Critical Role: What Dreams May Come
September 19, 2022 12:26 PM - Season 3, Episode 34 - Subscribe
Bells Hells grapple with a devastating loss, refusing to accept fate's machinations as they attempt to stay a step ahead of Paragon's Call...
[SPOILER & CONTENT WARNING] Do not proceed to this thread if you wish to remain unspoiled on major events in Campaign 3 and an event that some in the CR community found emotionally difficult.
[SPOILER & CONTENT WARNING] Do not proceed to this thread if you wish to remain unspoiled on major events in Campaign 3 and an event that some in the CR community found emotionally difficult.
SPOILERS.
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Yeah, there was an in-game period of about 24 seconds that got stretched into like an hour of agonizing and hemming and hawing. I understand the urge to indulge in High Drama—wouldn't be CR without it, and this was certainly a dramatic moment—but it was really starting to look like Ashley was going to roleplay Orem's life away.
I think he was the obvious choice in the moment because, as the players pointed out, everybody knew Laudna has died and returned before. But from the players' POV, I wonder if it would have been smarter to revivify Laudna, then use a Sending the next day to contact Keyleth and let her know to come True Rez her boy. Also risky, though—presumably Matt would be playing Keyleth, and I think as a DM he'd be totally justified in having her lay some "circle of life" philosophizing on them and refuse to bring him back.
posted by The Tensor at 1:08 PM on September 19, 2022
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Yeah, there was an in-game period of about 24 seconds that got stretched into like an hour of agonizing and hemming and hawing. I understand the urge to indulge in High Drama—wouldn't be CR without it, and this was certainly a dramatic moment—but it was really starting to look like Ashley was going to roleplay Orem's life away.
I think he was the obvious choice in the moment because, as the players pointed out, everybody knew Laudna has died and returned before. But from the players' POV, I wonder if it would have been smarter to revivify Laudna, then use a Sending the next day to contact Keyleth and let her know to come True Rez her boy. Also risky, though—presumably Matt would be playing Keyleth, and I think as a DM he'd be totally justified in having her lay some "circle of life" philosophizing on them and refuse to bring him back.
posted by The Tensor at 1:08 PM on September 19, 2022
I figured Orym was the obvious choice because he and Fearne have been adventuring with each other much longer than the rest of the group. And having Laudna - a Hollow One - go out on a Natural 1 on the death save was fitting.
Bringing Laudna back now becomes far more of a crapshoot, in terms of gaining access to the spell and material components, and Matt's little ritual of resurrection (he changed it up here from past uses, I think). Plus once a character is dead-dead, the DM gets to think about what else might happen...in this case, I suspect Delilah might not let Laudna linger too long and when we next see her, she's going to be turning that dreadful form against the group. Because why traumatize the group only once with a character death when you can do it again?
Anyways, it was hard to see Marisha leave the table and I really thought Laudna was a pretty awesome character.
posted by nubs at 1:25 PM on September 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
Bringing Laudna back now becomes far more of a crapshoot, in terms of gaining access to the spell and material components, and Matt's little ritual of resurrection (he changed it up here from past uses, I think). Plus once a character is dead-dead, the DM gets to think about what else might happen...in this case, I suspect Delilah might not let Laudna linger too long and when we next see her, she's going to be turning that dreadful form against the group. Because why traumatize the group only once with a character death when you can do it again?
Anyways, it was hard to see Marisha leave the table and I really thought Laudna was a pretty awesome character.
posted by nubs at 1:25 PM on September 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
I dug this episode, even as I got annoyed by the emotional faffing about (eg Ashley's "i hate this i hate this"*). I personally think Fearne is probably selfish enough that she wouldn't have had many qualms about bringing HER friend back first, especially as I don't recall Fearne having a strong bond with Laudna.
Matt's little ritual of resurrection (he changed it up here from past uses, I think).
Not so much change - being revivify rather than raise dead the ritual wasn't extended to everyone contributing, which makes sense to me.
I suspect Delilah might not let Laudna linger too long and when we next see her, she's going to be turning that dreadful form against the group.
Narratively this makes sense, but I think doing the same thing two campaigns in a row (dead PC comes back as the Big Bad) would not be something they'd pursue very strongly. Definitely don't think that Delilah is dead dead, and I wouldn't be surprised at a Keyleth-led resurrection... albeit would feel rather weird to me that Marisha gets to resurrect her own character.
* I mean, fair enough though. IATA.
posted by coriolisdave at 6:33 PM on September 19, 2022
Matt's little ritual of resurrection (he changed it up here from past uses, I think).
Not so much change - being revivify rather than raise dead the ritual wasn't extended to everyone contributing, which makes sense to me.
I suspect Delilah might not let Laudna linger too long and when we next see her, she's going to be turning that dreadful form against the group.
Narratively this makes sense, but I think doing the same thing two campaigns in a row (dead PC comes back as the Big Bad) would not be something they'd pursue very strongly. Definitely don't think that Delilah is dead dead, and I wouldn't be surprised at a Keyleth-led resurrection... albeit would feel rather weird to me that Marisha gets to resurrect her own character.
* I mean, fair enough though. IATA.
posted by coriolisdave at 6:33 PM on September 19, 2022
I think doing the same thing two campaigns in a row (dead PC comes back as the Big Bad) would not be something they'd pursue very strongly
I don't see Laudna coming back as the big bad, more as someone now in service of the big bad, and getting dropped in the party's way at a critical moment. But what the heck, let's see what happens.
posted by nubs at 8:35 PM on September 19, 2022
I don't see Laudna coming back as the big bad, more as someone now in service of the big bad, and getting dropped in the party's way at a critical moment. But what the heck, let's see what happens.
posted by nubs at 8:35 PM on September 19, 2022
I wonder if they'll call Keyleth in, then watch as she throws back the Mantle of the Tempest, raises the Spire of Conflux, begins to intone the ancient rite of True Resurrection...then looks down at the body, stops cold, and asks, "Orym, why the fuck am I raising Delilah Fucking Briarwood from the dead?"
posted by The Tensor at 11:10 PM on September 19, 2022
posted by The Tensor at 11:10 PM on September 19, 2022
Oh and just cos I need to record this somewhere in case I'm right, this is all totally leading up to unleashing the Chained Oblivion, right?
I mean we've had hints of THE IMPRISONED BETRAYER GOD stirring the past two campaigns, getting up to increasing levels of shenanigans, and now Bells Hells are fucking around with some sort of mysterious MOON PRISON I mean.
... it totally is.
posted by coriolisdave at 2:17 PM on September 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
I mean we've had hints of THE IMPRISONED BETRAYER GOD stirring the past two campaigns, getting up to increasing levels of shenanigans, and now Bells Hells are fucking around with some sort of mysterious MOON PRISON I mean.
... it totally is.
posted by coriolisdave at 2:17 PM on September 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
"Orym, why the fuck am I raising Delilah Fucking Briarwood from the dead?"
Laudna is one of the poor souls the Briarwoods hung from the Sun Tree, not Delilah herself -- Delilah is Laudna's patron.
I mean we've had hints of THE IMPRISONED BETRAYER GOD stirring the past two campaigns, getting up to increasing levels of shenanigans, and now Bells Hells are fucking around with some sort of mysterious MOON PRISON I mean.
The presence of Delilah and the number of callbacks to Whitestone at this point have me waiting for a connection to Vecna (god of secrets) and to whatever the heck is up with Ruidus, which seems to be a big damn secret in and of itself - its not exactly clear when it appeared or what it is, though I agree its tied to the betrayer gods in some way. And, of course, its starting to feel like every PC is going to wind up tied to the moon somehow.
posted by nubs at 3:24 PM on September 20, 2022
Laudna is one of the poor souls the Briarwoods hung from the Sun Tree, not Delilah herself -- Delilah is Laudna's patron.
I mean we've had hints of THE IMPRISONED BETRAYER GOD stirring the past two campaigns, getting up to increasing levels of shenanigans, and now Bells Hells are fucking around with some sort of mysterious MOON PRISON I mean.
The presence of Delilah and the number of callbacks to Whitestone at this point have me waiting for a connection to Vecna (god of secrets) and to whatever the heck is up with Ruidus, which seems to be a big damn secret in and of itself - its not exactly clear when it appeared or what it is, though I agree its tied to the betrayer gods in some way. And, of course, its starting to feel like every PC is going to wind up tied to the moon somehow.
posted by nubs at 3:24 PM on September 20, 2022
I think Tharizdun, the Chained Oblivion, is a known and named Betrayer god who was involved in the Calamity et seq. Whoever is imprisoned in Ruidus is older and nameless.
posted by The Tensor at 11:14 PM on September 20, 2022
posted by The Tensor at 11:14 PM on September 20, 2022
Laudna is one of the poor souls the Briarwoods hung from the Sun Tree, not Delilah herself -- Delilah is Laudna's patron.
Or Laudna is the soul of one of those poor people somehow propelled into one of Delilah's clones (which we know she was using) by the burst of necromantic energy when she was defeated under Whitestone.
OR Laudna is who she thinks she is, but through their bond Delilah has been slowly tuning/grooming Laudna to serve as a clone (since she apparently didn't have one prepared when she died at the end of C1).
Something was stopped by FCG casting Gentle Repose on Laudna and I suspect it was Delilah's return in Laudna's body.
posted by The Tensor at 11:23 PM on September 20, 2022
Or Laudna is the soul of one of those poor people somehow propelled into one of Delilah's clones (which we know she was using) by the burst of necromantic energy when she was defeated under Whitestone.
OR Laudna is who she thinks she is, but through their bond Delilah has been slowly tuning/grooming Laudna to serve as a clone (since she apparently didn't have one prepared when she died at the end of C1).
Something was stopped by FCG casting Gentle Repose on Laudna and I suspect it was Delilah's return in Laudna's body.
posted by The Tensor at 11:23 PM on September 20, 2022
the number of callbacks to Whitestone
I'm going to have to go back to Campaign 1, I think. I feel like I started really late, like within the last ten episode of C1, and did try listening from the beginning maybe last year but it was just too rough. A huge chunk of the Vox Machina callbacks go over my head (Ditto the lore stuff in Calamity), but it definitely looks like Act 2 of C1 would be the place to start.
annoyed by the emotional faffing about (eg Ashley's "i hate this i hate this")
That is absolutely the worst part of listening to the podcast; the cliffhanger had me watching for the first time ever and for whatever reason a lot of the annoying stuff was mitigated, presumably because I could tab over to Twitter while Ashley did her shtick of not paying attention, then overreacting, then forgetting how the game works.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 4:29 PM on September 21, 2022
I'm going to have to go back to Campaign 1, I think. I feel like I started really late, like within the last ten episode of C1, and did try listening from the beginning maybe last year but it was just too rough. A huge chunk of the Vox Machina callbacks go over my head (Ditto the lore stuff in Calamity), but it definitely looks like Act 2 of C1 would be the place to start.
annoyed by the emotional faffing about (eg Ashley's "i hate this i hate this")
That is absolutely the worst part of listening to the podcast; the cliffhanger had me watching for the first time ever and for whatever reason a lot of the annoying stuff was mitigated, presumably because I could tab over to Twitter while Ashley did her shtick of not paying attention, then overreacting, then forgetting how the game works.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 4:29 PM on September 21, 2022
I'm really glad I'm watching these episodes on video and not listening to them on podcast as I usually do, because I would have missed so much.
Seeing the cast's body language and expressions makes me a lot more forgiving of all the faffing about.
I wonder if there will be any consequences (or even acknowledgement) of the people who must have died when Imogen went nova at the end of the previous episode and destroyed all those buildings.
posted by Zumbador at 10:35 PM on September 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
Seeing the cast's body language and expressions makes me a lot more forgiving of all the faffing about.
I wonder if there will be any consequences (or even acknowledgement) of the people who must have died when Imogen went nova at the end of the previous episode and destroyed all those buildings.
posted by Zumbador at 10:35 PM on September 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
Agreed with the folks commenting on how much better the last couple of eps were on video. I switched over because I wasn't following the battle because of the side conversations, and the faces feel important. (Although I usually only listen to the podcast and have been trying to figure out if Taliesin just has RBF, or if he was genuinely frustrated, or if he was Acting. Other people were making the line of "our characters are having big feelings but we are all fine" a lot clearer than he was.)
>Something was stopped by FCG casting Gentle Repose on Laudna
Whatever it was seemed fairly obvious to the cast, but watching only s3, I couldn't follow what was going on. I thought maybe if Laudna fully died, then whatever reason she was killed in the first place could finally happen, which would suit Delilah just fine.
posted by tchemgrrl at 11:33 AM on September 25, 2022
>Something was stopped by FCG casting Gentle Repose on Laudna
Whatever it was seemed fairly obvious to the cast, but watching only s3, I couldn't follow what was going on. I thought maybe if Laudna fully died, then whatever reason she was killed in the first place could finally happen, which would suit Delilah just fine.
posted by tchemgrrl at 11:33 AM on September 25, 2022
tchemgrrl I've seen speculation that the gentle repose spell prevented Delilah from being able to raise Laudna as a zombie.
posted by Zumbador at 12:21 PM on September 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Zumbador at 12:21 PM on September 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Taliesin just has RBF, or if he was genuinely frustrated, or if he was Acting
If you figure it out lmk, cos I have never been able to read Tal, not even a little bit.
posted by coriolisdave at 7:29 PM on September 25, 2022
If you figure it out lmk, cos I have never been able to read Tal, not even a little bit.
posted by coriolisdave at 7:29 PM on September 25, 2022
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Intrigued to finish off the back half tonight and see what happens now.
This comment deliberately kind of vague so as to take up some space before the full on discussion.
posted by nubs at 12:31 PM on September 19, 2022