Legends of Tomorrow: Invasion!
December 1, 2016 9:07 PM - Season 2, Episode 7 - Subscribe
The crossover event concludes with the Legends, the Flash, Supergirl, and Green Arrow working together to defeat the alien Dominators once and for all. Meanwhile, Stein figures out how the team can terminate the Dominators, but he's distracted by the abberation he realizes he created in 1987.
What was cut from the Arrowverse crossover?
'Arrow' boss Marc Guggenheim & 'The Flash' EP Andrew Kreisberg share what could've been
My favorite of the list:
Speedy says what we’re all thinking: “There was a funny scene between Speedy and H.R. [Tom Cavanagh] where she says, ‘So what are you doing here? What value do you bring?’” Kreisberg says. “He’s like, ‘Well I’m writing a book,’ and she’s like, ‘Oh, that’ll be a big help,’ and walks away.”
posted by Servo5678 at 6:33 AM on December 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
'Arrow' boss Marc Guggenheim & 'The Flash' EP Andrew Kreisberg share what could've been
My favorite of the list:
Speedy says what we’re all thinking: “There was a funny scene between Speedy and H.R. [Tom Cavanagh] where she says, ‘So what are you doing here? What value do you bring?’” Kreisberg says. “He’s like, ‘Well I’m writing a book,’ and she’s like, ‘Oh, that’ll be a big help,’ and walks away.”
posted by Servo5678 at 6:33 AM on December 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
I wish we'd get more out of Vixen's power. How is summoning an elephant different from summoning a gorilla outside of the CGI?
I did have to stifle a giggle when Vixen gave herself the power of an elephant and then immediately went into a flying spin kick maneuver, because you know elephants do those all the time.
Not really feeling the subplot with Stein and his daughter. His standoffishness seemed to mostly register as early-onset dementia from her POV, and I don't know why they didn't do more with that. And I definitely don't get why Stein thinks of her as a time aberration right off the bat instead of just taking it in stride. Maybe they'll find out that she's responsible for unleashing a nanotech "grey goo" apocalypse, but for right now he should still be in the thrilled-disbelief stage.
posted by Strange Interlude at 7:04 AM on December 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
I did have to stifle a giggle when Vixen gave herself the power of an elephant and then immediately went into a flying spin kick maneuver, because you know elephants do those all the time.
Not really feeling the subplot with Stein and his daughter. His standoffishness seemed to mostly register as early-onset dementia from her POV, and I don't know why they didn't do more with that. And I definitely don't get why Stein thinks of her as a time aberration right off the bat instead of just taking it in stride. Maybe they'll find out that she's responsible for unleashing a nanotech "grey goo" apocalypse, but for right now he should still be in the thrilled-disbelief stage.
posted by Strange Interlude at 7:04 AM on December 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
I wish they'd cut Mick's line about the President being hot; doubling down by having Sara join in on the 'I'd hit that-o-meter' doesn't make it less gross & disrespectful.
Overall though, kudos to the productions for pulling this off, and can't wait for the musical.
posted by oh yeah! at 7:35 AM on December 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Overall though, kudos to the productions for pulling this off, and can't wait for the musical.
posted by oh yeah! at 7:35 AM on December 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
That was fun. I was a little confused at the "total victory" attitude, though. What's to stop the aliens from making another bomb and just drop it on earth without warning?
posted by transient at 10:17 AM on December 2, 2016
posted by transient at 10:17 AM on December 2, 2016
I'm glad I'm not the only one confused about Vixen's powers.
posted by plastic_animals at 4:46 PM on December 2, 2016
posted by plastic_animals at 4:46 PM on December 2, 2016
I haven't watched any of the crossover episodes yet, and I'm over a season behind on The Flash and Arrow. Is it okay/worth it to watch those two crossover eps without being up to date? Is it okay/worth it to watch this episode without watching those two? Or should I just skip the whole shebang?
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 6:04 PM on December 2, 2016
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 6:04 PM on December 2, 2016
I'm way behind on all of these shows, and I just watched these four episodes, not even in order, and had fun. The "previouslies" take care of most of it. Skip the Supergirl installment if you just want to follow the crossover; it's pretty much just Flash showing up at the end and saying hello, and the scene gets repeated in the Flash episode. The other three are worth it, though.
posted by transient at 6:31 PM on December 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by transient at 6:31 PM on December 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
You can also probably skip Arrow, as it was more of a Arrow episode than a crossover, but if you're only a season behind on Arrow, you should be fine. You'll know who everybody is and why they're brought back. Be warned, though, both Flash and Arrow address the death of a major Arrow character, so just know you'll be encountering a spoiler or two.
Overall, the conclusion was satisfying. It was a better episode than Arrow, but not quite as solid as Flash, meaning I can't help but focusing on some problems.
Why did Nate say he had to research where the aliens were? Didn't Joe and Lyla already discuss their attack against the army in the 1950s and say explicitly exactly when and where they were? Yes, we know Nate is terrible, but he doesn't need to be this bad.
Speaking of Nate, the uniform is awful, the helmet is worse and the eye shadow is an abomination. It's not like he's a well-known billionaire playboy politician who everybody would recognize, especially given that he's jumping through time where nobody would even care who he is--well that is except for the problem of identities created by this episode.
Since when could the president just call up the Super Friends (I'm using that name and not JLA because of the HQ. Squee! More Hall of Justice!). I could see that maybe she could pass word to Lyla who could funnel things through "back channels" (cough) to pass a message along, but this made it sound like the White House could just pick up the Batphone and bark orders? When did that happen? Especially given that the whole group isn't really a team in the conventional sense.
And even assuming the president has the Super Friends on speed dial, who in their right mind thought it was a good idea to just invite everybody to the STAR Labs satellite Hall of Justice location? Seriously, they think it's a great idea to publicize STAR's connection to the super hero community? (I was going to say the cape and cowl set, but seeing Kara's the only one sporting a cape, that phrasing doesn't really apply.) And on a similar note, Kara and company think it's a good idea to tell government types about alternative earths and dimensional travel? Yeah, because that won't backfire.
When it comes to team assignments there were a lot dumb things going on, starting with Oliver benching Kara and the Legends trio of Mick, Amaya and Nate plus Cisco and Felicity going back to find an alien to interrogate. Nate and Amaya are too new to time travel, and while Mick should be a competent captain given his time working for the Time Masters, it appears the writers have decided to dumb him down and downplay those skills, so they should have had somebody else in a senior command position along for the mission. Of course they also dumbed down Sara who needed Cisco to tell her to use the tractor beam.
Another thing that didn't make sense was Oliver making the call to trip the alien torture device. It should have been Felicity who could see when all the devices were planted or Kara and Barry who would have been able to say "all done." (I'm going to leave aside objections about the plan itself as they've been addressed by earlier posters.)
I did like the way they wrapped things up, with Oliver and Kara and Barry, then Oliver and Sara, then Barry and Oliver. That was nice, going back to the origins of the DCCW shows and universe.
Overall, despite my complaints here and on the Arrow thread, it was a pretty good effort at a complex crossover with a whole lot of characters. I got the impression that with the changes to the Supergirl production getting everybody included was a bit rushed together. I'd like to think that with a whole year to plan, next year's will be even better, and I'll be looking forward to it.
posted by sardonyx at 9:32 PM on December 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Overall, the conclusion was satisfying. It was a better episode than Arrow, but not quite as solid as Flash, meaning I can't help but focusing on some problems.
Why did Nate say he had to research where the aliens were? Didn't Joe and Lyla already discuss their attack against the army in the 1950s and say explicitly exactly when and where they were? Yes, we know Nate is terrible, but he doesn't need to be this bad.
Speaking of Nate, the uniform is awful, the helmet is worse and the eye shadow is an abomination. It's not like he's a well-known billionaire playboy politician who everybody would recognize, especially given that he's jumping through time where nobody would even care who he is--well that is except for the problem of identities created by this episode.
Since when could the president just call up the Super Friends (I'm using that name and not JLA because of the HQ. Squee! More Hall of Justice!). I could see that maybe she could pass word to Lyla who could funnel things through "back channels" (cough) to pass a message along, but this made it sound like the White House could just pick up the Batphone and bark orders? When did that happen? Especially given that the whole group isn't really a team in the conventional sense.
And even assuming the president has the Super Friends on speed dial, who in their right mind thought it was a good idea to just invite everybody to the STAR Labs satellite Hall of Justice location? Seriously, they think it's a great idea to publicize STAR's connection to the super hero community? (I was going to say the cape and cowl set, but seeing Kara's the only one sporting a cape, that phrasing doesn't really apply.) And on a similar note, Kara and company think it's a good idea to tell government types about alternative earths and dimensional travel? Yeah, because that won't backfire.
When it comes to team assignments there were a lot dumb things going on, starting with Oliver benching Kara and the Legends trio of Mick, Amaya and Nate plus Cisco and Felicity going back to find an alien to interrogate. Nate and Amaya are too new to time travel, and while Mick should be a competent captain given his time working for the Time Masters, it appears the writers have decided to dumb him down and downplay those skills, so they should have had somebody else in a senior command position along for the mission. Of course they also dumbed down Sara who needed Cisco to tell her to use the tractor beam.
Another thing that didn't make sense was Oliver making the call to trip the alien torture device. It should have been Felicity who could see when all the devices were planted or Kara and Barry who would have been able to say "all done." (I'm going to leave aside objections about the plan itself as they've been addressed by earlier posters.)
I did like the way they wrapped things up, with Oliver and Kara and Barry, then Oliver and Sara, then Barry and Oliver. That was nice, going back to the origins of the DCCW shows and universe.
Overall, despite my complaints here and on the Arrow thread, it was a pretty good effort at a complex crossover with a whole lot of characters. I got the impression that with the changes to the Supergirl production getting everybody included was a bit rushed together. I'd like to think that with a whole year to plan, next year's will be even better, and I'll be looking forward to it.
posted by sardonyx at 9:32 PM on December 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
"darmok and jalad at tanagra"
posted by idb at 4:16 PM on December 3, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by idb at 4:16 PM on December 3, 2016 [7 favorites]
Oliver benching Kara was ... very transparently because the writers didn't have a role for her in the rest of the episode. Ouch. Supergirl felt shoehorned in, in all three episodes. I expect they already had this outlined when she joined the CW.
I wonder if the writers just ... feel the need to remind us that Sara is gay? All the time? At least, every episode that might draw in new viewers (i.e. season premieres and crossovers) they make sure to mention it. Not actually complaining, I've ranted about explicit representation enough. but yeah this episode's gay moment was kinda gross. Is it less gross if I imagine the president/former VP is someone like Sarah Palin? who knows
the bits with Stein and his daughter coulda had a lot more schmaltz, i'm just sayin
i mean nineteen freaking characters make it a little hard, but Oliver had a really affecting scene on the Flash episode, it's not impossible.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 11:33 PM on December 4, 2016
I wonder if the writers just ... feel the need to remind us that Sara is gay? All the time? At least, every episode that might draw in new viewers (i.e. season premieres and crossovers) they make sure to mention it. Not actually complaining, I've ranted about explicit representation enough. but yeah this episode's gay moment was kinda gross. Is it less gross if I imagine the president/former VP is someone like Sarah Palin? who knows
the bits with Stein and his daughter coulda had a lot more schmaltz, i'm just sayin
i mean nineteen freaking characters make it a little hard, but Oliver had a really affecting scene on the Flash episode, it's not impossible.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 11:33 PM on December 4, 2016
Oliver benching Kara was ... very transparently because the writers didn't have a role for her in the rest of the episode.
Through all the episodes I thought it was more because they were all too aware that in contrast to the others she's essentially a living god.
It's the standard problem in any medium with crossovers featuring heroes of varying power levels. Heroes and villains are always pegged against each other power-wise in their own setting, for obvious reasons. Cross them over into a universe populated by villains pegged against "weaker" heroes though and the cross over hero is instantly a deus ex machina.
That was why they had to have Kara mindcontrolled on Flash, drop her out of the A Plot completely on Arrow and then find a way to bench her for much of this episode - because, quite frankly, if they'd let her loose then (especially with Barry's help) she's instant plot resolution.
Which, in a way, is ultimately what happens - not only is the fight at the end gratuitous but it accomplished nothing. Every single one of the devices placed by Oliver at al could have just as easily been placed by Flash and Kara at super-speed.
So actually, in the end, I was rather impressed with how that was all handled throughout the crossover - rather than leveling Kara down for the duration of the crossover, they openly acknowledged she could wipe the floor with the entire team in Flash and allowed her to sell it in character as a "I'm loving this but I'm also so embarrassed" thing. Then they at least tried to find legitimate reasons to keep her out of the way until she could be a useful (but not dominating) part of the ultimate resolution.
So yeah, credit where credit is due there.
posted by garius at 6:16 AM on December 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
Through all the episodes I thought it was more because they were all too aware that in contrast to the others she's essentially a living god.
It's the standard problem in any medium with crossovers featuring heroes of varying power levels. Heroes and villains are always pegged against each other power-wise in their own setting, for obvious reasons. Cross them over into a universe populated by villains pegged against "weaker" heroes though and the cross over hero is instantly a deus ex machina.
That was why they had to have Kara mindcontrolled on Flash, drop her out of the A Plot completely on Arrow and then find a way to bench her for much of this episode - because, quite frankly, if they'd let her loose then (especially with Barry's help) she's instant plot resolution.
Which, in a way, is ultimately what happens - not only is the fight at the end gratuitous but it accomplished nothing. Every single one of the devices placed by Oliver at al could have just as easily been placed by Flash and Kara at super-speed.
So actually, in the end, I was rather impressed with how that was all handled throughout the crossover - rather than leveling Kara down for the duration of the crossover, they openly acknowledged she could wipe the floor with the entire team in Flash and allowed her to sell it in character as a "I'm loving this but I'm also so embarrassed" thing. Then they at least tried to find legitimate reasons to keep her out of the way until she could be a useful (but not dominating) part of the ultimate resolution.
So yeah, credit where credit is due there.
posted by garius at 6:16 AM on December 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
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posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:48 AM on December 2, 2016 [2 favorites]