Legion: Speculation and book spoilers ahoy!   Books Included 
March 5, 2017 4:25 PM - Season 1 (Full Season) - Subscribe

Let's discuss Legion, including the comic books! So we can speculate about the Devil with Yellow Eyes!

This post follows a suggestion from oh yeah!
posted by Pronoiac (24 comments total) 2 users marked this as a favorite
Offline, Politikitty suggested the Shadow King as a probable candidate for the Devil with Yellow Eyes.

Rewatching earlier eps: in the breakout in ep 1, who has fire powers? Everyone there had other powers accounted for:
* Syd's body swap
* Ptonomy's memory work
* a telekinetic who sent people flying
* and David
posted by Pronoiac at 4:53 PM on March 5

It's either Shadow King which comes directly from the Legion comics or an outside bet being Mojo of the Mojoverse.
posted by 80 Cats in a Dog Suit at 6:49 AM on March 6

posted by 80 Cats in a Dog Suit at 7:25 AM on March 6

We've been thinking MOJO at our house, because of the evil smile and general appearance. Does the Shadow King look like anything in particular?
posted by happyroach at 11:02 AM on March 6

Shadow King doesn't really have a body of his own. He inhabits people and the hosts get morbidly obese. At least the last time I read something with him in it. He was more a demonic entity.

Mojo would make sense in that they can make a statement about reality television and producers, and also explain how this is all a parallel universe slightly connected to the current Marvel television universe. Marvel film and television has introduced aliens too, which Mojo is.

Or they could even combine the Shadow King and Mojo.
posted by 80 Cats in a Dog Suit at 11:40 AM on March 6

Point in favor of Shadow King:

Beagle is called King. He seems to be limited to the Astral plane and attacking people with psionic energy (both Oliver and David). He has history with Legion in the comics.

In the books, he had a body, which was killed by Xavier. He hung out on the Astral Plane, and shows up by taking over people with psychic powers that are not well controlled. (David and Karma come to mind)

Mojo doesn't have any psychic powers, so other people would see him. Plus, I just cant accept Mojo without Spiral. And he's waay too chatty to go 4 episodes without a word.
posted by politikitty at 11:51 AM on March 6 [4 favorites]

Very good points, politikitty. I'm swayed to Shadow King.
posted by 80 Cats in a Dog Suit at 1:08 PM on March 6

Current theory: Oliver is based partially on Proteus. that's why his body has to be frozen, rather than just in a coma. His body is in the final stages of decay. It's possible if he comes in contact with someone, his astral form will automatically hop bodies. This is why Cary was so concerned with Melanie getting close to his mask.

This is important because it's how we'll trap the shadow king.

I'm still confused about the pyrokinetic that saved Legion, since it's one of his original powers. It's possible it was the guy with Melanie on the beach, and they had to wait until he torched the room to enter. That probably means he's going to die and be absorbed by David any episode now.

(and nice nod to Excalibur with the lighthouse)
posted by politikitty at 1:40 PM on March 6 [2 favorites]

I immediately thought of Excalibur too! I miss the Alan Davis era of Excalibur. That period was my definitive Kitty Pryde and Nightcrawler, and I adored the Kitty and Rachel queer coded gals who are pals relationship.
posted by 80 Cats in a Dog Suit at 2:10 PM on March 6 [2 favorites]

which comics would y'all recommend for the best Shadow King story? (that is, if i can find it in graphic novel form)
posted by kokaku at 2:59 AM on March 7

Let's see.

X-Treme X-Men Annual 2001 - the "birth" of the character so to speak. X-Men #117 is his first encounter with Professor X, David's father. Then in New Mutants #34 for the battle with the New Mutants , and Uncanny X-Men #253, which he comes back as Reisz, and is the story line with Legion. Though any issues involved in the "Psi War" involves this storyline.

Hope that helps. Someone else may have good issues to add. Oh wait! The end of Psi Wars Uncanny X-Men #280 is like where Shadow King breaks Xavier's legs again? I think. Give me a minute to doubl-yes. Okay. That one too.
posted by 80 Cats in a Dog Suit at 7:17 AM on March 7

I'm assuming there is going to be a pivot-reveal at some point into the whole "Legion" idea, right? Otherwise why would you preserve the name?

My going theory for the first episode or two was that Syd wasn't real, but was another personality/power manifestation. It explained, among other things, how the first switch when she touches him isn't physical but the switch back is. A phenomenon that is still weird to me, but I'm willing to accept.

The last two episodes killed that theory, and anyway my theory didn't explain how them touching would work, exactly. But it seemed like she was frequently hanging back on the periphery whenever David was engaging directly with others in the group.

That left me with Lenny and Yellow Eyes being other personalities, but now they seem rather like an external entity, like the Shadow King. So if the show creators are indeed going down the "super MPD" road with this, they're doing a good job keeping those cards to their chest.

I feel like that pivot has to come, though, right? Especially after they took care in the last one to underscore that, even in scenes where David isn't present, we can't trust that it's not in David's head or of David's construction to some degree.
posted by middleclasstool at 7:36 AM on March 7

Well we saw in the first episode the two people in the room that weren't there for anyone but him. I'm thinking maybe some of the patients might have been in his head as well. After that it's hard to tell who might be in the background because they exist and who may just be a hallucination until they pull one of those Sherlock look back and show the subtle clues that prove the outcome.
posted by 80 Cats in a Dog Suit at 8:16 AM on March 7

So in the book, his split personality first manifested by absorbing a few minds when they died during a terrorist attack. Maybe it's important that the two people in the visitation room were an old woman and man. Perhaps his grandparents? And then Lenny.

The only thing is that I'm not sure where that leaves his mom and Redhook, since I suspect she was beheaded at some point and Redhook probably had casualties. But I suppose he doesn't have to absorb all the minds.

I'm still untangling his dad. Was that really the Shadow King trying to groom him, and that's why we couldn't see his face?
posted by politikitty at 11:00 AM on March 7

Did anyone else think back to the Magik series with the Division 3 scene?

Clearly the writers room is binging Jay and Miles Xplain the Xmen as much as I am.
posted by politikitty at 10:50 AM on March 9 [1 favorite]

When the stars talk to him, now the parasite reveal. You're right, it's Shadow King. This will be awesome.
posted by 80 Cats in a Dog Suit at 12:18 PM on March 9

just realized everyone in the other thread is wondering about Melanie's powers. And I was like "she doesn't have any powers! She's Moira! this is Muir island!" And then I realized that Oliver could be Xavier, and we could have a wonderful rich backstory of other xmen teams. Division 3 is basically Black Air/W.H.O. But that means there could also be Freedom Force, X-Factor and the Australian Outback and New Mutants headed by Magneto.
posted by politikitty at 11:02 AM on March 10

The alternate promo for episode 7 explicitly named the Shadow King, so I'm sure that will be something they can easily explain to a non-comics audience in two episodes.
posted by bibliowench at 7:07 AM on March 17

They already sort of did in episode 5 when Cary explained that this is "another mutant" who's been living like a parasite in David's brain since infancy. So far this show hasn't been overly interested in tying to continuity, so between that and Lenny's monologue to David this week, you don't have to do much more to explain who TSK is.

I really really hope that the introduction of Farouk doesn't mean we see less of Lenny. She's one of the best things about the show.
posted by middleclasstool at 10:20 AM on March 17 [1 favorite]

I agree exactly with what middleclasstool just wrote with regards to backstory and continuity.

When everybody first started speculating about the Shadow King, I wasted some time trying to remember if it was the Shadow King who was after Maddie and Scott's baby during the initial X-Factor run. Then I realized that a) I was likely swapping one bad guy for another in my memory, b) that the story line I was attempting to recall was one of those overly complicated, needlessly messy X-Men plots that end up sprawling all over every title available and wrecking havoc with ongoing stories and historic continuity, and c) that none of that will matter when it comes to this show which seems to be pretty self-contained in its own universe, with the possible exception of eventually naming Xavier as David's dad.
posted by sardonyx at 11:51 AM on March 17

Unless they really run with self-contained and spell Xavier O-l-i-v-e-r
posted by kokaku at 12:29 PM on March 17

In the books, he had a body, which was killed by Xavier.

The first time I saw the Devil with Yellow Eyes, I thought he looked like Amahl Farouk, the Shadow King's first host in the comics.
posted by homunculus at 4:50 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

The alternate promo yt for episode 7 explicitly named the Shadow King

Well, there it is.
posted by homunculus at 4:52 PM on March 18

LOVED that his dad was bald in the animated fight scene.

I am more and more convinced that Season two will be about the creation of Summerland. Particularly with the Interrogator showing up with the cloudy eye in the last scene. That guy is getting sent back in time to become the Eye, because David can do anything.

And it's going to have Coffee a Go-Go.
posted by politikitty at 10:22 AM on March 23

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