The Last of Us: Look for the Light Books Included
March 12, 2023 7:39 PM - Season 1, Episode 9 - Subscribe
A pregnant Anna places her trust in a lifelong friend. Later, Joel and Ellie near the end of their journey.
books included means the playstation games
books included means the playstation games
I don’t know that we needed the origin story of Ellie.
On some level Joel is being pragmatic. They were going to kill Ellie without any reasonable hope of benefit. If they found the right chemical or whatever, what’s their manufacturing and distribution plan? It’s not Eli Lily there; it’s just 3 nurses and a doctor.
posted by jeoc at 9:26 PM on March 12, 2023
On some level Joel is being pragmatic. They were going to kill Ellie without any reasonable hope of benefit. If they found the right chemical or whatever, what’s their manufacturing and distribution plan? It’s not Eli Lily there; it’s just 3 nurses and a doctor.
posted by jeoc at 9:26 PM on March 12, 2023
jeoc: "On some level Joel is being pragmatic. They were going to kill Ellie without any reasonable hope of benefit. If they found the right chemical or whatever, what’s their manufacturing and distribution plan? It’s not Eli Lily there; it’s just 3 nurses and a doctor."
This was the whole debate on video game forums. This was how some people tried to logic themselves out of the dissonance. I absolutely agree with you about distribution, but I think we all know that none of that occurred to Joel before he started shooting people.
I went through the anguish myself, and maybe this'll all play out in the show-only thread, but it's been a decade and I've only gotten more resolute about this over the years. I imagine that lots of parents, if somehow put in such a situation, would kill an innocent stranger to save their own child. I don't defend or relish the awful, terrible, horrible decision that Joel makes, but I can sit back and admire the way it lays bare the thought experiment. Ultimately, it is the only thing that gives the story any resonance, and is the only reason we're watching this TV adaptation of the damn thing ten years hence.
posted by savetheclocktower at 9:51 PM on March 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
This was the whole debate on video game forums. This was how some people tried to logic themselves out of the dissonance. I absolutely agree with you about distribution, but I think we all know that none of that occurred to Joel before he started shooting people.
I went through the anguish myself, and maybe this'll all play out in the show-only thread, but it's been a decade and I've only gotten more resolute about this over the years. I imagine that lots of parents, if somehow put in such a situation, would kill an innocent stranger to save their own child. I don't defend or relish the awful, terrible, horrible decision that Joel makes, but I can sit back and admire the way it lays bare the thought experiment. Ultimately, it is the only thing that gives the story any resonance, and is the only reason we're watching this TV adaptation of the damn thing ten years hence.
posted by savetheclocktower at 9:51 PM on March 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
Was Ellie's birth sourced from the game? It would have to be the second game, it's not in the first.
posted by Nelson at 10:37 PM on March 12, 2023
posted by Nelson at 10:37 PM on March 12, 2023
Nelson: "Was Ellie's birth sourced from the game? It would have to be the second game, it's not in the first."
I don't think it was in either game. If it was in the source material at all, it would've been in the comic books or something, but I get the impression that was new information for us.
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:44 PM on March 12, 2023
I don't think it was in either game. If it was in the source material at all, it would've been in the comic books or something, but I get the impression that was new information for us.
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:44 PM on March 12, 2023
Was Ellie's birth sourced from the game? It would have to be the second game, it's not in the first.
no this is completely new material. honestly doesn’t make sense to me as an explanation of her immunity (by the time a baby is born the brain is already pretty developed, maybe if the mother got bit right after conception or something idk). i think they were struggling to give marlene some of the depth that the environmental storytelling gives her in the game, since having joel pick up tape recorders and listen to them wouldn’t work on the show.
i did always think it implausible that they could actually develop a working vaccine with just one single immune source, much less get it manufactured and distributed around the fallen world. i do think that it would not have mattered much to joel either way however. they could have been at a mint condition eli lily plant fully staffed and he would have gone a rampaging.
this episode was incredibly spare, lean and mean. but it did suffer from one of my main problems with the show which is that the action scenes were under directed or something. they lacked a bit of excitement and the sense of danger somehow? i dunno. maybe they’re supposed to be anti violent violence?
posted by dis_integration at 5:19 AM on March 13, 2023
no this is completely new material. honestly doesn’t make sense to me as an explanation of her immunity (by the time a baby is born the brain is already pretty developed, maybe if the mother got bit right after conception or something idk). i think they were struggling to give marlene some of the depth that the environmental storytelling gives her in the game, since having joel pick up tape recorders and listen to them wouldn’t work on the show.
i did always think it implausible that they could actually develop a working vaccine with just one single immune source, much less get it manufactured and distributed around the fallen world. i do think that it would not have mattered much to joel either way however. they could have been at a mint condition eli lily plant fully staffed and he would have gone a rampaging.
this episode was incredibly spare, lean and mean. but it did suffer from one of my main problems with the show which is that the action scenes were under directed or something. they lacked a bit of excitement and the sense of danger somehow? i dunno. maybe they’re supposed to be anti violent violence?
posted by dis_integration at 5:19 AM on March 13, 2023
The story of Ellie’s mom apparently came from unreleased DLC.
posted by ourobouros at 6:19 AM on March 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by ourobouros at 6:19 AM on March 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
I was struck by the bad science of killing your only living subject immediately after finding her. Or at least I assumed Joel had only been out for hours and not days. No blood tests or serological studies, just right into the brain, probably killing the only person immune.
I think in the game you could see in her xray there was something growing there.
posted by fiercekitten at 7:40 AM on March 13, 2023
I think in the game you could see in her xray there was something growing there.
posted by fiercekitten at 7:40 AM on March 13, 2023
This episode sure embraced a lot of videogame tropes. Like the boost / ladder bit. And we finally get a proper FPS murder spree, propulsive shooting and randomly looting guns off the corpses to keep murdering. I had really liked how the show so far had avoided picking up that part of the game, it makes no sense for a TV show character and just looks ridiculous on screen. OTOH if there's ever any group that deserves the murdering, it's the Firefly child medical experiment lab.
Lots of folks have been commenting on the other thread about how rushed this episode seemed. I'd practically forgotten who Marlene was, like dis_integration says the show couldn't do the tape recorder thing that the game uses to keep that part of the story active. I guess the Ellie's mom scene was supposed to be the bridge for us instead but it didn't work for me. None of the emotional stakes in this episode really worked, for that matter. Which is too bad because it hits so well as the finale to the first game.
Thanks for clearing up the origin of the Ellie's Mom story. It's neat they got the game actor for Ellie to play her mom on the TV show.
I haven't played the second game yet and have so far avoided having the story spoiled for me. I greatly enjoyed playing through the first game and comparing it to the well-made TV show. Guess I better get going on Part II. I guess the story is bigger, they're planning more than one season for it.
posted by Nelson at 9:12 AM on March 13, 2023
Lots of folks have been commenting on the other thread about how rushed this episode seemed. I'd practically forgotten who Marlene was, like dis_integration says the show couldn't do the tape recorder thing that the game uses to keep that part of the story active. I guess the Ellie's mom scene was supposed to be the bridge for us instead but it didn't work for me. None of the emotional stakes in this episode really worked, for that matter. Which is too bad because it hits so well as the finale to the first game.
Thanks for clearing up the origin of the Ellie's Mom story. It's neat they got the game actor for Ellie to play her mom on the TV show.
I haven't played the second game yet and have so far avoided having the story spoiled for me. I greatly enjoyed playing through the first game and comparing it to the well-made TV show. Guess I better get going on Part II. I guess the story is bigger, they're planning more than one season for it.
posted by Nelson at 9:12 AM on March 13, 2023
Killing her immediately also didn't make sense to me.
I also wondered if there had been any other attempts to recreate the circumstances that she was born in. Although that would not be easy. And it would be an incredibly dark path to go down. We really don't know what other testing has been done.
It was probably also very naive of them to think they would go there, there would be some tests done, and they would just let them go. That was never going to happen.
I agree that it was a very tight episode. Joel The Killing Machine vs Joel the lying liar was really well done. I'm still like damn, Joel why keep lying. Watching their relationship grow was so cool. Knowing he destroyed it is just ugh.
posted by mokeydraws at 9:15 AM on March 13, 2023
I also wondered if there had been any other attempts to recreate the circumstances that she was born in. Although that would not be easy. And it would be an incredibly dark path to go down. We really don't know what other testing has been done.
It was probably also very naive of them to think they would go there, there would be some tests done, and they would just let them go. That was never going to happen.
I agree that it was a very tight episode. Joel The Killing Machine vs Joel the lying liar was really well done. I'm still like damn, Joel why keep lying. Watching their relationship grow was so cool. Knowing he destroyed it is just ugh.
posted by mokeydraws at 9:15 AM on March 13, 2023
Joel's lie hit so differently for me in the game! I don't know why; maybe my head filled it in, maybe there's more dialog with Ellie that led me to a different view. But in the game it's clear Ellie really wants to do her part, is totally sold on the idea that she will save humanity. She's not thrilled about being a lab rat but she's actively engaged and eager to get to the medical facility. And Joel takes that away from her, makes the decision to save her life while she is unconscious. In that moment Joel is afraid of what Ellie will think, will be mad at him that he took her life's goal away. Also maybe concerned about how Ellie will take the news that she no longer as a life purpose. So he makes up a lie for Ellie, tells her that really the goal was never possible at all.
How Ellie takes that news is a little ambiguous in the game; most of us read into the acting that she's skeptical but there's plenty of room for disagreement in interpreting the game ending. So far in the show-only thread everyone seems to just be assuming Ellie knew, based on Ramsey's performance. Playing the game, I read it a bit as if Ellie knew Joel was lying but was willing to accept the lie as a way to keep their relationship intact. (I gather the second game adds a lot here, but I have not played it.)
posted by Nelson at 9:37 AM on March 13, 2023
How Ellie takes that news is a little ambiguous in the game; most of us read into the acting that she's skeptical but there's plenty of room for disagreement in interpreting the game ending. So far in the show-only thread everyone seems to just be assuming Ellie knew, based on Ramsey's performance. Playing the game, I read it a bit as if Ellie knew Joel was lying but was willing to accept the lie as a way to keep their relationship intact. (I gather the second game adds a lot here, but I have not played it.)
posted by Nelson at 9:37 AM on March 13, 2023
The Podcast / Making of paints in a lot of intended context - Bella Ramsey stated in an interview that her character knew that Joel was lying, but wanted to believe it. I also thought Video Game Ellie also knew Joel was lying - why even bring it up, unless there was doubt?
I also have not advanced to playing Part 2 yet, but I'm sure there must be Massive Ramifications if/when such a flimsy lie becomes exposed.
Mrs. WedgedPiano (who is a show-only person) and I had a really good discussion about Joel's choice immediately after the show ended. It's such a darkest timeline 'Good Place' scenario that I won't rehash here. Looking forward to digging into Season 2.
posted by WedgedPiano at 10:27 AM on March 13, 2023
I also have not advanced to playing Part 2 yet, but I'm sure there must be Massive Ramifications if/when such a flimsy lie becomes exposed.
Mrs. WedgedPiano (who is a show-only person) and I had a really good discussion about Joel's choice immediately after the show ended. It's such a darkest timeline 'Good Place' scenario that I won't rehash here. Looking forward to digging into Season 2.
posted by WedgedPiano at 10:27 AM on March 13, 2023
So 'Omega Man' got the immunology (mostly) correct.
Had a conversation with a coworker earlier - it really depends on how Ellie is resistant.
For HIV, for instance, it's a mutation in the receptor that HIV uses to enter and infect cells. That kind of immunity isn't really transferable except through conception.
If their specific HLA/MHC mixture allows them to produce antibodies against the fungus, thus recognizing it and able to signal the immune system to attack it - then, it may be possible to harvest her serum (doesn't have to be lethal, the red blood cells could be returned even) and isolate and concentrate her antibodies. The situation in 'Omega Man.' If given to someone just infected, at a high enough concentration, it may be enough to stop the infection. This usually does not provide long-lasting immunity although there might be a low chance of triggering antibody affinity maturation and provide some long term protection.
In this scenario, it behooves humanity to keep them well nutritioned and cooperative, harvest their antibodies, then encourage them to procreate, then screen their descendants.
posted by porpoise at 10:31 AM on March 13, 2023
Had a conversation with a coworker earlier - it really depends on how Ellie is resistant.
For HIV, for instance, it's a mutation in the receptor that HIV uses to enter and infect cells. That kind of immunity isn't really transferable except through conception.
If their specific HLA/MHC mixture allows them to produce antibodies against the fungus, thus recognizing it and able to signal the immune system to attack it - then, it may be possible to harvest her serum (doesn't have to be lethal, the red blood cells could be returned even) and isolate and concentrate her antibodies. The situation in 'Omega Man.' If given to someone just infected, at a high enough concentration, it may be enough to stop the infection. This usually does not provide long-lasting immunity although there might be a low chance of triggering antibody affinity maturation and provide some long term protection.
In this scenario, it behooves humanity to keep them well nutritioned and cooperative, harvest their antibodies, then encourage them to procreate, then screen their descendants.
posted by porpoise at 10:31 AM on March 13, 2023
It did not escape my attention that Ellie’s mother lies to keep Ellie alive (and Marlene knows it), and Joel lies to keep Ellie alive - both to Marlene about their relationship, and then to Ellie, to keep the hopeful kid in her alive, and to absolve her of ruminating on a decision that no 14 year old is capable of making.
I found the directing in the last two episodes lacking. Good at adapting video game visuals to screen, but all of the emotional beats feel so flat in the last two eps. Even when Joel is finally telling Ellie that she healed his heart - even if Ellie didn’t say anything back, she would have leaned on him. Pedro and Bella have shown a wonderful capacity for full-bodied emotional communication throughout the series — and that scene is so static. Both actors are capable of great warmth in their non-verbal relationship — not sure why the director made these choices.
posted by Silvery Fish at 10:50 AM on March 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
I found the directing in the last two episodes lacking. Good at adapting video game visuals to screen, but all of the emotional beats feel so flat in the last two eps. Even when Joel is finally telling Ellie that she healed his heart - even if Ellie didn’t say anything back, she would have leaned on him. Pedro and Bella have shown a wonderful capacity for full-bodied emotional communication throughout the series — and that scene is so static. Both actors are capable of great warmth in their non-verbal relationship — not sure why the director made these choices.
posted by Silvery Fish at 10:50 AM on March 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Even when Joel is finally telling Ellie that she healed his heart - even if Ellie didn’t say anything back, she would have leaned on him. Pedro and Bella have shown a wonderful capacity for full-bodied emotional communication throughout the series — and that scene is so static.
I found that scene to be really emotional. I was struck by how much Bella Ramsey's eyes said in that moment, welling up a bit when she recognized what Joel was saying. The whole show - like the game - made me so sad, and I don't think an actor of lesser skill than Ramsey could have pulled it off.
posted by schoolgirl report at 11:26 AM on March 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
I found that scene to be really emotional. I was struck by how much Bella Ramsey's eyes said in that moment, welling up a bit when she recognized what Joel was saying. The whole show - like the game - made me so sad, and I don't think an actor of lesser skill than Ramsey could have pulled it off.
posted by schoolgirl report at 11:26 AM on March 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
Even when Joel is finally telling Ellie that she healed his heart - even if Ellie didn’t say anything back, she would have leaned on him. Pedro and Bella have shown a wonderful capacity for full-bodied emotional communication throughout the series — and that scene is so static.
I don't think she would have, necessarily. Especially after what she had been through. She's different. He is offering her that information but it's kind of tainted since he is doing it after lying to her. I appreciated the way she acknowledged him and thought it was very touching. The relationship has changed. Before, she was more open and reaching out while he was more guarded. Now he's open but she's closing up.
Now that I think about it, their relationship grew as Joel started treating her not just like a person but an equal, a partner or team member (in a non creepy way). Him lying to her undoes that. She's not the kid who you can "because I'm the adult".
posted by mokeydraws at 12:02 PM on March 13, 2023
I don't think she would have, necessarily. Especially after what she had been through. She's different. He is offering her that information but it's kind of tainted since he is doing it after lying to her. I appreciated the way she acknowledged him and thought it was very touching. The relationship has changed. Before, she was more open and reaching out while he was more guarded. Now he's open but she's closing up.
Now that I think about it, their relationship grew as Joel started treating her not just like a person but an equal, a partner or team member (in a non creepy way). Him lying to her undoes that. She's not the kid who you can "because I'm the adult".
posted by mokeydraws at 12:02 PM on March 13, 2023
mokeydraws: "I don't think she would have, necessarily. Especially after what she had been through. She's different. He is offering her that information but it's kind of tainted since he is doing it after lying to her. "
I think Silvery Fish is talking about the scene earlier in the episode where Joel talks about his suicide attempt.
I do think they played that scene a bit safe, and some actual affection would've been nice between them, but I cold also envision it coming off as heavy-handed. On this show, the more a character leans into being happy and content, the more you instinctively think oh shit something bad is about to happen. Even when Joel said “I'm in the mood for some shitty puns,” I tensed up because I could sense the show trying to get me to let my guard down.
posted by savetheclocktower at 12:39 PM on March 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
I think Silvery Fish is talking about the scene earlier in the episode where Joel talks about his suicide attempt.
I do think they played that scene a bit safe, and some actual affection would've been nice between them, but I cold also envision it coming off as heavy-handed. On this show, the more a character leans into being happy and content, the more you instinctively think oh shit something bad is about to happen. Even when Joel said “I'm in the mood for some shitty puns,” I tensed up because I could sense the show trying to get me to let my guard down.
posted by savetheclocktower at 12:39 PM on March 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Aw man, E is for dissociation. I can't believe we have new canon :o
Absolutely always a joy to see Ashley Johnson, I'm so glad she was in it.
I talk about the second game here.
posted by Iteki at 1:43 PM on March 13, 2023
Absolutely always a joy to see Ashley Johnson, I'm so glad she was in it.
I talk about the second game here.
The opening with Ellie thinking about her birth (I read it that she knows the circumstances, or at least these circumstances she was told), was a really good call imho to further ground how utterly fucking betrayed she is by Joel's choice. Her mom made a sacrifice that saved her, and here she is stolen of her chance to do the same; that's gonna burn a little extra.
posted by Iteki at 1:43 PM on March 13, 2023
More about game two scroll away scroll away:
This comment in the show only thread had me giggling.
posted by Iteki at 2:11 PM on March 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
This comment in the show only thread had me giggling.
posted by Iteki at 2:11 PM on March 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Oh shit you're right savetheclocktower. For some reason I remembered it out of order.
posted by mokeydraws at 2:50 PM on March 13, 2023
posted by mokeydraws at 2:50 PM on March 13, 2023
honestly doesn’t make sense to me as an explanation of her immunity (by the time a baby is born the brain is already pretty developed, maybe if the mother got bit right after conception or something idk)... i did always think it implausible that they could actually develop a working vaccine with just one single immune source, much less get it manufactured and distributed around the fallen world.
I haven't played the game but the implication in the show is that she's not so much immune as she is a carrier.
You could explain all of this by saying that she got a teeny-tiny amount of cordyceps during the birth and her innate immune system managed to fight it to a standstill. When babies are born they have a unique immune system with unusually effective naive T-cells. You could then say that the cordyceps in her has ended up adjusting to its circumstances and is now more or less benign, and could be cultured in pig brains (or whatever) to produce an inoculation. This would also explain why harvesting serum wouldn't work either, she doesn't have antibodies that kill cordyceps, she has cordyceps that kills cordyceps and (for some reason) doesn't circulate in her blood, but hangs out in her brain killing any other cordyceps that shows up.
Slate's review really didn't like how easily Joel mowed through Fireflies:
I haven't played the game but the implication in the show is that she's not so much immune as she is a carrier.
You could explain all of this by saying that she got a teeny-tiny amount of cordyceps during the birth and her innate immune system managed to fight it to a standstill. When babies are born they have a unique immune system with unusually effective naive T-cells. You could then say that the cordyceps in her has ended up adjusting to its circumstances and is now more or less benign, and could be cultured in pig brains (or whatever) to produce an inoculation. This would also explain why harvesting serum wouldn't work either, she doesn't have antibodies that kill cordyceps, she has cordyceps that kills cordyceps and (for some reason) doesn't circulate in her blood, but hangs out in her brain killing any other cordyceps that shows up.
Slate's review really didn't like how easily Joel mowed through Fireflies:
For a show that has emphasized its gritty realism at every turn, one whose hero was previously almost killed by getting stabbed with a broken baseball bat, Joel’s sudden invulnerability is a disastrous step into fantasy logic, where the steeliness of his resolve makes him impossible to defeat. In the game, fighting your way to Ellie is a difficult challenge, so you’re invested in the outcome just by virtue of the hours you’ve put in getting there. But on the show, Joel just sails right on through. It’s more like the clichéd idea of a video game than the game itself.posted by BungaDunga at 5:55 PM on March 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
More about game two scroll away scroll away:
i’m excited about season 2 because i’m one of the apparently rare fans who thinks the second game has a much better and tighter narrative, and i loved all the changes they made for the first season so i’m excited to see what they do with the second one, but also because i can’t wait for the spoiler free crowd to react to what happens to pedro in what i’m predicting will be the cliffhanger of the 90 minute season premiere. but don’t worry, there’ll still be flashbacks
posted by dis_integration at 5:52 AM on March 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
i’m excited about season 2 because i’m one of the apparently rare fans who thinks the second game has a much better and tighter narrative, and i loved all the changes they made for the first season so i’m excited to see what they do with the second one, but also because i can’t wait for the spoiler free crowd to react to what happens to pedro in what i’m predicting will be the cliffhanger of the 90 minute season premiere. but don’t worry, there’ll still be flashbacks
posted by dis_integration at 5:52 AM on March 14, 2023 [4 favorites]
I love the second game. I think they definitely tightened up the narrative storylines, and I think now that the show has success, they have more freedom to expand on the source material more effectively. Again, I mentioned it in the other thread, but my take on finishing the season is that HBO was not confident a video game adaptation would be a success, and they had one shot to tell that story.
It’s been interesting seeing the reactions from people who hadn’t played the games originally. A lot of “why aren’t there more zombies?” or “I thought Joel died?” I like that expectations are being upended, but agree they will need to add in more clickers / infected next season to keep a significant base. Even though I think it’s kinda repetitive for a show vs playing a game where there are consequences and experiences with different stakes.
I give the show 7.5/10. I think they did a great job in two key aspects: keeping true to the source material and also expanding appropriately on the source material. But I do think they kept it way too tight and the storytelling felt very “and then…and then…and then…” at times. I expected (for my own sake) to rate it 4/10 and have my love of the game ruined, so very glad they mostly delivered.
posted by glaucon at 7:52 AM on March 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
It’s been interesting seeing the reactions from people who hadn’t played the games originally. A lot of “why aren’t there more zombies?” or “I thought Joel died?” I like that expectations are being upended, but agree they will need to add in more clickers / infected next season to keep a significant base. Even though I think it’s kinda repetitive for a show vs playing a game where there are consequences and experiences with different stakes.
I give the show 7.5/10. I think they did a great job in two key aspects: keeping true to the source material and also expanding appropriately on the source material. But I do think they kept it way too tight and the storytelling felt very “and then…and then…and then…” at times. I expected (for my own sake) to rate it 4/10 and have my love of the game ruined, so very glad they mostly delivered.
posted by glaucon at 7:52 AM on March 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Should have said “expand even more effectively” in the first paragraph, because I think they did a good job, and show Mazin / Druckmann definitely should have done more.
posted by glaucon at 8:00 AM on March 14, 2023
posted by glaucon at 8:00 AM on March 14, 2023
Oh also, also someone who has chosen “The Sun Always Shines on TV is the best A-ha song” as the hill upon which he will die (to my wife’s eternal eye rolling), I gave a little swoon when it showed up this episode.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 11:56 AM on March 14, 2023
posted by Parasite Unseen at 11:56 AM on March 14, 2023
I am close to "special subject" obsessed with the second game (scroll away scroll awayyyy) and I cannot goddam wait. I think you are bang on with a ninety minute intro with that cliffhanger, it would parlay quite well into the gametime structure. I am absolutely gagging for this, and really don't want to wait how many years for it? I am dreading the fucking abuse starting up again over Abby (my heart) and how many of the show only folks are going to be unable to handle Ellie's journey. I think this show has de-cutified her quite a lot, which should make it a little easier though.
posted by Iteki at 2:10 PM on March 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Iteki at 2:10 PM on March 14, 2023 [2 favorites]
I was satisfied by the climactic sequence of Joel's hospital rampage, because it mirrored my emotional experience in the game.
I am one of those resource-frugal people who finishes an RPG with 100 health potions I've never used. And I am also pretty good at FPS mechanics but I don't necessarily enjoy violence, especially towards people, or nationalism and jingoism, so the military Call of Duty style games are right out. It was easier for me to deal with surviving against people-shaped monsters, or self-defense when I am attacked by malevolent people, but I had real trouble in similar Naughty Dog games such as the Nathan Drake games, or the Lara Croft games, because I wanted to avoid violence. Lara Croft would even say things like, "I don't want to fight you!" and then I would, as her, kill some mercenaries to solve the 'violence puzzle.' Very incongruous!
Do I recall correctly that in the game, the player finds out that Ellie is not the first immune person to have this attempted upon them? So not only do they know that it will kill her, they are not 100% confident of success. I don't think Joel's story about other immune people, was a total fabrication, even though we don't get the context in the show.
During this game, when I realized that the hospital was the final level of this violence-puzzle game, I started using all of the rarest and most powerful weaponry I had collected, some of them for the first time. I did so much outlandish violence to the Fireflies that they never stood a chance. When I got to the operating room, and the doctor confronted me, I not only shot him, but the other two doctors instinctively, because I had identified with Joel's revenge so suddenly. It took me by surprise because, despite enjoying horror and action films and stuff, I do try to sneak my way through these games. But I was so upset that I killed every last one of them. So the emotional climax of this scene really got me good.
And, I loved the second game. Can't wait for the next part of the show.
posted by panhopticon at 8:45 PM on March 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
I am one of those resource-frugal people who finishes an RPG with 100 health potions I've never used. And I am also pretty good at FPS mechanics but I don't necessarily enjoy violence, especially towards people, or nationalism and jingoism, so the military Call of Duty style games are right out. It was easier for me to deal with surviving against people-shaped monsters, or self-defense when I am attacked by malevolent people, but I had real trouble in similar Naughty Dog games such as the Nathan Drake games, or the Lara Croft games, because I wanted to avoid violence. Lara Croft would even say things like, "I don't want to fight you!" and then I would, as her, kill some mercenaries to solve the 'violence puzzle.' Very incongruous!
Do I recall correctly that in the game, the player finds out that Ellie is not the first immune person to have this attempted upon them? So not only do they know that it will kill her, they are not 100% confident of success. I don't think Joel's story about other immune people, was a total fabrication, even though we don't get the context in the show.
During this game, when I realized that the hospital was the final level of this violence-puzzle game, I started using all of the rarest and most powerful weaponry I had collected, some of them for the first time. I did so much outlandish violence to the Fireflies that they never stood a chance. When I got to the operating room, and the doctor confronted me, I not only shot him, but the other two doctors instinctively, because I had identified with Joel's revenge so suddenly. It took me by surprise because, despite enjoying horror and action films and stuff, I do try to sneak my way through these games. But I was so upset that I killed every last one of them. So the emotional climax of this scene really got me good.
And, I loved the second game. Can't wait for the next part of the show.
posted by panhopticon at 8:45 PM on March 14, 2023 [3 favorites]
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On a lighter note: How long did you guys let Ellie watch the giraffes in the game? If memory serves, once I realized there really wasn’t any danger, I just left the game running while I did some laundry. Felt wrong not to. :)
posted by Mr. Excellent at 8:05 PM on March 12, 2023 [10 favorites]