Alien vs. Predator (2004)
January 11, 2024 4:27 PM - Subscribe
Ehhh, what the heck, let's toss AvP:Requiem in here too. It's not like these movies are so good (or bad) that anyone is going to get super upset that Requiem doesn't have its own Fanfare thread.
With my wife, having watched (or re-watched, I'm not entirely sure if I've seen Requiem before and forgotten, and having just watched it again, I'm eager to forget it) both over the last two nights...
AvP:
Better than I thought! I remembered it as being a nonsensical slog but almost 20 years later, it seemed to hang together okay; the story storied and the characters were fairly distinct with their motivations; the lead was a competent woman who stays a competent woman.
Reading old reviews now, it seems like a lot of the criticism was that (a) it's super dark and hard to see the action; and (b) the plot was convoluted with too many elements in the lore, etc.
And... I wish it was a bit lighter, for sure, but maybe in the intervening 20ish years I've gotten so used to convoluted stories that this just seemed like a normal-ish level of story lore? Maybe this is an inadvertent side affect of Marvel movies and we've acclimated to canon so this just didn't seem that out there.
On the whole: solid! Not a timeless work of genius, but not shamefully bad.
AvP Requiem:
Shamefully bad.
We agreed that it was sort of impressive that they Went There first by killing the cherubic forest child, then Really Went There by killing a pregnant lady, then Really Really Went There by having Xenos devour an entire metric busload of babies (and more pregnant ladies).
But just nothing there. No charm, no fun. Darker even than AvP, in all senses.
With my wife, having watched (or re-watched, I'm not entirely sure if I've seen Requiem before and forgotten, and having just watched it again, I'm eager to forget it) both over the last two nights...
AvP:
Better than I thought! I remembered it as being a nonsensical slog but almost 20 years later, it seemed to hang together okay; the story storied and the characters were fairly distinct with their motivations; the lead was a competent woman who stays a competent woman.
Reading old reviews now, it seems like a lot of the criticism was that (a) it's super dark and hard to see the action; and (b) the plot was convoluted with too many elements in the lore, etc.
And... I wish it was a bit lighter, for sure, but maybe in the intervening 20ish years I've gotten so used to convoluted stories that this just seemed like a normal-ish level of story lore? Maybe this is an inadvertent side affect of Marvel movies and we've acclimated to canon so this just didn't seem that out there.
On the whole: solid! Not a timeless work of genius, but not shamefully bad.
AvP Requiem:
Shamefully bad.
We agreed that it was sort of impressive that they Went There first by killing the cherubic forest child, then Really Went There by killing a pregnant lady, then Really Really Went There by having Xenos devour an entire metric busload of babies (and more pregnant ladies).
But just nothing there. No charm, no fun. Darker even than AvP, in all senses.
This is what movie archaeologists do.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:06 PM on January 11 [1 favorite]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 6:06 PM on January 11 [1 favorite]
Tried watching the first one and bounced off of it, although I'd heard good things about Sanaa Lathan. Didn't even try watching the second one after catching a glimpse of a scene involving a pregnant woman and a full-grown xenomorph that... I don't even want to write it. It was like someone's extremely disturbing fetish. I guess they made the less-celebrated movies in the two franchises look better.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:27 PM on January 11
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:27 PM on January 11
I liked AvP. It is very silly and uses some forgotten elements from the original Alien novelisation. It isn't deep but this was such a fanservice for a certain kind of fandom. Which I might be? Let's say... maybe. Paul W.S. Anderson is also IMO an under appreciated genre director (I like his junky Resident Evil series).
Requiem was a slog for me. Boring, poorly directed, poorly written. It was nominated for a Razzie in 2008 for worst sequel/prequel and lost to Daddy Day Camp (which is fair I think).
posted by Ashwagandha at 6:32 PM on January 11
Requiem was a slog for me. Boring, poorly directed, poorly written. It was nominated for a Razzie in 2008 for worst sequel/prequel and lost to Daddy Day Camp (which is fair I think).
posted by Ashwagandha at 6:32 PM on January 11
He's hit and miss even at that level, but if you're making a B movie and you know it's a B movie and you want it to be a B movie... but you want it to be actually fun, and maybe look a little bit better than it needs to, and probably not be any stupider than it's gotta be... then Paul WS Anderson is a good bet.
The thing about Sanaa Lathan in this movie is less her directly and more the other characters -- nobody ever doubts her, she never has to prove herself to anyone, everyone just says "Yup, hypercompetent badass."
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:34 PM on January 11 [4 favorites]
The thing about Sanaa Lathan in this movie is less her directly and more the other characters -- nobody ever doubts her, she never has to prove herself to anyone, everyone just says "Yup, hypercompetent badass."
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:34 PM on January 11 [4 favorites]
I'm definitely never going to rewatch these, but what I remember is:
1) I really hated the improbable Indiana Jones-esque ancient alien temple in the first one. IIRC what really did for my suspension of disbelief was when they found some ancient alien artifact with a secret code that was based on a modern human calendar / alphabet / number system or something similar. It was dumb. It's the kind of thing that really ruins a story for me.
2) I liked the last ten minutes or so of the first one, when the alien queen is running around the frozen polar station, because it's difficult to fuck that up. Having a real, plausible location was refreshing.
3) I thought the second movie was absolutely dreadful, but there's a good bit when the predator sent to clean up the mess has just finished meticulously dissolving away a small bit of incriminating predalien residue... and then crests a hill to see about 1000x more mess to clean up. The actor is covered in heavy alien makeup, but really manages to convey that "aw, fuck" with his body language.
posted by confluency at 3:53 AM on January 12
1) I really hated the improbable Indiana Jones-esque ancient alien temple in the first one. IIRC what really did for my suspension of disbelief was when they found some ancient alien artifact with a secret code that was based on a modern human calendar / alphabet / number system or something similar. It was dumb. It's the kind of thing that really ruins a story for me.
2) I liked the last ten minutes or so of the first one, when the alien queen is running around the frozen polar station, because it's difficult to fuck that up. Having a real, plausible location was refreshing.
3) I thought the second movie was absolutely dreadful, but there's a good bit when the predator sent to clean up the mess has just finished meticulously dissolving away a small bit of incriminating predalien residue... and then crests a hill to see about 1000x more mess to clean up. The actor is covered in heavy alien makeup, but really manages to convey that "aw, fuck" with his body language.
posted by confluency at 3:53 AM on January 12
The thing about Sanaa Lathan in this movie is less her directly and more the other characters -- nobody ever doubts her, she never has to prove herself to anyone, everyone just says "Yup, hypercompetent badass."
Right?? I love that. And for me, seeing this film twenty years later (*crumbles into dust*), I love that no one questions her abilities or derides her--except for maybe Colin Salmon giving her The Rock eyebrow when she demands that they head back to base and regroup the next day. It was refreshing to see that. Especially since the character is a Black woman.
posted by Kitteh at 4:27 AM on January 12
Right?? I love that. And for me, seeing this film twenty years later (*crumbles into dust*), I love that no one questions her abilities or derides her--except for maybe Colin Salmon giving her The Rock eyebrow when she demands that they head back to base and regroup the next day. It was refreshing to see that. Especially since the character is a Black woman.
posted by Kitteh at 4:27 AM on January 12
I dragged the person I'm now married to to see AVP in theaters and I've never been forgiven. We also saw Blade: Trinity in theaters that year, so it was all around a bad year to be dating me.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:47 AM on January 12 [2 favorites]
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:47 AM on January 12 [2 favorites]
I really hated the improbable Indiana Jones-esque ancient alien temple in the first one.
I agree with you about the calendar but it wasn't really a temple, it was just the obstacle course for Predatorian Ninja. So of course it would do bullshit like that.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 7:58 AM on January 12
I agree with you about the calendar but it wasn't really a temple, it was just the obstacle course for Predatorian Ninja. So of course it would do bullshit like that.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 7:58 AM on January 12
so it was all around a bad year to be dating me.
My partner and I long ago came to terms with are disparate tastes. I think that is a key to a long term relationship. They can watch the Crown and I will watch Help Me I'm Possessed!
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:51 AM on January 12 [2 favorites]
My partner and I long ago came to terms with are disparate tastes. I think that is a key to a long term relationship. They can watch the Crown and I will watch Help Me I'm Possessed!
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:51 AM on January 12 [2 favorites]
Can I throw in that "Whoever wins, we lose" doesn't really make sense. If the xenomorphs win sure, humanity is fucked. but if the predators win, its basically the same status quo as after the first predator movie.
Paul W.S. Anderson is also IMO an under appreciated genre director (I like his junky Resident Evil series).
I have watched the full RE series at least twice, and while I get some enjoyment out of it, I think Anderson is probably appreciated about right. He's pretty bad. The endings of most of the RE films has virtually no continuity with the succeeding film, even where he sets up a particular ending so that it can easily have a follow on story. His Three Musketeers is one of the worst efforts on that story, an unforgivable waste of Mads Mikkelsen as Rochefort, and Christopher Waltz as Richelieu, with a nonsense script and an unlikable D'Artagnan.
No, I can't explain why i have watched his entire back catalogue.
posted by biffa at 9:09 AM on January 12 [1 favorite]
Paul W.S. Anderson is also IMO an under appreciated genre director (I like his junky Resident Evil series).
I have watched the full RE series at least twice, and while I get some enjoyment out of it, I think Anderson is probably appreciated about right. He's pretty bad. The endings of most of the RE films has virtually no continuity with the succeeding film, even where he sets up a particular ending so that it can easily have a follow on story. His Three Musketeers is one of the worst efforts on that story, an unforgivable waste of Mads Mikkelsen as Rochefort, and Christopher Waltz as Richelieu, with a nonsense script and an unlikable D'Artagnan.
No, I can't explain why i have watched his entire back catalogue.
posted by biffa at 9:09 AM on January 12 [1 favorite]
I actually like that the Resident Evil series has no true continuity, it is a feature for me rather than a bug. I think his films have a lot more personality then you'd expect for junk, YMMV. But I agree the 3 Musketeers he did is very poor.
posted by Ashwagandha at 7:22 PM on January 12
posted by Ashwagandha at 7:22 PM on January 12
I liked AvP…. Paul W.S. Anderson is also IMO an under appreciated genre director (I like his junky Resident Evil series).
Requiem was a slog for me.
Ashwaganda: where you lead, I am prepared to follow.
AvP was a B-movie, certes, with a much better cast and better effects than it seemed possible to get into it. I have said before that the Alien franchise was unique for a long time in that unlike most other reasonably contemporary franchises (Jaws, Superman, or any horror series you care to name), later instalments weren’t just handed off to ever shlockier writers and directors with continually decreasing budgets. Ridley Scott, James Cameron, David Fincher, Jean-Pierre Jeunet: these are all people who have made some pretty good movies. Say what you will of PWS Anderson, but he is an auteur of B-movies.
As for the followup, Los Bros Strause not only did not understand the theme of the movie they were making, they didn’t know how the fucking lights worked.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:07 AM on January 14
Requiem was a slog for me.
Ashwaganda: where you lead, I am prepared to follow.
AvP was a B-movie, certes, with a much better cast and better effects than it seemed possible to get into it. I have said before that the Alien franchise was unique for a long time in that unlike most other reasonably contemporary franchises (Jaws, Superman, or any horror series you care to name), later instalments weren’t just handed off to ever shlockier writers and directors with continually decreasing budgets. Ridley Scott, James Cameron, David Fincher, Jean-Pierre Jeunet: these are all people who have made some pretty good movies. Say what you will of PWS Anderson, but he is an auteur of B-movies.
As for the followup, Los Bros Strause not only did not understand the theme of the movie they were making, they didn’t know how the fucking lights worked.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:07 AM on January 14
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You have to admit, it was really handy to have the kind of archaeologists who could craft a narrative from the hieroglyphics of three cultures into a coherent story!
posted by Kitteh at 4:31 PM on January 11 [3 favorites]