Doctor Who: Wild Blue Yonder
December 2, 2023 11:39 AM - All Seasons - Subscribe
The TARDIS takes the Doctor and Donna to the furthest edge of adventure. To escape, they must face the most desperate fight of their lives, with the fate of the universe at stake.
I'm very upset that they portrayed Isaac Newton as someone capable of joy.
posted by dumbland at 3:06 PM on December 2, 2023 [20 favorites]
posted by dumbland at 3:06 PM on December 2, 2023 [20 favorites]
Fun, creepiness, mavity.
posted by tomboko at 6:15 PM on December 2, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by tomboko at 6:15 PM on December 2, 2023 [5 favorites]
I loved how scenes just had time to breathe. we got to walk down hallways, look out windows, spend time with the quiet. Such fantastic, Doctor Who atmosphere! And the way they set up the reveal of the Space Duplicates--so confident and subtle and then wild and creepy.
posted by meese at 6:20 PM on December 2, 2023 [16 favorites]
posted by meese at 6:20 PM on December 2, 2023 [16 favorites]
I was sort of hoping that Wilf would say something about the mavity of the situation, leaving the Doctor to get that little "oh yeah we need to fix that still" look.
But yeah, good fun, plenty of time to build up the creepiness, even maybe helped the whole gotdang Flux storyline maybe a bit, after it did things to the weeping angels. ... if I'm remembering my not all that distant Doctor lore.
posted by Kyol at 6:50 PM on December 2, 2023 [3 favorites]
But yeah, good fun, plenty of time to build up the creepiness, even maybe helped the whole gotdang Flux storyline maybe a bit, after it did things to the weeping angels. ... if I'm remembering my not all that distant Doctor lore.
posted by Kyol at 6:50 PM on December 2, 2023 [3 favorites]
That was....that was, like, Midnight level good.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:05 PM on December 2, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:05 PM on December 2, 2023 [7 favorites]
Well you can certainly see the Disney money up on the screen.
Yes, but it's still Doctor Who in that most of the episode takes place in the same corridor. Which is good! It felt like a nice combination of having a bigger budget but also being creative with that budget.
I also loved the design of the rusty robot. I'm going to assume the Doctor made another return trip to rescue Jimbo after he rescued Donna.
posted by Gary at 8:48 PM on December 2, 2023 [4 favorites]
Yes, but it's still Doctor Who in that most of the episode takes place in the same corridor. Which is good! It felt like a nice combination of having a bigger budget but also being creative with that budget.
I also loved the design of the rusty robot. I'm going to assume the Doctor made another return trip to rescue Jimbo after he rescued Donna.
posted by Gary at 8:48 PM on December 2, 2023 [4 favorites]
I also loved the design of the rusty robot.
Maybe a nod to Marvin's look in the movie version of HHG2TG? He had a bit of Marvin's hangdog personality about him too.
posted by Paul Slade at 11:33 PM on December 2, 2023 [9 favorites]
Maybe a nod to Marvin's look in the movie version of HHG2TG? He had a bit of Marvin's hangdog personality about him too.
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posted by Paul Slade at 11:33 PM on December 2, 2023 [9 favorites]
EmpressCallipygos: Yes, it felt very similar to Midnight.
It was a good little puzzle that all snapped together satisfyingly in the end.
I did notice: the ship's pilot was the one who actually saved the day, three years ago. Then the Doctor and Donna blundered in accidentally, and almost gave the edge-of-the-universe monsters a way to escape.
posted by davidwitteveen at 2:25 AM on December 3, 2023 [7 favorites]
It was a good little puzzle that all snapped together satisfyingly in the end.
I did notice: the ship's pilot was the one who actually saved the day, three years ago. Then the Doctor and Donna blundered in accidentally, and almost gave the edge-of-the-universe monsters a way to escape.
posted by davidwitteveen at 2:25 AM on December 3, 2023 [7 favorites]
Honestly a great introduction to the show for new viewers. A perfect RTD script. He's always the best at ratcheting up the tension. Those arms looked very Michel Gondry to me.
posted by Catblack at 8:15 AM on December 3, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Catblack at 8:15 AM on December 3, 2023 [3 favorites]
Is the whole show going to be like this? I sure hope it will. I realize we probably aren't seeing a lot of Mystery Box subplotting simply because the main series hasn't started yet, but I think the standalone nature of these two specials has only made them stronger -- there's no distractions, no cruft. I'm not sure Who has ever benefitted from the arciness of the Prestige TV era; it's most fun when anything might happen, and the show can go anywhere.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:55 AM on December 3, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:55 AM on December 3, 2023 [5 favorites]
I'm wondering how long the "mavity" gag will continue. I recall that in BoJack Horseman, BoJack steals the D from the HOLLYWOOD sign and, almost until the end of the series, everyone referred to the community as HOLLYWOO. I wonder if the Doctor might delay getting back to fix that, as Kyol mentions, until a couple more episodes have passed.
posted by SPrintF at 10:54 AM on December 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by SPrintF at 10:54 AM on December 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
Also reminiscent of "parmeesian" from current Rick & Morty
Also: This was very, very good.
EXCEPT: Oh why oh why did they reference the Flux and the Timeless Child storylines, I so hoped RTD would just let that Chibnall-era garbage drift away.
posted by Saxon Kane at 11:08 AM on December 3, 2023 [4 favorites]
Also: This was very, very good.
EXCEPT: Oh why oh why did they reference the Flux and the Timeless Child storylines, I so hoped RTD would just let that Chibnall-era garbage drift away.
posted by Saxon Kane at 11:08 AM on December 3, 2023 [4 favorites]
I'm wondering how long the "mavity" gag will continue.
I don't actually think it's a gag, I think it's more like a "clue". Like how people were using the phrase "Bad Wolf" here and there all throughout the 9th Doctor's stories, but you didn't notice it at first until the very end when they called attention to it and you realized that's something Rose had done throughout. Same too with Clara popping up before Jenna Coleman was "supposed" to start, and you later learned that "oh, she did something that let her magically turn up in all the Doctor's incarnations."
The fact that The Doctor was calling it "gravity" when Donna was calling it "mavity" made me suspect that we're going to find out that reality is all a construct The Toymaker has put together or something, and one of the clues that this is a construct is that everyone's using the "wrong" word and the only one using the "right" one is The Doctor.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:44 AM on December 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
I don't actually think it's a gag, I think it's more like a "clue". Like how people were using the phrase "Bad Wolf" here and there all throughout the 9th Doctor's stories, but you didn't notice it at first until the very end when they called attention to it and you realized that's something Rose had done throughout. Same too with Clara popping up before Jenna Coleman was "supposed" to start, and you later learned that "oh, she did something that let her magically turn up in all the Doctor's incarnations."
The fact that The Doctor was calling it "gravity" when Donna was calling it "mavity" made me suspect that we're going to find out that reality is all a construct The Toymaker has put together or something, and one of the clues that this is a construct is that everyone's using the "wrong" word and the only one using the "right" one is The Doctor.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:44 AM on December 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
If we're referencing ongoing continuity gags, the animated version of The Tick made a point of showing the Moon with 'CHA' carved into it, following our hero's partial foiling of Chairface Chippendale's evil plan to carve his name into the lunar surface.
posted by Major Clanger at 12:10 PM on December 3, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by Major Clanger at 12:10 PM on December 3, 2023 [6 favorites]
The fact that The Doctor was calling it "gravity" when Donna was calling it "mavity" made me suspect that we're going to find out that reality is all a construct The Toymaker has put together or something, and one of the clues that this is a construct is that everyone's using the "wrong" word and the only one using the "right" one is The Doctor.
Stuff like this is probably what I like least about this show, so while I'm reading this and gritting my teeth, I am emotionally preparing myself for it to be 100% correct, lol.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 12:32 PM on December 3, 2023 [3 favorites]
Stuff like this is probably what I like least about this show, so while I'm reading this and gritting my teeth, I am emotionally preparing myself for it to be 100% correct, lol.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 12:32 PM on December 3, 2023 [3 favorites]
...I should say, what bothers me isn't the idea that "mavity" means something serious, but that whatever it means will turn our to somehow invalidate the last two episodes, have them take place in a pocket reality, etc. I'd just be really annoyed by that. And it's totally the kind of thing that this show does sometimes. I'd much rather it was just a silly gag!
posted by kittens for breakfast at 1:48 PM on December 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 1:48 PM on December 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
Checkov's Mavity... now there's a point in time where 'before' is fine and 'after' has changed. Hmmm.
posted by ewan at 1:58 PM on December 3, 2023
posted by ewan at 1:58 PM on December 3, 2023
I enjoyed this. And I enjoy that I can come in here and say that, as it feels like its been a while. Bit scary, even felt like a bit of The Thing energy with not-Doctor dropping into a crab pose and chasing after Donna. Good Gravity gag (not the mavity one, the Donna one just before it where she wanted to get her pun in). Even some Bernard Cribbins!
posted by biffa at 2:04 PM on December 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by biffa at 2:04 PM on December 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
Oh why oh why did they reference the Flux and the Timeless Child storylines
I suspect Davies referenced the Timeless Child stuff to remind us it happened, before he undoes it. I can so easily picture a cackling RTD baddie saying something like, "That was all part of the plan to distract you from the truth. And of course, with your ego, you actually bought it! Do you REALLY think you're so important?"
I feel like Moffat is underrated as a showrunner, but Chibnall was iffy at best and now that Davies is back the gulf between their talents is more stark than ever. This was really good, and seeing Tennant and Tate run around in an RTD story felt so natural that it made wish it could last longer. Do we really only get three episodes before Donna goes home and Tennant regenerates? Can't we have another three seasons instead?
posted by Ursula Hitler at 2:10 PM on December 3, 2023 [8 favorites]
I suspect Davies referenced the Timeless Child stuff to remind us it happened, before he undoes it. I can so easily picture a cackling RTD baddie saying something like, "That was all part of the plan to distract you from the truth. And of course, with your ego, you actually bought it! Do you REALLY think you're so important?"
I feel like Moffat is underrated as a showrunner, but Chibnall was iffy at best and now that Davies is back the gulf between their talents is more stark than ever. This was really good, and seeing Tennant and Tate run around in an RTD story felt so natural that it made wish it could last longer. Do we really only get three episodes before Donna goes home and Tennant regenerates? Can't we have another three seasons instead?
posted by Ursula Hitler at 2:10 PM on December 3, 2023 [8 favorites]
This was great. A kind-of locked-room mystery with just our two main characters. It was creepy and tense and a good contrast to last week's adventure and next week's end-of-the-world shenanigans.
I have to think "mavity" is something other than a silly gag. Seems like a lot of effort to put that opening scene in just to call back to it later - for it to amount to nothing. That opening scene doesn't need to be there at all - they could have just materialised on the space ship.
It was great to see Wilf one last time - Bernard Cribbins was supposed to film more but his failing health didn't allow it and he passed away soon after.
These three episodes are a strange interlude in the series and don't really feel like a 60th Anniversary Special so much as a Doctor-Donna reunion - almost a 20th Anniversary of the reboot era or a grace note on that before the new Doctor and what RTD is calling a new "Series 1".
Love Tennant and Tate but would have liked something more about why Ten's face came back - Moffat gave Capaldi a great moment when he realised he looked like the character he played in the Pompeii episode of Tennant's run.
posted by crossoverman at 3:32 PM on December 3, 2023 [3 favorites]
I have to think "mavity" is something other than a silly gag. Seems like a lot of effort to put that opening scene in just to call back to it later - for it to amount to nothing. That opening scene doesn't need to be there at all - they could have just materialised on the space ship.
It was great to see Wilf one last time - Bernard Cribbins was supposed to film more but his failing health didn't allow it and he passed away soon after.
These three episodes are a strange interlude in the series and don't really feel like a 60th Anniversary Special so much as a Doctor-Donna reunion - almost a 20th Anniversary of the reboot era or a grace note on that before the new Doctor and what RTD is calling a new "Series 1".
Love Tennant and Tate but would have liked something more about why Ten's face came back - Moffat gave Capaldi a great moment when he realised he looked like the character he played in the Pompeii episode of Tennant's run.
posted by crossoverman at 3:32 PM on December 3, 2023 [3 favorites]
Yeah this was great. Loved the weird body horror here, even if it does make this probably too creepy for a younger audience.
I liked how the conclusion was that the pilot had already solved the problem, and the Doctor kind of made it worse by thinking about it. Found the moment where he picked up the wrong Donna a little odd there, not sure what to make of it.
Re: the timeless Child, Davies had already mentioned he had incorporated it, and at least managed to find an angle which is vaguely interesting (guilt about the flux) where Chibnall failed. But yeah ultimately I see it as a narrative dead end that kind of harms parts of the show. It fundamentally undermines the Master, and in fact any future time Lord, if the Doctor is not actually of their species, and is in some way their superior, not due to moral clarity but due to being a different species entirely. I guess there's maybe fun to be had with more past Doctors, but that also feels confused: are they really the Doctor anyway? I don't see how Davies retcons this without completely dissing Chibnall, which I imagine he doesn't want to do.
posted by Cannon Fodder at 3:38 PM on December 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
I liked how the conclusion was that the pilot had already solved the problem, and the Doctor kind of made it worse by thinking about it. Found the moment where he picked up the wrong Donna a little odd there, not sure what to make of it.
Re: the timeless Child, Davies had already mentioned he had incorporated it, and at least managed to find an angle which is vaguely interesting (guilt about the flux) where Chibnall failed. But yeah ultimately I see it as a narrative dead end that kind of harms parts of the show. It fundamentally undermines the Master, and in fact any future time Lord, if the Doctor is not actually of their species, and is in some way their superior, not due to moral clarity but due to being a different species entirely. I guess there's maybe fun to be had with more past Doctors, but that also feels confused: are they really the Doctor anyway? I don't see how Davies retcons this without completely dissing Chibnall, which I imagine he doesn't want to do.
posted by Cannon Fodder at 3:38 PM on December 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
Cannon Fodder, do you remember where RTD talked about his feelings about the Chibnall era? I'd be interested to hear his take, but knowing Davies I'd be surprised if he was openly rude about the stuff he didn't like. And I think he could retcon the Timeless Child stuff without it playing like a dis on Chibnall. All he needs to do is say that it was a piece of an even larger, BIGGER story, that somebody was manipulating the Doctor as part of some plot to destroy the entire universe. Davies loves that shit.
Love Tennant and Tate but would have liked something more about why Ten's face came back
Oh, I don't think we've heard the last of this. I remember, when Davies left last time, hearing an interview where he talked about an idea he had where Matt Smith would keep turning back into David Tennant, but then Davies stopped and said something like, "But, no. I have to stop. It's not my job anymore!" So, he's clearly been sitting on this for a long time, and when we find out it'll probably be a doozy.
(These episodes) don't really feel like a 60th Anniversary Special so much as a Doctor-Donna reunion
Agreed. I'm assuming the third episode will be something where we get surprise visits from other Doctors. But, I don't know. The show was in a pretty dire state before Davies came back, viewership was way down, and maybe he felt like this wasn't the best time for a six-decade nostalgia trip with a guy cosplaying as William Hartnell and a CGI Jon Pertwee and all that. I'd understand if the priority was to get people watching now, with some fun, fast-moving adventures starring the most popular Doctor of the modern era.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 5:34 PM on December 3, 2023 [5 favorites]
Love Tennant and Tate but would have liked something more about why Ten's face came back
Oh, I don't think we've heard the last of this. I remember, when Davies left last time, hearing an interview where he talked about an idea he had where Matt Smith would keep turning back into David Tennant, but then Davies stopped and said something like, "But, no. I have to stop. It's not my job anymore!" So, he's clearly been sitting on this for a long time, and when we find out it'll probably be a doozy.
(These episodes) don't really feel like a 60th Anniversary Special so much as a Doctor-Donna reunion
Agreed. I'm assuming the third episode will be something where we get surprise visits from other Doctors. But, I don't know. The show was in a pretty dire state before Davies came back, viewership was way down, and maybe he felt like this wasn't the best time for a six-decade nostalgia trip with a guy cosplaying as William Hartnell and a CGI Jon Pertwee and all that. I'd understand if the priority was to get people watching now, with some fun, fast-moving adventures starring the most popular Doctor of the modern era.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 5:34 PM on December 3, 2023 [5 favorites]
I was just thinking that it just isn't Christmas without a visit from The Doctor and oh, I discover that this year's Doctor Who Christmas Special will be on the BBC and Disney+.
posted by SPrintF at 5:50 PM on December 3, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by SPrintF at 5:50 PM on December 3, 2023 [4 favorites]
I don't know that Chibnall (or Moffatt for that matter, or Davies himself) would be bothered by retconning his massive retcon. It's baked into the show itself, plus the quality of everything after Chibs' first season (and even some of that) leads me to believe he wasn't personally invested in the show very much, and that he may in fact have had a Vince Russo like attitude towards it.
posted by Saxon Kane at 6:48 PM on December 3, 2023
posted by Saxon Kane at 6:48 PM on December 3, 2023
(These episodes) don't really feel like a 60th Anniversary Special so much as a Doctor-Donna reunion
You say that like it's a bad thing.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:26 PM on December 3, 2023 [12 favorites]
You say that like it's a bad thing.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:26 PM on December 3, 2023 [12 favorites]
For a source on Davies talking about Chibnall see this radio times article. It seems like from this episode that Davies intends to make the flux the new time war, a trauma that haunts the Doctor and that he needs to overcome
posted by Cannon Fodder at 11:55 PM on December 3, 2023
posted by Cannon Fodder at 11:55 PM on December 3, 2023
While I am pretty sure that mavity is just a gag and not some Bad Wolf style clue, I am worried about "Found the moment where he picked up the wrong Donna a little odd there, not sure what to make of it.".
That's twice in two episodes where the viewer has been led pretty far down the path that Donna has died due to the Doctor, only for a "phew" at the end. I worry that this is the ol' 1-2 setup, and that my little heart is going to get broken in two at the end of The Giggle.
posted by Hartster at 2:42 AM on December 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
That's twice in two episodes where the viewer has been led pretty far down the path that Donna has died due to the Doctor, only for a "phew" at the end. I worry that this is the ol' 1-2 setup, and that my little heart is going to get broken in two at the end of The Giggle.
posted by Hartster at 2:42 AM on December 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
Surely it'll be Tennent regenerating at the end of the third Special? See SPrintF's link above for a clue...
posted by biffa at 6:58 AM on December 4, 2023
posted by biffa at 6:58 AM on December 4, 2023
No, YOU started tearing up at the appearance of Bernard Cribbins. ("Not to die of pies, Cribbins!" - a weird Barbelith saying when we all migrated away from the dead site and onto Twitter chats.)
posted by Kitteh at 7:19 AM on December 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 7:19 AM on December 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
Surely it'll be Tennent regenerating at the end of the third Special?
I don't want him to go.
posted by Servo5678 at 7:24 AM on December 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
I don't want him to go.
posted by Servo5678 at 7:24 AM on December 4, 2023 [4 favorites]
The Doctor did say "mavity" twice. The first ("We could be inside a dust cloud or a mavity well, or--") was with a little tip of his head to Donna, as though he was humoring her. Later, at the end, Donna doesn't understand "gravity field" so he repeats himself but says "mavity" instead.
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 10:43 AM on December 4, 2023
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 10:43 AM on December 4, 2023
This, like last week, was.. fun. Puts into stark relief just how poorly-served Jodie was for the entirety of her run.
reality is all a construct The Toymaker has put together or something, and one of the clues that this is a construct is that everyone's using the "wrong" word and the only one using the "right" one is The Doctor
Look I can get behind this, to an extent - if it stems from the regeneration forwards fine.
If they use it to go back and retcon everything between Tennants ima be fucking livid.
posted by coriolisdave at 5:55 PM on December 4, 2023
reality is all a construct The Toymaker has put together or something, and one of the clues that this is a construct is that everyone's using the "wrong" word and the only one using the "right" one is The Doctor
Look I can get behind this, to an extent - if it stems from the regeneration forwards fine.
If they use it to go back and retcon everything between Tennants ima be fucking livid.
posted by coriolisdave at 5:55 PM on December 4, 2023
I was wondering if the alien having a horse’s skull was inspired by Mari Lwyd, given the Welshness of modern Who, but maybe not.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 3:57 AM on December 5, 2023
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 3:57 AM on December 5, 2023
"Not to die of pies, Cribbins!" - a weird Barbelith saying
Hah. I also hung out on Barbelith back in the day, and I had completely forgotten the need to keep Bernard away from the Fray Bentos. So many moons have passed.
posted by Hartster at 2:31 PM on December 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
Hah. I also hung out on Barbelith back in the day, and I had completely forgotten the need to keep Bernard away from the Fray Bentos. So many moons have passed.
posted by Hartster at 2:31 PM on December 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
Huh. I'm surprised to learn that Davies is sticking with the Timeless Child stuff. But then he's shown that he's not above flat-out lying to throw fans off the trail, so who knows what he's really planning? If he does stick around another few seasons I just can't see him leaving the Timeless Child stuff alone. He wouldn't be able to resist throwing us another huge curve ball about the Doctor's origins.
Davies was kind of doing the Marvel Universe thing with Doctor Who before the Marvel Universe was a thing, with multiple shows airing at the same time and crossovers and all that, and I really hope he can resist going too crazy with it this time. I remember feeling overwhelmed when Doctor Who, Torchwood and Sarah Jane Adventures were on the air, it was just too much Who, and given how things are going for Marvel, Star Wars, Star Trek, et al, it feels like audiences are really getting exhausted with the "firehose of content" model.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 3:02 PM on December 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
Davies was kind of doing the Marvel Universe thing with Doctor Who before the Marvel Universe was a thing, with multiple shows airing at the same time and crossovers and all that, and I really hope he can resist going too crazy with it this time. I remember feeling overwhelmed when Doctor Who, Torchwood and Sarah Jane Adventures were on the air, it was just too much Who, and given how things are going for Marvel, Star Wars, Star Trek, et al, it feels like audiences are really getting exhausted with the "firehose of content" model.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 3:02 PM on December 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
I reckon the false Doctor and Donna were inspired by Ron Mueck - specifically this one, which was at the Millennium Dome, and the jaw bit specifically by this bit from Richard Williams' version of A Christmas Carol, which freaked me out when I was small, too.
posted by Grangousier at 3:51 PM on December 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Grangousier at 3:51 PM on December 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
I must admit I don't totally grok the logic of why the TARDIS returned at the exact moment it did at the end. The way the Doctor explains to himself, because the false Doctor isn't going to reach the robot in time, the hostile action will end. But the Doctor doesn't know that the other one won't reach it in time until the TARDIS returns, working on the logic that a time machine would know the exact moment to arrive? But if the Doctor realizes this, surely the false Doctor who's been copying him would know it as well, and-- oh look, I've gone cross-eyed.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 5:05 PM on December 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 5:05 PM on December 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
I must admit I don't totally grok the logic of why the TARDIS returned at the exact moment it did at the end
Something something tardy wardy psychic linky business? The Doc's has some sort of telepathic link with the Tardis, so he just had to convince himself it was safe to return??
I dunno dude I'm stretchin' here
posted by coriolisdave at 6:13 PM on December 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
Something something tardy wardy psychic linky business? The Doc's has some sort of telepathic link with the Tardis, so he just had to convince himself it was safe to return??
I dunno dude I'm stretchin' here
posted by coriolisdave at 6:13 PM on December 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
Your arms are too long?
posted by dr_dank at 6:28 PM on December 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by dr_dank at 6:28 PM on December 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
"Robots. Chases. Waterfalls."
It's a duck-blur?
posted by Parasite Unseen at 2:24 PM on December 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
It's a duck-blur?
posted by Parasite Unseen at 2:24 PM on December 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
I must admit I don't totally grok the logic of why the TARDIS returned at the exact moment it did at the end
Once you make the Tardis have the power to see whether there is a danger to it at a particular time-location you are implying it has a power set that allows for knowledge for a certain amount of time and distance from that time-location. The fact it can go and return implies this knowledge covers a range rather than a fixed point. Thus aany actions in that range are not viewed by the tardis in a linear way, but with the tardis having knowledge over the range throughout. This does become more complex when you consider the potential for gaming its actions, but perhaps the potential for gaming is only meaningful in a linear viewpoint and effectively is instantly negated from the "all knowing" perspective.
posted by biffa at 3:23 PM on December 6, 2023
Once you make the Tardis have the power to see whether there is a danger to it at a particular time-location you are implying it has a power set that allows for knowledge for a certain amount of time and distance from that time-location. The fact it can go and return implies this knowledge covers a range rather than a fixed point. Thus aany actions in that range are not viewed by the tardis in a linear way, but with the tardis having knowledge over the range throughout. This does become more complex when you consider the potential for gaming its actions, but perhaps the potential for gaming is only meaningful in a linear viewpoint and effectively is instantly negated from the "all knowing" perspective.
posted by biffa at 3:23 PM on December 6, 2023
I must admit I don't totally grok the logic of why the TARDIS returned at the exact moment it did at the end
The Doctor sped up the self-destruct. There was now no longer any chance of the Big Bads making it out before they got blown up. So now it was safe to go back and get The Doctor and pull him out so he didn't get blown up too.
It didn't count on The Doctor initially getting the wrong Donna, granted.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:26 PM on December 6, 2023
The Doctor sped up the self-destruct. There was now no longer any chance of the Big Bads making it out before they got blown up. So now it was safe to go back and get The Doctor and pull him out so he didn't get blown up too.
It didn't count on The Doctor initially getting the wrong Donna, granted.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:26 PM on December 6, 2023
It didn't count on The Doctor initially getting the wrong Donna, granted.
Yeah, the weird thing about that is when the Doctor asks "What's funny about Mrs. Bean?" both Donnas overlook the most obvious answer of "Because it would mean she's married to Mr. Bean, of course".
I guess the BBC is forbidden from mentioning one of ITV's most beloved characters?
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 8:09 PM on December 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
Yeah, the weird thing about that is when the Doctor asks "What's funny about Mrs. Bean?" both Donnas overlook the most obvious answer of "Because it would mean she's married to Mr. Bean, of course".
I guess the BBC is forbidden from mentioning one of ITV's most beloved characters?
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 8:09 PM on December 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
It's a duck-blur?
I promise that when I first made this joke I did not remember that David Tennant voiced Scrooge McDuck in the Ducktales reboot from a few years ago.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 9:38 PM on December 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
I promise that when I first made this joke I did not remember that David Tennant voiced Scrooge McDuck in the Ducktales reboot from a few years ago.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 9:38 PM on December 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
In this episode, they both solved a mystery and rewrote history. That tracks.
posted by dr_dank at 5:55 AM on December 7, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by dr_dank at 5:55 AM on December 7, 2023 [5 favorites]
Oh why oh why did they reference the Flux and the Timeless Child storylines, I so hoped RTD would just let that Chibnall-era garbage drift away.
Hard same, my friend, hard same.
But yeah ultimately I see it as a narrative dead end that kind of harms parts of the show. It fundamentally undermines the Master, and in fact any future time Lord, if the Doctor is not actually of their species, and is in some way their superior, not due to moral clarity but due to being a different species entirely.
Yeah, I really hate the idea of the Doctor as THE CHOSEN ONE. I mean, as a Time Lord, he's exceptional by human standards. But what was great about him in the old series was that he was just an average Time Lord -- maybe even a little subpar, with a history of being a misfit, an underachiever, etc. -- who made a difference because he chose to.
I want that Doctor back, for good -- a hero who fully and completely had to choose to be a hero, not a Potter or Skywalker thrust into greatness because of some special bloodline.
It seems like from this episode that Davies intends to make the flux the new time war, a trauma that haunts the Doctor and that he needs to overcome
Meh. I really thought the show had gotten past the endlessly mopey PTSD Doctor tropes. And then RTD just reups them. Sigh.
Love Tennant and Tate but would have liked something more about why Ten's face came back
It seems pretty clear that they're setting this question up to be answered in the third special.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 12:56 PM on December 7, 2023 [5 favorites]
Hard same, my friend, hard same.
But yeah ultimately I see it as a narrative dead end that kind of harms parts of the show. It fundamentally undermines the Master, and in fact any future time Lord, if the Doctor is not actually of their species, and is in some way their superior, not due to moral clarity but due to being a different species entirely.
Yeah, I really hate the idea of the Doctor as THE CHOSEN ONE. I mean, as a Time Lord, he's exceptional by human standards. But what was great about him in the old series was that he was just an average Time Lord -- maybe even a little subpar, with a history of being a misfit, an underachiever, etc. -- who made a difference because he chose to.
I want that Doctor back, for good -- a hero who fully and completely had to choose to be a hero, not a Potter or Skywalker thrust into greatness because of some special bloodline.
It seems like from this episode that Davies intends to make the flux the new time war, a trauma that haunts the Doctor and that he needs to overcome
Meh. I really thought the show had gotten past the endlessly mopey PTSD Doctor tropes. And then RTD just reups them. Sigh.
Love Tennant and Tate but would have liked something more about why Ten's face came back
It seems pretty clear that they're setting this question up to be answered in the third special.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 12:56 PM on December 7, 2023 [5 favorites]
I do think this was a pretty good episode. It showcases RTD's strengths, and makes it clear how much better he is at this than Chibnall.
And while I'm not happy that the Timeless Child foolishness is not being allowed to just quietly be forgotten, I felt like this episode effectively showcased two of the things I liked most about the Chibnall era.
Specifically, it had a very vivid color palette, which most Chibnall episodes had. And it had some cool, ethereal electronic music -- quite different from the usual Murray Gold pablum, which is like a generic Nth-generation photocopy of John Williams (himself a prolific photocopier of various classical composers).
Like others, I am worried about a firehose of DW content -- I don't need or want a Doctor Who cinematic universe, thanks. But a Disney adult of my acquaintance, who also happens to be a (post-2005) DW fan, is thrilled, natch. Sigh.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 1:02 PM on December 7, 2023
And while I'm not happy that the Timeless Child foolishness is not being allowed to just quietly be forgotten, I felt like this episode effectively showcased two of the things I liked most about the Chibnall era.
Specifically, it had a very vivid color palette, which most Chibnall episodes had. And it had some cool, ethereal electronic music -- quite different from the usual Murray Gold pablum, which is like a generic Nth-generation photocopy of John Williams (himself a prolific photocopier of various classical composers).
Like others, I am worried about a firehose of DW content -- I don't need or want a Doctor Who cinematic universe, thanks. But a Disney adult of my acquaintance, who also happens to be a (post-2005) DW fan, is thrilled, natch. Sigh.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 1:02 PM on December 7, 2023
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posted by Paul Slade at 12:01 PM on December 2, 2023 [2 favorites]