Arrow: Monument Point
May 12, 2016 4:35 PM - Season 4, Episode 21 - Subscribe

When Team Arrow learns what Damien Darhk's next move is Felicity realizes she needs to ask her father, Noah Kuttler, for help. Noah and Oliver have a heart to heart talk that leaves Oliver rattled.

Notes:

Felicity wears a cool jacket
Felicity switches the trolley to another track and kills tens of thousands of people, guaranteeing at least one villain will be created.
Felicity & crew pull a heist, magically copying what they need when they can't physically remove it.

Lonnie comes back. He left no impression during his last appearance and I struggle to remember who he is.

Stuff sort of happens on the island. Female turns evil I guess.
posted by FallowKing (24 comments total) 1 user marked this as a favorite
 
So, if the board had the power to terminate Felicity, why didn't they do so sooner? She's the ex-girlfriend of the deceased CEO whose last entry on her resume was 'Sales associate'. Who the heck would let her run a company?

It's not like she was doing a good job either... profits were down and she refused to cut costs. She also wanted to give away expensive medical devices. She also funded her boyfriends mayoral campaign using company funds, I believe, I can't remember verbatim but I'm sure she misappropriated company resources to assist Team Arrow.
And was she ever shown working?.. like for two days in a row.. or did she just come in once every couple weeks?

I'm also wondering why Barry Allen is still employed, and I was thinking the same thing about Laurel before she died. Superhero-ing and full time employment don't work well together.
posted by FallowKing at 4:49 PM on May 12, 2016


I know there's a lot going on in this episode but you like THAT jacket? I was saying during that scene that the costuming department has not been doing her favors lately, with that lightbulb sweater a couple of eps ago and now this raincoat covered in holes.
posted by kittensofthenight at 4:50 PM on May 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


Everything about the Thea plot, even Lonnie, was really fun, especially Thea giving Malcolm shit in their first conversation. The fight scene was well done too, nice to see a stripped down display of what Thea can really do.

Oliver and Diggle are great together, fighting or talking, and I love that Oliver takes the time to be there for Diggle. I could care less about Laurel but if they fridge Lyla I will be so pissed.

There are as always too many nits to pick but I thought this was a good episode and the pacing was great. Just like last season, when I was about ready to check out 3/4ths of the way through, they manage to re-focus the show on our heroes doing shit and it gets good again. I wish that Arrow, Flash et. all only had 10-12 episodes a season. Although that didn't help LoT which managed to find room for at least 50% filler episodes.

Damien Darhk leveling up was fine but as the AV Club noted it kinda fell flat after nuking a city. I agree with that review. A nuclear missile taking out a small American city is just completely off the charts. You could compare it to the earthquaje machine, as Malcolm does, or the bio-weapon attack from the flashbacks last season but it just seems like too much for the show. Maybe because its not a military spy show, and they've been building up to a big magical confrontation, so its a huge development that wasn't built up at all except for the end of last episode and this one. P
posted by kittensofthenight at 5:04 PM on May 12, 2016 [2 favorites]


I can't explain why I like the jacket.

Hmm.. it seems that her wardrobe is well documented..

Is this the light-bulb sweater?
posted by FallowKing at 5:07 PM on May 12, 2016


I may be brainwashed by this point but I'm pretty much all in on the CW DC verse, even more so than the MCU. I think a lot of that has to do with the well written reviews at AV Club. Here's the review for this episode.

The critics there manage to capture what is so fun and compelling about the shows, without misplaced snark or fanboy nonsense. Unlike the Comics Alliance reviews, who hate the shows and are mostly there for their own amusement and unfunny gif making. That's what Tumblr is for!
posted by kittensofthenight at 5:10 PM on May 12, 2016 [1 favorite]


Oh that is the lightbulb sweater! Not as bad in that picture, I just remembered snarking about it during that episode. I've always loved Felicity and my partner dislikes who whole thing, so its become a thing in our house that her wardrobe has gone downhill this season. Like at least the rivet jacket should be black for a heist, right?

(Thanks for posting this BTW!)
posted by kittensofthenight at 5:13 PM on May 12, 2016


I'm also wondering why Barry Allen is still employed, and I was thinking the same thing about Laurel before she died.

Barry Allen is a forensic tech who seems to work alone in an isolated lab. So he comes in in the morning, speedsters his way through his work load in 7 minutes, and then spends the rest of the day superheroing.

Way easier than having to be a full time CEO at normal speed.

Also, didn't Ray leave his interest in Palmer Tech to Felicity? He must have, because you can't leave a CEO job to someone in your will.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:14 PM on May 12, 2016


The only one I don't watch is Supergirl. I watched some of the first one and decided it wasn't for me.
I nit-pick because I care. I know they can do better. (Like by setting up some basic rules for time travel)



Also, didn't Ray leave his interest in Palmer Tech to Felicity? He must have, because you can't leave a CEO job to someone in your will.

Ray was able to will his CEO title because.......... He's ant man. And ant men can will positions like that. It's Star city law. (I realized last week that he's also Superman.)
posted by FallowKing at 5:28 PM on May 12, 2016


So Thea wouldn't tell her boyfriend about her super hero activities, but she told the crazy bad guy her civilian name. Surely that won't have any negative consequences for her or the rest of the team down the line.

I get that Donna is big into honesty, but jeopardizing Quentin's job isn't helpful in the least. And what is she going to do when she finds out what her daughter and her daughter's ex have been up to? That's going to definitely torpedo the relationship anyways, won't it?
posted by sardonyx at 6:25 PM on May 12, 2016


Ray Palmer is Atom ;) But like Ant-Man, the rules do not apply. Atom can do whatever Atom wants to do and there is nothing we can do about it.

Soooo what happened to Curtis? I'm thinking I missed an episode. I was all psyched when Curtis took over for Felicity, thinking that Terrific things were gonna happen. Then he disappeared (?). Did something happen?

I love this show. I have not watched from the beginning though. At first I couldn't get into the flashbacks at all but I'm starting to enjoy them, mostly because I want to see what happens to Taiana.

So if you know don't tell me.
posted by the webmistress at 7:57 PM on May 12, 2016


Nobody knows why Curtis wasn't in this episode. It would have made perfect sense for Felicity to call him up, ask him to go to the lab and retrieve the processor. The only explanation is an out-of-show one: the actor isn't a regular this season. I guess he only signed on to do X episodes and this would have made it X plus one.

Taiana is new this season, so all we know about her is what we've presented with so far. So we're all in the same boat as you (with the exception that we know Oliver has ties to the Russian underworld--whether they're through her or somebody else is up for speculation). Hope that helps.
posted by sardonyx at 8:41 PM on May 12, 2016


Nobody knows why Curtis wasn't in this episode. It would have made perfect sense for Felicity to call him up, ask him to go to the lab and retrieve the processor.

That's why he wasn't in the episode. So there was an excuse for Team Arrow to have a stairwell punchup and for the hacking attempt to be imperfect because they didn't have the chip.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 9:55 PM on May 12, 2016


Nobody knows why Curtis wasn't in this episode.

And the episode was poorer for it.

But, are we going to talk about how Felicity smoked a town with a nuke?
Because that is some 'going to Za'ha'dum' change there.

Team Arrow to have a stairwell punchup

That was great.
Not only did Daredevil do it better, we got to see Arrow "Captain America" through some guys who were making minimum age doing their jobs.

Palmertech security were remarkably competent.

Yeah, the Donna/Lance thing was.. odd. She snooped. Is that not a realationship dealbreaker.

On the other hand, Cyprus Cove must be near Cyprus Swamp, right?

Also, didn't Ray leave his interest in Palmer Tech to Felicity? He must have, because you can't leave a CEO job to someone in your will.

My understanding of .AU law is based on that (and America has laws which, amazingly, there isn't the requirement that the CEO and Chairman roles of larger companies should be separate, and that the chair should be independent.

Yes, think Felicity was given the controlling interest, so she can be fired as CEO, but cannot be ousted should she be a director (the show is unclear, but that seems the case) until the shareholders vote.

I am doubting the veracity of corporate law in Star City, is what I am saying.

But, considering ..... remember when the ghosts were unstoppable? Or that time they built an under suburb under Star City and no one noticed all the earth moving?
posted by Mezentian at 2:21 AM on May 13, 2016


But, are we going to talk about how Felicity smoked a town with a nuke?
Because that is some 'going to Za'ha'dum' change there.


Honestly, I have no idea what to do with that situation at all. It was just so ridiculous and over-the-top, and at this point I have no faith that the show has a clue on how to deal with it or have its characters react to it. I'm sure it will be swept under the rug as quickly as possible with possibly the tiny exception the destroyed town will suddenly become ground zero for new metahuman creation. Even if that's the case, however, I can't see too many good characters coming out of that scenario. Captaian Atom? Maybe, but I think he'd be overkill power-wise in this series. Red Star? Whichever Firestorm rogues the Flash hasn't co-opted? I really have no idea.
posted by sardonyx at 7:39 AM on May 13, 2016


Nobody knows why Curtis wasn't in this episode.

The only reason I can think of is that the actor was cast in something else. He's been gone for a while now.

I watched this epsidode and I was all like "Finally, Arrow's back, the Berlanti slump is ending!!

But then I realized all the other shows might have just lowered my expectations...

I remember when a heart-to-heart between Diggle and Oliver would have had either an emotional payoff or a really funny quip as a button. But no more!

I was wondering when Felicity would get fired. I don't think that was a surprise, they've been hinting around that for a while. I really want a scene where she has to fess up to Oliver, who would be all like "See" It's not so easy being CEO, is it? IS IT?!?!" and then it turns out Malcolm Merlin is the new CEO.

I'm really glad Donna is getting to develop as a character. She's mostly just doing emotional labor for other characters at this point, but I like her and I hope she sticks around. Also, hooray for a show that has another role for a woman who's not just another 20-year-old hottie.

I like American Jonathan Pryce as Noah Cutler, I just wish not every line of his had to be about how much he cares for Felicity. He's really been let off the hook. When he said something along the lines of "I just realized I didn't have what it takes to be a good father" I really wanted Felicity to say "Yeah, well no one feels that way, You know what most people do? They stick around, take care of their responsibilities and figure it out as they go!"

I like Neal McDonough, always have (Damien Dahrk in CWDC... Dum Dum Dugan in the MCU... what's up with all the D initials?) but having him have a SECOND totem just feels like filler. I'm not sure I think it's the best thing for the show to nuke an American town, but I have to say I do admire the writers for actually following through on that threat instead of having it be meaningless stakes-raising that never goes anywhere.

Although I was screaming at the TV "That's not how ballistic missiles work!!!!"

They keep edging Thea toward taking control of her own life, but they never quite get her there. Are they just afraid she'll be too interesting, and they can't write scripts that do her justice? I really want an episode where Thea has no fucks to give and everyone just needs to pick a side - with her or against her. I really like John Barrowman and it would suck to get rid of him, but Thea really just needs to kill the fuck out of him once and for all.

Also, I think Lila has a lot of potential, if they could just get her out from being a plot device to being a character there's a lot of good stuff that could happen. I like the actor, and I like that she's not a typical ingenue type.

Overall, Arrow has come out on top this week in the Berlantiverse IMO, although I'm not sure how much of an honor that is.

(I have to pretend I haven't seen Legends of Tomorrow so my SO doesn't find out I've been Tivo cheating on her.)

PS - I'm confident Laurel's not dead. She'll come back in the season finale, with a flashback about how Oliver gave her a drug to fake her death when he went in to see her before she "died"...

And a personal request - can we get Colin Salmon back? I thought he was great as Walter, then after I saw Master of None I just fell in love with him as an actor. Dear god, if they could find an interesting way to work Walter into the plot how amazing would it be to have him back?
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 10:02 PM on May 13, 2016


I love this show. I have not watched from the beginning though. At first I couldn't get into the flashbacks at all but I'm starting to enjoy them, mostly because I want to see what happens to Taiana.

I actually really liked the flashbacks in the first couple of seasons once I realized the show was really committed to them. It felt very much like the writers were doing a good job of essentially giving us two parallel stories that informed each other. I think it ultimately got away from them a bit after the second season, but the flashbacks, which I was initially iffy about, ended up being something I really liked.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 10:12 PM on May 13, 2016


Okay, also, can I just say that the whole fight choreography/cinematography/stunt gags aspect of this show has never disappointed? I think audiences get so used to the way TV is shot, and stuff like this just blows by, but the people who coordinate and perform that stuff are doing top-level work here. They do so much with real people doing real stunts that are legit amazing if you take a moment to observe, and shooting action with multiple cameras that cut together seamlessly... some episodes obviously have budget constraints, but in general the units responsible for staging and shooting the action on this show are just doing top-level work in their field regardless of whether the writers are carrying their weight in any given week.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 10:25 PM on May 13, 2016


I am doubting the veracity of corporate law in Star City, is what I am saying.

Dear Ask.Metafilter,

YANML, TINLA. I'm the CEO of a large tech company in... let's say Boston (not really Boston). I might also be on the board - it's not really clear...

My most recent boyfriend (Let's call him "The A" (actually (ex-)fiance (who I was kind of in love with before I got together with my next boyfriend)) was originally CEO (it was his family's company), then it got taken over by a different boyfriend of mine, the next one after The A (let's call him "The A"... wait... different "A"... Let's call him "R." (R signed documents making me the "head of the company" (whatever that means) upon his exit from the company. He subsequently died... or not... it's really not clear, and the legal reality surrounding his "death" or whatever is not completely clear. ) I've been avoiding meetings with board members, shareholders and other stakeholders, but my admittedly ill-formed impression is that I'm ultimately "in charge" and "untouchable."

I guess my question boils down to, should I try to pay attention to my "job" so I can retain access to all the resources that make my avocational activities possible? Or should I blow them off and not worry about stuff like that when I'm really just interested in hacking in pursuit of some narrow idea of "justice" for the population of the metroplex where I live? I mean, things will probably work out for the best, right?

Please be kind, I've only been doing this for four years.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 10:50 PM on May 13, 2016 [6 favorites]


having him have a SECOND totem just feels like filler.

Isn't it the same idol, put back together? Thus the missing piece which for some reason couldn't just be thrown into the marianas trench.
posted by phearlez at 11:55 AM on May 17, 2016


Isn't it the same idol, put back together? Thus the missing piece which for some reason couldn't just be thrown into the marianas trench.

Yes, it is. Although the decision to reassemble it but for one piece is still completely irrational. Was Oliver up late in the arrowcave with a magnifying glass and some gorilla glue?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 10:59 PM on May 19, 2016


This episode was co-written by someone named Speed Weed. Not kidding.

Actually, Speed Weed is an exec producer and is pretty accomplished, according to iMDb.

Wow. Just. WOW.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:34 AM on May 20, 2016


Vinnie Jones is to Cockney thugs as Bob Marley is to reggae.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:43 AM on May 20, 2016


Note to mods: this is Season 4, not Season 5.
posted by numaner at 9:04 AM on May 25, 2016


I can't exactly blame the board for firing Felicity. Really, even if you're fending off nukes, you can't just not kiss the asses of people who want you to make them feel important and shit.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:50 PM on June 11, 2016


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