Shogun: Tomorrow Is Tomorrow Show Only
March 5, 2024 6:07 AM - Season 1, Episode 3 - Subscribe
After Blackthorne survives a brazen assassination attempt, Toranaga realizes he must ferry his allies out of Osaka or risk certain defeat.
I noticed during the credits that we have one Kimono Specialist, one Kimono Coordinator, one Kimono Advisor, one Assistant Kimono Advisor, one Kimono Design Consultant, and 7 Kimono Technicians listed.
I noticed during the credits that we have one Kimono Specialist, one Kimono Coordinator, one Kimono Advisor, one Assistant Kimono Advisor, one Kimono Design Consultant, and 7 Kimono Technicians listed.
Mod note: SHOW ONLY tag added at user request.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 6:19 AM on March 5
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 6:19 AM on March 5
Between The Thorn Birds and Shōgun, Richard Chamberlain had a lock on a lot of moms.
posted by cocoagirl at 3:27 PM on March 5 [3 favorites]
posted by cocoagirl at 3:27 PM on March 5 [3 favorites]
I can’t get over how much Cosmo Jarvis sounds so much like Richard Burton. It’s pretty uncanny.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:01 PM on March 5 [4 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 5:01 PM on March 5 [4 favorites]
I was disappointed that this episode felt more like we were getting a white savior narrative than the previous two. I did read the book about 30 years ago and the plot points seemed familiar, so I understand that the show may just be following the book. However, the fanfare discussion of the last two episodes talked about how the show was reducing the fish-out-of-water narrative and expanding on the political intrigue parts, and I think that this episode would have been better if the showrunners continued to take creative liberties. We're told that Toranaga is a savvy planner and manipulator, well-known for his trickery, but Blackthorne has to save him twice during during the escape attempt. I think once would have been enough to establish Blackthorne's character. And then Blackthorne gets to defy the odds again with his own daring escape. In all three cases, Blackthorne is able to act because he is a risk-taking outside-the-box thinker, unlike the Japanese. If I'm being generous, it gave me the impression of Blackthorne as a wish-fulfillment character. Less generously it felt like the show was leaning into the orientalist tropes in the source material.
posted by jomato at 5:32 PM on March 5 [4 favorites]
posted by jomato at 5:32 PM on March 5 [4 favorites]
> We're told that Toranaga is a savvy planner and manipulator, well-known for his trickery, but Blackthorne has to save him twice during during the escape attempt.
I think they're struggling with how to make it plausible that Toranaga would accept Anjin as an advisor and also a friend, given that it seems like the smartest thing would be to throw him to the Jesuits to forge an alliance and save his head, so they had to make our World's First English Weeaboo into a kind of heroic character. But yeah, it seemed excessive.
posted by dis_integration at 6:43 AM on March 6 [3 favorites]
I think they're struggling with how to make it plausible that Toranaga would accept Anjin as an advisor and also a friend, given that it seems like the smartest thing would be to throw him to the Jesuits to forge an alliance and save his head, so they had to make our World's First English Weeaboo into a kind of heroic character. But yeah, it seemed excessive.
posted by dis_integration at 6:43 AM on March 6 [3 favorites]
This episode does absolutely lean more into Anjin taking actions that benefit or even save Toranaga, but I'm willing to extend it the benefit of the doubt thus far. Blackthorne was obviously not going to be marginalized for the entire narrative -- his relationship with Toranaga *is* the story. I don't -- currently -- see Anjin's heroics as diminishing the other characters.
What gives me hope about this, other than the high quality of the writing thus far, is the *way* Blackthorne saves Toranaga.
My thought, and we will see if this bears out, is that Blackthorne's alienness *is* his advantage. Not in the Eurocentric/Orientalist mode of the original books, hopefully, but rather *culturally*. Anjin is not required, or even expected, to hew to the complex honor society of feudal Japan. He can weaponize his ability to violate social norms, as he did during the scene with the palanquin.
The scene with the ships, I think, suggests the same thing. There is a *reason* we see the translator's husband prosaically get left behind to die in honor and glory. Because Blackthorne is about to be put in the *exact* same situation but, because he is not bound by the expectations of Bushido, he can take reckless actions that a "true" samurai could never allow themselves. (Well, and also they killed him to free up his translator for romance later.)
I like to think we are building towards a story where two very different people learn from each others differences instead of one where big-dicked gaijin shows these backwards Japanese how things should be done. Time will tell, but I see reason to optimistic.
I think Toranaga -- a master at playing within the legalist confines of bushido culture -- is enough of a pragmatist that he can see the value in someone who can break those rules at will.
posted by absalom at 6:49 AM on March 6 [10 favorites]
What gives me hope about this, other than the high quality of the writing thus far, is the *way* Blackthorne saves Toranaga.
My thought, and we will see if this bears out, is that Blackthorne's alienness *is* his advantage. Not in the Eurocentric/Orientalist mode of the original books, hopefully, but rather *culturally*. Anjin is not required, or even expected, to hew to the complex honor society of feudal Japan. He can weaponize his ability to violate social norms, as he did during the scene with the palanquin.
The scene with the ships, I think, suggests the same thing. There is a *reason* we see the translator's husband prosaically get left behind to die in honor and glory. Because Blackthorne is about to be put in the *exact* same situation but, because he is not bound by the expectations of Bushido, he can take reckless actions that a "true" samurai could never allow themselves. (Well, and also they killed him to free up his translator for romance later.)
I like to think we are building towards a story where two very different people learn from each others differences instead of one where big-dicked gaijin shows these backwards Japanese how things should be done. Time will tell, but I see reason to optimistic.
I think Toranaga -- a master at playing within the legalist confines of bushido culture -- is enough of a pragmatist that he can see the value in someone who can break those rules at will.
posted by absalom at 6:49 AM on March 6 [10 favorites]
I think the episode's semi-comic ending was also an attempt to finesse the problem raised by the source material: yes, Toranaga is elevating Blackthorne to a position of authority, but he's also making a point about what he expects in terms of immediate obedience. I agree that this one undercut the series' prior presentation of Blackthorne, though.
posted by thomas j wise at 6:50 AM on March 6 [1 favorite]
posted by thomas j wise at 6:50 AM on March 6 [1 favorite]
Let me preface by saying that this didn't ruin the show for me, and I still plan to watch the whole series. That said, I thought of a couple other Blackthorne moments to add to the list: he immediately spots the swap when Toranaga switches places with the woman, and he is shown to be the first person to spot the ambush by soldiers who are posing as fishermen. Taken together with his stopping the palanquin search, having the idea to negotiate passage with the Black Ship, and successfully executing his own high-risk escape attempt, it just combines to give the impression that the English guy is the smartest and the bravest and the bestest. I understand the he is supposed to be an exceptional person in is own right, but it felt like they were laying it on a little thick.
Here are some things I can think of that I might have liked more, but I'm not a writer so maybe there are reasons why these changes wouldn't have worked. First, I think Toranaga should have had a better plan that was only put at risk by something improbable or unpredictable happening. Being searched a second time on the way to the wharf seems too likely and apparently would have ended the whole adventure. It undermines the image of Toranaga as a cunning survivor. Blackthorne didn't have to spot the swap himself. Maybe he sees something but doesn't understand what happened until he notices Mariko's reaction to the search and then puts it together. I would keep the part where Blackthorne stops the search, because as absolom says it shows the way in which Blackthorne can use his outsider status to do things that Japanese characters can't. Blackthorne didn't have to be the first person to spot the ambush at sea. Blackthorne didn't have to be the person who came up with the idea of negotiating with the Black Ship. I would keep the boat race at the end.
posted by jomato at 10:00 AM on March 6 [1 favorite]
Here are some things I can think of that I might have liked more, but I'm not a writer so maybe there are reasons why these changes wouldn't have worked. First, I think Toranaga should have had a better plan that was only put at risk by something improbable or unpredictable happening. Being searched a second time on the way to the wharf seems too likely and apparently would have ended the whole adventure. It undermines the image of Toranaga as a cunning survivor. Blackthorne didn't have to spot the swap himself. Maybe he sees something but doesn't understand what happened until he notices Mariko's reaction to the search and then puts it together. I would keep the part where Blackthorne stops the search, because as absolom says it shows the way in which Blackthorne can use his outsider status to do things that Japanese characters can't. Blackthorne didn't have to be the first person to spot the ambush at sea. Blackthorne didn't have to be the person who came up with the idea of negotiating with the Black Ship. I would keep the boat race at the end.
posted by jomato at 10:00 AM on March 6 [1 favorite]
Blackthorne didn't have to be the first person to spot the ambush at sea. Blackthorne didn't have to be the person who came up with the idea of negotiating with the Black Ship.
I agree with your idea of Mariko cluing him in to the swap, but this is 100% in line with him being a privateer. It makes sense that he sees the blockade before the landsmen, and it makes sense that he would try and negotiate his way out of it (considering he is on a ship with no weaponry). He's basically been forcibly removed from a place that he genuinely had no power or clue, to a place where he's a viking (in nearly a literal sense). As an avid multiple-time reader of the Master and Commander series, this blossoming once he's back in his element seems absolutely correct.
posted by oneirodynia at 2:24 PM on March 6 [4 favorites]
I agree with your idea of Mariko cluing him in to the swap, but this is 100% in line with him being a privateer. It makes sense that he sees the blockade before the landsmen, and it makes sense that he would try and negotiate his way out of it (considering he is on a ship with no weaponry). He's basically been forcibly removed from a place that he genuinely had no power or clue, to a place where he's a viking (in nearly a literal sense). As an avid multiple-time reader of the Master and Commander series, this blossoming once he's back in his element seems absolutely correct.
posted by oneirodynia at 2:24 PM on March 6 [4 favorites]
It makes sense that he sees the blockade before the landsmen...
Maybe. But they aren’t exactly landsmen. The Japanese have large sailing ships. In this era they invaded Korea, for instance, which requires lots of sailing. And, to be fair, a blockade of fishing boats lit with torches isn’t exactly a hard thing to spot.
I guess, if only he did “heroic” things a bit less arrogantly loud-ass shouty, he would come across a whole lot more sympathetic. At this point, I honestly wish he’d catch an arrow through the head so we could get on with the more captivating intrigue.
Did anyone else think they were making Blackthorne dive repeatedly into the water in order to surreptitiously bathe him?
posted by Thorzdad at 2:45 PM on March 6 [2 favorites]
Maybe. But they aren’t exactly landsmen. The Japanese have large sailing ships. In this era they invaded Korea, for instance, which requires lots of sailing. And, to be fair, a blockade of fishing boats lit with torches isn’t exactly a hard thing to spot.
I guess, if only he did “heroic” things a bit less arrogantly loud-ass shouty, he would come across a whole lot more sympathetic. At this point, I honestly wish he’d catch an arrow through the head so we could get on with the more captivating intrigue.
Did anyone else think they were making Blackthorne dive repeatedly into the water in order to surreptitiously bathe him?
posted by Thorzdad at 2:45 PM on March 6 [2 favorites]
this is 100% in line with him being a privateerIt's not that I think any of these individual scenes didn't make sense for the character, just the Mary Sue-ish feeling they gave me when taken all together. I was just identifying the scenes where the narrative logic didn't require Blackthorne to be the driving force. I'm also not suggesting that a rewrite that adopted all those changes would be perfect or even good; probably a deeper rewrite would be needed to strike the right balance between (1) Blackthorne is smart, (2) Toranaga and his closest advisors are also smart, and (3) Blackthorne's actions impress Toranaga enough to set up the subsequent plot events.
posted by jomato at 3:16 PM on March 6 [1 favorite]
Multiple characters in the show remarked that when Toranaga went to Osaka he was effectively going to his death. It seems like the show is setting up to show that Toranaga has outplanned and outsmarted Ishido and his allies. Instead, Toranaga's plan kind of sucks and was nearly thwarted immediately if not for Blackthorne.
posted by jomato at 3:30 PM on March 6 [3 favorites]
Did anyone else think they were making Blackthorne dive repeatedly into the water in order to surreptitiously bathe him?No, but that's hilarious.
posted by jomato at 3:30 PM on March 6 [3 favorites]
I finally put my finger on why the actor playing Blackthorne bugs me: it feels like he's doing his best James Purefoy impersonation but is totally a dollar store budget young James Purefoy.
posted by TwoStride at 4:52 PM on March 6
posted by TwoStride at 4:52 PM on March 6
I think Toranaga -- a master at playing within the legalist confines of bushido culture -- is enough of a pragmatist that he can see the value in someone who can break those rules at will.
There has been pushback about the historical authenticity of bushido.
And bushido definitely didn't exist as a cultural value in Japan during the time that the show is depicting- the tail end of the Sengoku Jidai, a chaotic era where so many people were breaking the rules for nearly a century and a half.
posted by ishmael at 5:09 PM on March 6 [2 favorites]
There has been pushback about the historical authenticity of bushido.
And bushido definitely didn't exist as a cultural value in Japan during the time that the show is depicting- the tail end of the Sengoku Jidai, a chaotic era where so many people were breaking the rules for nearly a century and a half.
posted by ishmael at 5:09 PM on March 6 [2 favorites]
I definitely thought this!Did anyone else think they were making Blackthorne dive repeatedly into the water in order to surreptitiously bathe him?
Also on the subject of who Cosmo Jarvis looks like, we’ve been calling him "Tom Hardly".
posted by migurski at 5:24 PM on March 6 [15 favorites]
I hadn't considered it a sneaky way of bathing him, but rather a cunning way of tiring someone you're about to challenge to swim to shore against.
posted by Molesome at 11:33 PM on March 6 [10 favorites]
posted by Molesome at 11:33 PM on March 6 [10 favorites]
Seconding Thorzdad's comment above tho, he really is doing a Richard Burton impression. Very Welsh delivery in his speech. See also: Antony Hopkins.
posted by ishmael at 9:08 AM on March 7 [2 favorites]
posted by ishmael at 9:08 AM on March 7 [2 favorites]
Tom Hardly
For me he looks like Tom Hardy and Andrew Lincoln had a giant overacting baby, but I’m mostly tolerating him.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 5:43 PM on March 7 [1 favorite]
For me he looks like Tom Hardy and Andrew Lincoln had a giant overacting baby, but I’m mostly tolerating him.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 5:43 PM on March 7 [1 favorite]
Since no one seems to have noticed, let me comment: All these years, and still contact lens technology has barely progressed eh.
posted by cendawanita at 2:54 AM on March 8
posted by cendawanita at 2:54 AM on March 8
I sort of wish I'd binged this one and the previous two? Or at least the previous one? While I can keep the actors straight in their street clothes (as it were) and I knew their motivations and goals at the end of the last episode, a lot of fighting in the dark under helmets and I'll admit I was _kind_ of lost during the battle?
posted by Kyol at 8:23 AM on March 8 [1 favorite]
posted by Kyol at 8:23 AM on March 8 [1 favorite]
Maybe. But they aren’t exactly landsmen. The Japanese have large sailing ships. In this era they invaded Korea, for instance, which requires lots of sailing.
Well sure, but it's not like the entire population of Japan got an opportunity to work a sailing ship or other boat. And we're talking specifically about Toranaga's family, court and soldiers here- unlikely to be fisherpeople or sailors.
posted by oneirodynia at 10:17 AM on March 8 [2 favorites]
And we're talking specifically about Toranaga's family, court and soldiers here- unlikely to be fisherpeople or sailors.
Think this is a case of trying to adapt flawed source material. In the book, Toranaga is hapless in the water without Blackthorn's help. Ostensibly to service the plot.
Tokugawa Ieyasu, who Toranaga is based on, was the richest daimyo in Japan at the time, and would certainly have had access to boats or fisherpeople.
posted by ishmael at 1:46 PM on March 8
Think this is a case of trying to adapt flawed source material. In the book, Toranaga is hapless in the water without Blackthorn's help. Ostensibly to service the plot.
Tokugawa Ieyasu, who Toranaga is based on, was the richest daimyo in Japan at the time, and would certainly have had access to boats or fisherpeople.
posted by ishmael at 1:46 PM on March 8
Did anyone else think they were making Blackthorne dive repeatedly into the water in order to surreptitiously bathe him?
But... but... what about the flux?!?
posted by fairmettle at 8:54 PM on March 8 [3 favorites]
But... but... what about the flux?!?
posted by fairmettle at 8:54 PM on March 8 [3 favorites]
why the actor playing Blackthorne bugs me
I wish they had hired Tom Hardy who's a better actor. This guy has such a vacant look on his face at times. Like when the Spanish boat was trying to force his boat aground. He does have a fantastic voice though, Hardy-ish or Russell Crowe circa Gladiator or M&C.
I've been meaning to ask, what is Japan trading with the Spanish? they're getting guns and ammunition but what are they offering in return that's so valuable? I thought it was silk at first but the silk was coming from China.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 6:19 PM on March 9
I wish they had hired Tom Hardy who's a better actor. This guy has such a vacant look on his face at times. Like when the Spanish boat was trying to force his boat aground. He does have a fantastic voice though, Hardy-ish or Russell Crowe circa Gladiator or M&C.
I've been meaning to ask, what is Japan trading with the Spanish? they're getting guns and ammunition but what are they offering in return that's so valuable? I thought it was silk at first but the silk was coming from China.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 6:19 PM on March 9
I've been meaning to ask, what is Japan trading with the Spanish? they're getting guns and ammunition but what are they offering in return that's so valuable? I thought it was silk at first but the silk was coming from China.
japanese silver was a major export, porcelain goods, and slaves.
posted by dis_integration at 7:15 PM on March 9 [3 favorites]
japanese silver was a major export, porcelain goods, and slaves.
posted by dis_integration at 7:15 PM on March 9 [3 favorites]
When Mariko was talking about her husband's reputation as a great warrior I thought she was politely covering for him but as soon as the blades came out it was weirdly satisfying watching Boromir Buntaro stunting on everyone. He was a jerk for sure but I hope they cut back to Osaka three weeks later and he's still just killing fools.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 10:12 PM on March 9 [10 favorites]
posted by Parasite Unseen at 10:12 PM on March 9 [10 favorites]
Tokugawa Ieyasu, who Toranaga is based on, was the richest daimyo in Japan at the time, and would certainly have had access to boats or fisherpeople.
The same was true of Queen Elizabeth, but I don't expect she would have been much of a sailor.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:12 PM on April 6 [1 favorite]
The same was true of Queen Elizabeth, but I don't expect she would have been much of a sailor.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 3:12 PM on April 6 [1 favorite]
what is Japan trading with the Spanish?
Nada. Mas eles estão negociando com os portugueses.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:13 PM on April 21 [2 favorites]
Nada. Mas eles estão negociando com os portugueses.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:13 PM on April 21 [2 favorites]
The same was true of Queen Elizabeth, but I don't expect she would have been much of a sailor.
True, but then again, Queen Elizabeth I wasn't required to constantly make speedy trips from Liverpool to London for diplomatic relations. If she did, she might have become much more familiar with boats.
posted by ishmael at 8:38 AM on April 22
True, but then again, Queen Elizabeth I wasn't required to constantly make speedy trips from Liverpool to London for diplomatic relations. If she did, she might have become much more familiar with boats.
posted by ishmael at 8:38 AM on April 22
Nada. Mas eles estão negociando com os portugueses.
Perhaps according to the book (desculpe, I haven't read the book).
The more important distinction at the time was Catholic/Protestant, not so much Spanish/Portuguese. There was direct communication between Manila (a colony of Spain) and Japan since the 1580's.
And there were Jesuits of other nationalities that were aware of Japan at the time. For example, the person in charge of Asian missions for Jesuits was Alessandro Valignano, an Italian.
posted by ishmael at 8:53 AM on April 22
Perhaps according to the book (desculpe, I haven't read the book).
The more important distinction at the time was Catholic/Protestant, not so much Spanish/Portuguese. There was direct communication between Manila (a colony of Spain) and Japan since the 1580's.
And there were Jesuits of other nationalities that were aware of Japan at the time. For example, the person in charge of Asian missions for Jesuits was Alessandro Valignano, an Italian.
posted by ishmael at 8:53 AM on April 22
This is just to say, thinking of this show as alternate history or fantasy, like Game of Thrones, makes all the magical flintlock pistols and pajama ninjers go down easier for me.
posted by ishmael at 9:00 AM on April 22 [1 favorite]
posted by ishmael at 9:00 AM on April 22 [1 favorite]
I noticed during the credits that we have one Kimono Specialist, one Kimono Coordinator, one Kimono Advisor, one Assistant Kimono Advisor, one Kimono Design Consultant, and 7 Kimono Technicians listed.
Impressive! But we still see Marino-sama transition straight from tight kimono baby steps into warrior dispatching head kicks in adjacent scenes.
I saw no swimwear consultant listed to explain Blackthorns’s attire.
posted by rongorongo at 10:26 AM on May 6
Impressive! But we still see Marino-sama transition straight from tight kimono baby steps into warrior dispatching head kicks in adjacent scenes.
I saw no swimwear consultant listed to explain Blackthorns’s attire.
posted by rongorongo at 10:26 AM on May 6
> Did anyone else think they were making Blackthorne dive repeatedly into the water in order to surreptitiously bathe him?
Yup!
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:56 AM on July 14
Yup!
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:56 AM on July 14
I'm having problems keeping the palace politics straight, as always happens for me in these kinds of shows. But dang, I can just keep watching for the amazing costumes. (I am skeptical that they had false eyelashes in 1600-ish Japan, but ah well.)
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:58 AM on July 14
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:58 AM on July 14
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I think... and don't let my mother read this, but I think I prefer the Cosmo Jarvis Anjin-san to Richard Chamberlain's.
posted by Molesome at 6:14 AM on March 5 [3 favorites]