The Last of Us: Long Long Time Show Only
January 29, 2023 7:22 PM - Season 1, Episode 3 - Subscribe
Joel and Ellie head to a sanctuary of sorts that Joel knows of. It's an abandoned small town that's manned by Frank and Bill, two lovers who've been leading a quiet life after the world fell apart. Through flashbacks we learn how they met and how their relationship grew over the years after the pandemic.
Nick Offerman stars as Bill, Murray Bartlett portrays Frank ina quietly beautiful love story that takes place after the end of the world.
Nick Offerman stars as Bill, Murray Bartlett portrays Frank ina quietly beautiful love story that takes place after the end of the world.
Previous episodes have amazed me by how well it held to the source material. This EP is a completely new side story that was absolutely fantastic and moving in a way I did not expect. And Ellie's line "it's like a space ship!" resonates fantastically with another moment later in the story I am incredibly looking forward to... And her completely blank look when Joel said 'seatbelt' cracked me up.
posted by FatherDagon at 7:27 PM on January 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by FatherDagon at 7:27 PM on January 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
As someone who never played the game and has no clue of the backstory, it was absolutely fantastic to see Bill and Frank figure each other out and realize they were attracted to one another. It could be argued that the only reason Frank was able to leave the pit alive was because Bill recognized something in him.
This was one of the longer episodes and I'm frustrated, in a good way, that it wasn't longer, because the story of Frank and Bill was so amazingly well told. Kudos to both actors for really putting the work in to craft the relationship between two people who would have never met had the infection not occurred. But it did, and Frank traveled from Baltimore to Boston and literally stumbled into the life he was meant to live.
Joel also was given a mission and damn if it was obvious and clear, while setting the stakes for the rest of the series. He's there to make things right, make the world a better place by protecting Ellie at all costs. No more just getting by, his purpose in life is Ellie, just as Bill's purpose was Frank's. It's a compelling take, laid out well.
Hats off to all the cast and crew, the writing, direction, lighting and everything about the show is top notch. I know where I'll be on Sunday nights in the future.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:35 PM on January 29, 2023 [15 favorites]
This was one of the longer episodes and I'm frustrated, in a good way, that it wasn't longer, because the story of Frank and Bill was so amazingly well told. Kudos to both actors for really putting the work in to craft the relationship between two people who would have never met had the infection not occurred. But it did, and Frank traveled from Baltimore to Boston and literally stumbled into the life he was meant to live.
Joel also was given a mission and damn if it was obvious and clear, while setting the stakes for the rest of the series. He's there to make things right, make the world a better place by protecting Ellie at all costs. No more just getting by, his purpose in life is Ellie, just as Bill's purpose was Frank's. It's a compelling take, laid out well.
Hats off to all the cast and crew, the writing, direction, lighting and everything about the show is top notch. I know where I'll be on Sunday nights in the future.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:35 PM on January 29, 2023 [15 favorites]
We crying in the club strawberry patch tonight
posted by bcwinters at 7:44 PM on January 29, 2023 [18 favorites]
posted by bcwinters at 7:44 PM on January 29, 2023 [18 favorites]
"Hey Nick, I'm not saying you're going to win an Emmy, but do you want to win an Emmy?"
posted by Etrigan at 7:47 PM on January 29, 2023 [17 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 7:47 PM on January 29, 2023 [17 favorites]
Wow. Just....wow. What an unexpectedly beautiful apocalypse story. Loved the interaction between Tess and Frank - just a few lines of dialogue that perfectly captured how that relationship must have started and grown, with both of them seeing the value in combining forces, and both knowing their partners would be a tough sell. So well done. I would have loved to see more of that.
it was absolutely fantastic to see Bill and Frank figure each other out and realize they were attracted to one another.
The sex scene between them was so tender; it did seem to happen too quickly but then I remembered we were 4 years into FungusWorld, at which point I'm sure I'd be looking for any cues that a man I'd met was queer, and would jump at the chance to act on that. I don't think the moment for Bill was seeing Frank in the pit; he told him to leave and vehemently refused food at first. I think it was the Arby's remark and then the "I mean you already know I'm bad at lying" and a very cute smile that gets Bill to change his mind. The piano was the clincher.
Such a great episode - unpredictable, unique in zombiedom, basically everything I'm hoping this show will continue to deliver.
posted by mediareport at 7:49 PM on January 29, 2023 [8 favorites]
it was absolutely fantastic to see Bill and Frank figure each other out and realize they were attracted to one another.
The sex scene between them was so tender; it did seem to happen too quickly but then I remembered we were 4 years into FungusWorld, at which point I'm sure I'd be looking for any cues that a man I'd met was queer, and would jump at the chance to act on that. I don't think the moment for Bill was seeing Frank in the pit; he told him to leave and vehemently refused food at first. I think it was the Arby's remark and then the "I mean you already know I'm bad at lying" and a very cute smile that gets Bill to change his mind. The piano was the clincher.
Such a great episode - unpredictable, unique in zombiedom, basically everything I'm hoping this show will continue to deliver.
posted by mediareport at 7:49 PM on January 29, 2023 [8 favorites]
resonates fantastically with another moment later in the story I am incredibly looking forward to
Can I ask that folks please don't do the above? In the past it has created a slippery slope that encourages other people to also start hinting about what they also know is coming, which in so many cases on Fanfare has led to someone inadvertently ruining something for those of us who prefer to keep our viewing 100% fresh. Please please save those hinting comments for the other thread. Thanks so much.
posted by mediareport at 7:51 PM on January 29, 2023 [29 favorites]
Can I ask that folks please don't do the above? In the past it has created a slippery slope that encourages other people to also start hinting about what they also know is coming, which in so many cases on Fanfare has led to someone inadvertently ruining something for those of us who prefer to keep our viewing 100% fresh. Please please save those hinting comments for the other thread. Thanks so much.
posted by mediareport at 7:51 PM on January 29, 2023 [29 favorites]
That was an unexpected episode and I liked the fact that it didn't veer into tragedy in the usual way for this type of story, where one of the pair gets infected. Here, two men got to meet, fall in love, live a wonderful life together and go out on their own terms. Very well done.
posted by nubs at 8:24 PM on January 29, 2023 [13 favorites]
posted by nubs at 8:24 PM on January 29, 2023 [13 favorites]
Goddammit is every character I like going to die. I know this is a zombie show but usually they milk it for longer than this. I really liked seeing Tess and Frank hang out.
(Once Frank laid out his decision/plan to die, I was expecting Bill to live long enough to send Joel on his way and then blow his brains out, so this way was actually much nicer? Kind of romantic, even!)
Ellie has a gun! Her Chekhov's not-gun thing has officially turned into a Chekhov's secret gun thing.
posted by grandiloquiet at 8:42 PM on January 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
(Once Frank laid out his decision/plan to die, I was expecting Bill to live long enough to send Joel on his way and then blow his brains out, so this way was actually much nicer? Kind of romantic, even!)
Ellie has a gun! Her Chekhov's not-gun thing has officially turned into a Chekhov's secret gun thing.
posted by grandiloquiet at 8:42 PM on January 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
*applause*
"A man who knows to pair rabbit with a Beaujolais."
"I know I don't seem like the type."
"No, you do."
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 10:49 PM on January 29, 2023 [20 favorites]
"A man who knows to pair rabbit with a Beaujolais."
"I know I don't seem like the type."
"No, you do."
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 10:49 PM on January 29, 2023 [20 favorites]
Tom + Lorenzo: "For us, it was the strawberries."
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:11 PM on January 29, 2023 [11 favorites]
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:11 PM on January 29, 2023 [11 favorites]
Holy shit this show is killing me where I sit. It's such a goddamn beautiful show. Made me cry multiple times. Good on these folks. Well fucking done.
posted by ishmael at 11:51 PM on January 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by ishmael at 11:51 PM on January 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
Bonus Tess!
Loved the "Yeah they're Nazi's now, but they weren't back then" line.
with both of them seeing the value in combining forces, and both knowing their partners would be a tough sell.
I think Joel wanted the sale too! He tried to speak Bill's language, paranoia, and thought of something Bill would want to trade for. Though I'm not sure what Tess and Joel were getting back, I guess loot from all the stores. The QZ obviously needed everything.
posted by fleacircus at 12:09 AM on January 30, 2023 [5 favorites]
Loved the "Yeah they're Nazi's now, but they weren't back then" line.
with both of them seeing the value in combining forces, and both knowing their partners would be a tough sell.
I think Joel wanted the sale too! He tried to speak Bill's language, paranoia, and thought of something Bill would want to trade for. Though I'm not sure what Tess and Joel were getting back, I guess loot from all the stores. The QZ obviously needed everything.
posted by fleacircus at 12:09 AM on January 30, 2023 [5 favorites]
Though I'm not sure what Tess and Joel were getting back, I guess loot from all the stores.
Also, since he had a working vehicle, and his ability to cobble together solutions for different products, I think it's implied he could forage and transport goods and components a lot more efficiently than a regular person on foot could.
posted by ishmael at 12:41 AM on January 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
Also, since he had a working vehicle, and his ability to cobble together solutions for different products, I think it's implied he could forage and transport goods and components a lot more efficiently than a regular person on foot could.
posted by ishmael at 12:41 AM on January 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
the last of us writers were like “hey joel needs a car. what if we write the most touching and heartbreaking hour of television in the world”
posted by Etrigan at 3:07 AM on January 30, 2023 [21 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 3:07 AM on January 30, 2023 [21 favorites]
This is a very minor detail, but was Bill keeping car batteries in a fridge? Does that help preserve them?
posted by jeoc at 4:24 AM on January 30, 2023
posted by jeoc at 4:24 AM on January 30, 2023
I believe the jar in the fridge marked SULF was sulfuric acid, which Joel then put in the drained truck battery and charged up.
posted by Etrigan at 4:45 AM on January 30, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 4:45 AM on January 30, 2023 [5 favorites]
Since everyone else is covering the beautiful heartbreaking story, I'll depart from that to share the hearty laughter I had when the "10 miles outside of Boston" caption came up as Joel and Ellie picked their way along a creek with a glorious mountain range in the background, a glorious mountain range that you will not find this side of the Mississippi, mind you. A good laugh for someone who grew up outside of Boston.
posted by kokaku at 6:59 AM on January 30, 2023 [30 favorites]
posted by kokaku at 6:59 AM on January 30, 2023 [30 favorites]
Oh wow what a beautiful heartbreaking love story of an episode!! And that Tom + Lorenzo review is worth a read.
posted by ellieBOA at 7:00 AM on January 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by ellieBOA at 7:00 AM on January 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
Since everyone else is covering the beautiful heartbreaking story, I'll depart from that to share the hearty laughter I had when the "10 miles outside of Boston" caption came up as Joel and Ellie picked their way along a creek with a glorious mountain range in the background, a glorious mountain range that you will not find this side of the Mississippi, mind you.
I too had a chuckle when I saw that, and have been trying to place where that was - I'm guessing somewhere in Kananaskis Country, an Alberta provincial park, or somewhere else in the Canmore area. I'm sure I'll come across an update on shooting locations for this episode, and will share it. What I think will be funny from my side is that they went from the western part of the province, near the mountains, at the start of the episode to somewhere likely more in the south-eastern part, to get the rolling grassland/hills, for the rest of the walk.
both knowing their partners would be a tough sell
For all of the gruff paranoia of Bill towards Joel, note that he kept telling Frank to go to Joel once he was shot. There was a respect there.
posted by nubs at 7:18 AM on January 30, 2023 [8 favorites]
I too had a chuckle when I saw that, and have been trying to place where that was - I'm guessing somewhere in Kananaskis Country, an Alberta provincial park, or somewhere else in the Canmore area. I'm sure I'll come across an update on shooting locations for this episode, and will share it. What I think will be funny from my side is that they went from the western part of the province, near the mountains, at the start of the episode to somewhere likely more in the south-eastern part, to get the rolling grassland/hills, for the rest of the walk.
both knowing their partners would be a tough sell
For all of the gruff paranoia of Bill towards Joel, note that he kept telling Frank to go to Joel once he was shot. There was a respect there.
posted by nubs at 7:18 AM on January 30, 2023 [8 favorites]
the hearty laughter I had when the "10 miles outside of Boston" caption came up
Look, it's been 20 years, geological stuff happens.
posted by Etrigan at 7:37 AM on January 30, 2023 [16 favorites]
Look, it's been 20 years, geological stuff happens.
posted by Etrigan at 7:37 AM on January 30, 2023 [16 favorites]
my first thought on seeing the 10 miles from boston with dramatic mountains was damn i guess the cordyceps were able to move the berkshires a few hundred miles, an underrated side effect of the apocalypse. with such a big budget it’s a shame they seem to be sticking to canada for their shooting
posted by dis_integration at 7:38 AM on January 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 7:38 AM on January 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
Did...
... ... ... ... ... any-
one... ... ... ... el
se... ... ... ... ...
find HBO's servers too bogged down to use last night?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:41 AM on January 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
... ... ... ... ... any-
one... ... ... ... el
se... ... ... ... ...
find HBO's servers too bogged down to use last night?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:41 AM on January 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
We also got a few mo...
ments of pausing, but on...
ly three, maybe four. Nev...
er longer than a couple of seconds.
posted by Etrigan at 9:02 AM on January 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
ments of pausing, but on...
ly three, maybe four. Nev...
er longer than a couple of seconds.
posted by Etrigan at 9:02 AM on January 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
It wasn't just that. Even when it did play, it was pretty reduced image quality.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:32 AM on January 30, 2023
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:32 AM on January 30, 2023
And so just to make sure I got the timing right - Bill had the radio setup to autoplay 80s hits if he didn't hit reset every once in a while, right? So when the radio starting playing 80s hits towards the end of the first episode, that was a certain time frame after the final dinner.
I'm kind of surprised he didn't have a different playlist in place for "I was unable to hit the reset button"; it seems like the kind of thing he would want a specific signal for.
posted by nubs at 9:59 AM on January 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm kind of surprised he didn't have a different playlist in place for "I was unable to hit the reset button"; it seems like the kind of thing he would want a specific signal for.
posted by nubs at 9:59 AM on January 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm kind of surprised he didn't have a different playlist in place for "I was unable to hit the reset button"; it seems like the kind of thing he would want a specific signal for.
Joel said that '80s meant "trouble", but if Bill ran into trouble, he knew that Joel and Tess weren't near enough to be of assistance, nor would he want their help. If they happened to be nearby, great, but note that when Bill got shot, he didn't tell Frank "Call Joel and Tess and have them bring bandages," he told Frank "Call Joel -- he'll take care of you."
I think that as far as Bill was concerned, there were only three things he would ever want to communicate to Joel:
posted by Etrigan at 10:28 AM on January 30, 2023 [7 favorites]
Joel said that '80s meant "trouble", but if Bill ran into trouble, he knew that Joel and Tess weren't near enough to be of assistance, nor would he want their help. If they happened to be nearby, great, but note that when Bill got shot, he didn't tell Frank "Call Joel and Tess and have them bring bandages," he told Frank "Call Joel -- he'll take care of you."
I think that as far as Bill was concerned, there were only three things he would ever want to communicate to Joel:
- I don't have anything new to trade ('60s songs).
- I have something new to trade ('70s songs).
- I am dead or otherwise gone from the compound permanently ('80s songs).
posted by Etrigan at 10:28 AM on January 30, 2023 [7 favorites]
all of the above, plus so many tiny little things -- the way Bill turned the plate *just so* and held the wine bottle with his thumb in the indented base; when he first arrived, Frank tracing his finger through the dust on the mantelpiece, a sign that perhaps Bill needed his touch, and then at the end, the key sliding through the trace of dust on the dining room table, dust that wouldn't have been there if Frank was present; the artwork on the wall, the older, clear, sharply defined portraits of Bill, to the last one, where Parkinson's disease had put a tremor in Frank's hand....
I'm going to be thinking about this one for a long, long time.
posted by martin q blank at 10:41 AM on January 30, 2023 [13 favorites]
I'm going to be thinking about this one for a long, long time.
posted by martin q blank at 10:41 AM on January 30, 2023 [13 favorites]
I'm not crying, you're crying.
posted by essexjan at 11:38 AM on January 30, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by essexjan at 11:38 AM on January 30, 2023 [10 favorites]
Director Peter Hoar talks with Them about bringing Frank and Bill to the screen.
posted by ellieBOA at 11:58 AM on January 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by ellieBOA at 11:58 AM on January 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
Murray Bartlett clocking Nick Offerman as gay three times in less than five minutes now this is TELEVISION (via)
posted by ellieBOA at 1:13 PM on January 30, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by ellieBOA at 1:13 PM on January 30, 2023 [9 favorites]
So I posted this over in the "game included" thread, bringing it here too (which is where I meant to be):
Some location notes:
-unfortunately, there is no discussion of the opening scene "10 miles west of Boston", but I believe it to be the Sheep River falls area based on talking with some other people
-the external part of Bill's house is in a neighbourhood of High River - that area has been abandoned since 2013 due to high flood risk;
-the bridge Joel and Ellie hike across is in Fish Creek Park, a provincial park located inside Calgary, the second largest urban park in Canada;
-the store where Joel had items stashed was in Priddis, Alberta;
-Joel and Ellie's hike took them through the Ann & Sandy Cross Conservation area, just southwest of Calgary.
So they didn't come as far south and east in the province as I thought in this episode, but in the trailers for next week, they will be near Lethbridge as I'm sure I saw the High Level Bridge in the background.
posted by nubs at 1:24 PM on January 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
Some location notes:
-unfortunately, there is no discussion of the opening scene "10 miles west of Boston", but I believe it to be the Sheep River falls area based on talking with some other people
-the external part of Bill's house is in a neighbourhood of High River - that area has been abandoned since 2013 due to high flood risk;
-the bridge Joel and Ellie hike across is in Fish Creek Park, a provincial park located inside Calgary, the second largest urban park in Canada;
-the store where Joel had items stashed was in Priddis, Alberta;
-Joel and Ellie's hike took them through the Ann & Sandy Cross Conservation area, just southwest of Calgary.
So they didn't come as far south and east in the province as I thought in this episode, but in the trailers for next week, they will be near Lethbridge as I'm sure I saw the High Level Bridge in the background.
posted by nubs at 1:24 PM on January 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
Goddammit is every character I like going to die.
From the rhythm of the first 3 episodes, I have a feeling we'll be seeing a lot more of our favorite dead characters in flashbacks in future episodes. That looks to be a key part of the storytelling here.
posted by mediareport at 1:34 PM on January 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
From the rhythm of the first 3 episodes, I have a feeling we'll be seeing a lot more of our favorite dead characters in flashbacks in future episodes. That looks to be a key part of the storytelling here.
posted by mediareport at 1:34 PM on January 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
Yeah, the mountain stream scene screamed Pacific Northwest. I only briefly played TLoU and also played—yet another—zombie game (Days Gone) which took place in Washington State. I got the two games confused in my head there for a bit.
I loved this episode. It reminded me strongly of Station Eleven, which isn't a bad thing. I thought the love story between Bill and Frank was well done, but I found that it started to drag in places. On reflection, I kind of wished they had tightened up the Bill & Frank solo stuff a bit to give us a little more Bill, Frank, Tess and Joel all together. Minor criticism.
I thought it weird and distracting that Bill and Frank always had lights and other electricity on. Also, gasoline goes bad pretty quickly. Minor things, but little details like that would have been cool to see addressed in quick ways (have Bill & Frank go to bed at sunset and rise at dawn, for example).
I'm honestly amazed by how good this series is so far. All the acting is just great. I can clearly hear the dialog and dark scenes aren't too dark to see.
posted by SoberHighland at 1:41 PM on January 30, 2023 [5 favorites]
I loved this episode. It reminded me strongly of Station Eleven, which isn't a bad thing. I thought the love story between Bill and Frank was well done, but I found that it started to drag in places. On reflection, I kind of wished they had tightened up the Bill & Frank solo stuff a bit to give us a little more Bill, Frank, Tess and Joel all together. Minor criticism.
I thought it weird and distracting that Bill and Frank always had lights and other electricity on. Also, gasoline goes bad pretty quickly. Minor things, but little details like that would have been cool to see addressed in quick ways (have Bill & Frank go to bed at sunset and rise at dawn, for example).
I'm honestly amazed by how good this series is so far. All the acting is just great. I can clearly hear the dialog and dark scenes aren't too dark to see.
posted by SoberHighland at 1:41 PM on January 30, 2023 [5 favorites]
Oof, just saw Jackson McHenry's contrarian take on Vulture.
He sees the show as "obvious and sentimental storytelling", "Pixar-style manipulation, a dark hybrid of Up and Wall-E".
He's asking for the show to be more inventive somehow, that it's mimicing prestige television.
He can go suck an egg, in my humble opinion.
posted by ishmael at 2:57 PM on January 30, 2023 [11 favorites]
He sees the show as "obvious and sentimental storytelling", "Pixar-style manipulation, a dark hybrid of Up and Wall-E".
He's asking for the show to be more inventive somehow, that it's mimicing prestige television.
He can go suck an egg, in my humble opinion.
posted by ishmael at 2:57 PM on January 30, 2023 [11 favorites]
Has a TLoU sidequel be greenlite yet, one titled "Frank & Bill, Love and Cordyceps After The End of the World"?
No? Oh, then what about a 6 episode miniseries?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:08 PM on January 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
No? Oh, then what about a 6 episode miniseries?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:08 PM on January 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
OK, that was pretty good. Very good, in fact.
Couple of niggles:
1) Does anyone have a explanation for how those hand-held detectors work?
2) Bill & Frank's lawn looked freshly mown when Joel stepped outside to recover from seeing Tess's name in the note. It would have grown out a little by the time he and Ellie got there, surely?
Finally, I loved Ellie's demand that Joel take a shower too "because, seriously...". That's the moment their relationship gelled for me.
posted by Paul Slade at 3:10 PM on January 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
Couple of niggles:
1) Does anyone have a explanation for how those hand-held detectors work?
2) Bill & Frank's lawn looked freshly mown when Joel stepped outside to recover from seeing Tess's name in the note. It would have grown out a little by the time he and Ellie got there, surely?
Finally, I loved Ellie's demand that Joel take a shower too "because, seriously...". That's the moment their relationship gelled for me.
posted by Paul Slade at 3:10 PM on January 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
Another couple nitpicks: I thought they overdid the killer security fence scene. They could have had fewer raiders attacking the home. But the idea that he had rigged a Rube Goldberg level killer security fence that could kill multiple people on its own with a series of booby traps and um... flame throwers? just kind of exceeded my willing suspension of disbelief. Also, it was kinda stupid seeing him out in the open shooting at the intruders without any kind of cover. I know they set up the scene with Joel saying earlier that most gunfights end up with people missing a lot. But for a weapons expert survivalist, it looked pretty wacky to just be standing out in the open with a hunting rifle and a scope.
And the long closeups of the infected person in the cellar just looked like a bunch of rubber prosthetics on an actor's head. Because that's exactly what it is! Not sure what they were even going for in that scene. What were they trying to convey about Ellie in that scene? She stabs the thing because she realizes it's not human anymore? Was it establishing the idea that she will keep secrets from Joel? Proving to herself that she can handle these horrible monsters on her own? Maybe there's something down the road that explains it. The entire sequence felt clumsy.
posted by SoberHighland at 3:25 PM on January 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
And the long closeups of the infected person in the cellar just looked like a bunch of rubber prosthetics on an actor's head. Because that's exactly what it is! Not sure what they were even going for in that scene. What were they trying to convey about Ellie in that scene? She stabs the thing because she realizes it's not human anymore? Was it establishing the idea that she will keep secrets from Joel? Proving to herself that she can handle these horrible monsters on her own? Maybe there's something down the road that explains it. The entire sequence felt clumsy.
posted by SoberHighland at 3:25 PM on January 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
It's not that she stabs the thing in the basement, it's the way she looks at it, all calm and intense, as she picks at its face with her knife. *Then* she kills it.
posted by Mogur at 3:36 PM on January 30, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Mogur at 3:36 PM on January 30, 2023 [4 favorites]
Also, it was kinda stupid seeing him out in the open shooting at the intruders without any kind of cover.
In the middle of the night, I wouldn’t put much money down on my ability to see and shoot at a human-sized target through fire. The reason those people were still getting lit aflame is that they couldn’t tell where he was sniping them from so they had to try to run through the traps to get a bead on him.
posted by Etrigan at 3:41 PM on January 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
In the middle of the night, I wouldn’t put much money down on my ability to see and shoot at a human-sized target through fire. The reason those people were still getting lit aflame is that they couldn’t tell where he was sniping them from so they had to try to run through the traps to get a bead on him.
posted by Etrigan at 3:41 PM on January 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
And the long closeups of the infected person in the cellar just looked like a bunch of rubber prosthetics on an actor's head. Because that's exactly what it is!
I think it was highlighting the change in the tissue of the infected organism.
There is a matte, dull textural quality to the fungal body that is quite different from the translucent, vibrant surface of human skin, and this creature was more fungus than human.
Ellie confirms it when cutting open the skin to see a tiny rivulet of blood seep out, but mostly dried foliage underneath.
What were they trying to convey about Ellie in that scene?
They made it clear that she is willing to test whether or not the infected creature was still human, instead of putting it out of its misery right away.
posted by ishmael at 3:55 PM on January 30, 2023 [7 favorites]
I think it was highlighting the change in the tissue of the infected organism.
There is a matte, dull textural quality to the fungal body that is quite different from the translucent, vibrant surface of human skin, and this creature was more fungus than human.
Ellie confirms it when cutting open the skin to see a tiny rivulet of blood seep out, but mostly dried foliage underneath.
What were they trying to convey about Ellie in that scene?
They made it clear that she is willing to test whether or not the infected creature was still human, instead of putting it out of its misery right away.
posted by ishmael at 3:55 PM on January 30, 2023 [7 favorites]
Go back to the end of episode 2 and watch Ellie creeping around to get a better view of Joel bashing in his soldier buddy's face. She's almost smiling as she sees what he's doing. I think the show may be telegraphing a major potential for cruelty in Our Hero. Certainly growing up in an apocalypse could result in some surprising moments of no empathy.
posted by mediareport at 4:03 PM on January 30, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by mediareport at 4:03 PM on January 30, 2023 [4 favorites]
...and carving up the face of an infected person out of curiosity fits with that.
posted by mediareport at 4:04 PM on January 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by mediareport at 4:04 PM on January 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
1) Does anyone have a explanation for how those hand-held detectors work?
There have been a couple of times now where they've shown the infected have very little blood flow, and that the fungal growth is right below the skin - I suspect it is using UV or something to test how the skin reacts.
posted by nubs at 4:26 PM on January 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
There have been a couple of times now where they've shown the infected have very little blood flow, and that the fungal growth is right below the skin - I suspect it is using UV or something to test how the skin reacts.
posted by nubs at 4:26 PM on January 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
I too laughed at the “10 miles west” chyron. But they recovered nicely with the Cumberland Farms!
And people flinch when being tested by that device, so I think there is a needle involved, not just UV light.
posted by Frayed Knot at 5:07 PM on January 30, 2023 [4 favorites]
And people flinch when being tested by that device, so I think there is a needle involved, not just UV light.
posted by Frayed Knot at 5:07 PM on January 30, 2023 [4 favorites]
1) Does anyone have a explanation for how those hand-held detectors work?
There have been a couple of times now where they've shown the infected have very little blood flow, and that the fungal growth is right below the skin - I suspect it is using UV or something to test how the skin reacts.
There’s a little click - everyone winces, and it looked like there was a little mark on Frank’s neck when they pulled away the device. I’d assumed it’s a tine test - quick shallow skin prick.
posted by Silvery Fish at 6:36 PM on January 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
There have been a couple of times now where they've shown the infected have very little blood flow, and that the fungal growth is right below the skin - I suspect it is using UV or something to test how the skin reacts.
There’s a little click - everyone winces, and it looked like there was a little mark on Frank’s neck when they pulled away the device. I’d assumed it’s a tine test - quick shallow skin prick.
posted by Silvery Fish at 6:36 PM on January 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
Wow wow wow. I was watching this mostly for Pedro Pascal and the glimpses of Anna Torv, and because I loved Chernobyl so much. But I’m zombied out and couldn’t care less about video games (I actually was confused when the trailers for this came out because I didn’t understand why Pedro was in a story that was supposed to have these little capsule-shaped dudes that looked sort of like minions but with welders masks on their faces).
But I found the first couple episodes semi-interesting and thought I would keep watching, but this was just wonderful in a way that I could never have expected. I thought it was merely gonna be another example of Nick Offerman doing his right wing schtick and instead it was this tender love story, and then when they got to the last day, and the music from Arrival kicked in (On the Nature of Daylight), I was a total goner.
It takes a lot to make me sniffly, and I feel very weepy after watching this. I’m not surprised the homophobes are review bombing it in places around the Internet, but this is the first time in a long time a series like this had any meaningful content for me, so I guess I’m in for the rest of it . I’ll be watching this one again.
posted by kitten kaboodle at 6:46 PM on January 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
But I found the first couple episodes semi-interesting and thought I would keep watching, but this was just wonderful in a way that I could never have expected. I thought it was merely gonna be another example of Nick Offerman doing his right wing schtick and instead it was this tender love story, and then when they got to the last day, and the music from Arrival kicked in (On the Nature of Daylight), I was a total goner.
It takes a lot to make me sniffly, and I feel very weepy after watching this. I’m not surprised the homophobes are review bombing it in places around the Internet, but this is the first time in a long time a series like this had any meaningful content for me, so I guess I’m in for the rest of it . I’ll be watching this one again.
posted by kitten kaboodle at 6:46 PM on January 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
The trailer last week sure made the Arby's line sound like a meet cute but gosh, I was not expecting that, I’m still thinking about it.
Others have mentioned some of the many small lovely moments from the episode, but one other I loved is when Frank starts rummaging through Bill’s mother’s piano songbooks, and discards a few before finding the Linda Ronstadt and being like “ah yes, here’s yours.” Flirtation was for sure already well underway at that point, but I liked how it showed us Frank so effortlessly seeing Bill in ways Bill deeply wants (but is still afraid) to be seen.
Also, when Frank asked Bill to marry him, I kind of had a half-thought that they'd just never bothered before because it's the apocalypse and he's your person and who cares (see also: Joel comparing Tess to Frank and stumbling over what to call them before going with "if mine...") I didn't connect the dots till reading later that in the show's timeline, cordyceps beat Massachusetts marriage equality by a hot minute, and I'm guessing it just never happened for this world at all, which gave that tender exchange of rings on the last day of their lives a different nuance than I appreciated at the time.
Other stuff I liked: Ellie crowing over her Tampax prize, Joel's Dad Mode activating in the truck and then realizing he has to show her how to work the seatbelt, the little bit of a younger Tess who seemed less hard and cynical than the one who made it to 2023. Also, I'd never heard of Murray Bartlett or that Linda Ronstadt song, and really enjoyed both.
posted by jameaterblues at 7:31 PM on January 30, 2023 [16 favorites]
Others have mentioned some of the many small lovely moments from the episode, but one other I loved is when Frank starts rummaging through Bill’s mother’s piano songbooks, and discards a few before finding the Linda Ronstadt and being like “ah yes, here’s yours.” Flirtation was for sure already well underway at that point, but I liked how it showed us Frank so effortlessly seeing Bill in ways Bill deeply wants (but is still afraid) to be seen.
Also, when Frank asked Bill to marry him, I kind of had a half-thought that they'd just never bothered before because it's the apocalypse and he's your person and who cares (see also: Joel comparing Tess to Frank and stumbling over what to call them before going with "if mine...") I didn't connect the dots till reading later that in the show's timeline, cordyceps beat Massachusetts marriage equality by a hot minute, and I'm guessing it just never happened for this world at all, which gave that tender exchange of rings on the last day of their lives a different nuance than I appreciated at the time.
Other stuff I liked: Ellie crowing over her Tampax prize, Joel's Dad Mode activating in the truck and then realizing he has to show her how to work the seatbelt, the little bit of a younger Tess who seemed less hard and cynical than the one who made it to 2023. Also, I'd never heard of Murray Bartlett or that Linda Ronstadt song, and really enjoyed both.
posted by jameaterblues at 7:31 PM on January 30, 2023 [16 favorites]
<ctrl>f "bella" and "ramsey" - nada
Holy carp! Maybe I'm reading too much, but it's almost like the showrunners introduced Ramsey (Ellie) in a copy of their GoT role (Lyanna Mormont, Lady of Bear Island) with the express plan to break them out of their typecast this ep. Bravo.
Offerman. Bravo.
posted by porpoise at 7:49 PM on January 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
Holy carp! Maybe I'm reading too much, but it's almost like the showrunners introduced Ramsey (Ellie) in a copy of their GoT role (Lyanna Mormont, Lady of Bear Island) with the express plan to break them out of their typecast this ep. Bravo.
Offerman. Bravo.
posted by porpoise at 7:49 PM on January 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
Also, I'd never heard of Murray Bartlett
you must watch the first season of The White Lotus. That was my introduction to him and he was amazing. Such a very different role.
posted by mmascolino at 7:51 PM on January 30, 2023 [12 favorites]
you must watch the first season of The White Lotus. That was my introduction to him and he was amazing. Such a very different role.
posted by mmascolino at 7:51 PM on January 30, 2023 [12 favorites]
Murray Bartlett is also excellent in “Welcome to Chippendales” on Hulu.
posted by FallibleHuman at 8:13 PM on January 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by FallibleHuman at 8:13 PM on January 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
What a beautiful episode. Cried like a baby.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:13 PM on January 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:13 PM on January 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
I must also recommend Murray Bartlett in Looking.
posted by crossoverman at 8:29 PM on January 30, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by crossoverman at 8:29 PM on January 30, 2023 [4 favorites]
This episode wrecked me. Partly it was the beautiful love story. But it was also the fact that this beautiful (doomed) gay love story was shot in Alberta, and I swear to God that during the awful year of 2020 I hiked or visited every single location with my ex-fiancé. High River? Check. Sheep River Falls? Check. The fucking Ann and Sandy Cross Conservation Area? One of our last real conversations happened on that ridgeline. Priddis? Fish Creek? Yep yep yep. I’m going to go weep for a week.
posted by sixswitch at 8:50 PM on January 30, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by sixswitch at 8:50 PM on January 30, 2023 [10 favorites]
I thought it weird and distracting that Bill and Frank always had lights and other electricity on. Also, gasoline goes bad pretty quickly.
I'm usually the first person to get thrown out by details like that, but I'm kind of like eh, I'll handwave it--at this point, I almost feel like they've earned it; I hope it continues that way. Like at first, I was feeling the same way, and I also snorted when the infected dude who got shot by one of Bill's booby-traps absolutely perfectly set up for a head shot, as if only infected of that exact height would be wandering through the woods and could so be taken out like that. It's rare for me to want to handwave, but they've got me now.
posted by kitten kaboodle at 9:04 PM on January 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm usually the first person to get thrown out by details like that, but I'm kind of like eh, I'll handwave it--at this point, I almost feel like they've earned it; I hope it continues that way. Like at first, I was feeling the same way, and I also snorted when the infected dude who got shot by one of Bill's booby-traps absolutely perfectly set up for a head shot, as if only infected of that exact height would be wandering through the woods and could so be taken out like that. It's rare for me to want to handwave, but they've got me now.
posted by kitten kaboodle at 9:04 PM on January 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
ishmael: " He sees the show as "obvious and sentimental storytelling", "Pixar-style manipulation, a dark hybrid of Up and Wall-E"."
I read that article just now, and it's wrong on a lot of points, but I don't think this specific thing is an unfair criticism. This is the sort of story you stop to tell if you're trying to win an Emmy.
Now, if the storytelling lands, you don't care that it's swinging for the fences. But I also understand how someone can reflexively resent it when they're watching something that is intentionally trying to make them cry. Sometimes it fails, and the attempt feels mechanical, but then each person's heartstrings are wound slightly differently than anyone else's.
I am pretty cynical about Pixar movies, especially the tear-jerkers, but Coco had me sobbing into my girlfriend's shoulder in the goddamn theater, because I had pretty much lived that moment near the end with my Alzheimer's-riddled grandfather.
They definitely leaned into it in this episode, but I'm OK with that, because pretty much everything that wins an Emmy is also trying to win an Emmy. It doesn't land for McHenry, and that's fine, but I also think if he wasn't a TV writer he would've just shrugged and said “eh, not for me” instead of trying to write ten paragraphs and turn it into a Take™.
posted by savetheclocktower at 9:10 PM on January 30, 2023 [8 favorites]
I read that article just now, and it's wrong on a lot of points, but I don't think this specific thing is an unfair criticism. This is the sort of story you stop to tell if you're trying to win an Emmy.
Now, if the storytelling lands, you don't care that it's swinging for the fences. But I also understand how someone can reflexively resent it when they're watching something that is intentionally trying to make them cry. Sometimes it fails, and the attempt feels mechanical, but then each person's heartstrings are wound slightly differently than anyone else's.
I am pretty cynical about Pixar movies, especially the tear-jerkers, but Coco had me sobbing into my girlfriend's shoulder in the goddamn theater, because I had pretty much lived that moment near the end with my Alzheimer's-riddled grandfather.
They definitely leaned into it in this episode, but I'm OK with that, because pretty much everything that wins an Emmy is also trying to win an Emmy. It doesn't land for McHenry, and that's fine, but I also think if he wasn't a TV writer he would've just shrugged and said “eh, not for me” instead of trying to write ten paragraphs and turn it into a Take™.
posted by savetheclocktower at 9:10 PM on January 30, 2023 [8 favorites]
Earlier this week, the UK film critic Mark Kermode was asked on air what he thought "the message" of The Whale was. "I think the message of The Whale is 'Give me an Oscar'," he replied. There's an element of that here too but, as savetheclocktower says, it's easy to forgive in this case.
posted by Paul Slade at 11:46 PM on January 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Paul Slade at 11:46 PM on January 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
Man, I hope I never attain the levels of cynicism where my response to beautifully written and constructed piece of art is "Ugh, they just made this because they wanted people to like it.".
The truth is, it's actually pretty rare to see a thoughtful examination of the different kinds of love in a TV series, let along in the context of a zombie/end of the world story. We're *just three episodes* in, and we've had the love of a father for his daughter, Joel and - whatever Tess was I'm not sure ("mine" according to Joel), and here the whole span of love from its initial spark, to the deep down long lasting dutiful love of a couple commited to one another. Love between someone who knows how to give it and someone that's had previously been too scared to feel it.
Great show. And yes, this episode made me want to go and re-watch Station Eleven.
posted by chill at 4:12 AM on January 31, 2023 [35 favorites]
The truth is, it's actually pretty rare to see a thoughtful examination of the different kinds of love in a TV series, let along in the context of a zombie/end of the world story. We're *just three episodes* in, and we've had the love of a father for his daughter, Joel and - whatever Tess was I'm not sure ("mine" according to Joel), and here the whole span of love from its initial spark, to the deep down long lasting dutiful love of a couple commited to one another. Love between someone who knows how to give it and someone that's had previously been too scared to feel it.
Great show. And yes, this episode made me want to go and re-watch Station Eleven.
posted by chill at 4:12 AM on January 31, 2023 [35 favorites]
I thought it weird and distracting that Bill and Frank always had lights and other electricity on.
Early in the episode Bill goes to a natural gas substation to turn it on and then fires up his massive generator. I think we could ask how long the gas would hold out but if just one household is using it, probably quite a while.
I agree that in the context of the story it doesn’t matter so much, but I appreciate that they took the time to visually explain.
posted by jeoc at 5:42 AM on January 31, 2023 [11 favorites]
Early in the episode Bill goes to a natural gas substation to turn it on and then fires up his massive generator. I think we could ask how long the gas would hold out but if just one household is using it, probably quite a while.
I agree that in the context of the story it doesn’t matter so much, but I appreciate that they took the time to visually explain.
posted by jeoc at 5:42 AM on January 31, 2023 [11 favorites]
Man, I hope I never attain the levels of cynicism where my response to beautifully written and constructed piece of art is "Ugh, they just made this because they wanted people to like it.".
I'll admit that about half-way through this episode, I paused it, looked at the time remaining, and thought "We're going to spend an entire episode on the backstory of this couple" and it felt a little weird, because I'm used to my post-apocalyptic stories focusing on the danger and peril and grim beshittedness of everything; so this pause - only 3 episodes in - to tell a love story against that backdrop felt...indulgent. But it was well done and in the end this hour spent with two side characters who are dead by the time our two protagonists arrive winds up moving Joel's character arc forward.
In my head, the typical zombie post-apocalypse show would have given us a bit of the Bill and Frank backstory, had Joel and Ellie arrive, with Joel thinking he can hand Ellie off and go back to Boston or whatever. This was supposed to be Frodo getting to Rivendell, where at a minimum there's a chance to catch one's breath and plan the next step. Of course, in that version of the story, everyone has a nice dinner, the problem of Ellie is discussed, no solution is apparent, that night the infected or raiders get in somehow, and as the compound falls with grim deaths for Frank and Bill, Joel and Ellie escape with what they need to continue. Instead, we get a deep history of Frank and Bill and their sanctuary, which is left intact, Frank and Bill having decided that there is no world for them without each other, and Joel has his purpose explained to him in a letter from someone who doesn't know the situation, but still knows the truth.
At this point, I don't consider Last of Us to be "prestige TV" - whatever that label means - but it is taking the base idea of "grim loner escorts the hope for a cure through the zombie wasteland" and swinging for the fences with it, and I appreciate it for that. If nothing else, seeing Offerman and Bartlett do what they did this episode was amazing.
posted by nubs at 7:14 AM on January 31, 2023 [9 favorites]
I'll admit that about half-way through this episode, I paused it, looked at the time remaining, and thought "We're going to spend an entire episode on the backstory of this couple" and it felt a little weird, because I'm used to my post-apocalyptic stories focusing on the danger and peril and grim beshittedness of everything; so this pause - only 3 episodes in - to tell a love story against that backdrop felt...indulgent. But it was well done and in the end this hour spent with two side characters who are dead by the time our two protagonists arrive winds up moving Joel's character arc forward.
In my head, the typical zombie post-apocalypse show would have given us a bit of the Bill and Frank backstory, had Joel and Ellie arrive, with Joel thinking he can hand Ellie off and go back to Boston or whatever. This was supposed to be Frodo getting to Rivendell, where at a minimum there's a chance to catch one's breath and plan the next step. Of course, in that version of the story, everyone has a nice dinner, the problem of Ellie is discussed, no solution is apparent, that night the infected or raiders get in somehow, and as the compound falls with grim deaths for Frank and Bill, Joel and Ellie escape with what they need to continue. Instead, we get a deep history of Frank and Bill and their sanctuary, which is left intact, Frank and Bill having decided that there is no world for them without each other, and Joel has his purpose explained to him in a letter from someone who doesn't know the situation, but still knows the truth.
At this point, I don't consider Last of Us to be "prestige TV" - whatever that label means - but it is taking the base idea of "grim loner escorts the hope for a cure through the zombie wasteland" and swinging for the fences with it, and I appreciate it for that. If nothing else, seeing Offerman and Bartlett do what they did this episode was amazing.
posted by nubs at 7:14 AM on January 31, 2023 [9 favorites]
I actually was confused when the trailers for this came out because I didn’t understand why Pedro was in a story that was supposed to have these little capsule-shaped dudes that looked sort of like minions but with welders masks on their faces ...
Those guys are from Among Us. There's already been an Among Us movie, and it's called The Thing, although probably at some point they will cash in by making something animated for kids.
I loved this. Except for the geography, but, well, you're gonna get that. I understand why other people might not have loved it, and that's fine. I don't think it's the worst thing in the world if creatives at this level are motivated by awards, by changing their career arc, or whatever they're blaming here. Of course, it can look ridiculous once you know about it, like DiCaprio begriming himself in the wild to get himself an Oscar for The Revenant (or at least that was what everybody said at the time), which gave it a sort of hollow meta feel I didn't care for. But at least it's worth it to them to try. I remember when TV had no higher goals than the occasional episode about keeping kids off drugs.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:23 AM on January 31, 2023 [3 favorites]
Those guys are from Among Us. There's already been an Among Us movie, and it's called The Thing, although probably at some point they will cash in by making something animated for kids.
I loved this. Except for the geography, but, well, you're gonna get that. I understand why other people might not have loved it, and that's fine. I don't think it's the worst thing in the world if creatives at this level are motivated by awards, by changing their career arc, or whatever they're blaming here. Of course, it can look ridiculous once you know about it, like DiCaprio begriming himself in the wild to get himself an Oscar for The Revenant (or at least that was what everybody said at the time), which gave it a sort of hollow meta feel I didn't care for. But at least it's worth it to them to try. I remember when TV had no higher goals than the occasional episode about keeping kids off drugs.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:23 AM on January 31, 2023 [3 favorites]
I read that article just now, and it's wrong on a lot of points, but I don't think this specific thing is an unfair criticism.
I can see where you're coming from.
I'm sorry if I was a bit pat in my response to McHenry before, but to be honest, I think he was missing the point.
He wanted to argue against the idea of sentimentality in the abstract, that this that this episode was a symptom of a larger problem in movies and tv. He had an expectation of what an apocalyptic show should be and dismissed this episode as a complete departure that was gunning for an emmy.
But for me it felt woven into the fabric of the world of this show. People are desperately attempting to survive and find meaning in a harsh world. Then when they find love, this tiny nugget of hope, something that they considered nigh impossible, it seems miraculous, and they are willing to sacrifice anything and everything to protect it.
I see echoes of this in the rest of the show, from Marlene to Joel to Tess.
This particular episode helped flesh out the emotional point of view of the people who live in this world, and we can understand why they react how they react. I can sense a bond stirring between Joel and Ellie, and I can also palpably feel his hesitation because of his perceived failures regarding those he has loved, and the future consequences that he might have to deal with if he ever loves again.
This episode, I would argue, is an essential part of this show.
posted by ishmael at 7:53 AM on January 31, 2023 [11 favorites]
I can see where you're coming from.
I'm sorry if I was a bit pat in my response to McHenry before, but to be honest, I think he was missing the point.
He wanted to argue against the idea of sentimentality in the abstract, that this that this episode was a symptom of a larger problem in movies and tv. He had an expectation of what an apocalyptic show should be and dismissed this episode as a complete departure that was gunning for an emmy.
But for me it felt woven into the fabric of the world of this show. People are desperately attempting to survive and find meaning in a harsh world. Then when they find love, this tiny nugget of hope, something that they considered nigh impossible, it seems miraculous, and they are willing to sacrifice anything and everything to protect it.
I see echoes of this in the rest of the show, from Marlene to Joel to Tess.
This particular episode helped flesh out the emotional point of view of the people who live in this world, and we can understand why they react how they react. I can sense a bond stirring between Joel and Ellie, and I can also palpably feel his hesitation because of his perceived failures regarding those he has loved, and the future consequences that he might have to deal with if he ever loves again.
This episode, I would argue, is an essential part of this show.
posted by ishmael at 7:53 AM on January 31, 2023 [11 favorites]
...He had an expectation of what an apocalyptic show should be and dismissed this episode...
If this is his job - reviewing media, then he is not very good at it.
Because this is not the first apocalyptic show that dives into love, grief and the relationships aound and between them - just two examples (also HBO shows) include;
"The Leftovers"
"Station Eleven"
posted by rozcakj at 8:22 AM on January 31, 2023 [6 favorites]
If this is his job - reviewing media, then he is not very good at it.
Because this is not the first apocalyptic show that dives into love, grief and the relationships aound and between them - just two examples (also HBO shows) include;
"The Leftovers"
"Station Eleven"
posted by rozcakj at 8:22 AM on January 31, 2023 [6 favorites]
People may appreciate this: I've heard this described as "this show's San Junipero episode".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:31 AM on January 31, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:31 AM on January 31, 2023 [6 favorites]
incidentally, because I keep being haunted by it, I think that if this whole main story had been about something less compelling, we would be talking about the shot where the skeletons are in the bright print rags and then there's a wipe back to 2003 and you see the mother and baby and ... Jesus, that was fierce.
posted by Countess Elena at 9:27 AM on January 31, 2023 [17 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 9:27 AM on January 31, 2023 [17 favorites]
the shot where the skeletons are in the bright print rags and then there's a wipe back to 2003 and you see the mother and baby and ... Jesus, that was fierce.
Total gut punch for me too. Devastating.
posted by ishmael at 9:32 AM on January 31, 2023 [6 favorites]
Total gut punch for me too. Devastating.
posted by ishmael at 9:32 AM on January 31, 2023 [6 favorites]
I didn't realize it was Murray Bartlett despite just having watched S1 of White Lotus (he is great in both)
what a beautiful episode and so well done (I keep having to remind myself this is based on a game. how did they give it so much depth and heart and scariness???) I was so impressed by everything about this.
this gave me feels like The Magicians S3 A Life in the Day
posted by supermedusa at 9:34 AM on January 31, 2023 [4 favorites]
what a beautiful episode and so well done (I keep having to remind myself this is based on a game. how did they give it so much depth and heart and scariness???) I was so impressed by everything about this.
this gave me feels like The Magicians S3 A Life in the Day
posted by supermedusa at 9:34 AM on January 31, 2023 [4 favorites]
(I keep having to remind myself this is based on a game. how did they give it so much depth and heart and scariness???)
The game was considered a breakthrough gaming+storytelling combination of media- I picked it up years after release, because of all the continued buzz around the game. While I never got far - because, as was described in this episode, shooting at things reliably is just not my jam - it was an intense experience for the couple of hours I put into it.
posted by rozcakj at 10:37 AM on January 31, 2023 [2 favorites]
The game was considered a breakthrough gaming+storytelling combination of media- I picked it up years after release, because of all the continued buzz around the game. While I never got far - because, as was described in this episode, shooting at things reliably is just not my jam - it was an intense experience for the couple of hours I put into it.
posted by rozcakj at 10:37 AM on January 31, 2023 [2 favorites]
Sigh - so, I read the article, and he does mention "The Leftovers" and "Station Eleven" plus "The Magicians" episode mentioned above, and the amazing one from "MythicQuest" - so, he is not bad at his job.
However - I continue to disagree with his premise and criticisms. Art is subjective, like love and loss - and there is nothing wrong with different media exploring that in their own ways. If anything, this codified something that was "hinted at" within the game, but not explicitly stated AFAIK.
posted by rozcakj at 10:58 AM on January 31, 2023 [2 favorites]
However - I continue to disagree with his premise and criticisms. Art is subjective, like love and loss - and there is nothing wrong with different media exploring that in their own ways. If anything, this codified something that was "hinted at" within the game, but not explicitly stated AFAIK.
posted by rozcakj at 10:58 AM on January 31, 2023 [2 favorites]
I can kinda see an argument that they hadn't really earned this sort of ancillary-character-flashback thing yet (unless that's going to be a running motif -- like, a couple of Pedro-and-Bella-in-2023-focused episodes, then a side-quest explaining how this person or place or thing happened to be where they needed it when they needed it), but... it still seems pretty sour to turn on this particular version of that.
posted by Etrigan at 11:45 AM on January 31, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 11:45 AM on January 31, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm reminded of The Wire and how its first major cause was the disappearance of a little girl. The case was never solved and that cast a notable shadow over some of the characters in the series, shaping them and their decisions for years afterwards.
This episode seems like it will do much of the same for Joel, and therefore Ellie, and it was very well done.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:02 PM on January 31, 2023 [3 favorites]
This episode seems like it will do much of the same for Joel, and therefore Ellie, and it was very well done.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:02 PM on January 31, 2023 [3 favorites]
I remember when TV had no higher goals than the occasional episode about keeping kids off drugs.
I mean, that wasn't incidental and it wasn't organic. The US Government literally paid networks to include messages like that in lieu of paid PSA time the government had paid for.
posted by absalom at 12:06 PM on January 31, 2023 [3 favorites]
I mean, that wasn't incidental and it wasn't organic. The US Government literally paid networks to include messages like that in lieu of paid PSA time the government had paid for.
posted by absalom at 12:06 PM on January 31, 2023 [3 favorites]
I'm reminded of The Wire and how its first major cause was the disappearance of a little girl.
I just rewatched the wire and I don’t remember this at all.
But I can’t argue that this did an elegant job of both being a beautiful story and creating some character growth for our main characters.
posted by jeoc at 12:15 PM on January 31, 2023
I just rewatched the wire and I don’t remember this at all.
But I can’t argue that this did an elegant job of both being a beautiful story and creating some character growth for our main characters.
posted by jeoc at 12:15 PM on January 31, 2023
I'm reminded of The Wire and how its first major cause was the disappearance of a little girl.
I just rewatched the wire and I don’t remember this at all.
I believe this happens in Homicide rather than The Wire.
I never made it to Bill in the game, but I went into this episode knowing from the previews that this episode was going to tug at my heartstrings. I thought that foreknowledge would armor me from being hit too hard in the feels.
My armor was useless.
As I've let my thoughts about the episode marinate, I've come to the conclusion that what made this such an amazing hour (or so) of television was that through the writing and through Offerman 's and Bartlett's S-tier performances, we were invited to cherish Frank and Bill's transformative love right along with Frank and Bill.
I don't know if this show is going to keep it up and stick the landing, but I hope this episode at least is remembered and talked about for years to come.
posted by lord_wolf at 1:07 PM on January 31, 2023 [4 favorites]
I just rewatched the wire and I don’t remember this at all.
I believe this happens in Homicide rather than The Wire.
I never made it to Bill in the game, but I went into this episode knowing from the previews that this episode was going to tug at my heartstrings. I thought that foreknowledge would armor me from being hit too hard in the feels.
My armor was useless.
As I've let my thoughts about the episode marinate, I've come to the conclusion that what made this such an amazing hour (or so) of television was that through the writing and through Offerman 's and Bartlett's S-tier performances, we were invited to cherish Frank and Bill's transformative love right along with Frank and Bill.
I don't know if this show is going to keep it up and stick the landing, but I hope this episode at least is remembered and talked about for years to come.
posted by lord_wolf at 1:07 PM on January 31, 2023 [4 favorites]
I believe this happens in Homicide rather than The Wire.
D’oh, thanks for the correction, you’re right!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:17 PM on January 31, 2023 [3 favorites]
D’oh, thanks for the correction, you’re right!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:17 PM on January 31, 2023 [3 favorites]
How ‘The Last of Us’ did Bill and Frank justice – and impressed many LGBTQ fans [CNN / via]
posted by ellieBOA at 3:07 PM on January 31, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by ellieBOA at 3:07 PM on January 31, 2023 [3 favorites]
One more moment that stuck with me- the remains of the last meal of Bill and Frank, now covered in dust that Frank would never have allowed, overgrown with a different kind of fungus and succumbing in a quiet way.
posted by ishmael at 5:28 PM on January 31, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by ishmael at 5:28 PM on January 31, 2023 [2 favorites]
Also, the shirt Joel is wearing after his shower is one of Frank's shirts.
posted by ishmael at 5:45 PM on January 31, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by ishmael at 5:45 PM on January 31, 2023 [2 favorites]
Spoilers for Episode 3.
Single link Tik Tok warning. Don't yell at Frank.
posted by ishmael at 6:47 PM on January 31, 2023 [7 favorites]
Single link Tik Tok warning. Don't yell at Frank.
posted by ishmael at 6:47 PM on January 31, 2023 [7 favorites]
Max Richter strikes again.
I love the closing shot of the open window. I figured they would pan down to Bill and Frank’s bodies, but this was far better.
posted by hototogisu at 2:25 AM on February 1, 2023 [11 favorites]
I love the closing shot of the open window. I figured they would pan down to Bill and Frank’s bodies, but this was far better.
posted by hototogisu at 2:25 AM on February 1, 2023 [11 favorites]
It was a beautiful shot but I couldn’t enjoy it as I was going, please stop panning back!!
posted by ellieBOA at 5:36 AM on February 1, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by ellieBOA at 5:36 AM on February 1, 2023 [10 favorites]
I cried. And not because of the sadness but because finally in my 50s I can see my stories being told and can see all the different ways that men can and do love each other being represented and the fact that these were two men had zero to do with anything in the story.
Fuck if this was around in the 80s when I needed it instead of AIDS panic everywhere.
posted by archimago at 6:22 AM on February 1, 2023 [29 favorites]
Fuck if this was around in the 80s when I needed it instead of AIDS panic everywhere.
posted by archimago at 6:22 AM on February 1, 2023 [29 favorites]
What a remarkably lovely episode. Unfortunately I had the basic fact of the relationship spoiled before watching it, so there was no tension in those first few minutes. But that didn't rob this episode of its sweetness.
Like archimagao I appreciated the gay representation of this. Not least because the men are, like me, 50ish and bearish. Also Offerman and Bartlett have such great chemistry together. I just wish they had time to fill in more of Frank's story. Bill is well sketched and as a survivalist it seems simple that he has no social fabric from the before time. But who is Frank? Why is he going to Boston? We get some of his personality in his fast friendship with Tess and it was certainly enough for the story. I just wanted more!
I also thought it was interesting that Bill seemed not to be an out gay man. Never had sex with a man before but clearly lonely and wanting the contact. (Also soulful Linda Rondstadt recitation; clearly he wasn't all macho survivalist.) I enjoyed how he comes to a full loving relationship with Frank and thought it was a smart choice to skip most of that, just flash forward a few years after they met. And then flash forward again and finally cap it all off with a deathbed marriage, oh my goodness that was a lot.
Finally I appreciated the complicated ways this show helped define Elle and Joel better. Joel's odd not-friendship with Bill, their mutual recognition of their roles as protectors. Elle's frank acceptance of whatever was thrown her way, mostly being blase but even her being deeply affected by the final letter. Just a lot of emotional nuance, totally transcending what we all feared when we heard "zombie video game TV show". (Even if it was a particularly good, narrative-rich game.) This show seems like it was written by people who enjoyed the Walking Dead but were like "We can do better, and kinder."
posted by Nelson at 7:04 AM on February 1, 2023 [6 favorites]
Like archimagao I appreciated the gay representation of this. Not least because the men are, like me, 50ish and bearish. Also Offerman and Bartlett have such great chemistry together. I just wish they had time to fill in more of Frank's story. Bill is well sketched and as a survivalist it seems simple that he has no social fabric from the before time. But who is Frank? Why is he going to Boston? We get some of his personality in his fast friendship with Tess and it was certainly enough for the story. I just wanted more!
I also thought it was interesting that Bill seemed not to be an out gay man. Never had sex with a man before but clearly lonely and wanting the contact. (Also soulful Linda Rondstadt recitation; clearly he wasn't all macho survivalist.) I enjoyed how he comes to a full loving relationship with Frank and thought it was a smart choice to skip most of that, just flash forward a few years after they met. And then flash forward again and finally cap it all off with a deathbed marriage, oh my goodness that was a lot.
Finally I appreciated the complicated ways this show helped define Elle and Joel better. Joel's odd not-friendship with Bill, their mutual recognition of their roles as protectors. Elle's frank acceptance of whatever was thrown her way, mostly being blase but even her being deeply affected by the final letter. Just a lot of emotional nuance, totally transcending what we all feared when we heard "zombie video game TV show". (Even if it was a particularly good, narrative-rich game.) This show seems like it was written by people who enjoyed the Walking Dead but were like "We can do better, and kinder."
posted by Nelson at 7:04 AM on February 1, 2023 [6 favorites]
I too was glad they did not pan to the bodies but that is just one more example of the unexpected subtleties of this episode. when we see the flashback of the town people being loaded into the military truck and we know they will wind up a pile of skeletons in a ditch, I thought they were going to show us that scene, but they didn't. they didn't need to, we knew what was going to happen. nice to see choices to avoid wallowing in the worst of the carnage and despair sometimes. focusing on the quiet beauty of unexpected love.
posted by supermedusa at 9:34 AM on February 1, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by supermedusa at 9:34 AM on February 1, 2023 [9 favorites]
two men had zero to do with anything in the story
(for context, the above appeared in a positive comment, and was not slagging the show, nevertheless...)
They had everything to do with the story, maybe only tangentially in terms of plot, but absolutely critically in terms of theme. The Last of Us is setting up its internal framework pretty clearly and the entire story is underpinned by "Saving who you can"/"Saving who matters." This was that theme delivered in a sidebar, sure, but in a very moving way that laid bare the heart of the show.
This is why I have such high hopes for this one. After years of Robert Kirkman and company beating me about the head and neck with a stick marked "MAN IS THE WORST MONSTER," someone is not only staking out a fresher take on the post-apocalypse, but it's one with elements of idealism and optimism weaved in.
No, no, no. Frank and Bill were very important to the show. Critical. Their story was a statement of philosophy.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:15 AM on February 1, 2023 [12 favorites]
(for context, the above appeared in a positive comment, and was not slagging the show, nevertheless...)
They had everything to do with the story, maybe only tangentially in terms of plot, but absolutely critically in terms of theme. The Last of Us is setting up its internal framework pretty clearly and the entire story is underpinned by "Saving who you can"/"Saving who matters." This was that theme delivered in a sidebar, sure, but in a very moving way that laid bare the heart of the show.
This is why I have such high hopes for this one. After years of Robert Kirkman and company beating me about the head and neck with a stick marked "MAN IS THE WORST MONSTER," someone is not only staking out a fresher take on the post-apocalypse, but it's one with elements of idealism and optimism weaved in.
No, no, no. Frank and Bill were very important to the show. Critical. Their story was a statement of philosophy.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:15 AM on February 1, 2023 [12 favorites]
I lost it big time during this ep and had just about recovered when they gave us the final shot, pulling away from the open window and just for a second I too was afraid that they were going to show us the bodies . But they didn't...they were respecting Bill's last request.
It also felt we were Bill and Frank's spirits watching Joel and Ellie pull away in that truck. The last job was done - now they could rest, together, forever.
And I lost it again.
(and again while typing this. Jesus Christ, what has this show done to me ?)
posted by Mogur at 12:27 PM on February 1, 2023 [14 favorites]
It also felt we were Bill and Frank's spirits watching Joel and Ellie pull away in that truck. The last job was done - now they could rest, together, forever.
And I lost it again.
(and again while typing this. Jesus Christ, what has this show done to me ?)
posted by Mogur at 12:27 PM on February 1, 2023 [14 favorites]
I feel ya, Mogur. Check out that tiktok I linked above if you need a transitional chuckle out of weeping at random.
posted by ishmael at 1:52 PM on February 1, 2023
posted by ishmael at 1:52 PM on February 1, 2023
DirtyOldTown, you missed the vital part of that sentence:
the fact that these were two men had zero to do with anything in the story.
It was a comment about how this representation felt so natural and there was no othering of them. It wasn't a Very Special Episode. This same story could have been a heterosexual couple and yet it was two men and everyone took that in their stride - the characters and the creators.
posted by crossoverman at 2:03 PM on February 1, 2023 [5 favorites]
the fact that these were two men had zero to do with anything in the story.
It was a comment about how this representation felt so natural and there was no othering of them. It wasn't a Very Special Episode. This same story could have been a heterosexual couple and yet it was two men and everyone took that in their stride - the characters and the creators.
posted by crossoverman at 2:03 PM on February 1, 2023 [5 favorites]
While I agree that was the intent of the originally quoted comment, one thing I liked about Frank & Bill is they felt like a gay couple, two men. Not like a heterosexual couple with one gender swapped. A lot of the way they related felt gendered in ways that are similar to my experience as a gay man and what I see in other gay male couples. Nothing overt, and certainly nothing bad. Just the writing and acting felt authentically gay to me and not just a token representation.
FWIW the actor Murray Bartlett is gay and Offerman is not. They both felt authentic to me although I think it was Bartlett who was taking more of the lead in gay-coded language and actions. The script was written that way, maybe also playing to Bartlett's strengths.
(I deliberately avoided specific examples but I'll throw one out; the way that Frank argues with Bill about mowing the lawns and fixing up the houses and shops. He's playing housekeeping and socializing roles that are traditionally "the woman's role" in American society but in a way that feels like a gay man doing them. Standing his ground in a male way while taking on domestic roles. I acknowledge that all this reading is rooted in stereotypes and actual people have a diverse set of roles regardless of gender.)
posted by Nelson at 2:13 PM on February 1, 2023 [11 favorites]
FWIW the actor Murray Bartlett is gay and Offerman is not. They both felt authentic to me although I think it was Bartlett who was taking more of the lead in gay-coded language and actions. The script was written that way, maybe also playing to Bartlett's strengths.
(I deliberately avoided specific examples but I'll throw one out; the way that Frank argues with Bill about mowing the lawns and fixing up the houses and shops. He's playing housekeeping and socializing roles that are traditionally "the woman's role" in American society but in a way that feels like a gay man doing them. Standing his ground in a male way while taking on domestic roles. I acknowledge that all this reading is rooted in stereotypes and actual people have a diverse set of roles regardless of gender.)
posted by Nelson at 2:13 PM on February 1, 2023 [11 favorites]
I think one of my favorite elements of this episode is that it reminded me that even in the worst of times, there are ordinary joys. They can fall between the trauma and fear, horrible loss and violence. But the horror isn't constant. Life goes on, we move forward, and there are moments of love, and moments of awe, like Elle's first ride in a space ship or the strawberry patch.
"Which gun?"
"It was one of the little ones."
posted by Stanczyk at 3:28 PM on February 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
"Which gun?"
"It was one of the little ones."
posted by Stanczyk at 3:28 PM on February 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
one thing I liked about Frank & Bill is they felt like a gay couple, two men.
Oh yes, I also agree with this.
posted by crossoverman at 5:21 PM on February 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
Oh yes, I also agree with this.
posted by crossoverman at 5:21 PM on February 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
Oof, just saw Jackson McHenry's contrarian take on Vulture.It's a valid question to ask, but yeah he's just being a wet blanket buzzkill here. The question of what is "real" prestige television and what is Pixar/Disney-style emotional engineering is very interesting to ask, but it's sort of moot when modern TV has been doing this for so long. I remember when the U.S. House of Cards came out and A.V. Club was deriding it as turning prestige television into a genre. We're a decade out from that time now, everything is prestige.
He sees the show as "obvious and sentimental storytelling", "Pixar-style manipulation, a dark hybrid of Up and Wall-E".
He's asking for the show to be more inventive somehow, that it's mimicing prestige television.
As interesting as it is to split hairs, I cannot condone that sort of criticism of this show, because I like it a lot so far, and I'm pretty sure those arguments can also be weaponized against Andor, another application of prestige drama storytelling for a piece of nerd pop culture. You get too into the weeds about what's organic prestige and what's emotional engineering and all you're left with is The Wire, Mad Men, and Breaking Bad.
posted by Apocryphon at 5:23 PM on February 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
I am pretty cynical about Pixar movies
I think in the case of Pixar movies, who a genre unto themselves, or Oscarbait like The Whale, is there's an element of predicability, which makes them "old!!!!1111" and thus deridable as emotional manipulation in search of awards. They're unoriginal, the audience has seen it before.
I wasn't expecting this episode of heartfelt gut-wrenching human drama amidst a post-apocalyptic landscape. This story completely snuck up on me. And you're really not sure what direction it's going to go in, the characters felt unlikely enough. So I think on the basis of originality, of unpredictability, this episode really lands. It's not formulaic.
"We're going to spend an entire episode on the backstory of this couple" and it felt a little weird, because I'm used to my post-apocalyptic stories focusing on the danger and peril and grim beshittedness of everything
This is exactly the type of anthology-based slices of life storytelling that World War Z by Max Brooks offered, except with different emotions, and that WWZ by Brad Pitt completely bungles in failing to capture.
There's plenty of post-apocalyptic zombie adventure or cynical survival drama (like The Walking Dead) out there. It's nice that this show tried to capture some different emotions.
posted by Apocryphon at 5:39 PM on February 1, 2023 [10 favorites]
I think in the case of Pixar movies, who a genre unto themselves, or Oscarbait like The Whale, is there's an element of predicability, which makes them "old!!!!1111" and thus deridable as emotional manipulation in search of awards. They're unoriginal, the audience has seen it before.
I wasn't expecting this episode of heartfelt gut-wrenching human drama amidst a post-apocalyptic landscape. This story completely snuck up on me. And you're really not sure what direction it's going to go in, the characters felt unlikely enough. So I think on the basis of originality, of unpredictability, this episode really lands. It's not formulaic.
"We're going to spend an entire episode on the backstory of this couple" and it felt a little weird, because I'm used to my post-apocalyptic stories focusing on the danger and peril and grim beshittedness of everything
This is exactly the type of anthology-based slices of life storytelling that World War Z by Max Brooks offered, except with different emotions, and that WWZ by Brad Pitt completely bungles in failing to capture.
There's plenty of post-apocalyptic zombie adventure or cynical survival drama (like The Walking Dead) out there. It's nice that this show tried to capture some different emotions.
posted by Apocryphon at 5:39 PM on February 1, 2023 [10 favorites]
I don't disagree with a lot of specific criticisms of that article. The vague ones, not so much:
Like, if you're stealing from the first part of Up and Wall-E's post apocalyptic romance, those are the best parts of those movies to steal from. IMHO Bad Pixar is using a big fun clever wacky action sequence to resolve things, which afterwards feels like a narrative copout. (Though even then, "fun and clever" is still something.)
And cries of manipulation are a little funny because all entertainment is trying to manipulate all the time! When it comes to flavors of manipulation, I do think this episode was a little schmaltzy -- but it worked, so..
posted by fleacircus at 8:11 PM on February 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
Like, if you're stealing from the first part of Up and Wall-E's post apocalyptic romance, those are the best parts of those movies to steal from. IMHO Bad Pixar is using a big fun clever wacky action sequence to resolve things, which afterwards feels like a narrative copout. (Though even then, "fun and clever" is still something.)
And cries of manipulation are a little funny because all entertainment is trying to manipulate all the time! When it comes to flavors of manipulation, I do think this episode was a little schmaltzy -- but it worked, so..
posted by fleacircus at 8:11 PM on February 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
Nelson, you might enjoy the Tom & Lorenzo recap/essay linked above; they discuss the episode's portrayal of middle-aged gay life in a fun, interesting way. A sample:
But there was something lip-quiveringly, eye-wateringly delightful to us watching two middle-aged gay men survive the apocalypse by singing Linda Ronstadt songs, arguing about paint colors, taking care of the house, and apologizing for getting old faster than the other one. In other words, with this episode, we watched ourselves thriving at the end of the world, an image so foreign to us that we never really noticed its glaring absence in our imaginations....Do we need to see ourselves – specifically us – in stories like these? We might have said no or not really before this, but we don’t think we can quite describe the feeling of seeing two middle-aged gay men in love, in the apocalypse, giggling over strawberries. Because yes, that is absolutely something we would do...
Bartlett is hilarious portraying Frank’s gleeful shock at the dinner prepared for him. It’s all a little dance. Bill turns the plate for the correct presentation. Frank compliments Bill as the type of man who knows how to pair wine. Bitch, this is how middle-aged gay men flirt....Offerman is astounding as Bill opens up to Frank’s touch. The way they grip each other tightly as they realize that they found one another. In all of this. We laughed when Frank broke away from the kiss to ask Bill’s name, which is, shall we say, a not uncommon experience in gay male socializing...But we can’t even tell you how hard and how loudly we laughed when this scene of exploratory tenderness and vulnerability cut to an “Oh, FUCK YOU” and a “Three Years Later” title card. Ah, there we are. There’s us. That it turned out to be an argument over budgeting and redecorating could not have been more perfect.
posted by mediareport at 8:24 PM on February 1, 2023 [18 favorites]
But there was something lip-quiveringly, eye-wateringly delightful to us watching two middle-aged gay men survive the apocalypse by singing Linda Ronstadt songs, arguing about paint colors, taking care of the house, and apologizing for getting old faster than the other one. In other words, with this episode, we watched ourselves thriving at the end of the world, an image so foreign to us that we never really noticed its glaring absence in our imaginations....Do we need to see ourselves – specifically us – in stories like these? We might have said no or not really before this, but we don’t think we can quite describe the feeling of seeing two middle-aged gay men in love, in the apocalypse, giggling over strawberries. Because yes, that is absolutely something we would do...
Bartlett is hilarious portraying Frank’s gleeful shock at the dinner prepared for him. It’s all a little dance. Bill turns the plate for the correct presentation. Frank compliments Bill as the type of man who knows how to pair wine. Bitch, this is how middle-aged gay men flirt....Offerman is astounding as Bill opens up to Frank’s touch. The way they grip each other tightly as they realize that they found one another. In all of this. We laughed when Frank broke away from the kiss to ask Bill’s name, which is, shall we say, a not uncommon experience in gay male socializing...But we can’t even tell you how hard and how loudly we laughed when this scene of exploratory tenderness and vulnerability cut to an “Oh, FUCK YOU” and a “Three Years Later” title card. Ah, there we are. There’s us. That it turned out to be an argument over budgeting and redecorating could not have been more perfect.
posted by mediareport at 8:24 PM on February 1, 2023 [18 favorites]
Ah, gotcha crossoverman. I did misread that. I think we probably agree more than I initially understood.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:32 PM on February 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:32 PM on February 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
It's a valid question to ask… everything is prestige
You know it’s interesting, I’ve cancelled Netflix (and similar) because there’s nothing on that service I want to watch. I tried a few drama series lately and just stopped pretty quick because they’re all starting to feel like “prestige by numbers” or “Netflix binge show by numbers”.
I’ve kept NowTV purely as it has The Last of Us. Because, sure, it uses the grammar of prestige TV (because of the era in which it is made) but it uses the current language of tv in an interesting way to tell an interesting story with interesting characters and themes.
posted by chill at 11:33 PM on February 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
You know it’s interesting, I’ve cancelled Netflix (and similar) because there’s nothing on that service I want to watch. I tried a few drama series lately and just stopped pretty quick because they’re all starting to feel like “prestige by numbers” or “Netflix binge show by numbers”.
I’ve kept NowTV purely as it has The Last of Us. Because, sure, it uses the grammar of prestige TV (because of the era in which it is made) but it uses the current language of tv in an interesting way to tell an interesting story with interesting characters and themes.
posted by chill at 11:33 PM on February 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
prestige
For me? (at least) $$ (as opposed to $$$+) and trust in the director - without having outside obligations.
And the excess in production expenditures works (for the-right-people).
(unfortunately)
posted by porpoise at 12:12 AM on February 2, 2023
For me? (at least) $$ (as opposed to $$$+) and trust in the director - without having outside obligations.
And the excess in production expenditures works (for the-right-people).
(unfortunately)
posted by porpoise at 12:12 AM on February 2, 2023
Damn good episode.
posted by oldnumberseven at 5:03 AM on February 2, 2023
posted by oldnumberseven at 5:03 AM on February 2, 2023
For all discussing the (delightful) casting of Nick Offerman, a straight actor cast in a gay role: Per the show's official podcast, he was not the director's first choice. That was Con O'Neill, who was busy filming the equally delightful Our Flag Means Death.
They talked about how representation matters, and the show's creator really intended 2 gay actors to play these characters because of the nuance and subtleties in small behaviors that they wanted viewers to see as totally authentic between Frank and Bill.
However, someone suggested Offerman as an alternative choice for Bill's role, and the substitution turned out to be exactly what they were looking for in a second choice of actor.
I've very much enjoyed listening along with the podcast after each week's episode and highly recommend it. The discussion is thoughtful and really adds to my depth of understanding as a non-game-player without spoiling anything.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 7:48 AM on February 2, 2023 [10 favorites]
They talked about how representation matters, and the show's creator really intended 2 gay actors to play these characters because of the nuance and subtleties in small behaviors that they wanted viewers to see as totally authentic between Frank and Bill.
However, someone suggested Offerman as an alternative choice for Bill's role, and the substitution turned out to be exactly what they were looking for in a second choice of actor.
I've very much enjoyed listening along with the podcast after each week's episode and highly recommend it. The discussion is thoughtful and really adds to my depth of understanding as a non-game-player without spoiling anything.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 7:48 AM on February 2, 2023 [10 favorites]
I really appreciated what this episode didn't show, and what it was used to show. I appreciated that we saw a closed door instead of Bill and Frank's dead bodies. I was glad they didn't show a massacre of the people on the truck. I think this was one of the first gay love stories I've seen where physical intimacy isn't initiated accidentally or involves a fistfight as foreplay; it was honest and intentional and that made it ring more true to me.
In the bigger picture, there's very little connection yet between Ellie and Joel here in the third episode, and this let the plot and that relationship parry along a bit without forcing it.
posted by Dashy at 11:08 AM on February 2, 2023 [3 favorites]
In the bigger picture, there's very little connection yet between Ellie and Joel here in the third episode, and this let the plot and that relationship parry along a bit without forcing it.
posted by Dashy at 11:08 AM on February 2, 2023 [3 favorites]
However, someone suggested Offerman as an alternative choice for Bill's role, and the substitution turned out to be exactly what they were looking for in a second choice of actor.
Nick Offerman was on Jimmy Kimmel discussing this recently, and mentioned that he also almost turned down the part for scheduling reasons. Apparently Megan Mullally read the script as well, and when she heard he was considering passing on it, she was the one who said "oh no you don't, you get on that plane to Calgary and go be in this right now".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:36 PM on February 2, 2023 [16 favorites]
Nick Offerman was on Jimmy Kimmel discussing this recently, and mentioned that he also almost turned down the part for scheduling reasons. Apparently Megan Mullally read the script as well, and when she heard he was considering passing on it, she was the one who said "oh no you don't, you get on that plane to Calgary and go be in this right now".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:36 PM on February 2, 2023 [16 favorites]
Not that it matters, the art of acting and all that, but it is a little bit amusing that had scheduling gone a different way, keeping Con O'Neill as Bill would've meant that the leads in this likely Emmy nominated episode set in very 2000's America would have been an English actor and an Australian actor.
posted by Apocryphon at 2:02 PM on February 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Apocryphon at 2:02 PM on February 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
In the bigger picture, there's very little connection yet between Ellie and Joel here in the third episode, and this let the plot and that relationship parry along a bit without forcing it.
There is a connection between Joel and Ellie here, but it's for the audience's point of view. Bill and Frank's relationship are a possible reality, a scenario that could happen in this world. Especially since there are so many parallels between Joe and Bill, the audience can now envision a happy life for Joel and Ellie.
It's not a one-to-one parallel, more of a parental relationship rather than a romantic one, but the promise of love and happiness nonetheless.
And there is a connection to the rest of the story in regards to the mindset of Joel specifically.
For Joel, there is a sense of dread mixed with regret. Dread in the idea that loss is inevitable, even without zombies, and regret in the fact that Bill and Frank's relationship is something he could have had with Tess. It tees up Joel to become more of a parent toward Ellie, because he sees what's possible, and because he doesn't want to miss out on something good yet again.
posted by ishmael at 6:10 PM on February 2, 2023 [2 favorites]
There is a connection between Joel and Ellie here, but it's for the audience's point of view. Bill and Frank's relationship are a possible reality, a scenario that could happen in this world. Especially since there are so many parallels between Joe and Bill, the audience can now envision a happy life for Joel and Ellie.
It's not a one-to-one parallel, more of a parental relationship rather than a romantic one, but the promise of love and happiness nonetheless.
And there is a connection to the rest of the story in regards to the mindset of Joel specifically.
For Joel, there is a sense of dread mixed with regret. Dread in the idea that loss is inevitable, even without zombies, and regret in the fact that Bill and Frank's relationship is something he could have had with Tess. It tees up Joel to become more of a parent toward Ellie, because he sees what's possible, and because he doesn't want to miss out on something good yet again.
posted by ishmael at 6:10 PM on February 2, 2023 [2 favorites]
I got hooked on this series last night and, by the time this episode finished, it was late and night and my husband had already gone to bed (no interest in zombie stories for him). I was just everything with my feelings about the episode, climbed into bed next to him, and held him so tightly as he slept!
"Representation matters" has been something I believed as an academic truth, a good idea, a sensible goal. It's not often I feel it and get a 100% blast straight-on. Way too much of my life with my partner ended up on that screen somehow1 and it's been with me all day after. What more can anyone want from a show?
[1] Not the zombie part
posted by traveler_ at 8:58 PM on February 2, 2023 [15 favorites]
"Representation matters" has been something I believed as an academic truth, a good idea, a sensible goal. It's not often I feel it and get a 100% blast straight-on. Way too much of my life with my partner ended up on that screen somehow1 and it's been with me all day after. What more can anyone want from a show?
[1] Not the zombie part
posted by traveler_ at 8:58 PM on February 2, 2023 [15 favorites]
[1] Not the zombie part
At least not yet.
Anyone else been avoiding baking? I think about it and then I remember the Indian doctor.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:20 PM on February 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
At least not yet.
Anyone else been avoiding baking? I think about it and then I remember the Indian doctor.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:20 PM on February 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
Anyone else been avoiding baking? I think about it and then I remember the Indian doctor.
Indonesian.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 8:43 AM on February 3, 2023 [4 favorites]
Indonesian.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 8:43 AM on February 3, 2023 [4 favorites]
Yes, I was incorrect, thanks for setting the record, and me, straight!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:49 AM on February 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:49 AM on February 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
Anyone else been avoiding baking?
Brandon, not avoiding baking but I visibly winced when my husband asked if I wanted him to make me pancakes (the roads were iced over so we both worked from home). This show got me right in the feels!
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 10:03 AM on February 3, 2023
Brandon, not avoiding baking but I visibly winced when my husband asked if I wanted him to make me pancakes (the roads were iced over so we both worked from home). This show got me right in the feels!
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 10:03 AM on February 3, 2023
Another food-related point, specifically about the strawberries. Bill had access to the Home Depot we saw him visit at the start. I don't know if he only made that one visit, or if he used it as and when he needed stuff from there. Home Depot sells seeds, so he could have had access to many different kinds of seeds, including strawberries. Maybe he deliberately didn't take them in case they were infected, but Tess gave the seeds to Frank several years later (with no info on how she came to have them).
Anyway, that's just a thought that's been niggling at me, that Bill could have strawberry seeds from Home Depot.
posted by essexjan at 1:05 PM on February 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
Anyway, that's just a thought that's been niggling at me, that Bill could have strawberry seeds from Home Depot.
posted by essexjan at 1:05 PM on February 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
Maybe so, but he needed Frank to realize he should have strawberries.
posted by Nelson at 3:01 PM on February 3, 2023 [22 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 3:01 PM on February 3, 2023 [22 favorites]
Would Home Depot have strawberry seeds in September, when the plague started? Probably not. And strawberries are typically transplanted as runners, not propagated from seeds. And they're perennials, so you don't have to plant them more than once. Cultivating them from seed is actually pretty hard.
posted by Stanczyk at 5:11 PM on February 3, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by Stanczyk at 5:11 PM on February 3, 2023 [6 favorites]
> Cultivating them from seed is actually pretty hard.
it's true that most commercial plantings are going to use transplants to propagate strawberries but that's just because they're slow germinators. in the world of the last of us, however, they have nothing but time, and you can definitely grow them from seed, esp. if you start germinating indoors
posted by dis_integration at 5:38 PM on February 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
it's true that most commercial plantings are going to use transplants to propagate strawberries but that's just because they're slow germinators. in the world of the last of us, however, they have nothing but time, and you can definitely grow them from seed, esp. if you start germinating indoors
posted by dis_integration at 5:38 PM on February 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
That's even better, because it means that Frank had been working on the strawberries for a long time, and moved them at least once. Now I love him even more! :)
posted by Mogur at 3:52 AM on February 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Mogur at 3:52 AM on February 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
In The Last of Us’s zombie hellscape, same-sex love is no big deal – now for the real world
[Owen Jones in the Guardian / Archive]
The Last Of Us' Episode 3 Director Reveals The Secret Meaning Behind The Last Shot [Inverse]
posted by ellieBOA at 6:52 AM on February 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
[Owen Jones in the Guardian / Archive]
The Last Of Us' Episode 3 Director Reveals The Secret Meaning Behind The Last Shot [Inverse]
posted by ellieBOA at 6:52 AM on February 5, 2023 [4 favorites]
Completely unrelated to Bill and Frank, but still part of the story: the rumor on how this started was in the flour: it started in the flour plant in Jakarta, and Joel mentions the story of it being from the flour.
Back at the top of the first episode, Joel's daughter is going to cook pancakes for breakfast, but they're out of pancake mix. Then the neighbor offers them biscuits, and they decline. Then after school Joel's daughter is going to get oatmeal raisin cookies from the neighbor but leaves before they're ready. Then Joel comes home but forgot to pick up a birthday cake.
That is four separate incidents where they dodged the zombie bullet. Really, really well done.
posted by nushustu at 3:03 PM on February 5, 2023 [30 favorites]
Back at the top of the first episode, Joel's daughter is going to cook pancakes for breakfast, but they're out of pancake mix. Then the neighbor offers them biscuits, and they decline. Then after school Joel's daughter is going to get oatmeal raisin cookies from the neighbor but leaves before they're ready. Then Joel comes home but forgot to pick up a birthday cake.
That is four separate incidents where they dodged the zombie bullet. Really, really well done.
posted by nushustu at 3:03 PM on February 5, 2023 [30 favorites]
That is four separate incidents where they dodged the zombie bullet.
Ah, I love this level of detail. Excellent.
posted by crossoverman at 4:53 PM on February 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
Ah, I love this level of detail. Excellent.
posted by crossoverman at 4:53 PM on February 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
Then the neighbor offers them biscuits, and they decline
Indeed, Joel mentions that he's on Atkins, so no delicious contaminated carbs for him.
posted by coriolisdave at 4:58 PM on February 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
Indeed, Joel mentions that he's on Atkins, so no delicious contaminated carbs for him.
posted by coriolisdave at 4:58 PM on February 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
I was absolutely delighted about the kid turning down cookies ‘cause they were oatmeal raisin. * chef’s kiss*
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:01 PM on February 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:01 PM on February 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
I keep coming back to Joel’s “if my… my… if mine” line, which is think is so gorgeous in its duality of him neither knowing what to call Frank, but also not knowing what to call Tess!!
posted by Iteki at 9:25 AM on February 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Iteki at 9:25 AM on February 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
Neither zombies nor video games with guns in them are usually my thing, but after hearing so much praise for this show I decided to give it three episodes.
And I am so glad I did. This was one of the best episodes of anything I've seen in a long time.
posted by box at 3:17 PM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
And I am so glad I did. This was one of the best episodes of anything I've seen in a long time.
posted by box at 3:17 PM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Man, I hope I never attain the levels of cynicism where my response to beautifully written and constructed piece of art is "Ugh, they just made this because they wanted people to like it.".
Tangential, but one of the best observations I've ever heard about that kind of comment came from Billy Porter, discussing the fallout from when he wore a ball gown to the Oscars:
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:23 AM on February 13, 2023
Tangential, but one of the best observations I've ever heard about that kind of comment came from Billy Porter, discussing the fallout from when he wore a ball gown to the Oscars:
A lot of the comments from the haters were saying things like "Oh, he just did that for the attention." Well....yeah! I'm an actor! I want people to pay attention to me!So...reading someone complaining that "they only made this becuase they wanted people to like it" is "well....duh, how many artists do you know want people to hate their work?"
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:23 AM on February 13, 2023
And cries of manipulation are a little funny because all entertainment is trying to manipulate all the time!
Yes! I mean, there is certainly a type of emotional manipulation in media that feels cheap and unearned, but speaking more broadly, emotional "manipulation" is one of the main goals of *a lot* of art -- it wants to evoke certain feelings in its audience and "manipulates" them, using the tools and tricks of the art form, to feel those feelings!
I didn't feel the emotions this episode evoked in so many people were cheap or unearned. It was one of the most beautiful gay love stories in mainstream, not-specifically-aimed-at-queer-audiences media I've ever seen. That it came in this unexpected genre program doesn't detract from that at all. (It also felt more authentic than a lot of other mainstream attempts at depicting gay couples, which are often written as if they are a heterosexual couple except one partner has been gender-swapped and the result is that the characters' sexuality ends up feeling incidental or tacked on rather than being an inherent part of their character (which isn't to say that their sexuality should define them, but it also shouldn't feel like it doesn't matter...I'm not sure if this is coming across in writing as sensibly as it does in my mind, so I'll just leave it here).)
While I can sort of understand specific criticisms about it being odd to dedicate an entire episode to a short film about two characters who are dead before the protagonist arrives, I agree that it did a great job of summing up the philosophy of the show. Lots of little things Bill said (and wrote) showed this in both subtle and very explicit ways, such as, "Before you, I was never afraid." Being a weirdo, survivalist in a bunker doesn't make much long-term sense without a reason to survive, to be honest, and Bill may not have really thought about it or realized it before Frank came into his life. Having something to lose is one of the only reasons to continue living in such a terrible world (Tess or Joel said something similar earlier, about continuing to go on and enduring for family, because otherwise there isn't much point).
posted by asnider at 12:46 PM on February 13, 2023
Yes! I mean, there is certainly a type of emotional manipulation in media that feels cheap and unearned, but speaking more broadly, emotional "manipulation" is one of the main goals of *a lot* of art -- it wants to evoke certain feelings in its audience and "manipulates" them, using the tools and tricks of the art form, to feel those feelings!
I didn't feel the emotions this episode evoked in so many people were cheap or unearned. It was one of the most beautiful gay love stories in mainstream, not-specifically-aimed-at-queer-audiences media I've ever seen. That it came in this unexpected genre program doesn't detract from that at all. (It also felt more authentic than a lot of other mainstream attempts at depicting gay couples, which are often written as if they are a heterosexual couple except one partner has been gender-swapped and the result is that the characters' sexuality ends up feeling incidental or tacked on rather than being an inherent part of their character (which isn't to say that their sexuality should define them, but it also shouldn't feel like it doesn't matter...I'm not sure if this is coming across in writing as sensibly as it does in my mind, so I'll just leave it here).)
While I can sort of understand specific criticisms about it being odd to dedicate an entire episode to a short film about two characters who are dead before the protagonist arrives, I agree that it did a great job of summing up the philosophy of the show. Lots of little things Bill said (and wrote) showed this in both subtle and very explicit ways, such as, "Before you, I was never afraid." Being a weirdo, survivalist in a bunker doesn't make much long-term sense without a reason to survive, to be honest, and Bill may not have really thought about it or realized it before Frank came into his life. Having something to lose is one of the only reasons to continue living in such a terrible world (Tess or Joel said something similar earlier, about continuing to go on and enduring for family, because otherwise there isn't much point).
posted by asnider at 12:46 PM on February 13, 2023
I fully expected to be scared and tense throughout this show. (and boy howdy - I'm a horror wimp and this is making me breathe heavily)
But I never expected to cry big sniffely tears at it. They knocked this out of the park for me. The strawberries were a sweet touch and reminded me of the joy of finding those tee tiny wild strawberries in my grandparents field in New Hampshire. I could totally understand that moment of joy.
And then my wife rolled her eyes when I commented about the wine with the final dinner - "but the beaujolais would be like 20 years too old" :)
posted by drewbage1847 at 7:29 PM on February 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
But I never expected to cry big sniffely tears at it. They knocked this out of the park for me. The strawberries were a sweet touch and reminded me of the joy of finding those tee tiny wild strawberries in my grandparents field in New Hampshire. I could totally understand that moment of joy.
And then my wife rolled her eyes when I commented about the wine with the final dinner - "but the beaujolais would be like 20 years too old" :)
posted by drewbage1847 at 7:29 PM on February 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
Coming in a bit after the fact with a more general comment on this -
The game was considered a breakthrough gaming+storytelling combination of media- I picked it up years after release, because of all the continued buzz around the game.
There's a story that Pedro Pascal told on the Graham Norton show, from back when they were just starting to cast the show. He'd had an audition or something, and was waiting to hear back about it; his sister called him to catch up, at a time when his two teenage nephews were also present and listening in. They asked what he had going on.
"Oh, I'm up for a part - hey, guys, you may be interested, it's supposed to be based on some video game."
"Huh." they gave a couple of bored teenage grunts. "What game?"
"I think it's called 'The L-'"
That was as far as he got before both his nephews excitedly shouted "THE LAST OF US?????" And then they spent a good minute and a half telling their Uncle Pedro that he'd better get that part.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:28 AM on November 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
The game was considered a breakthrough gaming+storytelling combination of media- I picked it up years after release, because of all the continued buzz around the game.
There's a story that Pedro Pascal told on the Graham Norton show, from back when they were just starting to cast the show. He'd had an audition or something, and was waiting to hear back about it; his sister called him to catch up, at a time when his two teenage nephews were also present and listening in. They asked what he had going on.
"Oh, I'm up for a part - hey, guys, you may be interested, it's supposed to be based on some video game."
"Huh." they gave a couple of bored teenage grunts. "What game?"
"I think it's called 'The L-'"
That was as far as he got before both his nephews excitedly shouted "THE LAST OF US?????" And then they spent a good minute and a half telling their Uncle Pedro that he'd better get that part.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:28 AM on November 21, 2023 [2 favorites]
(Hee - I found a clip just of him telling that story.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:41 AM on November 22, 2023
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:41 AM on November 22, 2023
It’s just odd that the production designer who found an impossibly perfect location for Frank and Bill’s neighborhood, also dropped a mountain range in Waltham. For what? Not a minute later they’re walking along an overgrown road that could pass for suburban Boston.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 9:42 PM on December 31, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by TWinbrook8 at 9:42 PM on December 31, 2023 [1 favorite]
Adding the note for the record that Nick Offerman won an Emmy for this episode, as God intended.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:40 AM on February 29
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:40 AM on February 29
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posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:23 PM on January 29, 2023 [2 favorites]