Titans: Full Season
October 28, 2018 12:33 PM - Subscribe

The latest DC live action property brings together Robin, Starfire, Raven, and Beast Boy (Changeling) in the preferred grim-dark house style.

I don't know if anybody is watching this, or if it's even worth posting a thread, but on the off chance people want to talk about it, I figured I'd create an opportunity.
posted by sardonyx (42 comments total) 1 user marked this as a favorite
 
This seems to only be on dcuniverse.com right? Is it worth using up a free trial for it?
posted by numaner at 12:38 PM on October 28, 2018


Honestly, the grim-darkness isn't as annoying as I thought it would be. A lot of DC Universe stuff is dark and weird, even when it's presented in a fun four-color package. However, the theme song is so over the top bad that it makes me cringe every time.

I was also really excited to see that the Doom Patrol is going to be in the next episode.
posted by runcibleshaw at 12:43 PM on October 28, 2018 [1 favorite]


I'm not going to try to make this a well-written post. Instead, I'm just going to jot down some random impressions.

I don't think the casting people made any effort to hire an actor to play young Dick who looks anything like older Dick. It's a bit of a disconnect to look at the younger one and think, he's supposed to grow into the character we're watching, based strictly on his physical appearance.

This is a Dick Grayson unlike any that has been portrayed. He's more a combination of Bruce's broodiness, Jason's distrust of people, and Tim's still and quiet physicality and his more reserved personality. I don't think we've even seen this Dick crack even a tiny smile.

I came to Titans at the start of the Wolfman/Perez era, so the idea of the team being so far apart in age isn't what I'm familiar with--I think it's more of a cartoon interpretation. I say that because I wasn't expecting to like the young Raven story line. The actress who plays her, however, has really impressed me, and I'm enjoying her portrayal.

The first time we see Garfield, he's breaking into an electronics store to steal a video game. I guess that means they're steering away from his moneyed background. Maybe having two trust-fund kids is one too many for the producing team? Or maybe he's just a thrill seeker? Either way, I wasn't too impressed.

I'm sure we've all seen/heard the backlash against Koriand'r's appearance. The dress and coat they have her in is definitely an unfortunate choice. They could have gone with sexy and modern (or sexy and retro, I'm not sure what look they're actually trying for) in a much better way. Her hair seems less terrible the more we see of it, but I also think they could have made a better choice there as well. The effects when she uses her powers have more of a Phoenix/Jean Grey look than they do a Starfire one, so that seems a bit off.

I'm not sure what to say about her personality. Turning her into an amnesiatic detective isn't the route I would have taken, but I'm willing to keep an open mind.

I mentioned this was grim dark. It's not, quite that bad, but when you have three of the brightest, most bubbly personalities in the DC universe (Dick, Kory and Gar) and make two of them dour, and then add Raven, who was never the happiest of characters, it seems like you're taking this show is a very deliberate direction.

It seems that between Black Lightning and this, the Outsiders titles have become the go-to source to use to find new characters to bring to the small screen. (The Nuclear Family originated in one of the Outsiders titles).

I was surprised they bothered to introduce one of the key people in Dick's life as a detective, only to kill the character off, especially as there was barely any interaction between the two of them. That seems like a complete waste.

It was a nice treat to see such comic-accurate reproductions of the Hawk and Dove costumes, but it was also a good reminder that they are terrible, awful designs. Still, if they could get the white lenses for those two, I wish they could have used them in Robin's mask and given us at least one element of Dick's traditional costume. (Essentially he's wearing Tim's version.)

Judging by the previews, I really expected to hate this. Surprisingly, I'm kind of enjoying it--or at least I'm looking forward to new episodes. I'm not saying it's good by any means, but it's interesting enough to capture my attention, at least in the short term.
posted by sardonyx at 12:58 PM on October 28, 2018 [3 favorites]


Oh, and I was really surprised when the social worker had to tell young Dick that has parents had been murdered. Young Dick seemed to have no idea, so I guess they're not going with the traditional Tony Zucco origin, where Dick knew the circus was under threat, but wasn't able to do or say anything before the show.
posted by sardonyx at 1:34 PM on October 28, 2018 [1 favorite]


A Conversation Between the Two Dumbest Development Execs Wvert, Who Naturally Both Work for DC

"Man, people sure hate our shitty grimdark movies."
"At least we have the Teen Titans. Children sure love the Titans."
"Let's make a grimdark Teen Titans show with a bunch of unnecessary violence and swearing."
"FUCK YEAH!"
[they chest bump and high five]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:37 PM on October 28, 2018 [3 favorites]


sardonyx, i think some of your impressions might be from the next episode... and i also just realized the post title says Full Season despite the post being labeled as episode 1. We do have a "All" option for episodes for a season for full season posts.

I've only watched the first episode, but I like that it's grim and dark, but not grimdark. It's definitely a very different take on the Titans, who I've only known from the cartoons (both the serious one and the current jokey one). It's compelling so far though, as it's different enough to make me ignore comparisons with what I know.
posted by numaner at 1:50 PM on October 28, 2018 [1 favorite]


I looked for the All option, but I couldn't find it, or figure out how to make it work. If you want to drop a note to the mods to fix it, please feel free. I thought the full season approach might be best considering this is likely to be a low traffic show.
posted by sardonyx at 1:54 PM on October 28, 2018 [1 favorite]


Also, since the show is already three episodes along, I didn't want to try to go back and make separate entries for each episode.
posted by sardonyx at 1:58 PM on October 28, 2018 [1 favorite]


I'm a huge fan of Robin and the (comics) Titans and I've enjoyed the first two episodes. Some of the violence was over the top but I'm glad they're not letting the children's cartoon limit their choices.
posted by sevenyearlurk at 2:59 PM on October 28, 2018 [1 favorite]


I looked for the All option, but I couldn't find it

It's at the bottom of the episodes counter list, I usually just drag the scroll bar for the list all the way down, or you can just type "a" for All and it should pop right up.
posted by numaner at 6:56 PM on October 28, 2018 [2 favorites]




I'm slightly disappointed that this pair of Hawk & Dove has no powers, although I've only ever seen them sporadically in more ensemble shows like animated Justice League. I think though that Rohrbach (the detective "partner") and Dove are alive, because this show doesn't pull punches when showing death and we didn't get those scenes. And it would be more women fridging that would turn people off.

I've also just realized this is a Berlanti show, since I let the credits run to the end. I reaaally hope we get mentions to the other DC shows on CW. I dunno about crossovers though since this is really different from the rest. It would be both strange, funny, and awkward to see CW stars cursing up a storm.

From the IMDB link apparently he's also producing a Booster Gold movie! I hadn't heard about that, exciting!
posted by numaner at 7:48 PM on October 28, 2018 [1 favorite]


Longstanding rumour has it that the Booster Gold project is the reason why there was a ban on using Ted Kord in the Arrowverse, even though Kord Industries was frequently mentioned. I guess the DC executives wanted the possibility of a Blue and Gold buddy movie with Booster and the Blue Beetle. I have no idea if that's what is currently on the table or if that idea got dumped to the sidelines.
posted by sardonyx at 9:26 PM on October 28, 2018 [1 favorite]


[Fixed to be "full season"]
posted by taz at 5:46 AM on October 29, 2018 [2 favorites]


Okay, Doom Patrol was one of those pockets of the DC universe that I never really explored. I mean I was aware of the team and its members but that's about it. Even given that, I have to give this show credit for really committing to some of the company's fringe characters. First Hawk and Dove, and now this. They really are going full out on getting the supporting players right.

It's just a shame that commitment isn't extending to the main cast. I mean I can understand what they're doing with Dick, and where, I think, they're going with him, but he's just so not Dick. Even the little things are off. For example, I was expecting Dick to leap off that interior balcony, not run down the stairs. Yes, I know that's a pointless effect that runs up the cost of production, but it's Dick. Mr. Acrobat and Aerialist and Flyer who can't keep his feet on the ground.

The same thing with Koriand'r. I'm not saying she's not an interesting character or one who provides some necessary perspective, but she's not Kori. Whether her true personality returns when she regains her memory, I guess is the question.

It seems Dick did pick up Bruce's habit of taking in orphans. Daddy Bats would be so proud! (Well he's probably have a stern lecture for his protege, but maybe not in this personality-swapped world.)
posted by sardonyx at 9:01 PM on November 2, 2018


I absolutely thought he was going to jump off the balcony too!
posted by runcibleshaw at 4:29 PM on November 3, 2018 [1 favorite]


yeah this is a completely different Titans crew, with the individuals also different from what you've always known. Once you accept that basis, it's easier to absorb the show.

I didn't know Brandon Frasier voiced Cliff aka Robotman, and then when he was looking at old photos I was like "hey that kinda looks like Brandon Frasier!"

I never heard of Doom Patrol, but definitely an interesting group to tell a story with. I wonder what Rita's actual powers are aside from... not being able to hold herself together (I also just looked that up and she's Elasti-girl); and I had to look up Larry, who is Negative Man, having never heard of him before. Turns out they're getting a spinoff show that will also be on DC Streaming, quite a few recognizable names in that cast!
posted by numaner at 5:40 PM on November 3, 2018 [1 favorite]


I didn't think about this last week, but this week makes it pretty obvious that asking Gar to tag along as the Titans go adventuring was a pretty stupid and irresponsible move on Dick's part. The Doom Patrol wanted Garfield to have the chance at a normal life that they themselves can't experience, so that's why they gave Gar their blessing to leave. So what does Gar get instead? Staying at cheap roadside motels with people who are the targets of assassins and kidnappers. Somehow, I don't think that's what the Doom Patrol were expecting when they let Gar go.

I don't know if the set design people don't talk to the people who pick the stock footage location shots, but there was no way that barn was on that farm. Those are traditional barn board buildings and not facilities with brick walls. That was a really jarring contrast.

In the "I know this isn't the Titans crew DC readers know and love category, but I can't help myself anyway" moment of the episode, the fact that they had circus boy Dick freak out at Garfield's tiger transformation was so out of character. I mean Kori wasn't bothered by it at all, but Dick, who grew up around lions and tigers and elephants was ready to head for the hills and never look back. That just felt so, so, so very wrong. I did however love Kori's sense of humour in that scene, even it if wasn't very true to Koriand'r's comic book personality. (See, I can appreciate the approach taken to characters in this show if it makes sense.)

I wasn't expecting Jason's introduction quite this soon, but I guess it makes sense. Dick was forced to reveal his Robin identity and now he's going to have to give it up and forge a new one for himself, just as he's forging a new team. At least I think that's the only way this makes sense. I can't see Bruce or Dick or Jason (who seems to be wearing Damian's hair) being too happy with two Robins running around.

They also jumped into the Dick and Kori relationship sooner than I was expecting, but I can't really complain about that, given that the pairing is canon. It just would have been nice to have them develop a bit more of an honest emotional relationship first before the physical stuff. But then again, we're talking Dick and Kori.

Oh, and I felt so bad for the actor playing Dick. He looked like he was trying to be so careful not to pull off Kori's wig as he had his hands on her face. I'm sure it wasn't comfortable for the actress playing Kori either.

I know this is one of those stupid things that happen off-screen, but it seems as if the entire team totally forgot about the hotel manager, or even bothered to check to see if she was okay. I don't need to see it play out--a simple comment would do--but the whole bit with the destruction of the rooms (doors off their hinges, etc.) and tied up hostages felt like it was happening in a vacuum. Okay, so the motel was empty and there were no other guests to be disturbed, but wouldn't the manager want to report the damage to the cops and the insurance company? I guess it wouldn't matter if she were dead, but we didn't get that confirmation, so we're left to play Schrodinger's cat with her: she's either unconscious in a hallway somewhere, or her body is getting colder in a stairwell, and we'll never know.

I feel like I should say that even though I like to pick nits when it comes to posting about this show, and especially focus on those ones where the characters deviate from their comic book counter parts, I actually enjoy the show. It's the DC property I tend to look forward to the most after Legends. Arrow is being dragged down with more Diaz, Supergirl is too preachy and heavy-handed for me this season. Flash is better this season but it has landed in the fine, not good or great category (or maybe it's just that the novelty of it has worn off). Black Lightning is telling a compelling story, that keeps me coming back but it's not a show I turn to for pure lighthearted enjoyment.

Titans is interesting to me, possibly because I haven't seen live action versions of this team or these story arcs before and I'm curious about how they're going to be adapted and portrayed. Of course for an Ontario resident, it's also fun (almost instinctual by this point) to play spot the local landmarks, which I can't do with the BC-shot Arrowverse shows.
posted by sardonyx at 9:57 PM on November 9, 2018 [1 favorite]


I'm halfway through that recent episode and uh, I did not expect Dick to hook up with Kory that quickly. I guess I miss the back and forth from the cartoons, and this ready-to-get-it-on adult version is kind of jarring.

That said I think this reimagining is going well so far. I just need to get my head out of what I know about the characters.
posted by numaner at 11:45 PM on November 18, 2018 [1 favorite]


oh uh I guess i'm like 2 episodes behind. So that was neat seeing all 4 of them standing together for the first time. That creepy family is hella scary. I'm guessing that's Jason!
posted by numaner at 12:04 AM on November 19, 2018


Yeah with the last few scenes of the latest episode, I'm expecting Dick to transition to Nightwing within this first season. Although I'm wondering if he really needs to, and he just needs to leave the Robin stuff behind. The other 3 don't have an alternate identity yet, and this realistic take kind of doesn't force one on them. No one really knows who they are, and the ones after Rachel already know her real name and powers. Seems like a bunch of people know that Dick is Robin too, so having him put on a new suit and name doesn't help them going after Dick Greyson. I think he can forgo the mask and paint over the suit, lose the cape, and then he can just fight as Dick. Without the mask it'd also help him control himself, as that's that thing he's most worried about when he becomes Robin.

This Jason Todd definitely feels more like what I know of Damien Wayne. I never read the comics but the Jason Todd from the animated show was not such an asshole.

I'm struggling to figure what the hell that thing that they cuffed Adamson to, it looks almost like pipes that lead down a hole in a bathroom? That's not a tub is it? Or emergency slides down to another area?
posted by numaner at 1:02 AM on November 19, 2018 [1 favorite]


I wasn't sure anybody was still following this so I didn't bother to post after the last episode. I'm happy that other people are watching this and sharing their thoughts about the show.

First, I'm glad I'm not the only one who was having difficulty understanding that bathroom architecture. That was bizarre.

Like you, numaner, I'm both enjoying the show and its progression and struggling with setting aside my perceptions of who the characters are and just accepting them as they're presented. Actually, I'm mainly having a problem with the various Bats. I'm coping fine with the rest.

As much as Bruce can be and has been portrayed in the comics to be a jerk (especially recently thanks to some terrible writing and editorial decisions), it's hard to imagine he'd go as far as locking Dick out of one of his safehouses. He may have issues with his more murdery children (and I guess after this episode we have to put Dick in that category as he let Zucco be killed), but denying any of them a place of refuge just seems so wrong. Paranoid Bruce chipping his kids is much much in keeping with his character--assuming that's post Jason's death Bruce.

As for Jason, I don't know what to say about him. In the bar, when he was being all slick and affable, that was very much like comic book Dick, who could charm his way into anywhere.

As much as he had issues with cops and authority figures as a street kid (with a completely different backstory--I have no idea where they're going with this raised by his uncle situation), there is no way (pre-Lazarus Pit) he'd just tear through a bunch of cops attending a call. Even Damian the Demon Brat wouldn't do that, as violent as he is. Admittedly, Jason was always more violent than Dick and had more of a black and white vision of justice, but this is so extreme. Actually, letting the mob kill Zucco feels much more like a Jason move than a Dick one, given some of Jason's history and some of the events that caused tension between him and Bruce.

He's also a lot more cynical here than he was in his Robin days. That whole bit about wearing bright colours to draw fire sounds more like Red Hood Jason than Robin Jason.

I don't suspect we'll see much more of Jason, at least for the time being, but it will be interesting to watch what they do with the character should he return in the future.

As for Dick, I don't understand why he just left Atlas hanging there. I kept thinking "throw a batarang or a Robin throwing star and get him down from there" which he finally did, but only after he had already been hit by the acid. Also why didn't he take him to the hospital? Yes, I understand Dick knows field medicine, but that was a pretty serious acid burn, I doubt he had stuff to treat that in his travel kit.

Okay, so now that Dick has decided he's ditching the Robin identity, I have to wonder where he's going to get the supplies for his next suit. He didn't seem to know about the upgrades to Jason's costume, so I can't imagine he'll have an easy time getting his hands on the materials needed to make his own. Unless he calls in another favour from Alfred, which I wouldn't mind at all. I like the idea of Alfred having Dick's back. Actually, numaner, I kind of like your idea of Dick just being himself for a while as he figures out his next persona. I'm not sure how long DC will let that play out, as it seems like the kind of company to want named heroes leading its TV properties and at this point, it doesn't really have any in this show.

The other big question is once Dick decides on his Nightwing persona will he acknowledge Clark's influence and the Kryptonian origin of his new identity or will the show just brush that aside?

I was starting to have the same concerns about Dick's seemingly open-secret secret identity. Part of them were alleviated with the death of the Nuclear Family, but that still leaves Zucco Jr. and Dr. Adamson to potentially cause trouble down the line. I guess the writers want to leave a few loose ends hanging for the future.
posted by sardonyx at 8:06 AM on November 19, 2018 [1 favorite]


Ah I actually didn't know that about Nightwing's origins. They didn't mention it in the cartoon!
posted by numaner at 12:50 PM on November 19, 2018


It's one of those areas where comic-reading viewers find themselves asking "just how shared is this shared universe?"

Nightwing and Flamebird are complicated characters (or concepts) mainly due to how they keep getting revamped in whatever big event happens to be rewriting DC history at the moment.

When I first encountered them, they were Kandorian scientists Van-Zee (a cousin of Superman's) and Ak-Var who dressed up and fought crime. They were a back-up feature one of the Superman titles.

Eventually, when I started learning more about DC history, including Golden Age story lines, I became aware that they had an earlier incarnation: Superman and Jimmy Olsen who were palling around in Kandor and decided to fight crime (and who served as an inspiration to Van and Ak.)

Since Clark had a young sidekick and because he was powerless as all Kryptonians in Kandor were, and because he had kind of inadvertently ended up on the wrong side of the law during his trip to the bottled city, he took inspiration from Batman and Robin for his and Jimmy's crime-fighting alter egos, and the bird species of Nightwing and Flamebird were the closest Kryptonian matches for Gotham's dynamic duo.

At one point (because this was Golden Age DC), Dick and Bruce visited Kandor and encountered Supes and Jimmy in their Kandorian superhero costumes. Dick remembered that meeting and used the Nightwing name when he needed a new identity.

Post-Crisis, when DC wiped away what it considered to be all that Golden Age silliness (or at least tried to), the story goes Supes had been telling Dick stories about Krypton, including tales about some of its supposed heroes and Dick took the name from there. This version of Nightwing was something of an outcast who turned himself into a hero of the people, hence the appeal to Dick, who had just suffered an acrimonious split from Bruce and was feeling left out in the cold. (Sort of what this Titans version of Dick is experiencing.)

After that, I kind of lost track of how the story evolved. I think at this point in DC continuity Nightwing and Flamebird are supposed to be two mythological creatures from Krypton representing night and day or death and rebirth, or something like that--one of those yin-yang duos that are common across many different mythologies.

What I didn't realize until very recently was that Bette (Batgirl I) Kane, Kate (Batwoman) Kane's niece used the Flamebird name for a bit when she was hanging around with the Titans. I didn't know she was ever part of the team. Maybe if this show continues for any length of time we'll see her pop up, if she doesn't wind up in the new Batwoman show.
posted by sardonyx at 2:34 PM on November 19, 2018 [1 favorite]


I'm struggling to figure what the hell that thing that they cuffed Adamson to, it looks almost like pipes that lead down a hole in a bathroom? That's not a tub is it?

Based on the wallpaper in the room, my guess is that it was a cold plunge tub. Bruce seemed to have quite a swanky spa setup in his safe house.
posted by sevenyearlurk at 9:01 AM on November 20, 2018 [2 favorites]


whoa! I didn't realize rich people actually have those things in their homes. I've used one as part of a hydro-rejuvenation therapy thing at a vacation resort, but it was a big rectangular one with steps to plunge yourself in. I guess a ladder works too!
posted by numaner at 2:54 PM on November 20, 2018 [1 favorite]


Who knew you could learn about interior design and plumbing by watching superheroes on TV? Thanks sevenyearlurk for that explanation.
posted by sardonyx at 8:33 PM on November 20, 2018 [1 favorite]


It seems your guess was dead on, sevenyearlurk.

I don't know what to think about this episode. Poor Gar definitely made a mistake by hitching his wagon to this group. As sheltered as he was with the Doom Patrol, at least he wasn't forced to bite and maul somebody who tortured him.

It's good to see that Rachel is getting a hand on her powers. I'll admit I was rooting for her when she revoked her healing energy from Adamson.

Kori (I guess I should use the show's spelling of Kory, at least until they make some headway with her finding more about her past) was fine, but they really, really need to get her a change of wardrobe ASAP. That shiny polyester two-piece jumpsuit needs to go into the same bonfire as the Robin suit.

Speaking of the Robin suit, I just don't know where they're going with Dick. As much as he hates what he has become, I still can't see him just burning his family colours. That seems like a step too far.

Also, if he so despises who he is now, can he really live with himself after having given Kori the order to torch the asylum? Sure, it may help address the too-many-people-know-his-secret-identity problem, but from a logical, crime-solving basis, it also eliminates any clues in the data and records about who these people were, who Rachel's father is, and what this prophecy is all about. Not to mention all of the killing. I don't know how sustainable a character Dick is going to be if they continue down this road of turning him into the Punisher (or Jason Todd in his duffel-bag wielding Red Hood phase). Also, can I just say, I was so very happy that at least they gave him a wrench to use in the tunnel instead of a crowbar?
posted by sardonyx at 9:32 PM on November 24, 2018


I agree that I'm a little surprised they didn't try to save anyone else in the asylum, or try to gather more evidence.

But also, as soon as they started cutting into Kory I was on team "BURN. IT. ALL. DOWN." This show is dark af, but they don't stray away from just raw catharsis. I went from wincing a few episodes ago when Dick was just fighting too damn harsh as Robin to cheering on Dick with every wack of the wrench. There's something to be said about unleashing your rage on such evil assholes.
posted by numaner at 9:07 PM on December 2, 2018 [1 favorite]


Also the only thing that redeemed Rachel in this episode was that she ended up rescuing everybody after being a petulant teenager that got everyone captured.
posted by numaner at 9:08 PM on December 2, 2018


So this comment is about the Donna Troy episode.

First: Yeah! It's nice to see Donna, especially since she is a very in-character version of Donna (the fire, the photography, the strong emotional maturity she displays). I'm glad that they keep going back to the people that were in Dick's life and who were important to him in some way, because boy does he need people who love him and can be his emotional anchors, and perhaps pull his head out of his ass.

Dick certainly lived up to his namesake this episode. He's a detective. He was trained as one by Bruce, he works as a police detective. So why doesn't he volunteer to stick around and help Kory figure out who she is? It's the least he can do. Not only would it help Kory, it would probably shed some additional light on the whole prophecy situation about Rachel. But no, he doesn't do that. He shirks his responsibility to his new friends and teammates and takes off to find himself (which, admittedly, he really needs to do, but the timing is just so, so bad).

I know this Dick isn't comics Dick but it seems like the producers have decided to take every last little thing that defines Dick as a character and strip him of it and turn him into something unrecognizable. He's not even an mini, broody Bruce, because (assuming Bruce is anything like his comic book counterpart) he can at least fake being friendly and having social skills. This Dick has zero self-confidence and can't even make small talk with strangers at Donna's showing. That was really disappointing. Even if he's in a particular dark and and sulky place due to his issues with Bruce and violence and his identity and what have you, I was at least hoping we'd get a glimpse of the charm and ease that is a natural part of Dick the born showman and performer.

I think I've complained about his physicality (or lack thereof before) but even the way they had him awkwardly clamber over the top of the truck just seemed out of character. Sure they threw the fans a tiny flip at the end, but that was too small a morsel to count as a fanservice bribe.

I'm not sure what I want to happen to Dick's character at this point. Part of me would love to see the "real" Dick put in an appearance, but then that would be such a strange left-turn for this character that it would be hard to buy. As a viewer of this show, I want to give this version of the character the benefit of the doubt, and watch him as he progresses in his journey, but it's just so hard to throw out decades of my experience with him as a reader and nearly 80 years of publishing history.

Maybe it would have been less of a strain on viewers if the producers had decided to introduce an entirely new character to take Dick's place in this show, or to pick another existing DC character and swap him in to replace Dick in this history. (If they could move Cyborg out of the Titans and into a founder's position in the Justice League, then they could do the same here.) I'm not sure who I'd want that character to be. The closest I can come up with is Red Hood Jason Todd, but even that's not a perfect fit for the type of character they want Dick to be. Roy Harper (Speedy/Arsenal/etc.) would have been great and he has baked-in Titans history and connections, but with Arrow still on, I can't imagine DC would want two versions of Roy on TV at the same time.

It seems this producing team wants to tie everybody together in the most complicated way possible. Kory's alien language is an off-shoot of Sumerian known to the Amazons, so either ancient aliens came down to earth or there was a common ancestor of all of the races in the galaxy (which given Donna Troy's more than convoluted history is a definite possibility, although one I don't really like). Kory's people are somehow tied to Rachel's demonic dad. Ugh. It's just a bit too much interconnectedness. I was sort of hoping they were going to move away from such tight ties, but it seems like they're determined to wind them into more complicated knots rather than letting them unravel.

Also, if they could find the time to go shopping to pick up clothes for Rachel's mother, why couldn't they have picked up something more casual for Kory at the same time? That outfit really needs to be retired, or at the very least, given a very long time-out.

I also wasn't too impressed with the explanation Rachel was given about her dad and his cult of personality. I think she is owed (despite her bad behaviour in the last episode) something a lot closer to the truth about her origins, her powers, and the danger surrounding them.

Once again, I'm back to poor-Gar. Now, not only has he bitten and killed in his tiger form, he's having problems controlling it. As far as I know, his animal alters having minds of their own is something new for the character (although I'm not as familiar with the full run of Titans' history as I am with, say Bat Family history). I guess this is just another way to ensure that every character in this show struggles with angst and identity and control issues.
posted by sardonyx at 9:18 AM on December 3, 2018 [1 favorite]


I don't know if anybody is still watching, but I'll try one more comment, this time for the Hawk and Dove episode.

It was a nice treat to see Hank and Dawn's backstory complete with Hank's brother Don, but the ending made absolutely no sense. First, even though it was Dawn who pushed Hank to deal with his coach, and who initiated the physical intimacy, she told Hank it was a mistake to be together. Why? Was she suddenly feeling regret at their actions? We don't know because they left the viewers hanging.

As for Rachel telling them they needed to find Jason, again, we're not given an indication why or what good Rachel thinks Jason can do. We also don't know why Rachel was reaching out psychically. She knows Hank and Dawn. If she really needed something from Hank, why didn't she just pick up the phone?
posted by sardonyx at 5:41 PM on December 8, 2018 [1 favorite]


i'm still keeping up, just haven't been able to sit down and watch since i use less than legitimate means and it takes a bit of effort...
posted by numaner at 6:48 PM on December 8, 2018 [1 favorite]


I'm still watching! I don't have much to say at the moment except I've really been noticing the Toronto filming locations in the last couple of episodes.
posted by sevenyearlurk at 7:08 PM on December 8, 2018 [1 favorite]


Outside of the big obvious Ontario and Toronto tells (like young Dick driving the stolen Porsche toward the Princess Gates at the CNE or the 400 Hotel) I'm finding it's the small things that really jump out at me as being Ontarian or Canadian: the OLG signs hanging in store windows, or the President's Choice (PC) maple syrup on the safe house kitchen table.
posted by sardonyx at 11:39 AM on December 10, 2018


I just finished catching up!

I thought Dick would be more charming at the party too, but I guess this Dick has been kind of a shut in since his parent's death and Batman (not Bruce) wouldn't exactly teach him how to schmooze.

They're leaving a lot on the table for us to tie together and figure out, but they'll do that with the rest of the episodes so I'm not too worried about how all of this will fit. The show so far has shown some maturity for plotting so I don't expect anything too unreasonable. As far as Kory's outfit, I think she might prefer it, even if we don't. In fact in those flashbacks she was having she's wearing something similar too, so maybe it's just a Tamaranean thing.

The last episode really cranked up the drama, but I appreciated it. The ending was basically just the usual morning-after regret that we've seen before. It just takes some convincing from Hank for them to get together eventually.

I'm also wondering how Jason Todd is supposed to help, or maybe that's the only other hero Rachel can think of to call, aside from Hank. But again, I'll just wait till the next episode.
posted by numaner at 6:08 PM on December 13, 2018


I just finished episode 10.

So they left us hanging with the Jason Todd, Dawn and Hank subplot in the Koriand'r focused episode. Okay, I trust they'll get to that at some point in the future.

We're also still hanging about how Tamaranean is linked with ancient Sumerian. Sadly, I don't expect this to ever really be explained.

I know that it was Rachel's doing that was the trigger to bring Kori's memories back, but even still, it somehow seemed too quick and easy, but I'm kind of glad that they've finally addressed this, as we can start moving forward with her part of the plot.

Gar fanning over Donna's use of the lasso was kind of cute.

I don't know how seriously I'll be able to take Trigon when he's wearing the face of one of the goofball detectives from Castle.

I don't have too much to say about this one, because it's mainly just a lot of table setting.
posted by sardonyx at 6:54 PM on December 16, 2018


I'm not sure what I want to say about episode 11. Part of me thinks it's almost entirely worth skipping because most of what happened isn't in continuity for this show. It's only the visions that Trigon put in Dick's head to warp his soul, and while those may be perfectly valid fears, that's all they are. They aren't reality.

Then again there was so much in there are so many warped Easter eggs, that of course, long-time readers are going to recognize them (despite their distortions), so any discussion about the episode is almost remiss if they're neglected.

Right from that shot of the Richmond St. exit, Toronto was in great evidence again, despite the "Welcome to Gotham" sign. I don't think they could have signaled any harder where this show is shot even if they went to shoot directly in front of the Toronto sign at City Hall.

It was obvious Harvey Dent/Two-Face and the Ventriloquist were among the dead at Arkham, but I'm not sure who else made the list. I can't tell if the first, tattooed body on the gurney was supposed to be Victor Zsasz or somebody else we're supposed to recognize.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised to see this show pairing Dick with Dawn in his fantasy (before everything turns dark), given that there is the natural, built-in conflict with Hank, but the reader in me balks at this duo when both Donna and Kori are in the picture.

I kept waiting and waiting for Jason to finally utter the line, that's pretty much associated with Tim Drake these days: "Batman needs (a) Robin", since it was essentially Tim's lecture to Dick they cribbed for this scene (and where that line first popped up in this particular context).

As for more of the mix and match of characters' personalities and traits, it seems in Dick's dark fantasy, Jason has taken Barbara's place in the chair. I guess that's a change that's worth supporting, seeing as they avoided just introducing a character in order to disable her. Then again, they went along with the torturing and photographing Jim from the Killing Joke, which isn't something I ever want to revisit again. God, I wish the influence of that particular piece of trash would vanish. I hate that graphic novel with a passion.

I'm a bit surprised that the after-credit scene was from Cadmus Labs and pretty much explicitly gave us both Kon-El/Connor Kent/Superboy and Krypto. Mind you, the character seemed pretty big and beefy for Kon, who is usually depicted as as a slighter teenager, not a big beefy adult muscle-man type. He's also unexpected as the character wasn't part of Dick's Titans line-up but was instead on the team during Tim's leadership.

I really have no idea what DC is doing when it comes to its characters. Batman is off-limits in the Arrowverse, but he's fine here. Slade Wilson was essentially pulled from the Arrowverse so he could be used in the movies. Now, with the new Doom Patrol trailer, it seems that Vic Stone/Cyborg, who I thought was off limits to TV properties so he could be slotted into the Justice League membership roster, is being thrown in with the Doom Patrol when, by rights, he should be on this show. I really don't think DC has a plan on what to do with its characters.
posted by sardonyx at 10:04 PM on December 22, 2018


Oh, and I still think the actress playing Rachel's mother looks more like the character Lilith than she does Angela/Arella Roth.
posted by sardonyx at 10:17 PM on December 22, 2018


Never mind, I was wrong about the tattooed body. Closer, clearer screenshots seem to indicate it was the Riddler, which makes sense in the context of the vision.
posted by sardonyx at 10:50 PM on December 22, 2018


I forgot to comment on the last episode! Thanks for the reminder in the Doom Patrol pilot thread.

I know that they wanted a long drawn out character study of how Dick could "fall to the dark side", but it felt too long. I appreciated that they understand the significance of the character and devoted a whole episode to that. The problem though is that they dropped enough hints that it was just a dream and then you kind of wanted Dick to just wake up from it. To be fair, I don't know how you could balance taking the time to turn him dark versus keeping the viewer engaged in a story they know to be a dream.

I'll be back for season 2 but man that's going to be a dark beginning.
posted by numaner at 2:33 PM on March 8


I came back to watch this after watching Doom Patrol because I figured why not and was a little curious about Gar. I have some questions about how Gar fits in with some of the Doom Patrol last episode reveals, but they also recast the Chief so I guess that's not worth thinking about.

Kory's hair grew on me, and I didn't even mind the purple minidress and purple two-piece catsuit after a while, but that horrible coat! Even the coat could not distract me from the Tremendously Conveniently Timed Amnesia. Ok, you need Kory to have amnesia to keep the story going, but I kept waiting each episode thinking "surely now there will be some explanation of the cause," and there never was. If it was a head injury from the car crash, why did she not have a head injury when she got out of the car? If it was something else, what was it and why was it so conveniently timed? Was it the cult of Trigon somehow? Do the writers even know?

I liked Gar, and I even liked his chemistry with Raven.

They did a good job of Robin being really amazingly dangerous, even in contrast to other martial-arts heroes. I'm about willing to let Dick's broodiness go as being a phase he's working through -- he knows he's going overkill on the violence but hasn't worked out the balance of how to remain effective but not bloodthirsty and until he figures it out, he's off his game. (And, well, now he's possessed, but presumably season 2 will address that.)

Holy cow this show is hard on the police. Someone already mentioned Jason going overkill on the police upthread but what really got me was Kory maiming a bunch of small town police who, quite legitimately, wanted to know why someone was messing with a taped-off scene of an active murder investigation in the middle of the night. They didn't even go in aggressively, and it's not as if Kory could not have extracted herself without engaging with them.
posted by Karmakaze at 1:59 PM on June 5


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