The Walking Dead: Start to Finish

November 29, 2015 7:19 PM - Season 6, Episode 8

With no way out, Rick and the people of Alexandria must defend the community against the invading herd.
posted by komara (95 comments total)

Kind of strange how little happened in this episode — despite all the action, things didn't advance very much. Anyhow, it gives me an excuse to link to one of my favorite Youtube videos.
posted by gubo at 7:45 PM on November 29, 2015 [1 favorite]

Two locked garage doors, two massive eyerolls.

The KORL!/Asshole,Jr. garage door was locked from inside the garage. Erm, what? Why? Are all the doors in the neighbourhood equipped with sleepwalker locks that require a key to unlock them from inside the house, or was this lock merely installed backwards? Or was it maybe just a poorly thought out plot device? Nah, definitely gotta be the first thing. RICK: "Stand back, everyone, I'll smash this lock with a hatchet, which I have, because, um, stuff, endangering us all, instead of asking the lady who lives here if I can borrow her key for a sec. Plots don't propel themselves, people!". Ugh.

Garage door number two: "Lockpicking is in my skillset." Okay, dude, but not with one straightened-out paperclip it's not. Maybe try using something else. YOU ARE IN A GARAGE. Maybe there's tools? Maybe the writers could write them in for you?
posted by Sys Rq at 8:05 PM on November 29, 2015 [10 favorites]

Paraphrasing... but Coral's "my dad killed your dad.But you know what? Your dad was an asshole!" may be my favorite terrible dialog of the entire series.
posted by gatorae at 8:17 PM on November 29, 2015 [22 favorites]

Paraphrasing, shmaraphrasing. Pretty sure that's the exact wording.

(I literally lol'd at that line.)

(But also now Rick is gonna get shot, right? 'Cause, like...)
posted by Sys Rq at 8:20 PM on November 29, 2015 [1 favorite]

Oh, so NOW they finally remember the zombie guts trick?? Wasted on Ron and fraidycat little brother who maybe should have had his record player taken away during the hiding phase of their terrible plan?

Meanwhile, a giant fuck you to Morgan; as always, Carol is right, even if she sounded unhinged enough during their fight that I'm a little worried about her head injury.

I love how even Deanna suddenly gained the ability to make perfect headshots in her final minutes. Sigh. Oh, show.
posted by TwoStride at 8:30 PM on November 29, 2015 [10 favorites]

I laughed too, although I laughed more when the Wolf jumped up and thunked Morgan in the head. I also laughed like a mean bully at Jessie's pitiful stairchild. I was convinced that his "Mom??"ing at the end was going to get him eaten, before it cut away in a wholly unsatisfying cliffhanger to a similarly unsatisfying half season.
posted by gatorae at 8:31 PM on November 29, 2015 [2 favorites]

This episode was a waste of time. This season has been wildly uneven, all over the map.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:32 PM on November 29, 2015 [1 favorite]

I love how even Deanna suddenly gained the ability to make perfect headshots in her final minutes. Sigh. Oh, show

I get the feeling that between the first scene in the zombie horde and her final (stupid; be quiet, Deanna) scene, someone tried to clue the actress in to the concept of gun recoil and how to fake it, to no avail. Her gun does not kick back the slightest bit, but she was recoiling her head in that last part. Oof.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:46 PM on November 29, 2015 [2 favorites]

Three women (Carol, Deanna & Maggie) fell down while running away from zombies. No ankles were twisted at least, but Deanna somehow managed to fall on the exposed blade of a table saw before getting stealth-bitten.
posted by cardboard at 8:50 PM on November 29, 2015 [15 favorites]

So hey, was anyone counting shots in Deanna's headshot scene? I did not think to count but in hindsight it sounded like six, which means that her plan to end herself didn't go so well.

I can only hope that Rick & Co. have to face Zombie Deanna at some point, whenever this rotten season restarts.
posted by komara at 8:55 PM on November 29, 2015

Meh.

So which of the original Alexandrites are even still alive? The doctor (just abducted though); Rick's blond paramour and her shitty kids; Enid...is that it?

I don't care about Alexandria. It's felt like an extended rest stop the whole time they've been there, not a home.

Just to enumerate the loose ends:

Will Glenn be able to reunite with Maggie? (Obviously yes.)

What will become of Crazy Wolf Guy and his hostage? (Presumably the group will have to rescue her in the second half of the season. I hope they don't kill her off, because I think her character has real potential. And I still don't understand the Wolves' motivations, beyond "be massive dicks so the protagonists have conflict to react to". I think we're overdue for an explanation of what the Wolves are all about.)

Will Ron give up his vendetta against Carl?

Will Enid stop moping and join the community in earnest? Which of Alexandria's two eligible teenage bachelors will win her heart?

What happened to Sasha, Daryl, and Abraham?

Will Fraidy Kid get eaten by the "monsters"? (God I hope so.)

Will Eugene ever use his damn machete for anything?

Honestly, I'm kinda disappointed that they're trying to reclaim Alexandria. I'm ready for a change of scenery. Weren't they still planning to go to the government facility in DC that Eugene had been talking about, even after his deception was revealed? Maybe I'm making that up.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 9:02 PM on November 29, 2015

Oh my god, I totally forgot he had a machete. And the women had guns!

Yeah, pick the lock with a paperclip. Jesus.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:05 PM on November 29, 2015

Three women (Carol, Deanna & Maggie) fell down while running away from zombies. No ankles were twisted at least, but Deanna somehow managed to fall on the exposed blade of a table saw before getting stealth-bitten.

C'mon, Walking Dead writers know women are top heavy, they've seen pictures
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:06 PM on November 29, 2015 [10 favorites]

We did not see Deanna die onscreen, and she wasn't bitten, it was a sawblade, gag me gently with a chainsaw.
posted by Rat Spatula at 9:10 PM on November 29, 2015

I guess that Aaron and his boyfriend are both still alive, as well.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 9:14 PM on November 29, 2015

Ok, I also laughed when the Captive Wolf told the women to throw their guns to him... and Eugene tossed his machete, too. Even the Wolf failed to see you as a threat, Eugene.
posted by TwoStride at 9:16 PM on November 29, 2015 [9 favorites]

Deanna was bitten. Right next to the saw blade wound. They discovered the teeth marks in the bedroom when they were looking her over. That's why she was left with the gun when the group has to take a gut shower and leave.
posted by pearlybob at 9:47 PM on November 29, 2015 [3 favorites]

... oy, this show. It's not without its up sides: I enjoy the big action set pieces. I appreciate the production values on those occasions when they are put to good use - they really have some awesome zombie makeup.

And I usually try to come up with more good stuff to say so that I'm not a total downer, but everything I liked this time was unintentionally funny, like Eugene giving up his machete, or reading by lighter, (wtf?). I really just have nothing, here.

I came away from this mostly feeling the show's complete and total laziness. The unwillingness to put five minutes' worth of thought into anything except for those big action set pieces they sometimes do really well. This was almost a complete waste of time.

I was particularly disappointed in the Carol/Morgan conflict. They're the two most interesting characters on the show, with a philosophical disagreement that should rightfully be at the heart of the story, and *that* was the best TWD could do with their conflict? They knock each other out, the Wolf kidnaps one of the few interesting Alexandrites without harming anyone else?

Just... argh. I want to Kickstarter hiring a five year old to look over their scripts for them.
posted by mordax at 9:51 PM on November 29, 2015 [9 favorites]

ugh of course all the women somehow managed to trip over literally nothing and fall down for moronic manufactured moments of drama

even eugene got to look marginally competent for once but lol lady fall down because lady lol lol
posted by poffin boffin at 10:27 PM on November 29, 2015 [11 favorites]

also is filthy toothcrust wolf dude the same actor that played mayor stephen fry's filthy toothcrust henchman in battle of the five armies or what

has he not brushed his teeth since then
posted by poffin boffin at 10:34 PM on November 29, 2015

also is filthy toothcrust wolf dude the same actor that played mayor stephen fry's filthy toothcrust henchman in battle of the five armies or what

A quick imdbing suggests he is not. Heck if I can find filthy toothcrust henchman there though - I couldn't even tell Grumpy from Dopey in that movie.
posted by mordax at 11:25 PM on November 29, 2015 [1 favorite]

Here's a multiple choice quiz. You are in a truck. You come upon a gang of thugs on motorcycles. They have big but regular guns. You have some ridiculous looking rocket launcher or something like that. They demand you get out of your truck and make threats about slicing you in half. Do you...

A. Get out of the truck to have a nice chat with these reasonable folk, or
B. Run them down with your giant truck, or
C. Blow them up with your military grade weapons?

If you picked A, congratulations, you have some hope of becoming a character on TWD.
posted by ktkt at 2:25 AM on November 30, 2015 [10 favorites]

Almost all of the female characters are routinely shown as far more capable than Eugene. Even Beth, as crappily as her character was written, was able to hold her own against walkers. In fact Eugene is regularly rescued and/or dressed down by women.

That said, if people are going to be tripping all willy-nilly, it'd be nice to see it happen to Rick or Glenn or Daryl once in a while.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 5:26 AM on November 30, 2015

Also, filthy toothcrust guy looks exactly like this burnout guy I knew back in my more bohemian days (down to the toothcrust and the unnerving smile). It's legit disturbing when he appears onscreen.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 5:36 AM on November 30, 2015 [1 favorite]

The tripping annoyed me and continues to because they're just being flagrantly lazy with the writing. At least come up with something believable that happens. Not that that is much better, but jeez. This really was an unfulfilling mid-season finale. Michonne hasn't done much besides be around, and Coral has gotten way too much time to traipse around with that hat on.

Why on earth would Rosita give up her weapon? Didn't they give her a meager backstory where she had been in armed forces of some kind, along with Abraham? Under normal circumstances in a regular world, I get not wanting to risk taking out the wolf guy. But uh, haven't you spent the last two years or so shooting human figures in the head?!? You can't shoot this guy in the head from 8 feet away, when that's what you have been doing every other day for months and years leading up to this moment? Rosita should have been written to watch Tara put her weapon down, look at Tara like "are you serious?" then turn back to the wolf and shoot him dead with one shot. That would have been SO satisfying for me.
posted by cashman at 6:58 AM on November 30, 2015 [17 favorites]

Or Tara, with fucks on backorder, could have dropped him. Why didn't they drop him?
posted by Rat Spatula at 7:44 AM on November 30, 2015 [9 favorites]

Awful episode, even for TWD.

The only thing that makes watching entire seasons of this show is knowing that they're building toward something awesome happening at mid season and season finales. Wtf happened here? Your daring cliffhanger is the kid saying "mom" while walking through a hoard of zombies? Morgan took on a whole contingent of Wolves but struggled fighting a barely conscious Carol? Rosita can't headshot the eff out of that Wolf?

You come up with ridiculously contrived scenarios to put characters no one likes in danger but can't come up with something better than "she tripped and hit her head" for Carol?

Aaron and Maggie still haven't told everyone else, "hey, there's a way out of the town through the sewage pipes... we could go out and create a diversion to pull away the walkers? Or just, you know, escape."
posted by 2ht at 7:56 AM on November 30, 2015 [3 favorites]

I have been rewatching Fringe and what this show needs is an Olivia Dunham. You know what Olivia Dunham would have done when the Wolf took Denise hostage? She would have shot him in the head.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:59 AM on November 30, 2015 [8 favorites]

I said aloud, "Tara's an awesome shot. She'll shoot him in the head... What? No!" They just established last week that she can head-shoot walkers while hanging from a wall! And she just hands over the weapon! And what about Rick and Michonne stopping to have extended chats with Deanna while the zombies are breaking in?? But for the good parts:
Absolutely loved Carl's "your dad was an asshole" line. And I thought Jessie did some good ass-kicking this week, so much so I think I can remember her name now!
posted by areaperson at 8:14 AM on November 30, 2015 [1 favorite]

I thought that the clumsy, dopey phrasing of Carl's non-speech speech was perfect for words coming out of the mouth of a teenager to another teenager. It was lame, yeah. But criminy, he's like 14 or 15, that is entirely accurate.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:30 AM on November 30, 2015 [2 favorites]

I keep trying to gather up the energy to critique this episode but there's just so much wrong and it was so boring that I can't seem to get around to doing it. I did think about this question:

"So which of the original Alexandrites are even still alive? The doctor (just abducted though); Rick's blond paramour and her shitty kids; Enid...is that it?"

while I was in the shower, and I came up with the following list:

- Helper Construction Man Who Helps Rick Build Shit
- Deanna's Son, Useless
- Guy Who Invites People (and maybe his husband, who I couldn't pick out of a lineup if you paid me)
- Inattentive Arsenal Monitor Housewife Lady

and in the interest of fairness I feel I should point out that both Rick and Helper Construction Man Who Helps Rick Build Shit started off this episode lying on the ground because a tower fell over somewhere within earshot, so I think that leaves us with Comically Clumsy Women 3, Comically Clumsy Men 2.
posted by komara at 10:08 AM on November 30, 2015 [5 favorites]

I loved it. It is exactly what this show has been since the first episode of season two; awfully written melodrama with guts. Deanna's silent scream as the zeds approach her, Carl's crappy and yet well delivered one-liner, the sudden flopping disease that seems to infect women and *holy hell* we heard Rick shout a "CORAL!" for the first time since he was all bound up on a couch.

Moan all you want nay-sayers but remember what you're watching and if you watched this far then you know exactly what you are watching. It isn't going to get better. It is going to get more ridiculous. And THAT is why you watch. Accept it. Embrace it, even. Roll around in it and cover your sheets in it and then walk among the blind critics.

Want good? Take other mefites' recommendations and watch Z Nation. People make reasonable decisions on that show (like an enormous cheese wheel death roll).
posted by Johnny Hazard at 10:26 AM on November 30, 2015 [11 favorites]

I thought about Rick and that other dude being on the ground after the tower fell, but that's pretty common after an explosion. Something explodes or falls down goes boom, and people run and jump and fall, then get up.

No, these women again and again are literally just moving from point a to point b, and fall, and hurt themselves bad enough to be incapacitated in one form or another, and there's no reason for them to have fallen. It's a crappy trope.
posted by cashman at 10:29 AM on November 30, 2015

I had completely forgotten that Tara was hanging off a wall, head-shotting moving zombies (one-handed) from like thirty feet away last episode.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:34 AM on November 30, 2015 [1 favorite]

When they dress up in their gutsuits I am always reminded of the Burghers of Calais.
posted by sylvanshine at 11:09 AM on November 30, 2015 [1 favorite]

I was hoping Denise would grab the gun and shoot the wolf while Morgan and Carol were fighting. Is that crusty guy the head wolf in charge (HWIC)? Is he Negan? I don't read the comics, but he seems pretty freaky, and potentially a main villan.
posted by areaperson at 11:11 AM on November 30, 2015

I sincerely expected drool to run down Denise's chin when she saw that Wolf's infected side wound. Tiny syringes full of pus were practically dancing around her head!

Morgan, WTF, mate? Your bo staff wizardry doesn't mean shit if your principles keep getting people murdered. Let's look at the numbers:

DIRECTLY SAVED BY MORGAN (e.g., presumed living at this moment in the storyline)
1. Rick
2. Coral
3. Darryl
4. Aaron
5-6. Mr. & Mrs. SoupBullet
7. Wolf 1/Meth Teeth

DIRECTLY KILLED BY MORGAN
1. Papa Wood-Straggler, stabbed through the neck by Morgan
2. Strangled Wood-Straggler, choked to death by Morgan only to reanimate and kill Eastman a few days later

INDIRECTLY KILLED BY MORGAN
1. Duane
2. Eastman
3. Wolf 2/escaped Alexandria only to be shot by Rick at the RV
4. Wolf 3/shot by Carol during the Alexandria attack after Morgan lets him go
5. Female blonde Wolf 4, escaped Alexandria after Morgan subdued her and later shot by Rick at the RV

I mean, when I look at the numbers, Morgan's philosophy is basically a wash in regards to preserving human life; when you look at how it's affected the number of sane post-Z survivors he's encountered, the consequences skew markedly downward.

That younger blonde kid with PTSD is 100% getting eaten in the mid-season premiere. Even Judith was side-eyeing him from under her baby meat curtain camo, her all staying silent and shit like a good little mini-Ricklet should.

I'm seriously disappointed Ron didn't shoot anyone with Chekhov's pistol. Here's hoping those bullets they stopped to pick up while running away from the Herd get put to use in the spring premiere.

Did anyone else notice that Maggie's ladder/ledge scene was a callback to Glenn's prison tower ledge scene in s4 ep 10, "Inmates"?

I feel certain he'll rescue her with Enid's help, and frankly, that's the best thing I saw in this episode. Well, besides confirmation that it was Eugene saying "help" on the walkie, which I posited last week.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 12:11 PM on November 30, 2015 [1 favorite]

And THAT is why you watch. Accept it. Embrace it, even. Roll around in it and cover your sheets in it and then walk among the blind critics.

Want good? Take other mefites' recommendations and watch Z Nation.

Eh. I watch it for stuff like when they were in the big box store and it literally rained zombies at the opening of S4. That was inventive, well shot and genuinely something I hadn't seen before. It is becoming increasingly clear to me that I only need to watch the first three episodes of any given season to get that though - they seem to lack the budget and work ethic to do that anywhere but a season premiere. I was *really* expecting something good like that here, as it was definitely the moment.

That said, yes, Z Nation blows this completely out of the water. I've said that many times, and I will agree again here - Z Nation is even better at world building. I'm not fond of the current arc with the Zeroes, but they are still positing that the Mexican cartels would prevail against shambling mindless hordes of zombies, and... yes. Yes, I think they would. Z Nation also posits that human civilization would survive in lots of enclaves, many of which would not be cannibals/Governor-ed/Hufflepuffs (sorry, Alexandrites).

And they still have a smart, capable POC woman in charge of their merry band, and I would still pick their group to weather the zombie apocalypse with. (I am TEAM CAROL, but she still lets Rick make the calls. Warren wouldn't let him decide what the group should have for lunch.)

That should be TWD's new catchphrase: 'Writing so lazy it would shame The Asylum, proud creators of Sharknado.'
posted by mordax at 12:35 PM on November 30, 2015 [2 favorites]

The Walking Dead: a show without consequences.

* Glen takes a chance on a chump who tries to kill him, gets cornered by zombies while standing on a dumpster, but no worries, just crawl under the dumpster and the zombies magically quit.

* Morgan takes a chance on a chump who tries to kill him then gets knocked out and at risk of death, but don't worry nothing fatal, the wolf leaves without killing any major characters (Morgan, Carol, Rosita, Tara, or Eugene).

The plot armor is so strong that even the action is boring now. In a real, consequential world, the wolf would have killed Carol, Morgan and nurse then ran off. Instead, we get two armed Amazonian warriors and Eugene bursting in out of literally nowhere (I figured Alexandria was on complete curfew at that moment). Okay, maybe there's a standoff and a shootout. Nope, instead the two killer women suddenly lose all strategy and completely fail to negotiate/control the situation. Okay, maybe now the Wolf kills them all, like he said he would. Nope. Somehow he audited courses from the Morgan Eastman Reform School and shows some mercy, leaving five main characters but abducting a minor no-name.

These writers are terrible.
posted by rambletamble at 1:00 PM on November 30, 2015 [4 favorites]

Deanna was bitten. Right next to the saw blade wound.
Okay, so, and this goes back to my sloppiness comment from last time - why bother having her get wounded by a saw blade? The only reason, I thought, was to introduce ambiguity about whether she'd been bitten. Otherwise, why not just have her get scratched running past a chain-link fence, or on the latch of a bathroom stall door? Why linger on the fact that it was a sawblade?

Did anyone else notice that Maggie's ladder/ledge scene was a callback...
I guess I have trouble distinguishing 'callback' from 'making it easy on ourselves by shooting basically the same scene again'.

bursting in out of literally nowhere
Come on now, be fair, that was clearly explained: They took refuge in an adjacent basement, and Eugene picked the lock* at the exact moment Methmouth grabbed Denise.


* - That purtickkeler skill is well within his dough-mane of cogitation**
** - Ladies, I sure do love picking locks.
posted by Rat Spatula at 1:26 PM on November 30, 2015 [6 favorites]

The Walking Dead: a show without consequences.

Same reason I gave up on Doctor Who.

These writers are terrible.

Same reason I gave up on Doctor Who.
posted by juiceCake at 1:44 PM on November 30, 2015 [2 favorites]

You know, the intro with the creepy swarming ants was pretty inspired, actually. They should try more scenes without dialog. "I will kill you to kill him because I don't want anyone else to die," indeed.
posted by oulipian at 3:40 PM on November 30, 2015 [9 favorites]

The reviews on this are pretty brutal:

Zack Handlen, AV Club: "an empty, calorie- free hour of television, providing no new information."
Alan Sepinwall, HitFix: "shockingly little tension or energy to anything happening."
Todd VanDerWerff, Vox: "an unusually listless and muddled midseason finale."
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 3:43 PM on November 30, 2015 [2 favorites]

the intro with the creepy swarming ants was pretty inspired

Although it did pretty much scream "HEY LOOK THESE ANTS ARE A METAPHOR FOR THE ZOMBIES", no?

The tracking shot down the corridor to PTSD-kid's door, soundtracked by his old-time music, felt very much like a Kubrick homage to me.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 3:47 PM on November 30, 2015

People have already commented on the fainting-goat inspired ladies of the TWD, so I am just going to pretend I made a gif of them slinking past the couch-zombie with the caption "I'm on the list...".
posted by Iteki at 4:05 PM on November 30, 2015

When they were getting dressed in guts, I kept yelling at the TV, "Uh, what about your other son, Sam?! His music is still playing!" I was convinced that she'd just forgotten about him and that if he hadn't come out they would have just left. I don't understand her parenting technique. Was she just going to wait until everyone else was totally ready, then grab him at the last minute? Wouldn't walking in covered in guts freak him out more? You'd think she'd want to get him prepared, maybe even let him see the dead walkers so as to lessen his fear of their guts. I'm also really afraid for poor Judith's health. It can't be good for a baby to be directly inhaling walker guts. Aren't their immune systems weak?
posted by Saxon Kane at 5:37 PM on November 30, 2015 [2 favorites]

It wasn't much of a mid-season finale, but as mediocre as it's been so far really the only thing that bothers me is that they've strung us along with the Wolves now for about a year and half now, and haven't bothered to give them any backstory, motivation or goals. I think it's clear now that the reason they put W on their forehead is just to remind us that they exist as a group.
posted by skewed at 7:42 PM on November 30, 2015 [7 favorites]

Kirkman and Hardwick on the talking dead said there is some other group, I guess these Negan people, since I didn't read the comics, who are about to show up. I bet the sole purpose for the wolves is for Negan to bat them aside like a chew toy to show how big of a baddie he is.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:11 PM on November 30, 2015 [1 favorite]

Hufflepuffs (sorry, Alexandrites).

You take that back ! Hufflepuffs are awesome.
posted by Pendragon at 12:53 AM on December 1, 2015 [2 favorites]

Did anyone else notice that Maggie's ladder/ledge scene was a callback to Glenn's prison tower ledge scene in s4 ep 10, "Inmates"?

I guess I have trouble distinguishing 'callback' from 'making it easy on ourselves by shooting basically the same scene again'.


Exactly. I think they're just incredibly lazy. When they were covered in guts, I kept thinking "Why aren't their faces covered?" Didn't they have faces covered when they first did this? So zombies smell their freshly-washed Alexandrian faces? The mom stood out so blond among the zombies that they should have noticed her.

Nothing's really consistent unless it's convenient. Like the speed/agility of the walkers, the level of peril characters are in, the character's own badassery (ugh, take our guns, please!).

Also, did anyone recoil in horror when Morgan slammed Carol? She's like 50, probably has osteoporosis, going smack on a hard concrete floor. Nurse girl was the only one who could potentially do the hip replacement.
posted by rambletamble at 2:04 AM on December 1, 2015 [5 favorites]

You take that back ! Hufflepuffs are awesome.

Hmm. I was thinking of this video when I made that comment, but the girl depicted there is clearly five to ten times more competent to survive a zombie apocalypse than most of the Alexandrites we've seen, so point taken.
posted by mordax at 2:07 AM on December 1, 2015 [1 favorite]

I kept thinking "Why aren't their faces covered?"

I was thinking the same thing, especially looking at Coral's glistening sweaty face. So zombies can only detect smells from fabric???
posted by p3t3 at 4:17 AM on December 1, 2015

I thought he slammed her over his knee and, yes, recoiled like Dana's guns oughta. FTR, I believe their medic (Denise) is actually a doctor, just a doctor of psychiatry, but she did start her training on a surgery track.
posted by Iteki at 4:23 AM on December 1, 2015 [2 favorites]

The face thing didn't bother me. I'm guessing that if you go out right now and get a cadaver that has been rotting all summer in the south, chop it up and smear it all over your clothes leaving your face free, the smell is still going to be powerful and all kinds of wretched.
posted by cashman at 6:09 AM on December 1, 2015 [1 favorite]

"FTR, I believe their medic (Denise) is actually a doctor, just a doctor of psychiatry, but she did start her training on a surgery track."

Yes! Thank you! Two different people called her a nurse and one person called her a housewife. She's an MD. A psychiatrist. The show explained this.

That's basically all I have to say. I thought while watching this that this may be where I give up the show. Not out of any strong emotion, but more out of growing indifference and annoyance. It's just the same old shit over and over.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 7:24 AM on December 1, 2015 [8 favorites]

Since somebody already said the N-word, my guess is that Negan is secretly in command of the Wolves (he will don a false moustache and change his name to "Wegan"), and that he uses the threat of the roaming parties of Wolves to sell his 'security' to Alexandria-like burbclaves.
posted by Rat Spatula at 7:46 AM on December 1, 2015 [1 favorite]

Since somebody already said the N-word, my guess is that Negan is secretly in command of the Wolves (he will don a false moustache and change his name to "Wegan"), and that he uses the threat of the roaming parties of Wolves to sell his 'security' to Alexandria-like burbclaves.

FWIW, the Negan mention isn't a spoiler. There was a post-credits scene introducing Negan's group. Unfortunately AMC in its infinite wisdom buried that scene in one of the commercial breaks of Into the Badlands, so you'd miss it unless you also watched Talking Dead, where they replayed it.
posted by mama casserole at 8:38 AM on December 1, 2015 [1 favorite]

Oh, sorry, I thought the scenes-from-next-week clips were considered spoilers, like with Game of Thrones.
posted by Rat Spatula at 8:57 AM on December 1, 2015 [2 favorites]

It wasn't a "next week on"; it was a part of this episode. It just came way later because AMC really wants you to watch that other show.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:59 AM on December 1, 2015 [5 favorites]

Denise is zombie food is what she is. The Wolf will wound her and use her to distract the zombies so he will escape.

Also, if there were any consistency in the writing, the Wolf would have shot Morgan, Carol, Tara, Rosita, and Eugene (was he there?) in the head and left. But I know better than to expect consistent writing from TWD at this point. The plot armor is strong though. How long has it been since an non-Alexandrian has died now? Was it Noah? I'm guessing we're gonna lose a person or two in the next half of the season, possibly a fan fave.
posted by entropicamericana at 10:01 AM on December 1, 2015 [1 favorite]

How long has it been since an non-Alexandrian has died now? Was it Noah?

Jeez, I think so, going by chronological/in-universe time at least. By airdate the most recent non-Alexandrian, non-Wolf death is Eastman.

The only way I can make sense of the Wolf not shooting them all is if he's not a good shot. It seems like the Wolves for whatever reason don't have a lot of firearms, so maybe he thought hostage-taking and gun-pointing would be a sure thing while firing and missing could just give them a chance to overpower him. But this is TWD where people have mad sharpshooter skills with hardly any practice so that kind of falls apart too.
posted by mama casserole at 12:33 PM on December 1, 2015 [2 favorites]

I kept thinking "Why aren't their faces covered?"

Meh. They'll do it on the night.
posted by Dr. Zira at 1:21 PM on December 1, 2015 [2 favorites]

Only speculation, but I think Glenn will be the next member of the group to die. I think they pulled the gimmick with him "dying" and coming back only to fuck with the audience.
posted by Saxon Kane at 4:25 PM on December 1, 2015 [2 favorites]

^ seconded
posted by komara at 4:49 PM on December 1, 2015

I thought that might happen in the same episode as his escape. It would have worked there. It's too late for it now.

So of course they'll do it.
posted by Sys Rq at 4:52 PM on December 1, 2015 [3 favorites]

what if they all die and the rest of the season is just staggering zombies doing stupid people in infomercial things
posted by poffin boffin at 5:05 PM on December 1, 2015 [6 favorites]

Yeah, no, bleev me, I know exactly why they bury the Post-Credit Pre-Cold-Open Snap-Screen Dual-Definition Advil Walking Dead Decapitation Moment of the Day ten minutes into the thing I am not going to start watching no matter what.

But it used to be SCENES FROM NEXT WEEK'S EPISODE OF, THE WALKING DEAHEHEAD, right? And then they switched to this new dealy. And with Game of Thrones, it was contenta non wanta, because the Streaming Cable-Cuttrons did not get to see those.

But thanks for splaining.
posted by Rat Spatula at 7:29 PM on December 1, 2015 [1 favorite]

Also, me three.
posted by Rat Spatula at 8:17 PM on December 1, 2015

But it used to be SCENES FROM NEXT WEEK'S EPISODE OF, THE WALKING DEAHEHEAD, right? And then they switched to this new dealy. And with Game of Thrones, it was contenta non wanta, because the Streaming Cable-Cuttrons did not get to see those.

I'm sorry. What?
posted by dogwalker at 8:31 PM on December 1, 2015 [2 favorites]

So, among the many issues (no headshots when you are that close to the hostage taker?) I was peeved by Deanna shooting six rounds out of a five round gun. I was counting to see if she kept one for herself. But then they went straight to cowboy town and let her unload her (not-so) six shooter.
It's the little things.
posted by Seamus at 9:05 PM on December 1, 2015

In the Game of Thrones FanFare threads, there was a specific prohibition against talking about "Scenes from Next Week," because HBO only showed those scenes via cable TV broadcast - they weren't included in HBO's Internet-streamable content (or maybe it was only the torrenters that didn't get them)?

I assumed that the same restriction applied here, but I'm getting the message that it's a more confusing situation now. As I recall, until recently, when the credits would roll at the end of the episode, AMC would start showing Chris Hardwick touting the upcoming Talking Dead, and then they'd have "scenes from next week's episode".

But now instead they're doing longer scenes and calling them prologues, and burying them ten minutes into the kung-fu show they're pushing. So, I guess I still dunno exactly what the rules are for this show.
posted by Rat Spatula at 9:06 PM on December 1, 2015

I keep up with the Walking Dead through, well, not cable, so, uh, yeah, and I didn't see the post-episode showdown with Negan's Kneelers, had to look it up online.
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:10 PM on December 1, 2015

I actually DVRed ItB and I fast forwarded to the first commercial break hoping the "prologue" would make up for the terrible episode. And then they got out of the truck and I'm pretty sure I'm going to give up on this show.
posted by numaner at 9:10 PM on December 1, 2015

because HBO only showed those scenes via cable TV broadcast

No; because they're from the next episode. The FanFare spoiler policy (linked below the comment box) is very clear: "please refrain from discussing events that take place in future episodes." How they're broadcast has nothing to do with it.

That said, I don't know where the annoying addendum to this TWD episode falls -- are AMC really claiming that it was part of the episode even though it was disconnected from it by 15 minutes?
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:12 PM on December 1, 2015 [3 favorites]

Oh, and my guess is that they get out of the fuel truck so that the show can blow it up without killing any of our immortal regulars.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:14 PM on December 1, 2015 [3 favorites]

For what it's worth, I'm watching on Amazon, and the Negan truck scene seemed to just be part of the episode. I agree this live airing business tucked into a later show sounds sketchy and puts it into a grey area spoilerwise.
posted by ktkt at 12:54 AM on December 2, 2015

You know, the intro with the creepy swarming ants was pretty inspired, actually.

I might be a terrible person, but for a moment, I thought we were going to see that they left Little Mr. Never Going Downstairs Again behind with his ant-infested cookies, since he wouldn't go down the stairs and they couldn't exactly drag him along kicking and screaming since that would get them all killed. But no.
posted by ktkt at 1:01 AM on December 2, 2015 [5 favorites]

That said, I don't know where the annoying addendum to this TWD episode falls -- are AMC really claiming that it was part of the episode even though it was disconnected from it by 15 minutes?

This is a really interesting question--I'd say this falls within the episode if you're following the spirit of the spoiler policy. It's included in the purchased and on-demand episode, and my understanding is it's not a preview in the sense that the scene will be repeated in the next episode, though who knows. The actor who tells Daryl that all his stuff are belong to Negan is credited for the episode in IMDb, and the TWD wikia calls "Start to Finish" his first appearance. The official video for the scene is under the heading "Season 6, Episode 8." That said, AMC is calling it a "prologue to the next chapter" while the media are referring to it as a "post-credits scene."
posted by mama casserole at 7:31 AM on December 2, 2015

I'm still disappointed he didn't kill Judith. Also I, mis-read the cookie as a hamburger patty*. Combined with the vegetable wreckage on the empty dinner plate he left out for Mom, I thought they were going for a "meat revulsion" angle. Why is he not eating the cookie? When a kid doesn't eat a cookie, there's typically a very specific reason in my experience. But we have not explored that reason. Is it just to illustrate that he's traumatized? Because we know that. Why only half the cookie? Was he saving it for later? He doesn't seem like a save-half-for-later kind of kid. Or had the ants already carried half of it off? The ants bit it exactly along a diameter?

I remember a show opening from a few seasons back that worked really well - they were on the road and looking for food and not finding any, and they were all listless, there was no dialog, it felt really correct. But that's another thing they dropped on the ground and haven't explored - what's going to happen when you are eating meager helpings of Canned Whatever for the rest of your life, without any actual nutrition? Everybody is running from crisis to crisis in this show without any sign of exhaustion.

The really awful thing about Judith is that you know they're just going to kill her at some point to gin up sympathy/justification for Rick, but it won't work dramatically because she gets less screen time, direct or indirect, than Eugene's hair. What, we're going to watch her grow up? Negan or somebody has to 'adopt' her or something, so we can watch Rick get his vengeance.

*Yeah, yeah, where would they get meat from, whatever, like the writers would think about that...
posted by Rat Spatula at 8:16 AM on December 2, 2015 [3 favorites]

So there is actual content that in order to see I have to watch another show that interests me not in the slightest, pay for online or waste space on my DVR recording the other show? AMC is getting to the point where I'm about to tell them to go hug a fucking root.
posted by Seamus at 9:00 AM on December 2, 2015

No need to pay to see the scene
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:50 AM on December 2, 2015

So there is actual content that in order to see I have to watch another show that interests me not in the slightest, pay for online or waste space on my DVR recording the other show?

Nope.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:50 AM on December 2, 2015

Well, that's better. But it's still manipulative and weird. I sure as hell hope this doesn't become the norm.
posted by Seamus at 10:42 AM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]

Can we all agree that Eugene is a fool for wasting that lighter fluid? Even in overrun Alexandria, efforts to preserve non-renewable materials need to be in effect 100% of the time.

Assuming he's actually smart in the show like he is in the comics, Eugene knows better than that.

I kind of wonder if the Wolf isn't kidnapping Denise as a medical resource for the Wolves? Maybe Papa Wolf/their gang leader needs nursing of some kind?

Rat Spatula, I kind of think that ant-cookie was in reference to Sam preferring Carol's cookie recipe in a previous episode to his own mother's -- S5 ep 13, actually.

So, fuck PTSD Sam, he's definitely gonna die for being a mom-cookie traitor. ;)

Also, there's never been a better time for Judith to die than the mid-season premiere. Chekhov's Baby has carried on living for a really long time now, and she's literally being carried like an albatross around someone else's neck in the middle of a zombie herd. Sure, she's under the meat poncho, but if this doesn't get her screaming and drawing their attention, what would?
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 11:18 AM on December 2, 2015 [2 favorites]

Judith cannot die; her survival is central to the idea of hope and to a potential future.
posted by axismundi at 11:53 AM on December 2, 2015

Based on my watching of this show, Judith MUST die BECAUSE her survival is central to the idea of hope.
posted by dogwalker at 11:58 AM on December 2, 2015 [7 favorites]

I sure as hell hope this doesn't become the norm.

Already is. AMC did similar things to try to (unsuccessfully) flog Low Winter Sun: programming it after Breaking Bad, and pushing the BB "inside the episode" and "next week on" promos into the LWS ad breaks.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 12:01 PM on December 2, 2015 [2 favorites]

The characters are certainly written to be their own worst enemies; showing empathy or humanity almost certainly leads to terrible results. However none of that screams hopelessness like the impossibility of a new generation.

Besides I don't think I can stomach another season long bout of Rick-Grimes-is-crazy... again.
posted by axismundi at 12:41 PM on December 2, 2015 [1 favorite]

I'm only watching this piece of shit because my wife loves things involving the undead and we watch TV together. The only way I can get through this show any more is to treat it like a comedy with each plot hole, failure of logic, forgetting its own rules (zombie guts!), or the plot only advances because someone does something stupid. This episode was the penultimate example.

I wish someone at AMC gave a shit but why should they. They pull in massive numbers just by repeating the same plot lines over and over. No need to get a writing staff with a little skill or imagination. These guys make the unholy trinity of Orci, Kurtzman, and Lindelhof look like Dalton Trumbo
posted by Ber at 2:18 PM on December 2, 2015 [2 favorites]

For what it's worth, I'm watching on Amazon, and the Negan truck scene seemed to just be part of the episode.

This really pisses me off about AMC. My DVR recorded for 2 hours, I thought it was a 2 hour episode, so excited! Then to realize that nope, AMC just forced me to record a TV show I care nothing about, but they had to because they stuck PART OF THE SHOW I GIVE A CRAP ABOUT IN ANOTHER SHOW.

Ugh. So much Ugh.
posted by LizBoBiz at 6:34 AM on December 3, 2015 [1 favorite]

I feel bad - when my wife and I finally watched this episode, she asked "why haven't they used the meat poncho since the beginning?" I replied "because this show has terrible writing," and then she was sad.

Still, we'll come back when the show returns ... on Valentine's Day? Seriously? Weird. Until then, we'll try out Z Nation again, and maybe get back into iZombie.

[And if it makes anyone happy, this season has seen a dip in viewership - last season opened with 17.29 million viewers, and regularly had around 14 million viewers per episode, with fluctuation around that mark, while this season opened with 14.63 million viewers, and this last episode almost got back that high, with 13.98 million viewers -- still, it's more than double the first season viewership of around 5 million viewers]
posted by filthy light thief at 12:12 PM on December 4, 2015 [1 favorite]

Finally got around to watching this episode as I was traveling when it aired. Now for my random thoughts that I know no one gives a fuck about, but here they are anyway. Also, I'm kind of drunk. If that matters.

Thought the cookie scene was kind of neat. Zombies are kind of like ants. Maybe some people haven't thought of that before.

I kind of liked the line where Coral told dumb kid that his dad was an asshole. Also, you can't just say "I'm sorry" after you try to kill somebody.

I also liked the scene where Deana decides to kill some walkers instead of just killing herself, thus making a small decrease in the walker population. (Why did I just call them walkers?)

Yeah I figured that having their faces not covered in zombie guts would lead to them having their faces eaten, but guess not. Also thought annoying kid saying "mom" would get eaten, but guess not.

I really wish Eugene would show some sort of physical courage and kill a zombie in self-defense. Their heads are about as tough as water balloons. You can do it Eugene. I believe in you.

I couldn't believe that either Tara or Rosita didn't just pop a cap in tooth decay spokesman's head. They deliver headshots all day everyday, but when it really counts, they can't do it. Also, everything else we've seen would lead us to believe that Wolfman would just kill them all, given the opportunity, but now he's taking hostages. Get outta here Walking Dead. Get outta here.

I do wish the show was better, but I still enjoy watching it. I think my favorite arc was the governor's almost-redemption arc. Also the one with the plague in the prison. I thought there was some really good music thrown in there. I wish there was more stuff like that. Anybody agree or am I completely wrong here?
posted by A Bad Catholic at 6:35 PM on December 6, 2015 [2 favorites]

Yeah, they're really dragging out the excruciating wait for that golden moment when Eugene finally does something.

Oh wait, he did the thing with the firehose already. So, we're waiting for him to... re-enbraven himself.

Zombies are kind of like ants.
I look forward to Tara's final showdown with the Queen Zombie.

Hey, but who's excited to see what happens next with Father Gabriel, huh?
posted by Rat Spatula at 2:29 PM on December 10, 2015 [1 favorite]

Why yes, I am excited to see what happens to Gabriel. Assuming it is gory and misleading and makes me think he is gone forever, only to miraculously appear alive and ready to undermine our heroes. Oh, wait. No. I'm not.

As for Zombie Queens, did anyone ever listen to the "We're Alive" podcast?
It's still online, though the story line is finished. For any weaknesses that show might have had, the slow reveal of the provenance of the zombies and the consistency of the behavior of both zombies and humans was really nice. So, no "queen" Zombie, but definitely a king zombie sort of thing (but, sadly, not in the rat-king-transglutiminase-food-lab-accident way I was talking about a while back).
posted by Seamus at 12:34 PM on December 11, 2015

Seamus, yes - I'm a backer for the new We're Alive: Lockdown spin-off of the original We're Alive podcast. Loved it, and really looking forward to my new voicemail message from Burt and Scratch.

I'm at least somewhat heartened that it looks like we're going to see a shitload of action from the get-go with the misdseason premiere next spring, but that finale was so anticlimactic, I feel certain viewership numbers are going to start dropping soon.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 8:01 AM on December 14, 2015 [1 favorite]