Star Trek: Discovery: Jinaal
April 11, 2024 9:58 PM - Season 5, Episode 3 - Subscribe
Burnham and Co. take a trip to Trill to find the next piece of the puzzle. Rayner is ordered to bond with the crew.
Memory Alpha's still filling in information.
Memorable Quotes:
"Since you won't give me permission to speak freely, I'm just going to take it. Captain Burnham, she sees something in you but for the life of me I have no idea what it is. So how about this, how about I'm next? Here are my twenty words: You're. On. A. New. Ship. Fresh. Off. A. Demotion. Trying. To. Hide. How. Hard. That. Is. By. Being. A. Giant— oh, that's 20 words, so..." - Tilly, expressing her frustration to Rayner
"Wow. This guy really works out." - Jinaal, observing the body he's in control of
Personal Log:
Lots of great moments in this episode. Wilson Cruz's Jinaal is a very different person than Dr. Culber and Cruz wears him well. I think Rayner's no-nonsense attitude, while weird for Discovery's family dynamic, is appropriate for both Starfleet and Rayner's species. I'm not sure I'm happy with the 'Vulcan Purists' storyline - it feels a little too close to some of Enterprise's shenanigans - but the T'rina/Saru ship is still watertight.
Memory Alpha's still filling in information.
Memorable Quotes:
"Since you won't give me permission to speak freely, I'm just going to take it. Captain Burnham, she sees something in you but for the life of me I have no idea what it is. So how about this, how about I'm next? Here are my twenty words: You're. On. A. New. Ship. Fresh. Off. A. Demotion. Trying. To. Hide. How. Hard. That. Is. By. Being. A. Giant— oh, that's 20 words, so..." - Tilly, expressing her frustration to Rayner
"Wow. This guy really works out." - Jinaal, observing the body he's in control of
Personal Log:
Lots of great moments in this episode. Wilson Cruz's Jinaal is a very different person than Dr. Culber and Cruz wears him well. I think Rayner's no-nonsense attitude, while weird for Discovery's family dynamic, is appropriate for both Starfleet and Rayner's species. I'm not sure I'm happy with the 'Vulcan Purists' storyline - it feels a little too close to some of Enterprise's shenanigans - but the T'rina/Saru ship is still watertight.
Yeah by the third time a character looked straight at the camera and said “the theme of this episode is Connections” I felt like maybe it was a little much.
Dug the DS9 acknowledgements like the Ferengi bartender and whole Trill ritual thing. Kind of funny how even the dead guy from centuries ago has picked up that here in the far future, everyone speaks only in hushed, important whispers. Saru and T’Rina are a fun couple and her no-nonsense attitude to the idea that interpersonal inflict exists and should not be taken personally was nice.
Adira and Grey felt like a character story revelation that was… I kind of can’t tell if it was intended to be played as a surprise, or as a thing being built up to and foreshadowed heavily. I found myself thinking a lot about the observation, I think from the podcast Greatest Trek, that in most Star Trek series you have such a general level of professionalism and emotional detachment that when someone does speak candidly about their emotional state and inner life, it really makes an impact. Hell, TNG ends on Picard getting over himself and asking to join the crew poker game. Discovery, though, kind of constantly lives in intimate emotional revelations at all times, so there’s no sense of dynamic range. There’s no room left to punctuate the important moments when you already live at a nine or ten out of ten at all times.
This does mean though that I do find the new number one to be an interesting addition to the crew, like the Frank Grimes of Star Trek
posted by DoctorFedora at 12:10 AM on April 12 [3 favorites]
Dug the DS9 acknowledgements like the Ferengi bartender and whole Trill ritual thing. Kind of funny how even the dead guy from centuries ago has picked up that here in the far future, everyone speaks only in hushed, important whispers. Saru and T’Rina are a fun couple and her no-nonsense attitude to the idea that interpersonal inflict exists and should not be taken personally was nice.
Adira and Grey felt like a character story revelation that was… I kind of can’t tell if it was intended to be played as a surprise, or as a thing being built up to and foreshadowed heavily. I found myself thinking a lot about the observation, I think from the podcast Greatest Trek, that in most Star Trek series you have such a general level of professionalism and emotional detachment that when someone does speak candidly about their emotional state and inner life, it really makes an impact. Hell, TNG ends on Picard getting over himself and asking to join the crew poker game. Discovery, though, kind of constantly lives in intimate emotional revelations at all times, so there’s no sense of dynamic range. There’s no room left to punctuate the important moments when you already live at a nine or ten out of ten at all times.
This does mean though that I do find the new number one to be an interesting addition to the crew, like the Frank Grimes of Star Trek
posted by DoctorFedora at 12:10 AM on April 12 [3 favorites]
I'm a sceptical Discovery watcher, and a lot of the dialogue still grates on me, but I quite liked most of this episode. I hope we get more of this sort of thing.
* I don't love the treasure hunt season arc, but the past few episodes showed that there can be some variations on the theme (at the start I was really worried that every single episode was going to have a race for the clue ending in Moll and L'ak getting away in the nick of time after throwing a basket of kittens in a river in front of the crew).
* I thought it was disappointing that Grey ended up being so underused. The choice to introduce him as an inexplicable symbiont ghost that only Adira could interact with was weird and inherently self-limiting, and I don't know if the writers ever knew what to actually *do* with him. At least his relationship with Adira has been wrapped up. It feels like there was a massive missed opportunity here.
* I like Rayner, and I liked his banter with Tilly. CKR is one of my favourite character actors; I was waiting to see if he was going to be a secret bad guy again. Probably not at this point.
I have pretty much the same complaints that I've had since the third season: I like the characters, and I like the setup of them being transported into the far future, but I'm mostly frustrated by what the show is doing with these raw materials. I'm really hoping that the upcoming Starfleet Academy series will reuse some of these elements in stories that I like more (please, no more seasonal arcs about Big Dumb Objects and threats to the galaxy / universe / all of humanoid life).
posted by confluency at 2:50 AM on April 12 [1 favorite]
* I don't love the treasure hunt season arc, but the past few episodes showed that there can be some variations on the theme (at the start I was really worried that every single episode was going to have a race for the clue ending in Moll and L'ak getting away in the nick of time after throwing a basket of kittens in a river in front of the crew).
* I thought it was disappointing that Grey ended up being so underused. The choice to introduce him as an inexplicable symbiont ghost that only Adira could interact with was weird and inherently self-limiting, and I don't know if the writers ever knew what to actually *do* with him. At least his relationship with Adira has been wrapped up. It feels like there was a massive missed opportunity here.
* I like Rayner, and I liked his banter with Tilly. CKR is one of my favourite character actors; I was waiting to see if he was going to be a secret bad guy again. Probably not at this point.
I have pretty much the same complaints that I've had since the third season: I like the characters, and I like the setup of them being transported into the far future, but I'm mostly frustrated by what the show is doing with these raw materials. I'm really hoping that the upcoming Starfleet Academy series will reuse some of these elements in stories that I like more (please, no more seasonal arcs about Big Dumb Objects and threats to the galaxy / universe / all of humanoid life).
posted by confluency at 2:50 AM on April 12 [1 favorite]
Not a bad episode; the invisible laser dinosaurs were stupid but whatever, Discovery has to have its one requisite unnecessary action scene per episode. I liked Tilly and Rayner's subplot and I'm happy Grey is (hopefully) gone.
posted by rhymedirective at 6:29 AM on April 12
posted by rhymedirective at 6:29 AM on April 12
I also liked this episode! But I thought that was a serious heel turn from Gray. Maneuvering your neuroatypical enbyfriend into breaking up with you without them realizing that was your plan all along. Kinda awful! I wonder if they have another episode written for Ian Alexander or if that's going to be that. I hope they take the story somewhere interesting, like some righteous anger from Adira at being jilted. Seems unlikely but poor Adira.
Speaking of casting timing, it's strange that Saru is off on his own. The character is so great and Doug Jones is so good. Lots of meaningful acting from him this episode, his physicality and emotionality behind the very heavy prosthetic / mask is impressive. I'm also fascinated by the romance story with T'Rina, interested to see where that goes.
I want to give props to the writers team. Last week I wrote this snark:
The writers also have had some fun turning the Disco emotional sincerity trope on its head. Jett Reno remains a breath of fresh air every single scene, she is just hilarious. Is Tig Nitaro writing the scripts or is someone writing something perfectly for the actor? Also love Commander Asshole here as the foil to Feelings Trek. It's fun to see someone competent articulate a different thesis, the Captain Liam Shaw school of personnel management.
I really do love this show. I've complained about its excesses and silliness in the past here and I stand by those complaints. But I also love what they're doing and am eager to watch the conclusion of this story.
posted by Nelson at 7:09 AM on April 12 [1 favorite]
Speaking of casting timing, it's strange that Saru is off on his own. The character is so great and Doug Jones is so good. Lots of meaningful acting from him this episode, his physicality and emotionality behind the very heavy prosthetic / mask is impressive. I'm also fascinated by the romance story with T'Rina, interested to see where that goes.
I want to give props to the writers team. Last week I wrote this snark:
the clue leads us vaguely to this planet so we'll beam right down to the exact place on the planet's vast surface to find the McGuffinI appreciated this episode had an explicit addressing of that question. They must have read my Fanfare comment and shot some new scenes just for us.
The writers also have had some fun turning the Disco emotional sincerity trope on its head. Jett Reno remains a breath of fresh air every single scene, she is just hilarious. Is Tig Nitaro writing the scripts or is someone writing something perfectly for the actor? Also love Commander Asshole here as the foil to Feelings Trek. It's fun to see someone competent articulate a different thesis, the Captain Liam Shaw school of personnel management.
I really do love this show. I've complained about its excesses and silliness in the past here and I stand by those complaints. But I also love what they're doing and am eager to watch the conclusion of this story.
posted by Nelson at 7:09 AM on April 12 [1 favorite]
The Trek track record with Trill-heavy episodes did not inspire confidence, but I liked this one a lot more than I expected to. Similarly, my eyes were primed to roll in the early phases of Jinaal's whole approach here, but by the end I was fine with it.
I expect shouty and maybe even violent antagonism, if not necessarily secret villainy, from Commander Demotion and I think his little "in the wrong hands" moment in this episode explicitly previews it, especially in light of his species and in light of the other characters being shown here starting to warm up to the notion of using Progenitor tech "for good."
So now we gotta take bets on which character(s) are gonna get reincarnated before the tech is taken off the table. Picard is a possibility, but I'd bet against it. Maybe Saru after he gets himself killed by the Vulcan extremists. Probably Moll and/or L'ak, whichever one dies first and thereby starts to really radicalize the other. And my wacky bet is the Federation president from exactly 1,000 years ago—Jonathan Archer.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 7:31 AM on April 12
I expect shouty and maybe even violent antagonism, if not necessarily secret villainy, from Commander Demotion and I think his little "in the wrong hands" moment in this episode explicitly previews it, especially in light of his species and in light of the other characters being shown here starting to warm up to the notion of using Progenitor tech "for good."
So now we gotta take bets on which character(s) are gonna get reincarnated before the tech is taken off the table. Picard is a possibility, but I'd bet against it. Maybe Saru after he gets himself killed by the Vulcan extremists. Probably Moll and/or L'ak, whichever one dies first and thereby starts to really radicalize the other. And my wacky bet is the Federation president from exactly 1,000 years ago—Jonathan Archer.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 7:31 AM on April 12
Oh yeah I expected Saru to die immediately when they talked about how one mission away from retirement he was last week. Someone is definitely dying, temporarily, this season.
posted by DoctorFedora at 7:44 AM on April 12 [1 favorite]
posted by DoctorFedora at 7:44 AM on April 12 [1 favorite]
In watching the "previously" segment, I gotta appreciate how they did not draw out the secret about the connection between Book and Moll.
There seem to be a lot of twos. So many characters are paired up, mostly romantically. But also the clues have had twos in them: twin moons, and two souls entwined. Deliberate theme? probably not.
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 8:11 AM on April 12
There seem to be a lot of twos. So many characters are paired up, mostly romantically. But also the clues have had twos in them: twin moons, and two souls entwined. Deliberate theme? probably not.
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 8:11 AM on April 12
Yesss, I forgot to mention this, but as soon as it was said that the progenitor tech could perhaps be used to raise the dead, I had a sudden horrible premonition that we were heading for an extremely self-indulgent beloved cast member death fakeout. I really hope I'm wrong. Or at least that it's done in a slightly unexpected way. Come on, Chekhov's Resurrection Spell, I believe in you.
posted by confluency at 8:45 AM on April 13
posted by confluency at 8:45 AM on April 13
So now we gotta take bets on which character(s) are gonna get reincarnated before the tech is taken off the table.
“Captain, there must be some mistake. The man you asked us to revive says he’s just a plain and simple tailor.”
posted by Servo5678 at 2:18 PM on April 13 [10 favorites]
“Captain, there must be some mistake. The man you asked us to revive says he’s just a plain and simple tailor.”
posted by Servo5678 at 2:18 PM on April 13 [10 favorites]
I'm happy Disco is back, but there is just something about the writing of these episodes that makes my eyes glaze over. I find myself way more easily distracted then I normally do watching Trek. Like, during the whole Gray/Adira scene I went and did the laundry, and I *hate* doing the laundry.
I'm also already bored with the whole space scavenger hunt plot.
Ah well. Maybe what I really want is to just go watch SNW or Lower Decks again.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 5:12 AM on April 14
I'm also already bored with the whole space scavenger hunt plot.
Ah well. Maybe what I really want is to just go watch SNW or Lower Decks again.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 5:12 AM on April 14
I really wanted the Trill ritual to come to an abrupt end with Jinaal panicking about the fact that he's just inhabited the body of a mushroom zombie.
Still, it was neat to get an episode on Trill where the Trill themselves were not raging assholes.
Also, has anybody else noticed that a lot of the scenes in this season seem like they're being shot without all of the actors actually being in the same room? There was one Adria/Stamets scene where nearly every single shot was "over the shoulder," almost never showing both of them in the same frame.
Were there scheduling difficulties? Lots of re-shoots? Is this just a weird directorial decision? I feel like this could explain some of the awkward dialog or the cast's seeming lack of chemistry.
posted by schmod at 6:37 AM on April 14
Still, it was neat to get an episode on Trill where the Trill themselves were not raging assholes.
Also, has anybody else noticed that a lot of the scenes in this season seem like they're being shot without all of the actors actually being in the same room? There was one Adria/Stamets scene where nearly every single shot was "over the shoulder," almost never showing both of them in the same frame.
Were there scheduling difficulties? Lots of re-shoots? Is this just a weird directorial decision? I feel like this could explain some of the awkward dialog or the cast's seeming lack of chemistry.
posted by schmod at 6:37 AM on April 14
Last dialogue whinge, I promise, and then it'll be out of my system. I thought that this episode was a perfect example of how the writers snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, and how the bad dialogue makes perfectly fine dialogue worse.
In one of the first two episodes of this season (can't remember which), Culber name-drops his abuela completely randomly in the middle of a throwaway remark about how he doesn't know anything about some people (Moll and L'ak).
Nobody talks like this. It sounds completely unnatural. Stuff like this is my single biggest objection to the last few seasons of the show. I'll forgive almost anything -- the most ridiculous plot twists, technobabble, out-of-character U-turns, whatever -- if I believe that the characters are real people having real conversations and responding to what is happening around them realistically. Bad dialogue destroys my suspension of disbelief.
There seems to have been a slight improvement in this season so far (IIRC nobody has dropped paragraphs of meaningful backstory from their childhood in the middle of a time-sensitive life-threatening situation yet), but this was extremely jarring.
So then, in this episode, Culber brings up his abuela again, and this time it would have been completely fine -- he's just had what we could call a spiritual experience; it's a completely normal time for him to bring up his grandma who was super into religion. Has he brought her up before, like when he literally died and came back from the dead? I don't remember and I don't care; it's not something that I would have nitpicked. It's fine. It would have been a perfectly good bit of dialogue. But, because of the previous reference, all I'm thinking is "ugh, that's why they put in that terrible bit of dialogue before; they thought that it would be better if it was a callback."
Semi-relatedly, after reading the comments on a video review (Jessie Gender is doing per-episode reviews on her After Dark YouTube channel; I quite like them) I've put my finger on something that bothers me about the way Adira has been written (and directed?), apart from being generally underwritten as a character: the writers seem to have forgotten that they have a Trill symbiont, and they seem to be writing them as a generic Young Person. Their role is now mostly to deliver exposition with such lack of confidence that they sound like they're perpetually apologising for speaking. I find their scenes viscerally uncomfortable to watch because of this.
posted by confluency at 2:58 AM on April 15 [3 favorites]
In one of the first two episodes of this season (can't remember which), Culber name-drops his abuela completely randomly in the middle of a throwaway remark about how he doesn't know anything about some people (Moll and L'ak).
Nobody talks like this. It sounds completely unnatural. Stuff like this is my single biggest objection to the last few seasons of the show. I'll forgive almost anything -- the most ridiculous plot twists, technobabble, out-of-character U-turns, whatever -- if I believe that the characters are real people having real conversations and responding to what is happening around them realistically. Bad dialogue destroys my suspension of disbelief.
There seems to have been a slight improvement in this season so far (IIRC nobody has dropped paragraphs of meaningful backstory from their childhood in the middle of a time-sensitive life-threatening situation yet), but this was extremely jarring.
So then, in this episode, Culber brings up his abuela again, and this time it would have been completely fine -- he's just had what we could call a spiritual experience; it's a completely normal time for him to bring up his grandma who was super into religion. Has he brought her up before, like when he literally died and came back from the dead? I don't remember and I don't care; it's not something that I would have nitpicked. It's fine. It would have been a perfectly good bit of dialogue. But, because of the previous reference, all I'm thinking is "ugh, that's why they put in that terrible bit of dialogue before; they thought that it would be better if it was a callback."
Semi-relatedly, after reading the comments on a video review (Jessie Gender is doing per-episode reviews on her After Dark YouTube channel; I quite like them) I've put my finger on something that bothers me about the way Adira has been written (and directed?), apart from being generally underwritten as a character: the writers seem to have forgotten that they have a Trill symbiont, and they seem to be writing them as a generic Young Person. Their role is now mostly to deliver exposition with such lack of confidence that they sound like they're perpetually apologising for speaking. I find their scenes viscerally uncomfortable to watch because of this.
posted by confluency at 2:58 AM on April 15 [3 favorites]
I really enjoyed Culber being possessed by the Trill consciousness. The actor looked like he was having fun.
posted by Alex404 at 6:20 AM on April 29 [1 favorite]
posted by Alex404 at 6:20 AM on April 29 [1 favorite]
Catching up on my DIS, so coming in a bit late. Liked this, although I'm starting to wonder if some of the bits in each episode (Grey and Adira here) are specifically about tying up loose ends with various characters. Agreed that Cruz did well with the zhian'tara thing.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:56 AM on May 14
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:56 AM on May 14
Dunno if we'll ever see them again, but the cloaked laser dinosaurs were very definitely made with progenitor tech, either for laughs just before they realised it was too dangerous, or for this exact purpose.
posted by polytope subirb enby-of-piano-dice at 7:21 AM on May 17
posted by polytope subirb enby-of-piano-dice at 7:21 AM on May 17
My understanding is that ALL life in our galaxy is from the Prpgenitors, right? They lit the spark in the primordial goo which led to the evolition of everything
posted by Saxon Kane at 8:59 PM on September 12
posted by Saxon Kane at 8:59 PM on September 12
Oh, and when I first saw the title, I thought it said "Jindal" and I was like, ooooh boy, this isn't going to be good...
posted by Saxon Kane at 1:49 PM on September 13
posted by Saxon Kane at 1:49 PM on September 13
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It still suffered a little bit from streaming padding and some of the dialogue is so on-the-nose. But it felt like a solid Trek adventure - not an all-time classic or anything, but a fun mid-season ep. I just wish there was more season than just 10 episodes!
posted by crossoverman at 11:32 PM on April 11