving him the exact perfect closure he has always wanted. Is this a fantasy show? Was that a dream sequence? To a lesser degree, I'm also pretty tired of pointless, inorganic callbacks (toy soldier and matchbook, tea spitting, I feel like there were a bunch more in this episode). It's like instead of having a really tight, finessed plot, let's just just have a bunch of empty signifiers to imply that the show has been carefully written.
posted by snofoam at 10:17 AM on May 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
Commentator 1: "Oh, for gosh sakes!"
Commentator 2: "Sorry about the language there, folks!"
Agree with everyone about what a complete mess this has become of everyone constantly acting out of character and just ridiculous stuff like Nate's dad giving him the exact perfect closure he has always wanted. Is this a fantasy show? Was that a dream sequence? To a lesser degree, I'm also pretty tired of pointless, inorganic callbacks (toy soldier and matchbook, tea spitting, I feel like there were a bunch more in this episode). It's like instead of having a really tight, finessed plot, let's just just have a bunch of empty signifiers to imply that the show has been carefully written.
posted by snofoam at 10:17 AM on May 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
seeing Sam Richardson both as Afuko and the very nerdy Aniq in that show has made me appreciate his acting in Ted Lasso even more.
Richardson has a very open and friendly mien that he is able to weaponize to a disturbing degree. He's become one of those actors that I see in something and immediately think Oh, he's gonna turn out to be the villain, isn't he...
posted by Etrigan at 10:22 AM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Richardson has a very open and friendly mien that he is able to weaponize to a disturbing degree. He's become one of those actors that I see in something and immediately think Oh, he's gonna turn out to be the villain, isn't he...
posted by Etrigan at 10:22 AM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Gotta make room for the AFC Richmond show they seem to be pivoting toward. I think the backdoor piloting has been a lot of what I haven't liked about this season, actually. (More fundamentally, it's an attempt to turn this show into another, different show, but with mostly the same characters. It's really weirded this season.)
I've seen a bunch of comments like this, but do we have any indication that this is what they're actually doing?
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 10:52 AM on May 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
I've seen a bunch of comments like this, but do we have any indication that this is what they're actually doing?
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 10:52 AM on May 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Jason Sudeikis interview 3/6/2023:
There have been talks as to whether the comedy could be spun off into a new iteration. (We vote for The World According to Keeley Jones). Sudeikis, who developed Ted Lasso with Bill Lawrence, Brendan Hunt, and Joe Kelly, seems open to the idea.
“Yeah, I think that we’ve set the table for all sorts of folks…to get to watch the further telling of these stories,” he said. “Again, I can’t help but take the question as flattery for what all of us that were working on the show has tried to do. It’s really kind of folks to even consider that because you never know what’s gonna happen when you make things. The fact that people want more, even if it’s a different avenue is lovely.”
It's been a hugely popular show for Apple, (witness the volume of comments in Fanfare for this show compared to Shrinking, which was a far better-written show this year), and the sticking point for a 4th season is that Sudeikis doesn't want to continue past Season 3. So if Apple wants to continue to capitalize on the show's popularity, a spinoff seems to be the way forward.
posted by creepygirl at 11:34 AM on May 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
There have been talks as to whether the comedy could be spun off into a new iteration. (We vote for The World According to Keeley Jones). Sudeikis, who developed Ted Lasso with Bill Lawrence, Brendan Hunt, and Joe Kelly, seems open to the idea.
“Yeah, I think that we’ve set the table for all sorts of folks…to get to watch the further telling of these stories,” he said. “Again, I can’t help but take the question as flattery for what all of us that were working on the show has tried to do. It’s really kind of folks to even consider that because you never know what’s gonna happen when you make things. The fact that people want more, even if it’s a different avenue is lovely.”
It's been a hugely popular show for Apple, (witness the volume of comments in Fanfare for this show compared to Shrinking, which was a far better-written show this year), and the sticking point for a 4th season is that Sudeikis doesn't want to continue past Season 3. So if Apple wants to continue to capitalize on the show's popularity, a spinoff seems to be the way forward.
posted by creepygirl at 11:34 AM on May 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
If the show begets another show, will it be what Frasier was to Cheers? Who would be the lead?
posted by seawallrunner at 11:35 AM on May 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by seawallrunner at 11:35 AM on May 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
They should do a show based around the Higginses (and of course the Directors of Beboperations).
I feel that earlier in the show they produced jokes that were in service of the stories told, now it feels more as if they do it the other way around. I still think it’s funny, it’s just not as good as it used to be.
posted by boogieboy at 11:44 AM on May 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
I feel that earlier in the show they produced jokes that were in service of the stories told, now it feels more as if they do it the other way around. I still think it’s funny, it’s just not as good as it used to be.
posted by boogieboy at 11:44 AM on May 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
If the show begets another show, will it be what Frasier was to Cheers? Who would be the lead?
It's more like Frasier begetting Cheers. That said, I think if there was a spin off, you'd be wild to separate it from the football club. It's the ensemble that helps Ted Lasso succeed and just pivoting away on one character would greatly reduce what is so enjoyable about the show now.
posted by Atreides at 12:01 PM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
It's more like Frasier begetting Cheers. That said, I think if there was a spin off, you'd be wild to separate it from the football club. It's the ensemble that helps Ted Lasso succeed and just pivoting away on one character would greatly reduce what is so enjoyable about the show now.
posted by Atreides at 12:01 PM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
I don’t really know what spin-off they can do. What would an “AFC Richmond” show even be? Just a show about a soccer team? Or would they Frasier it and just have one character in a totally different show? “KJPR Cincinnati” where she is running her company in middle America for some reason and has to earn the grudging respect of staff and clients who don’t understand her vibe?
posted by snofoam at 12:01 PM on May 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by snofoam at 12:01 PM on May 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
explosion: "He wants to wear the shirt in public. Not because tie-dye is his thing, but because he wants to be publicly, bravely more open. Wearing the shirt is bravery for him. Stripping it is a setback. Going back to retrieve it isn't just him snagging it because Phoebe gave it, but because he's choosing to not give up."
Yes, exactly. It should've been a more gradual process instead of something prompted by an angry pep talk from Rebecca, but Roy has been growing braver.
It was telling that he started off the season (pre-Zava) wanting the team to play 4-4-2 — because it was tried-and-true, he argued, and because the players would know it well — but to me it came off as Roy trying to cover up that he didn't think he could measure up to the departed Nate in terms of tactical insight. He didn't want to try something and have it fail.
I think that the tie-dye T-shirt would've been a better allegory a few episodes ago — not as something that triggers a revelation, but as a small indicator of character growth, much like how doing the press conference was a sign of growth. I think it works quite well on its own. Roy snarls at the guy in the hallway who laughs at his shirt, but he also understands that he'd much rather be the guy who wears the shirt and doesn't give a shit if anyone laughs.
It does bug me how much headcanon we're all having to make to join these threads together, but the threads are there. This season needed different pacing and a better arrangement of narrative setups and payoffs.
posted by savetheclocktower at 12:08 PM on May 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
Yes, exactly. It should've been a more gradual process instead of something prompted by an angry pep talk from Rebecca, but Roy has been growing braver.
It was telling that he started off the season (pre-Zava) wanting the team to play 4-4-2 — because it was tried-and-true, he argued, and because the players would know it well — but to me it came off as Roy trying to cover up that he didn't think he could measure up to the departed Nate in terms of tactical insight. He didn't want to try something and have it fail.
I think that the tie-dye T-shirt would've been a better allegory a few episodes ago — not as something that triggers a revelation, but as a small indicator of character growth, much like how doing the press conference was a sign of growth. I think it works quite well on its own. Roy snarls at the guy in the hallway who laughs at his shirt, but he also understands that he'd much rather be the guy who wears the shirt and doesn't give a shit if anyone laughs.
It does bug me how much headcanon we're all having to make to join these threads together, but the threads are there. This season needed different pacing and a better arrangement of narrative setups and payoffs.
posted by savetheclocktower at 12:08 PM on May 18, 2023 [7 favorites]
Of course, they could really Cheers it and do a spinoff focused on The Crown and Anchor. Speaking of which, I feel like they really made the owner look much older in this episode, maybe the lighting or something.
posted by snofoam at 12:13 PM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by snofoam at 12:13 PM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
Writers: "Hey Nick, we need to sort out Nate's issues with his dad, which will then fix his self-hatred. Do you have a special skill that might make Nate's dad proud of him in a way he's never been before?"
Nick: "I can play violin"
Writers: "Perfect! This makes little to no sense for the character but if you play it well, it saves us from having to do any of the hard work of making Nate likeable again."
Nick: "I'll bring in my own childhood violin."
Writers: "Sure, whatever. We've moved on to Rebecca's inner child now. We need to fix a problem that never existed before we made it one!"
posted by crossoverman at 4:06 PM on May 18, 2023 [13 favorites]
Nick: "I can play violin"
Writers: "Perfect! This makes little to no sense for the character but if you play it well, it saves us from having to do any of the hard work of making Nate likeable again."
Nick: "I'll bring in my own childhood violin."
Writers: "Sure, whatever. We've moved on to Rebecca's inner child now. We need to fix a problem that never existed before we made it one!"
posted by crossoverman at 4:06 PM on May 18, 2023 [13 favorites]
That scene with Nate’s father situating his fatherly apology in Nate’s apparent ‘genius’ is so annoying in that it is a) incredibly trite, and b) fosters the long term narcissistic flaw of Nate’s which has again been appeased. Ugh. He should have said “I love my bumbling, bratty son and whatever he does is fine. There will always be a supplicating woman figure in your life to help you deal. Just like there has been in mine [fist bump] Bratty dudes for the win, amirite.”
posted by honey-barbara at 7:57 PM on May 18, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by honey-barbara at 7:57 PM on May 18, 2023 [10 favorites]
so I just found about one cool bit of continuity they hid in this episode: Roy’s sister was busy working at the hospital, which is why she was unable to attend Phoebe’s parent-teacher conference last season. This week we finally see her, and it turns out she was in fact busy at the time… treating Dr. Sharon after her bike crash.
posted by DoctorFedora at 10:26 PM on May 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 10:26 PM on May 18, 2023 [5 favorites]
This week we finally see her, and it turns out she was in fact busy at the time… treating Dr. Sharon after her bike crash.
We already knew this, right? I think this was already made clear on the show. Or perhaps that was back when the show implied things that the audience were allowed to get themselves?
posted by crossoverman at 11:38 PM on May 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
We already knew this, right? I think this was already made clear on the show. Or perhaps that was back when the show implied things that the audience were allowed to get themselves?
posted by crossoverman at 11:38 PM on May 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
yeah, previously it was just implied by her Kentian eyebrows, but it was never confirmed that that specific doctor was actually her until we saw Roy and his sister (confirming she is his sister and not just some random doctor) together in this episode
posted by DoctorFedora at 11:51 PM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 11:51 PM on May 18, 2023 [3 favorites]
When Trent sees Roy in the tie-dye, I choose to believe he’s thinking “oh, so I now have a competitor in the cool T-shirt department?”
posted by azpenguin at 6:22 AM on May 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by azpenguin at 6:22 AM on May 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
This episode had some fun moments, but continues this season's somewhat chaotic plotting and I am wondering if they took a page from the Dadaists and thrown some script pages in the air and reassembled them in random order.
I continue to not care about Nate's emotional processing, and while "hey, I tidied up your locker room, here's a sprig of lavender" is a nice enough action, I don't think it comes close to addressing the more specific spiteful hurt of tearing up the 'Believe' banner. And now Jade has shuffled off screen, continuing to be a minimally characterized enigma plot device. Overall, Nate seems to be having a redemption/growth arc that has nothing to do with what we've seen as his flaws and his bad behaviors through last season's heel-turn and the early-season 'mean coach' shtick.
I expected Sam to more obviously try and piss off Akufo by being nice and positive after bonding over that approach with his dad before.
As for Keeley, of *course* Jack is going to pull some cowardly bullshit like that. Gosh, nothing that could be done about the funding and I'm on another continent. Having the amount of money turn out to be a sum that's easily picked up by Rebecca just makes Jack look even pettier. Barbara's interactions with Keeley are still weird - do you even want to be working for her?
I will say Rebecca's growth seems entirely earned, though, with her being able to view things involving Rupert without being tied to seeing it through the lens of her relationship (past and present) to him. She's had a heck of a journey in the show from "I'm going to fuck up this team because it will make my ex sad" to "this team and the experience the public has with it and the way it's important to fans and people I don't know is a precious and wonderful thing and we should protect that."
And Leslie continues to be perfect. I adore him.
posted by rmd1023 at 8:31 AM on May 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
I continue to not care about Nate's emotional processing, and while "hey, I tidied up your locker room, here's a sprig of lavender" is a nice enough action, I don't think it comes close to addressing the more specific spiteful hurt of tearing up the 'Believe' banner. And now Jade has shuffled off screen, continuing to be a minimally characterized enigma plot device. Overall, Nate seems to be having a redemption/growth arc that has nothing to do with what we've seen as his flaws and his bad behaviors through last season's heel-turn and the early-season 'mean coach' shtick.
I expected Sam to more obviously try and piss off Akufo by being nice and positive after bonding over that approach with his dad before.
As for Keeley, of *course* Jack is going to pull some cowardly bullshit like that. Gosh, nothing that could be done about the funding and I'm on another continent. Having the amount of money turn out to be a sum that's easily picked up by Rebecca just makes Jack look even pettier. Barbara's interactions with Keeley are still weird - do you even want to be working for her?
I will say Rebecca's growth seems entirely earned, though, with her being able to view things involving Rupert without being tied to seeing it through the lens of her relationship (past and present) to him. She's had a heck of a journey in the show from "I'm going to fuck up this team because it will make my ex sad" to "this team and the experience the public has with it and the way it's important to fans and people I don't know is a precious and wonderful thing and we should protect that."
And Leslie continues to be perfect. I adore him.
posted by rmd1023 at 8:31 AM on May 19, 2023 [8 favorites]
“Mae, is that short for something?”
“Maybe”
posted by meijusa at 2:24 AM on May 20, 2023 [7 favorites]
“Maybe”
posted by meijusa at 2:24 AM on May 20, 2023 [7 favorites]
As he's actually becoming a more authentic person, Ted is less able to perform the protective persona he's worn for so long.
I've been hoping and praying this is true since you first suggested it. It would be such a great bit of character development that I'd happily overlook a lot of other stuff.
Slight ambiguous spoiler for The Good Place, 4th season: I felt that the second half of the 4th season was stalling, spinning its wheels in place. But the ending actually needed that feeling of being Done in order to really finish in a satisfying way.
If Ted Lasso has a similar approach to wrapping up Ted's character growth, as you've suggested, I'll be so happy.
posted by harriet vane at 3:15 AM on May 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
I've been hoping and praying this is true since you first suggested it. It would be such a great bit of character development that I'd happily overlook a lot of other stuff.
Slight ambiguous spoiler for The Good Place, 4th season: I felt that the second half of the 4th season was stalling, spinning its wheels in place. But the ending actually needed that feeling of being Done in order to really finish in a satisfying way.
If Ted Lasso has a similar approach to wrapping up Ted's character growth, as you've suggested, I'll be so happy.
posted by harriet vane at 3:15 AM on May 20, 2023 [4 favorites]
I loved Rebecca in the Akufo pitch scenes.
Early Season 3 saw Rebecca seeking Zava just because Rupert wanted him. She specifically envied Rupert's ability to charm anyone and get what he wants. Her agency was tied to what Rupert wanted. (Then, she goes and "wins" Zava not by charming him, but by challenging him with a heartfelt speech.)
The Akufo pitch scene solidifies that growth. When Akufo asks the table if they're in for the Akufo League, one man says yes, then immediately Rupert turns to Rebecca to ask what she thinks. Her response, a callout that is full of everything warm and just and right with the world, reminds these men to do better and ultimately sways the rest of the room. Of course Rupert wanted to kiss her -- she charmed and steered the whole room with her charm, brilliance, and heart! Rebecca is not even the new Rupert; she has surpassed Rupert as a leader of men, simply by speaking her own truth, reminding these barons that there is more to the world than profit, and by doing so calling upon these men to do better.
The kiss thing didn't bother me because (as I read it) it had nothing to do with Rebecca and Rupert as a couple, and everything to do with Rebecca's power and position and magnetism. Agency is hers.
I also liked that Akufo is facing consequences for being a shithead. Akufo fucked over Sam in some ways that were easy for Akufo but considerable for Sam, for reasons borne of entitlement and spite...and Rebecca then fucked over Akufo by stymying his plan of the Akufo League, for reasons borne of genuine love for football and desire to keep it accessible to everyone.
Love how the writers wrote Rebecca this episode. 10/10 no notes
posted by nicodine at 10:44 AM on May 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
Early Season 3 saw Rebecca seeking Zava just because Rupert wanted him. She specifically envied Rupert's ability to charm anyone and get what he wants. Her agency was tied to what Rupert wanted. (Then, she goes and "wins" Zava not by charming him, but by challenging him with a heartfelt speech.)
The Akufo pitch scene solidifies that growth. When Akufo asks the table if they're in for the Akufo League, one man says yes, then immediately Rupert turns to Rebecca to ask what she thinks. Her response, a callout that is full of everything warm and just and right with the world, reminds these men to do better and ultimately sways the rest of the room. Of course Rupert wanted to kiss her -- she charmed and steered the whole room with her charm, brilliance, and heart! Rebecca is not even the new Rupert; she has surpassed Rupert as a leader of men, simply by speaking her own truth, reminding these barons that there is more to the world than profit, and by doing so calling upon these men to do better.
The kiss thing didn't bother me because (as I read it) it had nothing to do with Rebecca and Rupert as a couple, and everything to do with Rebecca's power and position and magnetism. Agency is hers.
I also liked that Akufo is facing consequences for being a shithead. Akufo fucked over Sam in some ways that were easy for Akufo but considerable for Sam, for reasons borne of entitlement and spite...and Rebecca then fucked over Akufo by stymying his plan of the Akufo League, for reasons borne of genuine love for football and desire to keep it accessible to everyone.
Love how the writers wrote Rebecca this episode. 10/10 no notes
posted by nicodine at 10:44 AM on May 21, 2023 [6 favorites]
The entire Keeley/Mae scene was gold for me, especially when Keeley actually called her Maybe.
posted by Night_owl at 5:36 AM on May 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by Night_owl at 5:36 AM on May 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
Had my father apologized to me just once, just fucking once, I would be able to be a smidge less bitter and angry and while a smidge isn't a lot, it's something.
I feel this in my bones. Co-signed.
I hope it’s not a drag that I’m such a fan but I’m a total fan.
Quite the opposite. I really enjoy the show and am perfectly happy to be uncritical about it. To each their own, but I find a lot of the hypercritical analysis tedious.
I kind of wish Roy had wound up with the teacher and Keeley and Jamie had gotten together. So glad we got to see Phoebe again - we haven't had enough of the Roy / Phoebe interaction this season. But I'm also good with Roy + Keeley getting back together.
Rebecca totally owned the episode. I really enjoyed Evil Dani. Hope to see a lot more of Cristo Fernández in other shows / movies.
@harriet vane - I've had a similar thought about Ted Lasso + Good Place. I'm really curious to see if Ted Lasso sticks the landing as well as the other show.
posted by jzb at 6:18 AM on May 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
I feel this in my bones. Co-signed.
I hope it’s not a drag that I’m such a fan but I’m a total fan.
Quite the opposite. I really enjoy the show and am perfectly happy to be uncritical about it. To each their own, but I find a lot of the hypercritical analysis tedious.
I kind of wish Roy had wound up with the teacher and Keeley and Jamie had gotten together. So glad we got to see Phoebe again - we haven't had enough of the Roy / Phoebe interaction this season. But I'm also good with Roy + Keeley getting back together.
Rebecca totally owned the episode. I really enjoyed Evil Dani. Hope to see a lot more of Cristo Fernández in other shows / movies.
@harriet vane - I've had a similar thought about Ted Lasso + Good Place. I'm really curious to see if Ted Lasso sticks the landing as well as the other show.
posted by jzb at 6:18 AM on May 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
I am glad some people are enjoying this. Any critical analysis isn't supposed to convince people not to like the show. I am glad this forum exists because it's good for discussion but I'm not here to shit on anyone else's good time. I just don't know where else to dig into the weeds like we can here.
I can see the tide turning on this show in other places but it's really hard to dig into these problems on Twitter, for example. And I don't have a handle on the exact kind of people that are in these threads in particular, but I've always found Metafilter/Fanfare to have a lot of writers and related people who know how to critically analyse TV and films. (As compared to Twitter, that is full of a lot of people who think they know how TV works and they really don't.)
And people liking the show really helps me to savour those bits that I do like, even though I'm mostly overwhelmed by what I don't like at the moment.
posted by crossoverman at 4:01 PM on May 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
I can see the tide turning on this show in other places but it's really hard to dig into these problems on Twitter, for example. And I don't have a handle on the exact kind of people that are in these threads in particular, but I've always found Metafilter/Fanfare to have a lot of writers and related people who know how to critically analyse TV and films. (As compared to Twitter, that is full of a lot of people who think they know how TV works and they really don't.)
And people liking the show really helps me to savour those bits that I do like, even though I'm mostly overwhelmed by what I don't like at the moment.
posted by crossoverman at 4:01 PM on May 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
DID EDWIN JUST THROW FOOD AT EVERYONE??!?! Apparently, yes.
I forgot to mention my biggest laugh at this episode was when I realized that he probably ordered Francis to throw food at everyone. (Akufo doesn't even shake hands himself.)
posted by mmoncur at 3:48 AM on May 23, 2023 [13 favorites]
I forgot to mention my biggest laugh at this episode was when I realized that he probably ordered Francis to throw food at everyone. (Akufo doesn't even shake hands himself.)
posted by mmoncur at 3:48 AM on May 23, 2023 [13 favorites]
And people liking the show really helps me to savour those bits that I do like, even though I'm mostly overwhelmed by what I don't like at the moment.
This captures how I am feeling pretty well. I've been critical of some of this season's tone and arcs (probably the Keeley stealth pilot the most but also the psychic), but I'm still enjoying a lot of moments, scenes, dialogue, emotions, etc. And I've enjoyed the more recent episodes more than than others (but still tinged by the baggage of some things set up earlier in the season). I feel like the writers will bring it in for a decent landing at least if not a perfect one. I'd normally expect a fair amount of flash-forward content in the finale, but with potential spin-off properties looming that seems more complicated. (I think at the very least we'll see Trent's book and would not be surprised if the show wraps with Trent reading from the book over a montage of scenes showing character fates/developments).
If the ending is good, then I think revisiting the series will be a better experience. There will be less anxious real-time thoughts around "they better/better not be setting up THING" and more "well I can see what they were going for but it was a bit off" or "I guess that plot point ended up not really mattering" etc.
In that way, it also reminds me of the original Star Wars trilogy (on a smaller scale). The first movie hit and exploded, the sequel delivered, and Return of the Jedi...completed the trilogy. It wasn't in the same league as the first two movies. But people of a certain age still look back at "the original trilogy" with overall fond memories and have favorite bits from all the movies. And given that Ted Lasso is so valuable to Apple TV we might be in for ten or fifteen years of a Ted Lasso Expanded Universe. Some of which would probably be not so great! But there's always a chance for someone to tell another compelling story.
posted by mikepop at 6:37 AM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
This captures how I am feeling pretty well. I've been critical of some of this season's tone and arcs (probably the Keeley stealth pilot the most but also the psychic), but I'm still enjoying a lot of moments, scenes, dialogue, emotions, etc. And I've enjoyed the more recent episodes more than than others (but still tinged by the baggage of some things set up earlier in the season). I feel like the writers will bring it in for a decent landing at least if not a perfect one. I'd normally expect a fair amount of flash-forward content in the finale, but with potential spin-off properties looming that seems more complicated. (I think at the very least we'll see Trent's book and would not be surprised if the show wraps with Trent reading from the book over a montage of scenes showing character fates/developments).
If the ending is good, then I think revisiting the series will be a better experience. There will be less anxious real-time thoughts around "they better/better not be setting up THING" and more "well I can see what they were going for but it was a bit off" or "I guess that plot point ended up not really mattering" etc.
In that way, it also reminds me of the original Star Wars trilogy (on a smaller scale). The first movie hit and exploded, the sequel delivered, and Return of the Jedi...completed the trilogy. It wasn't in the same league as the first two movies. But people of a certain age still look back at "the original trilogy" with overall fond memories and have favorite bits from all the movies. And given that Ted Lasso is so valuable to Apple TV we might be in for ten or fifteen years of a Ted Lasso Expanded Universe. Some of which would probably be not so great! But there's always a chance for someone to tell another compelling story.
posted by mikepop at 6:37 AM on May 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
Okay, it had not occurred to me, but I love the idea of him having Francis throw the tantrum for him.
posted by rmd1023 at 7:25 AM on May 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by rmd1023 at 7:25 AM on May 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
Tired: Ted Lasso: A show nominally about football, but not really at all.
Wired: Nate's Dad: A show about wise, innocent, sensitive and selfish violin prodigy cruelly forced to work in the world of professional football. (with Spiegel im Spiegel as a theme tune)
posted by rongorongo at 5:09 AM on May 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
Wired: Nate's Dad: A show about wise, innocent, sensitive and selfish violin prodigy cruelly forced to work in the world of professional football. (with Spiegel im Spiegel as a theme tune)
posted by rongorongo at 5:09 AM on May 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
About Jade's joke about lightbulbs: my first thought was "They're telling a Polish joke?!?" but the word wasn't "Polish," because I remember the 1970s. Nobody else had that reaction, huh. Good.
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:25 PM on May 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:25 PM on May 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
Between the chips on the plane and the plants Nate knocked over coming home through the window, I paused this at some point to shout, "Does this episode think that stuff on the floor is just magically handled?!" at which point my wife gushed about my own personal growth.
But anyway.
Rebecca's power-pose before the Akufo meeting was a great call-back, made more powerful by seeing Baby Rebecca in the mirror. I took that and the later bit with the text from Keeley and Rebecca's speech killing the Super League, to be that Rebecca still sees herself as a little kid playing in a grown-up's world sometimes. But there's power in remembering that part of yourself and recognizing that everyone has that part of themselves. Speak to the little boys that these old men still, in some way, are. Break through to them that way, and then appeal to them that way. Rebecca realizing that she belongs there as much as anyone. And then, of course, Akufo, the biggest manbaby of them all, throws a tantrum.
It's interesting that the Jack = Rupert thing is true from both Rebecca's experience with Rupert and from Nate's, and it's so awful for Keeley that she's getting both of those at once. Yay Barbara for quitting Jack's nonsense and being there for Keeley. Glad they got the receipt for that snowglobe.
I read Roy/Keeley as a tentative "back together." The dynamic is just very different from Keeley and Season 1 Jamie. But hey, Season 3 Jamie takes his first cap for England wearing Sam's number, which was amazing! Akufo tormenting Sam was funny in that Akufo can't help himself from going over the top, and the more over the top he goes, the less actually hurtful his actions are (see the laughter after his tantrum in the super-league meeting.) Here, telling Sam that he bribed the Nigerian government to keep Sam off the team just puts a (hefty) pricetag on how much that snubbing took, rather than Sam taking it as a symbol of his value as a player, which he had been doing. (Also, I feel like opening up another West African restaurant in the same neighborhood would only bring more attention/business to Ola's, but that's just me.)
Which brings us to Nate. It think it's very true to his story (and to this show) that Nate's "consequences" finally arrive as the result of him doing the right thing, since he was in a situation seemingly designed to reward being his worst self. This is part of why the Nate arc this season has been so successful for me (and probably part of why it's been so unsuccessful for others.) Nate's actions in Season 2 made the viewer want comeuppance for him, and understandably so. But that's just not the place where this show lives. In the world of this show, Edwin Akufo will probably remain a billionaire enabled to throw his tantrums whenever he doesn't get his way, Rupert will probably remain a womanizing sociopath as long as Ms. Bread doesn't keep broadcasting stuff about his fecalist, etc. The "bad guys" often win here and even when they don't, they don't suffer much for losing.
Nate had entered that world, where there are no consequences for those willing to sell their souls. And his victory so far is in deciding his soul was worth more to him than that. I don't know the circumstances surrounding his departure from West Ham (I ran into the kitchen as he and Jade were talking and my wife just shouted "Nate quit!" from the couch, so I really don't know) but I get the feeling that it was fallout from Nate skipping out on the Boy's Night, between Nate's wariness at what trying to earn Rupert's approval would entail, and Rupert's wariness at Nate's reluctance. It reminds me of Jerry Maguire (obviously referenced earlier in the season) and its arc of "you've made a big stand, now let's see you live up to it."
Lloyd's speech to Nate is perhaps a bit unrealistic, yes. But I give it a pass because:
1.) It makes other interactions with him, particularly the thing with Nate being in the newspaper the first time, make a lot of sense. If Lloyd has always expected his son to be successful, and has no idea how to actually parent for that, I can see him being ready with a quip for when that eventuality comes. It was just utterly off the mark.
2.) It's not crazy that, when your son crawls home through the window in the middle of the night avoiding a swarm of reporters trying to ask about his sudden downfall, and then hides in his childhood bedroom in a depressive funk for days on end, one might do a bit of reflecting over one's parenting choices. Also, Nate comes back at him with "you literally said that!" or whatever, and I got the feeling that doing so went against their well-established dynamic as well. That's a good moment for Lloyd to cut through the normal bullshit and say what he means.
3.) Nate being a "genius" is, like, super well-established by this point. Everyone who dismisses him or manipulates him uses his insecurity about just being a jumped-up kitman to do so, but he has actual skills above the other premier league coaches that did, in fact, get him where he is. It mattered to me that Lloyd said as much here.
But, of course, the Big Damn Deal out of all of this was the apology to Will, which was perfect (I clapped and cheered and teared up.) I didn't catch the lavender being a part of it (that's awesome) but I fucking loved that he signed it "Wonder Kid." (After we saw that he at some point trained Siri to call him "Wunderkind.") Just from a narrative standpoint, it's the perfect place for him to start with making amends to the team, as Will caught the most abuse from him, but is also the most minor character from our point of view (and the one most likely to be receptive to an apology from Nate, aside from possibly Ted of course.)
Looking back, this season just feels to me like it's done an incredible job with this arc, showing his growth as being imperfect and gradual but also a result of internal rather than external forces, finally getting him to this point where he can say "yes, I've got to go make things right, even if it's too late."
posted by Navelgazer at 11:07 AM on May 26, 2023 [5 favorites]
But anyway.
Rebecca's power-pose before the Akufo meeting was a great call-back, made more powerful by seeing Baby Rebecca in the mirror. I took that and the later bit with the text from Keeley and Rebecca's speech killing the Super League, to be that Rebecca still sees herself as a little kid playing in a grown-up's world sometimes. But there's power in remembering that part of yourself and recognizing that everyone has that part of themselves. Speak to the little boys that these old men still, in some way, are. Break through to them that way, and then appeal to them that way. Rebecca realizing that she belongs there as much as anyone. And then, of course, Akufo, the biggest manbaby of them all, throws a tantrum.
It's interesting that the Jack = Rupert thing is true from both Rebecca's experience with Rupert and from Nate's, and it's so awful for Keeley that she's getting both of those at once. Yay Barbara for quitting Jack's nonsense and being there for Keeley. Glad they got the receipt for that snowglobe.
I read Roy/Keeley as a tentative "back together." The dynamic is just very different from Keeley and Season 1 Jamie. But hey, Season 3 Jamie takes his first cap for England wearing Sam's number, which was amazing! Akufo tormenting Sam was funny in that Akufo can't help himself from going over the top, and the more over the top he goes, the less actually hurtful his actions are (see the laughter after his tantrum in the super-league meeting.) Here, telling Sam that he bribed the Nigerian government to keep Sam off the team just puts a (hefty) pricetag on how much that snubbing took, rather than Sam taking it as a symbol of his value as a player, which he had been doing. (Also, I feel like opening up another West African restaurant in the same neighborhood would only bring more attention/business to Ola's, but that's just me.)
Which brings us to Nate. It think it's very true to his story (and to this show) that Nate's "consequences" finally arrive as the result of him doing the right thing, since he was in a situation seemingly designed to reward being his worst self. This is part of why the Nate arc this season has been so successful for me (and probably part of why it's been so unsuccessful for others.) Nate's actions in Season 2 made the viewer want comeuppance for him, and understandably so. But that's just not the place where this show lives. In the world of this show, Edwin Akufo will probably remain a billionaire enabled to throw his tantrums whenever he doesn't get his way, Rupert will probably remain a womanizing sociopath as long as Ms. Bread doesn't keep broadcasting stuff about his fecalist, etc. The "bad guys" often win here and even when they don't, they don't suffer much for losing.
Nate had entered that world, where there are no consequences for those willing to sell their souls. And his victory so far is in deciding his soul was worth more to him than that. I don't know the circumstances surrounding his departure from West Ham (I ran into the kitchen as he and Jade were talking and my wife just shouted "Nate quit!" from the couch, so I really don't know) but I get the feeling that it was fallout from Nate skipping out on the Boy's Night, between Nate's wariness at what trying to earn Rupert's approval would entail, and Rupert's wariness at Nate's reluctance. It reminds me of Jerry Maguire (obviously referenced earlier in the season) and its arc of "you've made a big stand, now let's see you live up to it."
Lloyd's speech to Nate is perhaps a bit unrealistic, yes. But I give it a pass because:
1.) It makes other interactions with him, particularly the thing with Nate being in the newspaper the first time, make a lot of sense. If Lloyd has always expected his son to be successful, and has no idea how to actually parent for that, I can see him being ready with a quip for when that eventuality comes. It was just utterly off the mark.
2.) It's not crazy that, when your son crawls home through the window in the middle of the night avoiding a swarm of reporters trying to ask about his sudden downfall, and then hides in his childhood bedroom in a depressive funk for days on end, one might do a bit of reflecting over one's parenting choices. Also, Nate comes back at him with "you literally said that!" or whatever, and I got the feeling that doing so went against their well-established dynamic as well. That's a good moment for Lloyd to cut through the normal bullshit and say what he means.
3.) Nate being a "genius" is, like, super well-established by this point. Everyone who dismisses him or manipulates him uses his insecurity about just being a jumped-up kitman to do so, but he has actual skills above the other premier league coaches that did, in fact, get him where he is. It mattered to me that Lloyd said as much here.
But, of course, the Big Damn Deal out of all of this was the apology to Will, which was perfect (I clapped and cheered and teared up.) I didn't catch the lavender being a part of it (that's awesome) but I fucking loved that he signed it "Wonder Kid." (After we saw that he at some point trained Siri to call him "Wunderkind.") Just from a narrative standpoint, it's the perfect place for him to start with making amends to the team, as Will caught the most abuse from him, but is also the most minor character from our point of view (and the one most likely to be receptive to an apology from Nate, aside from possibly Ted of course.)
Looking back, this season just feels to me like it's done an incredible job with this arc, showing his growth as being imperfect and gradual but also a result of internal rather than external forces, finally getting him to this point where he can say "yes, I've got to go make things right, even if it's too late."
posted by Navelgazer at 11:07 AM on May 26, 2023 [5 favorites]
I love the Jade character. She is perfect. She is totally deadpan, absolutely used to bullshit male garbage from her job, is simply Not Having It when people try to shine her on, and sees, the genuineness in Nate that wars with the patterns and scripts of male dominance he continuously fails to execute properly. She wondered if there was a good person inside and managed to find the real Nate by only responding to him when he is real and vulnerable. I believe this is extremely deft writing and, especially, acting.
Most unrealistic part of the episode is the notion a woman at a table of old rich men would not be interrupted five seconds into a passionate speech.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:23 AM on May 28, 2023 [9 favorites]
Most unrealistic part of the episode is the notion a woman at a table of old rich men would not be interrupted five seconds into a passionate speech.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:23 AM on May 28, 2023 [9 favorites]
> About Jade's joke about lightbulbs: my first thought was "They're telling a Polish joke?!?" but the word wasn't "Polish," because I remember the 1970s. Nobody else had that reaction, huh. Good.
I *absolutely* clocked that.
From a mention in the interview ellieBOA posted, Phil Dunston covering Maroon 5.
posted by Pronoiac at 12:38 PM on June 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
I *absolutely* clocked that.
From a mention in the interview ellieBOA posted, Phil Dunston covering Maroon 5.
posted by Pronoiac at 12:38 PM on June 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
I want to believe that the costume department had an alternate tie-dye that could conceivably have been made by a child.
I found Nate's interaction with his father profoundly unsatisfying because it is so out of character with everything we've seen from him, as others have noted above. What's so frustrating is that there COULD have been an evolution over the season. It wouldn't even have been that hard. They just had to fucking write it, which is kind of emblematic of Nate's whole plotline
I don't know how they can resolve Sam's plotline unless Okufo gets arrested or something. Like, how do you get a happy ending when a crazy person with basically-unlimited resources hs vowed to destroy you?
posted by DebetEsse at 6:59 PM on October 31, 2023 [2 favorites]
I found Nate's interaction with his father profoundly unsatisfying because it is so out of character with everything we've seen from him, as others have noted above. What's so frustrating is that there COULD have been an evolution over the season. It wouldn't even have been that hard. They just had to fucking write it, which is kind of emblematic of Nate's whole plotline
I don't know how they can resolve Sam's plotline unless Okufo gets arrested or something. Like, how do you get a happy ending when a crazy person with basically-unlimited resources hs vowed to destroy you?
posted by DebetEsse at 6:59 PM on October 31, 2023 [2 favorites]
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Beard and Jane are going to throw axes as pictures of Nate the "Wonder Turd." "How many axes have you got now?" "Seventeen. But they're not all for throwing."
Jamie got Roy a thoughtful gift! That apparently spells ROY KUNT. And Phoebe charging him for a dirty thought. And Jamie quietly paying up.
I'm seriously wondering what "performance" Phoebe did that we didn't see.
"Your sister is fit." "I will cut your eyes out."
Someone on Reddit suggested "Rani Dojas," which sounds about right. Someone also pointed out that Roy's sister is the ER doc that treated Dr. Sharon. And that the next shirt Roy wears is the "BIV" (but no G). And that Nate apologized to Will with lavender, which had pissed him off earlier. And Ryan Stiles and Colin Mochrie were the Canadian announcers.
Kakes and Bread?! What happened to the old secretary? "Skewed....dramatic."
"Just because we own these teams doesn't mean they belong to us."
Nate's hair now looks like his dad's.
THE LOOKS ON KEELEY AND REBECCA'S FACES WHEN ROY WALKS IN.
THE FEAR IN VAN DAMME'S FACE when Dani came up all friendly-like.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:04 PM on May 16, 2023 [8 favorites]