Good Omens: The Nice and Accurate Prophecies of Agnes Nutter, Witch
May 31, 2019 10:22 AM - Season 1 (Full Season) - Subscribe
An angel and a demon must join forces to find a way to save the world as the end of time grows near with the approaching Armageddon. Adapted from the book by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman.
Hot take after watching the first episode: I would kill for Aziraphale's bookshop. That set alone should win all the awards for set design.
posted by vverse23 at 10:45 AM on May 31, 2019 [17 favorites]
posted by vverse23 at 10:45 AM on May 31, 2019 [17 favorites]
oh lord please heal this bicycle
posted by French Fry at 11:43 AM on May 31, 2019 [31 favorites]
posted by French Fry at 11:43 AM on May 31, 2019 [31 favorites]
I have read the book many, many times and I felt like this was a pretty straight adaptation. That's both good and bad, although mostly good. Mostly really good.
I think the cast is extraordinary. David Tennant and Michael Sheen are having way too much fun and are delightful. Adria Arjona as Anathema has a wonderful, quiet presence. The casting of the smaller roles are amazing and Jon Hamm steals every scene he's in.
The production is pretty and I like the attention to details. The effects are a bit spotty in places, though.
I do think the kids don't really get enough screen time and that we don't get to know them (Them) very well hurts this quite a bit. I didn't learn enough about Adam in this to really care and I'm curious how all of that would come across to people who don't know the book.
I think it does a great job of condescending the story down enough while still capturing all the great moments. But ... I feel like it's almost too faithful. I don't know if the book is really that dated, but I think it could've used some updating nonetheless. There is a bit of that here and there, but it also ends up not really feeling that contemporary to me.
(I always just wanted it to be a straight-up period piece and take place in the very late '80s/very early '90s -- the contemporary time period of the book. I think that would've made some of it work better and made it funnier.)
All in all, though, I really enjoyed it and it was a joy seeing it on the screen. I never had a moment of "well, what about this part ...?" or "why did they change that?" I feel like it's definitely for the fans, and in that way, it feels very sweet. I don't know how well it will play for people who aren't fans, though.
posted by darksong at 11:56 AM on May 31, 2019 [15 favorites]
I think the cast is extraordinary. David Tennant and Michael Sheen are having way too much fun and are delightful. Adria Arjona as Anathema has a wonderful, quiet presence. The casting of the smaller roles are amazing and Jon Hamm steals every scene he's in.
The production is pretty and I like the attention to details. The effects are a bit spotty in places, though.
I do think the kids don't really get enough screen time and that we don't get to know them (Them) very well hurts this quite a bit. I didn't learn enough about Adam in this to really care and I'm curious how all of that would come across to people who don't know the book.
I think it does a great job of condescending the story down enough while still capturing all the great moments. But ... I feel like it's almost too faithful. I don't know if the book is really that dated, but I think it could've used some updating nonetheless. There is a bit of that here and there, but it also ends up not really feeling that contemporary to me.
(I always just wanted it to be a straight-up period piece and take place in the very late '80s/very early '90s -- the contemporary time period of the book. I think that would've made some of it work better and made it funnier.)
All in all, though, I really enjoyed it and it was a joy seeing it on the screen. I never had a moment of "well, what about this part ...?" or "why did they change that?" I feel like it's definitely for the fans, and in that way, it feels very sweet. I don't know how well it will play for people who aren't fans, though.
posted by darksong at 11:56 AM on May 31, 2019 [15 favorites]
Taken as a whole, this series made me more joyful than I've been with a show or movie since the last Pixar movie that made me cry. But that's largely because I am a fangirl from small times. When I was a tween, I got ahold of this book, and it became a major influence on me, along with the rest of Pratchett. (The insufferability of a Southern teenage girl who liked to say "Bugger all this for a lark" and would subsequently have to explain herself can only be imagined.) So I was primed to love it. But I think it could be confusing and not best-paced for someone who hadn't read it, and possibly disappointing at the end if you didn't remember the weight of what Pratchett and Gaiman (mostly Pratchett, I suspect) were saying about the great power of Adam's essential Humanity. There wasn't enough screen time for Adam to establish who he was.
Some observations:
I never in my life want to say that Frances McDormand talks too much, but I think the narration was a little overdone in some scenes. I would have trusted viewers to pick up what was happening.
David Tennant is Crowley. Could it have been someone else? No. There is none more Crowley. The scene of him threatening his houseplants was by itself worth the wait for an adaptation. The screenplay also makes him more philosophical and conscience-stricken, which gives him a chance to angst around in leather pants, and who is going to say no to that.
Michael Sheen is absolutely lovely as Aziraphale, sweet and awkward and profoundly embarrassing. Screenplay!Aziraphale is different than book!Aziraphale, who was sharper and less naive. Instead, Sheen carries the narrative arc of Aziraphale (and thus the viewer) figuring out that Heaven is not Good after all, which takes him centuries.
It is, of course, not a canon ship, but these guys bring more romance to this show than an entire evening's worth of the Hallmark Channel. "You go too fast for me, Crowley." My heart.
Miranda Richardson is a treasure in this.
Nerd time is over, gotta go --
posted by Countess Elena at 1:06 PM on May 31, 2019 [54 favorites]
Some observations:
I never in my life want to say that Frances McDormand talks too much, but I think the narration was a little overdone in some scenes. I would have trusted viewers to pick up what was happening.
David Tennant is Crowley. Could it have been someone else? No. There is none more Crowley. The scene of him threatening his houseplants was by itself worth the wait for an adaptation. The screenplay also makes him more philosophical and conscience-stricken, which gives him a chance to angst around in leather pants, and who is going to say no to that.
Michael Sheen is absolutely lovely as Aziraphale, sweet and awkward and profoundly embarrassing. Screenplay!Aziraphale is different than book!Aziraphale, who was sharper and less naive. Instead, Sheen carries the narrative arc of Aziraphale (and thus the viewer) figuring out that Heaven is not Good after all, which takes him centuries.
It is, of course, not a canon ship, but these guys bring more romance to this show than an entire evening's worth of the Hallmark Channel. "You go too fast for me, Crowley." My heart.
Miranda Richardson is a treasure in this.
Nerd time is over, gotta go --
posted by Countess Elena at 1:06 PM on May 31, 2019 [54 favorites]
I just had to stop to type at someone in Discord:
posted by jurymast at 2:04 PM on May 31, 2019 [30 favorites]
thatSo that's about where I'm at.
was
the GAYEST STAIN REMOVAL
i have ever seen
IN MY LIFE
posted by jurymast at 2:04 PM on May 31, 2019 [30 favorites]
I finally read the book a few weeks ago and it was a hoot. I've just started this and they absolutely nailed the opening. A good omen, that is.
posted by homunculus at 2:07 PM on May 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by homunculus at 2:07 PM on May 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
My tentative conclusion is that this is not the book, but it is an overly excitable love letter to the book, and I'm totally on board with that.
posted by jurymast at 2:10 PM on May 31, 2019 [12 favorites]
posted by jurymast at 2:10 PM on May 31, 2019 [12 favorites]
Currently watching. Up to episode... four-ish.
Anyone who gives employment to Doon Mackichan is OK in my book.
Probably the first Pratchett adaptation that's at least as much fun for someone who's not read the book as someone who has.
I kind of want a series set in the 1980s with Tennant (in character as here) as a grown-up Molesworth and Sheen (ditto) as Fotherington-Thomas, which is the vibe I get here. Probably solving crimes.
Oh! Bill Paterson! How lovely!
Anyway, I like it.
posted by Grangousier at 3:57 PM on May 31, 2019
Anyone who gives employment to Doon Mackichan is OK in my book.
Probably the first Pratchett adaptation that's at least as much fun for someone who's not read the book as someone who has.
I kind of want a series set in the 1980s with Tennant (in character as here) as a grown-up Molesworth and Sheen (ditto) as Fotherington-Thomas, which is the vibe I get here. Probably solving crimes.
Oh! Bill Paterson! How lovely!
Anyway, I like it.
posted by Grangousier at 3:57 PM on May 31, 2019
Oh, and I grew up, more or less, in Tadfield.
By which I mean I more or less grew up and I did it in a place that's pretty much exactly Tadfield.
posted by Grangousier at 4:00 PM on May 31, 2019 [5 favorites]
By which I mean I more or less grew up and I did it in a place that's pretty much exactly Tadfield.
posted by Grangousier at 4:00 PM on May 31, 2019 [5 favorites]
THIS WAS AWESOME I AM WATCHING IT FOR THE SECOND TIME RIGHT NOW
Also all of the interviews with Sheen and Tennant together are delightful and you should seek them out on YouTube. Also they were on Graham Norton last night.
Also also I LOVE the theme music and animation.
AAAA IT'S ALL SO GOOD!
posted by tzikeh at 4:45 PM on May 31, 2019 [2 favorites]
Also all of the interviews with Sheen and Tennant together are delightful and you should seek them out on YouTube. Also they were on Graham Norton last night.
Also also I LOVE the theme music and animation.
AAAA IT'S ALL SO GOOD!
posted by tzikeh at 4:45 PM on May 31, 2019 [2 favorites]
Countess Elena: It is, of course, not a canon ship, but these guys bring more romance to this show than an entire evening's worth of the Hallmark Channel. "You go too fast for me, Crowley." My heart.
May I direct you to this interview of Sheen and Tennant. The Good Part starts right around 3:00 exactly in.
posted by tzikeh at 4:49 PM on May 31, 2019 [22 favorites]
May I direct you to this interview of Sheen and Tennant. The Good Part starts right around 3:00 exactly in.
posted by tzikeh at 4:49 PM on May 31, 2019 [22 favorites]
Hastur is giving me a delightful John Constantine vibe. This is better than I dared hope.
posted by FallibleHuman at 5:21 PM on May 31, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by FallibleHuman at 5:21 PM on May 31, 2019 [2 favorites]
Alright, I've finished, and I really can't stop smiling. I'll have to watch the whole thing again for more coherent thoughts. But I'm so happy. I'm so happy this vaporware, decades-in-development-hell adaptation got made. I'm so happy it's good. I'm so happy that everyone who's loved the book as long as I have or longer, and had it mean as much to them or more, gets to have this ridiculous, hyperactive, helter-skelter series that drips love for the source material right out of the screen. And I'm so happy that it validates fifteen-plus years of me cradling the book close and softly stroking its cover as I whisper, "THEY'RE IN LOVE AND NOTHING ANYBODY SAYS CAN CONVINCE ME OTHERWISE."
I can't stop smiling, you guys.
posted by jurymast at 7:13 PM on May 31, 2019 [25 favorites]
I can't stop smiling, you guys.
posted by jurymast at 7:13 PM on May 31, 2019 [25 favorites]
I enjoyed it, but I do agree with the complaints here about spotty special effects and too much reliance on narration.
But Sheen and Tennant are such a joy, it just overrides all of that. It's just wonderful.
posted by miss-lapin at 7:17 PM on May 31, 2019 [4 favorites]
But Sheen and Tennant are such a joy, it just overrides all of that. It's just wonderful.
posted by miss-lapin at 7:17 PM on May 31, 2019 [4 favorites]
My one sadness is that Alan Rickman isn't alive to be in this because I kept feeling he like he should be.
posted by miss-lapin at 7:21 PM on May 31, 2019 [61 favorites]
posted by miss-lapin at 7:21 PM on May 31, 2019 [61 favorites]
Only three episodes in and I really like it. Sheen and Tennant have, dare I say, Fry and Laurie chemistry.
posted by East14thTaco at 8:16 PM on May 31, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by East14thTaco at 8:16 PM on May 31, 2019 [6 favorites]
I've watched the first couple of episodes and I'm enjoying it. David Tennant is great...as long as he's wearing sunglasses. I really dislike having the bright yellow irises as the default; it's very distracting.
posted by grandiloquiet at 9:03 PM on May 31, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by grandiloquiet at 9:03 PM on May 31, 2019 [3 favorites]
David Tennant is Crowley. Could it have been someone else? No. There is none more Crowley.
Agreed. Which is also making me giggle because in real life he is such a dang goody-two-shoes sometimes that I first thought he'd be Aziraphale. (Exhibit A - this moment from a recent Graham Norton with him and Michael Sheen, and he confesses to literally not knowing that the eggplant emoji didn't just mean eggplant.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:28 PM on May 31, 2019 [12 favorites]
Agreed. Which is also making me giggle because in real life he is such a dang goody-two-shoes sometimes that I first thought he'd be Aziraphale. (Exhibit A - this moment from a recent Graham Norton with him and Michael Sheen, and he confesses to literally not knowing that the eggplant emoji didn't just mean eggplant.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:28 PM on May 31, 2019 [12 favorites]
You might want to have the tissues close by for this:
Prachett's Hat and Scarf had their own seat for the Good Omens premiere.
posted by miss-lapin at 9:46 PM on May 31, 2019 [28 favorites]
Prachett's Hat and Scarf had their own seat for the Good Omens premiere.
posted by miss-lapin at 9:46 PM on May 31, 2019 [28 favorites]
I'm someone who started checking five minutes after midnight to see when the episodes would drop (couldn't quite figure it out, found them available in the morning).
Four episodes in and while I wish the narration was a trifle held back and maybe not as word by word faithful to the book (cellphones and ansaphones both still around?), I cannot imagine anyone else as Crowley. Tennant owns the part.
Although now that miss-lapin has pointed it out, I'm sad about Rickman.
The section about Aziraphale and Crowley's evolving relationship has been one of my favourite bits so far. Excited for the last two episodes. Minor quibbles aside, this is all very happy-making. Whee.
posted by Nieshka at 11:45 PM on May 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
Four episodes in and while I wish the narration was a trifle held back and maybe not as word by word faithful to the book (cellphones and ansaphones both still around?), I cannot imagine anyone else as Crowley. Tennant owns the part.
Although now that miss-lapin has pointed it out, I'm sad about Rickman.
The section about Aziraphale and Crowley's evolving relationship has been one of my favourite bits so far. Excited for the last two episodes. Minor quibbles aside, this is all very happy-making. Whee.
posted by Nieshka at 11:45 PM on May 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
The gavotte sequence is everything I wanted it to be and more.
Pterry was a master of the footnote and I missed seeing them try to explain the economics of the Witchfinder Army in old money. But Hamm as Gabriel more than makes up for it... one smirk and he pulls me back in.
Dog was perfect, Ollie was the essence of doggishness.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 12:25 AM on June 1, 2019 [14 favorites]
Pterry was a master of the footnote and I missed seeing them try to explain the economics of the Witchfinder Army in old money. But Hamm as Gabriel more than makes up for it... one smirk and he pulls me back in.
Dog was perfect, Ollie was the essence of doggishness.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 12:25 AM on June 1, 2019 [14 favorites]
I really liked all of the Queen.
posted by zengargoyle at 8:37 AM on June 1, 2019 [12 favorites]
posted by zengargoyle at 8:37 AM on June 1, 2019 [12 favorites]
I really enjoyed this. It was remarkably faithful, and I even enjoyed the bits whee it wasn't. I had some quibbles at the end where suddenly Adam's friends care deeply about world peace and the environment etc, but I enjoyed the extra scene they added in. I liked the footnotes. Overall it was just lots of fun.
I am curious if small town kids these days would really only know of three flavours of ice cream though.
posted by jeather at 9:07 AM on June 1, 2019 [4 favorites]
I am curious if small town kids these days would really only know of three flavours of ice cream though.
posted by jeather at 9:07 AM on June 1, 2019 [4 favorites]
Loved it, aside from Michael McKean's highly variable quality Scottish accent. Very odd decision to cast him and then have Bill Patterson (the ne plus ultra of Scottish character actors who can do high dudgeon and scenery chewing to a T) for a ten second walk-on.
posted by Happy Dave at 12:26 PM on June 1, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by Happy Dave at 12:26 PM on June 1, 2019 [2 favorites]
ACTUALLY... /wensleydale
Mr. Shadwell's accent was unplaceable. It careered around Britain like a milk race. Here a mad Welsh drill sergeant, there a High Kirk elder who'd just seen someone doing something on a Sunday, somewhere between them a dour Daleland shepherd, or bitter Somerset miser. It didn't matter where the accent went; it didn't get any nicer.posted by jurymast at 12:34 PM on June 1, 2019 [30 favorites]
Yeah... but Michael McKean's accent is just a bad Scottish one. It's fine-ish about 70% of the time, then it sounds like an American trying very hard to do a Scottish accent. Anyway, it's a very small blemish in an excellent adaptation, I just thought it was odd that Bill Patterson was also in it, as he'd have been a far better choice. Him or any one of a hundred British character actors.
posted by Happy Dave at 12:41 PM on June 1, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by Happy Dave at 12:41 PM on June 1, 2019 [2 favorites]
The mister left this morning for a weeklong trip and because I am an awesome wife, I promised I wouldn’t watch this until he got home.
Our, I think, seventh copy of Good Omens arrived last week. It might be a higher number. The mister and I each had our own copy when we got married, but Good Omens is a book we always need to buy over and over again because we lend it out and it never comes home. Which is fine, because it makes us happy to spread the joy of Pterry.
posted by Ruki at 1:58 PM on June 1, 2019 [6 favorites]
Our, I think, seventh copy of Good Omens arrived last week. It might be a higher number. The mister and I each had our own copy when we got married, but Good Omens is a book we always need to buy over and over again because we lend it out and it never comes home. Which is fine, because it makes us happy to spread the joy of Pterry.
posted by Ruki at 1:58 PM on June 1, 2019 [6 favorites]
Ah!! I have so many thoughts about this show. So glad this thread is here.
I was super excited for this to drop, being a Good Omens fangirl from way, way back when, and in many ways it was really lovely, but as people have said, it works better as a love letter to the book than an adaptation... And I'm not sure how well it works for people who aren't familiar with the source material. And when I say 'familiar with the source material', I mean in it in the sense that I am familiar with the source material, and many others in this thread: we've reread it multiple times etc. I think if you don't know the novel, it might strike you as a very odd show. I found myself wondering whether it was perhaps too faithful to the book. So I liked the last episode when it diverged from the book a little.
I wasn't crazy about the narration (I get why it was necessary, but I didn't like Frances Macdormand's narration and I found it annoyingly arch) and I actually found the Queen stuff a little overdone. I also didn't love the child actors, except for the child who plays Adam. The show does this very deliberate call-out to the Just William books in the last episode, but even so, I just couldn't get my head around presumably modern day children acting so period. The fact that the kids are unrealistic is pointed out in the book as well - I think it's Anathema who says something like 'You should see the kids around here, they're all 'Brilliant!' and Boys' Own Paper" (I'm quoting from memory but that feels fairly accurate) - but it doesn't feel weird when you read it, whereas when you see it on screen it's odd and incongruous. It didn't work for me at all.
I found show-Anathema very irritating too, which was disappointing, because Jack Whitehall was surprisingly good as Newt Pulsifer, and Anathema was always a book character I enjoyed.
I really loved the connection between Crowley and Aziraphale - the show really ramps up the relationship-aspect, and I think this is good because it gives the show an emotional core that a lot of other things I've seen recently really lack. In a way, they almost manage to do the rest of the show a disservice, because whenever anyone else was on screen, I found myself thinking, 'Yeah yeah but where are Crowley and Aziraphale'? Their amazing chemistry just blew the whole thing out of the water.
It's good to get my petty gripes out of my system because for the most part it was a very happy-making few hours of TV. It reminded me, with good reason given that it shares a lot of its DNA with Doctor Who, but of Doctor Who back in the Tennant Years, but before it got all soppy about Ten and Rose.
posted by unicorn chaser at 3:35 PM on June 1, 2019 [11 favorites]
I was super excited for this to drop, being a Good Omens fangirl from way, way back when, and in many ways it was really lovely, but as people have said, it works better as a love letter to the book than an adaptation... And I'm not sure how well it works for people who aren't familiar with the source material. And when I say 'familiar with the source material', I mean in it in the sense that I am familiar with the source material, and many others in this thread: we've reread it multiple times etc. I think if you don't know the novel, it might strike you as a very odd show. I found myself wondering whether it was perhaps too faithful to the book. So I liked the last episode when it diverged from the book a little.
I wasn't crazy about the narration (I get why it was necessary, but I didn't like Frances Macdormand's narration and I found it annoyingly arch) and I actually found the Queen stuff a little overdone. I also didn't love the child actors, except for the child who plays Adam. The show does this very deliberate call-out to the Just William books in the last episode, but even so, I just couldn't get my head around presumably modern day children acting so period. The fact that the kids are unrealistic is pointed out in the book as well - I think it's Anathema who says something like 'You should see the kids around here, they're all 'Brilliant!' and Boys' Own Paper" (I'm quoting from memory but that feels fairly accurate) - but it doesn't feel weird when you read it, whereas when you see it on screen it's odd and incongruous. It didn't work for me at all.
I found show-Anathema very irritating too, which was disappointing, because Jack Whitehall was surprisingly good as Newt Pulsifer, and Anathema was always a book character I enjoyed.
I really loved the connection between Crowley and Aziraphale - the show really ramps up the relationship-aspect, and I think this is good because it gives the show an emotional core that a lot of other things I've seen recently really lack. In a way, they almost manage to do the rest of the show a disservice, because whenever anyone else was on screen, I found myself thinking, 'Yeah yeah but where are Crowley and Aziraphale'? Their amazing chemistry just blew the whole thing out of the water.
It's good to get my petty gripes out of my system because for the most part it was a very happy-making few hours of TV. It reminded me, with good reason given that it shares a lot of its DNA with Doctor Who, but of Doctor Who back in the Tennant Years, but before it got all soppy about Ten and Rose.
posted by unicorn chaser at 3:35 PM on June 1, 2019 [11 favorites]
Between the very crucial, “I believe in peace, bitch” and the closing song, Tori Amos was quite well represented in this show.
I loved it. To be honest, I haven’t read the book in, well, almost 30 years, and the sum total of what I remembered was 1) all cassettes in Crowley ‘s car turn into the best of Queen, 2) there’s a book of prophecy, 3) a baby-swapped Antichrist kid, 4) a demon and an angel save the world they love, and each other. It was not my favorite of Gaiman’s. I always thought there was too much of Pratchett in there, and I didn’t care for his work the way I loved Gaiman’s.
But I LOVED this show. It was perfect to me. I maybe have grown into Pratchett in the last 30 years and should give him another try. Or maybe the show was just really good.
Also, I’m now a Aziraphale and Crowley shipper. I went looking for shipper names (Crowlaphale just doesn’t work) and found Air Conditioning! (A/C). But I don’t think I could use it in real life. “Who do you read?” “Oh, mainly Drarry, Stucky, and Air Conditioning.”
posted by greermahoney at 3:37 PM on June 1, 2019 [10 favorites]
I loved it. To be honest, I haven’t read the book in, well, almost 30 years, and the sum total of what I remembered was 1) all cassettes in Crowley ‘s car turn into the best of Queen, 2) there’s a book of prophecy, 3) a baby-swapped Antichrist kid, 4) a demon and an angel save the world they love, and each other. It was not my favorite of Gaiman’s. I always thought there was too much of Pratchett in there, and I didn’t care for his work the way I loved Gaiman’s.
But I LOVED this show. It was perfect to me. I maybe have grown into Pratchett in the last 30 years and should give him another try. Or maybe the show was just really good.
Also, I’m now a Aziraphale and Crowley shipper. I went looking for shipper names (Crowlaphale just doesn’t work) and found Air Conditioning! (A/C). But I don’t think I could use it in real life. “Who do you read?” “Oh, mainly Drarry, Stucky, and Air Conditioning.”
posted by greermahoney at 3:37 PM on June 1, 2019 [10 favorites]
I really enjoyed it and am looking forward to rereading the book with the cast of the show in my mind's eye. They were all so damn perfect.
There were a couple of omissions from the book which I'd hoped were going to be in it, like the the prophecy card from Agnes about Anathema and Newton having sex. On the show it said:
"You go, boy. May fortune be with you. Anathema, my descendant, I trust he will be fine of feature and mighty of..."
That wasn't in the book. But the book did described Newt's embarrassed reaction to the card thusly:
"It wasn't simply the fact that Agnes had known, and had expressed herself in the most transparent of codes. It was that, down the ages, various Devices had scrawled encouraging little comments in the margin."
I was hoping we'd get to see the encouraging comments.
I was also kind of bummed that we didn't get the mortal Hell's Angels mainly because of Death's comment about Elvis.
posted by homunculus at 3:52 PM on June 1, 2019 [7 favorites]
There were a couple of omissions from the book which I'd hoped were going to be in it, like the the prophecy card from Agnes about Anathema and Newton having sex. On the show it said:
"You go, boy. May fortune be with you. Anathema, my descendant, I trust he will be fine of feature and mighty of..."
That wasn't in the book. But the book did described Newt's embarrassed reaction to the card thusly:
"It wasn't simply the fact that Agnes had known, and had expressed herself in the most transparent of codes. It was that, down the ages, various Devices had scrawled encouraging little comments in the margin."
I was hoping we'd get to see the encouraging comments.
I was also kind of bummed that we didn't get the mortal Hell's Angels mainly because of Death's comment about Elvis.
posted by homunculus at 3:52 PM on June 1, 2019 [7 favorites]
“Who do you read?” “Oh, mainly Drarry, Stucky, and Air Conditioning.”
try "ineffable husbands"
posted by Countess Elena at 4:31 PM on June 1, 2019 [13 favorites]
try "ineffable husbands"
posted by Countess Elena at 4:31 PM on June 1, 2019 [13 favorites]
Hi, it's me again. Did anyone else lay awake last night thinking about Aziraphale's, "I forgive you,"? Cool, okay.
I've been in full-on shipper meltdown mode for a solid 24 hours. I know GNeil has been tolerant-to-faintly-condescending about people reading queer undertones into Aziraphale and Crowley's relationship before, so him - as writer and showrunner - choosing to add the things he added, and to actively frame and shoot and score their scenes the way he did... It feels like a gift. It's as close to an in-text acknowledgement as can be that a romantic read on their relationship is as valid as any other. It feels like him saying, "What's in the book is canon, and what's canon is in the book. But maybe if we'd written the book in the late 2010s instead of the late 1980s, we might have made some different choices." I - oh, where did this tinfoil hat come from? Yes. Sorry. I'll go. I'm so sorry. I don't know what to do with my hands. I'm so happy.
posted by jurymast at 5:16 PM on June 1, 2019 [15 favorites]
I've been in full-on shipper meltdown mode for a solid 24 hours. I know GNeil has been tolerant-to-faintly-condescending about people reading queer undertones into Aziraphale and Crowley's relationship before, so him - as writer and showrunner - choosing to add the things he added, and to actively frame and shoot and score their scenes the way he did... It feels like a gift. It's as close to an in-text acknowledgement as can be that a romantic read on their relationship is as valid as any other. It feels like him saying, "What's in the book is canon, and what's canon is in the book. But maybe if we'd written the book in the late 2010s instead of the late 1980s, we might have made some different choices." I - oh, where did this tinfoil hat come from? Yes. Sorry. I'll go. I'm so sorry. I don't know what to do with my hands. I'm so happy.
posted by jurymast at 5:16 PM on June 1, 2019 [15 favorites]
I had some quibbles at the end where suddenly Adam's friends care deeply about world peace and the environment etc
I actually remember that from the book.
I wasn't planning on binging the whole thing in one go today, but the quick one-hour repair visit my super was supposed to make at 10 am turned into a several-hour on-and-off thing and I was waiting around the house for much of the day, and this softened that blow. And somehow being kept indoors by a sweet but occasionally bumbling super* feels like a very....Crowley thing to have had inflicted on me.
* He managed to lock himself out of another apartment he was working on today and all his tools were locked inside and he had to get someone to rescue him at one point.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:00 PM on June 1, 2019 [6 favorites]
I actually remember that from the book.
I wasn't planning on binging the whole thing in one go today, but the quick one-hour repair visit my super was supposed to make at 10 am turned into a several-hour on-and-off thing and I was waiting around the house for much of the day, and this softened that blow. And somehow being kept indoors by a sweet but occasionally bumbling super* feels like a very....Crowley thing to have had inflicted on me.
* He managed to lock himself out of another apartment he was working on today and all his tools were locked inside and he had to get someone to rescue him at one point.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:00 PM on June 1, 2019 [6 favorites]
My memory from the book was that Adam created a sword and a crown and a set of scales out of sticks and string and the like and they fought using their home-made versions, or faced off somehow, but the kids didn't SAY anything, just held their versions and then war and famine and pollution all got sucked up into theirs. But I don't have the book handy to check.
posted by jeather at 7:29 PM on June 1, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by jeather at 7:29 PM on June 1, 2019 [2 favorites]
Oh, I see what you mean. I remember them discussing the environment and saving the whales and such at other points in the book, so them saying it then didn't seem strange to me.
Unrelatedly - do we have any kind of official statement on whether the license plate "NIAT RUC" on Crowley's Bentley really is meant to be "CURTAIN" backwards?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:06 PM on June 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
Unrelatedly - do we have any kind of official statement on whether the license plate "NIAT RUC" on Crowley's Bentley really is meant to be "CURTAIN" backwards?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:06 PM on June 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
in real life he is such a dang goody-two-shoes sometimes that I first thought he'd be Aziraphale
They should do the whole thing again, and the only change would be that Sheen and Tennant switch roles, like you sometimes hear about actors doing (frex Miller & Cumberbatch in Frankenstein). I think Michael Sheen's Crowley would be VERY interesting.
posted by tzikeh at 9:35 PM on June 1, 2019 [16 favorites]
They should do the whole thing again, and the only change would be that Sheen and Tennant switch roles, like you sometimes hear about actors doing (frex Miller & Cumberbatch in Frankenstein). I think Michael Sheen's Crowley would be VERY interesting.
posted by tzikeh at 9:35 PM on June 1, 2019 [16 favorites]
I'm rewatching now, and noticed a detail I'd missed the first time around. When we first meet the Them, not only is Pepper sword-fighting Brian, but Brian is wearing a paper crown, and Wensley is experimenting with a set of DIY scales.
So they did have them set up. A pity the show chose not to use them in the Horsemen scene.
posted by jurymast at 9:38 PM on June 1, 2019 [12 favorites]
So they did have them set up. A pity the show chose not to use them in the Horsemen scene.
posted by jurymast at 9:38 PM on June 1, 2019 [12 favorites]
Gosh. Having watched the whole thing, I can say (I'm slightly surprised) that I really liked it. The casting was good, but a lot of projects have great casts and still unravel along the way. I was genuinely charmed by 80% of it (could probably have done with less Shadwell). The kids were good. Anathema was very good. I was glad Jon Hamm turned up (his career path is so random these days that I can only assume he puts every project he likes in a bag and chooses his next role at random). I can't believe how well Crowley and Aziraphale turned out -- the angel's soft eccentricity manifests early, but by the time Crowley's Bentley explodes we have such a strong sense of how much he loves his life on Earth.
I don't really ship Aziraphale/Crowley in the book, but you'd be hard-pressed to argue their relationship here. I'm glad they didn't pull back (and not just for the sake of Tumblr harmony). "No homo"-ing their relationship would've sucked a lot of life out of the show. And spoiled the perfect ending!
posted by grandiloquiet at 9:45 PM on June 1, 2019 [6 favorites]
I don't really ship Aziraphale/Crowley in the book, but you'd be hard-pressed to argue their relationship here. I'm glad they didn't pull back (and not just for the sake of Tumblr harmony). "No homo"-ing their relationship would've sucked a lot of life out of the show. And spoiled the perfect ending!
posted by grandiloquiet at 9:45 PM on June 1, 2019 [6 favorites]
I haven't watched Doctor Who, but the telephone box in the opening sequence is meant to be a little nod to it, yeah?
The mortal Hell's Angels would've been fun, especially if they had included the discussion about their name changes.
I really enjoyed the last non canon addition, too. Also, 'I'm angel fucking Gabriel!' haha! Hamm nails his part.
posted by Nieshka at 9:48 PM on June 1, 2019 [3 favorites]
The mortal Hell's Angels would've been fun, especially if they had included the discussion about their name changes.
I really enjoyed the last non canon addition, too. Also, 'I'm angel fucking Gabriel!' haha! Hamm nails his part.
posted by Nieshka at 9:48 PM on June 1, 2019 [3 favorites]
Never read the book (but will now) and binged this yesterday and loved it totally. It all made sense, hung together well and looked wonderful.
Anyone else notice Adam's dad's car's numberplate at the end - SID RAT?
posted by IncognitoErgoSum at 12:00 AM on June 2, 2019 [9 favorites]
Anyone else notice Adam's dad's car's numberplate at the end - SID RAT?
posted by IncognitoErgoSum at 12:00 AM on June 2, 2019 [9 favorites]
I'm not much for fanfic, but I am all about some ineffable husbands stories!
posted by miss-lapin at 3:02 AM on June 2, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by miss-lapin at 3:02 AM on June 2, 2019 [3 favorites]
I enjoyed, but didn't love, the book (my reaction was "I would have liked this better about thirty years ago"), so I had no particular investment in anything while watching the adaptation. Whenever it was the Aziraphale/Crowley show, I thought the series was fantastic--Sheen and Tennant have such great presence and chemistry. But that warped the premise, which is that, in the end, the humans have to save the world; none of those characters came across well enough for the counter-Horseman cavalry to make much sense.
The new ending makes sense in terms of the overarching free will theme: A and C liberate themselves from their own sides and therefore opt for a world in which they will have to consciously make choices, like the humans. And they choose emotional connections, which is how the humans defeat the calculating political backchannels linking Heaven and Hell. It also makes a point about Christ's message according to the gospel of Aziraphale--"be kind to each other"--as neither Hell nor Heaven proves capable of kindness, thanks to their absolutism. Aziraphale has to learn how to balance his kindness with a recognition of his own free will; Crowley, who's much better at the free will bit, still has to recognize that it's not self-betrayal to be kind.
Anathema cycling down the lane was clearly Miss Gulch from The Wizard of Oz, yes?
Also, the executioner during the French Revolution seemed to be doing a shoutout to the Disneyland Haunted Mansion (999 executions = the number of Mansion residents).
posted by thomas j wise at 3:52 AM on June 2, 2019 [10 favorites]
The new ending makes sense in terms of the overarching free will theme: A and C liberate themselves from their own sides and therefore opt for a world in which they will have to consciously make choices, like the humans. And they choose emotional connections, which is how the humans defeat the calculating political backchannels linking Heaven and Hell. It also makes a point about Christ's message according to the gospel of Aziraphale--"be kind to each other"--as neither Hell nor Heaven proves capable of kindness, thanks to their absolutism. Aziraphale has to learn how to balance his kindness with a recognition of his own free will; Crowley, who's much better at the free will bit, still has to recognize that it's not self-betrayal to be kind.
Anathema cycling down the lane was clearly Miss Gulch from The Wizard of Oz, yes?
Also, the executioner during the French Revolution seemed to be doing a shoutout to the Disneyland Haunted Mansion (999 executions = the number of Mansion residents).
posted by thomas j wise at 3:52 AM on June 2, 2019 [10 favorites]
Anyone else notice Adam's dad's car's numberplate at the end - SID RAT?
SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
....I had another thought about the Them saying things to War/Famine/Pollution. Neil Gaiman is best buds with Tori Amos, and "I believe in peace, bitch" was right there begging to be a shout-out. So once Pepper had that, they had to do something for the other kids.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:06 AM on June 2, 2019 [7 favorites]
SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
....I had another thought about the Them saying things to War/Famine/Pollution. Neil Gaiman is best buds with Tori Amos, and "I believe in peace, bitch" was right there begging to be a shout-out. So once Pepper had that, they had to do something for the other kids.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:06 AM on June 2, 2019 [7 favorites]
They should do the whole thing again, and the only change would be that Sheen and Tennant switch roles, like you sometimes hear about actors doing (frex Miller & Cumberbatch in Frankenstein). I think Michael Sheen's Crowley would be VERY interesting.
I swear I heard that he was originally being considered for Crowley with someone else as Aziraphale, but after some very early discussions both Gaiman and Sheen started to think that "no, Aziraphale would be better for you. Now we just need to find Crowley." And then someone thought of David Tennant and it was such a blatant "oh, yeah, Tennant as Crowley, OBVIOUSLY" moment that that was that.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:09 AM on June 2, 2019 [1 favorite]
I swear I heard that he was originally being considered for Crowley with someone else as Aziraphale, but after some very early discussions both Gaiman and Sheen started to think that "no, Aziraphale would be better for you. Now we just need to find Crowley." And then someone thought of David Tennant and it was such a blatant "oh, yeah, Tennant as Crowley, OBVIOUSLY" moment that that was that.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:09 AM on June 2, 2019 [1 favorite]
This is driving me batty. At least 5 different people on Twitter have brought up this opening panning shot to ep2, wherein the camera bumps into a window. One is vague about it, but this one says it’s going into “Pulsiver’s bedroom window.” - and one person mentions a clunk sound and everyone finds it hilarious. Neil has twice confirmed this scene by retweeting/commenting on it.
When I watch, the beginning of Ep 2 goes from the wide panning shot to smoothly going through Aziraphale’s bookstore window. No clunk. Not funny at all. WHAT AM I MISSING???
posted by greermahoney at 9:11 AM on June 2, 2019
When I watch, the beginning of Ep 2 goes from the wide panning shot to smoothly going through Aziraphale’s bookstore window. No clunk. Not funny at all. WHAT AM I MISSING???
posted by greermahoney at 9:11 AM on June 2, 2019
It's not at the exact beginning - it's around 15:30, when we first see Pulsiver as a kid.
posted by odd ghost at 9:26 AM on June 2, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by odd ghost at 9:26 AM on June 2, 2019 [1 favorite]
Thank you, odd ghost!
One thing that can remove all the funny from a scene is hunting for it for 2 days. Wish I had noticed it the first time.
posted by greermahoney at 9:39 AM on June 2, 2019
One thing that can remove all the funny from a scene is hunting for it for 2 days. Wish I had noticed it the first time.
posted by greermahoney at 9:39 AM on June 2, 2019
i love the book, but i really wished i could share the same love of the adaptation as the other comments. the acting was great across the board, the chemistry between A&C was more than i could hope for, yet... i guess for me, one of the interesting things about the book was how they played with the medium of the book and the language of text (the prachettian use of footnotes being an example), and yet they had this opportunity to adapt it to screen, and it was basically a nicely rendered radio play. such a waste of all that visual medium (i mean, was it too much to hope, in the spirit of the book's playful use of text, to see a playful use of visuals, like maybe through some choice editing?), leading to a criminal under-presentation of all the hard work of the set design and dressing for example. and the narration! what could've been a nice twee feature becomes something so awkward and embarassingly on-the-nose, which I never would've expected. to have all that acting done beautifully and still the narration jumps in to let us know exactly what happened? yikes. if it wasn't so married to the structure of the book, maybe it would've done something useful to set up the humanity of Adam and Them etc etc etc
sorry to rain on the parade, but I truly deeply wanted to like this.
posted by cendawanita at 9:43 AM on June 2, 2019 [5 favorites]
sorry to rain on the parade, but I truly deeply wanted to like this.
posted by cendawanita at 9:43 AM on June 2, 2019 [5 favorites]
I loved realizing that Crowley’s exaggerated side-to-side swagger was him being snake-like.
posted by greermahoney at 10:05 AM on June 2, 2019 [19 favorites]
posted by greermahoney at 10:05 AM on June 2, 2019 [19 favorites]
I agree that there was way too much narration, but that just seems to be the way people choose to adapt Terry Pratchett and Douglas Adams, so I wasn't surprised. :(
posted by grandiloquiet at 11:13 AM on June 2, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by grandiloquiet at 11:13 AM on June 2, 2019 [1 favorite]
That was QUITE a lot of fun and honestly that’s the best possible thing an adaptation of this book could be. The episodes were available at 10pm on Thursday for me so I excitedly dived in - but I’ve been battling a cold and the end results is that I watched the first three episodes twice before finishing the series. My kid has been excited about it since a kid at school mentioned it months ago and he noticed I had the book on my bookshelf, and he ended up watching it with me on my second trip around and loved it, even though I had to explain every time I burst into laughter.
What a beautiful love letter and a fine cast.
posted by annathea at 3:20 PM on June 2, 2019 [3 favorites]
What a beautiful love letter and a fine cast.
posted by annathea at 3:20 PM on June 2, 2019 [3 favorites]
queer undertones into Aziraphale and Crowley's relationship before,
I mean, from just watching the series, the only reason I think they have the least the amount of queer undertones they do is that they may not have the fiddly's to bit and doing so might ruffle their clothes. OH GOD! At the very ending when Crowley invites Aziraphale to his flat after the book stop burned down. "We're on our own side."
I'm straight and no, when the ending was them having champagne at the Ritz.... I know that both sides of the family would disprove for complete different reasons than what is modern ( besides both sides tried to KILL them) and:
I'm not much for fanfic, but I am all about some ineffable husbands stories!
A Shopping Day with Aziraphale and Crowley where they went shopping and bought various things and then showed their various powers discreetly while doing so.
Which would end with early supper, with philosophical discussions and the exchange of gifts.
Speaking of which, is there anything online describing the last meal in the show at the Ritz? Champagne, and a variety of desserts it looks like?
posted by zabuni at 5:45 PM on June 2, 2019 [4 favorites]
I mean, from just watching the series, the only reason I think they have the least the amount of queer undertones they do is that they may not have the fiddly's to bit and doing so might ruffle their clothes. OH GOD! At the very ending when Crowley invites Aziraphale to his flat after the book stop burned down. "We're on our own side."
I'm straight and no, when the ending was them having champagne at the Ritz.... I know that both sides of the family would disprove for complete different reasons than what is modern ( besides both sides tried to KILL them) and:
I'm not much for fanfic, but I am all about some ineffable husbands stories!
A Shopping Day with Aziraphale and Crowley where they went shopping and bought various things and then showed their various powers discreetly while doing so.
Which would end with early supper, with philosophical discussions and the exchange of gifts.
Speaking of which, is there anything online describing the last meal in the show at the Ritz? Champagne, and a variety of desserts it looks like?
posted by zabuni at 5:45 PM on June 2, 2019 [4 favorites]
I read the book too many years ago to remember the differences, but I thoroughly enjoyed this with the exception of the children. They were a small enough part that watching this was still such a pleasure. I sort of remember being bored by the kids in the book too. The anti-christ was the most boring part of the apocalypse for me.
When I read the book, I remember the gathering of the four horsemen being genuinely scary and cool. I get that we couldn't spend much time with them here, but I might have enjoyed their gathering in more gradual way. The character design of Death was a bit hokey.
I thought Crowley and Aziraphale were far and away the best parts; heaven and hell in general looked pretty good. John Hamm having lavender eyes at the end? His delivery of "Shut your mouth and die" was very funny.
posted by gladly at 6:32 PM on June 2, 2019 [3 favorites]
When I read the book, I remember the gathering of the four horsemen being genuinely scary and cool. I get that we couldn't spend much time with them here, but I might have enjoyed their gathering in more gradual way. The character design of Death was a bit hokey.
I thought Crowley and Aziraphale were far and away the best parts; heaven and hell in general looked pretty good. John Hamm having lavender eyes at the end? His delivery of "Shut your mouth and die" was very funny.
posted by gladly at 6:32 PM on June 2, 2019 [3 favorites]
did anyone else notice that Newt appeared to have extra nipples?
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 7:21 PM on June 2, 2019
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 7:21 PM on June 2, 2019
Pendragon: what is the Easter Egg I'm meant to see there?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:56 PM on June 2, 2019
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:56 PM on June 2, 2019
Presumably the poster on the wall behind Tennant.
posted by Nerd of the North at 8:04 PM on June 2, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by Nerd of the North at 8:04 PM on June 2, 2019 [4 favorites]
Well, I just stopped watching during episode four, when angels from heaven decided to beat up Az, and I’m just done with that whole John hamm, extra angels smarmy horrible heaven nonsense. None of that is in the book. There’s so much shit in this production that isn’t in the book and adds nothing, and removes time that they could have spent developing characters in the book, like the Them, or Greasy Johnson’s gang.
Az as a twitchy, whiny little pitiful creature, Anathema was not at all as she was written, and the whole inclusion of this John Hamm and company part, I’m not sure I’ll finish it. I’m surprising annoyed. I feel like Neil decided he had to erase Terry’s story and paint it with his own grim dark world view. And I say that as someone who has known and interviewed both of them. I do not think this is how Sir Terry would have wanted it. Also, the product placement for Neil’s books was tacky.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 8:34 PM on June 2, 2019 [2 favorites]
Az as a twitchy, whiny little pitiful creature, Anathema was not at all as she was written, and the whole inclusion of this John Hamm and company part, I’m not sure I’ll finish it. I’m surprising annoyed. I feel like Neil decided he had to erase Terry’s story and paint it with his own grim dark world view. And I say that as someone who has known and interviewed both of them. I do not think this is how Sir Terry would have wanted it. Also, the product placement for Neil’s books was tacky.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 8:34 PM on June 2, 2019 [2 favorites]
I agree with the broad consensus that it was a great adaptation for fans of the book with a few flaws. Curious how it's viewed by those who don't know of the book.
Additional easter egg - the military gate guard reading American Gods.
Also, in the newspaper, there were a couple of minor references that I have forgotten in the meantime.
posted by Marticus at 8:47 PM on June 2, 2019 [2 favorites]
Additional easter egg - the military gate guard reading American Gods.
Also, in the newspaper, there were a couple of minor references that I have forgotten in the meantime.
posted by Marticus at 8:47 PM on June 2, 2019 [2 favorites]
Presumably the poster on the wall behind Tennant.
Yup.
posted by Pendragon at 1:59 AM on June 3, 2019
Yup.
posted by Pendragon at 1:59 AM on June 3, 2019
I can't tell what that poster was, it looked like a nebula thing.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:12 AM on June 3, 2019
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:12 AM on June 3, 2019
It's a book entry for the planet Gallifrey. The scene is when Crowley is looking for another place than Earth to live. Gallifrey is the home planet of the Time Lords.
posted by miss-lapin at 3:12 AM on June 3, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by miss-lapin at 3:12 AM on June 3, 2019 [1 favorite]
Without wanting to speak for anyone else in the Good Omens fandom, or who holds the book near and dear to their heart, I've been trying to articulate just why this adaptation has elicited such a viscerally joyful response from me.
(These particular thoughts brought to you by me forgetting to eat and then getting extremely emotional over takeout pizza at 1am last night.)
Good Omens has been important to me for a lot of reasons. It's a dense, clever, funny book that is About™ a lot of things. But some of those things are, at least in my interpretation: choosing love and friendship and human connection over dogma. Choosing compassion over authoritarianism and personal gain. The morality of disobeying unjust rules, and subverting unjust systems. The importance of finding someone who really sees you for who and what you are (Newt and Anathema, Shadwell and Tracy, Crowley and Aziraphale, Adam and Them), and who loves you anyway. How our differences are precious, in all our infinite variety and weirdness, but so are our commonalities. How people are really just basically people. How all humanity's really got in the end is each other, so we should probably try not to cock it all up. How maybe it'll turn out alright in the end, and maybe it won't - but either way, it's better to go out trying than doing nothing at all. And, inasmuch as there might be any choice in the matter, it's better to go out holding hands than alone.
This adaptation could have been a lot of things. It could have been rubbish. It could have changed a lot of things to be more adaptation-friendly. It's definitely not perfect. But in 2019, you know what they chose to say, what scenes they chose to add and what scenes they chose to rescue from the erstwhile movie screenplay? They chose, collectively, at varying levels throughout the writing and casting and acting and filming and scoring and editing process, to say: shiny, smiling corporations are not your friend; and also, be gay and punch Nazis.
It's felt callous to speculate, so I've kept this part to myself until now. But looking at some of the things that got added in (or back in) for this version - Crowley saving Aziraphale through the ages, Crowley losing it in the bookshop over his lost friend, Crowley giving up and getting wasted in a pub, "They killed my best friend," until Aziraphale shows back up and motivates him to give the whole thing one last try, the general foregrounding of their relationship. I don't know how coincidental these things are, in light of the fact that GNeil created this series because PTerry asked him to - and that he started writing it directly after PTerry's death.
posted by jurymast at 4:04 AM on June 3, 2019 [42 favorites]
(These particular thoughts brought to you by me forgetting to eat and then getting extremely emotional over takeout pizza at 1am last night.)
Good Omens has been important to me for a lot of reasons. It's a dense, clever, funny book that is About™ a lot of things. But some of those things are, at least in my interpretation: choosing love and friendship and human connection over dogma. Choosing compassion over authoritarianism and personal gain. The morality of disobeying unjust rules, and subverting unjust systems. The importance of finding someone who really sees you for who and what you are (Newt and Anathema, Shadwell and Tracy, Crowley and Aziraphale, Adam and Them), and who loves you anyway. How our differences are precious, in all our infinite variety and weirdness, but so are our commonalities. How people are really just basically people. How all humanity's really got in the end is each other, so we should probably try not to cock it all up. How maybe it'll turn out alright in the end, and maybe it won't - but either way, it's better to go out trying than doing nothing at all. And, inasmuch as there might be any choice in the matter, it's better to go out holding hands than alone.
This adaptation could have been a lot of things. It could have been rubbish. It could have changed a lot of things to be more adaptation-friendly. It's definitely not perfect. But in 2019, you know what they chose to say, what scenes they chose to add and what scenes they chose to rescue from the erstwhile movie screenplay? They chose, collectively, at varying levels throughout the writing and casting and acting and filming and scoring and editing process, to say: shiny, smiling corporations are not your friend; and also, be gay and punch Nazis.
It's felt callous to speculate, so I've kept this part to myself until now. But looking at some of the things that got added in (or back in) for this version - Crowley saving Aziraphale through the ages, Crowley losing it in the bookshop over his lost friend, Crowley giving up and getting wasted in a pub, "They killed my best friend," until Aziraphale shows back up and motivates him to give the whole thing one last try, the general foregrounding of their relationship. I don't know how coincidental these things are, in light of the fact that GNeil created this series because PTerry asked him to - and that he started writing it directly after PTerry's death.
posted by jurymast at 4:04 AM on June 3, 2019 [42 favorites]
Also, re: product placement. Right beside the newspaper ad for the Witchfinder Army, there are two classifieds: one for Uncle Terry's lost hat, and one about The Colour of Magic. There is also a stack of Pratchett novels in Aziraphale's bookshop, though I forgot to look for that one, as well as various references to Tennant's work on Who.
posted by jurymast at 4:11 AM on June 3, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by jurymast at 4:11 AM on June 3, 2019 [7 favorites]
Re: the Easter egg - I am very much acquainted with Gallifrey and understand the reference. My problem is that I don't see anything in the screenshot that looks like a picture of Gallifrey in the first place.
However this is most likely due to my middle-aged eyes so never mind.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:36 AM on June 3, 2019
However this is most likely due to my middle-aged eyes so never mind.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:36 AM on June 3, 2019
Empress-I screen shot the Easter Egg image. I cut out everything but the Gallifrey page and Tennant's head so it's much easier to see. I just don't know where I should post it so people (including you) can see it. And I didn't mean to suggest that you aren't a proper Whovian. Have a jelly baby! :)
posted by miss-lapin at 6:45 AM on June 3, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by miss-lapin at 6:45 AM on June 3, 2019 [1 favorite]
I need to make a poster size of that. I mean thanks ;)
posted by miss-lapin at 6:58 AM on June 3, 2019
posted by miss-lapin at 6:58 AM on June 3, 2019
It still looks like the Eye of Sauron instead of Gallifrey to me, so let's chalk this up to my own eyes getting old and maybe all move on.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:20 AM on June 3, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:20 AM on June 3, 2019 [4 favorites]
As someone with a third nipple, I felt seen.
I loved the book when it was published, but I wouldn't say it's special to me. I was excited for the adaptation but didn't have a strong emotional investment in how it turned out.
Given that, I binged it all at once and enjoyed it. Tennant was just wonderful. However, for me it suffered from a kind of incoherency in the sense that it seemed more a compilation of memorable scenes than a fluid narrative. I associate this with overly faithful adaptations where the pacing and dialogue that works on the page isn't quite appropriate for the screen.
I agree everything with the kids was flat.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 7:47 AM on June 3, 2019 [6 favorites]
I loved the book when it was published, but I wouldn't say it's special to me. I was excited for the adaptation but didn't have a strong emotional investment in how it turned out.
Given that, I binged it all at once and enjoyed it. Tennant was just wonderful. However, for me it suffered from a kind of incoherency in the sense that it seemed more a compilation of memorable scenes than a fluid narrative. I associate this with overly faithful adaptations where the pacing and dialogue that works on the page isn't quite appropriate for the screen.
I agree everything with the kids was flat.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 7:47 AM on June 3, 2019 [6 favorites]
I cried multiple times and loved every minute. It was very metatextual and very much a love letter to Pratchett. I loved the easter eggs and the extra bit at the end with the trials. Brian Cox really nailed the voice of Death. There were so many parts of the books that I worried would not translate to the screen, but they came through.
posted by domo at 7:50 AM on June 3, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by domo at 7:50 AM on June 3, 2019 [1 favorite]
EmpressC, the text on the poster underneath the nebula thing says "Gallifrey"
posted by beandip at 8:12 AM on June 3, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by beandip at 8:12 AM on June 3, 2019 [3 favorites]
I think the main nitpick with the series is the same one i have with the books. The ending isn't as strong as the set-up or world building.
the climax just kind of doesn't .. which is a delightfully terry pratchet thing for it to do. But still feels like the air is let out.
posted by French Fry at 8:24 AM on June 3, 2019 [2 favorites]
the climax just kind of doesn't .. which is a delightfully terry pratchet thing for it to do. But still feels like the air is let out.
posted by French Fry at 8:24 AM on June 3, 2019 [2 favorites]
Please can we drop the Gallifrey thing already
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:54 AM on June 3, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:54 AM on June 3, 2019 [1 favorite]
That's what the Cult of Skaro said !
I'll see myself out....
posted by Pendragon at 9:24 AM on June 3, 2019 [19 favorites]
I'll see myself out....
posted by Pendragon at 9:24 AM on June 3, 2019 [19 favorites]
Anyone spot the extra dressed as Paddington Bear outside the bookshop? Which is also a location used in, I think, both Paddington 1 and 2. My wife's very sharp eyes caught it.
posted by Happy Dave at 11:43 AM on June 3, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by Happy Dave at 11:43 AM on June 3, 2019 [3 favorites]
I loved this so much. I cried, I loved it so much. I love the book deeply, and was so afraid an adaptation would suck, but it was pretty much perfect. (I agree that the kids needed more time. Maybe it needed one more episode, to really let us get to know the kids. Adam's turn at the end felt very abrupt, so maybe a little more time building that up, too. But those are small quibbles, because on the whole? Perfect.)
posted by sarcasticah at 12:55 PM on June 3, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by sarcasticah at 12:55 PM on June 3, 2019 [3 favorites]
I'm enjoying this so much that I'm rationing myself to two episodes a night in theory, but in practice I'm already on four. The chemistry between Tennant and Sheen is perfect, and I'm very much enjoying the other casting (was that Bill Bailey as one of the paintballers?). I don't even mind the voiceover, which is surely filling in for all the footnotes.
On a personal note, I was also enchanted to see that the Witchfinder Sergeant's flat is about two hundred yards down the road from where I live. It's taken them so long to film the thing that I'd completely forgotten the notes that came through all the doors in my area warning them of the filming about three years ago.
posted by Fuchsoid at 4:51 PM on June 3, 2019 [9 favorites]
On a personal note, I was also enchanted to see that the Witchfinder Sergeant's flat is about two hundred yards down the road from where I live. It's taken them so long to film the thing that I'd completely forgotten the notes that came through all the doors in my area warning them of the filming about three years ago.
posted by Fuchsoid at 4:51 PM on June 3, 2019 [9 favorites]
Well, it's going to be a few more evenings before I can finish up the series. I'm four and a half episodes through.
Having been a fan of the book since somewhere around 1992, and having read the book four times minimum, and having been skeptical yet optimistic that a screen adaptation was possible yet not inevitable, and having resigned myself to the probability that a screen adaptation would never happen, well, let's just say that I've been anxious.
Four and a half episodes through, I'm no longer anxious. I'm delirious. It's not without its flaws, sure, but we are living in the universe in which Good Omens The Book has a worthy screen adaptation, and that was by no means a foregone conclusion.
In an interview I watched earlier today, GNeil recounted Terry Gilliam's (ultimately doomed) efforts, over the past 30 years, to make a Good Omens movie, and then (with absolutely zero ill will toward Gilliam) breathe a deep sigh of relief that we now live in an age in which we can produce six hour long adaptations instead of being content with two hour long condensations of novels. He noted that there were something like 1200 scenes that required CGI. That would have been impossible, on their budget, even just a few years ago. It has been noted upthread that some of the special effects are spotty, but perhaps these can be overlooked given the context. I noticed exactly the same thing, but in even my first reading of Good Omens I somehow felt that the book didn't need a gazillion dollar budget. It just needed enough to get the idea across and then we all move on to the next wonderful moment.
Most of those wonderful moments, in my experience over the past few days, have been between Aziraphale and Crowley. I always thought that any adaptation of Good Omens absolutely had to get those two right. And this one does. Now I can't imagine any other Aziraphale nor any other Crowley. They lived in my mind for decades as products of my imagination, and I feel perfectly content handing off those imagined characters to these realized characters.
One thing that I've been wondering about is which of the actors are longtime aficionados of the book and which of them are newcomers to the material. David Tennant, of all people, who most of us in this thread seem to agree was born to play Crowley and there could never be any other, just learned about all this when he was presented with the part. After he landed the gig, he would mention it to folks, and very quickly realized that he was holding in his hands the power to finally fulfill or completely destroy our dreams. He speaks of this responsibility with humility and reverence, and this is not hyperbole.
My personal path is much closer to Michael Sheen's. He read a few volumes of Gaiman's Sandman in college, and picked up Good Omens not long after it was released, and, like many of us, has read it several times. Given his position and status as an actor, he befriended Gaiman and became attached to the project years ago, although he was originally pegged to play Crowley. In any case, his interest goes back decades, and Tennants' history with it is much more recent, yet they both inhabit the characters entirely and with abandon.
There's so much more to love. Adria Arjona is also a perfect Anathema Device, and I don't think the show would work nearly as well without Jon Hamm's Gabriel, and Hastur as played by Ned Dennehy is perfectly chilling. I think the Them is fine, and in episode five Adam is becoming quite threatening, so I'm okay with how that's playing out.
As much as I hate to admit it, Michael McKean just falls flat for me, and the show is not without its little dead ends here and there.
Oh, Episode Three, especially the first half recounting the history of Crowley and Aziraphale's relationship, immediately Episode Three catapulted itself to the top spot of episodes for me. The row between Aziraphale and Crowley at the end just broke me up.
If this show had, on balance, been a huge disappointment, I would have written just as many (okay, almost as many) words about how disappointed I was. But I've learned that other fans of Good Omens, the novel, published May 1, 1990, as well as one of the writers himself, managed to transmute their love for the novel, and drag along a few other unwitting participants, to create a miniseries worthy of the source material. It has been note upthread that this adaptation is a love letter to the book, warts and all, and I think that's exactly right. As sappy as this will sound, it feels like a new incarnation.
posted by vverse23 at 11:50 PM on June 3, 2019 [14 favorites]
Having been a fan of the book since somewhere around 1992, and having read the book four times minimum, and having been skeptical yet optimistic that a screen adaptation was possible yet not inevitable, and having resigned myself to the probability that a screen adaptation would never happen, well, let's just say that I've been anxious.
Four and a half episodes through, I'm no longer anxious. I'm delirious. It's not without its flaws, sure, but we are living in the universe in which Good Omens The Book has a worthy screen adaptation, and that was by no means a foregone conclusion.
In an interview I watched earlier today, GNeil recounted Terry Gilliam's (ultimately doomed) efforts, over the past 30 years, to make a Good Omens movie, and then (with absolutely zero ill will toward Gilliam) breathe a deep sigh of relief that we now live in an age in which we can produce six hour long adaptations instead of being content with two hour long condensations of novels. He noted that there were something like 1200 scenes that required CGI. That would have been impossible, on their budget, even just a few years ago. It has been noted upthread that some of the special effects are spotty, but perhaps these can be overlooked given the context. I noticed exactly the same thing, but in even my first reading of Good Omens I somehow felt that the book didn't need a gazillion dollar budget. It just needed enough to get the idea across and then we all move on to the next wonderful moment.
Most of those wonderful moments, in my experience over the past few days, have been between Aziraphale and Crowley. I always thought that any adaptation of Good Omens absolutely had to get those two right. And this one does. Now I can't imagine any other Aziraphale nor any other Crowley. They lived in my mind for decades as products of my imagination, and I feel perfectly content handing off those imagined characters to these realized characters.
One thing that I've been wondering about is which of the actors are longtime aficionados of the book and which of them are newcomers to the material. David Tennant, of all people, who most of us in this thread seem to agree was born to play Crowley and there could never be any other, just learned about all this when he was presented with the part. After he landed the gig, he would mention it to folks, and very quickly realized that he was holding in his hands the power to finally fulfill or completely destroy our dreams. He speaks of this responsibility with humility and reverence, and this is not hyperbole.
My personal path is much closer to Michael Sheen's. He read a few volumes of Gaiman's Sandman in college, and picked up Good Omens not long after it was released, and, like many of us, has read it several times. Given his position and status as an actor, he befriended Gaiman and became attached to the project years ago, although he was originally pegged to play Crowley. In any case, his interest goes back decades, and Tennants' history with it is much more recent, yet they both inhabit the characters entirely and with abandon.
There's so much more to love. Adria Arjona is also a perfect Anathema Device, and I don't think the show would work nearly as well without Jon Hamm's Gabriel, and Hastur as played by Ned Dennehy is perfectly chilling. I think the Them is fine, and in episode five Adam is becoming quite threatening, so I'm okay with how that's playing out.
As much as I hate to admit it, Michael McKean just falls flat for me, and the show is not without its little dead ends here and there.
Oh, Episode Three, especially the first half recounting the history of Crowley and Aziraphale's relationship, immediately Episode Three catapulted itself to the top spot of episodes for me. The row between Aziraphale and Crowley at the end just broke me up.
If this show had, on balance, been a huge disappointment, I would have written just as many (okay, almost as many) words about how disappointed I was. But I've learned that other fans of Good Omens, the novel, published May 1, 1990, as well as one of the writers himself, managed to transmute their love for the novel, and drag along a few other unwitting participants, to create a miniseries worthy of the source material. It has been note upthread that this adaptation is a love letter to the book, warts and all, and I think that's exactly right. As sappy as this will sound, it feels like a new incarnation.
posted by vverse23 at 11:50 PM on June 3, 2019 [14 favorites]
So I couldn't sleep last night and decided to binge this again. I gotta say I love Tennant's swagger as Arizaphale. Seriously just the WALK is entertaining.
posted by miss-lapin at 2:17 AM on June 4, 2019 [14 favorites]
posted by miss-lapin at 2:17 AM on June 4, 2019 [14 favorites]
Tennant's swagger as Arizaphale
...Crowley, I believe you mean.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:58 AM on June 4, 2019 [4 favorites]
...Crowley, I believe you mean.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:58 AM on June 4, 2019 [4 favorites]
Tennant's Crowley is truly magical. Neither of them are the Crowley and Aziraphale I've had in my head all this time, and neither of them are Crowley and Aziraphale from the book - there are differences in characterization, I think, that come from the need to externalize internal monologues, retool character arcs to accommodate different plot threads/timeframes/et cetera, and any number of other adaptational needs. And yet? Magical. They are so perfectly... well, perfect as the characters that they are, in the setting they inhabit: a cinematic version of the story of Good Omens, taking place one universe over.
posted by jurymast at 3:35 AM on June 4, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by jurymast at 3:35 AM on June 4, 2019 [5 favorites]
Also, I am still - and cannot express the extent to which I have been - in a permanent state of galaxy brain since Friday over the existence of a version of Crowley with curly red hair.
Even if I hated everything else about the TV version, I would be grateful for this glimpse into such a bafflingly amazing alternate reality.
posted by jurymast at 3:49 AM on June 4, 2019 [2 favorites]
Even if I hated everything else about the TV version, I would be grateful for this glimpse into such a bafflingly amazing alternate reality.
posted by jurymast at 3:49 AM on June 4, 2019 [2 favorites]
I was glad Jon Hamm turned up (his career path is so random these days that I can only assume he puts every project he likes in a bag and chooses his next role at random).
He talks about it some in his appearance on 'David Tennant Does a Podcast With...'. At this point in his career he feels he can do whatever he wants, so why not?
It feels like 90% of 'David Tennant Does a Podcast With...' is just Tennant getting together with people he has worked with in the past to talk about the times they had together, what it means to them to be an actor, and how fame has affected them. To me, Tennant has always come across as a nice guy, and for someone to be able to get that many of their former coworkers to laugh and spend time with them probably means that they are one in real life.
It's an enjoyable podcast, and I would recommend giving it a listen.
posted by Quonab at 7:34 AM on June 4, 2019 [7 favorites]
He talks about it some in his appearance on 'David Tennant Does a Podcast With...'. At this point in his career he feels he can do whatever he wants, so why not?
It feels like 90% of 'David Tennant Does a Podcast With...' is just Tennant getting together with people he has worked with in the past to talk about the times they had together, what it means to them to be an actor, and how fame has affected them. To me, Tennant has always come across as a nice guy, and for someone to be able to get that many of their former coworkers to laugh and spend time with them probably means that they are one in real life.
It's an enjoyable podcast, and I would recommend giving it a listen.
posted by Quonab at 7:34 AM on June 4, 2019 [7 favorites]
It's been at least 15 years since I read the book so I can't be certain what's adapted or unique, but one of Crowley's character bits I love is his slow burn reactions to things because he can't let something go and has to revisit it when there's a moment available. I particularly love his eventual rant at Aziraphale over his assumption that The Velvet Underground's music is Bebop.
posted by acidnova at 9:39 AM on June 4, 2019 [17 favorites]
posted by acidnova at 9:39 AM on June 4, 2019 [17 favorites]
...one of Crowley's character bits I love is his slow burn reactions to things because he can't let something go and has to revisit it when there's a moment available.
"Ducks! That's what water slides off!"
posted by vverse23 at 10:55 AM on June 4, 2019 [26 favorites]
"Ducks! That's what water slides off!"
posted by vverse23 at 10:55 AM on June 4, 2019 [26 favorites]
Aziraphale had tried to explain it to him once. The whole point, he'd said—this was somewhere around 1020, when they'd first reached their little Arrangement—the whole point was that when a human was good or bad it was because they wanted to be. Whereas people like Crowley and, of course, himself, were set in their ways right from the start. People couldn't become truly holy, he said, unless they also had the opportunity to be definitively wicked.Emphasis mine.
Crowley had thought about this for some time and, around about 1023, had said, Hang on, that only works, right, if you start everyone off equal, okay? You can't start someone off in a muddy shack in the middle of a war zone and expect them to do as well as someone born in a castle.
posted by jurymast at 11:22 AM on June 4, 2019 [28 favorites]
Oh gosh I loved this. I thought what they did with different versions of the theme for the end credits each episode was a nice touch.
posted by Wretch729 at 11:29 AM on June 4, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by Wretch729 at 11:29 AM on June 4, 2019 [2 favorites]
there are differences in characterization, I think, that come from the need to externalize internal monologues
The only adaptation difference that I'm not sure works for me is having "sauntered vaguely downward" come out of Crowley's mouth rather than through narration, and not until the third episode or so. Mostly because it seems a bit too introspective for Crowley to put it that way himself.
posted by asperity at 11:41 AM on June 4, 2019 [2 favorites]
The only adaptation difference that I'm not sure works for me is having "sauntered vaguely downward" come out of Crowley's mouth rather than through narration, and not until the third episode or so. Mostly because it seems a bit too introspective for Crowley to put it that way himself.
posted by asperity at 11:41 AM on June 4, 2019 [2 favorites]
"sauntered vaguely downward"
I'm just going to pick up on this while still on Episode 2. Sauntered. Sauntered. I'm still trying to put words around Tennant's sexy walk. Is it natural, the pants, rehearsed, or the channeling of Mick, Freddy, and Robert? It somehow manages to perfectly triangulate machismo, nonchalance, and swish in a way that would look horribly affected if I saw it on one of the students I work around. But on Crowley it's just perfectly in character and totally delicious.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 1:19 PM on June 4, 2019 [11 favorites]
I'm just going to pick up on this while still on Episode 2. Sauntered. Sauntered. I'm still trying to put words around Tennant's sexy walk. Is it natural, the pants, rehearsed, or the channeling of Mick, Freddy, and Robert? It somehow manages to perfectly triangulate machismo, nonchalance, and swish in a way that would look horribly affected if I saw it on one of the students I work around. But on Crowley it's just perfectly in character and totally delicious.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 1:19 PM on June 4, 2019 [11 favorites]
I loved this! I like the book, but I want to love it, and years go by between readings and then I'll be looking for a book and I'll think "ooh! I'll read Good Omens! It's relevant to my interests!", and then it just...kinda doesn't do what I want it to. Although I've read it several times so....
THIS though....I loved. I thought almost all of the differences from the book were just fine (although I wish they'd cut some of the narration, even though it's from the book). It was funny and surprisingly really moving and beautifully shot....and I could watch slinky David Tennant channel vampire Billy Nighy from "Underworld" all day.
I especially loved the "choose your faces wisely" part at the end where the actors did a truly impressive job of channeling each other acting their characters. That was impressive.
posted by biscotti at 1:43 PM on June 4, 2019 [11 favorites]
THIS though....I loved. I thought almost all of the differences from the book were just fine (although I wish they'd cut some of the narration, even though it's from the book). It was funny and surprisingly really moving and beautifully shot....and I could watch slinky David Tennant channel vampire Billy Nighy from "Underworld" all day.
I especially loved the "choose your faces wisely" part at the end where the actors did a truly impressive job of channeling each other acting their characters. That was impressive.
posted by biscotti at 1:43 PM on June 4, 2019 [11 favorites]
The only adaptation difference that I'm not sure works for me is having "sauntered vaguely downward" come out of Crowley's mouth rather than through narration, and not until the third episode or so. Mostly because it seems a bit too introspective for Crowley to put it that way himself.
Tennant's line reading (which was awesome) did not come across as introspective to me at all but much more deflective as in a, "I didn't fall! I totally meant to do that!" kind of way.
posted by acidnova at 2:03 PM on June 4, 2019 [7 favorites]
Tennant's line reading (which was awesome) did not come across as introspective to me at all but much more deflective as in a, "I didn't fall! I totally meant to do that!" kind of way.
posted by acidnova at 2:03 PM on June 4, 2019 [7 favorites]
The criticisms I'm seeing (They had Frances McDormand and overindulged) are fair. But taken as a whole this is one of the greatest queer love stories I've ever seen. And it was just...nice I guess you'd say. It was cool to watch somrthing optimistic in 2019 that (mostly) didn't make me roll my eyes.
posted by East14thTaco at 3:03 PM on June 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by East14thTaco at 3:03 PM on June 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
"I'm still trying to put words around Tennant's sexy walk."
I was utterly enthralled with it through the whole thing. You're right that it's some unholy whole of disparate parts of a charisma bomb.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 3:13 PM on June 4, 2019 [4 favorites]
I was utterly enthralled with it through the whole thing. You're right that it's some unholy whole of disparate parts of a charisma bomb.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 3:13 PM on June 4, 2019 [4 favorites]
I think I want to dress as Crowley next halloween just so I can do that walk
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 3:35 PM on June 4, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 3:35 PM on June 4, 2019 [5 favorites]
Loved the book, and loved this show so goddamn much. David Tennant is always amazing. My spouse loved it too, and said to me some of the most beautiful words one can speak to a loved one:
"We should watch everything David Tennant has ever done. Starting with Dr. Who."
posted by lazaruslong at 4:19 PM on June 4, 2019 [9 favorites]
"We should watch everything David Tennant has ever done. Starting with Dr. Who."
posted by lazaruslong at 4:19 PM on June 4, 2019 [9 favorites]
Worth watching alone for Death's line about dying.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 4:24 PM on June 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 4:24 PM on June 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
I have neither read this book nor anything by either Pratchett or Gaiman, and I absolutely loved this show from start to finish. The only problem I have is that there is not more of it. It was warm, funny, optimistic, and poked apart Christian mythology in fantastic ways. And it was SO GAY. I liked the Narrator, which I did not find overdone. War. Dog. I was NOT expecting the switch at the end; I thought they both lived because Crowley was "good enough" to not be burned by holy water while Aziraphale was "bad enough" to not be burned by hell fire. I liked Them. And I especially loved Crowley and Aziraphale.
I have now bought a copy of the book to read.
posted by apex_ at 4:39 PM on June 4, 2019 [15 favorites]
I have now bought a copy of the book to read.
posted by apex_ at 4:39 PM on June 4, 2019 [15 favorites]
apex_at, re-watch the end. The final prophesy was something about minding your face. Crowley shape-shifted into Aziraphale and went to heaven and played the part, Aziraphale shape-shifted into Crowley and went to hell and played the part. They pulled a fast-one on the powers that be.
On the uninitiated front I only know G&P works in passing. The few graphic novels I've flipped through in bookstores and the odd BBC adaptation. Have no clue about the book or any more than passing knowledge about the source material and authors.
Still enjoyed it. The Doctor makes a very good evil, almost like Who sorta prepared him for the time and moral ambiguity bits and/or he's the only one I recognize actor-wise. I liked the Monty Python - Lite or just sorta dry brit humor. It only takes a couple of good lines here and there to make me snort and chuckle. Queen was the soundtrack of my youth and I like cars, so that whole bit just made me happy every time. (aside: it probably doesn't help that I had just watched Abbie Eaton reveals who's the best driver out of Clarkson, Hammond & May a Q&A with the new World Tour/nee Top Gear pro race driver lady who also prefers Queen for driving music...)
As a bit of an Anime fan I actually enjoy and prefer the short story it's done and over sort of stories and don't really want some long and drawn-out never-ending series. Wrap it up and put a bow on it.
So clueless Gaiman/Pratchett thought it was pretty good. No complaints.
posted by zengargoyle at 5:17 PM on June 4, 2019 [2 favorites]
On the uninitiated front I only know G&P works in passing. The few graphic novels I've flipped through in bookstores and the odd BBC adaptation. Have no clue about the book or any more than passing knowledge about the source material and authors.
Still enjoyed it. The Doctor makes a very good evil, almost like Who sorta prepared him for the time and moral ambiguity bits and/or he's the only one I recognize actor-wise. I liked the Monty Python - Lite or just sorta dry brit humor. It only takes a couple of good lines here and there to make me snort and chuckle. Queen was the soundtrack of my youth and I like cars, so that whole bit just made me happy every time. (aside: it probably doesn't help that I had just watched Abbie Eaton reveals who's the best driver out of Clarkson, Hammond & May a Q&A with the new World Tour/nee Top Gear pro race driver lady who also prefers Queen for driving music...)
As a bit of an Anime fan I actually enjoy and prefer the short story it's done and over sort of stories and don't really want some long and drawn-out never-ending series. Wrap it up and put a bow on it.
So clueless Gaiman/Pratchett thought it was pretty good. No complaints.
posted by zengargoyle at 5:17 PM on June 4, 2019 [2 favorites]
That's why I loved burning the second book of prophecies. "Nope, you had your fun. Not doing this anymore."
posted by East14thTaco at 6:21 PM on June 4, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by East14thTaco at 6:21 PM on June 4, 2019 [5 favorites]
apex_at, re-watch the end. The final prophesy was something about minding your face.
One of the fun things about the ending is picking up where things are off about each character, because they're temporarily in the wrong body (the most obvious, I think, is when a strangely unslinky "Crowley" is too happy to see his Bentley...which he then doesn't drive).
posted by thomas j wise at 6:27 PM on June 4, 2019 [15 favorites]
One of the fun things about the ending is picking up where things are off about each character, because they're temporarily in the wrong body (the most obvious, I think, is when a strangely unslinky "Crowley" is too happy to see his Bentley...which he then doesn't drive).
posted by thomas j wise at 6:27 PM on June 4, 2019 [15 favorites]
I really enjoyed this! But I don't understand- did I miss the line? Or did they pay all that money to license those Queen songs and omit the joke that any tape left in a car for more than a fortnight turns into The Best of Queen?
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:00 PM on June 4, 2019 [8 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:00 PM on June 4, 2019 [8 favorites]
Just finished watching it, and it was lovely! Especially the end which, to be a little heretical (ahem), I thought was rather better than the book.
I also liked that they managed to squeeze in practically every British comedy actor, at least as voice-overs. And Brian Cox as Death was an excellent successor to Christopher Lee and Ian Richardson who have alas both gone on to meet him in person . Also Benedict Cumberbatch as Satan (tee hee). It's 4 am here, so I probably should go to bed, or perhaps just start the day early, or maybe begin a re-read. And I'm still very chuffed to see the horrible pizza place down the road on telly.
posted by Fuchsoid at 8:23 PM on June 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
I also liked that they managed to squeeze in practically every British comedy actor, at least as voice-overs. And Brian Cox as Death was an excellent successor to Christopher Lee and Ian Richardson who have alas both gone on to meet him in person . Also Benedict Cumberbatch as Satan (tee hee). It's 4 am here, so I probably should go to bed, or perhaps just start the day early, or maybe begin a re-read. And I'm still very chuffed to see the horrible pizza place down the road on telly.
posted by Fuchsoid at 8:23 PM on June 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
Oh, and that looked like they were having afternoon tea at the Ritz, Maybe they were too late for lunch?
posted by Fuchsoid at 8:24 PM on June 4, 2019
posted by Fuchsoid at 8:24 PM on June 4, 2019
Or did they pay all that money to license those Queen songs and omit the joke that any tape left in a car for more than a fortnight turns into The Best of Queen?
The omitted the joke. Not sure why.
posted by greermahoney at 8:38 PM on June 4, 2019 [6 favorites]
The omitted the joke. Not sure why.
posted by greermahoney at 8:38 PM on June 4, 2019 [6 favorites]
Oh, I just read on Twitter that Neil wanted to keep it a subtle thing that only the book-readers would know about.
posted by greermahoney at 8:43 PM on June 4, 2019 [15 favorites]
posted by greermahoney at 8:43 PM on June 4, 2019 [15 favorites]
gladly: John Hamm having lavender eyes at the end?
He has purple eyes throughout the miniseries. Maybe your screen was off a bit?
posted by tzikeh at 9:55 PM on June 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
He has purple eyes throughout the miniseries. Maybe your screen was off a bit?
posted by tzikeh at 9:55 PM on June 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
He had purple-ish eyes throughout the series, although on my screen, it looked like they definitely varied in intensity/brightness. Might have just been the lighting, but the difference was noticeable enough to me that I chalked it up to the same sort of principle as Crowley's snake eyes. In resting state, only the irises are yellow; meanwhile, the more effort he's expending/the closer he is to his demonic state, the whole sclera turns yellow. I'd have to track it scene by scene, but it felt the same for Gabriel - the more heavenly and Terrible™ he is, the more purple his eyes appear.
posted by jurymast at 12:45 AM on June 5, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by jurymast at 12:45 AM on June 5, 2019 [3 favorites]
Oh boy, a solid 10% of the comments on this thread are by me, and I'M NOT DONE YET, SORRY.
I've been listening to bits of the score on repeat, and right at this particular moment in time, it is my firm opinion that I have never heard a single thing as glad as the triumphant, spangly surge of guitars when Aziraphale-as-Crowley first sees Crowley's restored Bentley.
After all, you can't just make an old Bentley. You can't get the patina. But there it was, large as life. Right there in the street. You can't tell the difference.
posted by jurymast at 2:49 AM on June 5, 2019 [3 favorites]
I've been listening to bits of the score on repeat, and right at this particular moment in time, it is my firm opinion that I have never heard a single thing as glad as the triumphant, spangly surge of guitars when Aziraphale-as-Crowley first sees Crowley's restored Bentley.
After all, you can't just make an old Bentley. You can't get the patina. But there it was, large as life. Right there in the street. You can't tell the difference.
posted by jurymast at 2:49 AM on June 5, 2019 [3 favorites]
My spouse loved it too, and said to me some of the most beautiful words one can speak to a loved one: "We should watch everything David Tennant has ever done. Starting with Dr. Who."
Curious to hear her take on the St. Trinian's film or on Rab C Nesbit.
People in AskMe are hearing me regale them with tales of My Computer Which Has Died Alas, but I somehow managed to stream all of the episodes just before it went belly-up. I blame Crowley for the latter and credit Aziraphale with the former.
Also, I'm curious- would you say that this is 9-year-old-kid friendly? Some of my social circle has kids.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:26 AM on June 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
Curious to hear her take on the St. Trinian's film or on Rab C Nesbit.
People in AskMe are hearing me regale them with tales of My Computer Which Has Died Alas, but I somehow managed to stream all of the episodes just before it went belly-up. I blame Crowley for the latter and credit Aziraphale with the former.
Also, I'm curious- would you say that this is 9-year-old-kid friendly? Some of my social circle has kids.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:26 AM on June 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
IMPORTANT CORRECTION:
I blame Crowley for my computer dying and credit Aziraphale with my managing to stream all the episodes before it did.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:24 AM on June 5, 2019 [4 favorites]
I blame Crowley for my computer dying and credit Aziraphale with my managing to stream all the episodes before it did.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:24 AM on June 5, 2019 [4 favorites]
Aside from one very pointed “FUCK!” In the 5th? episode (and most 9 year olds are well aware of the word), I can’t think of anything too unreasonable.
I loved the series, enough to make a friend binge watch it when he is here this weekend. He’s the friend who recommended me to read the book some 20 years ago. <3
posted by Fleebnork at 2:34 PM on June 5, 2019
I loved the series, enough to make a friend binge watch it when he is here this weekend. He’s the friend who recommended me to read the book some 20 years ago. <3
posted by Fleebnork at 2:34 PM on June 5, 2019
Also, I'm curious- would you say that this is 9-year-old-kid friendly? Some of my social circle has kids.
Working from memory here: two f-words (I think), some very mild sexy scenes, some of the demons may be scary to sensitive kids. Also, Adam is a jerk to his friends when he comes into his powers, and this is what my kid in particular would be bugged by.
Common Sense Media has a review up.
posted by vverse23 at 2:41 PM on June 5, 2019 [3 favorites]
Working from memory here: two f-words (I think), some very mild sexy scenes, some of the demons may be scary to sensitive kids. Also, Adam is a jerk to his friends when he comes into his powers, and this is what my kid in particular would be bugged by.
Common Sense Media has a review up.
posted by vverse23 at 2:41 PM on June 5, 2019 [3 favorites]
Prachett's Hat and Scarf had their own seat for the Good Omens premiere.
They make a cameo in the series too. In Aziraphale's bookshop in the background, you really have to look for them.
posted by scalefree at 11:56 PM on June 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
They make a cameo in the series too. In Aziraphale's bookshop in the background, you really have to look for them.
posted by scalefree at 11:56 PM on June 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
Also, the product placement for Neil’s books was tacky.
So you didn't like that the gate guard at the Air Force base was reading American Gods.
posted by scalefree at 11:59 PM on June 5, 2019
So you didn't like that the gate guard at the Air Force base was reading American Gods.
posted by scalefree at 11:59 PM on June 5, 2019
Anyone else notice Adam's dad's car's numberplate at the end - SID RAT?
There were actually several cars with that plate, they kind of used it a lot. But did you catch Pulsifer's tie in a striped pattern quite reminiscent of a certain very long scarf ?
yes I read all the Easter eggs, so sue me.
posted by scalefree at 12:44 AM on June 6, 2019 [2 favorites]
There were actually several cars with that plate, they kind of used it a lot. But did you catch Pulsifer's tie in a striped pattern quite reminiscent of a certain very long scarf ?
yes I read all the Easter eggs, so sue me.
posted by scalefree at 12:44 AM on June 6, 2019 [2 favorites]
In fairness I was looking hard & spotted a few of them on my own.
posted by scalefree at 12:45 AM on June 6, 2019
posted by scalefree at 12:45 AM on June 6, 2019
I loved this so much! I read the book every few years and I listened to the BBC radio play and I firmly believe this is the best adaptation of a Pratchett and Gaiman story ever. I really missed the alternative Hells Angels (although I understand why there were left out) and I wish the Them had been fleshed out more (particularly Pepper) but on the whole it was amazingly well done.
posted by h00py at 7:35 AM on June 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by h00py at 7:35 AM on June 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
Loved it, had no big problem with the changes, although I did miss the bit where the soldier wakes up at home. (I didn't miss The Other Four Horsemen; IMO it was a joke that went on a bit too long in the book.) And centering Crowley and Aziraphale more solidly as the protagonists was fine, as was everything that supported their shippers. I even liked Adam's "you're not my real dad" moment.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:11 AM on June 6, 2019
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:11 AM on June 6, 2019
Has it REALLY been less than a week since this was released? Seems like ages.
Also, I've been catching myself sauntering like Crowley around the grocery store, so that's new.
posted by vverse23 at 9:58 AM on June 6, 2019 [10 favorites]
Also, I've been catching myself sauntering like Crowley around the grocery store, so that's new.
posted by vverse23 at 9:58 AM on June 6, 2019 [10 favorites]
David Tennant is Crowley. Could it have been someone else? No. There is none more Crowley.
I adored Tennant but also posit that Bill Nighy would have been acceptable...?
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 10:47 AM on June 6, 2019 [4 favorites]
I adored Tennant but also posit that Bill Nighy would have been acceptable...?
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 10:47 AM on June 6, 2019 [4 favorites]
The Heck's Angels parts are admittedly parts of the book that I tend to skip.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:46 AM on June 6, 2019
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:46 AM on June 6, 2019
David Tennant is Crowley. Could it have been someone else? No. There is none more Crowley.
I adored Tennant but also posit that Bill Nighy would have been acceptable
Nighy would also have made a great Shadwell.
posted by acidnova at 11:50 AM on June 6, 2019 [8 favorites]
I adored Tennant but also posit that Bill Nighy would have been acceptable
Nighy would also have made a great Shadwell.
posted by acidnova at 11:50 AM on June 6, 2019 [8 favorites]
Nighy would also have made a great Shadwell.
OMG ALL OF THIS. While I love Michael McKean, he didn't....feel right as Shadwell. I hate to say this, but he was too good natured from the outset. Nighy could definitely pull off bristly while still endearing.
posted by miss-lapin at 4:31 PM on June 6, 2019 [6 favorites]
OMG ALL OF THIS. While I love Michael McKean, he didn't....feel right as Shadwell. I hate to say this, but he was too good natured from the outset. Nighy could definitely pull off bristly while still endearing.
posted by miss-lapin at 4:31 PM on June 6, 2019 [6 favorites]
Nighy would also have made a great Shadwell.
Dare I say, a better one?
posted by greermahoney at 6:51 PM on June 6, 2019 [4 favorites]
Dare I say, a better one?
posted by greermahoney at 6:51 PM on June 6, 2019 [4 favorites]
Maybe in his prime, but he's getting on in years and wouldn't do shouty so well.
I'm now picturing Frankie Boyle, who would get the indignation right, but probably not the rest of the character.
posted by Marticus at 9:42 PM on June 6, 2019
I'm now picturing Frankie Boyle, who would get the indignation right, but probably not the rest of the character.
posted by Marticus at 9:42 PM on June 6, 2019
The whole "you're not my real dad" bit made me cry--but maybe that's because we're just a week away from Father's Day, and my real dad is definitely my step-dad.
posted by meese at 11:06 PM on June 8, 2019 [9 favorites]
posted by meese at 11:06 PM on June 8, 2019 [9 favorites]
Aw, there's a deleted scene with Crowley and Aziraphale, set around the opening of Azirphale's bookstore.
posted by Pronoiac at 1:08 AM on June 10, 2019 [8 favorites]
posted by Pronoiac at 1:08 AM on June 10, 2019 [8 favorites]
Neil Gaiman: The statue in Crowley's flat. "it represents," said the Production Designer, Michael Ralph, "Good and evil wrestling with evil triumphing." "...are you certain that they're wrestling?" I asked.
posted by Pronoiac at 1:34 AM on June 10, 2019 [21 favorites]
posted by Pronoiac at 1:34 AM on June 10, 2019 [21 favorites]
Nearly 30 years on from the publication of the book, there are certain things that mark it as really of its time. The replacement of Pestilence with Pollution really stood out to me. Writing it now, the Pestilence role almost casts itself...
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 6:26 AM on June 10, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 6:26 AM on June 10, 2019 [4 favorites]
The replacement of Pestilence with Pollution really stood out to me.
Except Pollution is in the novel. Pestilence was replaced by Pollution in the novel, not just 30 years later for this series. Unless I'm misunderstanding you.
(IMO they should have switched back to Pestilence for the mini-series and cast a suburban anti-vax mom type.)
posted by tzikeh at 11:53 PM on June 10, 2019 [2 favorites]
Except Pollution is in the novel. Pestilence was replaced by Pollution in the novel, not just 30 years later for this series. Unless I'm misunderstanding you.
(IMO they should have switched back to Pestilence for the mini-series and cast a suburban anti-vax mom type.)
posted by tzikeh at 11:53 PM on June 10, 2019 [2 favorites]
I rather thought they shoulda replaced famine with malnutrition.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 1:53 AM on June 11, 2019
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 1:53 AM on June 11, 2019
(IMO they should have switched back to Pestilence for the mini-series and cast a suburban anti-vax mom type.)
Oh that would have been PERFECT.
I rather thought they shoulda replaced famine with malnutrition.
They kind of did, with CHOW. They didn't really set it up as weight loss food the way they did in the book. (Although IIRC in the book it was MEALS?)
posted by Fleebnork at 7:31 AM on June 11, 2019 [5 favorites]
Oh that would have been PERFECT.
I rather thought they shoulda replaced famine with malnutrition.
They kind of did, with CHOW. They didn't really set it up as weight loss food the way they did in the book. (Although IIRC in the book it was MEALS?)
posted by Fleebnork at 7:31 AM on June 11, 2019 [5 favorites]
Except Pollution is in the novel. Pestilence was replaced by Pollution in the novel, not just 30 years later for this series. Unless I'm misunderstanding you.
Yes, the replacement of Pestilence with Pollution dated the novel.
cast a suburban anti-vax mom type
I had in mind a doctor like (not a doctor any more) Wakefield, but yeah.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 9:01 AM on June 11, 2019
Yes, the replacement of Pestilence with Pollution dated the novel.
cast a suburban anti-vax mom type
I had in mind a doctor like (not a doctor any more) Wakefield, but yeah.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 9:01 AM on June 11, 2019
It was both MEALS and CHOW in the book IIRC.
We enjoyed the Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead shoutout in the Hamlet scene (when they flip a coin and it comes up heads). Seems intentional since Crowley and Aziraphale have somewhat the role of commenting on things and hardly ever doing anything useful.
posted by chaiminda at 10:29 AM on June 11, 2019 [8 favorites]
We enjoyed the Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead shoutout in the Hamlet scene (when they flip a coin and it comes up heads). Seems intentional since Crowley and Aziraphale have somewhat the role of commenting on things and hardly ever doing anything useful.
posted by chaiminda at 10:29 AM on June 11, 2019 [8 favorites]
Bachelor Chow: Now with Flavor.
posted by Marticus at 6:05 PM on June 11, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by Marticus at 6:05 PM on June 11, 2019 [3 favorites]
It's been mentioned, but I want to restate that Crowley screaming at his houseplants was crème de la crème. The whole caste was fabulous, but I think Crowley's a particularly charismatic character and Tennant really hit it out of park.
This was really fun, and I know the devotion to the source material caused some storytelling problems, but at the same time I think it's really refreshing they didn't try to turn it into a franchise, or spread it out into 3 seasons, or anything to that effect. They gave the story the space it needed and told it. Just what I hoped it'd be.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 1:17 PM on June 12, 2019 [7 favorites]
This was really fun, and I know the devotion to the source material caused some storytelling problems, but at the same time I think it's really refreshing they didn't try to turn it into a franchise, or spread it out into 3 seasons, or anything to that effect. They gave the story the space it needed and told it. Just what I hoped it'd be.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 1:17 PM on June 12, 2019 [7 favorites]
I've not read the book, but the absence of Jesus, but Satan showing up, seemed odd to me. Also why have the Voice of God Narration and the Metatron. ( I guess the God narration wasn't in the book? )
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 6:49 PM on June 12, 2019
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 6:49 PM on June 12, 2019
There was a crucifixion scene in the flashback start for episode 3.
God had compassion, I thought; Metatron was a corporate stooge.
posted by Pronoiac at 8:11 PM on June 12, 2019 [1 favorite]
God had compassion, I thought; Metatron was a corporate stooge.
posted by Pronoiac at 8:11 PM on June 12, 2019 [1 favorite]
"Also why have the Voice of God Narration and the Metatron."
In-universe, no one heard that narration. Only us.
Canonically, that God almost never says anything to anyone except, I dunno, Moses, or is seen or even willing to reveal its name. God is just weird that way. Thus the Metatron.
But, like all readers, we're special and we get a peak behind the curtain. The Writer speaks directly to us.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:36 AM on June 13, 2019 [5 favorites]
In-universe, no one heard that narration. Only us.
Canonically, that God almost never says anything to anyone except, I dunno, Moses, or is seen or even willing to reveal its name. God is just weird that way. Thus the Metatron.
But, like all readers, we're special and we get a peak behind the curtain. The Writer speaks directly to us.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:36 AM on June 13, 2019 [5 favorites]
The Writer speaks directly to us.
Yes, and a lot of the God exposition was Pratchett descriptions of things or situations, which I enjoyed.
posted by Fleebnork at 6:57 AM on June 13, 2019 [3 favorites]
Yes, and a lot of the God exposition was Pratchett descriptions of things or situations, which I enjoyed.
posted by Fleebnork at 6:57 AM on June 13, 2019 [3 favorites]
After I went to bed, I was like 'oh yeah there was the crucifixion' but nothing after that. Seemed odd, that the end of the world and Satan makes an appearance after the 4 Horseman were vanquished and Christ not at all.
Enjoyed the series though.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 4:37 PM on June 13, 2019
Enjoyed the series though.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 4:37 PM on June 13, 2019
Uh I don't think Christ appears in Revelations (which is where the antichrist and the 4 horse people come from). I could be wrong. Anyone?
posted by miss-lapin at 5:56 PM on June 13, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by miss-lapin at 5:56 PM on June 13, 2019 [1 favorite]
I think thinking too hard about the theology of this book/series is a mistake. I liked that in the series they at least mentioned non-Judeo-Christian people (at the time of the flood), but it still doesn't bear a lot of scrutiny.
posted by chaiminda at 3:31 AM on June 14, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by chaiminda at 3:31 AM on June 14, 2019 [5 favorites]
Someone help me with this one little moment...
In the 1860s scene, Crowley gets upset when Aziraphale uses the word "fraternizing." What do you all make of this? Why does that word upset him?
posted by meese at 12:08 PM on June 14, 2019 [1 favorite]
In the 1860s scene, Crowley gets upset when Aziraphale uses the word "fraternizing." What do you all make of this? Why does that word upset him?
posted by meese at 12:08 PM on June 14, 2019 [1 favorite]
The spin put on "fraternizing" sounds a lot like Crowley is implying that there's fuckin' going on.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:30 PM on June 14, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:30 PM on June 14, 2019 [1 favorite]
Hm... Having thought about it a bit more, here's an interpretation...
There's a basic miscommunication between Crowley and Aziraphale in this scene, specifically about what the holy water is for. Aziraphale makes clear he assumes Crowley would use the holy water to kill himself. Crowley, in this scene, only says that it would be a form of insurance, in case things go pear shaped. Given what we later see Crowley do with the holy water, it seems reasonable that he intended, from the beginning, to use the holy water to attack any other demon that might come to get him (or Aziraphale).
In this scene, then, Aziraphale hears Crowley saying this: "I want holy water, so I can take care of myself in case my side comes after me." Aziraphale doesn't assume he factors into Crowley's plans at all.
Crowley, on the other hand, I believe is saying this: "I will start war with heaven and hell both, if they ever threaten either of us."
This, I now think, is why 'fraternizing' upsets Crowley. You use the word 'fraternize' to describe interactions with someone you shouldn't. It's laying clear, yet again, that Aziraphale doesn't see himself as aligned with Crowley. This explains why Crowley comes back with the biting retort that there are plenty of other people he can fraternize with -- having been confronted yet again with the fact that Aziraphale is not committed to him, Crowley puts up emotional armor.
posted by meese at 2:07 PM on June 14, 2019 [16 favorites]
There's a basic miscommunication between Crowley and Aziraphale in this scene, specifically about what the holy water is for. Aziraphale makes clear he assumes Crowley would use the holy water to kill himself. Crowley, in this scene, only says that it would be a form of insurance, in case things go pear shaped. Given what we later see Crowley do with the holy water, it seems reasonable that he intended, from the beginning, to use the holy water to attack any other demon that might come to get him (or Aziraphale).
In this scene, then, Aziraphale hears Crowley saying this: "I want holy water, so I can take care of myself in case my side comes after me." Aziraphale doesn't assume he factors into Crowley's plans at all.
Crowley, on the other hand, I believe is saying this: "I will start war with heaven and hell both, if they ever threaten either of us."
This, I now think, is why 'fraternizing' upsets Crowley. You use the word 'fraternize' to describe interactions with someone you shouldn't. It's laying clear, yet again, that Aziraphale doesn't see himself as aligned with Crowley. This explains why Crowley comes back with the biting retort that there are plenty of other people he can fraternize with -- having been confronted yet again with the fact that Aziraphale is not committed to him, Crowley puts up emotional armor.
posted by meese at 2:07 PM on June 14, 2019 [16 favorites]
Only disappointment is that they didn't use Under Pressure, which is kind of Crowley and Aziraphale's theme song?
posted by brook horse at 6:34 PM on June 14, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by brook horse at 6:34 PM on June 14, 2019 [3 favorites]
Hi I know I just posted but two minutes ago I discovered a queer friend of mine has not watched Good Omens, has not READ Good Omens, has not even HEARD of Good Omens, and I just want to say I am disappointed in each and every person in the queer community, most prominently myself, that this has been allowed to happen.
posted by brook horse at 7:00 PM on June 14, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by brook horse at 7:00 PM on June 14, 2019 [4 favorites]
Uh I don't think Christ appears in Revelations (which is where the antichrist and the 4 horse people come from). I could be wrong. Anyone?
Revelation 19:11-21
Revelation 19:11-21
11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:posted by scalefree at 12:46 AM on June 15, 2019king of kings and lord of lords.17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”
19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.
Re: Crowley's walk, two comments from Tumblr (with excellent selection of illustrative gifs):
drunk sorority girl in 10″ stilettos on her way to a starbucks at 3am trying to hail a lyft by screaming bitterly at passing cars (she’s forgotten you have to use the app)and the reply
ngl i been off tumblr since they unporned and I came back pretty much because I knew you people would have the proper appreciation for tennant walking around like his thighs recently went through a vicious divorce and have now both showed up drunk to the same red carpet eventposted by Kat Allison at 7:50 AM on June 15, 2019 [20 favorites]
I caught this on first watch but now I’ve seen it five times or so and I can confirm that Crowley is definitely channeling Lord Flashheart/Rik Mayall when he pulls up to the airbase in his flaming car, hops out, and Walks: “Hey Aziraphale I see you found a ride. Nice dress, suits you.”
posted by annathea at 1:26 PM on June 15, 2019 [10 favorites]
posted by annathea at 1:26 PM on June 15, 2019 [10 favorites]
Good Omens - Bohemian Rhapsody fanvid -- stumbled upon this one via Seanan McGuire's tumblr, A+ editing choices.
posted by oh yeah! at 2:40 PM on June 15, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by oh yeah! at 2:40 PM on June 15, 2019 [2 favorites]
That's the fourth Queen fanvid I've seen for Good Omens.
Editing was only ok during the first bits, but they nailed it once on operatic sections.
Other good fanvids include:
posted by cheshyre at 3:09 PM on June 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
Editing was only ok during the first bits, but they nailed it once on operatic sections.
Other good fanvids include:
posted by cheshyre at 3:09 PM on June 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
I, too, saw this and thought it was a fun romp down memory lane. That said, the entire watch also felt full of little disagreements and things that hit me as being just not quite right -moments that worked better on the page than in an actual film. Something I can like and am really happy is in the world, but I don't think should really win a major award.
Jon Hamm got quite deep into a career of playing unpleasant men who look nice without me fully processing it, huh? Like, I briefly thought 30 Rock was a deviation in a career that was going to be dreamboats (I was not exactly up to speed on my thinking about Mad Men) but nope, this is what he's going to do.
posted by Going To Maine at 10:54 AM on June 16, 2019 [2 favorites]
Jon Hamm got quite deep into a career of playing unpleasant men who look nice without me fully processing it, huh? Like, I briefly thought 30 Rock was a deviation in a career that was going to be dreamboats (I was not exactly up to speed on my thinking about Mad Men) but nope, this is what he's going to do.
posted by Going To Maine at 10:54 AM on June 16, 2019 [2 favorites]
When I was around Adam and his friends' age my dad was stationed in England and my best memories of the time living there are playing out in the woods just like the kids in the show, so that was a little nostalgia bomb - and then they went and filmed the airbase stuff in the climax at RAF Upper Heyford, where we were stationed! That was delightful.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:22 PM on June 16, 2019 [18 favorites]
posted by jason_steakums at 9:22 PM on June 16, 2019 [18 favorites]
There is a lovely thing going viral on social media right now.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:47 AM on June 17, 2019 [14 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:47 AM on June 17, 2019 [14 favorites]
Never read the book, but odd couples are my absolute favorite and the gifs and fanart of Aziraphale and Crowley were slaying me so I watched this over the past week.
Most immediate reaction: "A Nightingale Sang in Berkeley Square" made me tear up a bit. They had lunch at the Ritz. They switched places! (I caught the prophecy and was waiting near the whole episode to be proven right.) And honestly that part had me smiling ear to ear because the only way they could have pulled it off was if they knew each other well enough to really sell it. They are just.... so good together, y'all.
I need to go to AO3.
The dachshund also gave me life and joy and I'm really pleased nothing happened to him* (except for the one part where his owner tried to pick him up and he just somersaulted out of his hands? is that dog ok??) *or her, such a lovely baby either way
posted by lesser weasel at 5:07 AM on June 17, 2019 [5 favorites]
Most immediate reaction: "A Nightingale Sang in Berkeley Square" made me tear up a bit. They had lunch at the Ritz. They switched places! (I caught the prophecy and was waiting near the whole episode to be proven right.) And honestly that part had me smiling ear to ear because the only way they could have pulled it off was if they knew each other well enough to really sell it. They are just.... so good together, y'all.
I need to go to AO3.
The dachshund also gave me life and joy and I'm really pleased nothing happened to him* (except for the one part where his owner tried to pick him up and he just somersaulted out of his hands? is that dog ok??) *or her, such a lovely baby either way
posted by lesser weasel at 5:07 AM on June 17, 2019 [5 favorites]
Re: the overdone narration, as a person who alternately enjoyed the book and thought it was way too in love with itself, I paused the first episode after the introduction to tell my wife, "the whole book was like that, which was why I didn't love it even though my friends did." So I for one found it pretty accurate in its too-muchness. Whatever that's worth.
And on the "every tape turns into Queen" bit this did actually happen as Crowley crossed the M25 with Hastur. He puts a Mozart CD in and starts moving (ep. 5, 29:22) and within a minute it's Queen's "I'm in Love With My Car."
posted by fedward at 9:14 AM on June 17, 2019 [8 favorites]
And on the "every tape turns into Queen" bit this did actually happen as Crowley crossed the M25 with Hastur. He puts a Mozart CD in and starts moving (ep. 5, 29:22) and within a minute it's Queen's "I'm in Love With My Car."
posted by fedward at 9:14 AM on June 17, 2019 [8 favorites]
If anyone wants Good Omens fanfiction recs, hit me up, I have been bookmarking everything I read that's decent.
posted by chaiminda at 10:06 AM on June 17, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by chaiminda at 10:06 AM on June 17, 2019 [6 favorites]
Re: the overdone narration, as a person who alternately enjoyed the book and thought it was way too in love with itself, I paused the first episode after the introduction to tell my wife, "the whole book was like that, which was why I didn't love it even though my friends did." So I for one found it pretty accurate in its too-muchness. Whatever that's worth.
This was part of why I felt it was a too-loving adaptation. A raconteurish narrator is one of the things you either love or hate about Pratchett but is entirely core to the experience. It's also something that is well-nigh impossible to translate to film. It's fine to argue that show-don't-tell is an over-subscribed principle of writing, but in film it's kind of quintessential.
posted by Going To Maine at 10:12 AM on June 17, 2019
This was part of why I felt it was a too-loving adaptation. A raconteurish narrator is one of the things you either love or hate about Pratchett but is entirely core to the experience. It's also something that is well-nigh impossible to translate to film. It's fine to argue that show-don't-tell is an over-subscribed principle of writing, but in film it's kind of quintessential.
posted by Going To Maine at 10:12 AM on June 17, 2019
I mean, I felt like the narration was used more judiciously in the series than the book, but that may have been because I was sitting there hoping it wasn't all going to be as over the top as the opening. By that single measure only the opening was that bad. I think "well-nigh impossible to translate to film" is about right. If it were entirely true to the original it would have been too heavy-handed; if it weren't true enough then fans would complain about all the jokes they missed. In this thread we're getting a bit of both, so I guess the adaptation was right in the middle.
But on the third hand (not gripping; that's a different book by different authors entirely) my wife never read the book and she thought the series was really well done. She hadn't been interested at all until she saw some of the interviews Sheen and Tennant had done, and she was sold by their chemistry. The in-jokes weren't too much for her, she had a moment where she said, "oh, THAT'S why they bothered getting Miranda Richardson," and she got a particular kick out of our smart TV's accidental disclosure of who was playing Death (one of us hit the wrong button on the remote, bringing up the feature that says who all the actors are in a scene). So by the measure that it sufficiently entertained someone who had no interest in the book, with neither too little nor too much detail, it worked.
posted by fedward at 11:03 AM on June 17, 2019 [2 favorites]
But on the third hand (not gripping; that's a different book by different authors entirely) my wife never read the book and she thought the series was really well done. She hadn't been interested at all until she saw some of the interviews Sheen and Tennant had done, and she was sold by their chemistry. The in-jokes weren't too much for her, she had a moment where she said, "oh, THAT'S why they bothered getting Miranda Richardson," and she got a particular kick out of our smart TV's accidental disclosure of who was playing Death (one of us hit the wrong button on the remote, bringing up the feature that says who all the actors are in a scene). So by the measure that it sufficiently entertained someone who had no interest in the book, with neither too little nor too much detail, it worked.
posted by fedward at 11:03 AM on June 17, 2019 [2 favorites]
Sometimes, when an angel and a demon love each other very much, you find yourself charmed by and invested in that love to the point of distraction for weeks on end and compelled to write out complex analyses of that love. Sigh.
Let's talk about how Crowley and Aziraphale love each other. I'm going to talk about the triangular theory of love, which has its faults but can still be quite useful. According to the triangular theory of love, different kinds of love can be analyzed as some mixture of three components: passion, intimacy, and commitment. Let's talk about how we can see these three components in Crowley and Aziraphale's relationship.
Passion. This is a form of emotional intensity. Now, we tend to think of passion as sexual passion, but that isn't the only kind of passion. There are many ways in which you can have intense emotions with regards to another (and this is part of the reason why love and hate can be so closely connected in some cases). Think about Crowley's screams when he thinks that Aziraphale has been killed. The pain he feels in that moment points to the intensity of his emotional connection, the passion underlying his affection.
The passion Aziraphale feels for Crowley is harder to spot, for a number of different reasons. Aziraphale may, in general, be more emotionally expressive than Crowley, but he is a lot better at hiding his negative emotions. And while Aziraphale may commonly be quite expressive, with regard to positive emotions, he works very hard to hide his positive feelings towards Crowley as much as he can. There are still subtle clues, however, indicating that Aziraphale feels passionately for Crowley. It primarily comes out in unintentional facial expressions before he thinks to hide himself. Every time Crowley shows up unexpectedly, Aziraphale's great joy to see him again shines through, before he hides it. But, even more so, I believe we can see the passion Aziraphale has for Crowley whenever Aziraphale works to protect Crowley. Aziraphale reacts with true anguish at the idea of Crowley getting hurt. He worries for Crowley in ways that he doesn't worry for anyone (or thing) else. He worries that The Arrangement will be discovered by hell, because this would be bad for Crowley. He is shocked and appalled at the suggestion of holy water, because this could destroy Crowley. Despite how much Aziraphale hides and denies the intense emotions he has for Crowley, they still come out in subtle and/or unintentional ways.
(Of course, one could make the point about Aziraphale's passion just by pointing to how he says "To the world!" in the final scene. But in this analysis, I am focusing primarily on events before the apocalypse-that-wasn't.)
Intimacy. This is the component of their love that I find the most remarkable and beautiful throughout the show. Generally, intimacy is understood as a form of knowledge (or, at least, a willingness to share knowledge with one another). To be intimately connected to another is for them to know things about you, for you to know things about them, and for this to be good. Now, I tend to disagree with this account of intimacy, for Reasons(tm), but let's go with it for now.
By the very nature of The Arrangement, Aziraphale and Crowley have intimate knowledge of each other. Should anyone else ever learn about The Arrangement, they would both be in mortal danger. They are literally the only two beings that they can trust to know about it. Furthermore, given that they are the only two supernatural beings who have lived on Earth as they have, they are again thrust into a situation where each knows things about the other than no one else does or even could. By their circumstances alone, their relationship is marked by incredible intimacy.
I'm nowhere near as interested in that, though, as I am in the much more small forms of intimacy that they have. One of the greatest shows of intimacy between them, I think, is when they both decide to sober up after drinking. Clearly, the sobering up process leaves a bad taste in the mouth: both of them make rather naked disgust faces, pushing their tongues out of their mouths. It's almost childlike, how they present their disgust. Either of them could have, easily, hidden those expressions. In different company, surely they would have managed to avoid such a childlike, silly-looking expression. (Can you imagine Aziraphale sticking his tongue out like that, in front of Gabriel?) But, in each other's company, they don't. They feel no shame, no discomfort, letting themselves respond openly and childishly to the unpleasant sensation. Neither of them in any way even seems to think the other's display is unusual or noteworthy. This is just how they are: they know each other (and are comfortable being known with each other) well enough to make facial expressions like these in front of the other.
Another important clue to the level of intimacy between them comes from the oh-so-important church scene in WWII. Note Crowley's motivations: he is saving Aziraphale from embarrassment. Note how Aziraphale responds to this: he is relieved to be saved from embarrassment. Now, here's the important thing: there is no hint that Aziraphale is embarrassed by Crowley knowing about the situation! If anyone else were to know about how Aziraphale was 'had' by the Nazis, he would be embarrassed. But Crowley knows about it? That, in no way, implies embarrassment. Crowley can know about Aziraphale's failures and mistakes, and that's okay, even when it would in no way be acceptable for any other being to know about them.
There are strains on the intimacy between them, and these are equally interesting. Take the exchange:
Crowley: "Would I lie to you?"
Aziraphale: "Well, obviously. You're a demon. That's what you do."
Crowley: "No, I'm not lying."
In the first line, Crowley is making a bid for intimacy:"You know me, and you know how much I care about us. I wouldn't lie to you, and you know this." In the second line, Aziraphale is rejecting that bid for intimacy. He refuses to acknowledge the 'us' between them, and he refuses to acknowledge that he knows Crowley wouldn't lie to him. In the third line, Crowley accepts the rejection: rather than pushing the issue, trying to get Aziraphale to acknowledge the intimacy they have, he just accepts the rebuke. (The issue will come to a head later when Aziraphale says he doesn't even like Crowley, and Crowley says "You do!" That's a push for intimacy and for acknowledgment of the intimacy they have. Crowley knows Aziraphale, and he knows Aziraphale well enough to know that Aziraphale likes him. He's pushing Aziraphale to acknowledge this as well.)
The fractures in intimacy between them are, of course, closely associated with the final component to love...
Commitment. This is the most challenging component for Aziraphale and Crowley, and it's where the main source of strife between them comes up. Are they committed to one another? Crowley shows, over and over again, that he is committed to Aziraphale above and beyond anything else in existence. And he begs (more insistently as the end of the world nears) for Aziraphale to be equally committed. But Aziraphale isn't willing to. He is supposed to be committed to Heaven above all else, and he knows this. He knows that commitment to Crowley implies a rejection of Heaven (and rejecting Heaven can be very, very dangerous for an angel). And so he rejects and denies commitment to Crowley as much as he can.
There are, of course, small hints that Aziraphale is in fact committed to Crowley in many ways, and that he just won't admit it to himself. He wouldn't have entered into The Arrangement at all, if he really were committed to Heaven and if he wasn't willing to let his well-being mesh into the well-being of that demon's. And, I think, really, the reason why Aziraphale will not turn his back on Heaven for Crowley's sake is because he holds out hope in the ultimate goodness of Heaven. He forgives Crowley, and he holds out hope that Heaven is aligned with goodness well enough to someday also see Crowley as forgivable, too. He holds out hope that (someday, somehow) commitment to Crowley would not require rejection from Heaven. Aziraphale only shifts and commits to Crowley after speaking to the Metatron, and this is because that's when he is finally sees that Heaven is not worthy of his commitment and definitely doesn't deserve his commitment at Crowley's expense. That, I think, is the point at which Aziraphale fully falls into his love for Crowley.
god damnit, I really should be on Tumblr shouldn't I
posted by meese at 12:10 PM on June 19, 2019 [45 favorites]
Let's talk about how Crowley and Aziraphale love each other. I'm going to talk about the triangular theory of love, which has its faults but can still be quite useful. According to the triangular theory of love, different kinds of love can be analyzed as some mixture of three components: passion, intimacy, and commitment. Let's talk about how we can see these three components in Crowley and Aziraphale's relationship.
Passion. This is a form of emotional intensity. Now, we tend to think of passion as sexual passion, but that isn't the only kind of passion. There are many ways in which you can have intense emotions with regards to another (and this is part of the reason why love and hate can be so closely connected in some cases). Think about Crowley's screams when he thinks that Aziraphale has been killed. The pain he feels in that moment points to the intensity of his emotional connection, the passion underlying his affection.
The passion Aziraphale feels for Crowley is harder to spot, for a number of different reasons. Aziraphale may, in general, be more emotionally expressive than Crowley, but he is a lot better at hiding his negative emotions. And while Aziraphale may commonly be quite expressive, with regard to positive emotions, he works very hard to hide his positive feelings towards Crowley as much as he can. There are still subtle clues, however, indicating that Aziraphale feels passionately for Crowley. It primarily comes out in unintentional facial expressions before he thinks to hide himself. Every time Crowley shows up unexpectedly, Aziraphale's great joy to see him again shines through, before he hides it. But, even more so, I believe we can see the passion Aziraphale has for Crowley whenever Aziraphale works to protect Crowley. Aziraphale reacts with true anguish at the idea of Crowley getting hurt. He worries for Crowley in ways that he doesn't worry for anyone (or thing) else. He worries that The Arrangement will be discovered by hell, because this would be bad for Crowley. He is shocked and appalled at the suggestion of holy water, because this could destroy Crowley. Despite how much Aziraphale hides and denies the intense emotions he has for Crowley, they still come out in subtle and/or unintentional ways.
(Of course, one could make the point about Aziraphale's passion just by pointing to how he says "To the world!" in the final scene. But in this analysis, I am focusing primarily on events before the apocalypse-that-wasn't.)
Intimacy. This is the component of their love that I find the most remarkable and beautiful throughout the show. Generally, intimacy is understood as a form of knowledge (or, at least, a willingness to share knowledge with one another). To be intimately connected to another is for them to know things about you, for you to know things about them, and for this to be good. Now, I tend to disagree with this account of intimacy, for Reasons(tm), but let's go with it for now.
By the very nature of The Arrangement, Aziraphale and Crowley have intimate knowledge of each other. Should anyone else ever learn about The Arrangement, they would both be in mortal danger. They are literally the only two beings that they can trust to know about it. Furthermore, given that they are the only two supernatural beings who have lived on Earth as they have, they are again thrust into a situation where each knows things about the other than no one else does or even could. By their circumstances alone, their relationship is marked by incredible intimacy.
I'm nowhere near as interested in that, though, as I am in the much more small forms of intimacy that they have. One of the greatest shows of intimacy between them, I think, is when they both decide to sober up after drinking. Clearly, the sobering up process leaves a bad taste in the mouth: both of them make rather naked disgust faces, pushing their tongues out of their mouths. It's almost childlike, how they present their disgust. Either of them could have, easily, hidden those expressions. In different company, surely they would have managed to avoid such a childlike, silly-looking expression. (Can you imagine Aziraphale sticking his tongue out like that, in front of Gabriel?) But, in each other's company, they don't. They feel no shame, no discomfort, letting themselves respond openly and childishly to the unpleasant sensation. Neither of them in any way even seems to think the other's display is unusual or noteworthy. This is just how they are: they know each other (and are comfortable being known with each other) well enough to make facial expressions like these in front of the other.
Another important clue to the level of intimacy between them comes from the oh-so-important church scene in WWII. Note Crowley's motivations: he is saving Aziraphale from embarrassment. Note how Aziraphale responds to this: he is relieved to be saved from embarrassment. Now, here's the important thing: there is no hint that Aziraphale is embarrassed by Crowley knowing about the situation! If anyone else were to know about how Aziraphale was 'had' by the Nazis, he would be embarrassed. But Crowley knows about it? That, in no way, implies embarrassment. Crowley can know about Aziraphale's failures and mistakes, and that's okay, even when it would in no way be acceptable for any other being to know about them.
There are strains on the intimacy between them, and these are equally interesting. Take the exchange:
Crowley: "Would I lie to you?"
Aziraphale: "Well, obviously. You're a demon. That's what you do."
Crowley: "No, I'm not lying."
In the first line, Crowley is making a bid for intimacy:"You know me, and you know how much I care about us. I wouldn't lie to you, and you know this." In the second line, Aziraphale is rejecting that bid for intimacy. He refuses to acknowledge the 'us' between them, and he refuses to acknowledge that he knows Crowley wouldn't lie to him. In the third line, Crowley accepts the rejection: rather than pushing the issue, trying to get Aziraphale to acknowledge the intimacy they have, he just accepts the rebuke. (The issue will come to a head later when Aziraphale says he doesn't even like Crowley, and Crowley says "You do!" That's a push for intimacy and for acknowledgment of the intimacy they have. Crowley knows Aziraphale, and he knows Aziraphale well enough to know that Aziraphale likes him. He's pushing Aziraphale to acknowledge this as well.)
The fractures in intimacy between them are, of course, closely associated with the final component to love...
Commitment. This is the most challenging component for Aziraphale and Crowley, and it's where the main source of strife between them comes up. Are they committed to one another? Crowley shows, over and over again, that he is committed to Aziraphale above and beyond anything else in existence. And he begs (more insistently as the end of the world nears) for Aziraphale to be equally committed. But Aziraphale isn't willing to. He is supposed to be committed to Heaven above all else, and he knows this. He knows that commitment to Crowley implies a rejection of Heaven (and rejecting Heaven can be very, very dangerous for an angel). And so he rejects and denies commitment to Crowley as much as he can.
There are, of course, small hints that Aziraphale is in fact committed to Crowley in many ways, and that he just won't admit it to himself. He wouldn't have entered into The Arrangement at all, if he really were committed to Heaven and if he wasn't willing to let his well-being mesh into the well-being of that demon's. And, I think, really, the reason why Aziraphale will not turn his back on Heaven for Crowley's sake is because he holds out hope in the ultimate goodness of Heaven. He forgives Crowley, and he holds out hope that Heaven is aligned with goodness well enough to someday also see Crowley as forgivable, too. He holds out hope that (someday, somehow) commitment to Crowley would not require rejection from Heaven. Aziraphale only shifts and commits to Crowley after speaking to the Metatron, and this is because that's when he is finally sees that Heaven is not worthy of his commitment and definitely doesn't deserve his commitment at Crowley's expense. That, I think, is the point at which Aziraphale fully falls into his love for Crowley.
god damnit, I really should be on Tumblr shouldn't I
posted by meese at 12:10 PM on June 19, 2019 [45 favorites]
US Christian group petitions Netflix to cancel Amazon Prime's Good Omens.
Over 20,000 people signed a petition condemning Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett’s story as ‘making satanism appear normal’ – but petitioned the wrong company.
posted by still_wears_a_hat at 5:18 AM on June 20, 2019 [7 favorites]
Over 20,000 people signed a petition condemning Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett’s story as ‘making satanism appear normal’ – but petitioned the wrong company.
posted by still_wears_a_hat at 5:18 AM on June 20, 2019 [7 favorites]
meese, that was wonderful. Also I’m 100% on board this ship with you. (With Michael Sheen himself as our captain, by the way. He’s not in the least shy about stating in various interviews that he played Aziraphale in love with Crowley and trying desperately to hide it.)
And yes — Aziraphale is so duty-bound, up until the very end, that he feels like he can’t commit to Crowley.
Tumblr and AO3 generally believe that the line “You go too fast for me, Crowley” was about moving too fast relationship-wise. I think that’s only true in the sense that Aziraphale has just committed himself to Crowley by breaking the rules to give him holy water, but is still frightened to be any more open about it, because what if he’s found out? That’s what he means by “going too fast.”
If the church in 1941 is where Aziraphale realizes he loves Crowley, then I think the Bentley in the 1960s is where Crowley realizes Aziraphale loves him. I rewatched the cold open to Episode 3 last night, and in that scene, Tennant totally drops Crowley’s arch, swaggering body language and tone, for probably the only time. Crowley is stunned and touched at this tiny piece of rebellion, committed all for him. So much so that he can’t even make a smart remark.
But Aziraphale still can’t break out of his sense of duty until the very, very end.
Dammit, I need for them to live happily ever after as ineffable husbands for all eternity.
posted by snowmentality at 5:40 AM on June 20, 2019 [6 favorites]
And yes — Aziraphale is so duty-bound, up until the very end, that he feels like he can’t commit to Crowley.
Tumblr and AO3 generally believe that the line “You go too fast for me, Crowley” was about moving too fast relationship-wise. I think that’s only true in the sense that Aziraphale has just committed himself to Crowley by breaking the rules to give him holy water, but is still frightened to be any more open about it, because what if he’s found out? That’s what he means by “going too fast.”
If the church in 1941 is where Aziraphale realizes he loves Crowley, then I think the Bentley in the 1960s is where Crowley realizes Aziraphale loves him. I rewatched the cold open to Episode 3 last night, and in that scene, Tennant totally drops Crowley’s arch, swaggering body language and tone, for probably the only time. Crowley is stunned and touched at this tiny piece of rebellion, committed all for him. So much so that he can’t even make a smart remark.
But Aziraphale still can’t break out of his sense of duty until the very, very end.
Dammit, I need for them to live happily ever after as ineffable husbands for all eternity.
posted by snowmentality at 5:40 AM on June 20, 2019 [6 favorites]
snowmentality: Dammit, I need for them to live happily ever after as ineffable husbands for all eternity.
You're in luck; years ago, Neil Gaiman answered the question "Where do you think Crowley and Aziraphale are now" with "sharing a cottage in the South (Sussex) Downs."
So, whether you hold with Word of God or Death of the Author, you get your happy ending either way.
posted by tzikeh at 7:21 AM on June 20, 2019 [10 favorites]
You're in luck; years ago, Neil Gaiman answered the question "Where do you think Crowley and Aziraphale are now" with "sharing a cottage in the South (Sussex) Downs."
So, whether you hold with Word of God or Death of the Author, you get your happy ending either way.
posted by tzikeh at 7:21 AM on June 20, 2019 [10 favorites]
tzikeh, thank you! I had been trying to figure out why so many fics had them ending up there. This makes me so happy!
The Bohemian Rhapsody fanvid linked above was created by Alexandra Rowland, who wrote that wonderful essay last year about hopepunk.
(Anyone with fic recs feel free to send them my way, I am SO enjoying this fandom right now. )
posted by beandip at 8:20 AM on June 20, 2019
The Bohemian Rhapsody fanvid linked above was created by Alexandra Rowland, who wrote that wonderful essay last year about hopepunk.
(Anyone with fic recs feel free to send them my way, I am SO enjoying this fandom right now. )
posted by beandip at 8:20 AM on June 20, 2019
Over 20,000 people signed a petition condemning Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett’s story as ‘making satanism appear normal’ – but petitioned the wrong company.
But, like... if you're Christian, surely the existence of Satan and demons is normal? They are fallen angels, they're trying to corrupt mankind... that's normal behavior for them and consistent with the theology.
That's a segue, since part of the initial appeal the book had for me (I no doubt came across it at a mall bookstore as a kid looking for Douglas Adams-adjacent works of sci-fi/fantasy) was that it mocked Christianity. As a kid from an areligious family who got endless amounts of shit for not being Christian, I bought it and was ready to be entertained.
Ended up not liking it very much. But I've re-read it periodically over the years, since people I like love it, and I always look forward to another adaptation of it—the 2015 BBC radio drama, this mini-series—because the book is so close to being great but doesn't quite get there. Feels like an adaptation could really nail it.
This didn't get there. Like the book, it has its own lovely high points (Aziraphale and Crowley, fun set design - Hell as a truly dire office job was classic) and lots of weird self-sabotage (What was Frances McDormand going for here? Whatever it was, it did not work. Why was the narrative arc of the Them ignored, like, completely?) But it seems beside the point to really go on about it... I've come to have an affection for this flawed work as a flawed work, and hope it gets remade again and again like Robin Hood. I'll probably watch it again this weekend.
posted by lefty lucky cat at 8:44 PM on June 20, 2019 [2 favorites]
But, like... if you're Christian, surely the existence of Satan and demons is normal? They are fallen angels, they're trying to corrupt mankind... that's normal behavior for them and consistent with the theology.
That's a segue, since part of the initial appeal the book had for me (I no doubt came across it at a mall bookstore as a kid looking for Douglas Adams-adjacent works of sci-fi/fantasy) was that it mocked Christianity. As a kid from an areligious family who got endless amounts of shit for not being Christian, I bought it and was ready to be entertained.
Ended up not liking it very much. But I've re-read it periodically over the years, since people I like love it, and I always look forward to another adaptation of it—the 2015 BBC radio drama, this mini-series—because the book is so close to being great but doesn't quite get there. Feels like an adaptation could really nail it.
This didn't get there. Like the book, it has its own lovely high points (Aziraphale and Crowley, fun set design - Hell as a truly dire office job was classic) and lots of weird self-sabotage (What was Frances McDormand going for here? Whatever it was, it did not work. Why was the narrative arc of the Them ignored, like, completely?) But it seems beside the point to really go on about it... I've come to have an affection for this flawed work as a flawed work, and hope it gets remade again and again like Robin Hood. I'll probably watch it again this weekend.
posted by lefty lucky cat at 8:44 PM on June 20, 2019 [2 favorites]
But, like... if you're Christian, surely the existence of Satan and demons is normal? They are fallen angels, they're trying to corrupt mankind... that's normal behavior for them and consistent with the theology.
I think in this case the complaint that in "making satanism appear normal" they are using "normal" to mean "acceptable". You can believe Satan and demons exist as a Christian....but you're not supposed to like them.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:10 AM on June 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
I think in this case the complaint that in "making satanism appear normal" they are using "normal" to mean "acceptable". You can believe Satan and demons exist as a Christian....but you're not supposed to like them.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:10 AM on June 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
I dunno, any demon trying to tempt mankind into sin should be likable. If you look like Beelzebub nobody is going to do anything when you turn up except flee in terror. Well, I mean not this miniseries' Beelzebub, she is cute and charming, save the flies.
posted by lefty lucky cat at 8:37 AM on June 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by lefty lucky cat at 8:37 AM on June 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
Well, yeah, but the prim and proper Christians would prefer that such a film showed that the likeable demons eventually get their comeuppance. They would likely have preferred that Aziraphale ultimately told Crowley to go fuck off and then Crowley get punished by Beelzebub or Satan.
(If you think that's fussy, in the Middle Ages the people who played Satan in the church pageant plays had a special prayer of forgiveness they would always recite backstage before they went on, so God would forgive them for even playing the part.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:19 AM on June 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
(If you think that's fussy, in the Middle Ages the people who played Satan in the church pageant plays had a special prayer of forgiveness they would always recite backstage before they went on, so God would forgive them for even playing the part.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:19 AM on June 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
I mean, I think there's a pretty successful read of the series that means people inclined towards organized religion maybe shouldn't like it too much. In many ways, the Big Bad of the series is self-satisfied organizations. Of course, that's not the reasoning you see in any of the Christian complaints against it.
posted by meese at 10:24 AM on June 21, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by meese at 10:24 AM on June 21, 2019 [4 favorites]
My smallest just called me with great delight to announce she was the Antichrist, then clarified this was on a BuzzFeed quiz from Good Omens. She used her pocket money to buy me a copy of the book to read when my tv blocking software is on so that I will have something to keep me happy while she's away. I didn't tell her I already had multiple copies of Good Omens but thanked her solemnly and now have to go find out if I am Azriphale, or God forbid, Newt.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 10:08 PM on June 24, 2019 [8 favorites]
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 10:08 PM on June 24, 2019 [8 favorites]
Zimbio not BuzzFeed and damnit I ended up with Gabriel this is because I am weeding my bookshelves I just know it.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 10:21 PM on June 24, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 10:21 PM on June 24, 2019 [3 favorites]
I just finished watching the whole thing, after managing to keep it to only two episodes a day, and I'm so happy this exists, and so sad I finished it, and so happy because it just...made me happy. I want to listen to A Nightingale Sang in Berkeley Square for hours at a time while I read ineffable husband fics and whisper 'Crowley, you go too fast for me' and fall rather more in love with Michael Sheen than I already was.
I've read the book a few times, but it never really grabbed me; something about this adaptation did, though. I am so happy.
(Also, thank you for posting that quiz dorothyisunderwood, I got Aziraphale which a)accurate and b)has made my whole night nay my whole WEEK guys I really, really love Aziraphale.)
posted by kalimac at 10:31 PM on June 24, 2019 [8 favorites]
I've read the book a few times, but it never really grabbed me; something about this adaptation did, though. I am so happy.
(Also, thank you for posting that quiz dorothyisunderwood, I got Aziraphale which a)accurate and b)has made my whole night nay my whole WEEK guys I really, really love Aziraphale.)
posted by kalimac at 10:31 PM on June 24, 2019 [8 favorites]
If you can successfully operate a computer for long enough to take the quiz, you're not Newt.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:17 AM on June 25, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:17 AM on June 25, 2019 [7 favorites]
I got Adam Young. I'm disappointed.
posted by meese at 3:43 PM on June 25, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by meese at 3:43 PM on June 25, 2019 [3 favorites]
I got Crowley, and I didn't even lie on anything. 🕶
posted by fedward at 4:57 PM on June 25, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by fedward at 4:57 PM on June 25, 2019 [6 favorites]
I was just browsing the bookstore today and came home with a copy of The Nice and Accurate Good Omens TV Companion. There are many cast and set photos therein!
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 9:07 PM on June 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 9:07 PM on June 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
I got Adam Young. That is SO wrong.
posted by miss-lapin at 12:16 AM on June 26, 2019
posted by miss-lapin at 12:16 AM on June 26, 2019
It would seem I am a Crowley. Didn't expect that.
posted by lefty lucky cat at 7:54 AM on June 26, 2019
posted by lefty lucky cat at 7:54 AM on June 26, 2019
I got Crowley. Since demons are technically genderless, I'll allow it.
posted by Tabitha Someday at 11:15 AM on June 26, 2019
posted by Tabitha Someday at 11:15 AM on June 26, 2019
So, this theory going around the internet, about Crowley once having been the Archangel Raphael, is fascinating, and I had a lot of thoughts about it, and somehow it came out as fanfiction.
oh god what has happen to me
posted by meese at 2:14 PM on June 26, 2019 [19 favorites]
oh god what has happen to me
posted by meese at 2:14 PM on June 26, 2019 [19 favorites]
Well thanks for the heart stomp!
(I mostly kid, it was a lovely fic meese, and that theory is both wonderful and cry-inducing)
posted by lesser weasel at 7:50 PM on June 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
(I mostly kid, it was a lovely fic meese, and that theory is both wonderful and cry-inducing)
posted by lesser weasel at 7:50 PM on June 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
Cold watcher here, never read the books despite having read this and that by Pratchett in the past. I loved the show. It seems more successful to me than the adaptation of American Gods and even managed to hold onto (I presume, perhaps they were introduced at scripting) some very funny and erudite theological jokes. Well done! Looking forward to more.
posted by mwhybark at 10:09 PM on June 27, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by mwhybark at 10:09 PM on June 27, 2019 [3 favorites]
Meese-I just finished your fanfic and it was just so lovely. Thank you.
posted by miss-lapin at 3:20 AM on June 28, 2019
posted by miss-lapin at 3:20 AM on June 28, 2019
I adored Tennant but also posit that Bill Nighy would have been acceptable...?
I spent episode 1 saying, “Are you SURE that’s not Bill Nighy??” to Mr. Freedom.
I saw this first, then purchased the book, and I’m a little bummed at how exact it is - I was hoping for more from the book!
posted by chainsofreedom at 3:20 PM on June 29, 2019 [1 favorite]
We got through this last night. The first episode didn't grab me. I'd read the book 20 years ago or whatever, so I knew the basics, I thought. I should probably say right now that I am not a Neil Gaiman fan. I could elaborate why, but suffice that my reasons are myriad as they are pointless to a Gaiman fan. He's not my cup of tea and I'm perplexed as to why the people's tea he is can't see the mold in the cup or taste it through all the treacle.
The second, third and fourth episodes are good. That fifth though. I had to convince my wife to watch the last one after that. I'm a big Queen fan, but I really hated how they used so many of their songs so horribly.
And those title cards! Why did they do that effect throughout?
posted by Catblack at 7:26 AM on July 3, 2019 [1 favorite]
The second, third and fourth episodes are good. That fifth though. I had to convince my wife to watch the last one after that. I'm a big Queen fan, but I really hated how they used so many of their songs so horribly.
And those title cards! Why did they do that effect throughout?
posted by Catblack at 7:26 AM on July 3, 2019 [1 favorite]
I'm someone who never read the book, or any Pratchett beyond the first few chapters, largely because his work was foamily and unrelentingly recommended to me by the people in my extended circle who were most predisposed to announce themselves as being Mensa members, drop into dreadful American renditions of a British accent with a frequency beyond what could be considered delightfully eccentric, or to speak a cryptic in-joke language punctuated by incessant quotes from Monty Python in an ad hoc version of aversion therapy seemingly designed to cure me of all the nerdish impulses and Anglophilia of my youth.
I'm also not a big fan of fantasy and I'm finding myself increasingly bored with clever post-postmodern takes on the absurdity of religion, which just seems like a road too often taken, so I was my puss was redolent of skepticism when my gentleman caller suggested we climb into the narrative.
Nonetheless, I enjoyed it tremendously. It didn't feel overlong or rushed, I found the principal characters compelling in a story that carried me along and felt satisfying in the end. I was a little shruggy about McKean, though I applauded his divergence from his usual range of characters, and I'm beginning to wonder if Hamm is just going to be one of those actors who just plays a flavor of his usual Hamm in every single role, though I appreciated that they at least had him jog in sweat pants. I didn't know anything about the casting beyond the obvious leads, and Jack Whitehall was playing far enough off his usual axis (and clean-shaven) that I had to look up why Pulsifer seemed evocative of someone I couldn't quite put a finger on. Miranda Richardson, as well, inhabited her character in that way that Miriam Margolyes does, on a nearly atomic level.
It was fun and, thanks to being based on a single and apparently fantastic book (I suppose I'll need to get past my previous aversion and give it a fair read now), will be unlikely to metastasize into the repellent scourge of modern storytelling—the franchise—so it'll be pleasant to revisit until someone needs to reboot it in some ridiculous rehash in about twenty years.
And the Hellhound makes me smile.
posted by sonascope at 2:43 PM on July 3, 2019 [5 favorites]
I'm also not a big fan of fantasy and I'm finding myself increasingly bored with clever post-postmodern takes on the absurdity of religion, which just seems like a road too often taken, so I was my puss was redolent of skepticism when my gentleman caller suggested we climb into the narrative.
Nonetheless, I enjoyed it tremendously. It didn't feel overlong or rushed, I found the principal characters compelling in a story that carried me along and felt satisfying in the end. I was a little shruggy about McKean, though I applauded his divergence from his usual range of characters, and I'm beginning to wonder if Hamm is just going to be one of those actors who just plays a flavor of his usual Hamm in every single role, though I appreciated that they at least had him jog in sweat pants. I didn't know anything about the casting beyond the obvious leads, and Jack Whitehall was playing far enough off his usual axis (and clean-shaven) that I had to look up why Pulsifer seemed evocative of someone I couldn't quite put a finger on. Miranda Richardson, as well, inhabited her character in that way that Miriam Margolyes does, on a nearly atomic level.
It was fun and, thanks to being based on a single and apparently fantastic book (I suppose I'll need to get past my previous aversion and give it a fair read now), will be unlikely to metastasize into the repellent scourge of modern storytelling—the franchise—so it'll be pleasant to revisit until someone needs to reboot it in some ridiculous rehash in about twenty years.
And the Hellhound makes me smile.
posted by sonascope at 2:43 PM on July 3, 2019 [5 favorites]
a flavor of his usual Hamm
Hamming it up, if you will...
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 3:36 AM on July 4, 2019 [3 favorites]
Hamming it up, if you will...
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 3:36 AM on July 4, 2019 [3 favorites]
I loved this because I loved Aziraphale and Crowley. Tennant and Sheen were lovely together. I haven't read the book (and I probably won't), but I will watch this again.
posted by Julnyes at 3:11 PM on July 8, 2019
posted by Julnyes at 3:11 PM on July 8, 2019
OK it just hit me who might have done a better Shadwell-Jim Broadbent. He seems like he could pull off blustery but still endearing.
Also it took me forever to recognize War. I kept thinking she looked so familiar and I couldn't place her!
posted by miss-lapin at 7:28 AM on July 9, 2019 [2 favorites]
Also it took me forever to recognize War. I kept thinking she looked so familiar and I couldn't place her!
posted by miss-lapin at 7:28 AM on July 9, 2019 [2 favorites]
I could watch slinky David Tennant channel vampire Billy Nighy from "Underworld" all day.
Yes exactly this - some of those points have got to be deliberate Nighy impressions.
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:32 PM on July 18, 2019
Yes exactly this - some of those points have got to be deliberate Nighy impressions.
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:32 PM on July 18, 2019
I needed yet more Good Omens so I listened to the BBC Radio drama. The voice actor for Shadwell was excellent. Also Peter Serafinowicz (Crowley) was able to do an excellent impression of Mark Heap (Aziraphale) which added some comedy.
posted by chaiminda at 8:13 AM on July 20, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by chaiminda at 8:13 AM on July 20, 2019 [2 favorites]
OMG I LOVE Peter Serafinowicz-I think my favorite appearance is his episode of Black Books.
posted by miss-lapin at 4:20 PM on July 20, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by miss-lapin at 4:20 PM on July 20, 2019 [2 favorites]
Mark Heap (Aziraphale)
Welp, I know what I'm immediately going to start listening to oh my GOD that is the MOST PERFECT casting EVER.
posted by kalimac at 5:20 PM on July 20, 2019 [1 favorite]
Welp, I know what I'm immediately going to start listening to oh my GOD that is the MOST PERFECT casting EVER.
posted by kalimac at 5:20 PM on July 20, 2019 [1 favorite]
I thought the whole thing was really well done! There was no narrator, so any narration that was absolutely needed was given to the characters themselves. It worked great in the case of the Chattering Nuns and pretty well elsewhere.
(Aaah I didn't know he was in Black Books! I know him best from Spaced, where he--fittingly--is involved in a life-or-death paintball match.)
posted by chaiminda at 5:37 PM on July 20, 2019 [1 favorite]
(Aaah I didn't know he was in Black Books! I know him best from Spaced, where he--fittingly--is involved in a life-or-death paintball match.)
posted by chaiminda at 5:37 PM on July 20, 2019 [1 favorite]
(Speaking of Serafinowicz, It's a crying shame that Look Around You is so difficult to come by in the US. There are like two people I know of who get my MEDI-BOT references from season 2.)
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 6:55 PM on July 20, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 6:55 PM on July 20, 2019 [3 favorites]
Oh, meese, that was really just so great. The idea and the execution. Thank you so much for sharing.
posted by BlueBlueElectricBlue at 11:13 PM on July 21, 2019
posted by BlueBlueElectricBlue at 11:13 PM on July 21, 2019
I have only just now managed to finish this, having been traveling when it was airing and then having been threatened with disemboweling if I spoiled it by talking or looking too smug or otherwise allowed them to predict anything, so--we've been watching episode by episode this week. And we finally finished, having watched in tow with the whole house; I'd been trying to get both roommates to read the novels for years, I'm on my fourth and fifth copies of Good Omens and I have them for the lending, but no one took me up on it, and now they will because they're in love with it, too.
and oh, oh, oh, the changes were such good changes, and oh, I am so content and so pleased, and the story is so much more applicable to the present than it was when I first read it in 2004 or so, and--it was one of my first real fandoms and many of the same people are still around, and I have this community to return to and be part of again--
I am gently chiming like a tuning fork that has received a sharp tap, and my critical brain can come online tomorrow. Tonight I am vibrating with pure delighted joy, and I am well pleased.
posted by sciatrix at 8:07 PM on July 24, 2019 [13 favorites]
and oh, oh, oh, the changes were such good changes, and oh, I am so content and so pleased, and the story is so much more applicable to the present than it was when I first read it in 2004 or so, and--it was one of my first real fandoms and many of the same people are still around, and I have this community to return to and be part of again--
I am gently chiming like a tuning fork that has received a sharp tap, and my critical brain can come online tomorrow. Tonight I am vibrating with pure delighted joy, and I am well pleased.
posted by sciatrix at 8:07 PM on July 24, 2019 [13 favorites]
Also: the Hellhound, before being named, was so clearly a mantle Great Dane that both my partner and I were giggling about it the whole time. We could see the edges of the flews and where those had been turned into teeth with CGI. It was hilarious, and it must have been so inexpensive--all you have to really do is photoshop all of the frames of the Dane--and it came off so well even if you knew damn well how it had been done.
also the quiz made me Crowley and that seems completely wrong, I'm not remotely flash enough
posted by sciatrix at 8:19 AM on July 25, 2019
also the quiz made me Crowley and that seems completely wrong, I'm not remotely flash enough
posted by sciatrix at 8:19 AM on July 25, 2019
I am gently chiming like a tuning fork that has received a sharp tap
Oh, this is beautiful. And also, yes. The show has just wrapped me up in itself. I love it. I want to make art, I'm writing fanfic as fast as I can find the time, and just subsume myself in how joyful and fun and funny and lovely it all is.
posted by kalimac at 1:11 PM on July 26, 2019 [4 favorites]
Oh, this is beautiful. And also, yes. The show has just wrapped me up in itself. I love it. I want to make art, I'm writing fanfic as fast as I can find the time, and just subsume myself in how joyful and fun and funny and lovely it all is.
posted by kalimac at 1:11 PM on July 26, 2019 [4 favorites]
Yes! And the themes people are touching on - - the unbearable indignity of being seen and known; all the sorenesses of once having been, in a very defined way, someone else who doesn't exist now; choices about what to stand up for and what to fall for; the loneliness of being outside the lived experience of most of the people you might interact with contrasted against the warmth of shared companionship and understanding; metaphysics and poetry and history and comedy and art.
Engaging with the fandom has been something like easing into a ripping hot bath: overwhelmed with breathtaking tension and almost a little pain at first, and slowly relaxing and relaxing and relaxing into a boneless puddle of contentment. I was most actively reading it last c. 2009 or so, and it's been an adjustment sinking into the things that have changed in the meantime. Those things have changed both in fandom but also in me: Good Omens was really one of the big places where I learned what queerness was and found people to sit at the knee of and listen. I'm older than I was then, and I've changed, too, and the things I see to criticize land differently than they once would have.
I'm just - - I'm suffused with a rather ineffable joy, and much too shy to try a hand at spinning some of it out into words myself instead. Perhaps later. But I'm so glad to be able to take the skeins of yarn that others have spun and press them against my skin, marveling in their lush colors and fine texture, thinking about what has been and yet could be.
Also, my partner is writing sickfic and all my fannish friends are writing their own stories and! There! Is! so! much! joy!
posted by sciatrix at 7:29 AM on July 27, 2019 [2 favorites]
Engaging with the fandom has been something like easing into a ripping hot bath: overwhelmed with breathtaking tension and almost a little pain at first, and slowly relaxing and relaxing and relaxing into a boneless puddle of contentment. I was most actively reading it last c. 2009 or so, and it's been an adjustment sinking into the things that have changed in the meantime. Those things have changed both in fandom but also in me: Good Omens was really one of the big places where I learned what queerness was and found people to sit at the knee of and listen. I'm older than I was then, and I've changed, too, and the things I see to criticize land differently than they once would have.
I'm just - - I'm suffused with a rather ineffable joy, and much too shy to try a hand at spinning some of it out into words myself instead. Perhaps later. But I'm so glad to be able to take the skeins of yarn that others have spun and press them against my skin, marveling in their lush colors and fine texture, thinking about what has been and yet could be.
Also, my partner is writing sickfic and all my fannish friends are writing their own stories and! There! Is! so! much! joy!
posted by sciatrix at 7:29 AM on July 27, 2019 [2 favorites]
Engaging with the fandom has been something like easing into a ripping hot bath: overwhelmed with breathtaking tension and almost a little pain at first, and slowly relaxing and relaxing and relaxing into a boneless puddle of contentment.
Exactly. It's been a little painful for reasons I didn't expect, having to do with trying to emigrate to Wales a few years ago and being unable to, and now being surrounded by Britishness again, and all the homesickness/hiraeth that brings. But it feels like I've come home, and like I have new stories to tell, and all the things you wrote about are just bubbling up so wonderfully in my brain. And over it, this incredible glow of love. Neil wrote the story because he loved and missed and mourned Terry so much. Michael Sheen's been a fan since the book came out and is clearly in love with fandom just as much as the rest of us are. David Tennant knows from bringing something people are deeply invested in to life, and he brought care and respect and just Crowley-ness to the role like no one else could've. Everyone involved loved this story so much, and it shows, and I'm so excited for all the fics and the art and the embroidery piece I want to do and and and --
It's in such contrast to the Marvel fandom I've almost-but-not-quite gafiated from that I went and wrote a meta about feeling welcomed by creators, and how it shouldn't matter but it turns out that it does.
posted by kalimac at 8:59 AM on July 27, 2019 [4 favorites]
Exactly. It's been a little painful for reasons I didn't expect, having to do with trying to emigrate to Wales a few years ago and being unable to, and now being surrounded by Britishness again, and all the homesickness/hiraeth that brings. But it feels like I've come home, and like I have new stories to tell, and all the things you wrote about are just bubbling up so wonderfully in my brain. And over it, this incredible glow of love. Neil wrote the story because he loved and missed and mourned Terry so much. Michael Sheen's been a fan since the book came out and is clearly in love with fandom just as much as the rest of us are. David Tennant knows from bringing something people are deeply invested in to life, and he brought care and respect and just Crowley-ness to the role like no one else could've. Everyone involved loved this story so much, and it shows, and I'm so excited for all the fics and the art and the embroidery piece I want to do and and and --
It's in such contrast to the Marvel fandom I've almost-but-not-quite gafiated from that I went and wrote a meta about feeling welcomed by creators, and how it shouldn't matter but it turns out that it does.
posted by kalimac at 8:59 AM on July 27, 2019 [4 favorites]
Oh my goodness, yes! There's no focus on tricking the watcher or even necessarily surprising a watcher who has read the book - - even the slight difference in the ending, in the form of A&C's famous switcheroo, is quite possible to see coming well ahead of time. (I had been partially spoiled and worked the rest of it out instantly from the moment of Agnes' last prophecy; my partner, who usually works these things out immediately from the least foreshadowing, worked it out before the reveal.)
The contrast with the MCU, where Endgame and wrongfooting the audience have been paramount of late, was honestly very refreshing. (I won't even mention the fury and frustration I've seen from friends following The Magicians and Game of Thrones, whose creators help coming out and framing themselves antagonistically against their audiences, as if the listener is an adversary to be tricked.) The goal felt like it was, well, to tell a story, not to startle and shake up an audience; to create a conclusion that settled nicely into the bones, not necessarily one that left you feeling unbalanced and confused and uncertain.
And I mean, there are changes I noted and didn't like, for example the dove Aziraphale accidentally kills when he's being a magician; in the book, Crowley automatically brings it back to life while they discuss what to do next, and I believe miniseries!Aziraphale simply drops it. Or there's a more of a sense of fear coming out of Aziraphale all the way through than there is in the book, and I miss the sense of Aziraphale's blithe confidence contrasted against Crowley's nervier fear of consequences - - but these are minor things, and as with all canons I am perfectly happy to ignore them if I feel like it.
There is a sense of respect for the audience and respect for joy and delight in the finished product that I love so much, while at the same time being confident enough to - - yes! Make changes, even significant and substantial changes to the text of the adaptation. Many of these are wonderful, like the change in the identity of Madame Tracy's spirit guide, or the racebends and genderbends in the casting. I have the beginnings of a thought lining up about the contrast and comparisons of both Aziraphale and Crowley's gender presentations across time, and how both "fluid and changing according to, apparently, Crowley's own whims" and "consistently and comfortably male-but-not-masculine" appear next to each other as comfortable counterparts and friends. I liked that aspect very much, also, and need to spend some time spinning it out and elucidating it.
posted by sciatrix at 10:49 AM on July 27, 2019 [3 favorites]
The contrast with the MCU, where Endgame and wrongfooting the audience have been paramount of late, was honestly very refreshing. (I won't even mention the fury and frustration I've seen from friends following The Magicians and Game of Thrones, whose creators help coming out and framing themselves antagonistically against their audiences, as if the listener is an adversary to be tricked.) The goal felt like it was, well, to tell a story, not to startle and shake up an audience; to create a conclusion that settled nicely into the bones, not necessarily one that left you feeling unbalanced and confused and uncertain.
And I mean, there are changes I noted and didn't like, for example the dove Aziraphale accidentally kills when he's being a magician; in the book, Crowley automatically brings it back to life while they discuss what to do next, and I believe miniseries!Aziraphale simply drops it. Or there's a more of a sense of fear coming out of Aziraphale all the way through than there is in the book, and I miss the sense of Aziraphale's blithe confidence contrasted against Crowley's nervier fear of consequences - - but these are minor things, and as with all canons I am perfectly happy to ignore them if I feel like it.
There is a sense of respect for the audience and respect for joy and delight in the finished product that I love so much, while at the same time being confident enough to - - yes! Make changes, even significant and substantial changes to the text of the adaptation. Many of these are wonderful, like the change in the identity of Madame Tracy's spirit guide, or the racebends and genderbends in the casting. I have the beginnings of a thought lining up about the contrast and comparisons of both Aziraphale and Crowley's gender presentations across time, and how both "fluid and changing according to, apparently, Crowley's own whims" and "consistently and comfortably male-but-not-masculine" appear next to each other as comfortable counterparts and friends. I liked that aspect very much, also, and need to spend some time spinning it out and elucidating it.
posted by sciatrix at 10:49 AM on July 27, 2019 [3 favorites]
miniseries!Aziraphale simply drops it
no! He brings it back too life and it flies off! just like in the book. I am a bit of a bird nut and hate that dead birds are a bit of a shortcut to pathos in so many movies, I was very relieved that the bird lived here!
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 10:45 PM on July 27, 2019 [8 favorites]
no! He brings it back too life and it flies off! just like in the book. I am a bit of a bird nut and hate that dead birds are a bit of a shortcut to pathos in so many movies, I was very relieved that the bird lived here!
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 10:45 PM on July 27, 2019 [8 favorites]
So late to the conversation. Waited around a bit in the hopes I could watch this with my partner, but we're re-watching one series with her kids, another together, and ... there's just a huge glut of things to watch. So I finally dug in on my own and sped through it in a few days.
I don't think anyone else has mentioned this, but I felt like the beginning of Good Omens was very reminiscent of the beginning of the BBC TV adaptation of The Hitchhiker's Guide.
I did enjoy it mightily. I think "Them" should have had more screen time and build up, but I can understand why they were put on the back burner. Still, the casting of Adam was really good IMO and I think the series would have had a little more punch and poignancy had we spent more time with him. I thoroughly enjoyed the introduction of Dog.
Most of the other thoughts I had about the series have already been voiced, so suffice it to say despite the flaws I'm quite happy with it. Ultimately it hit the notes I hoped it would hit, and I was deeply pleased at the connection between Aziraphale and Crowely. Will definitely watch again when I can arrange it with my partner, and her kids if I can persuade them to give it a try.
It was not my favorite of Gaiman’s. I always thought there was too much of Pratchett in there, and I didn’t care for his work the way I loved Gaiman’s.
Conversely, while I enjoy both, I find as I get older I'm fonder of Pratchett than Gaiman. There's a terrible shortage of Pratchett these days.
posted by jzb at 4:57 AM on July 31, 2019 [4 favorites]
I don't think anyone else has mentioned this, but I felt like the beginning of Good Omens was very reminiscent of the beginning of the BBC TV adaptation of The Hitchhiker's Guide.
I did enjoy it mightily. I think "Them" should have had more screen time and build up, but I can understand why they were put on the back burner. Still, the casting of Adam was really good IMO and I think the series would have had a little more punch and poignancy had we spent more time with him. I thoroughly enjoyed the introduction of Dog.
Most of the other thoughts I had about the series have already been voiced, so suffice it to say despite the flaws I'm quite happy with it. Ultimately it hit the notes I hoped it would hit, and I was deeply pleased at the connection between Aziraphale and Crowely. Will definitely watch again when I can arrange it with my partner, and her kids if I can persuade them to give it a try.
It was not my favorite of Gaiman’s. I always thought there was too much of Pratchett in there, and I didn’t care for his work the way I loved Gaiman’s.
Conversely, while I enjoy both, I find as I get older I'm fonder of Pratchett than Gaiman. There's a terrible shortage of Pratchett these days.
posted by jzb at 4:57 AM on July 31, 2019 [4 favorites]
Looks like Gaiman may be changing his tune on continuing the story: In response to Amazon Studios saying they want more seasons, Gaiman says on Twitter that "no decisions of any kind have been made yet by anyone," and that he is "not sure how I would feel about going on without" Pratchett, which is quite different from his prior position of "the story is done, that's all there is."
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 6:47 AM on July 31, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 6:47 AM on July 31, 2019 [2 favorites]
The treatment as a whole was arch in a way I left behind some time ago, but Aziraphale in particular was a delight, and the Aziraphale/Crowley relationship extremely charming. So it was a bit grin-and-bear-it in the non-A&C scenes, but I was still happy at the end.
Also the fanartists have really shown up, what with the near-infinite possibilities. Maybe I'll link some good ones here when I'm not at work.
posted by praemunire at 2:44 PM on July 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
Also the fanartists have really shown up, what with the near-infinite possibilities. Maybe I'll link some good ones here when I'm not at work.
posted by praemunire at 2:44 PM on July 31, 2019 [1 favorite]
Ugh, I can't find the link, but apparently he and Pratchett had outlined a sequel at some point, so...something exists.
I'm not sure I want more; this has been enough for 30 years, and the miniseries feels just right. That said someone on Tumblr was joking around that they should just put Michael Sheen and David Tennant in a series of period costumes and just film them doing improv in character, and honestly I would fund that myself.
posted by kalimac at 2:46 PM on July 31, 2019 [16 favorites]
I'm not sure I want more; this has been enough for 30 years, and the miniseries feels just right. That said someone on Tumblr was joking around that they should just put Michael Sheen and David Tennant in a series of period costumes and just film them doing improv in character, and honestly I would fund that myself.
posted by kalimac at 2:46 PM on July 31, 2019 [16 favorites]
The treatment as a whole was arch in a way I left behind some time ago, but Aziraphale in particular was a delight, and the Aziraphale/Crowley relationship extremely charming. So it was a bit grin-and-bear-it in the non-A&C scenes, but I was still happy at the end.
A lot of the series failed for me on a rewatch test--the non-Aziraphale/Crowley scenes in particular went from "this is kind of tedious, where are Sheen and Tennant" to "wow, this is actually rather bad, where are Sheen and Tennant"--and I wound up thinking that even "Sheen and Tennant" was really more "...huh, most of Sheen and Tennant is actually Sheen." But when it remained good for me, it was very good.
posted by thomas j wise at 6:49 PM on July 31, 2019
A lot of the series failed for me on a rewatch test--the non-Aziraphale/Crowley scenes in particular went from "this is kind of tedious, where are Sheen and Tennant" to "wow, this is actually rather bad, where are Sheen and Tennant"--and I wound up thinking that even "Sheen and Tennant" was really more "...huh, most of Sheen and Tennant is actually Sheen." But when it remained good for me, it was very good.
posted by thomas j wise at 6:49 PM on July 31, 2019
5_13_23_42_69_666: no! He brings it back too life and it flies off! just like in the book.
Nope - in the book, Crowley brings it back to life. I was bummed they changed it. I understand it was camera logistics, but it still was a minor annoyance.
posted by tzikeh at 8:36 PM on August 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
Nope - in the book, Crowley brings it back to life. I was bummed they changed it. I understand it was camera logistics, but it still was a minor annoyance.
posted by tzikeh at 8:36 PM on August 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
Ugh, I can't find the link, but apparently he and Pratchett had outlined a sequel at some point, so...something exists.
Yes, Gaiman and Pratchett emailed back and forth for years about the sequel -- that's where Gaiman pulled Gabriel's characterization, and some of the other angels' and demons', from. It was to be what Crowley says in the park at the end -- all of Heaven and Hell together vs. Humanity.
They left the line in, so I can only assume that was done to leave the door open.
posted by tzikeh at 8:38 PM on August 5, 2019 [3 favorites]
Yes, Gaiman and Pratchett emailed back and forth for years about the sequel -- that's where Gaiman pulled Gabriel's characterization, and some of the other angels' and demons', from. It was to be what Crowley says in the park at the end -- all of Heaven and Hell together vs. Humanity.
They left the line in, so I can only assume that was done to leave the door open.
posted by tzikeh at 8:38 PM on August 5, 2019 [3 favorites]
> those title cards
I thought them very reminiscent of the LittleBigPlanet video game.
posted by Monochrome at 8:31 PM on August 11, 2019
I thought them very reminiscent of the LittleBigPlanet video game.
posted by Monochrome at 8:31 PM on August 11, 2019
You are gonna be in for a good time for episode 3, then.
posted by sciatrix at 9:52 AM on August 14, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by sciatrix at 9:52 AM on August 14, 2019 [1 favorite]
I think I'm developing a problem, this keeps happening to me
posted by meese at 4:54 PM on August 14, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by meese at 4:54 PM on August 14, 2019 [3 favorites]
From Neil Gaiman on Twitter:
Just to confirm: the #GoodOmens DVD and BluRay will indeed have Deleted Scenes and Commentaries for All 6 episodes. You'll get to see War in Africa, Crowley in the BT Tower, and lots more. Out November 5th, just in time to blow up Parliament: Amazon pageposted by Pronoiac at 6:52 PM on August 31, 2019 [5 favorites]
WHEEEEEEEEEE
I've been writing fanfiction again and rolling around in extremely queer Victorian London. I have so many research books checked out. so many.
posted by sciatrix at 8:40 PM on August 31, 2019 [3 favorites]
I've been writing fanfiction again and rolling around in extremely queer Victorian London. I have so many research books checked out. so many.
posted by sciatrix at 8:40 PM on August 31, 2019 [3 favorites]
Unfortunately, the commentaries won't include Michael Sheen or David Tennant. However, Neil Gaimon said he's trying to get them to do some sort of podcast-style commentary track, whenever they have time.
I really want that commentary track.
posted by meese at 7:07 AM on September 1, 2019 [6 favorites]
I really want that commentary track.
posted by meese at 7:07 AM on September 1, 2019 [6 favorites]
Out November 5th, just in time to blow up Parliament
Parliament seems to be doing that all by itself.
posted by Grangousier at 3:42 PM on September 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
Parliament seems to be doing that all by itself.
posted by Grangousier at 3:42 PM on September 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
Finally watched it! My thoughts:
My reaction to it is pretty much exactly my reaction to the book, which was:
1) Everything that has anything to do with Crowley and Aziraphale is great, everyone and everything else I could not care less about.
2) The way the apocalypse is averted is an anticlimactic letdown.
Therefore my favorite by far was the pre-credits portion of episode 3. My spouse's comment after that episode: "When an angel and a demon love each other VERY MUCH..."
posted by kyrademon at 2:06 PM on September 16, 2019 [4 favorites]
My reaction to it is pretty much exactly my reaction to the book, which was:
1) Everything that has anything to do with Crowley and Aziraphale is great, everyone and everything else I could not care less about.
2) The way the apocalypse is averted is an anticlimactic letdown.
Therefore my favorite by far was the pre-credits portion of episode 3. My spouse's comment after that episode: "When an angel and a demon love each other VERY MUCH..."
posted by kyrademon at 2:06 PM on September 16, 2019 [4 favorites]
omigod the gavotte!
posted by harriet vane at 5:39 AM on April 11, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by harriet vane at 5:39 AM on April 11, 2020 [3 favorites]
Guys. Guys. GUYS.
There is going to be a second season.
I was extremely dubious at first, but there is further context over on Neil Gaiman's blog - apparently he and Sir Terry had planned to write a sequel to the book someday, and actually plotted it out one night when they were at a fan con and jet lag was keeping them awake. But one thing or another happened and they never did write that sequel. So instead, Neil is turning that into the plot of the second season. They've been keeping the planning under wraps, but - Michael Sheen is in, David Tennant is in, the director is in, Neil is in, and the only reason that Neil decided to de-cloak now is because they're at the point where they're actually starting to build sets in preparation for shooting.
AZIRAPHALE AND CROWLEY ARE BACK, BABY.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:33 AM on June 29, 2021 [4 favorites]
There is going to be a second season.
I was extremely dubious at first, but there is further context over on Neil Gaiman's blog - apparently he and Sir Terry had planned to write a sequel to the book someday, and actually plotted it out one night when they were at a fan con and jet lag was keeping them awake. But one thing or another happened and they never did write that sequel. So instead, Neil is turning that into the plot of the second season. They've been keeping the planning under wraps, but - Michael Sheen is in, David Tennant is in, the director is in, Neil is in, and the only reason that Neil decided to de-cloak now is because they're at the point where they're actually starting to build sets in preparation for shooting.
AZIRAPHALE AND CROWLEY ARE BACK, BABY.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:33 AM on June 29, 2021 [4 favorites]
I WAS JUST GOING TO POST THE NEWS HERE!!!
posted by Pendragon at 1:14 PM on June 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Pendragon at 1:14 PM on June 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
Well, that takes some of the sting out of the cancellation of 'Prodigal Son'. Nice!
posted by oh yeah! at 1:27 PM on June 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by oh yeah! at 1:27 PM on June 29, 2021 [1 favorite]
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
(begins to eagerly check clock once ever five minutes until it is quittin' time and she can go home)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:38 AM on May 31, 2019 [11 favorites]