Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: One Door Opens
April 1, 2015 9:22 AM - Season 2, Episode 15 - Subscribe
The REAL Shield makes its move against Coulson's Shield, with the help of double agents Bobbie and Mack. Meanwhile Skye has a nice chat with a teleporter. Lance spends all his submerisble vehicle, before making his decision about joining Coulson Shield
Agent Carter recap here, but overall a bit of an odd episode, though good in terms of pushing the plot forward and character relationships. The biggest problem is that REAL Shield doesn't make much sense at this point and feels like out of place. Much like the mysterious cargo in the the aircraft carrier's hold, there's was no clue as who or what this new group was or is. With no build up other than Mack and Bobbi talking in hushed whispers about "that other thing," we had no reason to care about this other group at all. Hopefully they'll turn out to be some ultra secret Hydra threat that brainwashed captured agents, that at least would make sense. After all, we never saw that team actually retake the ship, only try to. Fingers crossed.
Best moment though? Simmons taking out Bobbi. The bubbly scientist is a great cover!
Agent Carter recap here, but overall a bit of an odd episode, though good in terms of pushing the plot forward and character relationships. The biggest problem is that REAL Shield doesn't make much sense at this point and feels like out of place. Much like the mysterious cargo in the the aircraft carrier's hold, there's was no clue as who or what this new group was or is. With no build up other than Mack and Bobbi talking in hushed whispers about "that other thing," we had no reason to care about this other group at all. Hopefully they'll turn out to be some ultra secret Hydra threat that brainwashed captured agents, that at least would make sense. After all, we never saw that team actually retake the ship, only try to. Fingers crossed.
Best moment though? Simmons taking out Bobbi. The bubbly scientist is a great cover!
Okay and also? That elevator Coulson got in to escape in? Elevators should NOT travel at those speeds!
posted by instead of three wishes at 10:07 AM on April 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by instead of three wishes at 10:07 AM on April 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
It seemed clear to me that the gun fired against Skye was definitely not an icer, so R.E.A.L. S.H.I.E.L.D. contains some very bad elements. Still HYDRA infiltrated?
I just wish I understood who's paying for all this. Whose funding is covering the salaries of all these agents?
The end of this season lands right around Age of Ultron, so I suspect the "Nick Fury is alive" reveal will not come until those last three episodes run. So we've got at least two more episodes of building this plotline before it resolves.
It's odd, but I thought Ward would be a greater focus this season.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 10:21 AM on April 1, 2015
I just wish I understood who's paying for all this. Whose funding is covering the salaries of all these agents?
The end of this season lands right around Age of Ultron, so I suspect the "Nick Fury is alive" reveal will not come until those last three episodes run. So we've got at least two more episodes of building this plotline before it resolves.
It's odd, but I thought Ward would be a greater focus this season.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 10:21 AM on April 1, 2015
Mack and Bobbi just look stupid at the moment. May shows everyone how it should be done as usual, and it's good to see those little Fitz and Simmons moments again.
Hunter has absolutely grown on me.
posted by dazed_one at 10:22 AM on April 1, 2015
Hunter has absolutely grown on me.
posted by dazed_one at 10:22 AM on April 1, 2015
I'm still convinced that Real SHIELD is in operating with the knowledge and resources of General Talbot and the Government.
But there is so much that just doesn't make sense, especially in regards to the motivation and actions of Real SHIELD. In fact, during the flashback scene in about three seconds Bobbi went from "yeah, democracy! let's do that!" to "I'm going to fight to save this ship rather than destroy it whether you like it or not!" It was sort of a strange, shoehorned scene.
It appeared that only Kirk Acevedo's character was using real bullets. Everyone else presumably was firing icers.
posted by 2ht at 10:32 AM on April 1, 2015
But there is so much that just doesn't make sense, especially in regards to the motivation and actions of Real SHIELD. In fact, during the flashback scene in about three seconds Bobbi went from "yeah, democracy! let's do that!" to "I'm going to fight to save this ship rather than destroy it whether you like it or not!" It was sort of a strange, shoehorned scene.
It appeared that only Kirk Acevedo's character was using real bullets. Everyone else presumably was firing icers.
posted by 2ht at 10:32 AM on April 1, 2015
Coulson's SHIELD just looks incompetent right now.
The worst part is that he knew something was coming and still got rolled.
Oh, and remember, Fury's still alive. You'd think May or Coulson could make a phone call and clear this up right quick.
And how exactly is REALSHIELD keeping the aircraft (heli?) carrier a secret? You need fuel for the planes, food for the people, and you're kinda really big. How is it that Talbot and the government folks haven't noticed them yet?
Worst is, unless REALSHIELD is Hydra-ridden* we don't actually have a villain here, we've got a disagreement between good guys.
*and it could be, we don't know which side Adama was on in that boardroom fight, and non-icer guy wasn't on the carrier. Come to think of it, Adama wanted to sink the carrier even after it was clear that Hydra was losing, and he's very intent on getting to the fancy gadgets. But haven't we done Hydra already?
posted by leotrotsky at 10:32 AM on April 1, 2015
The worst part is that he knew something was coming and still got rolled.
Oh, and remember, Fury's still alive. You'd think May or Coulson could make a phone call and clear this up right quick.
And how exactly is REALSHIELD keeping the aircraft (heli?) carrier a secret? You need fuel for the planes, food for the people, and you're kinda really big. How is it that Talbot and the government folks haven't noticed them yet?
Worst is, unless REALSHIELD is Hydra-ridden* we don't actually have a villain here, we've got a disagreement between good guys.
*and it could be, we don't know which side Adama was on in that boardroom fight, and non-icer guy wasn't on the carrier. Come to think of it, Adama wanted to sink the carrier even after it was clear that Hydra was losing, and he's very intent on getting to the fancy gadgets. But haven't we done Hydra already?
posted by leotrotsky at 10:32 AM on April 1, 2015
Wait Wait. Is HYDRA compartmentalized, or do they know each other?
Ward was Hydra, but was always loyal only to Garrett. Could he spot remaining Hydra infiltrators in REALSHIELD?
Wouldn't be ironic if he circles back into the story at the very end only to kill off Adama as a Hydra mole?
posted by leotrotsky at 10:38 AM on April 1, 2015
Ward was Hydra, but was always loyal only to Garrett. Could he spot remaining Hydra infiltrators in REALSHIELD?
Wouldn't be ironic if he circles back into the story at the very end only to kill off Adama as a Hydra mole?
posted by leotrotsky at 10:38 AM on April 1, 2015
I'm pretty convinced that (Adama) is Hydra.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:00 AM on April 1, 2015
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:00 AM on April 1, 2015
It seemed clear to me that the gun fired against Skye was definitely not an icer, so R.E.A.L. S.H.I.E.L.D. contains some very bad elements. Still HYDRA infiltrated?
They don't have to be Hydra to be jerks. It gets really old when every bad apple is explained away as being Hydra.
posted by homunculus at 11:09 AM on April 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
They don't have to be Hydra to be jerks. It gets really old when every bad apple is explained away as being Hydra.
posted by homunculus at 11:09 AM on April 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Bobbie had about a half dozen close ups showing her "conflicted" face. Wouldn't be surprised if she flipped in the next couple episodes. The birth of REAL Shield lies squarely on her shoulders, and she knows it.
posted by klarck at 11:21 AM on April 1, 2015
posted by klarck at 11:21 AM on April 1, 2015
In fact, during the flashback scene in about three seconds Bobbi went from "yeah, democracy! let's do that!" to "I'm going to fight to save this ship rather than destroy it whether you like it or not!" It was sort of a strange, shoehorned scene.
Democracy is messy like that, where people don't always follow orders, yet things turn out ok. That's probably where Gonzales got the idea to have SHIELD board, instead of single leader.
Assuming he isn't Hydra brainwashed.
What's the precious cargo they're carrying? I don't know and don't much care. There's been zero hints so far, much like nuSHIELD, so there's not much point in engaging in guessing.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:31 AM on April 1, 2015
Democracy is messy like that, where people don't always follow orders, yet things turn out ok. That's probably where Gonzales got the idea to have SHIELD board, instead of single leader.
Assuming he isn't Hydra brainwashed.
What's the precious cargo they're carrying? I don't know and don't much care. There's been zero hints so far, much like nuSHIELD, so there's not much point in engaging in guessing.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:31 AM on April 1, 2015
Loki's scepter is with Baron Strucker, as seen at the end of the Winter Soldier. It sounded like he's had it for a bit. Hmm, how did he get that scepter, which was last seen in Stark/Avenger's Tower at the end of Avengers?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:42 PM on April 1, 2015
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:42 PM on April 1, 2015
Man, that time undercover sure paid off for Simmons, being able to pull a fast one on Bobbi like that.
The thing with the whole "disagreement between good guys" thing is it only works if one side isn't being fucking stupid, and that's so far not been the case here. Really, Adama? You think Nick Fury's habit of keeping secrets had more to do with SHIELD's collapse than a HYDRA conspiracy that literally dated back to the founding of the agency? What percentage of SHIELD was already HYDRA when Fury became director? How much worse could it have been if Fury told his HYDRA-riddled agency everything he was planning and doing? But nope, Adama gives Coulson this "I wonder if you really believe that." as if Coulson was the one who hadn't really thought things through.
But then, RealSHIELD established itself with a lucky success at a completely strategically unsound plan to retake a HYDRA-infested aircraft carrier instead of just sinking it and getting out. And they seem to think that sending in heavily-armed tactical teams is an appropriate response to every single situation, be it philosophical disagreements with Coulson or vague ill-defined concerns about Skye. (And what were they going to do after icing her? Where are you going to put her that's safer than a Banner-designed, Hulk-proof cabin in the middle of nowhere?) Hell, during their takeover of Coulson's base they damn near killed their own guy Mack. No mystery why Nick Fury didn't put these folks in charge; even if they are completely above-board and well-meaning, they have demonstrated all the strategic sense of a four-year old with a baseball bat.
I do want to re-watch the Winter Soldier, now, though. Haven't seen it since it was in the theater, but I recall their early mission was to free hostages aboard a ship; Cap got in a fight with Batroc and Black Widow had some kind of a secret other mission to do secret spy stuff (upload? download?) with a thumb drive. Just wondering if there's a possibility that ship is related to RealSHIELD's ship, or possibly even the same ship? (I feel the Winter Soldier ship was a destroyer/battleship, but like I said, it's been a while.)
But hey, at least they explained why there was no Koenig brother at the cabin (even they rate better than manning a post where your job is basically "you're a snack in case Hulk gets hungry"). And they moved Skye's plot forward. And we got more Hartley! So, it wasn't completely wasted as an episode. The longer this plot continues though, the more it does terrible things to my opinion of Bobbi and Mack. At least Ward went along with the bad guys because he was, y'know, an evil sociopath, and not just a sucker.
posted by mstokes650 at 2:38 PM on April 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
The thing with the whole "disagreement between good guys" thing is it only works if one side isn't being fucking stupid, and that's so far not been the case here. Really, Adama? You think Nick Fury's habit of keeping secrets had more to do with SHIELD's collapse than a HYDRA conspiracy that literally dated back to the founding of the agency? What percentage of SHIELD was already HYDRA when Fury became director? How much worse could it have been if Fury told his HYDRA-riddled agency everything he was planning and doing? But nope, Adama gives Coulson this "I wonder if you really believe that." as if Coulson was the one who hadn't really thought things through.
But then, RealSHIELD established itself with a lucky success at a completely strategically unsound plan to retake a HYDRA-infested aircraft carrier instead of just sinking it and getting out. And they seem to think that sending in heavily-armed tactical teams is an appropriate response to every single situation, be it philosophical disagreements with Coulson or vague ill-defined concerns about Skye. (And what were they going to do after icing her? Where are you going to put her that's safer than a Banner-designed, Hulk-proof cabin in the middle of nowhere?) Hell, during their takeover of Coulson's base they damn near killed their own guy Mack. No mystery why Nick Fury didn't put these folks in charge; even if they are completely above-board and well-meaning, they have demonstrated all the strategic sense of a four-year old with a baseball bat.
I do want to re-watch the Winter Soldier, now, though. Haven't seen it since it was in the theater, but I recall their early mission was to free hostages aboard a ship; Cap got in a fight with Batroc and Black Widow had some kind of a secret other mission to do secret spy stuff (upload? download?) with a thumb drive. Just wondering if there's a possibility that ship is related to RealSHIELD's ship, or possibly even the same ship? (I feel the Winter Soldier ship was a destroyer/battleship, but like I said, it's been a while.)
But hey, at least they explained why there was no Koenig brother at the cabin (even they rate better than manning a post where your job is basically "you're a snack in case Hulk gets hungry"). And they moved Skye's plot forward. And we got more Hartley! So, it wasn't completely wasted as an episode. The longer this plot continues though, the more it does terrible things to my opinion of Bobbi and Mack. At least Ward went along with the bad guys because he was, y'know, an evil sociopath, and not just a sucker.
posted by mstokes650 at 2:38 PM on April 1, 2015 [3 favorites]
I really liked this episode! Great action, nice plotting, and good character development, imo. Esp. with Skye's arc.
I thought Coulson's banter with Adama was nicely to the point: "So yeah, I know who you are. Looked for you after the Fall, couldn't find you. Could have used a good dude like you back then. Why didn't you pick up a phone instead of sending me two spies?"
Based upon Adama's obvious distaste for Coulson's alien DNA (and distrust of his possible non-human allegiances--after all, he didn't seem to entertain the idea that Coulson was Hydra) and his very keen interest in the Index (and not just/primarily the passwords for the off-shore accounts stashed in the Toolbox), I am starting to wonder if RealSHIELD (tm) will end up being the rallying point for MCU's anti-Inhuman organization (SWORD???), aligning with Various World Governments in Civil War and calling for superhero/Inhuman/gifted registration.
Wait Wait. Is HYDRA compartmentalized, or do they know each other?
Based upon the chit chat between the bad guys during the ending of The Winter Soldier (where we see Loki's glow stick of doom and the twins in the basement), it sounded to me like Hydra is definitely compartmentalized. Many heads, some don't know what the heck the others are up to and some are actively in competition with one another.
just wondering if there's a possibility that ship is related to RealSHIELD's ship, or possibly even the same ship?
That ship was the Lemurian Star, iirc.
posted by skye.dancer at 6:52 PM on April 1, 2015
I thought Coulson's banter with Adama was nicely to the point: "So yeah, I know who you are. Looked for you after the Fall, couldn't find you. Could have used a good dude like you back then. Why didn't you pick up a phone instead of sending me two spies?"
Based upon Adama's obvious distaste for Coulson's alien DNA (and distrust of his possible non-human allegiances--after all, he didn't seem to entertain the idea that Coulson was Hydra) and his very keen interest in the Index (and not just/primarily the passwords for the off-shore accounts stashed in the Toolbox), I am starting to wonder if RealSHIELD (tm) will end up being the rallying point for MCU's anti-Inhuman organization (SWORD???), aligning with Various World Governments in Civil War and calling for superhero/Inhuman/gifted registration.
Wait Wait. Is HYDRA compartmentalized, or do they know each other?
Based upon the chit chat between the bad guys during the ending of The Winter Soldier (where we see Loki's glow stick of doom and the twins in the basement), it sounded to me like Hydra is definitely compartmentalized. Many heads, some don't know what the heck the others are up to and some are actively in competition with one another.
just wondering if there's a possibility that ship is related to RealSHIELD's ship, or possibly even the same ship?
That ship was the Lemurian Star, iirc.
posted by skye.dancer at 6:52 PM on April 1, 2015
Yup, Lemurian Star was another SHIELD ship that was in charge of launching the targeting satellites for the helicarrier fleet's pinpoint-accurate death-lasers, the same helicarriers that got pwned by HYDRA immediately prior to launch. Meanwhile, Iliad was elsewhere, and carrying a different (as yet undisclosed) cargo that the Real!SHIELDers prevented the HYDRA forces from stealing.
posted by Strange Interlude at 7:13 PM on April 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Strange Interlude at 7:13 PM on April 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
And how exactly is REALSHIELD keeping the aircraft (heli?) carrier a secret? You need fuel for the planes, food for the people, and you're kinda really big. How is it that Talbot and the government folks haven't noticed them yet?
My guess is they're funded/supported by the remnants of the World Security Council. Adama invokes the WSC during his conversation with Coulson.
posted by skye.dancer at 7:41 PM on April 1, 2015
My guess is they're funded/supported by the remnants of the World Security Council. Adama invokes the WSC during his conversation with Coulson.
posted by skye.dancer at 7:41 PM on April 1, 2015
It's also possible that Coulson!SHIELD and Real!SHIELD could both be supported by separate networks of secret financial skullduggery -- hidden botnets skimming invisible chunks of interest off of transactions all over the world. Fury's toolbox probably had the keys to one set of rainy-day financial resources, and Gonzalez's people might have gained control of a few others.
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:42 PM on April 1, 2015
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:42 PM on April 1, 2015
And they seem to think that sending in heavily-armed tactical teams is an appropriate response to every single situation, be it philosophical disagreements with Coulson or vague ill-defined concerns about Skye. (And what were they going to do after icing her? Where are you going to put her that's safer than a Banner-designed, Hulk-proof cabin in the middle of nowhere?)
Really that was more sloppy writing than stupidity; the smart thing to do is leave her there unless she gets tipped off and runs. They could have added one simple line about "we have to assume she's being warned right now; go lock her down till this is done" and it would have been strategically appropriate.
Or they could have been unclear on who might be there with her. Securing it makes good sense and if they had given us any reason to think they have good sense we could just take it as a given. Too bad...
posted by phearlez at 8:08 AM on April 2, 2015
Really that was more sloppy writing than stupidity; the smart thing to do is leave her there unless she gets tipped off and runs. They could have added one simple line about "we have to assume she's being warned right now; go lock her down till this is done" and it would have been strategically appropriate.
Or they could have been unclear on who might be there with her. Securing it makes good sense and if they had given us any reason to think they have good sense we could just take it as a given. Too bad...
posted by phearlez at 8:08 AM on April 2, 2015
And they seem to think that sending in heavily-armed tactical teams is an appropriate response to every single situation, be it philosophical disagreements with Coulson or vague ill-defined concerns about Skye.
It sounds like this is mirror to the BSG story where the Peagus was found, but its crew was harder and nastier, because they their commander, Admiral Cain, was personally betrayed by the Cylons, and she took that...personally.
If Coulson had been found injured with a crippling wound behind a table, the last person standing after literally having to fight for his life, he might have a different way of operating.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:15 AM on April 2, 2015
It sounds like this is mirror to the BSG story where the Peagus was found, but its crew was harder and nastier, because they their commander, Admiral Cain, was personally betrayed by the Cylons, and she took that...personally.
If Coulson had been found injured with a crippling wound behind a table, the last person standing after literally having to fight for his life, he might have a different way of operating.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:15 AM on April 2, 2015
It seems like really sloppy writing that the guys who were just betrayed by the big bad evil think that the best way to manage a Coulson who they think may not be at the top of his game is to infiltrate his organization (full of people they know to be good guys) and then assault their base with storm troopers.
Well, sloppy writing or realSHIELD are realSTUPID.
posted by dazed_one at 1:48 PM on April 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Well, sloppy writing or realSHIELD are realSTUPID.
posted by dazed_one at 1:48 PM on April 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
I can't argue with Skye's decision to go with Gordon because her alternatives were not just crappy
And then of course she's going to find out her new friends include Dad and Raina. And I don't think this is the sort of group to let people leave once they've seen the truth.
posted by happyroach at 12:11 AM on April 3, 2015
And then of course she's going to find out her new friends include Dad and Raina. And I don't think this is the sort of group to let people leave once they've seen the truth.
posted by happyroach at 12:11 AM on April 3, 2015
I'm a bit concerned that Gordon may teach Skye to wield Story-Breaker Power.
posted by klarck at 4:10 AM on April 3, 2015
posted by klarck at 4:10 AM on April 3, 2015
I enjoyed this episode, but boy R.E.A.L. S.H.I.E.L.D. turns out to be a disappointment. My take on it is it's just some irregulars who happened to have lucked into capturing an aircraft carrier while operating robotically on some previous plan Fury put in place. And that Bobbie and Mack are chumps. Maybe it will all turn out to be more interesting but so far they haven't really set up Gonzales to be much of a leader.
Brandon Blatcher beat me to the comparison to the Pegasus stories of Battlestar Galactica (both original and new). It's really a bit too on-the-nose given Olmos' participation in both shows. But the Pegasus story in NuBSG ended up being one of the best in the series, including the kick-ass but ultimately depraved woman running the show there. I fear this variant of the story may be a weak alternative.
posted by Nelson at 8:00 AM on April 3, 2015
Brandon Blatcher beat me to the comparison to the Pegasus stories of Battlestar Galactica (both original and new). It's really a bit too on-the-nose given Olmos' participation in both shows. But the Pegasus story in NuBSG ended up being one of the best in the series, including the kick-ass but ultimately depraved woman running the show there. I fear this variant of the story may be a weak alternative.
posted by Nelson at 8:00 AM on April 3, 2015
Everything's better with Michelle Forbes.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 8:34 AM on April 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 8:34 AM on April 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
My take on it is it's just some irregulars who happened to have lucked into capturing an aircraft carrier while operating robotically on some previous plan Fury put in place.
Well, yeah, that's their backstory, but the lesson they took from that experience is that Fury completely mishandled the agency and the last thing the world needs is for SHIELD to come back under his handpicked successor, which is an entirely reasonable argument to make. I mean, yeah, Coulson & Co. are the protagonists so they'll turn out to be the kind of Real Upstanding Heroes who can make it work, but on a purely philosophical level Team EJO makes some valid points. Plus democratizing SHIELD makes a pretty good follow-up to the ending of Winter Soldier.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:05 AM on April 3, 2015
Well, yeah, that's their backstory, but the lesson they took from that experience is that Fury completely mishandled the agency and the last thing the world needs is for SHIELD to come back under his handpicked successor, which is an entirely reasonable argument to make. I mean, yeah, Coulson & Co. are the protagonists so they'll turn out to be the kind of Real Upstanding Heroes who can make it work, but on a purely philosophical level Team EJO makes some valid points. Plus democratizing SHIELD makes a pretty good follow-up to the ending of Winter Soldier.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:05 AM on April 3, 2015
Team Adama doesn't make much sense. Gonzales is worried about Coulson being compromised, but he's not worried about Mack, who actually attacked his teammates? Sounds like someone has a god complex and his playing favorites.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:23 AM on April 3, 2015
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:23 AM on April 3, 2015
I think Galactica Shield may be something of a red herring, actually. Something to just disrupt and preoccupy Shield until the Inhumans become the real threat. Or maybe the discovery of an actual society of powered beings will ramp up the paranoia of NuShield until a war is imminent.
Which could all tie into Tony wanting to build a bunch of killer robots. I mean, aside from general principles
posted by happyroach at 10:31 AM on April 3, 2015
Which could all tie into Tony wanting to build a bunch of killer robots. I mean, aside from general principles
posted by happyroach at 10:31 AM on April 3, 2015
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Coulson's SHIELD just looks incompetent right now.
I can't argue with Skye's decision to go with Gordon because her alternatives were not just crappy, but organizations currently earning their reputation for being distrusted. At least he seemed to know what the hell he was doing.
posted by instead of three wishes at 10:05 AM on April 1, 2015