Foundation: Creation Myths Books Included
September 16, 2023 6:38 PM - Season 2, Episode 10 - Subscribe
Season finale. Gaal, Salvor, and Hari chart a new path forward on Ignis. Demerzel heads to Trantor, taking actions that will change Empire forever.
At the very least they did a good job of tying up all the plot threads. I last read the books 50 years ago and have no real memory of them (beyond the concepts of pyschohistory and the really weird names), but I've really enjoyed the story being told in this series.
I'm glad they managed to save Constant. She was my favorite character this season.
posted by lhauser at 7:47 PM on September 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
I'm glad they managed to save Constant. She was my favorite character this season.
posted by lhauser at 7:47 PM on September 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
The sheer glee on Lee Pace's Day's face when he was in the fight with the Empire Ship's captain was amazing.
posted by oldnumberseven at 7:58 PM on September 16, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by oldnumberseven at 7:58 PM on September 16, 2023 [7 favorites]
One thing I found very very interesting in this week’s episode of the podcast was the mention of how when they were shopping the show around, all the studios wanted to do the Mule in season one, but they wanted to wait until the third season to do it right, and Apple was the only studio willing to pay the long game on that front.
This was a heck of a season finale! Now I’m all annoyed that it’s going to be even longer until the next season, with the strike still going
posted by DoctorFedora at 8:06 PM on September 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
This was a heck of a season finale! Now I’m all annoyed that it’s going to be even longer until the next season, with the strike still going
posted by DoctorFedora at 8:06 PM on September 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
I think just the people on Terminus, including those recently crash-landed there.
They all went into the... secret giant spaceship, as is standard procedure.
posted by Acari at 8:12 PM on September 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
They all went into the... secret giant spaceship, as is standard procedure.
posted by Acari at 8:12 PM on September 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
Hmm. I didn't think this was a bad episode, but I didn't really get caught up in this one the way I did in the others. For me, it was a lot of surveying from afar and saying "yeah I can see why they did this in that way." There were some cheats -- Bel Riose spaces Day! Hober has a secret plan with the spacers! the people of Terminus survive! -- but they got away with the Foundation's improbable win because they killed a bunch of the best characters along the way. So...it doesn't exactly feel bloodless. Bel Riose and Hober Mallow found a sort of peace, and it was all very touching, but I can't believe Salvor never gets back to Terminus! On the other hand, the "cheat" that allowed Bel Riose to space Day was so satisfying I don't mind the gimmick. (I can't remember the last time I had such a satisfying "character you love to hate" ending. Maybe Dr Chilton on Hannibal.)
Interesting to see Demerzel outmaneuvered at the end, and the extent to which the machinery of Empire bends to her will above the Cleonic line. I'm curious to see if the rogue Cloud Dominion/Dawn spawn turns out to be a plot element or if it peters out into yet another thing the clones do that don't have any larger effect on history.
posted by grandiloquiet at 9:16 PM on September 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
Interesting to see Demerzel outmaneuvered at the end, and the extent to which the machinery of Empire bends to her will above the Cleonic line. I'm curious to see if the rogue Cloud Dominion/Dawn spawn turns out to be a plot element or if it peters out into yet another thing the clones do that don't have any larger effect on history.
posted by grandiloquiet at 9:16 PM on September 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
Was the implication inside the Foundation Ship that Hari managed to save everybody including the Empire Navy, or was the population of Terminus just much higher than had been really hinted at?
That was the general’s husband, who was in the ground on Terminus, so he got swept up in whatever reverse-Santa Claus system they had to stuff everyone in the Vault.
The show didn’t do a great job of conveying the scale of Terminus, like most sci-fi shows. Locations always seems like a planet with one small, scrappy colonist outpost.
The last three episodes of this season were amazing, and I can’t wait to see where it goes from here. Like lhauser, I read the books long ago (and probably not all of them) so it feels like a new story with some vague echoes of favorable memories.
posted by jimw at 9:25 PM on September 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
That was the general’s husband, who was in the ground on Terminus, so he got swept up in whatever reverse-Santa Claus system they had to stuff everyone in the Vault.
The show didn’t do a great job of conveying the scale of Terminus, like most sci-fi shows. Locations always seems like a planet with one small, scrappy colonist outpost.
The last three episodes of this season were amazing, and I can’t wait to see where it goes from here. Like lhauser, I read the books long ago (and probably not all of them) so it feels like a new story with some vague echoes of favorable memories.
posted by jimw at 9:25 PM on September 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
Yeah - I was adding the books included tag this season, but while the show is sort of hitting the same kind of major plot points, they're different enough that I'm not sure it's necessarily valuable? But if this were a show only thread, comparisons to the book would be out of place. But it's definitely not a matter of the show hewing closely to the 80 year old stories, in any event.
Like I remembered that Terminus "survived" an attack, I couldn't remember how. "Ha hah, that wasn't actually Terminus, Empire!" or what, right?
The interesting thing is that, y'know, I don't feel at _all_ annoyed that they're using the books as reference without requiring them to be a literal bible. The stories are old, they're well told for their time, but they're also 80 years out of date in many others. They're maybe playing a little bit faster and looser with psychohistory than I'd like, but the general theme of a bunch of scientists trying to preserve society on the fringes while more powerful enemies rise up and threaten them is always a good one.
Here's hoping it gets renewed, although with the current strikes I can't imagine we'll see anything until Lee Pace is halfway to being able to play Dusk.
posted by Kyol at 8:41 AM on September 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
Like I remembered that Terminus "survived" an attack, I couldn't remember how. "Ha hah, that wasn't actually Terminus, Empire!" or what, right?
The interesting thing is that, y'know, I don't feel at _all_ annoyed that they're using the books as reference without requiring them to be a literal bible. The stories are old, they're well told for their time, but they're also 80 years out of date in many others. They're maybe playing a little bit faster and looser with psychohistory than I'd like, but the general theme of a bunch of scientists trying to preserve society on the fringes while more powerful enemies rise up and threaten them is always a good one.
Here's hoping it gets renewed, although with the current strikes I can't imagine we'll see anything until Lee Pace is halfway to being able to play Dusk.
posted by Kyol at 8:41 AM on September 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
It feels to me that they really want us to think Tellem becomes the Mule (or at least she manages to survive, because there were a lot of telling looks by the young girl with the strikingly similar neck tattoo). On the one hand, that helps explain his backstory... and having that makes him more real and terrifying (something I think he lacked in previous episodes). On the other hand, I was really hoping the Mule would end up being a descendent of one of the Cleon clones. Could still happen.
posted by johnxlibris at 9:20 AM on September 17, 2023
posted by johnxlibris at 9:20 AM on September 17, 2023
One thing really took me out of the story here: the way the Imperial crews reacted to their ships being destroyed. The flagship had a *lot* of warning before it was destroyed - ten minutes? Fifteen? - and yet we never saw anyone trying to work the problem. Someone said the life-boats had been locked out, and then everyone (including the commanding officer) just gave up? Doesn’t ring true to me. This is a spaceship; does no one have pressure suits? And this is a *warship* - don’t they have explosives? Or even kit specifically meant for boarding enemy vessels? Why don’t we see anyone at least *trying* to punch holes in the hull, and let lifeboats loose that way? The crew seems far too easily convinced that they’re doomed.
posted by Mr. Excellent at 11:38 AM on September 17, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by Mr. Excellent at 11:38 AM on September 17, 2023 [7 favorites]
Same as others, I read all of the foundation/robot books while I was in high school but that was 30 years ago….i remember loving them…so much new stuff. I reread the trilogy a few months before the tv show came out and…..while the ideas are great the writing isn’t. So, happy that the show is changing lots… my favorite part of the shows are the intrigue of empire and I don’t remember much of that being in the books.
posted by Spumante at 11:41 AM on September 17, 2023
posted by Spumante at 11:41 AM on September 17, 2023
> The crew seems far too easily convinced that they’re doomed.
I think the showrunners want to proceed at their chosen pace and they just wanted to wrap up this chapter. I mean, why was the entire fleet there? Are there no threats or opportunists in the rest of the Empire? Imagine the US wanted to wage war on a small island in the Pacific. Would they gather all their carriers and navy vessels to surround that one island and give China/Russia free reign everywhere else. The rest of the fleet didn't even engage in the battle against the Foundation's one battleship. It's so silly.
posted by daksya at 12:43 PM on September 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
I think the showrunners want to proceed at their chosen pace and they just wanted to wrap up this chapter. I mean, why was the entire fleet there? Are there no threats or opportunists in the rest of the Empire? Imagine the US wanted to wage war on a small island in the Pacific. Would they gather all their carriers and navy vessels to surround that one island and give China/Russia free reign everywhere else. The rest of the fleet didn't even engage in the battle against the Foundation's one battleship. It's so silly.
posted by daksya at 12:43 PM on September 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
I have to say I was disappointed with this final episode, after the last few hit it out of the park.
It just seemed to be a slow, putting-all-the-pieces-back-in-the-box exercise; plus there were lots of little bits that didn't make a lot of sense that kept pulling me out of the show.
- All the fleet dying didn't seem necessary, and was basically unshown.
- Demerzel is presented as an immortal background string-puller. Ok. But then she's visible all the time, giving orders to many members of the fleet, secret police and bureaucracy. And nobody wonders or thinks it's a problem? Yes, those somewhat in the know will be terrified of her, but the general public?
- The Vault just magically saves everyone on Terminus. Just going too far there.
- Maybe if we'd had some sort of throw-away line or some more detailed effort at world-building Terminus there'd be some more meaning.
Maybe that's still the problem with the show. The psycho-history needs to show us the mood/economy of billions of people driving the history forwards to the inevitable of Seldon's predictions of the collapse of the Empire into barbarism, so that it can then show the actions of individuals that drive forward the Seldon Plan to shorten the darkness.
Still, Dusk, Day, Dawn and Sareth all had good endings.
posted by jjderooy at 4:11 PM on September 17, 2023
It just seemed to be a slow, putting-all-the-pieces-back-in-the-box exercise; plus there were lots of little bits that didn't make a lot of sense that kept pulling me out of the show.
- All the fleet dying didn't seem necessary, and was basically unshown.
- Demerzel is presented as an immortal background string-puller. Ok. But then she's visible all the time, giving orders to many members of the fleet, secret police and bureaucracy. And nobody wonders or thinks it's a problem? Yes, those somewhat in the know will be terrified of her, but the general public?
- The Vault just magically saves everyone on Terminus. Just going too far there.
- Maybe if we'd had some sort of throw-away line or some more detailed effort at world-building Terminus there'd be some more meaning.
Maybe that's still the problem with the show. The psycho-history needs to show us the mood/economy of billions of people driving the history forwards to the inevitable of Seldon's predictions of the collapse of the Empire into barbarism, so that it can then show the actions of individuals that drive forward the Seldon Plan to shorten the darkness.
Still, Dusk, Day, Dawn and Sareth all had good endings.
posted by jjderooy at 4:11 PM on September 17, 2023
plus there were lots of little bits that didn't make a lot of sense that kept pulling me out of the show.
- All the fleet dying didn't seem necessary, and was basically unshown.
The basic point here was that Empire's two strengths are its military and perceived ruthlessness. Day choosing to peacefully reconcile is rare and risks encouraging rebellion from the periphery, and in the end, either out of anger or sound logic he cannot actually chose this path. And that predictable irrationality is a response Hari provoked by courting the Spacers, insulting Empire in person on Trantor, etc.
By the logic of war, bringing an overwhelming force is how armies win battles while minimizing losses. If Foundation were a near peer adversary, this is perhaps the correct move. But Hari knows they are not, and instead has resorted to other tactics: sabotage and fomenting insurrection. The destruction of the entire fleet is strategically sound, as it prevents counterattacks, and symbolic: Empire is fully defeated.
But sure, it would have been interesting to see a mention of the Josephus problem in the show. Technically I believe one ship survived anyways, as Demerzel jumped back to Trantor with the Prime Radiant to wipe Dusk and reboot Empire. They were able to rebuild Trantor once, unclear if it happens again or if the place gets sacked first. After that defeat they will have a hard time subjugating the periphery or even defending themselves from other armies, and that fearsome reputation will crumble into sand.
The Vault just magically saves everyone on Terminus. Just going too far there.
Agreed. It's also confusing as there seem to be more people aboard the vault than were ever shown or even implied on Terminus.
I'm curious to see if the rogue Cloud Dominion/Dawn spawn turns out to be a plot element or if it peters out into yet another thing the clones do that don't have any larger effect on history.
Well, it could be played out as a war of succession that ends up splitting the empire apart.
posted by pwnguin at 4:53 PM on September 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
- All the fleet dying didn't seem necessary, and was basically unshown.
The basic point here was that Empire's two strengths are its military and perceived ruthlessness. Day choosing to peacefully reconcile is rare and risks encouraging rebellion from the periphery, and in the end, either out of anger or sound logic he cannot actually chose this path. And that predictable irrationality is a response Hari provoked by courting the Spacers, insulting Empire in person on Trantor, etc.
By the logic of war, bringing an overwhelming force is how armies win battles while minimizing losses. If Foundation were a near peer adversary, this is perhaps the correct move. But Hari knows they are not, and instead has resorted to other tactics: sabotage and fomenting insurrection. The destruction of the entire fleet is strategically sound, as it prevents counterattacks, and symbolic: Empire is fully defeated.
But sure, it would have been interesting to see a mention of the Josephus problem in the show. Technically I believe one ship survived anyways, as Demerzel jumped back to Trantor with the Prime Radiant to wipe Dusk and reboot Empire. They were able to rebuild Trantor once, unclear if it happens again or if the place gets sacked first. After that defeat they will have a hard time subjugating the periphery or even defending themselves from other armies, and that fearsome reputation will crumble into sand.
The Vault just magically saves everyone on Terminus. Just going too far there.
Agreed. It's also confusing as there seem to be more people aboard the vault than were ever shown or even implied on Terminus.
I'm curious to see if the rogue Cloud Dominion/Dawn spawn turns out to be a plot element or if it peters out into yet another thing the clones do that don't have any larger effect on history.
Well, it could be played out as a war of succession that ends up splitting the empire apart.
posted by pwnguin at 4:53 PM on September 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm curious to see if the rogue Cloud Dominion/Dawn spawn turns out to be a plot element
The ending seems to imply that there will be about a 150 year jump between seasons, so if it is a plot element, the descendants are the ones active in the next season.
It is really unclear how Demerzel is not out as an android, but has been publicly visible for centuries and people aren’t wondering what’s up.
posted by snofoam at 5:42 PM on September 17, 2023
The ending seems to imply that there will be about a 150 year jump between seasons, so if it is a plot element, the descendants are the ones active in the next season.
It is really unclear how Demerzel is not out as an android, but has been publicly visible for centuries and people aren’t wondering what’s up.
posted by snofoam at 5:42 PM on September 17, 2023
It is really unclear how Demerzel is not out as an android, but has been publicly visible for centuries and people aren’t wondering what’s up.
They kind of hinted at that with someone from the Cloud Dominion asking her and she sort of suggested while not actually saying that she had a parallel sort of clone rebirth system as the Cleons.
But yeah, there were bits at the very end where Demerzel is managing the secret police and such, and how Day's guards were guarding him on the ship that felt very ... off. And whatever happened to Day's aura?
And yeah, count me in the "you have a gigantic battleship and only _one_ window cleaning vessel, huh? And what did everyone else on the bridge do, anyway? fuck off to their rooms for a quick pre-death cry?" crowd, too. I mean sure, death of thousands to save the lives of billions is a nice _abstract_ trade off, but when it comes right down to it, I'm pretty sure more people would've been clawing at the walls, military training or not.
posted by Kyol at 8:13 PM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
They kind of hinted at that with someone from the Cloud Dominion asking her and she sort of suggested while not actually saying that she had a parallel sort of clone rebirth system as the Cleons.
But yeah, there were bits at the very end where Demerzel is managing the secret police and such, and how Day's guards were guarding him on the ship that felt very ... off. And whatever happened to Day's aura?
And yeah, count me in the "you have a gigantic battleship and only _one_ window cleaning vessel, huh? And what did everyone else on the bridge do, anyway? fuck off to their rooms for a quick pre-death cry?" crowd, too. I mean sure, death of thousands to save the lives of billions is a nice _abstract_ trade off, but when it comes right down to it, I'm pretty sure more people would've been clawing at the walls, military training or not.
posted by Kyol at 8:13 PM on September 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
And whatever happened to Day's aura?
He'd cast it aside down on the planet when he approached the Vault and dared Hari to strike him down.
posted by Pryde at 8:55 PM on September 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
He'd cast it aside down on the planet when he approached the Vault and dared Hari to strike him down.
posted by Pryde at 8:55 PM on September 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
Demerzel jumped back to Trantor with the Prime Radiant to wipe Dusk and reboot Empire.?
Does anyone remember how she got a hold of the Prime Radiant? I thought it was inside the vault with Hari, and also far far away with Gaal?
posted by some loser at 4:46 AM on September 18, 2023
Does anyone remember how she got a hold of the Prime Radiant? I thought it was inside the vault with Hari, and also far far away with Gaal?
posted by some loser at 4:46 AM on September 18, 2023
Hari gave it to her when they were in the vault.
posted by snofoam at 5:04 AM on September 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by snofoam at 5:04 AM on September 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm a bit confused about where things are left with Hari/Gaal/the Mentalics.
Hari's original plan (as I understood it) was that Gaal would go into cryo-sleep for 150 years, waking up once per year to get an update on things. Meanwhile, Hari says he will train the Mentalics, teach them psycho-history etc. Basically prepare them for the next crisis, build them into some kind of force. Presumably Hari would live most of those 150 years (I assume natural lifespan has been extended in the future?) but be gone when Gaal is woken up after 150 years and she would be on her own.
Instead Gaal convinces Hari to go into cryo-sleep with her. So the Mentalics will just be left on their own for 150 years and hopefully watch over the sleep capsules and nothing bad will happen? And when they both wake up they won't have any further training than they do now? This seems like a dramatic departure from the original plan. Will they both still wake up once in a while?
posted by mikepop at 6:42 AM on September 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Hari's original plan (as I understood it) was that Gaal would go into cryo-sleep for 150 years, waking up once per year to get an update on things. Meanwhile, Hari says he will train the Mentalics, teach them psycho-history etc. Basically prepare them for the next crisis, build them into some kind of force. Presumably Hari would live most of those 150 years (I assume natural lifespan has been extended in the future?) but be gone when Gaal is woken up after 150 years and she would be on her own.
Instead Gaal convinces Hari to go into cryo-sleep with her. So the Mentalics will just be left on their own for 150 years and hopefully watch over the sleep capsules and nothing bad will happen? And when they both wake up they won't have any further training than they do now? This seems like a dramatic departure from the original plan. Will they both still wake up once in a while?
posted by mikepop at 6:42 AM on September 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
It was quick, but I think she got him to agree to a tradeoff - instead of putting Gaal on ice immediately while Hari lived out his years training the mentallics about psychohistory and how to be the second foundation, they spent a few years with the both of them training foundation two in the ways of psychohistory before they both went on ice.
Now, moving the cryobeds from the Beggar to the WOULD SOMEONE CLEAR THESE DAMN VINES courtyard seemed like.. Uh. So what, you're gonna give them 150 years of awareness of your "presence"? Man, that's creepy. Creepier than the suspiciously be-tattooed young woman who the camera was lingering on at the end. I'm sure it's nothing....
posted by Kyol at 7:28 AM on September 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Now, moving the cryobeds from the Beggar to the WOULD SOMEONE CLEAR THESE DAMN VINES courtyard seemed like.. Uh. So what, you're gonna give them 150 years of awareness of your "presence"? Man, that's creepy. Creepier than the suspiciously be-tattooed young woman who the camera was lingering on at the end. I'm sure it's nothing....
posted by Kyol at 7:28 AM on September 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
(that said, uh... And I'm pretty sure this is where my book knowledge runs out, but the first foundation had the benefit of collecting all of humanity's knowledge and scuttling off with it to Terminus so they could be a galaxial Svalbard of of knowledge. Foundation Two ... uh. Knows about psychohistory? How's that help shorten the interregnum?)
posted by Kyol at 7:31 AM on September 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Kyol at 7:31 AM on September 18, 2023 [1 favorite]
Foundation Two ... uh. Knows about psychohistory? How's that help shorten the interregnum?
What I recall from the books is the the first Foundation was the repository of knowledge and Hari (as recordings) would pop up to tell them about crisis points at the appropriate time. They essentially had a static model of psychohistory from the time Hari kicked off. The Second Foundation had psychohistorians actively tweaking the model, with more of a mandate to intervene to get it back on track.
The show has changed so much, but still seems to be relatively close to many of the ideas from the books.
posted by jimw at 10:16 PM on September 20, 2023
What I recall from the books is the the first Foundation was the repository of knowledge and Hari (as recordings) would pop up to tell them about crisis points at the appropriate time. They essentially had a static model of psychohistory from the time Hari kicked off. The Second Foundation had psychohistorians actively tweaking the model, with more of a mandate to intervene to get it back on track.
The show has changed so much, but still seems to be relatively close to many of the ideas from the books.
posted by jimw at 10:16 PM on September 20, 2023
one might describe the TV show's retelling of the broader ideas, adjusted for changes in the times, as… the second Foundation
posted by DoctorFedora at 10:29 PM on September 20, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 10:29 PM on September 20, 2023 [7 favorites]
When I watch this I keep thinking, this is better than it has any right to be! Plot nonsense aside (agreed with many on the inexplicable Vault deus ex machina), the dialogue is smart, the costumes and technology designs are fascinating, and the acting is so good. Especially:
-Day’s sinking into complete nihilistic aggression after his mother lover robot abandons him
- Bel Rios, start to finish, totally! captivating!
- Demerzel’s deeply conflicted distrust of her own thought process & “feelings”
- The difference between Hari the AI hologram, more circumscribed in the vault, better informed but driven to madness in the prime radiant, and the flesh & blood reincarnated Hari, who is so warm and kindly in this episode
I mean, I love this show so much I made a bunch of phone wallpapers of Day’s outfits.
With that said, I’m devastated about Salvor. I know we have to have these time jumps and lose some folks, but how could they!!!
posted by Isingthebodyelectric at 10:13 AM on September 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
-Day’s sinking into complete nihilistic aggression after his mother lover robot abandons him
- Bel Rios, start to finish, totally! captivating!
- Demerzel’s deeply conflicted distrust of her own thought process & “feelings”
- The difference between Hari the AI hologram, more circumscribed in the vault, better informed but driven to madness in the prime radiant, and the flesh & blood reincarnated Hari, who is so warm and kindly in this episode
I mean, I love this show so much I made a bunch of phone wallpapers of Day’s outfits.
With that said, I’m devastated about Salvor. I know we have to have these time jumps and lose some folks, but how could they!!!
posted by Isingthebodyelectric at 10:13 AM on September 21, 2023 [4 favorites]
yeah Salvor's death is as devastating as it is inevitable, and I loved finding out that the writers were super secretive about it until the last minute, and even brought the script to the actress herself to ask for her input and opinions, and she was sad but agreed that it was the right narrative choice
I also really liked how in the podcast they mentioned a few episodes back that they've started distinguishing between the characters of "Hari" and "Dr. Seldon" due to the drift between the two over time
posted by DoctorFedora at 9:43 PM on September 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
I also really liked how in the podcast they mentioned a few episodes back that they've started distinguishing between the characters of "Hari" and "Dr. Seldon" due to the drift between the two over time
posted by DoctorFedora at 9:43 PM on September 21, 2023 [1 favorite]
How does (holo) Hari know that Demerzel is a robot? Is it possible that this has basically just been inferred (but unspoken for obvious reasons) by any historians who were paying enough attention?
It was also hinted that Sareth had a plan that extended beyond plain revenge. I’d kind of hate to immediately jump 150 years without knowing what that was. For a mystery-box season, this one really tied up its loose ends, making the remaining ones really jump out.
posted by schmod at 8:01 PM on September 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
It was also hinted that Sareth had a plan that extended beyond plain revenge. I’d kind of hate to immediately jump 150 years without knowing what that was. For a mystery-box season, this one really tied up its loose ends, making the remaining ones really jump out.
posted by schmod at 8:01 PM on September 27, 2023 [1 favorite]
‘Foundation’ Renewed for Season 3 at Apple
posted by Gary at 11:57 AM on December 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Gary at 11:57 AM on December 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
Do you know the old joke about how, if black boxes are indestructible, they should make the whole plane out of black box material?
Well, why wouldn't you make the whole Foundation out of Vault material?
posted by kandinski at 4:22 AM on December 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Well, why wouldn't you make the whole Foundation out of Vault material?
posted by kandinski at 4:22 AM on December 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
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Although maybe having a Renegade Day out there (presumably back in the Cloud Dominion? I mean, normally I assume Demerzel would have Empire's fleet go and flatten the Dominion with her "evidence", but, uh.. Well.) will probably rattle things a bit.
Was the implication inside the Foundation Ship that Hari managed to save everybody including the Empire Navy, or was the population of Terminus just much higher than had been really hinted at?
I'm going to miss Salvor, although maybe if Hari stops being such a dang dink Gaal will settle down too?
posted by Kyol at 6:46 PM on September 16, 2023 [1 favorite]