Outlander: Creme de Menthe   Books Included 
October 29, 2017 5:20 PM - Season 3, Episode 7 - Subscribe

Claire follows her conscience as a surgeon despite the risks to her and Jamie's lives; Jamie tries to evade the reach of the Crown as its representative closes in on his illegal dealings.
posted by olinerd (13 comments total)
Ugh, filler episode much?
posted by olinerd at 5:20 PM on October 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

I didn’t like a single thing about the entire episode. What is WITH Fergus’s weird accent? Why did they cast that kid as Ian? Why are Jamie and Claire mad at each other all the time? Ugh.
posted by something something at 5:41 PM on October 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

Young Ian is growing on me, but I really am not a fan of Older Fergus. Are they trying to give him a French/Scottish accent? He's almost incomprehensible. And his scene with Young Ian didn't do either of them any favors for appearing to be good actors.

Claire and Jamie being mad at each other I can kind of understand - it's not like they were never at odds previously, and being thrown back together after 20 years of change on both their parts, there's bound to be conflict when they're both going 100 mph as their new selves. So I guess I'm okay with that.

I'm also sort of okay realizing that all the long detailed gory trepanation of the bad dude was to set Claire up for the realization that in the past she won't be able to help people like she did in the modern day and that that'll be a huge mental adjustment for her, something she's given up that she hadn't realized, but god it dragged on before it became clear that's where they were going with it.

The production values for the printshop fire seemed embarrassingly low for a show that has had such rich scenery, battle scenes, etc. I felt like I was watching a History Channel reenactment. All the close-up shots of the print shop sign, of the Willie portrait, etc seemed like such tropes and so unlike the filming that this show has done for so long - it was like an entirely different production team was doing this one.

Hooray for Claire calling Yi Tien Cho by his real name; I feel like that's a nice gesture the show is making in their efforts to make that entire thing less problematic.

But seriously, what a filler episode. They couldn't have cut this one in half, gone back to Lallybroch, and ended on the big L reveal? Ugh. Was really not a fan.
posted by olinerd at 6:06 PM on October 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

This episode is bad and it should feel bad.

Also, Ian ISN'T FUCKING GINGER and I have FEELINGS about this casting decision.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 9:42 PM on October 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

So, so boring this episode! I had to run out the door with five minutes to go, and I didn't even bother watching that part because I knew where they would end the episode almost back at the beginning.

I'm not liking ANY of the characters right now, and yeah the fire was tropey af. At least Lallybroch should be entertaining.
posted by tracicle at 6:47 AM on October 30, 2017

Yeah, I don't have anything useful to add, that episode was all filler. For a season with so few episodes they've had two episodes where nothing really happens, I thought we had more plot to get through than this.
posted by banjo_and_the_pork at 10:41 AM on October 31, 2017

I am new to jumping on this train (both show and books) because I'd always heard such mixed reviews about Gabaldon's writing that I'd never been ready to commit.

I'm partway through the second book now and understand why the reviews were mixed.

However, I think the show is really, very well done. Well-cast and well-written and beautiful to look at.

I'm hoping you all can help me with some questions about characterizations I find confusing, as well as dropped plot-lines. And hoping it's not annoying that my questions go back to earlier seasons. Probably now I'm not going to be able to remember what they were! But two that come to mind are these:

1) What is the deal with Lord John Grey; why did he warm to Jamie so quickly? There was no explanation, the debt of honor having been paid, for why he would go from wanting to kill Jamie, to befriending him.

2) What happened to the plot to poison Charles? Having killed Dougal over it, it seems like at the very least Jamie and Claire would have wanted to carry out the plan. As it was, Dougal died for absolutely nothing. And the decision to attempt assassination, which carried such heft, just evaporated.

Thanks for any help!
posted by torticat at 7:54 AM on November 1, 2017

torticat, the answer to your #1 might be a bit spoilery - I can't remember exactly how things unfold in Dragonfly in Amber. Their relationship begins as a friendship between two educated men who find kinship in a place with very few other educated men to befriend, but the real crux of it is that Lord John is in love with Jamie.

#2 is a weak spot for me as well, because if they were serious about stopping Culloden obviously they would have just killed Charles. There is some half-assed stuff here and there about how they couldn't do it because it would make them bad people or something, but come on. Jamie has killed lots of people, and Claire has killed a few herself. There isn't a good reason for why they didn't go through with this.
posted by something something at 8:53 AM on November 1, 2017 [2 favorites]

Thanks, something something.

the real crux of it is that Lord John is in love with Jamie.

Yes, I thought that was clear in the show. I guess I just think they didn't do enough to show the transition--that is, why Grey would have given the friendship a chance to develop in the first place. When he is first given the command at the prison, he hates Jamie.

Jamie has killed lots of people, and Claire has killed a few herself.

Well, and on the show at least (I haven't got this far in the book), they had already made the decision to do it. It seems like the killing of Dougal would have increased the incentive... to make that death worth something, at least.

BTW I don't mind spoilery. This is books-included, after all, so I'm reading at my own risk!
posted by torticat at 9:07 AM on November 1, 2017

On another subject, I really hated what they did to Claire's 1960s look. In the books I don't think she changed that much (at least, from Roger's perspective she hadn't). That eye makeup and helmet hair made her look so cold and brittle and unfriendly. It was so effective, in fact, that I had a hard time buying the old-Claire look when she resumed it in "A. Malcolm." I had a feeling that she was playing dress-up (well, in a way she was), but that the hard, modern Claire kept peeking through.

If this were a characterization thing, I would have no problem with it. But I don't feel like Claire turned hard during her time back with Frank, did she? Guarded, maybe--but I still took book-Claire to be the same kind and loving person she always had been, during the period of revelation & investigation with Roger and Brianna.
posted by torticat at 9:21 AM on November 1, 2017 [2 favorites]

i am 2 minutes in and this is the worst thing i have ever seen, why would they choose such a stupid departure from canon.
posted by poffin boffin at 2:53 PM on November 5, 2017 [1 favorite]

Also, Ian ISN'T FUCKING GINGER and I have FEELINGS about this casting decision.

also this. i was rereading this season's book for the SECOND TIME in order to deliberately anger myself and the first description of ian is that he's almost comically tall and scrawny, with dark hair in a ridiculous bowl cut. i assume they chose to make him ginger because they assume viewers would be too stupid to distinguish between fergus and ian if they both had dark hair?
posted by poffin boffin at 2:59 PM on November 5, 2017 [2 favorites]

43 minutes in and every moment of this episode has been unbearable garbage and i am calling the police
posted by poffin boffin at 3:27 PM on November 5, 2017 [4 favorites]

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