True Detective: Night Country, Episode 6 (finale)
February 19, 2024 4:05 PM - Season 4, Episode 6 - Subscribe
In the midst of a brutal storm, Danvers and Navarro find themselves stuck at Tsalal with no electricity or means of contact. As the truth about what happened to Annie and the Tsalal men unfolds, Navarro and Danvers each confront the demons from their past. [via Reddit's live episode discussion]
I love how well they executed that traditional mystery trope of the rando side character from the introduction coming back with high significance in the conclusion. Really nice explanation of events, and super satisfying agency from the group of indigenous women.
posted by migurski at 4:14 PM on February 19 [11 favorites]
posted by migurski at 4:14 PM on February 19 [11 favorites]
Still processing, but I find it interesting that Sepinwall was really positive and others were a lot less positive. I'm usually in the same boat as Sepinwall, but honestly, really feeling Romano the more I think about it.
posted by General Malaise at 4:37 PM on February 19 [1 favorite]
posted by General Malaise at 4:37 PM on February 19 [1 favorite]
I've been down on the season to date so I guess I was predisposed to not like the finale and yep, I did not like that finale. This whole thing felt like a lot of potential wasted.
The only character I really enjoyed was Rose, played by Fiona Shaw - who always seems to rule. I would watch a spin off exclusively about her character and none of the others. Except maybe Pete, he can come by every once in awhile.
posted by kbanas at 5:14 PM on February 19 [6 favorites]
The only character I really enjoyed was Rose, played by Fiona Shaw - who always seems to rule. I would watch a spin off exclusively about her character and none of the others. Except maybe Pete, he can come by every once in awhile.
posted by kbanas at 5:14 PM on February 19 [6 favorites]
This episode gave me the vibes that the script was based on a session of a roleplaying game.
posted by onya at 5:15 PM on February 19 [4 favorites]
posted by onya at 5:15 PM on February 19 [4 favorites]
It was not a tightly plotted show, and I definitely had criticisms, but I found the ending so much more satisfying than True Det. 1. And I liked this essay:
The spiral symbol that plays a significant role in both seasons also does not necessarily mean the same thing in Night Country as it did when Marty and Rust encountered it. By the end of Sunday’s finale, it’s clear that such iconography existed in Ennis for a long time, possibly millenia, and its significance predates its affiliation with a pedophile cult in Louisiana in the 1990s. By recontextualizing details from the first season, López and her collaborators are showing us that the stories we tell ourselves have all been told before. They just manifest themselves differently depending on the culture and climate that gave birth to them.
posted by oneirodynia at 5:26 PM on February 19 [4 favorites]
The spiral symbol that plays a significant role in both seasons also does not necessarily mean the same thing in Night Country as it did when Marty and Rust encountered it. By the end of Sunday’s finale, it’s clear that such iconography existed in Ennis for a long time, possibly millenia, and its significance predates its affiliation with a pedophile cult in Louisiana in the 1990s. By recontextualizing details from the first season, López and her collaborators are showing us that the stories we tell ourselves have all been told before. They just manifest themselves differently depending on the culture and climate that gave birth to them.
posted by oneirodynia at 5:26 PM on February 19 [4 favorites]
I enjoyed watching it, and I think it was pretty good, but the 'tongue' was used as evidence to link the initial event to Annie, but then was not explained... Don't tell me that some questions don't have answers... it was there in episode one, by the final episode I should know if was Hank, Annie's ghost, or the group of women avenging her death who left it there. For me, it felt like a plot device that wasn't fully realised.
Fiona Shaw rocked it though - would love a show just about her character spookily solving crimes in Alaska while cleaning and loading rifles.
posted by Elmore at 5:54 PM on February 19 [4 favorites]
Fiona Shaw rocked it though - would love a show just about her character spookily solving crimes in Alaska while cleaning and loading rifles.
posted by Elmore at 5:54 PM on February 19 [4 favorites]
There's so many things that made no sense about the finale... the cave system being right under the lab the whole time, the idiotic melt the permafrost with pollution plan, that there was a dozen or more women who knew what happened and our true detectives still had no clue until it was spelled out for them. Sometimes when you swing for the fences, you hit a bloop pop fly easy out. So much potential, so little delivery.
posted by kokaku at 5:59 PM on February 19 [13 favorites]
posted by kokaku at 5:59 PM on February 19 [13 favorites]
The cave system being under the lab makes sense, in that the entire purpose of the lab seems to have been to draw samples out of the cave system - that's why they built it there in the first place. Making the entrance into the cave systems a secret floor hatch instead of a big wide elevator access thing to move core samples up and down is a bit sillier buuuuuut okay.
I can also get behind the women knowing what happened to Annie but the detectives needing ages to figure it out - the women were embedded in the lives of all these mine/lab/fishery people and treated as invisible and disposable the entire time. It's a very 'butler did it' kind of thing. And why they didn't go to the police in the first place is pretty clear cut - the entirety of the police force was dismissive at best, and actively covering up murders at worst. The mine owned the cops and Navarro was the only one who cared enough to keep trying, and it got her shuffled off the team for her efforts.
I'll take the level of supernaturality we got - it was clear that multiple people were being affected by phantasmal entities, and the tongue / folks clawing out their eyes / earbleeds ahoy were all left in the 'ghost did it' category. Forcing in a 'time is a flat circle' callback felt a little ham-handed, but the idea that the spirit of this place existed long before Annie and merely took the shape of her rage and vengeance for the recent events was a nice take on this sort of eternal recurrence.
posted by FatherDagon at 7:02 PM on February 19 [10 favorites]
I can also get behind the women knowing what happened to Annie but the detectives needing ages to figure it out - the women were embedded in the lives of all these mine/lab/fishery people and treated as invisible and disposable the entire time. It's a very 'butler did it' kind of thing. And why they didn't go to the police in the first place is pretty clear cut - the entirety of the police force was dismissive at best, and actively covering up murders at worst. The mine owned the cops and Navarro was the only one who cared enough to keep trying, and it got her shuffled off the team for her efforts.
I'll take the level of supernaturality we got - it was clear that multiple people were being affected by phantasmal entities, and the tongue / folks clawing out their eyes / earbleeds ahoy were all left in the 'ghost did it' category. Forcing in a 'time is a flat circle' callback felt a little ham-handed, but the idea that the spirit of this place existed long before Annie and merely took the shape of her rage and vengeance for the recent events was a nice take on this sort of eternal recurrence.
posted by FatherDagon at 7:02 PM on February 19 [10 favorites]
I was content with the ending; I felt like things were explained as much as I cared for them to be explained. It didn't quite hang together, but I really liked Foster and Reis together. When they went to confront the women, I loved how many of them kept coming out of the rooms. It absolutely evoked the birth that Navarro went to, and it made so much sense to me that these women would want to avenge Annie's death.
There was a time in this show that I honestly thought Fiona Shaw was playing a dead character. Like, we'd find out that only Navarro could see Rose. It was weird, but I still liked it.
Even if it didn't hang together, I loved the tone of it. It was closer to horror, and the strong indigenous presence made it more interesting to me. The eternal night setting, the lab, and even the holiday timing worked for me. I'd watch more by Lopez.
posted by gladly at 7:08 PM on February 19 [13 favorites]
There was a time in this show that I honestly thought Fiona Shaw was playing a dead character. Like, we'd find out that only Navarro could see Rose. It was weird, but I still liked it.
Even if it didn't hang together, I loved the tone of it. It was closer to horror, and the strong indigenous presence made it more interesting to me. The eternal night setting, the lab, and even the holiday timing worked for me. I'd watch more by Lopez.
posted by gladly at 7:08 PM on February 19 [13 favorites]
I'm with you for the most part, gladly. The one moment that really felt completely off to me was the "time is a flat circle" when Clark "sees" Navarro through time. That was just too silly for me.
In terms of the tongue being unresolved, remember her lesson to Prior the previous episode is "Know when to stop asking questions." I'm ok with the tongue being left as an open question.
Overall, I enjoyed it. I liked the atmosphere of it, the eldritchian touches, and the indigenous presence. Definitely curious what Lopez does next.
posted by miss-lapin at 8:50 PM on February 19 [4 favorites]
In terms of the tongue being unresolved, remember her lesson to Prior the previous episode is "Know when to stop asking questions." I'm ok with the tongue being left as an open question.
Overall, I enjoyed it. I liked the atmosphere of it, the eldritchian touches, and the indigenous presence. Definitely curious what Lopez does next.
posted by miss-lapin at 8:50 PM on February 19 [4 favorites]
I thought the first three episodes were excellent – they evoked a specific and lived-in sense of place and mood. The acting was terrific. The setups were intriguing. And Issa Lopez is a prolific, talented, and highly celebrated writer working successfully across multiple mediums. So it gives me no pleasure to say I think the last three episodes were mostly bunk, especially the lazy, fill-in-the-blank characterization.
Take the six frozen scientists, Annie's murderers: can the viewer name two without aid of the internet? Or describe their characters, as individuals? Not really, as it's revealed they all swarmed Annie as one and instantly murdered her upon discovering she'd destroyed their work. Really? All of them? No disagreement or hesitation? Functionally, they're all the same blank, generic character.
The eleven indigenous women in the finale, Annie's avengers: same questions. Again, I think a viewer would be hard-pressed to name or describe the more than two of them because the show largely didn't bother to individuate them. Nobody had second thoughts? No one had a guilty conscience after? They too are basically all the same character.
Placeholder traumas and unmotivated jumps in characterization: Danvers is racist against her stepdaughter because... her son died in a car accident? And her husband, too? Does that make narrative sense? She goes from a lifetime skeptic and "take my son's name out of your mouth" to "tell me what his ghost said" in 10 minutes after one dip under the ice?
The Tsalal scientists found what exactly under the ice? It's never specified. Something important enough to kill for, apparently, but you'll have to fill in that blank yourself, too.
Danvers' and Navarro's relationship pre-Wheeler: what was lost between them, exactly, when Navarro shot Wheeler? We have no idea what their relationship was. It's an incredible testament to the power of the two lead actors' performances that we do in fact feel that something must have been lost between them after that shooting, but it's never dramatized.
Leaving aside all the other wonky stuff and open questions people have raised: the detectives spent six episodes looking for Clark and upon finding him, they torture and tie him to a chair and go get a snack? Build a fire and have a heart to heart? Take a nap and wait around to freeze? This show is a character piece where the characterization is largely MIA.
posted by reclusive_thousandaire at 9:33 PM on February 19 [17 favorites]
Take the six frozen scientists, Annie's murderers: can the viewer name two without aid of the internet? Or describe their characters, as individuals? Not really, as it's revealed they all swarmed Annie as one and instantly murdered her upon discovering she'd destroyed their work. Really? All of them? No disagreement or hesitation? Functionally, they're all the same blank, generic character.
The eleven indigenous women in the finale, Annie's avengers: same questions. Again, I think a viewer would be hard-pressed to name or describe the more than two of them because the show largely didn't bother to individuate them. Nobody had second thoughts? No one had a guilty conscience after? They too are basically all the same character.
Placeholder traumas and unmotivated jumps in characterization: Danvers is racist against her stepdaughter because... her son died in a car accident? And her husband, too? Does that make narrative sense? She goes from a lifetime skeptic and "take my son's name out of your mouth" to "tell me what his ghost said" in 10 minutes after one dip under the ice?
The Tsalal scientists found what exactly under the ice? It's never specified. Something important enough to kill for, apparently, but you'll have to fill in that blank yourself, too.
Danvers' and Navarro's relationship pre-Wheeler: what was lost between them, exactly, when Navarro shot Wheeler? We have no idea what their relationship was. It's an incredible testament to the power of the two lead actors' performances that we do in fact feel that something must have been lost between them after that shooting, but it's never dramatized.
Leaving aside all the other wonky stuff and open questions people have raised: the detectives spent six episodes looking for Clark and upon finding him, they torture and tie him to a chair and go get a snack? Build a fire and have a heart to heart? Take a nap and wait around to freeze? This show is a character piece where the characterization is largely MIA.
posted by reclusive_thousandaire at 9:33 PM on February 19 [17 favorites]
This finale was so bad I’m forced to conclude that it was written by the same AI that designed the uncanny “rock band” posters in episode two.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:45 AM on February 20 [13 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:45 AM on February 20 [13 favorites]
>> Take the six frozen scientists, Annie's murderers: can the viewer name two without aid of the internet? Or describe their characters, as individuals?
Sure! There was... uh... sandwich guy, he spoke Spanish or maybe Portuguese, and there was book guy who didn't fancy watching Ferris Bueller and instead grabbed a hefty novel. Let's not forget laundry guy and also running guy. That's... four? Was popcorn guy also sandwich guy? Or were any of them actually Lund? Damn. Oh! Oh! Funyuns guys! There was a guy who loved Funyuns!
By sheer coincidence I watched The Great Escape (1963) on Sunday afternoon so when the spilled bucket revealed the hidden tunnel I was delighted.
I'm fuzzy on the timeline between the Wheeler flashback and the present day investigation but was the baby crying after Navarro shot Wheeler Leah Danvers? I got to the end of the show still confused on their dynamic. Adopted? Stepdaughter? Who was the dad? Otherwise, what happened to the Wheeler baby?
posted by Molesome at 2:12 AM on February 20 [2 favorites]
Sure! There was... uh... sandwich guy, he spoke Spanish or maybe Portuguese, and there was book guy who didn't fancy watching Ferris Bueller and instead grabbed a hefty novel. Let's not forget laundry guy and also running guy. That's... four? Was popcorn guy also sandwich guy? Or were any of them actually Lund? Damn. Oh! Oh! Funyuns guys! There was a guy who loved Funyuns!
By sheer coincidence I watched The Great Escape (1963) on Sunday afternoon so when the spilled bucket revealed the hidden tunnel I was delighted.
I'm fuzzy on the timeline between the Wheeler flashback and the present day investigation but was the baby crying after Navarro shot Wheeler Leah Danvers? I got to the end of the show still confused on their dynamic. Adopted? Stepdaughter? Who was the dad? Otherwise, what happened to the Wheeler baby?
posted by Molesome at 2:12 AM on February 20 [2 favorites]
Well, maybe I'm a big ol' dummy but I really liked the entire season; second favourite of the series after 1. Maybe a bit more than 1? I found it had more interesting characters and character development at the centre than 1, which did feature a lot of Rust and Cole barking at each other and wandering around for ultimately no great reason.
Things like "we don't know each individual scientist as a person" didn't and don't really bother me. I think the show focused on the right people, the plot moved along well, and ultimately there was no more nonsense in this season than the first season, which seems to have assumed some sort of golden haze retroactively where people forget that it was also meandering, had inexplicable supernatural stuff, and focused on the detectives' personal and domestic lives to the point that it also didn't individually delve into the rich and nuanced history of Meth Guy With Gas Mask, etc.
Metafilter is not a place I normally feel I'd say this, but it's kinda weird that across the Internet the shared narrative seems to be "given equal amounts of nonsense, we'll give the season with two charismatic white male leads a pass, but the one with two female leads, one Indigenous, will get tarred as ridiculous."
Again, maybe I'm a poor critic, and not picking up on why this season is so much worse than 1. But there's one key casting difference, and it seems like that difference bought the weird plotting and lack of tightness of Season 1 a lot of forgiveness, but this one seems doomed to be carefully picked over for every minor flaw from the jump.
posted by Shepherd at 2:48 AM on February 20 [18 favorites]
Things like "we don't know each individual scientist as a person" didn't and don't really bother me. I think the show focused on the right people, the plot moved along well, and ultimately there was no more nonsense in this season than the first season, which seems to have assumed some sort of golden haze retroactively where people forget that it was also meandering, had inexplicable supernatural stuff, and focused on the detectives' personal and domestic lives to the point that it also didn't individually delve into the rich and nuanced history of Meth Guy With Gas Mask, etc.
Metafilter is not a place I normally feel I'd say this, but it's kinda weird that across the Internet the shared narrative seems to be "given equal amounts of nonsense, we'll give the season with two charismatic white male leads a pass, but the one with two female leads, one Indigenous, will get tarred as ridiculous."
Again, maybe I'm a poor critic, and not picking up on why this season is so much worse than 1. But there's one key casting difference, and it seems like that difference bought the weird plotting and lack of tightness of Season 1 a lot of forgiveness, but this one seems doomed to be carefully picked over for every minor flaw from the jump.
posted by Shepherd at 2:48 AM on February 20 [18 favorites]
Levity aside, I found the conclusion satisfying and appreciated the duality of explanation offered as it brought both main characters to a sense of closure they could live with and within a framework akin to a season two X-Files episode where Mulder continues to believe with minor doubts and Scully remains semi-sceptical but can't dismiss that *something* strange was involved, but they remain partners and nothing can break that bond.
posted by Molesome at 3:32 AM on February 20 [3 favorites]
posted by Molesome at 3:32 AM on February 20 [3 favorites]
There were some elements of the plot I also found a bit perfunctory, but the emotional beats mostly made sense to me.
Placeholder traumas and unmotivated jumps in characterization: Danvers is racist against her stepdaughter because... her son died in a car accident? And her husband, too? Does that make narrative sense? She goes from a lifetime skeptic and "take my son's name out of your mouth" to "tell me what his ghost said" in 10 minutes after one dip under the ice?
Danver's racism could have been better explored, but I don't think it's entirely absurd to link it partly to the loss of her child. Her grief makes her extra-anxious about losing another child, and she sees the indigenous activists as a potentially dangerous influence on her stepdaughter, because she saw what happened to Anni K.
I do think "one dip unter the ice" is a strange way to frame a near-death-experience. We see Danvers struggle to come back to the surface, and give up. She's already sinking down again, when Navarro saves her in the last minute. Danvers almost died that moment. That's going to put some things in perspective.
posted by sohalt at 3:50 AM on February 20 [8 favorites]
Placeholder traumas and unmotivated jumps in characterization: Danvers is racist against her stepdaughter because... her son died in a car accident? And her husband, too? Does that make narrative sense? She goes from a lifetime skeptic and "take my son's name out of your mouth" to "tell me what his ghost said" in 10 minutes after one dip under the ice?
Danver's racism could have been better explored, but I don't think it's entirely absurd to link it partly to the loss of her child. Her grief makes her extra-anxious about losing another child, and she sees the indigenous activists as a potentially dangerous influence on her stepdaughter, because she saw what happened to Anni K.
I do think "one dip unter the ice" is a strange way to frame a near-death-experience. We see Danvers struggle to come back to the surface, and give up. She's already sinking down again, when Navarro saves her in the last minute. Danvers almost died that moment. That's going to put some things in perspective.
posted by sohalt at 3:50 AM on February 20 [8 favorites]
The magic pollution reveal is quite a howler.
I liked that Navarro got her name; I liked Danvers' sly statement that they won't find anyone named Navarro out on the ice. Again I really wish there'd been better chemistry between the two of them.
The whole resolution of the Priors was bad, I think. The dad getting murderous, getting killed, needing disposal, O the feelings; bleh, just a bad destination for the time spent in those characters.
Rose is a fairly pointless character. She's red meat to some people I suppose. Witch fulfillment.
posted by fleacircus at 4:58 AM on February 20 [3 favorites]
I liked that Navarro got her name; I liked Danvers' sly statement that they won't find anyone named Navarro out on the ice. Again I really wish there'd been better chemistry between the two of them.
The whole resolution of the Priors was bad, I think. The dad getting murderous, getting killed, needing disposal, O the feelings; bleh, just a bad destination for the time spent in those characters.
Rose is a fairly pointless character. She's red meat to some people I suppose. Witch fulfillment.
posted by fleacircus at 4:58 AM on February 20 [3 favorites]
Given that so many families and friend of MMIWG never see justice at all, I am 100% onboard with this revenge scenario. There are so many movies about white people taking justice into their own hands--some framed as justified, some as monsters--that I can comprehend and understand this twist on the narrative. It is a narrative that doesn't get enough screen time anywhere.
Most of the recaps I came across were really nasty, very misogynistic in tone, and it was no surprise that they were written by men.
This season was a perfect balance of weirdness and procedural for me. Kali Reis was incredible. Jodie Foster was pretty good too. This worked for me in a way that S2 and S3 simply did not. The world is a weird place and sometimes we don't get the tidy ending we think we deserve. I am content with the ending.
posted by Kitteh at 5:27 AM on February 20 [10 favorites]
Most of the recaps I came across were really nasty, very misogynistic in tone, and it was no surprise that they were written by men.
This season was a perfect balance of weirdness and procedural for me. Kali Reis was incredible. Jodie Foster was pretty good too. This worked for me in a way that S2 and S3 simply did not. The world is a weird place and sometimes we don't get the tidy ending we think we deserve. I am content with the ending.
posted by Kitteh at 5:27 AM on February 20 [10 favorites]
After seeing the finale, I definitely agree that this was better than at least S2. I think it's also worth re-examining S1 which had its own problems to decide if this show is overall that great. I think that the acting was better than the writing for sure, and that was exemplified in this episode. One main theme to this show is that people and events are imperfect and unclear, and I get the feeling that with this season (or maybe show?) specifically, that applies to the creation of a television show, too.
posted by destructive cactus at 6:37 AM on February 20 [4 favorites]
posted by destructive cactus at 6:37 AM on February 20 [4 favorites]
Metafilter is not a place I normally feel I'd say this, but it's kinda weird that across the Internet the shared narrative seems to be "given equal amounts of nonsense, we'll give the season with two charismatic white male leads a pass, but the one with two female leads, one Indigenous, will get tarred as ridiculous."
I’ve noticed it too, and it’s troubling. There is a contingent of misogynist/racist losers who brigade any media that doesn’t center straight white guys and it makes discussions of art anywhere else on the Internet almost impossible. I thought it was pretty tactless of Pizzolatto to trash-talk this season, too.
Metafilter is not a place where I’d normally say this either, but I’d like to think that my long history of criticizing missing characterization placesmy comments about this show’s missing characterization in context, especially when it comes to judging seasons of True Detective.
I still think the first three episodes are some of the best TV I’ve seen in years and I certainly don’t think the show is ridiculous — the second half just didn’t work for me but I’m glad it worked for so many others. I apologize if my characterization hobbyhorse turned into a high horse there.
posted by reclusive_thousandaire at 7:07 AM on February 20 [4 favorites]
I’ve noticed it too, and it’s troubling. There is a contingent of misogynist/racist losers who brigade any media that doesn’t center straight white guys and it makes discussions of art anywhere else on the Internet almost impossible. I thought it was pretty tactless of Pizzolatto to trash-talk this season, too.
Metafilter is not a place where I’d normally say this either, but I’d like to think that my long history of criticizing missing characterization places
I still think the first three episodes are some of the best TV I’ve seen in years and I certainly don’t think the show is ridiculous — the second half just didn’t work for me but I’m glad it worked for so many others. I apologize if my characterization hobbyhorse turned into a high horse there.
posted by reclusive_thousandaire at 7:07 AM on February 20 [4 favorites]
I agree with a lot of what's been said already, so I'll try to keep my comments to what I haven't seen already…
It was disappointing to me that this season was only 6 episodes, and I wonder why when the first 3 seasons were all 8. Is it a coincidence that this is the only season where the two leads were women? I especially felt this in the finale which seemed to shoehorn in a ridiculous amount and I'd like to see what could've been done with 2 more episodes to pace things better.
In addition to the aforementioned tongue (for which I think there could be an explanation I'm just missing), there were a lot of things that seemed wonky, especially in the final episode, like the "Twist and Shout" loop from Ferris Bueller inexplicably playing again, the magical power outage and storm and the nothingburger of ice cave peril. Also, the match cuts of father and son Prior breaking up the ice made Hank sharing that story in a prior episode just a bit too precious. I would've accepted it if Pete were the one to choose the disposal location, but since that was Navarro's recommendation, it took me out of it.
Also, True Detective has never been a whodunit, but I agree with the previous comments that having both the killers and the killed be functionally non-characters made the ending reveal flatter than it could've been. Even Annie K was not nearly as fleshed out as I would've liked. If we are meant to feel anything for Clark at the end, maybe show something of their relationship? (I think maybe we aren't supposed to feel anything for him though as the show seems to endorse the cops casually torturing him) Again, what could they have done with two more episodes? Maybe lose some of the scenes of Hank and show us more about Annie, the person who set this whole thing in motion?
Finally, while I absolutely agree that people obsessed with their work (even if that work is for "the greater good (echo)") could be driven to horrific actions in the right circumstances, I think in our actual world right now, making the climate scientists the bad guys and basically taking the heat off the fucking mine (whose head is a legit mustache-twirling villain), is kind of irresponsible. It makes for a shocking twist, but it smells to me like a studio note to make this play in red states more than anything.
posted by Cogito at 8:25 AM on February 20 [4 favorites]
It was disappointing to me that this season was only 6 episodes, and I wonder why when the first 3 seasons were all 8. Is it a coincidence that this is the only season where the two leads were women? I especially felt this in the finale which seemed to shoehorn in a ridiculous amount and I'd like to see what could've been done with 2 more episodes to pace things better.
In addition to the aforementioned tongue (for which I think there could be an explanation I'm just missing), there were a lot of things that seemed wonky, especially in the final episode, like the "Twist and Shout" loop from Ferris Bueller inexplicably playing again, the magical power outage and storm and the nothingburger of ice cave peril. Also, the match cuts of father and son Prior breaking up the ice made Hank sharing that story in a prior episode just a bit too precious. I would've accepted it if Pete were the one to choose the disposal location, but since that was Navarro's recommendation, it took me out of it.
Also, True Detective has never been a whodunit, but I agree with the previous comments that having both the killers and the killed be functionally non-characters made the ending reveal flatter than it could've been. Even Annie K was not nearly as fleshed out as I would've liked. If we are meant to feel anything for Clark at the end, maybe show something of their relationship? (I think maybe we aren't supposed to feel anything for him though as the show seems to endorse the cops casually torturing him) Again, what could they have done with two more episodes? Maybe lose some of the scenes of Hank and show us more about Annie, the person who set this whole thing in motion?
Finally, while I absolutely agree that people obsessed with their work (even if that work is for "the greater good (echo)") could be driven to horrific actions in the right circumstances, I think in our actual world right now, making the climate scientists the bad guys and basically taking the heat off the fucking mine (whose head is a legit mustache-twirling villain), is kind of irresponsible. It makes for a shocking twist, but it smells to me like a studio note to make this play in red states more than anything.
posted by Cogito at 8:25 AM on February 20 [4 favorites]
I also really liked this season and really liked the finale, but I think Lopez's approach seems to
I'm fuzzy on the timeline between the Wheeler flashback and the present day investigation but was the baby crying after Navarro shot Wheeler Leah Danvers?
That was the impression I got, that Danvers ended up adopting that baby. My wife totally didn't catch that though, so maybe I am reading too much into it.
posted by Rock Steady at 9:11 AM on February 20 [2 favorites]
I'm fuzzy on the timeline between the Wheeler flashback and the present day investigation but was the baby crying after Navarro shot Wheeler Leah Danvers?
That was the impression I got, that Danvers ended up adopting that baby. My wife totally didn't catch that though, so maybe I am reading too much into it.
posted by Rock Steady at 9:11 AM on February 20 [2 favorites]
Lady Gaga gave the best review of this season, IMO.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 9:12 AM on February 20 [1 favorite]
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 9:12 AM on February 20 [1 favorite]
Not a big fan of this season, mostly due to what I think was a severely underutilized cast and some baffling artistic choices. I've been pitching (to anyone who will listen) a season of True Detective focusing on the MMIW femicide pandemic since I first saw season 1 and I think this season was a noble attempt that ultimately didn't hit the mark, for me. N'thing upthread comments that I reallllllllly wish we had more characterization of the janitors. I really wish there was more of a push-pull between Navarro and Danvers as they struggled to reconcile their police duties with their support of the janitors' actions. I really wish there was some actual detective work instead of just torturing a suspect to death after he explains everything in the last episode. I wish we were shown something that justified why all the scientists simultaneously murdered Annie K with no hesitation or compunction. I wish that the corruption of the mine halting the investigation didn't serve as a convenient excuse to never explain what happened to the scientists.
Also the music... my gosh the music. When Clean Team Six broke into the station and that insane track started playing I thought FINALLY they're using a Tanya Tagaq track, she is so perfect for this! And then I looked it up afterwards and realized that she was the music supervisor for the entire season? Whatever they paid her to place all those slowed-down trailercore remixes of Beatles songs in the show, I hope it clears off the rest of the mortgage!
This is somewhat of a pointless criticism, because I'm talking about what could have been instead of what the season actually is, but I would've absolutely loved a season-1-style fakeout where the detectives discover halfway through the season that the janitors killed the scientists, and then they have to go rogue to cover it up and expose the mine's crimes. Instead we got basically four episodes of total filler that amounted to nothing, and then two cops deciding that a quintuple (I actually don't even know how many scientists there were) homicide is fine, actually. Why was Danvers virulently racist for the whole season if, when she's confronted with a vigilante indigenous group, she's just going to smile and accept it? That huge about face did not seem earned to me. Not a fan of Navarro's implied suicide either.
I think episode six should have been episode three, but, what can ya do. Overall this season was a glaring warning sign about the dangers of telling instead of showing.
posted by Cpt. The Mango at 9:55 AM on February 20 [6 favorites]
Also the music... my gosh the music. When Clean Team Six broke into the station and that insane track started playing I thought FINALLY they're using a Tanya Tagaq track, she is so perfect for this! And then I looked it up afterwards and realized that she was the music supervisor for the entire season? Whatever they paid her to place all those slowed-down trailercore remixes of Beatles songs in the show, I hope it clears off the rest of the mortgage!
This is somewhat of a pointless criticism, because I'm talking about what could have been instead of what the season actually is, but I would've absolutely loved a season-1-style fakeout where the detectives discover halfway through the season that the janitors killed the scientists, and then they have to go rogue to cover it up and expose the mine's crimes. Instead we got basically four episodes of total filler that amounted to nothing, and then two cops deciding that a quintuple (I actually don't even know how many scientists there were) homicide is fine, actually. Why was Danvers virulently racist for the whole season if, when she's confronted with a vigilante indigenous group, she's just going to smile and accept it? That huge about face did not seem earned to me. Not a fan of Navarro's implied suicide either.
I think episode six should have been episode three, but, what can ya do. Overall this season was a glaring warning sign about the dangers of telling instead of showing.
posted by Cpt. The Mango at 9:55 AM on February 20 [6 favorites]
Also yeah most of the discourse around this show has been repulsive. I recommend avoiding the TD subreddit at all costs.
posted by Cpt. The Mango at 10:01 AM on February 20 [2 favorites]
posted by Cpt. The Mango at 10:01 AM on February 20 [2 favorites]
the fake snow and fake cold got a little distracting at times, for a series where the elements/nature is so prominent.. when I say distracting, it just seemed like real cold is something the actors could not convey consistently, it's like they remembered once in a while but.. Danvers rescue in E6 was kind of the nadir of it all, for me
best part of the season was the strong leads, and I kind of liked the justice the women wrought. It made as much sense as any ending would've
posted by elkevelvet at 10:03 AM on February 20 [5 favorites]
best part of the season was the strong leads, and I kind of liked the justice the women wrought. It made as much sense as any ending would've
posted by elkevelvet at 10:03 AM on February 20 [5 favorites]
Season 1's ending felt like such a letdown where there were hints of some massive conspiracy, the occult, etc; but the ending just fizzled out to nothing. This season should serve as a reference to writers of how to deliver an ending that pays off for the audience's investment. They left enough mystery in there that allows for the supernatural elements, or you can accept a straightforward rational answer.
Speaking of letdowns: Reddit's TrueDetective subreddit has been taken over by toxic fans who want to do nothing but hate on the show, and the alternative /r/TDNightCountry was taken private by its original mod who seems to have decided to join the toxic fans. /r/TDNightCountry was a space where actual fans of the current series could have discussions about the show without the constant torrent of haters.
posted by interogative mood at 10:29 AM on February 20 [3 favorites]
Speaking of letdowns: Reddit's TrueDetective subreddit has been taken over by toxic fans who want to do nothing but hate on the show, and the alternative /r/TDNightCountry was taken private by its original mod who seems to have decided to join the toxic fans. /r/TDNightCountry was a space where actual fans of the current series could have discussions about the show without the constant torrent of haters.
posted by interogative mood at 10:29 AM on February 20 [3 favorites]
as the baby crying after Navarro shot Wheeler Leah Danvers?
That was the impression I got, that Danvers ended up adopting that baby.
Pretty sure that's impossible, as Leah is like at least 16, and I think the Wheeler case was, I'm pretty sure, post-Annie K, so only within the last like 3-5 years?
posted by Saxon Kane at 10:50 AM on February 20 [1 favorite]
That was the impression I got, that Danvers ended up adopting that baby.
Pretty sure that's impossible, as Leah is like at least 16, and I think the Wheeler case was, I'm pretty sure, post-Annie K, so only within the last like 3-5 years?
posted by Saxon Kane at 10:50 AM on February 20 [1 favorite]
I'm not clear on things either, but was the baby present when Navarro shot Wheeler = Holden? who then perished in an auto accident? and Danvers did adopt Holden, and the death of Holden contributed to hardening Danvers?
I'm not the most perceptive viewer
posted by elkevelvet at 11:05 AM on February 20 [1 favorite]
I'm not the most perceptive viewer
posted by elkevelvet at 11:05 AM on February 20 [1 favorite]
I think it's possible to say great acting, great underexplored topics and communities while also saying the plot didn't hold together and the more you think about it the less it holds.
They interviewed one of the scientists before he dies. Why doesn't he just tell them the cleaning ladies did it? Why doesn't the endlessly repeated video of Annie K actually match what happened in e6?
When the plot depends on the audience being forgetful, that doesn't speak to me of good plot writing. If the show was going to be about the characters then make it about the characters wnd don't try to shoehorn a convoluted plot into that.
That's why I view it as failed potential.
posted by kokaku at 11:06 AM on February 20 [9 favorites]
They interviewed one of the scientists before he dies. Why doesn't he just tell them the cleaning ladies did it? Why doesn't the endlessly repeated video of Annie K actually match what happened in e6?
When the plot depends on the audience being forgetful, that doesn't speak to me of good plot writing. If the show was going to be about the characters then make it about the characters wnd don't try to shoehorn a convoluted plot into that.
That's why I view it as failed potential.
posted by kokaku at 11:06 AM on February 20 [9 favorites]
I mostly thought it was fine, and I'll allow for a lot of implausible stuff (pollution levels helping melt ice cores, extremely unstable ice caves with buildings on top of them), but the everyone-stabbing-Annie thing kind of pulled me out of it. It would've been fine to make them co-consipirators in a cover-up. I think they could've used a few more episodes to flesh that out. I think we also deserved a solid answer on the tongue thing. The flash freezing and talking to the dead was enough ambiguous maybe-magic for one show.
I did like that it was a collective that got revenge for Annie K though. That part really worked, I thought.
posted by condour75 at 12:05 PM on February 20 [3 favorites]
I did like that it was a collective that got revenge for Annie K though. That part really worked, I thought.
posted by condour75 at 12:05 PM on February 20 [3 favorites]
When the plot depends on the audience being forgetful, that doesn't speak to me of good plot writing.
Yeah, I really wanted to like this, and I was excited when I first saw the trailer - but it was a bit of a let down, though I'd say the finale was the best episode out of the six. I enjoyed the twist of the indigenous women banding together to take down the scientists, which Clark's guilt makes him assume is the spirit of Annie come back to get them. I do think it would have been nice if at least one of them was more of a fleshed out character, but still, I agree that this part was the most satisfying.
Why doesn't the endlessly repeated video of Annie K actually match what happened in e6?
Yeah, this bugged me to - in that video it seems very quiet until the very end, and she's hiding out in the caves - why don't we see any of the scientific equipment in that video? Or hear the men coming?
Other bits that bugged me:
-Still not clear when Danvers entered Leah's life - their whole mother-daughter relationship never really made sense. At some points I thought this was a recent adoption given how disconnected they seemed (like yeah, I get that tension between teenagers and their parents is normal, but there was something clinical and cold between them that implied a shallow relationship), but then the last episode hints Danvers adopted her as a baby (Wheeler's kid), which makes their relationship make even less sense.
-Why does Clark go from nervously being in survival mode to deciding to kill himself?
-That it's never clarified what the scientists found that, in their minds, justified poisoning people. And yeah, their collaboration with the mine was a bit too silly to take seriously.
-Danvers and Navarro had such superhumanly strong bodies! How many middle aged people can fall that heavily in an ice cave and totally fine? And then Navarro quickly goes from absorbing blunt trauma to the head to beating up Clark...I didn't mind the level of supernatural elements, but the bits that weren't trying to be supernatural but were unbelievable distracted me.
posted by coffeecat at 12:27 PM on February 20 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I really wanted to like this, and I was excited when I first saw the trailer - but it was a bit of a let down, though I'd say the finale was the best episode out of the six. I enjoyed the twist of the indigenous women banding together to take down the scientists, which Clark's guilt makes him assume is the spirit of Annie come back to get them. I do think it would have been nice if at least one of them was more of a fleshed out character, but still, I agree that this part was the most satisfying.
Why doesn't the endlessly repeated video of Annie K actually match what happened in e6?
Yeah, this bugged me to - in that video it seems very quiet until the very end, and she's hiding out in the caves - why don't we see any of the scientific equipment in that video? Or hear the men coming?
Other bits that bugged me:
-Still not clear when Danvers entered Leah's life - their whole mother-daughter relationship never really made sense. At some points I thought this was a recent adoption given how disconnected they seemed (like yeah, I get that tension between teenagers and their parents is normal, but there was something clinical and cold between them that implied a shallow relationship), but then the last episode hints Danvers adopted her as a baby (Wheeler's kid), which makes their relationship make even less sense.
-Why does Clark go from nervously being in survival mode to deciding to kill himself?
-That it's never clarified what the scientists found that, in their minds, justified poisoning people. And yeah, their collaboration with the mine was a bit too silly to take seriously.
-Danvers and Navarro had such superhumanly strong bodies! How many middle aged people can fall that heavily in an ice cave and totally fine? And then Navarro quickly goes from absorbing blunt trauma to the head to beating up Clark...I didn't mind the level of supernatural elements, but the bits that weren't trying to be supernatural but were unbelievable distracted me.
posted by coffeecat at 12:27 PM on February 20 [2 favorites]
Why does Clark go from nervously being in survival mode to deciding to kill himself?
I'm more curious how his suicide somehow managed to involve being buried chest-deep in what seems like a very short period of time.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 12:41 PM on February 20 [2 favorites]
I'm more curious how his suicide somehow managed to involve being buried chest-deep in what seems like a very short period of time.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 12:41 PM on February 20 [2 favorites]
Given how weirdly misguided all of the musical cues have been this season (including in this very episode) I guess I can at least be grateful that they managed to avoid scoring the appearance of Danvers' child underneath the ice sheet to a slow, sad rendition of Ice, Ice Baby.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 12:44 PM on February 20 [17 favorites]
posted by Parasite Unseen at 12:44 PM on February 20 [17 favorites]
Better than S2, and the resolution made about as much sense as S3, so I'm not going to bother complaining about it. Or even S1 with the random cliché as the culprit.
Jodie Foster was great--I'd watch True Detective: Night Country: One More Night should she choose to make such a series.
S2 blatantly ripped off James Ellroy's LA Quartet, especially The Big Nowhere, yet I never saw anyone whining about how it wasn't really True Detective.
The needle drops were horrendous. The worst was the fifth episode, when the tension over Hank was immediately ruined by sad breathy vocals telling us that someone was dead, but they did manage to get one last mournful "Twist and Shout" in.
posted by betweenthebars at 1:12 PM on February 20 [5 favorites]
Jodie Foster was great--I'd watch True Detective: Night Country: One More Night should she choose to make such a series.
S2 blatantly ripped off James Ellroy's LA Quartet, especially The Big Nowhere, yet I never saw anyone whining about how it wasn't really True Detective.
The needle drops were horrendous. The worst was the fifth episode, when the tension over Hank was immediately ruined by sad breathy vocals telling us that someone was dead, but they did manage to get one last mournful "Twist and Shout" in.
posted by betweenthebars at 1:12 PM on February 20 [5 favorites]
There was TONS of whining about how S2 wasn't the same as S1. People were expecting it to be A) a similar quality season as S1; and B) a similar quality renaissance for a goofy middle-age actor, namely thinking Vince Vaughan would replicate Matthew McConaughey's sterling turn (spoiler alert: he did not).
Besides that, though, S2 stuck very close to the formula of S1. Shadowy corruption that is too big to be taken down by individuals, who (in)advertently destroy themselves in their quest for justice; a big 'ol shootout halfway through the season; dramatically fucked-up detectives who are loose cannons that don't play by the rules and shoot first and ask questions later etc., etc; what at first seems like an evil galactic mysticism eventually being boiled down to the in-group rituals of the pervert-class ultra-rich; and most importantly a unified tonal centre struck by the music supervision and camera direction. And! Most confusingly! There were tons of people who complained that it had nothing to do with S1 (you'll notice how much vitriol has been directed at S4 for its clunky tie-ins).
I still maintain that Night Country could've absolutely smacked had it not been shoe-horned into the "TD universe," whatever that means, and been given a little more leeway to play with the supernatural and horror elements that so clearly fascinated the showrunner, and had less bizarre and meaningless quotes and direct references to S1. It's like if a young and upcoming pop star released an album called Thriller 2. Clearly a marketing angle to get maximum viewership cruising on S1 goodwill from over a decade ago, but ultimately detrimental to the value that a totally unique team could've brought to their own story. I also think TDNC will do a lot better on a binge watch (which is also the case for every previous TD season). To be honest, no TD season has ever really stuck the landing in my opinion, and TNDC's uptick in quality for the last episode is a slightly pleasant surprise.
posted by Cpt. The Mango at 1:29 PM on February 20 [4 favorites]
Besides that, though, S2 stuck very close to the formula of S1. Shadowy corruption that is too big to be taken down by individuals, who (in)advertently destroy themselves in their quest for justice; a big 'ol shootout halfway through the season; dramatically fucked-up detectives who are loose cannons that don't play by the rules and shoot first and ask questions later etc., etc; what at first seems like an evil galactic mysticism eventually being boiled down to the in-group rituals of the pervert-class ultra-rich; and most importantly a unified tonal centre struck by the music supervision and camera direction. And! Most confusingly! There were tons of people who complained that it had nothing to do with S1 (you'll notice how much vitriol has been directed at S4 for its clunky tie-ins).
I still maintain that Night Country could've absolutely smacked had it not been shoe-horned into the "TD universe," whatever that means, and been given a little more leeway to play with the supernatural and horror elements that so clearly fascinated the showrunner, and had less bizarre and meaningless quotes and direct references to S1. It's like if a young and upcoming pop star released an album called Thriller 2. Clearly a marketing angle to get maximum viewership cruising on S1 goodwill from over a decade ago, but ultimately detrimental to the value that a totally unique team could've brought to their own story. I also think TDNC will do a lot better on a binge watch (which is also the case for every previous TD season). To be honest, no TD season has ever really stuck the landing in my opinion, and TNDC's uptick in quality for the last episode is a slightly pleasant surprise.
posted by Cpt. The Mango at 1:29 PM on February 20 [4 favorites]
Danvers was married to an indigenous man who had a Leah by a prior marriage. He and Danvers had a son together. Leah’s biological mother is either dead or vanished. Danvers is the only parent she has left. Danvers’ husband(Leah’s dad) and son were killed by a drunk driver.
After the accident her already abrasive personality hardened (according to this Slate interview with the series runner Issa Lopez). This was the reason she was exiled to Ennis. The Wheeler incident happened after those events.
The fate of the Wheeler’s baby is left unresolved.
posted by interogative mood at 1:54 PM on February 20 [15 favorites]
After the accident her already abrasive personality hardened (according to this Slate interview with the series runner Issa Lopez). This was the reason she was exiled to Ennis. The Wheeler incident happened after those events.
The fate of the Wheeler’s baby is left unresolved.
posted by interogative mood at 1:54 PM on February 20 [15 favorites]
Perhaps the Wheeler baby grew up to be the child we saw crossing the street who stops to menacingly point at Navarro? (Because...I dunno...maybe a ghost told the kid that Navarro was the person who'd killed their father)
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:13 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:13 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
I do like everything I've heard from Issa Lopez herself, especially this podcast from The Watch right after episode one and her post-finale interview on Vulture, in which she explains her process for coming up with the two lead characters:
You want your detectives to be brilliant, but they cannot be brilliant in the same manner that another 100 detectives have been brilliant. You have to create their own thing. Being a massive fan of Sherlock Holmes in my childhood and having seen every noir movie and detective show you can imagine, I had this challenge: What is the superpower of my detective? And man, it’s difficult. I knew Navarro’s was going to be a talent to communicate with people, a talent to understand the knitting of the community, and her gut instinct. But Danvers was hard. I didn’t want to do a wall with red string. So she puts every visual cue in front of her in a very orderly grid and starts making connections and creates chaos around her by mixing and mixing and mixing in order to find that little connection, this and this. That does a lot for the visual technique in the series.
posted by reclusive_thousandaire at 2:16 PM on February 20 [2 favorites]
You want your detectives to be brilliant, but they cannot be brilliant in the same manner that another 100 detectives have been brilliant. You have to create their own thing. Being a massive fan of Sherlock Holmes in my childhood and having seen every noir movie and detective show you can imagine, I had this challenge: What is the superpower of my detective? And man, it’s difficult. I knew Navarro’s was going to be a talent to communicate with people, a talent to understand the knitting of the community, and her gut instinct. But Danvers was hard. I didn’t want to do a wall with red string. So she puts every visual cue in front of her in a very orderly grid and starts making connections and creates chaos around her by mixing and mixing and mixing in order to find that little connection, this and this. That does a lot for the visual technique in the series.
posted by reclusive_thousandaire at 2:16 PM on February 20 [2 favorites]
thanks, interogative mood
not sure what percentage of the blame to place on my careless observer tendencies vs. the show's writing, but your brief explanation clears up a few things for me
posted by elkevelvet at 2:17 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
not sure what percentage of the blame to place on my careless observer tendencies vs. the show's writing, but your brief explanation clears up a few things for me
posted by elkevelvet at 2:17 PM on February 20 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I don't think Night Country was great, and I'm not even sure that I think it was good, but it was miles better than S2.
S2 was so bad that I departed the series and did not come back for S3. I jumped into Night Country because I liked the cast and the premise was intriguing.
I think they stuck the landing in the resolution of the mystery but man it was an ugly, muddled mess of a journey to get to that point.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 2:20 PM on February 20 [2 favorites]
S2 was so bad that I departed the series and did not come back for S3. I jumped into Night Country because I liked the cast and the premise was intriguing.
I think they stuck the landing in the resolution of the mystery but man it was an ugly, muddled mess of a journey to get to that point.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 2:20 PM on February 20 [2 favorites]
Danvers and Navarro had such superhumanly strong bodies! How many middle aged people can fall that heavily in an ice cave and totally fine?
TV and movies never get the physical injury of their action sequences right. It comes across as nitpicking to complain about it only for this show.
posted by interogative mood at 3:27 PM on February 20 [5 favorites]
TV and movies never get the physical injury of their action sequences right. It comes across as nitpicking to complain about it only for this show.
posted by interogative mood at 3:27 PM on February 20 [5 favorites]
It annoyed me more that they went into the ice caves with no rope, no gear, no way to communicate outside. If not for the magical cave lab, they'd be dead.
posted by kokaku at 7:13 PM on February 20 [16 favorites]
posted by kokaku at 7:13 PM on February 20 [16 favorites]
Yeah NGL that did bug me. Also the whole hypothermia treatment was clearly written by someone who didn’t do any research. First of all you don’t ever offer someone with hypothermia a shot. Alcohol lowers the body temperature. Second why build a fire there are two trucks with gas and working heaters right there. Third wrapping them up in coat and blankets next to the fire is not helping. You need to be in the blankets with them, otherwise you are not making them warmer, and you are insulating them from the heat source.
posted by interogative mood at 10:02 AM on February 21 [7 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 10:02 AM on February 21 [7 favorites]
SubredditDrama has a post up.
“Baby’s first gamergate lmao” time is a flat circle as multiple subs meet on the battlefield of the next culture war: True Detective Season 4
posted by interogative mood at 11:03 AM on February 21 [1 favorite]
“Baby’s first gamergate lmao” time is a flat circle as multiple subs meet on the battlefield of the next culture war: True Detective Season 4
posted by interogative mood at 11:03 AM on February 21 [1 favorite]
They interviewed one of the scientists before he dies. Why doesn't he just tell them the cleaning ladies did it? Why doesn't the endlessly repeated video of Annie K actually match what happened in e6?
Because he was holding down the hatch to the ice caves and never saw them. He told Danvers and Navarro that he thought it was Annie.
It annoyed me more that they went into the ice caves with no rope, no gear, no way to communicate outside.
I was also mad at this.
Second why build a fire there are two trucks with gas and working heaters right there.
Exactly. Strip Danvers naked and get in the truck with her and a bunch of blankets.
Anyway, still better than Season 1. I think many people have forgotten what a giant mess that season was with it's bad plotting and dorm-room philosophy, and how exactly zero female characters had anything more than the most cursory backstory at best. I have always liked how the landscape was treated as deeply integral to all the TD series, but Pizzolatto could not plot his way out of a paper bag.
posted by oneirodynia at 11:12 AM on February 21 [10 favorites]
Because he was holding down the hatch to the ice caves and never saw them. He told Danvers and Navarro that he thought it was Annie.
It annoyed me more that they went into the ice caves with no rope, no gear, no way to communicate outside.
I was also mad at this.
Second why build a fire there are two trucks with gas and working heaters right there.
Exactly. Strip Danvers naked and get in the truck with her and a bunch of blankets.
Anyway, still better than Season 1. I think many people have forgotten what a giant mess that season was with it's bad plotting and dorm-room philosophy, and how exactly zero female characters had anything more than the most cursory backstory at best. I have always liked how the landscape was treated as deeply integral to all the TD series, but Pizzolatto could not plot his way out of a paper bag.
posted by oneirodynia at 11:12 AM on February 21 [10 favorites]
Because he was holding down the hatch to the ice caves and never saw them. He told Danvers and Navarro that he thought it was Annie.
I don't want to speak for kokaku but I assumed they meant the *other* scientist - the one that has frostbite and needs to be put into a medically induced coma and then wakes up just to spout some creepy nonsense and then die.
posted by kbanas at 1:07 PM on February 21 [5 favorites]
I don't want to speak for kokaku but I assumed they meant the *other* scientist - the one that has frostbite and needs to be put into a medically induced coma and then wakes up just to spout some creepy nonsense and then die.
posted by kbanas at 1:07 PM on February 21 [5 favorites]
There are two scenes with the "conscious Dr Lund". The first one he talks with Danvers and she asks what happens. He is clearly afraid and confused and says "she came for us in the dark" but that might have been "they came for us in the dark." He might not fully remember what happened since he was pretty far gone at that point.
In the second scene where he sat up and was talking to Navarro I think he was already dead and it was just one of her visions. He says, "Hey there, Evangeline. Your mother says hello. She’s waiting for you.” -- that seems like a clue that this is a vision, not actual reality. Navarro is snapped back to reality when he codes and the alarms go off.
posted by interogative mood at 1:52 PM on February 21 [3 favorites]
In the second scene where he sat up and was talking to Navarro I think he was already dead and it was just one of her visions. He says, "Hey there, Evangeline. Your mother says hello. She’s waiting for you.” -- that seems like a clue that this is a vision, not actual reality. Navarro is snapped back to reality when he codes and the alarms go off.
posted by interogative mood at 1:52 PM on February 21 [3 favorites]
I think S4 was a mess in many ways but the finale tied up most of the loose ends. The acting and the atmosphere really elevate it. Ratings for the finale are insane, 12 million views and counting. My guess is HBO is going to ask for S5 from Issa Lopez.
posted by Ber at 2:30 PM on February 21 [1 favorite]
posted by Ber at 2:30 PM on February 21 [1 favorite]
Third wrapping them up in coat and blankets next to the fire is not helping. You need to be in the blankets with them, otherwise you are not making them warmer, and you are insulating them from the heat source.
I shouted pretty much this at the tv. It’s hypothermia 101.
posted by eekernohan at 7:40 PM on February 21 [6 favorites]
I shouted pretty much this at the tv. It’s hypothermia 101.
posted by eekernohan at 7:40 PM on February 21 [6 favorites]
We *loved* the indigenous women's revenge reveal. Absolutely A+ - we gasped with enjoyment - for all the themic and historical reasons described above.
Rose's character! Her ultracompetence, being a soigneé fuckin' wolf-gutter and corpse disposer....was awesome. . Her ending monolog; one of the few satisfying ones that we heard.
I loved, loved, loved the still, quiet conversations between Navarro and Qavik. More of this please....
The cinematography and the use of the landscape as character; always great.
That doesn't fuckin' excuse some of the execrable expository dialog. Much less, the absolutely cringeworthy - like take you out of the story slap you in the face with a wet fish "this is how you should feel NOW", POOCHIE level music decisions.
I completely agree with reclusive_thousandaire's comments about the dozen plot and characterization holes.
This was a real mixed bag for me, some absolute caviar and some absolute turds.
posted by lalochezia at 8:18 PM on February 21 [7 favorites]
Rose's character! Her ultracompetence, being a soigneé fuckin' wolf-gutter and corpse disposer....was awesome. . Her ending monolog; one of the few satisfying ones that we heard.
I loved, loved, loved the still, quiet conversations between Navarro and Qavik. More of this please....
The cinematography and the use of the landscape as character; always great.
That doesn't fuckin' excuse some of the execrable expository dialog. Much less, the absolutely cringeworthy - like take you out of the story slap you in the face with a wet fish "this is how you should feel NOW", POOCHIE level music decisions.
I completely agree with reclusive_thousandaire's comments about the dozen plot and characterization holes.
This was a real mixed bag for me, some absolute caviar and some absolute turds.
posted by lalochezia at 8:18 PM on February 21 [7 favorites]
this show was great and the music was great and i mean that.
this has been your bombastic lowercase pronouncement for the series.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 9:23 PM on February 21 [8 favorites]
this has been your bombastic lowercase pronouncement for the series.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 9:23 PM on February 21 [8 favorites]
Ber called it: True Detective shall return, with Issa Lopez once again at the helm.
While the second half of this season didn't work for me, it's still the second-best season, and Lopez hit some incredible highs in the first half. I'm excited to see what she does with another at-bat.
posted by reclusive_thousandaire at 2:10 PM on February 22 [1 favorite]
While the second half of this season didn't work for me, it's still the second-best season, and Lopez hit some incredible highs in the first half. I'm excited to see what she does with another at-bat.
posted by reclusive_thousandaire at 2:10 PM on February 22 [1 favorite]
was the baby crying after Navarro shot Wheeler Leah Danvers? I got to the end of the show still confused on their dynamic. Adopted? Stepdaughter? Who was the dad?
Leah was the daughter of Danver's partner after she split with Prior. I don't recall that that fellow was ever named explicitly, but he died in the accident that killed Holden and Danvers somewhat informally adopted Leah - it's mentioned in the first episode while the two of them are butting heads.
The twist-and-shout motif definitely seems tied to the accident, altho it feels like there's a cut scene of the song actually playing before the crash. The fact that we get a cringingly-overdone morose and maudlin cover of T'n'S right as Danvers is becoming receptive to the news of Holden being a ghost really drives it home.
posted by FatherDagon at 4:12 PM on February 22 [2 favorites]
Leah was the daughter of Danver's partner after she split with Prior. I don't recall that that fellow was ever named explicitly, but he died in the accident that killed Holden and Danvers somewhat informally adopted Leah - it's mentioned in the first episode while the two of them are butting heads.
The twist-and-shout motif definitely seems tied to the accident, altho it feels like there's a cut scene of the song actually playing before the crash. The fact that we get a cringingly-overdone morose and maudlin cover of T'n'S right as Danvers is becoming receptive to the news of Holden being a ghost really drives it home.
posted by FatherDagon at 4:12 PM on February 22 [2 favorites]
I agree with the person above who says (paraphrasing) great acting, not so great writing. I didn't necessarily hate that it was the local women who killed the men, but it felt like an enormous letdown, hugely anticlimactic. There was just nothing to earn the ending. All that tension just evaporated into.... nothing? Just like the storm clears up and gee, there's the aurora borealis! Let's all hold hands! The tooth Prior stuck in his pocket, I was halfway expecting it to turn up someplace and get him incriminated.
I can't speak to how this compares to prior seasons, because it's been too long and honestly, most of it I've forgotten--but I do seem to recall some good bits.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 6:28 PM on February 23
I can't speak to how this compares to prior seasons, because it's been too long and honestly, most of it I've forgotten--but I do seem to recall some good bits.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 6:28 PM on February 23
So much potential, so little delivery.
For me, this is pretty much the tagline for True Detective. I have not really liked any of the seasons, including 1. I liked a bit of s3 simply because I'm a huge David Milch fan and liked what I saw of him in it.
My biggest complaint about each season is the same: I simply do not care about any of these people. Not the protagonists, not the antagonists, and not the victims, because no one is fleshed out.
I'll agree with the poster above who said this would have benefited from being removed from the True Detective universe, but to be honest I don't know if they went to Lopez and asked for this or if she came to them with a cop series and they decided to shoehorn it into TD.
posted by dobbs at 6:11 AM on February 26 [1 favorite]
For me, this is pretty much the tagline for True Detective. I have not really liked any of the seasons, including 1. I liked a bit of s3 simply because I'm a huge David Milch fan and liked what I saw of him in it.
My biggest complaint about each season is the same: I simply do not care about any of these people. Not the protagonists, not the antagonists, and not the victims, because no one is fleshed out.
I'll agree with the poster above who said this would have benefited from being removed from the True Detective universe, but to be honest I don't know if they went to Lopez and asked for this or if she came to them with a cop series and they decided to shoehorn it into TD.
posted by dobbs at 6:11 AM on February 26 [1 favorite]
I went to watch the last episode last night, because i had a busy week last week and now it's behind a paywall. what up with that?
posted by OHenryPacey at 7:01 AM on February 26
posted by OHenryPacey at 7:01 AM on February 26
Why did I leave the episode thinking that The Women had cut out Annie's tongue "for reasons" and put it in the station as a breadcrumb for the police?
posted by frecklefaerie at 12:25 PM on February 28
posted by frecklefaerie at 12:25 PM on February 28
I don't know if they went to Lopez and asked for this or if she came to them with a cop series and they decided to shoehorn it into TD.
A little of both? In interviews, Lopez has said she had some initial ideas and concepts of this series kicking around for a while, and when HBO asked if she would be interested in working on True Detective, she decided it was the right place to develop those ideas.
posted by Rock Steady at 10:56 AM on March 1 [1 favorite]
A little of both? In interviews, Lopez has said she had some initial ideas and concepts of this series kicking around for a while, and when HBO asked if she would be interested in working on True Detective, she decided it was the right place to develop those ideas.
posted by Rock Steady at 10:56 AM on March 1 [1 favorite]
Eh, the writing let me down. But this season was a success. What True Detective seems best at is a Big Mood. And this definitely delivered. Issa López has rescued the franchise. Everyone loved season 1, hated season 2, didn't even talk about season 3. But season 4 had a huge amount of buzz and now we have a season 5 to look forward to. Could have gone other ways.
I particularly appreciated the deft storytelling about indigenous women. It's a bit unsatisfying to learn the murderers are actually a group of women we know almost nothing about. But then the whole point of those women is that no one knew nothing about them, the invisible cleaning ladies. But they are visible throughout the show. I remarked back for episode 3 how strong the society of women was, the scenes of the birthing and the mourning. Turns out that was setting the hook for the conclusion.
Navarro's character does all the heavy lifting for clear storytelling about indigenous women and Kali Reis has the power to make it work. Oddly she manages to upstage Jodie Foster, of all people, I think because of the writing. (Poor Danvers, she spent about 3 minutes this last episode stumbling around the dark ice yelling "Navarro" over and over again.)
Fiona Shaw was delicious. I love the way she casually knows to cut open a man's lungs so that his body sinks. A whole character background implied in that one line. I feel like I've seen her everywhere but when I look up her CV all I know her from is Andor. Finn Bennett as young officer Prior was also very good and I think his character is an important anchor as the one white guy who's worth a damn.
What overwrought intensely local American setting will be the Big Mood for season 5? Maybe a period piece, the last of the steamboat years on the Mississippi.
posted by Nelson at 7:27 AM on March 2 [3 favorites]
I particularly appreciated the deft storytelling about indigenous women. It's a bit unsatisfying to learn the murderers are actually a group of women we know almost nothing about. But then the whole point of those women is that no one knew nothing about them, the invisible cleaning ladies. But they are visible throughout the show. I remarked back for episode 3 how strong the society of women was, the scenes of the birthing and the mourning. Turns out that was setting the hook for the conclusion.
Navarro's character does all the heavy lifting for clear storytelling about indigenous women and Kali Reis has the power to make it work. Oddly she manages to upstage Jodie Foster, of all people, I think because of the writing. (Poor Danvers, she spent about 3 minutes this last episode stumbling around the dark ice yelling "Navarro" over and over again.)
Fiona Shaw was delicious. I love the way she casually knows to cut open a man's lungs so that his body sinks. A whole character background implied in that one line. I feel like I've seen her everywhere but when I look up her CV all I know her from is Andor. Finn Bennett as young officer Prior was also very good and I think his character is an important anchor as the one white guy who's worth a damn.
What overwrought intensely local American setting will be the Big Mood for season 5? Maybe a period piece, the last of the steamboat years on the Mississippi.
posted by Nelson at 7:27 AM on March 2 [3 favorites]
I do think "one dip under the ice" is a strange way to frame a near-death-experience. We see Danvers struggle to come back to the surface, and give up. She's already sinking down again, when Navarro saves her in the last minute. Danvers almost died that moment. That's going to put some things in perspective.
Yeah, and on top of that -- and even more directly to the point -- she only crashes her way under the ice in the first place because she sees her dead child calling for help down there. I'm definitely not saying everything about this series was pristine, but I think this bit was handled fine.
posted by nobody at 10:13 PM on March 2 [1 favorite]
Yeah, and on top of that -- and even more directly to the point -- she only crashes her way under the ice in the first place because she sees her dead child calling for help down there. I'm definitely not saying everything about this series was pristine, but I think this bit was handled fine.
posted by nobody at 10:13 PM on March 2 [1 favorite]
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The Ringer recap: Who Done It? Breaking Down the Finale of ‘True Detective: Night Country’
Positive notes: Foster & Reis can act. It's not entirely supernatural. Many loose ends wrapped up. Reis learns her "true" name. The Kid learns his lesson. We find out who shot Wheeler. Also who killed Annie. Really. And Qavvik gets his Spongebob toothbrush back.
Negative?: it's ... totally, unashamedly bonkers. Time is a flat circle.
posted by chavenet at 4:13 PM on February 19 [6 favorites]