The Flash: Paradox
October 12, 2016 8:20 PM - Season 3, Episode 2 - Subscribe
Barry tries to come to terms with the changes he caused by resetting the timeline.
So to sum up the changes (that we know about):
1. John Diggle's daughter Sara is now a son (supposedly these are the only changes affecting Arrow characters).
2. Cisco's brother Dante is dead.
3. Barry has a new CSI co-worker who is assigned to the metahuman cases, and who hates Barry.
4. Wally is (temporarily?) powerless.
5. Iris' mother may or may not be alive (they didn't mention that she had died). Either way, hiding that info caused a rift between Iris and Joe.
6. Caitlin is (or is becoming) Killer Frost.
7. Cisco is developing his Vibe powers (via technology).
And apparently there is no issue crossing back and forth between Earth-1 and Earth-2 again as Henry Allen doppleganger Flash jumps into Barry's Earth-1 speedforce trip to stop him from resetting the timeline yet again, so I guess all that effort expended last season into closing the portals between the earths was for nothing in the new world order.
So to sum up the changes (that we know about):
1. John Diggle's daughter Sara is now a son (supposedly these are the only changes affecting Arrow characters).
2. Cisco's brother Dante is dead.
3. Barry has a new CSI co-worker who is assigned to the metahuman cases, and who hates Barry.
4. Wally is (temporarily?) powerless.
5. Iris' mother may or may not be alive (they didn't mention that she had died). Either way, hiding that info caused a rift between Iris and Joe.
6. Caitlin is (or is becoming) Killer Frost.
7. Cisco is developing his Vibe powers (via technology).
And apparently there is no issue crossing back and forth between Earth-1 and Earth-2 again as Henry Allen doppleganger Flash jumps into Barry's Earth-1 speedforce trip to stop him from resetting the timeline yet again, so I guess all that effort expended last season into closing the portals between the earths was for nothing in the new world order.
Is Cisco going to be the Chief O'Brien of this show? Is he just going to be kicked around every time the writers need to gin up some pathos?
I have to confess that I'm losing my faith a little bit. The last part of season 2 was a mess, and the first couple of episodes of this season are just compounding that. All the changes to the characters--and knowing that they are inevitably going to hit the reset button yet again-- have made it really hard to stay invested.
On the other hand, I do like John Wesley Shipp as Jay Garrick. That's working for me.
posted by MrBadExample at 9:17 PM on October 12, 2016
I have to confess that I'm losing my faith a little bit. The last part of season 2 was a mess, and the first couple of episodes of this season are just compounding that. All the changes to the characters--and knowing that they are inevitably going to hit the reset button yet again-- have made it really hard to stay invested.
On the other hand, I do like John Wesley Shipp as Jay Garrick. That's working for me.
posted by MrBadExample at 9:17 PM on October 12, 2016
All the changes to the characters--and knowing that they are inevitably going to hit the reset button yet again-- have made it really hard to stay invested.
I am an idiot* because I kind of sort of believe the implicit promise that Barry will stop doing this. Maybe I just want to believe it? I didn't like sad Cisco either but then he seemed more or less the same at the end, so hopefully that won't be a recurring thing. I'm not done with this show, like I finally am with Arrow, but I really hope we can put the time travel nonsense behind us for a while and focus on things that make sense, like giant shark people and telepathic gorillas.
*But not enough of one to let the fun looking trailer and promise of JSA characters suck me back into Legends of Tomorrow. Probably. Maybe. Hopefully.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:43 AM on October 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
I am an idiot* because I kind of sort of believe the implicit promise that Barry will stop doing this. Maybe I just want to believe it? I didn't like sad Cisco either but then he seemed more or less the same at the end, so hopefully that won't be a recurring thing. I'm not done with this show, like I finally am with Arrow, but I really hope we can put the time travel nonsense behind us for a while and focus on things that make sense, like giant shark people and telepathic gorillas.
*But not enough of one to let the fun looking trailer and promise of JSA characters suck me back into Legends of Tomorrow. Probably. Maybe. Hopefully.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:43 AM on October 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
And apparently there is no issue crossing back and forth between Earth-1 and Earth-2 again as Henry Allen doppleganger Flash jumps into Barry's Earth-1 speedforce trip to stop him from resetting the timeline yet again, so I guess all that effort expended last season into closing the portals between the earths was for nothing in the new world order.
I read it as Earth-2 Flash being experienced enough in time travel that he could sense Barry dinking around with the timestream, and he reached through the timestream, rather than simply across worlds, to reach him. That may be splitting hairs, and it does leave open the possibility of more alt-earth jumping, but by adding the imperfect time angle, it does show some limits/unpredictable-to-the-point-of-not-being-regularly-useful-issues too.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:39 AM on October 13, 2016
I read it as Earth-2 Flash being experienced enough in time travel that he could sense Barry dinking around with the timestream, and he reached through the timestream, rather than simply across worlds, to reach him. That may be splitting hairs, and it does leave open the possibility of more alt-earth jumping, but by adding the imperfect time angle, it does show some limits/unpredictable-to-the-point-of-not-being-regularly-useful-issues too.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:39 AM on October 13, 2016
I had sort of suspected that the Dawson's Creek diner was somehow between Earths or inside the Speed Force or something. I didn't think that Earth-2 Flash just pulled Barry into Earth-2, but I could easily be wrong.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:50 AM on October 13, 2016
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:50 AM on October 13, 2016
If the diner was in the Speed Force, why would civilian clothes be necessary? Additionally, Barry asks, "Is that why you pulled me out of the Speed Force? To buy me a meal?"
When I was typing up the post, I originally wrote "Jay Garrick Flash" and then I realized that wasn't necessarily accurate. Given the changes, do we know what the Earth-2 Flash's name actually is? When they meet in this episode, they acknowledge each other as "Flash." Do changes made on the Earth-1 timeline affect other earths? Or does the fact that Barry interacted with Earth-2 people while on Earth-1 put them in line for potential Flashpoint alterations?
I swear I've put more thought into this stuff than some of the show's actual writers have. It shouldn't be this frustrating to watch a TV show.
posted by sardonyx at 8:30 AM on October 13, 2016
When I was typing up the post, I originally wrote "Jay Garrick Flash" and then I realized that wasn't necessarily accurate. Given the changes, do we know what the Earth-2 Flash's name actually is? When they meet in this episode, they acknowledge each other as "Flash." Do changes made on the Earth-1 timeline affect other earths? Or does the fact that Barry interacted with Earth-2 people while on Earth-1 put them in line for potential Flashpoint alterations?
I swear I've put more thought into this stuff than some of the show's actual writers have. It shouldn't be this frustrating to watch a TV show.
posted by sardonyx at 8:30 AM on October 13, 2016
Yeah, I thought they might be inside the Speed Force, too. It seemed last season that the Speed Force appears to speedsters (as a place) in a form they find comforting and palatable, and if Jay has a sentimental attachment to this diner as it was in 1990, that would add up. Or maybe Barry was in fact going to 1990 when Jay stopped him -- it wasn't really made clear how Barry intended to change the timeline this time. By design or just due to sloppiness (I never know for sure when it comes to The Flash), the show left a lot of things vague.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:35 AM on October 13, 2016
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:35 AM on October 13, 2016
Bulgaroktonos
I haven't caught last night's episode yet, but Arrow may be worth your attention again. The flashbacks are in Russia. They're building a new team of 1980s DC D-list characters. I've got my fingers crossed hoping they're finally back on track. Plus there are supposed to be crossovers galore this year. (Arrow + Supergirl) and the big four-way (Arrow + Flash + Legends + Supergirl).
posted by sardonyx at 8:45 AM on October 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
I haven't caught last night's episode yet, but Arrow may be worth your attention again. The flashbacks are in Russia. They're building a new team of 1980s DC D-list characters. I've got my fingers crossed hoping they're finally back on track. Plus there are supposed to be crossovers galore this year. (Arrow + Supergirl) and the big four-way (Arrow + Flash + Legends + Supergirl).
posted by sardonyx at 8:45 AM on October 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
I swear I've put more thought into this stuff than some of the show's actual writers have. It shouldn't be this frustrating to watch a TV show.
I've got my fingers crossed hoping they're finally back on track.
Sometimes these threads feel like a support group for people in an bad relationship with a TV universe.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:49 AM on October 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
I've got my fingers crossed hoping they're finally back on track.
Sometimes these threads feel like a support group for people in an bad relationship with a TV universe.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:49 AM on October 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
But yeah I'll probably come back to Arrow eventually, depending on how much crossovers demand it.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:52 AM on October 13, 2016
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:52 AM on October 13, 2016
I thought this was a decent course correction from the previous week's nonsense. At the least, they've given the show a clear path forward by sticking with this time line and not having Barry impulsively travel back in time. We'll see how long that lasts though!
posted by plastic_animals at 10:47 AM on October 14, 2016
posted by plastic_animals at 10:47 AM on October 14, 2016
Ugh, making a girl into a boy. So is the rest of Arrow just going to have had the baby have a sex change without addressing it to any audience members who don't watch The Flash?
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:49 PM on October 15, 2016
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:49 PM on October 15, 2016
Given the way most tv shows steadily ignore offspring till they effectively ghost once they would be walking, talking humans I am not sure this would ever be noticed.
What would be REALLY great is if Arrow just ignored this on its own show - the way comics should just ignore shit instead of slavish, problem-creating attention to continuity - but I have no faith in them doing that.
posted by phearlez at 6:27 AM on October 16, 2016
What would be REALLY great is if Arrow just ignored this on its own show - the way comics should just ignore shit instead of slavish, problem-creating attention to continuity - but I have no faith in them doing that.
posted by phearlez at 6:27 AM on October 16, 2016
I realize I forgot to ask this before; did anyone else think it looked like Shipp had gotten too many visits from the botox fairy or was it just standard HD makeup and they hasn't given him that tight a close up in previous seasons? It was kinda weirding me out in the diner scene.
Aside from that, MAN it was cool to see Jay suited up and out in the world. More please!
posted by phearlez at 12:13 PM on October 17, 2016
Aside from that, MAN it was cool to see Jay suited up and out in the world. More please!
posted by phearlez at 12:13 PM on October 17, 2016
Nobody's talking about Draco Malfoy? that threw me big time
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 11:37 PM on December 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 11:37 PM on December 4, 2016 [1 favorite]
Nobody's talking about Draco Malfoy? that threw me big time
I didn't realise. I stopped watching the harry potter movies after Prisoner. I assumed he was just a random British actor.
I was also focused on Alchemy being voiced by Jigsaw (From the Saw movies)
posted by FallowKing at 12:24 PM on December 5, 2016
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
Not happy about Cisco getting angstified. Doesn't Barry supply enough tragically-dead-relatives for the whole show? Or Caitlin and her love interests? Ugh. I hope they use this branching of the timeline to give us back a Captain Cold at least.
posted by oh yeah! at 9:01 PM on October 12, 2016