Sorry/Not Sorry (2023)
October 7, 2024 4:52 AM - Subscribe
[Trailer] An inside look at Louis CK's fall and return to the spotlight. Interviews include fellow comedians and women who spoke up about his sexual misconduct. -- IMDb
I'm not going to watch this, but what information is revealed? Who is out there defending Louis CK?
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 8:44 AM on October 7, 2024
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 8:44 AM on October 7, 2024
Oof. Well. Hiding this under a spoiler tag, mostly because it's such a long comment and I don't want to take up all the air in the room.
C.K. obviously defended himself (implicitly) in his "Sorry" routine, describing it as a kink (rather than a violation of consent) and pointing out that it became a global talking point and even Obama knows what his deal is. Which, yes, probably, and also so what? Don't cause that problem and you won't have that problem. (And what about the various careers he derailed, and the avalanche of hate unleashed on the women who spoke out because he dragged his feet for years admitting the little bit that he did admit?)
Dave Chappelle and Bill Maher were predictably on the wrong side of this one. Chappelle called one of the victims "brittle-ass" and asked if she knew how to hang up a phone. (I guess it's convenient to Chappelle's bit to ignore that hanging up might grant some agency and end the immediate situation but it doesn't undo it.)
Roseanne Barr attacked the accusers, saying they should have left the room and calling them "ho"s.
Joe Rogan's read of the situation, as I remember it, was shockingly more nuanced than Barr's, Chappelle's, or Maher's, though he resorted to toxic masculinity in condemning it (I think he called it "pathetic" or somesuch, as if the problem was not the behavior itself but how other manly men perceived it).
Noam Dworman (who owns the Comedy Cellar) was taken to task for starting C.K.'s rehabilitation tour and mostly took a libertarian argument in defending it, saying that people wanted the tickets and he was running a private business so others didn't have the right to stop him. (Was anyone actually trying to stop him? Or were they just saying, correctly, that he's a jackass for enabling C.K.?) He did get into it a bit about how everyone has skeletons in their closet, yadda yadda, but he didn't engage with whether C.K. actually showed remorse for his actions and had any intention (much less a plan!) for changing.
Matt Damon seemed to think all the incidents were consensual (they weren't) and ignored the importance of power dynamics; in the clip they showed, his take was basically that C.K. had consent and that that was all you could expect. (If he had been right about the consent he would have been right about the rest; he wasn't so wasn't.)
Jon Stewart got an odd deer-in-the-headlights look when asked at an event if he knew about it; he said he hadn't seen the tweets (that was not the question asked). Odd non-denial denial. Later he was on Howard Stern asking what if he had known about it subconsciously, or should have known about it, or somesuch. (From all this, I decided that he definitely knew about it but probably can't handle the thought of being less of an ally than he'd like to be. I mean. Sit with that discomfort, examine it. See where it takes you.)
Mike Schur said that at the time he had C.K. on Parks & Rec he considered it "not his problem," and added (later in the film) that that attitude is exactly part of the problem. I wish they had shown more from Schur, especially given his recent book on ethics. There was a real opportunity to get at some important ethical questions; if they tried to, it either didn't amount to anything or they decided not to include it.
I'm sure there were others who came in some weird way to his defense but I'm drawing a blank at the moment. The other enablers I remember were mostly just random dudebros.
FWIW, Sarah Silverman seemed utterly sincere, and distraught, in saying that she considered him a friend and was not okay with his behavior (I'm badly paraphrasing here). Tig Notaro also went on record saying that she felt used by him.
posted by johnofjack at 2:00 PM on October 7, 2024 [11 favorites]
Spoiler
C.K. obviously defended himself (implicitly) in his "Sorry" routine, describing it as a kink (rather than a violation of consent) and pointing out that it became a global talking point and even Obama knows what his deal is. Which, yes, probably, and also so what? Don't cause that problem and you won't have that problem. (And what about the various careers he derailed, and the avalanche of hate unleashed on the women who spoke out because he dragged his feet for years admitting the little bit that he did admit?)
Dave Chappelle and Bill Maher were predictably on the wrong side of this one. Chappelle called one of the victims "brittle-ass" and asked if she knew how to hang up a phone. (I guess it's convenient to Chappelle's bit to ignore that hanging up might grant some agency and end the immediate situation but it doesn't undo it.)
Roseanne Barr attacked the accusers, saying they should have left the room and calling them "ho"s.
Joe Rogan's read of the situation, as I remember it, was shockingly more nuanced than Barr's, Chappelle's, or Maher's, though he resorted to toxic masculinity in condemning it (I think he called it "pathetic" or somesuch, as if the problem was not the behavior itself but how other manly men perceived it).
Noam Dworman (who owns the Comedy Cellar) was taken to task for starting C.K.'s rehabilitation tour and mostly took a libertarian argument in defending it, saying that people wanted the tickets and he was running a private business so others didn't have the right to stop him. (Was anyone actually trying to stop him? Or were they just saying, correctly, that he's a jackass for enabling C.K.?) He did get into it a bit about how everyone has skeletons in their closet, yadda yadda, but he didn't engage with whether C.K. actually showed remorse for his actions and had any intention (much less a plan!) for changing.
Matt Damon seemed to think all the incidents were consensual (they weren't) and ignored the importance of power dynamics; in the clip they showed, his take was basically that C.K. had consent and that that was all you could expect. (If he had been right about the consent he would have been right about the rest; he wasn't so wasn't.)
Jon Stewart got an odd deer-in-the-headlights look when asked at an event if he knew about it; he said he hadn't seen the tweets (that was not the question asked). Odd non-denial denial. Later he was on Howard Stern asking what if he had known about it subconsciously, or should have known about it, or somesuch. (From all this, I decided that he definitely knew about it but probably can't handle the thought of being less of an ally than he'd like to be. I mean. Sit with that discomfort, examine it. See where it takes you.)
Mike Schur said that at the time he had C.K. on Parks & Rec he considered it "not his problem," and added (later in the film) that that attitude is exactly part of the problem. I wish they had shown more from Schur, especially given his recent book on ethics. There was a real opportunity to get at some important ethical questions; if they tried to, it either didn't amount to anything or they decided not to include it.
I'm sure there were others who came in some weird way to his defense but I'm drawing a blank at the moment. The other enablers I remember were mostly just random dudebros.
FWIW, Sarah Silverman seemed utterly sincere, and distraught, in saying that she considered him a friend and was not okay with his behavior (I'm badly paraphrasing here). Tig Notaro also went on record saying that she felt used by him.
posted by johnofjack at 2:00 PM on October 7, 2024 [11 favorites]
Thanks!!
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 4:36 PM on October 7, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 4:36 PM on October 7, 2024 [1 favorite]
Yeah....fuck that guy and any supporters. Chapelle, Maher, and Roseanne. Real quality folks there.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:30 AM on October 8, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:30 AM on October 8, 2024 [1 favorite]
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posted by johnofjack at 4:58 AM on October 7, 2024 [3 favorites]