The Good Place: A Chip Driver Mystery
October 31, 2019 6:34 PM - Season 4, Episode 6 - Subscribe
One of the new residents creates a division in the ranks.
She had said in the previous episode that Shawn rebooted her a bunch of times to make her sophisticated enough to masquerade as Good Janet, so even a slight uncertainty from her is a big deal.
It's interesting that this Bad Janet's belief in "humans are bad" seems to come from her Janet abilities, ie she's aware of everything going on down on Earth and applies the same point-system to it that sent everyone to the Bad Place. Now that she has a book containing all the things going on in the experiment, Shawn will order her to read it, and then she'll know... something? And she can't forget it or ignore it, that would go against her innate Janet-ness.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 9:19 PM on October 31, 2019 [11 favorites]
It's interesting that this Bad Janet's belief in "humans are bad" seems to come from her Janet abilities, ie she's aware of everything going on down on Earth and applies the same point-system to it that sent everyone to the Bad Place. Now that she has a book containing all the things going on in the experiment, Shawn will order her to read it, and then she'll know... something? And she can't forget it or ignore it, that would go against her innate Janet-ness.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 9:19 PM on October 31, 2019 [11 favorites]
"And that's how I got my nickname, 'The Defendant!'"
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 9:51 PM on October 31, 2019 [36 favorites]
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 9:51 PM on October 31, 2019 [36 favorites]
Bad Janet is 100% a truth-bomb sent to fuck with Shawn. It’s good to see the Soul Squad on offense again.
posted by Etrigan at 2:41 AM on November 1, 2019 [14 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 2:41 AM on November 1, 2019 [14 favorites]
How did Brent actually call Simone a bitch with the cursing filters enabled? Because it did not sound like bench to me at all.
posted by Suffocating Kitty at 4:47 AM on November 1, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by Suffocating Kitty at 4:47 AM on November 1, 2019 [5 favorites]
I loved how the writers just about explicitly pointed the finger at themselves examining how the Good Place is fundamentally centered around Whiteness: How Tahani, Simone and Chidi are, even here, judged by how well they accommodate Brent.
posted by whuppy at 5:08 AM on November 1, 2019 [27 favorites]
posted by whuppy at 5:08 AM on November 1, 2019 [27 favorites]
This was a really good and funny episode, and I'm prettttttty sure this is not meant to be the takeaway, but I find myself wondering yet again: maybe Brent should be in hell? Like, we're working from the assumption that the system is inherently flawed to a degree that all it can do is damn people, but are no people worthy of damnation? Is the show saying everyone is redeemable, with enough time and effort? I don't know that I believe that.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:45 AM on November 1, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:45 AM on November 1, 2019 [7 favorites]
Brent certainly meets the Pratchettian definition of evil to a T.
posted by whuppy at 5:56 AM on November 1, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by whuppy at 5:56 AM on November 1, 2019 [7 favorites]
brent 100% said bench, not bitch
posted by JimBennett at 6:13 AM on November 1, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by JimBennett at 6:13 AM on November 1, 2019 [3 favorites]
Brent definitely said bench, but his FORK a moment later was much less clear!
Eleanor's wardrobe is so buttoned up! She might as well be wearing a bow tie.
posted by mochapickle at 6:14 AM on November 1, 2019 [3 favorites]
Eleanor's wardrobe is so buttoned up! She might as well be wearing a bow tie.
posted by mochapickle at 6:14 AM on November 1, 2019 [3 favorites]
How did Brent actually call Simone a bitch with the cursing filters enabled? Because it did not sound like bench to me at all.
It was definitely "bench", but Brent did kinda "binch/betch" it.
posted by Etrigan at 6:20 AM on November 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
It was definitely "bench", but Brent did kinda "binch/betch" it.
posted by Etrigan at 6:20 AM on November 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
I think the shows ultimate solution will be that there cannot be one Good Place that is universally great for everyone who deserves to be in the Good Place because what makes a space a perfect Utopia for one wont work for someone else.
I commend the writers/producers having Chidi and Simone being the ones to identify that accomodating Brent's bigotry and various isms is most definitely *not* Good For Them.
posted by Faintdreams at 6:27 AM on November 1, 2019 [11 favorites]
I commend the writers/producers having Chidi and Simone being the ones to identify that accomodating Brent's bigotry and various isms is most definitely *not* Good For Them.
posted by Faintdreams at 6:27 AM on November 1, 2019 [11 favorites]
Also whooooo boy does Brent need a boatload of Therapy because his need for external validation from (close as the groups gets in his mind to being a peer group) is off-the-charts!
After being called out his protestations were almost childlike.
"I did a difficult thing and you should praise me for it!" Completely sidestepping all the deliberate, jerkynadult choices which led him to that point.
Also, brilliant Non-Apologies.
posted by Faintdreams at 6:33 AM on November 1, 2019 [4 favorites]
After being called out his protestations were almost childlike.
"I did a difficult thing and you should praise me for it!" Completely sidestepping all the deliberate, jerkynadult choices which led him to that point.
Also, brilliant Non-Apologies.
posted by Faintdreams at 6:33 AM on November 1, 2019 [4 favorites]
This episode really lends strength to the idea that the test subjects are the Soul Squad, not the newbies. Eleanor admitted she needs help to solve the Brent problem? Tahani and Jason immediately step up with suggestions of things they could do, not things Eleanor could do? GROWTH. And then Michael goes to Bad Janet, tells her about what those three did to fix things, and gives her the manifesto of all the other growth they've exhibited throughout the series? It's starting to feel obvious. But not in an obnoxious way. As always, I look forward to watching the whole season in one big binge when it's over (sob), because this show really benefits from being watched that way.
posted by palomar at 7:59 AM on November 1, 2019 [20 favorites]
posted by palomar at 7:59 AM on November 1, 2019 [20 favorites]
almost childlike
Almost? Brent’s temper tantrum was the most realistic thing this show has ever done.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:56 AM on November 1, 2019 [6 favorites]
Almost? Brent’s temper tantrum was the most realistic thing this show has ever done.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:56 AM on November 1, 2019 [6 favorites]
On the podcast, the actor who plays Brent said he’d repeatedly watched the Kavanaugh hearings to prepare for this scene.
posted by Superplin at 9:14 AM on November 1, 2019 [114 favorites]
posted by Superplin at 9:14 AM on November 1, 2019 [114 favorites]
I can't laugh at anything about Brent. He's too fucking real. I know he serves his function in the story, but I loathe every second he is speaking.
posted by tomboko at 9:25 AM on November 1, 2019 [30 favorites]
posted by tomboko at 9:25 AM on November 1, 2019 [30 favorites]
but I find myself wondering yet again: maybe Brent should be in hell?
Well, that's a nice thorny ethics question! Should there BE a hell, and if so, is Brent evil enough to send there?
I am firmly in the No Hell camp, No Not Even Hitler, because eternal punishment with no chance of rehabilitation is pointless. But then, I'm pretty iffy on the whole idea of an afterlife, so this is a purely theoretical argument to me.
posted by emjaybee at 9:32 AM on November 1, 2019 [13 favorites]
Well, that's a nice thorny ethics question! Should there BE a hell, and if so, is Brent evil enough to send there?
I am firmly in the No Hell camp, No Not Even Hitler, because eternal punishment with no chance of rehabilitation is pointless. But then, I'm pretty iffy on the whole idea of an afterlife, so this is a purely theoretical argument to me.
posted by emjaybee at 9:32 AM on November 1, 2019 [13 favorites]
I think No Hell is where the show is coming down too, and the piecemeal awakening starting from Michael, Glen, and now maybe BadJanet is proof that torture is bad for anyone, even the torturers.
Ultimately, I’d be fine with Brent not being tortured but staying in a Trying Place, where he had to learn to be good. I don’t know that I’d be satisfied with his rehabilitation within the time left on the show.
Jason and Chidi’s dance party was a happy moment. As was Ted Danson’s slightly bitter delivery of, “I never win Hottest.”
posted by gladly at 10:10 AM on November 1, 2019 [19 favorites]
Ultimately, I’d be fine with Brent not being tortured but staying in a Trying Place, where he had to learn to be good. I don’t know that I’d be satisfied with his rehabilitation within the time left on the show.
Jason and Chidi’s dance party was a happy moment. As was Ted Danson’s slightly bitter delivery of, “I never win Hottest.”
posted by gladly at 10:10 AM on November 1, 2019 [19 favorites]
I can't laugh at anything about Brent. He's too fucking real. I know he serves his function in the story, but I loathe every second he is speaking.
Yeah, I had a run-in with a Brent this week, so watching his tantrums are achingly familiar.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:58 AM on November 1, 2019 [5 favorites]
Yeah, I had a run-in with a Brent this week, so watching his tantrums are achingly familiar.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:58 AM on November 1, 2019 [5 favorites]
so brent spent his whole life getting rewarded for being brent. and that pattern is continuing in the afterlife: he does some ragey entitled narcissistic shitheel thing, and then everyone dances on eggshells to placate him. this is not helpful. he was rewarded in his life for being awful, and he's getting rewarded in his afterlife for being awful, and under those conditions he's never going to be not-awful.
so one problem with assessing brent's innate goodness or whatever is that he is heavily incentivized to be awful, so of course he's going to be awful. he's going to be awful in a way that ingrains awfulness deeper and deeper into his habits, because that is what the world has taught him to do.
team cockroach, in their handling of brent, has made the mistake of confusing niceness for goodness. they have been nice to brent, in the hopes that modelling niceness for him would eventually lead him to become nicer himself, and then eventually actually better. but nice is not what brent needs to become a better person. nice is not always good. nice is not what we owe the brents in our lives. our moral obligation is to be good to them, legitimately good — and being good to them means telling them the truth instead of tiptoeing around them. right up until the moment that simone and chidi broke the tension, right up until the calling-out and that really righteous punch, righteous both in the colloquial sense and in the theological sense, brent was still incentivized to be the same old bad brent. so he was going to be the same old bad brent. now that he's been told the truth, he has the opportunity — that he might not take — to each day strive to be better than he was the last day.
i believe this may link into the broader themes of the series as a whole; i can see the resolution being our heroes convincing gen that of course us down there are going to be bad, because we are incentivized to be bad, just like brent was incentivized to be... brent.
the worst are rewarded, the best are cast down, the world is stood on its head and we have no way of turning it back over. but if we could put the world right-side-up again, if we could make the last the first and the first the last, if our systems could genuinely incentivize us to practice goodness, then, like magic, we just might start practicing goodness.
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 11:50 AM on November 1, 2019 [29 favorites]
so one problem with assessing brent's innate goodness or whatever is that he is heavily incentivized to be awful, so of course he's going to be awful. he's going to be awful in a way that ingrains awfulness deeper and deeper into his habits, because that is what the world has taught him to do.
team cockroach, in their handling of brent, has made the mistake of confusing niceness for goodness. they have been nice to brent, in the hopes that modelling niceness for him would eventually lead him to become nicer himself, and then eventually actually better. but nice is not what brent needs to become a better person. nice is not always good. nice is not what we owe the brents in our lives. our moral obligation is to be good to them, legitimately good — and being good to them means telling them the truth instead of tiptoeing around them. right up until the moment that simone and chidi broke the tension, right up until the calling-out and that really righteous punch, righteous both in the colloquial sense and in the theological sense, brent was still incentivized to be the same old bad brent. so he was going to be the same old bad brent. now that he's been told the truth, he has the opportunity — that he might not take — to each day strive to be better than he was the last day.
i believe this may link into the broader themes of the series as a whole; i can see the resolution being our heroes convincing gen that of course us down there are going to be bad, because we are incentivized to be bad, just like brent was incentivized to be... brent.
the worst are rewarded, the best are cast down, the world is stood on its head and we have no way of turning it back over. but if we could put the world right-side-up again, if we could make the last the first and the first the last, if our systems could genuinely incentivize us to practice goodness, then, like magic, we just might start practicing goodness.
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 11:50 AM on November 1, 2019 [29 favorites]
I'm with you, tomboko. I've tried really hard not to let the really sick feelings his character dredges up for me affect my viewing this season, but it is. Though I did appreciate the actor talking about his Brent-like situation and privilege and how it's a constant unlearning process, on the podcast.
posted by kitten kaboodle at 12:09 PM on November 1, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by kitten kaboodle at 12:09 PM on November 1, 2019 [6 favorites]
Brent's a bad Brent, Bront.
posted by mochapickle at 1:03 PM on November 1, 2019 [20 favorites]
posted by mochapickle at 1:03 PM on November 1, 2019 [20 favorites]
I'm starting to wonder what Chidi and Simone are thinking at this point. With Chidi in possession of the knowledge that Jason is in The Good Place in error, does he imagine that's likely to be the explanation for Brent as well? With Simone seemingly aware of the cognitive dissonance involved in being stuck in The Good Place with a total asshat, are we one episode away from her suddenly declaring, like Eleanor before her, "Wait a minute! This is the Bad Place!"?
posted by merriment at 1:17 PM on November 1, 2019 [13 favorites]
posted by merriment at 1:17 PM on November 1, 2019 [13 favorites]
With Simone seemingly aware of the cognitive dissonance involved in being stuck in The Good Place with a total asshat, are we one episode away from her suddenly declaring, like Eleanor before her, "Wait a minute! This is the Bad Place!"?
I actually kept expecting this to happen during Brent's book party. I mean, how could a Good Place have that junk in it??? Reading about Chip Driver is certainly enough to make you say "OH. THIS is the Bad Place!!!"
posted by emjaybee at 1:35 PM on November 1, 2019 [21 favorites]
I actually kept expecting this to happen during Brent's book party. I mean, how could a Good Place have that junk in it??? Reading about Chip Driver is certainly enough to make you say "OH. THIS is the Bad Place!!!"
posted by emjaybee at 1:35 PM on November 1, 2019 [21 favorites]
At this point, I'm wondering if the new four aren't only going to figure out that this isn't the good place, but that they've all been put in the good place as an experiment to try to make them better people. Eleanor hasn't exactly been subtle.
I'm hoping that Simone has some thoughts about ethical experimentation on humans.
posted by dinty_moore at 6:17 PM on November 1, 2019 [4 favorites]
I'm hoping that Simone has some thoughts about ethical experimentation on humans.
posted by dinty_moore at 6:17 PM on November 1, 2019 [4 favorites]
Simone is definitely the clear-eyed, plan-ruining Eleanor of the new quartet, so if anyone’s gonna figure it out...
I am just starting to think that there are more threads than the format can handle well, though.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:57 PM on November 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
I am just starting to think that there are more threads than the format can handle well, though.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:57 PM on November 1, 2019 [1 favorite]
"Scarlett Pakistan" I am dying (with rage not mirth ugh), kudos to the writers
ALSO STRANGELY OFFENDED BY THE LACK OF TAHANI PICS ON THE HOTNESS WALL. I keep acting like I nonseriously ship Eleanor/Tahani but apparently I really feel it. Bah.
posted by grandiloquiet at 8:21 PM on November 1, 2019 [21 favorites]
ALSO STRANGELY OFFENDED BY THE LACK OF TAHANI PICS ON THE HOTNESS WALL. I keep acting like I nonseriously ship Eleanor/Tahani but apparently I really feel it. Bah.
posted by grandiloquiet at 8:21 PM on November 1, 2019 [21 favorites]
ALSO STRANGELY OFFENDED BY THE LACK OF TAHANI PICS ON THE HOTNESS WALL.
Oh good it wasn't just me.
posted by dinty_moore at 8:31 PM on November 1, 2019 [8 favorites]
Oh good it wasn't just me.
posted by dinty_moore at 8:31 PM on November 1, 2019 [8 favorites]
Brent is so obviously, cartoonishly buffoonish and awful that a redemption story for him lacks any satisfaction. He's awful because he's never had a reason or consequence for being awful, and being good takes effort and consideration. He needs to suffer shame or guilt or ostracism, something that makes him actually consider his actions and decide to do better.
posted by gryftir at 9:57 PM on November 1, 2019
posted by gryftir at 9:57 PM on November 1, 2019
Oh, and I've yet to see anything that suggests that my pet theory from season 3 when we met Simone that she's an angel or bodhisattva or something who's guiding everyone, possibly unconsciously, is wrong.
posted by gryftir at 10:09 PM on November 1, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by gryftir at 10:09 PM on November 1, 2019 [3 favorites]
ALSO STRANGELY OFFENDED BY THE LACK OF TAHANI PICS ON THE HOTNESS WALL.
She's on the wall at least four times.
posted by Gary at 10:17 PM on November 1, 2019 [12 favorites]
She's on the wall at least four times.
posted by Gary at 10:17 PM on November 1, 2019 [12 favorites]
Unless you meant "lack of" as too few instead of none at all. In which case continue being upset.
posted by Gary at 10:30 PM on November 1, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by Gary at 10:30 PM on November 1, 2019 [2 favorites]
SIX FEET UNDER PARR reminds me of the series of novels by former Denver Broncos kicker Jason Elam with titles like BLOWN COVERAGE and (I’m sorry) MONDAY NIGHT JIHAD.
posted by chrchr at 10:44 PM on November 1, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by chrchr at 10:44 PM on November 1, 2019 [5 favorites]
For those who watch both this and Bojack Horseman, I made a comment in another thread.
posted by kyrademon at 3:07 AM on November 2, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by kyrademon at 3:07 AM on November 2, 2019 [3 favorites]
I feel conflicted about Brent because a Yes everyone should try to be better but b. I am tired of White Dude Redemption Arcs.
posted by emjaybee at 7:45 AM on November 2, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 7:45 AM on November 2, 2019 [6 favorites]
"Our valiant attempt to save humanity may be ruined by a white dude's unchecked privilege and narcissistic behavior" rings true, though.
posted by Flannery Culp at 8:00 AM on November 2, 2019 [37 favorites]
posted by Flannery Culp at 8:00 AM on November 2, 2019 [37 favorites]
Eh, a week or two with the butthole spiders should straighten him out.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 9:20 AM on November 2, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 9:20 AM on November 2, 2019 [4 favorites]
"Our valiant attempt to save humanity may be ruined by a white dude's unchecked privilege and narcissistic behavior" rings true, though
It's a great choice. The judge originally decided to give humanity a second chance on the strength on the idea that life was too hard to behave ethically -- when was Jason going to learn to behave at Good Place standard? I like that they didn't foresee that for some people, life was too easy to behave ethically -- when was Brent going to learn to behave at Good Place standard? Also, there's some evidence that calling people out on their bad behavior worsens their sexism/racism/whatever, and that the best way to get someone to shape up is to be gently corrected by someone they view as a peer. (In that sense, ugh, they might be having a better time with it if Michael had seemed like the boss from the start.)
...and eventually this circles back to the problem we always have in getting people to confront their own privilege. How much energy do we put into being nice to a jerk that we could be using on....say...three other test subjects.
That said, this whole episode was through the frame of Michael trying to reach Bad Janet. So... who could say where we're really at with Brent? (Ugh.)
(And thanks for the screenshot of the hottie wall, way more Tahani up there than I first clocked!)
posted by grandiloquiet at 9:33 AM on November 2, 2019 [5 favorites]
It's a great choice. The judge originally decided to give humanity a second chance on the strength on the idea that life was too hard to behave ethically -- when was Jason going to learn to behave at Good Place standard? I like that they didn't foresee that for some people, life was too easy to behave ethically -- when was Brent going to learn to behave at Good Place standard? Also, there's some evidence that calling people out on their bad behavior worsens their sexism/racism/whatever, and that the best way to get someone to shape up is to be gently corrected by someone they view as a peer. (In that sense, ugh, they might be having a better time with it if Michael had seemed like the boss from the start.)
...and eventually this circles back to the problem we always have in getting people to confront their own privilege. How much energy do we put into being nice to a jerk that we could be using on....say...three other test subjects.
That said, this whole episode was through the frame of Michael trying to reach Bad Janet. So... who could say where we're really at with Brent? (Ugh.)
(And thanks for the screenshot of the hottie wall, way more Tahani up there than I first clocked!)
posted by grandiloquiet at 9:33 AM on November 2, 2019 [5 favorites]
The concern I have is that to run the experiment, they should have made clear to Brent that he was an imposter (like Michael did with Eleanor and Jason in Season 1). The fact that he doesn't even know his behaviour is bad makes it nearly impossible to rehabilitate him. (Tehani didn't know she was bad either, but at least she had redeeming qualities - e.g., raising money for charity.) Chidi is being tortured, but who else?
posted by obliquity of the ecliptic at 10:31 AM on November 2, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by obliquity of the ecliptic at 10:31 AM on November 2, 2019 [5 favorites]
The photo posted by Gary is blocked by Eleanor, and indeed, blocks another Tahani win. It took me too many minutes to search Twitter to find the official "Hottest Savior of the Week" wall, but the count, prior to Eleanor putting herself up for this week, is:
Janet: 7
Eleanor: 9
Jason: 3
Tahani: 5
Yes, this is what I spend my Saturday afternoons doing.
The one thing (ok, one of the things) that still bothers me... Yes, Simone is there to keep Chidi off the team and thus make things harder for Eleanor, but does Simone, herself, matter? Does she have any flaws. Does she not actually belong (or at least, more than all the others, newbies or Soul Squad) in the Good Place?
posted by The Wrong Kind of Cheese at 2:33 PM on November 2, 2019 [10 favorites]
Janet: 7
Eleanor: 9
Jason: 3
Tahani: 5
Yes, this is what I spend my Saturday afternoons doing.
The one thing (ok, one of the things) that still bothers me... Yes, Simone is there to keep Chidi off the team and thus make things harder for Eleanor, but does Simone, herself, matter? Does she have any flaws. Does she not actually belong (or at least, more than all the others, newbies or Soul Squad) in the Good Place?
posted by The Wrong Kind of Cheese at 2:33 PM on November 2, 2019 [10 favorites]
Does she have any flaws. Does she not actually belong (or at least, more than all the others, newbies or Soul Squad) in the Good Place?
The episode suggests that her flaw is "making snap judgments," and while Brent certainly justifies her judgments of him -- as the script also notes -- the season premiere two-parter seems in retrospect like it was about the way this led Simone into solipsism for a while.
She's empathetic, decisive and smart, and her decisiveness makes her a perfect foil for Chidi; a soulmate, even. But this also suggests that her decisiveness can come from a reductive place sometimes, much as Chidi's destructive indecisiveness comes from examining too many conflicting sets of priors. Both would lead to the exact kinds of indirect and unintended harms that the points system would hold against a human.
As to Brent, the problem of Brents is that they just don't go away, they not only self-perpetuate but actually make themselves worse problems in most contexts, and pretty much all of the things that would quickly resolve their negative impact on others are risky, taxing, and/or themselves immoral. In real life, you can try to sever yourself form narcissist or escape their sphere of influence, but they don't stop being a narcissist and they don't stop looking for replacement supply.
posted by kewb at 5:41 PM on November 2, 2019 [11 favorites]
The episode suggests that her flaw is "making snap judgments," and while Brent certainly justifies her judgments of him -- as the script also notes -- the season premiere two-parter seems in retrospect like it was about the way this led Simone into solipsism for a while.
She's empathetic, decisive and smart, and her decisiveness makes her a perfect foil for Chidi; a soulmate, even. But this also suggests that her decisiveness can come from a reductive place sometimes, much as Chidi's destructive indecisiveness comes from examining too many conflicting sets of priors. Both would lead to the exact kinds of indirect and unintended harms that the points system would hold against a human.
As to Brent, the problem of Brents is that they just don't go away, they not only self-perpetuate but actually make themselves worse problems in most contexts, and pretty much all of the things that would quickly resolve their negative impact on others are risky, taxing, and/or themselves immoral. In real life, you can try to sever yourself form narcissist or escape their sphere of influence, but they don't stop being a narcissist and they don't stop looking for replacement supply.
posted by kewb at 5:41 PM on November 2, 2019 [11 favorites]
I love Chidi's delightful enthusiasm about reading nooks: "I couldn’t actually go skiing because moving at an angle terrifies me, but that lodge had so many reading nooks! Just everywhere you look… nook!”
I feel this in my soul
posted by littlesq at 6:05 PM on November 2, 2019 [36 favorites]
I feel this in my soul
posted by littlesq at 6:05 PM on November 2, 2019 [36 favorites]
The judge originally decided to give humanity a second chance on the strength on the idea that life was too hard to behave ethically -- when was Jason going to learn to behave at Good Place standard? I like that they didn't foresee that for some people, life was too easy to behave ethically -- when was Brent going to learn to behave at Good Place standard?
Exactly!
Also the title of the book from seasons one and two was "What do we owe to each other" and I feel like this episode was "what do we owe to arseholes?" Niceness is not the right answer. I don't know what would help, but gentle nudging is insufficient and letting them continue isnt any better for them than it is for the people they're stomping all over.
posted by harriet vane at 7:16 PM on November 2, 2019 [1 favorite]
Exactly!
Also the title of the book from seasons one and two was "What do we owe to each other" and I feel like this episode was "what do we owe to arseholes?" Niceness is not the right answer. I don't know what would help, but gentle nudging is insufficient and letting them continue isnt any better for them than it is for the people they're stomping all over.
posted by harriet vane at 7:16 PM on November 2, 2019 [1 favorite]
So, off topic from the general thread, but I'm getting more and more of a sneaking suspicion that when Chidi gets all of his memories back in (I assume) the finale, we will not actually get what we so often get from TV, and that he will choose to remain with Simone -- and Eleanor will know that he made the best choice for himself. And I'm not sure how I feel about it. On the one hand, yes holy shit The Couple doesn't end up together in the finale, blow taken-for-granted TV series conclusions out of the water yes please. On the other hand... Eleanor's heart!
I dunno, man.
posted by tzikeh at 10:39 PM on November 2, 2019 [9 favorites]
I dunno, man.
posted by tzikeh at 10:39 PM on November 2, 2019 [9 favorites]
I feel this in my soul
Same! Going to a ski resort and not skiing, just hanging around the lodge in cords and a sweater and finding cozy places to savor a hot drink and a book, is my dream winter vacation.
Eleanor/Chidi has always seemed more a plot contrivance than a real couple to me, so most of me is pro-Simone/Chidi, but yes, this is (presumably, from the flashbacks) the only healthy relationship Eleanor has ever had, so it won't be easy for her.
posted by Flannery Culp at 7:59 AM on November 3, 2019 [4 favorites]
Same! Going to a ski resort and not skiing, just hanging around the lodge in cords and a sweater and finding cozy places to savor a hot drink and a book, is my dream winter vacation.
Eleanor/Chidi has always seemed more a plot contrivance than a real couple to me, so most of me is pro-Simone/Chidi, but yes, this is (presumably, from the flashbacks) the only healthy relationship Eleanor has ever had, so it won't be easy for her.
posted by Flannery Culp at 7:59 AM on November 3, 2019 [4 favorites]
"Scarlett Pakistan" I am dying (with rage not mirth ugh), kudos to the writers
Flashbacks to the Outback-set crime novel I read earlier this year in which the protagonist's love interest was named "Mandalay Blonde".
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 1:49 PM on November 3, 2019 [5 favorites]
Flashbacks to the Outback-set crime novel I read earlier this year in which the protagonist's love interest was named "Mandalay Blonde".
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 1:49 PM on November 3, 2019 [5 favorites]
Brent would have been a throwaway Bad Place joke in earlier seasons: "Stalin, Thatcher, guys that buy their secretaries underwear...", but here he's centred. He's like Zaphod Beeblebrox in the Total Perspective Vortex, and he suspects nothing. I want to see how they manage to produce a Brent-centric episode that decentres him, because they have to.
posted by Wrinkled Stumpskin at 3:56 PM on November 3, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by Wrinkled Stumpskin at 3:56 PM on November 3, 2019 [7 favorites]
The photo posted by Gary is blocked by Eleanor, and indeed, blocks another Tahani win. It took me too many minutes to search Twitter to find the official "Hottest Savior of the Week" wall, but the count, prior to Eleanor putting herself up for this week, is:
Janet: 7
Eleanor: 9
Jason: 3
Tahani: 5
Yes, this is what I spend my Saturday afternoons doing.
Thank you for saving the rest of us the trouble, because the idea occurred to me as well, but you'd already done it by the time I finished the thread! Also, how is Tahani less than Janet on here?
As to Brent, the problem of Brents is that they just don't go away, they not only self-perpetuate but "actually make themselves worse problems in most contexts, and pretty much all of the things that would quickly resolve their negative impact on others are risky, taxing, and/or themselves immoral.
I don't know what would help, but gentle nudging is insufficient and letting them continue isnt any better for them than it is for the people they're stomping all over.
"How do you solve a problem like a Brent?" is the question of our age, we DIRELY need to solve it or else people will die, and it's something that so far nobody has an answer to short of death (which won't even work here).
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:35 PM on November 3, 2019 [5 favorites]
Janet: 7
Eleanor: 9
Jason: 3
Tahani: 5
Yes, this is what I spend my Saturday afternoons doing.
Thank you for saving the rest of us the trouble, because the idea occurred to me as well, but you'd already done it by the time I finished the thread! Also, how is Tahani less than Janet on here?
As to Brent, the problem of Brents is that they just don't go away, they not only self-perpetuate but "actually make themselves worse problems in most contexts, and pretty much all of the things that would quickly resolve their negative impact on others are risky, taxing, and/or themselves immoral.
I don't know what would help, but gentle nudging is insufficient and letting them continue isnt any better for them than it is for the people they're stomping all over.
"How do you solve a problem like a Brent?" is the question of our age, we DIRELY need to solve it or else people will die, and it's something that so far nobody has an answer to short of death (which won't even work here).
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:35 PM on November 3, 2019 [5 favorites]
The first surprise of the Hotness Wall was that it wasn't just all Eleanor. The second surprise was that it wasn't mostly Tahani with one Stone Cold Steve Austin in there inexplicably.
posted by ckape at 7:57 PM on November 3, 2019 [21 favorites]
posted by ckape at 7:57 PM on November 3, 2019 [21 favorites]
he will choose to remain with Simone
So they are setting up yet another reflection of earlier events - one of the season 1 ways he was briefly tortured was by having to choose between the Eleanors (and Tahani).
posted by solotoro at 6:47 AM on November 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
So they are setting up yet another reflection of earlier events - one of the season 1 ways he was briefly tortured was by having to choose between the Eleanors (and Tahani).
posted by solotoro at 6:47 AM on November 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
With Simone seemingly aware of the cognitive dissonance involved in being stuck in The Good Place with a total asshat, are we one episode away from her suddenly declaring, like Eleanor before her, "Wait a minute! This is the Bad Place!"?
I think this is wrapped up in her initial theory that everything that was happening was just creations of her dying brain. It would seem that she is going along with the plan - developing relationships, participating in classes and neighborhood events. But she has never (on-screen) renounced that theory. We don't know how much she still wonders about it, or how far she has been swayed from it by spending time with Chidi, etc. After the events of the book signing, instead of realizing that this is not the Good Place because it is the Bad Place, she might be thinking that it is not the Good Place because it is all in her mind after all.
As always, curious on how the Janets work. In the previous flashback to the Janet Warehouse, we see Michael steal a "good Janet". But are the Janets differentiated in the warehouse or are they assigned good/bad/neutral after being assigned to a job? Either way, millions of reboots seems to open them up to a lot of unpredictability. If Bad Janet has truly been rebooted "40 million times", does this make her the most rebooted Janet? After however many rebooots, Good Janet is able to fake being "bad Janet" but also seemingly enjoy non-good things such as punching Shawn and the bar brawl. Bad Janet can now fake being "good", but is she secretly enjoying any part of the experience?
posted by mikepop at 8:49 AM on November 4, 2019 [4 favorites]
I think this is wrapped up in her initial theory that everything that was happening was just creations of her dying brain. It would seem that she is going along with the plan - developing relationships, participating in classes and neighborhood events. But she has never (on-screen) renounced that theory. We don't know how much she still wonders about it, or how far she has been swayed from it by spending time with Chidi, etc. After the events of the book signing, instead of realizing that this is not the Good Place because it is the Bad Place, she might be thinking that it is not the Good Place because it is all in her mind after all.
As always, curious on how the Janets work. In the previous flashback to the Janet Warehouse, we see Michael steal a "good Janet". But are the Janets differentiated in the warehouse or are they assigned good/bad/neutral after being assigned to a job? Either way, millions of reboots seems to open them up to a lot of unpredictability. If Bad Janet has truly been rebooted "40 million times", does this make her the most rebooted Janet? After however many rebooots, Good Janet is able to fake being "bad Janet" but also seemingly enjoy non-good things such as punching Shawn and the bar brawl. Bad Janet can now fake being "good", but is she secretly enjoying any part of the experience?
posted by mikepop at 8:49 AM on November 4, 2019 [4 favorites]
holy shit The Couple doesn't end up together in the finale
Or, polyamorous relationship and everyone is happy.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 9:14 AM on November 4, 2019 [7 favorites]
Or, polyamorous relationship and everyone is happy.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 9:14 AM on November 4, 2019 [7 favorites]
Throw in Tahani and EVERYONE is happy :)
Seriously, I would so be down with more polyamorous relationships in TV rather than trite love triangles.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:22 AM on November 4, 2019 [6 favorites]
Seriously, I would so be down with more polyamorous relationships in TV rather than trite love triangles.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:22 AM on November 4, 2019 [6 favorites]
Also, how is Tahani less than Janet on here?
I assumed that Eleanor was giving these awards and the board reflects her preferences and jealousies.
posted by Emmy Rae at 11:23 AM on November 4, 2019 [2 favorites]
I assumed that Eleanor was giving these awards and the board reflects her preferences and jealousies.
posted by Emmy Rae at 11:23 AM on November 4, 2019 [2 favorites]
Also, she loves to fluster Tahani.
posted by Tabitha Someday at 11:58 AM on November 4, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by Tabitha Someday at 11:58 AM on November 4, 2019 [5 favorites]
Yeah, but she thinks Tahani is hot! I don't ever remember her going on about how hot Janet is.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:13 PM on November 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:13 PM on November 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
She did offer compliments during the Jason rebound talk back in s2: “You contain all the knowledge in the universe, you have a rippin' bod, and you can literally do anything.”
posted by rewil at 2:23 PM on November 4, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by rewil at 2:23 PM on November 4, 2019 [3 favorites]
When Janet had a bar fight with some demons Eleanor was very into her and Chidi was like "are you ever not horny?"
posted by Emmy Rae at 2:50 PM on November 4, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by Emmy Rae at 2:50 PM on November 4, 2019 [4 favorites]
"Busty Alexa"
posted by ActingTheGoat at 3:32 PM on November 4, 2019 [8 favorites]
posted by ActingTheGoat at 3:32 PM on November 4, 2019 [8 favorites]
I'm not clear on how much bearimy has gone by since they rescued Janet, but I'm pretty sure most if not all of those 7 Hottest Savior awards actually went to disguised Bad Janet.
posted by Dojie at 6:37 PM on November 4, 2019 [9 favorites]
posted by Dojie at 6:37 PM on November 4, 2019 [9 favorites]
Oh, that would explain a looooooooooooot.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:32 PM on November 4, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:32 PM on November 4, 2019 [3 favorites]
Michael says he's been visiting Bad Janet in her cell for six months. There are 25 Hottest Saviors of the Week photos, so one could assume that the award was instituted after Janet was rescued and all of those are Good Janets. Unless bearimy.
I wonder what stage of regrowth Glenn has achieved in the intervening six months. Is he a social media CEO yet, or just a ball of tongues?
posted by mumkin at 12:17 AM on November 5, 2019 [10 favorites]
I wonder what stage of regrowth Glenn has achieved in the intervening six months. Is he a social media CEO yet, or just a ball of tongues?
posted by mumkin at 12:17 AM on November 5, 2019 [10 favorites]
MetaFilter: Unless bearimy.
posted by Etrigan at 6:33 AM on November 5, 2019 [9 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 6:33 AM on November 5, 2019 [9 favorites]
It took me until yesterday to work up the nerve to actually finish this episode.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:12 AM on November 5, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:12 AM on November 5, 2019 [3 favorites]
At one point Tahani as Elanor's soulmate during one of the reboots, Michael may have been on to something without knowing it...
Everybody should be so lucky to recover from a broken heart with a sexy giraffe.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 10:55 AM on November 5, 2019 [10 favorites]
Everybody should be so lucky to recover from a broken heart with a sexy giraffe.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 10:55 AM on November 5, 2019 [10 favorites]
1. I was so happy when Chidi punched Brent.
2. I binged the last five episodes back to back last night. I think this season up to this point might work better that way...but I can't say for sure since it's the only way I've watched it. I have found it differently funny from the other seasons. I think some of the stuff might hit better/bigger when binged.
3. This cast is so talented. D'arcy Carden and Ted Danson need all the awards.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 9:04 AM on November 6, 2019 [3 favorites]
2. I binged the last five episodes back to back last night. I think this season up to this point might work better that way...but I can't say for sure since it's the only way I've watched it. I have found it differently funny from the other seasons. I think some of the stuff might hit better/bigger when binged.
3. This cast is so talented. D'arcy Carden and Ted Danson need all the awards.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 9:04 AM on November 6, 2019 [3 favorites]
How much energy do we put into being nice to a jerk that we could be using on....say...three other test subjects.
Well it's the afterlife so you have actual infinity (or Bearimy) to play with, so that part doesn't bother me.
I think for the Brents of the world, I would recommend reincarnation as a not-Brent. Maybe several rounds of it.
posted by emjaybee at 10:22 AM on November 6, 2019
Well it's the afterlife so you have actual infinity (or Bearimy) to play with, so that part doesn't bother me.
I think for the Brents of the world, I would recommend reincarnation as a not-Brent. Maybe several rounds of it.
posted by emjaybee at 10:22 AM on November 6, 2019
Ah, the relevant Pratchett quote about evil: "Evil begins when you begin to treat people as things."
Chidi's skiing experience came from Michael Schur, who tweeted it was literally his ideal "skiing" experience.
posted by Pronoiac at 12:11 AM on November 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
Chidi's skiing experience came from Michael Schur, who tweeted it was literally his ideal "skiing" experience.
posted by Pronoiac at 12:11 AM on November 7, 2019 [4 favorites]
Eleanor's wardrobe is so buttoned up! She might as well be wearing a bow tie.
I was thinking Fidel Castro during one scene in the architect's office. Was trying to figure out if that was some comment on her leadership...?
posted by nequalsone at 9:07 AM on November 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
I was thinking Fidel Castro during one scene in the architect's office. Was trying to figure out if that was some comment on her leadership...?
posted by nequalsone at 9:07 AM on November 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
I thought of a zookeeper’s uniform which is also apropos.
posted by bq at 1:49 PM on November 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by bq at 1:49 PM on November 7, 2019 [1 favorite]
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posted by wabbittwax at 6:50 PM on October 31, 2019 [15 favorites]