The Walking Dead: East
March 27, 2016 8:08 PM - Season 6, Episode 15 - Subscribe
Everyone runs away because ... reasons ... and everyone runs after them because ... reasons.
Carol, having found herself reluctant to do any more killing, sets out to kill a bunch of dudes. Morgan and Rick go after her. Morgan gets all "enough with the killing, Rick" like he always is and Rick's like "Eff that and eff you and eff off," but in a nice way. Morgan effs off and Rick goes back to Alexandria for some reason.
Daryl, having found his motorcycle, sets out to find the man who stole his motorcycle, losing his motorcycle in the process. Glenn, Rosita, and Michonne go after him, and everyone gets captured. Obviously.
Carol, having found herself reluctant to do any more killing, sets out to kill a bunch of dudes. Morgan and Rick go after her. Morgan gets all "enough with the killing, Rick" like he always is and Rick's like "Eff that and eff you and eff off," but in a nice way. Morgan effs off and Rick goes back to Alexandria for some reason.
Daryl, having found his motorcycle, sets out to find the man who stole his motorcycle, losing his motorcycle in the process. Glenn, Rosita, and Michonne go after him, and everyone gets captured. Obviously.
I don't think those were barrier cars, I think they were cars for going on runs with. Though I don't know why they would be outside the wall? I thought the closing scenes from last episode established that all those cars were parked inside the wall.
This show has, like, no sense of space, ever, so it's hard to tell.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:14 PM on March 27, 2016
This show has, like, no sense of space, ever, so it's hard to tell.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:14 PM on March 27, 2016
No, it was definitely a barrier car. That's why it had all those spikes in it.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:21 PM on March 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Sys Rq at 8:21 PM on March 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
I am so frustrated with what they are doing with Carol. She obviously knows she will have to keep killing people, hence the cardi-gun she fashioned. The whole 'I need to leave because I love you but I can't kill for you' thing rings kind of hollow when she is still clearly willing to kill for herself. The logic seems inconsistent and uncharacteristic.
posted by gatorae at 8:33 PM on March 27, 2016 [12 favorites]
posted by gatorae at 8:33 PM on March 27, 2016 [12 favorites]
I did lol at the Savior guy being like, 'nice ride, Alexandrite, those weird spikes make it super easy to pick your car out, since we are obviously surveilling you and noticed your weird spike cars. Dumbass.'
posted by gatorae at 8:52 PM on March 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by gatorae at 8:52 PM on March 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
I've had enough of Morgan... It's just the same thing over and over.
Also, most useless opening scene ever.
In the first scene, where Rick is in bed with Michonne and they're sharing an apple, I view it as a Garden of Eden symbol and foreshadowing. They're going to get kicked from Alexandria. And I guess Morgan would be the serpent, preaching an evil philosophy. It doesn't have to be completely logical.. logic needs to be suspended frequently enough in this show. In this universe human flesh has the consistency of jello.
It was a multi-purpose car, a barrier and a get-away car for a quick escape for people already outside. It also symbolizes Carol, she's all spiky n' stuff.
posted by FallowKing at 8:54 PM on March 27, 2016
Also, most useless opening scene ever.
In the first scene, where Rick is in bed with Michonne and they're sharing an apple, I view it as a Garden of Eden symbol and foreshadowing. They're going to get kicked from Alexandria. And I guess Morgan would be the serpent, preaching an evil philosophy. It doesn't have to be completely logical.. logic needs to be suspended frequently enough in this show. In this universe human flesh has the consistency of jello.
It was a multi-purpose car, a barrier and a get-away car for a quick escape for people already outside. It also symbolizes Carol, she's all spiky n' stuff.
posted by FallowKing at 8:54 PM on March 27, 2016
The overconfidence of Rick's gang is now biting them on the ass, obviously.
On the other hand, the Saviors seem to have a similar problem, and demonstrably suck in firefights which hurts their credibility as baddies (although they're awfully good at sneaking around and getting the drop on people, even if they bungle things afterwards).
Why do small roving bands of saviors keep wanting to take a hostage to immediately get inside the gates of Alexandria? It seems fairly stupid and suicidal, as plans go. Voluntarily walking into a hostile, armed community is always going to be a bad situation, hostage or not.
posted by Pryde at 8:56 PM on March 27, 2016
On the other hand, the Saviors seem to have a similar problem, and demonstrably suck in firefights which hurts their credibility as baddies (although they're awfully good at sneaking around and getting the drop on people, even if they bungle things afterwards).
Why do small roving bands of saviors keep wanting to take a hostage to immediately get inside the gates of Alexandria? It seems fairly stupid and suicidal, as plans go. Voluntarily walking into a hostile, armed community is always going to be a bad situation, hostage or not.
posted by Pryde at 8:56 PM on March 27, 2016
This show has, like, no sense of space, ever,
When Rick and Morgan stumble upon the site of Carol's encounter they come from the opposite direction of Alexandria.
posted by FallowKing at 9:02 PM on March 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
When Rick and Morgan stumble upon the site of Carol's encounter they come from the opposite direction of Alexandria.
posted by FallowKing at 9:02 PM on March 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
Daryl, having found his motorcycle, sets out to find the man who stole his motorcycle, losing his motorcycle in the process.
Watching this stupid episode full of characters doing stupid things to propel stupid plotlines may have been worth it for that recap.
Sorry to say it, but Carol has become a really boring character. They really have no idea what to do with her, and what they're trying sucks.
The Saviors have two moves apparently. One approach is to walk like elves through the forest, then silently appear in a ring around their prey. The other is to group together closely so that they can be all killed by a single machine gun/RPG.
posted by skewed at 9:06 PM on March 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
Watching this stupid episode full of characters doing stupid things to propel stupid plotlines may have been worth it for that recap.
Sorry to say it, but Carol has become a really boring character. They really have no idea what to do with her, and what they're trying sucks.
The Saviors have two moves apparently. One approach is to walk like elves through the forest, then silently appear in a ring around their prey. The other is to group together closely so that they can be all killed by a single machine gun/RPG.
posted by skewed at 9:06 PM on March 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
Chomped Cock Guy: "Let's capture those guys who keep kicking our asses."
Goon #1: "Yeah!"
Goon #2: "Yeah, that's what we should do! Yeah!"
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:09 PM on March 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
Goon #1: "Yeah!"
Goon #2: "Yeah, that's what we should do! Yeah!"
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:09 PM on March 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
I'll give them credit for managing to create 2 hilarious episodes in a row.
posted by juiceCake at 9:10 PM on March 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by juiceCake at 9:10 PM on March 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
So I guess they keep those barrier cars gassed up, eh?
I think it makes sense considering they have an infinite supply of fuel, as has been made apparent over the last 6 seasons.
posted by skewed at 9:13 PM on March 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
I think it makes sense considering they have an infinite supply of fuel, as has been made apparent over the last 6 seasons.
posted by skewed at 9:13 PM on March 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
Meanwhile, with Denise gone, Maggie's going to need to visit the friendly obstetrician in that other community, conveniently forcing yet more characters to venture outside the presumed safety of Alexandria's walls.
posted by Pryde at 9:14 PM on March 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Pryde at 9:14 PM on March 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm thinking one day I'll move out of the suburbs and buy a nice farm in Alexandria, VA. It's so rural! I could probably develop the land and make a few bucks, what with its proximity to DC.
posted by gatorae at 9:16 PM on March 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by gatorae at 9:16 PM on March 27, 2016 [7 favorites]
And FWIW, Savior guy shoots Darryl through the right shoulder if you frame advance through it.
posted by scalefree at 10:12 PM on March 27, 2016
posted by scalefree at 10:12 PM on March 27, 2016
I have never missed an episode of this show, yet I feel like I somehow missed the episode that explains how Carol went from the total bad-ass pragmatist to the tortured soul who can't pull a trigger without blubbering. It was like they just skipped about 10 steps of plot here and essentially dropped a new, unrecognizable character on the show. Seriously, "Look at the flowers, Lizzie" Carol cannot kill a group of ruthless strangers without whimpering?
If that wasn't enough, for the second time this season we get the same ridiculous "Oooh, is he dead or not, how mysterious, guess you'll have to tune in next week to find out..." nonsense?
posted by The Gooch at 10:18 PM on March 27, 2016 [13 favorites]
If that wasn't enough, for the second time this season we get the same ridiculous "Oooh, is he dead or not, how mysterious, guess you'll have to tune in next week to find out..." nonsense?
posted by The Gooch at 10:18 PM on March 27, 2016 [13 favorites]
When Rick and Morgan stumble upon the site of Carol's encounter they come from the opposite direction of Alexandria.
Didn't the Saviors come down the road towards Carol, pass her, shoot out her tires, spin her out, and skid to a stop between her and, presumably, Alexandria? Would make sense that Rick and Morgan approached from the truck side.
posted by eyeballkid at 11:32 PM on March 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
Didn't the Saviors come down the road towards Carol, pass her, shoot out her tires, spin her out, and skid to a stop between her and, presumably, Alexandria? Would make sense that Rick and Morgan approached from the truck side.
posted by eyeballkid at 11:32 PM on March 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
Googling tells me it's a thing (not really for use in this context) but the way that dude held his gun made me crazy.
posted by Iteki at 1:10 AM on March 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Iteki at 1:10 AM on March 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
I was uninterested in zombies so ignored this show until I noticed significant discussion and binged when I the first 2-3 seasons on netflix. That comes without commercials and binging leaves less time for reflection so I finally "got" what was interesting and enthralling about this show. Then I watched a season somewhat real time and the little I thought about all the not exactly bad or wrong choices but outright irrational choices and plotlines just made me annoyed. This thread reinforces my thought that even though I'm curious I'll wait to binge.
posted by sammyo at 4:47 AM on March 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by sammyo at 4:47 AM on March 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
(although they're awfully good at sneaking around and getting the drop on people, even if they bungle things afterwards).
The Savior that was shot in the shoulder hid in the bushes and then started following Rick and Morgan as they tried to track down Carol. Rick then went back to Alexandria, presumably going back to the car they drove in on. Rick never ran into him.
Daryl and Rosita are able to find Glenn and Michonne in the middle of pretty thick woods, but never see or suspect the ambush set up for them by the same guy in pretty much the same place the day before.
Alexandrian guards don't notice their car full of pointed sticks parked right by the gate was driven away in the middle of the night until someone finds a note and starts looking around.
If there's a pattern here, it's not that the Saviors are super-ninjas. Maybe the zombie virus impairs cognitive functions like toxoplasmosis or that creepy ant fungus.
posted by cardboard at 6:16 AM on March 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
The Savior that was shot in the shoulder hid in the bushes and then started following Rick and Morgan as they tried to track down Carol. Rick then went back to Alexandria, presumably going back to the car they drove in on. Rick never ran into him.
Daryl and Rosita are able to find Glenn and Michonne in the middle of pretty thick woods, but never see or suspect the ambush set up for them by the same guy in pretty much the same place the day before.
Alexandrian guards don't notice their car full of pointed sticks parked right by the gate was driven away in the middle of the night until someone finds a note and starts looking around.
If there's a pattern here, it's not that the Saviors are super-ninjas. Maybe the zombie virus impairs cognitive functions like toxoplasmosis or that creepy ant fungus.
posted by cardboard at 6:16 AM on March 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
I have never missed an episode of this show, yet I feel like I somehow missed the episode that explains how Carol went from the total bad-ass pragmatist to the tortured soul who can't pull a trigger without blubbering. It was like they just skipped about 10 steps of plot here and essentially dropped a new, unrecognizable character on the show.
It was emulating those folks back at the slaughterhouse, yeah? There's maybe supposed to be a bit pre-zombie-apocalypse religous reversion going on for her?
It's hamfisted to be sure.
Is this the first time this show has started to go off the rails in this way?
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 6:35 AM on March 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
It was emulating those folks back at the slaughterhouse, yeah? There's maybe supposed to be a bit pre-zombie-apocalypse religous reversion going on for her?
It's hamfisted to be sure.
Is this the first time this show has started to go off the rails in this way?
posted by The Legit Republic of Blanketsburg at 6:35 AM on March 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Why do they all venture out in whatever Chrysler K-Car is available? Why do they not have a couple of well-equipped pickup trucks or SUVs loaded with extra fuel, ammo, water, and other supplies for their away team vehicles?
Why do they send their five best, most non-expendable people, out to do things?
WHY ARE THEY SO BAD AT THIS?
For fuck's sake I'm a suburban dad who has never even touched a real gun and I once needed my wife to scoop up a dead frog from our driveway and I could survive the zombie apocalypse so much better than these idiots.
posted by bondcliff at 6:42 AM on March 28, 2016 [13 favorites]
Why do they send their five best, most non-expendable people, out to do things?
WHY ARE THEY SO BAD AT THIS?
For fuck's sake I'm a suburban dad who has never even touched a real gun and I once needed my wife to scoop up a dead frog from our driveway and I could survive the zombie apocalypse so much better than these idiots.
posted by bondcliff at 6:42 AM on March 28, 2016 [13 favorites]
The Saviors have managed to kill exactly one Alexandrite so far. One. She was ambushed and unprepared, inexperienced (out in the field for the first time, in fact), and armed with only a melee weapon.
The Alexandrites have butchered, like, three dozen Saviors.
If we're supposed to see the Saviors as some kind of genuine threat, it's not working.
Okay, so Carol decides to leave. Then a carful of Alexandrites go after her. Then Rick and Morgan go after them, leaving the community defended by a pregnant woman who's experiencing medical problems and, I guess, whatever extras happen to be around. What could possibly go wrong?
posted by escape from the potato planet at 7:17 AM on March 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
The Alexandrites have butchered, like, three dozen Saviors.
If we're supposed to see the Saviors as some kind of genuine threat, it's not working.
Okay, so Carol decides to leave. Then a carful of Alexandrites go after her. Then Rick and Morgan go after them, leaving the community defended by a pregnant woman who's experiencing medical problems and, I guess, whatever extras happen to be around. What could possibly go wrong?
posted by escape from the potato planet at 7:17 AM on March 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
I don't watch the show anymore, but still check out the recaps from time to time, and Sys Req, this was the best one I ever read, thanks.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:18 AM on March 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:18 AM on March 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Watching that shit ending, with Dwight seemingly shooting Darryl and then being heard to say, just as the screen turns, "Ah, you'll be alright" I was reminded of these two things:
1) The way that The A-Team, which aired during an era where network censors frowned on excessive killing, would just have any old exploding car, bomb detonation, car wreck, or whatever, implying that many, many henchmen had been horribly killed, then would have the voice of one henchmen, just audible, say to the other, "You all right?" and the other guy would be heard to say, "Yeah, I'm okay."
2) Kathy Bates' character in Misery, who I am positive would have had a "cockadoody"-shouting meltdown at this obvious fake cliffhanger horseshit.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:35 AM on March 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
1) The way that The A-Team, which aired during an era where network censors frowned on excessive killing, would just have any old exploding car, bomb detonation, car wreck, or whatever, implying that many, many henchmen had been horribly killed, then would have the voice of one henchmen, just audible, say to the other, "You all right?" and the other guy would be heard to say, "Yeah, I'm okay."
2) Kathy Bates' character in Misery, who I am positive would have had a "cockadoody"-shouting meltdown at this obvious fake cliffhanger horseshit.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:35 AM on March 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
Also, they really need to get to the confrontation with The Saviors out of this specific interaction, because if Rick's people slaughter another dozen or so of Neagan's people we're getting up on the point where even the craziest motherfucker in the world might reasonably say, "You know what? Every time we come across the Alexandrites, most or all of us die horrible fucking deaths. Maybe from now on, we just go our own way."
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:37 AM on March 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:37 AM on March 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Rick killed that dude at the scene of Carol's Commando routine. Why? I mean I know why, because we all knew he was bad, but Rick didn't know that! For all Rick knew, that guy moaning and unable to answer Rick's question was someone who tried to come out and help carol, and got shot too. He could have been riding with Carol, for all we know.
I mean Rick was a cop and he's seasoned and so he probably would be trustworthy in having a hunch that the guy was evil, but still he didn't know that guy, and that guy was just laying there having been shot. A minute later, Rick found the Savior Spear™ so he knew, but I'm like damn Rick, stabbed the guy in the head and you didn't even know if he was bad.
posted by cashman at 7:37 AM on March 28, 2016
I mean Rick was a cop and he's seasoned and so he probably would be trustworthy in having a hunch that the guy was evil, but still he didn't know that guy, and that guy was just laying there having been shot. A minute later, Rick found the Savior Spear™ so he knew, but I'm like damn Rick, stabbed the guy in the head and you didn't even know if he was bad.
posted by cashman at 7:37 AM on March 28, 2016
Important to remember in this show that they are all incredibly mentally traumatized, damaging the cognitive abilities.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 7:49 AM on March 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 7:49 AM on March 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
In addition to all the other dumb, this episode gets my award for worst use of a song so far. That Johnny Cash tune was such a jarring change of tone that it just didn't work at all. I think the Walking Dead team keeps trying to echo the creative choices of the Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul team and failing miserably.
I'm sure they intended the gun shot at the end to be suspenseful, but at this point it's just eyeroll-inducing. The nonsense with Glenn and the Dumpster, reinforced by the capture of Carol and Maggie, has ruined cliff-hangers on this show. We know the pattern. When people die, it's from out of nowhere during an episode. If they are in danger at the end, they are definitely safe for a while.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 7:52 AM on March 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
I'm sure they intended the gun shot at the end to be suspenseful, but at this point it's just eyeroll-inducing. The nonsense with Glenn and the Dumpster, reinforced by the capture of Carol and Maggie, has ruined cliff-hangers on this show. We know the pattern. When people die, it's from out of nowhere during an episode. If they are in danger at the end, they are definitely safe for a while.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 7:52 AM on March 28, 2016 [8 favorites]
I like Carol's character. I'm not bored with her at all. To me, they've shown how she got to be the way she is. Holy crap, she's been through hell. She's seen death on death on death, and still tried to be the type of person that tries to cheer people up by making them beet cookies.
But after you've seen your own child come running at you as a turned walker, watched her get shot in the head, then ended up having to shoot an actually living child in the head, I'm glad it has started to do things to a character. You either take the road of heartless, without-feeling killer who is going to take out anybody who threatens those you feel you're protecting, or you do what you're told in acting as a soldier for that person if you feel they're justified in not doing grisly unprovoked things.
But to me Carol has never been fully 'under' a leader once the whole banishment thing happened. So with the fight with Morgan and her confronting all the deaths, I can totally see how that character would start feeling like "I'm not going to kill you unless you force me to".
Think about the characters that have been on the show (I don't count Morgan since he was gone too long) since the very beginning episodes. It's down to Rick, Carl, Daryl, Glenn, and Carol. Carl was a kid when it started, and Daryl to me has never been part of a community or society so much as he's felt like an outsider (via his backstory). I think Glenn has found solace with Maggie, and while he has always been a "pick your spots" kind of guy, I think he's gotten even more pointed with do what you need to do when you need to do it, and be smart. To me, Carol doesn't have someone she feels she can interact with that she likes, and she's been through so much, her actions make sense to me and are interesting to watch. When the shots rang out and almost all those saviors were dead, I waited for the camera to pan to Rick, or Daryl, or someone from Alexandria. And then it panned to her. Just her. I thought that was a great moment.
posted by cashman at 7:53 AM on March 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
But after you've seen your own child come running at you as a turned walker, watched her get shot in the head, then ended up having to shoot an actually living child in the head, I'm glad it has started to do things to a character. You either take the road of heartless, without-feeling killer who is going to take out anybody who threatens those you feel you're protecting, or you do what you're told in acting as a soldier for that person if you feel they're justified in not doing grisly unprovoked things.
But to me Carol has never been fully 'under' a leader once the whole banishment thing happened. So with the fight with Morgan and her confronting all the deaths, I can totally see how that character would start feeling like "I'm not going to kill you unless you force me to".
Think about the characters that have been on the show (I don't count Morgan since he was gone too long) since the very beginning episodes. It's down to Rick, Carl, Daryl, Glenn, and Carol. Carl was a kid when it started, and Daryl to me has never been part of a community or society so much as he's felt like an outsider (via his backstory). I think Glenn has found solace with Maggie, and while he has always been a "pick your spots" kind of guy, I think he's gotten even more pointed with do what you need to do when you need to do it, and be smart. To me, Carol doesn't have someone she feels she can interact with that she likes, and she's been through so much, her actions make sense to me and are interesting to watch. When the shots rang out and almost all those saviors were dead, I waited for the camera to pan to Rick, or Daryl, or someone from Alexandria. And then it panned to her. Just her. I thought that was a great moment.
posted by cashman at 7:53 AM on March 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
No, it was definitely a barrier car. That's why it had all those spikes in it.
I just assumed she added those herself because she watched Fury Road the night before.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:23 AM on March 28, 2016 [14 favorites]
I just assumed she added those herself because she watched Fury Road the night before.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:23 AM on March 28, 2016 [14 favorites]
In addition to all the other dumb, this episode gets my award for worst use of a song so far. That Johnny Cash tune was such a jarring change of tone that it just didn't work at all.
I've noticed a distinct change in the musical direction in this half of the season. They used to do a pretty good job of picking plaintive indie-folky stuff that created a certain mournful mood. But lately, it's gotten almost...whimsical? It seems to have coincided with the show's sudden interest in establishing romantic subplots for every major character.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 8:28 AM on March 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
I've noticed a distinct change in the musical direction in this half of the season. They used to do a pretty good job of picking plaintive indie-folky stuff that created a certain mournful mood. But lately, it's gotten almost...whimsical? It seems to have coincided with the show's sudden interest in establishing romantic subplots for every major character.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 8:28 AM on March 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
Bear McCreary has definitely failed on the soundtrack front. Now when the music comes on during this show, it ruins the scene, distracts and detracts from it. It used to be a little addition, something that took your emotions the scene had generated and pushed them further, or held them up. It's just been really bad on the music front lately.
posted by cashman at 8:32 AM on March 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by cashman at 8:32 AM on March 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
When Rick and Morgan confronted the guy wearing armor in the barn, did they say something that would imply they are suspicious of Hilltop? The show is so mumbly that even though I rewound, I was left with that impression but had no discernible dialogue to pin it on.
Has there been anything else in the show to leave that impression with me?
posted by Seamus at 9:19 AM on March 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Has there been anything else in the show to leave that impression with me?
posted by Seamus at 9:19 AM on March 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
They're suspicious of people with Hilltop-forged weapons because that is one of the things the Hilltop is almost certainly paying as tribute to the Saviors.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:24 AM on March 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:24 AM on March 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
A minute later, Rick found the Savior Spear™ so he knew, but I'm like damn Rick, stabbed the guy in the head and you didn't even know if he was bad.
To be fair, I think the guy was going to die without professional medical attention, so stabbing him in the head just ensured he wouldn't turn into a zombie.
Although Rick probably would have done it anyway.
posted by Pryde at 10:19 AM on March 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
To be fair, I think the guy was going to die without professional medical attention, so stabbing him in the head just ensured he wouldn't turn into a zombie.
Although Rick probably would have done it anyway.
posted by Pryde at 10:19 AM on March 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Is it really that easy to stick a knife through someone's skull?
Asking for a friend
posted by bondcliff at 10:22 AM on March 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
Asking for a friend
posted by bondcliff at 10:22 AM on March 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
Yeah, I definitely got the vibe that Rick felt (and rightfully so) that the guy lying on the road was going to die very soon. He asked him for information then, not getting it, knifed him to make sure he wouldn't turn.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:26 AM on March 28, 2016
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:26 AM on March 28, 2016
"The suspect assumed an aggressively dying posture and, fearing for his safety and for that of the community, Officer Grimes disabled the suspect to prevent later reanimation."
I get that the dying guy was a hazard, but Rick seemed to be motivated by more than zombie prevention--more like he couldn't get any information out of him and the next step was summary execution for suspicion of attempted Carolcide.
posted by cardboard at 10:39 AM on March 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
I get that the dying guy was a hazard, but Rick seemed to be motivated by more than zombie prevention--more like he couldn't get any information out of him and the next step was summary execution for suspicion of attempted Carolcide.
posted by cardboard at 10:39 AM on March 28, 2016 [7 favorites]
I mean Rick was a cop and he's seasoned
He was the Barney Fife in a one-horse podunk nowheresville. He's about as seasoned as a boiled potato.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:53 AM on March 28, 2016 [11 favorites]
He was the Barney Fife in a one-horse podunk nowheresville. He's about as seasoned as a boiled potato.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:53 AM on March 28, 2016 [11 favorites]
I have never missed an episode of this show, yet I feel like I somehow missed the episode that explains how Carol went from the total bad-ass pragmatist to the tortured soul who can't pull a trigger without blubbering.
It was Carol's extrication from the Saviors that did it to her. The woman guarding her said something to the effect of "we're not bad guys, in time you'll be doing the same things as us". She realized it was true, she could become a Savior. That's what broke her.
posted by scalefree at 10:58 AM on March 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
It was Carol's extrication from the Saviors that did it to her. The woman guarding her said something to the effect of "we're not bad guys, in time you'll be doing the same things as us". She realized it was true, she could become a Savior. That's what broke her.
posted by scalefree at 10:58 AM on March 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
I don't really practice hate-watching as a rule, but I think last night's show was the last straw for me. I'll keep watching, because I've watched every episode so far and I still want to see how it turns out, but last night's episode was so bad that I think it glenn-under-the-dumpstered the show for me.
The long mumbly scenes with Morgan and Rick were so aggressively boring that at one point I looked around the room and all 3 of us were on our phones. They'd mumble for a while about the same shit and then just sit or walk in silence for way too long. It seemed like the writers ran out of time and didn't finish writing. They could have put those few minutes of silent driving to better use by squeezing in even more shots of blood dripping onto pavement or Carol's cross necklace.
And the whole going-back-to-get-Dwight thing was just painful. I was SHOCKED I TELL YOU, SHOCKED when they were surrounded by Dwight and his dudes. Again. By the time Darryl was shot (OR WAS HE?) I honestly didn't care.
I had been a hold-out for Carol and Darryl and Michonne and even Carl (I know) for a while, hoping they wouln't die, but now I'm starting to not care about anyone anymore; it's all become so stupid.
Here's a few characters I'd like to see die in some upcoming episodes, maybe pick up the pace a bit:
Rick (obviously)
Baby Judith (let's just get it over with)
Morgan
Rosita
Abraham
Carl
Dwight and his pals
Carl's Hair
I'd add "anyone with a recurring internal moral conflict storyline" but there'd be no one left.
posted by chococat at 11:11 AM on March 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
The long mumbly scenes with Morgan and Rick were so aggressively boring that at one point I looked around the room and all 3 of us were on our phones. They'd mumble for a while about the same shit and then just sit or walk in silence for way too long. It seemed like the writers ran out of time and didn't finish writing. They could have put those few minutes of silent driving to better use by squeezing in even more shots of blood dripping onto pavement or Carol's cross necklace.
And the whole going-back-to-get-Dwight thing was just painful. I was SHOCKED I TELL YOU, SHOCKED when they were surrounded by Dwight and his dudes. Again. By the time Darryl was shot (OR WAS HE?) I honestly didn't care.
I had been a hold-out for Carol and Darryl and Michonne and even Carl (I know) for a while, hoping they wouln't die, but now I'm starting to not care about anyone anymore; it's all become so stupid.
Here's a few characters I'd like to see die in some upcoming episodes, maybe pick up the pace a bit:
Rick (obviously)
Baby Judith (let's just get it over with)
Morgan
Rosita
Abraham
Carl
Dwight and his pals
Carl's Hair
I'd add "anyone with a recurring internal moral conflict storyline" but there'd be no one left.
posted by chococat at 11:11 AM on March 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
Was I only half paying attention or did Carol's cardigun fire automatic-style even though it turned out to seemingly just be a Colt .45?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:10 PM on March 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:10 PM on March 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
There are too many people on this earth, we need ANOTHER good plague.
posted by FallowKing at 1:01 PM on March 28, 2016
posted by FallowKing at 1:01 PM on March 28, 2016
What is all this cliffhanger noise about Daryl? Dwight clearly said after the cut to black "you'll be alright".
We never did see where Carol went right? So presumably her and Morgab could show up at just the right time to save the four idiots that got caught.
Glen or Maggie is probably about to die. They keep foreshadowing something. That shot of her in the side mirror as they were driving away really drove it home for me.
posted by LizBoBiz at 1:01 PM on March 28, 2016
We never did see where Carol went right? So presumably her and Morgab could show up at just the right time to save the four idiots that got caught.
Glen or Maggie is probably about to die. They keep foreshadowing something. That shot of her in the side mirror as they were driving away really drove it home for me.
posted by LizBoBiz at 1:01 PM on March 28, 2016
Morgab
At first I thought this was just a glorious typo, but now I realize it's so perfect you must have meant it.
posted by cashman at 1:11 PM on March 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
At first I thought this was just a glorious typo, but now I realize it's so perfect you must have meant it.
posted by cashman at 1:11 PM on March 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Was I only half paying attention or did Carol's cardigun fire automatic-style even though it turned out to seemingly just be a Colt .45?
posted by DirtyOldTown
No, I was wondering what kind of gun she could keep in her sleeve and still control enough, and with a relatively short magazine, to get everyone AND have enough penetration of the truck to be able to hit most of them.
They never showed it. Not that I saw.
The .45 came from the guy who was driving, got out of the cab and followed her to the car. She speared him and he dropped his pistol on the roof of the car. She then picked it up.
posted by Seamus at 1:12 PM on March 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown
No, I was wondering what kind of gun she could keep in her sleeve and still control enough, and with a relatively short magazine, to get everyone AND have enough penetration of the truck to be able to hit most of them.
They never showed it. Not that I saw.
The .45 came from the guy who was driving, got out of the cab and followed her to the car. She speared him and he dropped his pistol on the roof of the car. She then picked it up.
posted by Seamus at 1:12 PM on March 28, 2016 [4 favorites]
I don't really practice hate-watching as a rule, but I think last night's show was the last straw for me. I'll keep watching, because I've watched every episode so far and I still want to see how it turns out, but last night's episode was so bad that I think it glenn-under-the-dumpstered the show for me.
I would have stopped watching the moment Glenn crawled out from under the dumpster, but my partner is still hanging in. I'm just sick of all the manufactured drama and bullshit cliffhangers.
Truth be told, I spent most of this episode playing Lord of the Rings Online.
posted by tobascodagama at 1:39 PM on March 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
I would have stopped watching the moment Glenn crawled out from under the dumpster, but my partner is still hanging in. I'm just sick of all the manufactured drama and bullshit cliffhangers.
Truth be told, I spent most of this episode playing Lord of the Rings Online.
posted by tobascodagama at 1:39 PM on March 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Join us chococat, I only read these recap threads now and it improved my enjoyment of the show immensely.
I still will be watching the second season of Fear the Walking dead. Can't wait to see how they will fuck up that show (season 1 of FtWD wasn't even that good to begin with).
posted by Pendragon at 2:44 PM on March 28, 2016
I still will be watching the second season of Fear the Walking dead. Can't wait to see how they will fuck up that show (season 1 of FtWD wasn't even that good to begin with).
posted by Pendragon at 2:44 PM on March 28, 2016
We saw Carol sewing something into her coat with some pretty big stitches, and I assume it's a semi- or fully automatic sawed off shotgun. Surely someone with better gun knowledge than myself can parse what caliber of weapon fits best in the sleeve of a Carhartt jacket?
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 3:05 PM on March 28, 2016
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 3:05 PM on March 28, 2016
Ok, dumb question. I thought that you had to stick something into the brain to put a zombie down for good? How is Morgan just clubbing them on the side of the head with his staff getting the job done? At the farmhouse he spears a zombie or two, but earlier he was just smacking them. Can I chalk this up to more TWD inconsistency, or... ?
posted by TwoStride at 3:26 PM on March 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by TwoStride at 3:26 PM on March 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
I assumed that trauma that destroys the brain will put a zombie down. I don't know if it requires full penetration of the skull. But that's what makes the goo splatter, so it is how it is done more often than not.
So, I'll cop to being the gun geek.
I thought the gun in carol's sleeve sounded like a small submachine gun.
A shotgun, even most automatic ones would be 1) hard to conceal, 2) hard to work the trigger way up the sleeve, and 3) hard to keep from jamming after the first shell left the chamber and was stopped by her sleeve.
Any automatic firearm up the sleeve would be incredibly likely to jam unless she had sown an ejection port into her sleeve. Without an ejection port, her sleeve would rapidly fill up with hot brass. Really hot brass. Not fun.
So . . . suspend disbelief and assume she had a gun that would work correctly.
posted by Seamus at 3:36 PM on March 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
So, I'll cop to being the gun geek.
I thought the gun in carol's sleeve sounded like a small submachine gun.
A shotgun, even most automatic ones would be 1) hard to conceal, 2) hard to work the trigger way up the sleeve, and 3) hard to keep from jamming after the first shell left the chamber and was stopped by her sleeve.
Any automatic firearm up the sleeve would be incredibly likely to jam unless she had sown an ejection port into her sleeve. Without an ejection port, her sleeve would rapidly fill up with hot brass. Really hot brass. Not fun.
So . . . suspend disbelief and assume she had a gun that would work correctly.
posted by Seamus at 3:36 PM on March 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
How is Morgan just clubbing them on the side of the head with his staff getting the job done?
Who knows, but I highly recommend shouting "BONK!" every time he does it. It increases my enjoyment immensely.
posted by gatorae at 3:44 PM on March 28, 2016 [11 favorites]
Who knows, but I highly recommend shouting "BONK!" every time he does it. It increases my enjoyment immensely.
posted by gatorae at 3:44 PM on March 28, 2016 [11 favorites]
I know it doesn't fit the direction they've inexplicably taken her character in, but when the Savior was asking Carol who she was I so desperately wanted her to scream "I'm the Angel of Death, motherfuckers!" *engage cardigun*
posted by torisaur at 4:17 PM on March 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by torisaur at 4:17 PM on March 28, 2016 [3 favorites]
Maybe Carol has always had guns for arms and we've just never noticed.
posted by Sys Rq at 4:33 PM on March 28, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by Sys Rq at 4:33 PM on March 28, 2016 [19 favorites]
I thought the gun in carol's sleeve sounded like a small submachine gun.
I figured it was an auto pistol of some kind, like a Glock 18 or whatever. I didn't count the shots, but she probably could've put all those guys down if she had a 30ish-round extended mag. The least injured guy was inside the car, IIRC, so that wouldn't require a whole lot of penetration.
(How she actually fit an extended mag up her sleeve is more of an open question, but I'm willing to suspend disbelief for this one.)
I do like Sys Rq's explanation, though.
posted by tobascodagama at 5:05 PM on March 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
I figured it was an auto pistol of some kind, like a Glock 18 or whatever. I didn't count the shots, but she probably could've put all those guys down if she had a 30ish-round extended mag. The least injured guy was inside the car, IIRC, so that wouldn't require a whole lot of penetration.
(How she actually fit an extended mag up her sleeve is more of an open question, but I'm willing to suspend disbelief for this one.)
I do like Sys Rq's explanation, though.
posted by tobascodagama at 5:05 PM on March 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
I am not convinced Carol's tears are 100% reluctance to kill. I *do* believe that she's noticed that people lower their guard when she starts sobbing. Might be a combination of the two.
posted by Mogur at 5:53 PM on March 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Mogur at 5:53 PM on March 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
I agree. Like she's doing a controlled release.
posted by LizBoBiz at 6:06 PM on March 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by LizBoBiz at 6:06 PM on March 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
I thought that you had to stick something into the brain to put a zombie down for good? How is Morgan just clubbing them on the side of the head with his staff getting the job done?
All that's needed is some kind of trauma to the brain, penetrative or no. It does seem like the needed amount of force has been diminishing, but it's been established for a while that a solid thwack is often sufficient. If you want an in-universe justification, then tell yourself that older walkers have decayed to the point where their tissues are more fragile.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 7:24 PM on March 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
All that's needed is some kind of trauma to the brain, penetrative or no. It does seem like the needed amount of force has been diminishing, but it's been established for a while that a solid thwack is often sufficient. If you want an in-universe justification, then tell yourself that older walkers have decayed to the point where their tissues are more fragile.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 7:24 PM on March 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
LizBoBiz: "What is all this cliffhanger noise about Daryl? Dwight clearly said after the cut to black 'you'll be alright.'"
I think that was pretty clearly not Dwight's voice. Dwight's voice is higher-pitched. That was Daryl's voice - apparently stuck in at the end to let us know he ain't dead yet.
But you're right - that would've made more sense, coming from Dwight. From Daryl, it's pretty confusing. Apparently he's talking to himself? Who knows.
posted by koeselitz at 8:41 PM on March 28, 2016
I think that was pretty clearly not Dwight's voice. Dwight's voice is higher-pitched. That was Daryl's voice - apparently stuck in at the end to let us know he ain't dead yet.
But you're right - that would've made more sense, coming from Dwight. From Daryl, it's pretty confusing. Apparently he's talking to himself? Who knows.
posted by koeselitz at 8:41 PM on March 28, 2016
Oh geez, so apparently that is Dwight at the end? Well, that's weird.
posted by koeselitz at 8:42 PM on March 28, 2016
posted by koeselitz at 8:42 PM on March 28, 2016
Okay, look: after rewinding and replaying that a dozen times, I swear to god "you'll be alright" is Daryl's voice, not Dwight's. It sounds nothing like the Dwight that says Daryl's name a few moments before. Yet the captions (and every Internet review I read) says it's Dwight. Very weird.
posted by koeselitz at 9:10 PM on March 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by koeselitz at 9:10 PM on March 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
I have so many opinions and there are so many points that I feel need a response, but;
She was ... and armed with only a melee weapon.
is the kind of thing that makes me love being on Metafilter so much.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:35 PM on March 28, 2016
She was ... and armed with only a melee weapon.
is the kind of thing that makes me love being on Metafilter so much.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:35 PM on March 28, 2016
Alan Sepinwall, HitFix: Why tonight's 'The Walking Dead' has me on the verge of quitting the show:
When I'm at a point with a show where all I can see are the narrative strings being pulled by the creative team, and where my view of the characters is so wildly different from that of the writers (who, for instance, can't allow Rick to ever be wrong about anything, even though he's often clearly an idiot), then it's pretty much time to stop watching. Every TV show is a relationship, and this one feels poisoned beyond repair for me. I'll stick with it through next week's season finale just for the sake of completism, but barring a whole bunch of creative miracles, I think I'll be happier walking away after that. The show's still an enormous hit; it sure doesn't need me.posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 9:38 PM on March 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
I swear to god "you'll be alright" is Daryl's voice, not Dwight's. It sounds nothing like the Dwight that says Daryl's name a few moments before.
It sounded like Dwight to me at the time, but a difference in tone would support the theory that they dubbed that line after the fact to avoid another audience revolt like when they faked out Glenn's death.
posted by cardboard at 4:12 AM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
It sounded like Dwight to me at the time, but a difference in tone would support the theory that they dubbed that line after the fact to avoid another audience revolt like when they faked out Glenn's death.
posted by cardboard at 4:12 AM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
I swear to god "you'll be alright" is Daryl's voice, not Dwight's.
That's what I thought too. I couldn't figure out how that fit given that Dwight pulled the trigger, but I was still surprised when people in this thread said it was Dwight.
Also, spears are a great idea. They're perfect for zombies. Keep your distance, stab the brain, never run out of ammunition. Put a little bar behind the blade like a boar spear and you're set. It was driving me nuts that Rick kept leaving them behind.
posted by The Man from Lardfork at 5:24 AM on March 29, 2016 [5 favorites]
That's what I thought too. I couldn't figure out how that fit given that Dwight pulled the trigger, but I was still surprised when people in this thread said it was Dwight.
Also, spears are a great idea. They're perfect for zombies. Keep your distance, stab the brain, never run out of ammunition. Put a little bar behind the blade like a boar spear and you're set. It was driving me nuts that Rick kept leaving them behind.
posted by The Man from Lardfork at 5:24 AM on March 29, 2016 [5 favorites]
I'll certainly finish out this season, but I too am starting to wonder if there's something better I could be doing with that one hour a week. It's been evident for a while now that AMC doesn't particularly care about coherent plotting, or consistent characterization, or any of that—there's a huge viewership that will tune in no matter what.
I have a coworker who exemplifies this: whenever we talk about the most recent episode, I'll mention some of my reservations about it ("I just didn't think that guy's motivations made sense", or "why would they do X when it exposed them to risk Y and they could have just done Z; it seemed really obviously contrived to create artificial drama"). And he'll say, "well, yeah, but who cares? that one zombie headshot was bad-ass!". (He was a die-hard fan of the comics before the show came along.) He just does not care as long as he's getting cool fight scenes and nods toward the right moments from the comics.
He is AMC's core viewer, I think: he's the one who watches the Story Sync and all the behind-the-scenes material; he's the one who buys the action figures and posts the Facebook memes; etc.
AMC won't be sad to see me go, because for every viewer like me, there are ten of that guy. At this point, they're just putting their feet up while the cash machine prints cash. (Who knows? Maybe I'd do the same thing if I had a cash machine. Don't fix what's not broken, you know?) And when even those viewers finally lose interest, they'll still have made a great profit and a great addition to their resumes.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 5:32 AM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
I have a coworker who exemplifies this: whenever we talk about the most recent episode, I'll mention some of my reservations about it ("I just didn't think that guy's motivations made sense", or "why would they do X when it exposed them to risk Y and they could have just done Z; it seemed really obviously contrived to create artificial drama"). And he'll say, "well, yeah, but who cares? that one zombie headshot was bad-ass!". (He was a die-hard fan of the comics before the show came along.) He just does not care as long as he's getting cool fight scenes and nods toward the right moments from the comics.
He is AMC's core viewer, I think: he's the one who watches the Story Sync and all the behind-the-scenes material; he's the one who buys the action figures and posts the Facebook memes; etc.
AMC won't be sad to see me go, because for every viewer like me, there are ten of that guy. At this point, they're just putting their feet up while the cash machine prints cash. (Who knows? Maybe I'd do the same thing if I had a cash machine. Don't fix what's not broken, you know?) And when even those viewers finally lose interest, they'll still have made a great profit and a great addition to their resumes.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 5:32 AM on March 29, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm just very happy that Shane went and developed a moral code on another show. That's all I have to say.
posted by angrycat at 5:47 AM on March 29, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 5:47 AM on March 29, 2016 [5 favorites]
escape from the potato planet, I wrote this on the blue a year and a half ago:
This is why the Walking Dead is uneven and absolutely maddening; the fanbase itself is completely uneven. Half (made up percentage) of the fans don't give a shit about any of the characters and just want to watch zombies eat people, and the other half find the characters compelling and the zombies are just the inciting incident to an ensemble drama. I think the Walking Dead succeeds at both but rarely at the same time, so the fanbase is almost never happy about the same episodes. I don't know if this is a feature or a bug.
I still agree with my assessment, but I think at this point the show has abandoned the fanbase that cares about the characters and plot, because as you point out, my made-up 50% figure is completely off. I'm not going to stop watching (yet.. never say never), but my feelings about the show have changed. I still look for coherent plots, but I am not surprised when there is nothing there. If Daryl or Carol or Michonne died, I'd just be mildly disgusted rather than sad, because the show has killed my ability to care very deeply for these characters. Hard to care much when the characterizations of the characters are inconsistent from week to week so they no longer feel like people.
posted by gatorae at 6:16 AM on March 29, 2016 [6 favorites]
This is why the Walking Dead is uneven and absolutely maddening; the fanbase itself is completely uneven. Half (made up percentage) of the fans don't give a shit about any of the characters and just want to watch zombies eat people, and the other half find the characters compelling and the zombies are just the inciting incident to an ensemble drama. I think the Walking Dead succeeds at both but rarely at the same time, so the fanbase is almost never happy about the same episodes. I don't know if this is a feature or a bug.
I still agree with my assessment, but I think at this point the show has abandoned the fanbase that cares about the characters and plot, because as you point out, my made-up 50% figure is completely off. I'm not going to stop watching (yet.. never say never), but my feelings about the show have changed. I still look for coherent plots, but I am not surprised when there is nothing there. If Daryl or Carol or Michonne died, I'd just be mildly disgusted rather than sad, because the show has killed my ability to care very deeply for these characters. Hard to care much when the characterizations of the characters are inconsistent from week to week so they no longer feel like people.
posted by gatorae at 6:16 AM on March 29, 2016 [6 favorites]
the writers (who, for instance, can't allow Rick to ever be wrong about anything, even though he's often clearly an idiot)
Terrible criticism. Rick's been wrong time and time again. I'm not sure if Sepinwall has enough bandwidth to pay attention to the show, because when is Rick not wrong? When does he not make dumb decisions?
"well, yeah, but who cares? that one zombie headshot was bad-ass!"
I agree that this is what the show has embraced, and I echoed that in previous show threads. It's just about setups at this point. "Ooh, wouldn't it be cool to set the lake on fire?" "What if we had a car wreck, and then have the walker like entangled in the car's undercarriage?...oooh yeah!"
I think for the show to get back to some of the things that made me really latch on to it, they'd have to hire back Darabont. But that's not going to happen so for the most part I've been watching this show like you'd watch the neighbor's trash get picked through by a raccoon on a windy day. "Oh look, that's going to suck to clean up. Look at Nancy chasing that lid!" It is what it is.
posted by cashman at 6:18 AM on March 29, 2016 [6 favorites]
Terrible criticism. Rick's been wrong time and time again. I'm not sure if Sepinwall has enough bandwidth to pay attention to the show, because when is Rick not wrong? When does he not make dumb decisions?
"well, yeah, but who cares? that one zombie headshot was bad-ass!"
I agree that this is what the show has embraced, and I echoed that in previous show threads. It's just about setups at this point. "Ooh, wouldn't it be cool to set the lake on fire?" "What if we had a car wreck, and then have the walker like entangled in the car's undercarriage?...oooh yeah!"
I think for the show to get back to some of the things that made me really latch on to it, they'd have to hire back Darabont. But that's not going to happen so for the most part I've been watching this show like you'd watch the neighbor's trash get picked through by a raccoon on a windy day. "Oh look, that's going to suck to clean up. Look at Nancy chasing that lid!" It is what it is.
posted by cashman at 6:18 AM on March 29, 2016 [6 favorites]
When I'm at a point with a show where all I can see are the narrative strings being pulled by the creative team, and where my view of the characters is so wildly different from that of the writers
Yeaaaahhh... This was actually something I discussed with my partner this week (who sort of floats between the two types of viewer mentioned above -- she cares about consistent characterisation and wants plots that make sense, but she'll basically keep watching as long as there's cool zombie action). There were a couple of times where she asked me, "Wait, why are they..." or "Why didn't they...", and the only honest answer I could give was "because they wanted to set up some bullshit drama".
(Example point of discussion:
"Wait, everybody is infected, right? And that's why they all turn when they die, even if they didn't get bit?"
"Yeah."
"But Eugene bit that guy in the dick, why hasn't he turned?"
"Well, the stuff that kills you is bacteria and whatever inside the walkers' mouths, not the virus itself."
"But then why are bites from walkers that just turned still lethal, then?"
"idk")
(Example point of discussion 2:
Me: "Wait, we just established that Alexandria isn't growing any food yet. Why is Rick talking like they're self-sufficient?"
"They got all that food from Hilltop."
"Sure, but that's my point. That supply will eventually run out, and then they need to get more from Hilltop. But Rick's saying they have everything they need in Alexandria, which isn't true."
"Maybe Hilltop gave them seeds and shit."
"Sure, but it'll take some time for them to actually plant the fields and start harvesting, and none of them are farmers. Until the next harvest season, they're not self-sufficient at all."
"It's just to set up the Garden of Eden imagery.")
etc.
posted by tobascodagama at 7:44 AM on March 29, 2016
Yeaaaahhh... This was actually something I discussed with my partner this week (who sort of floats between the two types of viewer mentioned above -- she cares about consistent characterisation and wants plots that make sense, but she'll basically keep watching as long as there's cool zombie action). There were a couple of times where she asked me, "Wait, why are they..." or "Why didn't they...", and the only honest answer I could give was "because they wanted to set up some bullshit drama".
(Example point of discussion:
"Wait, everybody is infected, right? And that's why they all turn when they die, even if they didn't get bit?"
"Yeah."
"But Eugene bit that guy in the dick, why hasn't he turned?"
"Well, the stuff that kills you is bacteria and whatever inside the walkers' mouths, not the virus itself."
"But then why are bites from walkers that just turned still lethal, then?"
"idk")
(Example point of discussion 2:
Me: "Wait, we just established that Alexandria isn't growing any food yet. Why is Rick talking like they're self-sufficient?"
"They got all that food from Hilltop."
"Sure, but that's my point. That supply will eventually run out, and then they need to get more from Hilltop. But Rick's saying they have everything they need in Alexandria, which isn't true."
"Maybe Hilltop gave them seeds and shit."
"Sure, but it'll take some time for them to actually plant the fields and start harvesting, and none of them are farmers. Until the next harvest season, they're not self-sufficient at all."
"It's just to set up the Garden of Eden imagery.")
etc.
posted by tobascodagama at 7:44 AM on March 29, 2016
"the writers (who, for instance, can't allow Rick to ever be wrong about anything, even though he's often clearly an idiot)"
Terrible criticism. Rick's been wrong time and time again. I'm not sure if Sepinwall has enough bandwidth to pay attention to the show, because when is Rick not wrong? When does he not make dumb decisions?
I think you misunderstood what Sepinwall meant with this wording. He clearly agrees that Rick is often wrong—morally wrong, tactically wrong, factually wrong, etc. By "can't allow Rick to ever be wrong about anything", he means that the writers refuse to acknowledge Rick's wrongness. The script won't act like Rick's speech and actions are wrong, even when they obviously are. Rick gets to wave his gun around, and rant about "protecting our own", and execute people who look at him funny, and force egregiously reckless courses of action on the rest of the group—and yet still the writing, and all of the other characters, treat him like a morally and tactically sound leader.
From our point of view, and from Sepinwall's—yeah, Rick is pretty much always wrong. The problem is that the writers either don't see it that way (maybe they think Rick's really is a paragon of leadership?), or they just don't care. (My money's on the latter.)
posted by escape from the potato planet at 9:10 AM on March 29, 2016 [7 favorites]
Terrible criticism. Rick's been wrong time and time again. I'm not sure if Sepinwall has enough bandwidth to pay attention to the show, because when is Rick not wrong? When does he not make dumb decisions?
I think you misunderstood what Sepinwall meant with this wording. He clearly agrees that Rick is often wrong—morally wrong, tactically wrong, factually wrong, etc. By "can't allow Rick to ever be wrong about anything", he means that the writers refuse to acknowledge Rick's wrongness. The script won't act like Rick's speech and actions are wrong, even when they obviously are. Rick gets to wave his gun around, and rant about "protecting our own", and execute people who look at him funny, and force egregiously reckless courses of action on the rest of the group—and yet still the writing, and all of the other characters, treat him like a morally and tactically sound leader.
From our point of view, and from Sepinwall's—yeah, Rick is pretty much always wrong. The problem is that the writers either don't see it that way (maybe they think Rick's really is a paragon of leadership?), or they just don't care. (My money's on the latter.)
posted by escape from the potato planet at 9:10 AM on March 29, 2016 [7 favorites]
On preview, escape from the potato planet already said this well, but here's my more verbose version I guess:
Alan Sepinwall: “... the writers (who, for instance, can't allow Rick to ever be wrong about anything, even though he's often clearly an idiot) ...”
cashman: “Terrible criticism. Rick's been wrong time and time again. I'm not sure if Sepinwall has enough bandwidth to pay attention to the show, because when is Rick not wrong? When does he not make dumb decisions? ”
Eh... I think it's actually good criticism. Sepinwall agrees with you that Rick is constantly wrong and makes dumb decisions. He said right there in his comment that Rick is "often clearly an idiot." The question is whether the writers see him as an idiot, or feel the need to mark out consequences for how really idiotic he is being, or even in any way acknowledge that he's an idiot. They don't let him be wrong – in the sense that every time he makes an idiotic decision that threatens everyone's life it turns out that Rick was right all along, or look Rick is just the best leader we have, or let's not talk about that let's just follow Rick.
I mean, look at the past two seasons. Last season, our heroes blundered into Alexandria, making some noise about how hard they were and how Alexandrians don't know what life is like out on these streets, but meanwhile their fearless leader Rick was being a monumental idiot, as per usual. He was falling in love with the convenient clean-cut nice white housewife – just his type – and acting like a fool toward her husband. He steamrolled over obvious conflicts of interest and political concerns that he must have known he was ignoring and exacerbating (or maybe he really is just that dumb?) and let what should have been a calm, cool exercise of the law for anybody who'd been a real policeman turn into a bloody and vicious brawl in front of the whole town, making himself look like a fool at best or a selfish, violent prick at worst and giving every sane Alexandrian reasons to doubt him. And how did that end up for Rick? He... was proven right when the guy he was beating on ended up being bumblingly clumsy enough to accidentally kill Captain Janeway's husband, and Rick once again got to satisfyingly take down his enemy (and the husband of his love interest) with no moral qualms and a thorough sense of rightness and fairness about the whole thing. It turned out to be a lesson, you see, about how Alexandrians need to trust Rick's leadership and skills, because he, unlike them, can recognize a threat. No words about how he's a loose cannon who is insanely cavalier about beating and killing people and who has seriously compromised moral views.
Then, having cemented his place as the right and true enforcer of the community, even if Captain Janeway kept the reins of political leadership, Rick's first plan was a highly dubious idea to move a buttload of zombies from one place to another place for reasons which remain relatively unclear. When this obviously bad plan fails predictably, and then the Wolves attack and the compound is under siege, everything is very dire, they somehow manage to fight off the Wolves – that still seems pretty dubious to me, but okay – and then the danger becomes the zombies. The threat of the mob of zombies in their compound is again very dire, but at the most desperate moment, Rick steps out of the shadows and valiantly leads a pitched (and, again, dubious) battle against the zombies in the darkness, fueled by his righteous rage, and they once again triumph thanks to Rick's strength and bravery and cunning.
Throughout all this, I grant that there were characters who said things like "Rick is stupid, and he just gets people killed." The problem is that, to a person, these characters were either (a) too weak to see the truth of Rick's superiority, but they soon came around and began to trust and admire him as they ought to; or (b) children of the guy he killed in front of everyone, so of course it turned out that they were just hopelessly damaged, and their blind fury was stupid and got other people and themselves killed, so of course they were wrong and Rick was right all along.
We've seen more examples of Rick being seemingly unaccountably stupid or violent in the past few episodes, too – shooting a Savior in the head apparently at random, leading his people on a nighttime killing spree without any surveillance or solid intel about who they're killing, etc. But these obvious lapses are not discussed as lapses, even when other characters have their own lapses considered in depth. Morgan tried to save a Wolf and get him to "come back" as a better person; Carol saw that and tried to just flat-out kill the Wolf; because of each of their single-mindedness about this, they fought stupidly, he escaped, and he almost got Denise killed. Heck, Carol's willingness to outright threaten a child came back and basically got him and his whole family killed. Carol and Morgan are wrestling with the outcomes of their decisions, questioning whether they are right or wrong to do what they do. Carol is even trying to give it all up, because she's tired of killing to save other people. Morgan is doubling down on his "all life is precious" mantra. But Rick? Rick is always the same, and always turns out to be right in the end.
One of the few good things about this most recent episode is the fact that I think we see indications that that might be changing. That was pretty heavily foreshadowed, I think, when Rick started basically quoting the Scarface Philosophy, and it became explicit when Morgan told Rick that, instead of "ending it" with the Saviors, "you just started something." And, yeah, the apple seems annoyingly obvious.
Still, Rick has been treated as so inevitably central to this show, despite being a title character or even very compelling, that it's hard to believe they'll actually forsake him. Whatever happens can only be part of his personal journey. He won't really ever be wrong.
posted by koeselitz at 9:24 AM on March 29, 2016 [11 favorites]
Alan Sepinwall: “... the writers (who, for instance, can't allow Rick to ever be wrong about anything, even though he's often clearly an idiot) ...”
cashman: “Terrible criticism. Rick's been wrong time and time again. I'm not sure if Sepinwall has enough bandwidth to pay attention to the show, because when is Rick not wrong? When does he not make dumb decisions? ”
Eh... I think it's actually good criticism. Sepinwall agrees with you that Rick is constantly wrong and makes dumb decisions. He said right there in his comment that Rick is "often clearly an idiot." The question is whether the writers see him as an idiot, or feel the need to mark out consequences for how really idiotic he is being, or even in any way acknowledge that he's an idiot. They don't let him be wrong – in the sense that every time he makes an idiotic decision that threatens everyone's life it turns out that Rick was right all along, or look Rick is just the best leader we have, or let's not talk about that let's just follow Rick.
I mean, look at the past two seasons. Last season, our heroes blundered into Alexandria, making some noise about how hard they were and how Alexandrians don't know what life is like out on these streets, but meanwhile their fearless leader Rick was being a monumental idiot, as per usual. He was falling in love with the convenient clean-cut nice white housewife – just his type – and acting like a fool toward her husband. He steamrolled over obvious conflicts of interest and political concerns that he must have known he was ignoring and exacerbating (or maybe he really is just that dumb?) and let what should have been a calm, cool exercise of the law for anybody who'd been a real policeman turn into a bloody and vicious brawl in front of the whole town, making himself look like a fool at best or a selfish, violent prick at worst and giving every sane Alexandrian reasons to doubt him. And how did that end up for Rick? He... was proven right when the guy he was beating on ended up being bumblingly clumsy enough to accidentally kill Captain Janeway's husband, and Rick once again got to satisfyingly take down his enemy (and the husband of his love interest) with no moral qualms and a thorough sense of rightness and fairness about the whole thing. It turned out to be a lesson, you see, about how Alexandrians need to trust Rick's leadership and skills, because he, unlike them, can recognize a threat. No words about how he's a loose cannon who is insanely cavalier about beating and killing people and who has seriously compromised moral views.
Then, having cemented his place as the right and true enforcer of the community, even if Captain Janeway kept the reins of political leadership, Rick's first plan was a highly dubious idea to move a buttload of zombies from one place to another place for reasons which remain relatively unclear. When this obviously bad plan fails predictably, and then the Wolves attack and the compound is under siege, everything is very dire, they somehow manage to fight off the Wolves – that still seems pretty dubious to me, but okay – and then the danger becomes the zombies. The threat of the mob of zombies in their compound is again very dire, but at the most desperate moment, Rick steps out of the shadows and valiantly leads a pitched (and, again, dubious) battle against the zombies in the darkness, fueled by his righteous rage, and they once again triumph thanks to Rick's strength and bravery and cunning.
Throughout all this, I grant that there were characters who said things like "Rick is stupid, and he just gets people killed." The problem is that, to a person, these characters were either (a) too weak to see the truth of Rick's superiority, but they soon came around and began to trust and admire him as they ought to; or (b) children of the guy he killed in front of everyone, so of course it turned out that they were just hopelessly damaged, and their blind fury was stupid and got other people and themselves killed, so of course they were wrong and Rick was right all along.
We've seen more examples of Rick being seemingly unaccountably stupid or violent in the past few episodes, too – shooting a Savior in the head apparently at random, leading his people on a nighttime killing spree without any surveillance or solid intel about who they're killing, etc. But these obvious lapses are not discussed as lapses, even when other characters have their own lapses considered in depth. Morgan tried to save a Wolf and get him to "come back" as a better person; Carol saw that and tried to just flat-out kill the Wolf; because of each of their single-mindedness about this, they fought stupidly, he escaped, and he almost got Denise killed. Heck, Carol's willingness to outright threaten a child came back and basically got him and his whole family killed. Carol and Morgan are wrestling with the outcomes of their decisions, questioning whether they are right or wrong to do what they do. Carol is even trying to give it all up, because she's tired of killing to save other people. Morgan is doubling down on his "all life is precious" mantra. But Rick? Rick is always the same, and always turns out to be right in the end.
One of the few good things about this most recent episode is the fact that I think we see indications that that might be changing. That was pretty heavily foreshadowed, I think, when Rick started basically quoting the Scarface Philosophy, and it became explicit when Morgan told Rick that, instead of "ending it" with the Saviors, "you just started something." And, yeah, the apple seems annoyingly obvious.
Still, Rick has been treated as so inevitably central to this show, despite being a title character or even very compelling, that it's hard to believe they'll actually forsake him. Whatever happens can only be part of his personal journey. He won't really ever be wrong.
posted by koeselitz at 9:24 AM on March 29, 2016 [11 favorites]
It was nice that at least when Morgan said that they just started something, Rick actually did look a scared and like maybe he bit off something more than he can chew.
posted by LizBoBiz at 9:43 AM on March 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by LizBoBiz at 9:43 AM on March 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yes Morgan, Owen Wolf changed and saved Denise who was then available to save Carl. But it was only because you buggered about with him that Denise was in danger. Talk about a circle.
posted by unliteral at 7:38 PM on March 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by unliteral at 7:38 PM on March 29, 2016 [3 favorites]
Very well explained koeselitz and escape from the potato planet!
posted by cashman at 7:20 AM on March 30, 2016
posted by cashman at 7:20 AM on March 30, 2016
[Rick] was falling in love with the convenient clean-cut nice white housewife – just his type
It seems like there are very solid indications his romantic involvements can be well outside that type.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:02 AM on March 30, 2016
It seems like there are very solid indications his romantic involvements can be well outside that type.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:02 AM on March 30, 2016
Not until, like, five minutes ago.
posted by tobascodagama at 10:37 AM on March 30, 2016
posted by tobascodagama at 10:37 AM on March 30, 2016
Rick's only had now 3 love interests. His dark-brown haired wife, the blond lady, and now Michonne. I don't think we can really say he has a type, except female.
posted by LizBoBiz at 11:41 AM on March 30, 2016
posted by LizBoBiz at 11:41 AM on March 30, 2016
Rick: "I don't take chances, any more..."
... But I will throw away this useful weapon that is clearly used as tradeable goods in this area....
posted by prismatic7 at 10:50 PM on April 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
... But I will throw away this useful weapon that is clearly used as tradeable goods in this area....
posted by prismatic7 at 10:50 PM on April 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Guns for arms was awesome. I always knew Carol was actually a terminator.
posted by dis_integration at 12:01 PM on April 4, 2016
posted by dis_integration at 12:01 PM on April 4, 2016
I'm thinking one day I'll move out of the suburbs and buy a nice farm in Alexandria, VA. It's so rural! I could probably develop the land and make a few bucks, what with its proximity to DC.
I tryyyyy so hard not to think about this when I'm watching the show, but yeah you have to drive really fricking far from DC for such vast amounts of land and 2 lanes roads with no large buildings visible.
posted by numaner at 4:33 PM on April 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
I tryyyyy so hard not to think about this when I'm watching the show, but yeah you have to drive really fricking far from DC for such vast amounts of land and 2 lanes roads with no large buildings visible.
posted by numaner at 4:33 PM on April 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
It kinda makes sense if you assume that "Alexandria" is not actually Alexandria so much as some suburban development in Culpeper that decided to call itself "Alexandria" for some silly marketing reason.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:43 AM on April 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by tobascodagama at 9:43 AM on April 5, 2016 [1 favorite]
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Recaps
FoxSisters
posted by Sys Rq at 8:09 PM on March 27, 2016 [1 favorite]