The Mandalorian: Chapter 19: The Convert
March 15, 2023 3:50 AM - Season 3, Episode 3 - Subscribe

On Coruscant, former Imperials find amnesty with the New Republic.
posted by EndsOfInvention (63 comments total) 4 users marked this as a favorite
 
Missed opportunity for more Genevieve O'Reilly.
posted by orrnyereg at 5:39 AM on March 15, 2023 [10 favorites]


So in both cases, the female character is ostensively there to help the main character to rehabilitate themselves, but at the end, they each give a glance that indicates that they have their own secret agendas.

My main question is, why couldn’t Favreau manage this kind of basic parallel story structure for Boba Fett? This is basic storytelling stuff.

Also, in the concept art at the end, they showed a Hutt in the background on Coruscant. I have lots of questions about that.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 5:46 AM on March 15, 2023 [6 favorites]


Regrettably, Mon Mothma is busy overseeing the New Republic from Chandrila, as the New Republic adopts a 20 year rotating cycle of moving its capital about the galaxy as a more equitable means to make the capital closer to all the member planets (ask Hosnian Prime how that worked out). And well, Coruscant was considered a bit seeped in too many bad memories. The destruction from the months long siege that occurred there also appears to have been cleaned up! Definitely could've thrown a holo of Mothma or portrait or something though. Boo.

Coruscant looked great and I enjoyed this brief sojourn into Dr. Pershing's quite terrible, inexplicably bad day, on Coruscant. I felt like for those folks missing Andor, this definitely should have pushed a couple buttons given the dark nature of its climax, not to mention, an enemy operating undercover among the prevailing power. Did I hear correctly that the New Republic kind of lost Moff Gideon?

This was also one of the first episodes to start laying down that road that leads us to the state of things in The Force Awakens with the demilitarization of the New Republic which helps allow the First Order to gain that military edge despite Senator Leia Organa's pleas that someone should do something about it.

On the Mandalorian side of things, I'm definitely on team Bo-Katan is not going to convert to the old ways and is going to use the covey of helmeted Mandalorians for her own uses. Her decision not to mention the mythosaur to Din was interesting, and at least we now know why he went stepping into the springs with most of his armor on and plunged like a rock. An earthquake opening up deep chasms where mythical monsters live? Is the mythosaur an elder god? Heh. Pour one out for Bo-Katan's castle home and pour another one out for raising the mystery of the new Imperial threat. Thrawn?

I cannot get over that big Mandalorian walking around with a codpiece.

I overall enjoyed this episode.
posted by Atreides at 7:36 AM on March 15, 2023 [5 favorites]


After the Boba Fett show got better when it morphed into the Mandalorian, the Mandalorian got better tonight by morphing into Andor!

Andor-lite, though. Because Favreau is no Tony Gilroy.

I'm interested in seeing how all this connects. Feels like Favreau and Filoni want to try to rehabilitate the sequels in the way that the Clone Wars kind rehabilitated the prequels. "Somehow, Palpatine returned" will definitely be explained by this ongoing cloning thread. I'm not sure that's a great reason to tell a story though.

I was bored by the first two episodes of the season and this episode was a marked improvement because it was a whole other show. Such a weird choice.

Now that Din has been brought back into the Mandalorian fold, I'm not sure what this season is even about now.
posted by crossoverman at 3:24 PM on March 15, 2023 [6 favorites]


That N1 sure is shiny. And that was a nice stall turn to get the first Tie Interceptor. Straight out of WWI.
posted by porpoise at 5:25 PM on March 15, 2023 [5 favorites]


The bad biology vexed me greatly.

I did enjoy the concept of reintegration, but that was afterschool special stilted. Reminded me a little of 'The Last Emperor' after his communist re-education.

The Andorization fell flat for me, especially since the "protagonist" is a recidivist fascists jerk. And someone who gets biology wrong.

I couldn't see the dark sabre on Bo Katan. Does she have it hidden with her? In Grogu's crib?
posted by porpoise at 6:09 PM on March 15, 2023 [2 favorites]


Throughout the entire episode I kept wondering if Pershing was animation and not a human actor. Just something about the way he moved and the expressions on his face that hit the Uncanny Valley spot for me. Did anyone else have that impression?
posted by briank at 6:52 PM on March 15, 2023 [1 favorite]


It's a trap! We all LOLed, literally.
posted by COD at 7:12 PM on March 15, 2023 [12 favorites]


He’s definitely got an affect, I kind of read it as a perpetual state of terror. The glasses don’t help though.

Interesting that they did the “drop an episode of an entirely different show in” again, but last time it was an episode of a beloved show into a mediocre one, this time it’s, I don’t think Andor, there was an unproduced Coruscant noir show called Star Wars Underworld that apparently had a whole season’s worth of scripts worjed out before it was canned and I suspect that’s what Filoni and Favreau are going for.
posted by rodlymight at 7:28 PM on March 15, 2023 [4 favorites]


"You bathed in the living waters. You are a Mandalorian again. CAN WE LEAVE NOW." LOLOLOLOL.

And then the show turns into Boba Fett...nope, the Dr. Pershing/Now You're Just A Number show! Like...way to make rehab creepy by turning everyone into a number and having robotic therapy. Geez, this is uncomfortable.

I think hanging around with this chick is a bad idea, Dr. Pershing. I just get that "you're a rule follower and she's a rule breaker" vibe, especially when she got you to touch that rock. And YUP THAT DID NOT END WELL.

Coruscant has always been a weird planet. I remember reading in some old SW book that they just kept building on top of and on top of all the buildings forever and ever. And they didn't like...fall down, have a quake, anything?

"Let me buy you a proton fizzle!"
"Tomsdays, amirite?"
Nice use of "It was a trap!" to a Calamarian, I suppose.

And then the last ten minutes, OH YEAH THE MANDALORIAN AGAIN. "It'll go smoother if you keep your helmet on, trust me." "Of course."

ONE OF US! ONE OF US! WELCOME TO THE CULT!!!! .... eeeeesh. This title has more than one convert, I see.

AV Club recap. I agree with the review that I don't feel like I really know what was going on here, either.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:28 PM on March 15, 2023 [2 favorites]


I felt like for those folks missing Andor, this definitely should have pushed a couple buttons given the dark nature of its climax, not to mention, an enemy operating undercover among the prevailing power.

The tidy but small apartment that Dr. Pershing was being housed in was very similar to Karn's mom's place, and the bureaucratic cubicle farm that he worked in was likewise a counterpart to Karn's. And, just as Karn had Meero, the ambitious Imperial spy that he was pinning his professional rehabilitation hopes (and maybe other, more personal hopes) on, Pershing had his fellow reformee, Elia Kane, whom he likewise seemed to have more than one hope associated with. Until things went horribly wrong for him, of course. Right up until she cranked up the mind-sifter-flayer-thingy, I thought that she was going to turn it down and recruit him into her neo-Imperial/proto-First-Order cell. Maybe the mind thingy will extract whatever sort of information that he has on cloning?

If the whole purpose of this exercise was just to show that there are some people who are basically the same no matter who or what form of government is in charge at the moment, well, OK, although I feel like that's not that big of a peg to hang most of an episode on. The other plot seemed to make the point that there are still plenty of Imperial units around doing stuff, and I hope that Kane wasn't introduced just for this one episode. Besides, she seems like she could be a fun bad gal.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:35 PM on March 15, 2023 [4 favorites]


Other reviews: NYT, Paste.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:41 PM on March 15, 2023


porpoise - I'm pretty sure Bo handed the saber back to Din last episode like it wasn't even a big deal
posted by jordemort at 9:13 PM on March 15, 2023 [1 favorite]


Was not expecting a Space Mengele episode, I was afraid the writing was going to go full Paperclip on us. So I liked the turn where Pershing was actually failing a test of loyalty; the Republic is at least a little smart when dealing with the amnesty cases. Shout out to Katy O'Brian as Elia Kane / Pershing's handler. I guess she was in the last season? I honestly don't remember, but she was great here.

All that Coruscant stuff was great fun for me, a big fan of LEGO® Star Wars™: The Skywalker Saga. A lot of the set design felt very familiar.

this episode was a marked improvement because it was a whole other show.

For real. Definite Andor vibes. Then bookended by the silly Mandalorian helmet / baptism stuff, which paled in comparison. An awkward comparison honestly, since Andor had such gravitas. It's definitely a weird thing they're doing narratively. I'm still entertained though, so hopefully it will go somewhere.
posted by Nelson at 9:29 PM on March 15, 2023 [5 favorites]


Katy O’Brian’s site has an unexpected and perhaps best ever header image.
posted by mikepop at 10:18 PM on March 15, 2023 [11 favorites]


HAHAHAHAHAHA someone let her play with Baby Yoda!!!!
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:28 PM on March 15, 2023


I didn't like the middle segment at all. I don't mind that it was there, exactly--I imagine it will tie back in (someone lost Moff Gideon?)--but it was so long and slow. The scene on the train took forever, or at least it felt that way. Either they should have given us a longer, more involved story about Pershing--small segments over the course of a few episodes, so we could actually care--or just made this story a lot shorter.
posted by ceejaytee at 3:51 AM on March 16, 2023 [1 favorite]


Some interesting layers going on here. Yes, the main subtext is that the New Republic may be good, but it is not soft, with a side-dose of the social elite being happily oblivious to whoever is actually in charge. (Viewers who are fans of Lois McMaster Bujold might have been put in mind of Beta Colony, the egalitarian, liberal, permissive socialist paradise where even the locals are wary of the state-imposed 'therapy' for any malcontents.)

The sub-subtext though is that G58/Kane is not only covertly (from Pershing's POV) covertly working for the New Republic, but even more covertly is working for what remains of the Empire. Is she a mole, conditioned to resist the reconditioning that former Imperials are subjected to? And what is her agenda with Pershing? To mind-wipe him? To reverse or subvert his own reconditioning?

I'd be interested to know how much of the Coruscant scenes were filmed virtually and how much on location, and if the latter where. Part of the delight of watching Andor for me was playing 'spot the London Brutalist architecture'.
posted by Major Clanger at 4:30 AM on March 16, 2023 [8 favorites]


in mind of Beta Colony
Not to derail, but I ran through all of the sigan books last year and I don’t remember this about Beta Colony at all. Do you remember what book this shows up in?
posted by jeoc at 4:42 AM on March 16, 2023


Bah, look, we shouldn't be shocked at this "And Now a Whole Other Show" thing; these showrunners have demonstrated their boldness in that arena multiple times before (even Clone Wars had similarly weird outlier outings).

I say go for it, and I'll go one further and say Mando is the perfect show/protagonist on whom to hang such exploration of the setting, because he's got that Old West simplicity.

Now I do have...extremely mixed feelings about using this show I like for laying groundwork for the sequel trilogy (the finale of which I dislike intensely enough to have disavowed the entire trilogy in my current TTRPG). But (A) as per the old Dark Empire, there was no way Palpatine WASN'T gonna try cloning himself; (B) the New Republic was in serious, urgent need of some Mouse Canon development; and (C) we were long overdue for some movement on the Pershing/Herzog stuff.

And that cool mountain park/plaza location finally sees the light of live-action day, after originating in the art of Ralph McQuarrie and getting a scene in (IIRC) Clone Wars season 7. I enjoyed this episode maybe as much as the series premiere, or the finale of last season.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 6:22 AM on March 16, 2023 [3 favorites]


The thing about the mountain peak that made me wonder is ... ok so like air pressure is a thing, right? Is it as bad as the difference between sea level and the top of Mount Everest here on earth, or is Coruscant basically flat and the highest peak is only a few thousand feet above MSL?

Still, I was absolutely 100% invested in this - these are the sorts of things I'm curious about in my canon - what happened to what remained of the Empire, why doesn't it seem like the New Republic is particularly interested in dealing with Empire Warlords, etc etc etc.

As long as it isn't woobie woobie midichlorians and Skywalker family nonsense, there's a great big world to explore, so let's explore it!
posted by Kyol at 6:39 AM on March 16, 2023 [4 favorites]


I didn't know what to make of the middle section either; cam here for explanation and kind of found validation.

I think it was a perfectly serviceable episode of an SF anthology show, but so different in tone from the Mandalorian. If we were in season 3 of a traditional, 26 episode show I'd probably be raving about them veering from formula after 50+ hours of Din & Grogu.

Viewers who are fans of Lois McMaster Bujold might have been put in mind of Beta Colony, the egalitarian, liberal, permissive socialist paradise where even the locals are wary of the state-imposed 'therapy' for any malcontents.

Good callout.

I don’t remember this about Beta Colony at all. Do you remember what book this shows up in?

Shards of Honor is the main one. Spoiler:

The powers that be decide that Cordelia has been subverted by Barrayaran intelligence and is basically a Manchurian candidate; they start mandatory therapy, including surreptitious drugging of her. She basically has to defect, like she's slipping out of the iron curtain, to avoid it.

posted by mark k at 6:48 AM on March 16, 2023 [4 favorites]


Kyol, I think your explanation has to be right. Even if you postulated that Coruscant's atmosphere was thicker so that it was at, say, 1 bar at the height of the highest mountain and that this was the base exposed surface, then (a) the city would have to be miles deep, which is unlikely from a materials perspective, and (b) the atmospheric pressure at the very lowest levels would be rather high.

The more likely explanation is that Coruscant is about as mountainous as, say, England, where the highest point is only 3,200 ft above sea level. The surface building layer need not even be that thick - it could track the underlying landscape and just thin out at this point. If Coruscant is geologically fairly inert (and how would a planet-wide city survive with volcanoes and tectonic faults?) then it would plausibly have eroded until it was relatively flat.

This doesn't answer the question about what happened to Coruscant's water, assuming it had some. Even Asimov's Trantor (the other notable ecumenopolis in science fiction) is described as having had oceans that were roofed over and turned into nutrient farms. Maybe Coruscant has vast, deeply-buried cisterns in the basins once occupied by seas.
posted by Major Clanger at 7:34 AM on March 16, 2023 [3 favorites]


I didn't know what to make of the middle section either;

I watched the episode last night after having gotten outside of some edibles. Two or three times I recall thinking, “Wait, is this still The Mandalorian?”

I have to say that I haven’t seen all of Clone Wars so the concept of the mountain peak being the last bit of the original landform of Coruscant still exposed to the sky was appealing to me. And kyol: the original unbuilt-up Coruscant may have had more atmospheric pressure than ideal for the humans and aliens we mostly see. Perhaps down at the bottoms of the vast chasms between blocks the air is uncomfortably heavy.

Or, on preview, kind of what Major Clanger said.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:37 AM on March 16, 2023 [1 favorite]


The thing about the mountain peak that made me wonder is ... ok so like air pressure is a thing, right? Is it as bad as the difference between sea level and the top of Mount Everest here on earth, or is Coruscant basically flat and the highest peak is only a few thousand feet above MSL

If you've got the tech to build an ecumenopolis you've probably got the HVAC sorted.
posted by nathan_teske at 7:38 AM on March 16, 2023 [6 favorites]


Was anyone else getting John Candy line delivery vibes off the Calamarian operating the Mind Flayer Mind Relaxer?

I guess it will happen off-screen but it seemed odd that there was not more excitement/uproar once the water was confirmed to be authentic, confirming new knowledge of Mandalore etc. Just a few back pats, "nice job buddy."
posted by mikepop at 7:41 AM on March 16, 2023 [6 favorites]


I liked this episode! Overall plot seemed to be moving forward after two episodes that were nice to look at but with not much happening. Some mysteries introduced and a new location, I loved the mountain top. Glad they didn't over-milk the Bathe In The Waters sidequest and got it over without putting even more pointless obstacles in the way.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 8:02 AM on March 16, 2023 [2 favorites]


I've always had an impression that when one moved out of the major urban centers of Coruscant, the layer of building (city?) and the actual surface of the planet got significantly thinner. Such as out there in the shipyards where they're taking apart (or in the past, putting together) star destroyers, it's not as deep as the layers over near the Senate or former Jedi Temple. As someone noted the stalled live action series called Star Wars: Underworld, here's a YT link of some test footage that was created during its production process. Lucas reportedly had five seasons of scripts written and completed in preparation for the show.

Attack of the Clones was probably one of the first visual projects to show the lower levels of Coruscant (maybe there were some comics?), but it definitely set a vibe that the Clone Wars and then, every other project has gone forward on. Coruscant is also divided into districts, such as the diplomatic district (Senate) and there's also at least one industrial district if I don't recall incorrectly.

I didn't mind the hopping back and forth, especially since Pershing was a mystery character introduced as early as episode three of the first season. We definitely saw the last of him here, but I feel comfortable under the belief this was not the last time we saw Kane. Kane is 100% working for whomever is pulling the strings behind the TIE attack on Bo-Katan's castle fortress (so much for automatic defensives). Whomever she's working for no longer needs Pershing, but they need to know what equipment is required to finish his work. We have about 15ish(?) years between this series and TFA, so while there's going to be some work on getting us to that situation leading to Starkiller Base blowing up Hosnian Prime and the First Order rampaging across the galaxy, I don't think this show is intended, like Clone Wars, to do a complete rehabilitation of a trilogy. Even then, Clone Wars did more by allowing more characterization of our major characters.

And to elicit more groans from the "it's not all connected, is it?!" folks, the second season of Bad Batch is definitely digging into the initial beginning of the cloning project that undoubtedly lead us to this moment in Mando. I doubt it's required reading, so to speak, but it's very likely being addressed there.
posted by Atreides at 8:46 AM on March 16, 2023 [4 favorites]


So I went digging around and maybe it's less of an issue than I thought - like we humans are comfortable all the way from sea level to El Alto in Bolivia at 4km. I mean Earth has a lot of mountains over 4km tall (on the order of 600 I guess according to wikipedia), but we've got plate tectonics making things wrinkly, and there's no telling where any given ecumenopolis is on that scale.
posted by Kyol at 9:09 AM on March 16, 2023 [1 favorite]


If the mind-flayer thing conveniently makes Pershing a blank slate except for all his cloning knowledge, that's annoying. But I assume that's what happened.
posted by PussKillian at 9:14 AM on March 16, 2023


Nah, he's gonna wake up all panicky and tell his friends that his brain got melded by Darth Vader of the planet Vulcan.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 9:18 AM on March 16, 2023 [9 favorites]


Pershing is done. They're covering their tracks with regard to the cloning tech (they being whomever is continuing Palpatine's orders from beyond the dead or whatever).
posted by Atreides at 10:50 AM on March 16, 2023 [2 favorites]


I would bet we see Pershing again, but he'll be much....blanker and compliant...than before, and probably perfectly fine with his boring office job.

Yeah, I have no idea if Kane is still secret Empire or not or what level of double reverse triple mole-type thing she is.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:25 AM on March 16, 2023


Attack of the Clones was probably one of the first visual projects to show the lower levels of Coruscant

That depends entirely on how good you were at not falling off platform edges in Star Wars: Dark Forces (1995)
posted by Molesome at 11:34 AM on March 16, 2023 [7 favorites]


Is Pershing pulling on his ear a tell? If so, what was he lying about during his TED talk (or is it his witness?) that maybe Kane noticed? Is she working for the shadow Empire or is she removing (what she thinks are) potential turncoats who have not repented enough?
Sorry for the churchy vocab, I'm not sure what they call these things outside of certain modes of Xianity.
posted by fiercekitten at 12:22 PM on March 16, 2023 [2 favorites]


Is Pershing pulling on his ear a tell?

Cara Dune, before she died on her way back to her home planet, grazed Pershing's ear with a blaster shot last season. It's probably just a nervous gesture from a bit of PTSD when he almost got his head blasted off.
posted by nathan_teske at 1:04 PM on March 16, 2023 [8 favorites]


Not only was Pershing reading The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Star Wars Galaxy, but he was WEARING A BATHROBE AT THE TIME

(Credit for that joke goes to my wife)
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 3:24 PM on March 16, 2023 [4 favorites]


TFA and TLJ could suck less if we knew more about the First Order without resort to whatever ancillary novels and comic books now serve to explain it. So maybe there is a desire to firm up that with Mando Season 3 and 4?

A more economical explanation is that the non-Andor live action story team loves PLOT and ACTION but doesn’t have enough time / patience / interest to make them good. If all that product has a common theme it’s low-effort first draft stories making the shooting script and decent directors and actors and artists trying to do their best with it.
posted by MattD at 7:32 PM on March 16, 2023 [1 favorite]


Who has the recipe for the travel biscuits?
posted by chrchr at 8:28 PM on March 16, 2023 [3 favorites]


Is it just me, or was like, the 90s Expanded Universe a lot better than all of this?
posted by hototogisu at 2:10 AM on March 17, 2023 [2 favorites]


No, the old Expanded Universe was terrible. The problem is that you're comparing your reactions as an impressionable youth to your reactions as a jaded adult. Stop now or end up as Statler or Waldorf.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 2:50 AM on March 17, 2023 [11 favorites]


You can tell Pershing wasn't bullied as a youth. My survival instincts tells me that if a popular kid takes a sudden, seemingly friendly interest in me it can only be for nefarious purposes. Run like the wind!!
posted by orrnyereg at 6:19 AM on March 17, 2023 [7 favorites]


Or at least, didn't watch enough movies. This could have ended one of two ways: One, the mind flayer. Two, he removes his glasses and gets a complete makeover.


As someone deeply influenced by the 90s EU, I don't remember thinking "this isn't good" but when I see people bringing up things from the 90s (and the EU that persisted from it) there are definitely moments where I go, "Oh no." The nice approach going on with the current timeline is that the people behind it were fans of the 80s and 90s EU so things they felt were good are incorporated in some form or manner. The biggest example is Thrawn who, unlike his prior EU predecessor, is going to have a live action portrayal and he's already had more books published by the same author, too. Part of the irony in all of this is that the 90's EU very much was "what happens after Return of the Jedi" and it took a significant amount of time to reach the same point in time as TFA did. Lucasfilm, in part because of not wanting to tie down creators for the sequel trilogy (more JJ Abrams I believe) has done really almost nothing with that time period. This show and Book of Boba Fett were some of the first to tackle the immediate post-Jedi period and even then, it's been taking it's time.

Recently in an interview with Kristen Baver (the Star Wars Show), both Filoni and Favreau made a point that this (and other upcoming Star Wars properties - like the animated kids show) are operating within a connected system of figuring out the connecting points between the movies which represent the big points in the story. Who's to say if a filmmaker still has the power to walk in and completely upend things that have been done on the smaller screen, but for now, F&F are definitely guiding how things go. At the moment, this means there's 1000% more cohesion to everything than there ever was under George Lucas. Heh.
posted by Atreides at 7:20 AM on March 17, 2023 [4 favorites]


The sub-subtext though is that G58/Kane is not only covertly (from Pershing's POV) covertly working for the New Republic, but even more covertly is working for what remains of the Empire. Is she a mole, conditioned to resist the reconditioning that former Imperials are subjected to? And what is her agenda with Pershing? To mind-wipe him? To reverse or subvert his own reconditioning?

My theory is that she is connected to the mention of Moff Gideon disappearing, and she's doing double agent stuff tying up loose ends with Pershing.
posted by Fleebnork at 8:57 AM on March 17, 2023 [1 favorite]


I liked this episode! But I am very easy to please when it comes to this show.

Some terrific helmet acting from Katee Sackhoff and Pedro Pascal/his stunt double here! It was quite moving how Bo Katan, despite clearly having her own agenda, seemed reluctantly moved by the sense of being part of a community again after being on her own for so long.
posted by unicorn chaser at 4:45 PM on March 17, 2023 [3 favorites]


The sub-subtext though is that G58/Kane is not only covertly (from Pershing's POV) covertly working for the New Republic, but even more covertly is working for what remains of the Empire. Is she a mole, conditioned to resist the reconditioning that former Imperials are subjected to? And what is her agenda with Pershing? To mind-wipe him? To reverse or subvert his own reconditioning?

I can't decide yet whether she's trying to wipe Pershing's memory to make sure the Republic don't find out about what Gideon (or the First Order?) are up to or she's trying to make Pershing thing the Republic tortured him to make him switch sides again back to the Empire because they still need his expertise.

Something I enjoyed about Rogue One and Andor was seeing how they tie into A New Hope, because that's obviously a great film and the way it fits together is done well. With The Mandalorian, while I generally really enjoy the show as it starts to tie into the sequel trilogy it feels like a weird anticlimax because I know how disappointing that story is.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 5:58 PM on March 17, 2023 [2 favorites]


Like I think "Oh! They need cloning tech... and Jedi DNA... to create force-sensitive clones! So that Palpatine can make... oh yeah that whole mess. Eh."
posted by EndsOfInvention at 5:58 PM on March 17, 2023 [4 favorites]


The Mouse: "Tony, what's your pitch?"

Tony: "Well, I always wanted to explore the Rebel spies managed to steal secret plans to the Empire's ultimate weapon part of the episode IV crawl. I think there's a lot of material to mine there just from those few words... "

The Mouse: "Nice. Dave, Jon... guys, can you put down the action figures for a second? Thanks. Ok, what's your pitch?"

As one: "The dead speak!"
posted by Molesome at 4:24 AM on March 18, 2023 [4 favorites]


I feel Pershing's story would have worked better if it'd been split out into short scenes cut into the first three episodes instead of all dumped into ep 3. That felt very strange to me. I think from memory the first two eps were about 35 minutes each and this was nearly an hour - why not have three eps of similar length and tease out Pershing's plot a bit more? Maybe they felt that would've ruined the pacing of 1 and 2. I dunno, the sudden change of focus to two characters we barely know didn't really work for me.

There is SO MUCH in the SW universe that makes no sense at all. And I know - truly I do know - that the logistics of how the SW world works isn't the point, and usually I am able to ignore the sillier stuff, but I'm fast reaching the point where I just can't anymore. The decommissioning of the Star Destroyer stops at night... in a universe that has droids that can work round the clock. The train has droid ticket inspectors, because clearly THAT is the most efficient solution to automatic ticketing in a high-tech environment. They use a droid to monitor Pershing's state of mind and it's a droid which apparently has no programming that allows it to interpret any of the subtleties of human emotional states - use a human to do that, for goodness' sake. It only makes sense if droids are very cheap labour, but in Andor one of the reasons given for using humans to work in the prison factory is that they're cheaper than droids.

Actually, the one minor detail that really bothered me in this ep was the New Republic making the Imperials use alphanumeric designations instead of their names. That felt unnecessarily depersonalising, and much more the kind of thing the Empire would have done. Although perhaps that's partly the point - that the New Republic is harder-edged than we might have liked to think. Or perhaps it's partly a witness-protection thing, to make it harder for ex-Imperials to be tracked down. It reminded me of one of the few bits of the sequel trilogy I really like, which is that bit at the start of the Force Awakens where Poe names Finn because he flat-out refuses to use his Stormtrooper designation. Maybe we're supposed to see that parallel, and see a line between the way the New Republic is treating the ex-Imperials here and the eventual rise of the New Order.
posted by damsel with a dulcimer at 5:00 AM on March 18, 2023 [8 favorites]


why not have three eps of similar length and tease out Pershing's plot a bit more?

My best guess about the weird structural choice here is that they were too in love with the episode's title applying to both stories.

They use a droid to monitor Pershing's state of mind and it's a droid which apparently has no programming that allows it to interpret any of the subtleties of human emotional states - use a human to do that, for goodness' sake.

This bit, I bought—as a reflection of the fledgling (and doubtlessly credit-strained) New Republic's priorities. Sapients who are good at reading Human emotions would be direly needed elsewhere.

Actually, the one minor detail that really bothered me in this ep was the New Republic making the Imperials use alphanumeric designations instead of their names. That felt unnecessarily depersonalising, and much more the kind of thing the Empire would have done.

Yes. The horrible thought I had w/r/t the Amnesty thing is that this show and/or Mouse canon in general is gonna try both-sidesing the New Republic/Empire/First Order conflict. An unreasonable fear, perhaps, but if it comes to pass, I am for-fucking-ever done with this franchise, into which I have invested probably more than even Star Trek, effort- and cash-wise.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 5:53 AM on March 18, 2023 [1 favorite]


I remember reading a theory somewhere that the Nuremberg Rally-ish imagery at the end of the original Star Wars movie was supposed to be a deliberate hint that the Rebel Alliance would turn into something like the Empire.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 9:21 AM on March 18, 2023 [2 favorites]


I love the original trilogy, saw it at an impressionable age, it formed some of the bedrock of my psyche. And there is nothing on earth that will convince me that ANYTHING about ANY OF IT was deliberate.
posted by MrBadExample at 10:25 AM on March 18, 2023 [11 favorites]


My thought about the numeric designations wasn’t that the New Republic was forcing it on them, but it was the identity they were most comfortable with following the dehumanization used by the Empire.
posted by Atreides at 2:52 PM on March 18, 2023


What a weird episode. Like...dang, I've just got to think about this. Tonally, it was so uneven, like Star Wars often is. Definitely it felt like the creatives on this show got jealous of how good Andor was and decided they wanted to go in that direction but it just isn't quite smart enough of a show to stick that landing.

Like others in this thread I was just bothered by how nonsensical a lot of it was. Why do the amnesty program guys even HAVE regular old blending-in street clothes? Why was anything of value left on that Star Destroyer? This is Coruscant, you guys, there are billions of sentients living in the most abject poverty in the lower levels, that ship had no security and ought to have been picked through within MINUTES of landing there. Why even KEEP it on Coruscant, a planet with very little empty real estate??? And most importantly, why did the hot butch claim she liked the red cookies and then at the end of the episode she sinisterly ate a yellow one?? Why lie about that??

So cute wee yodicito is trying to say "this is the way" now though
posted by potrzebie at 11:25 PM on March 18, 2023 [11 favorites]


WHY WOULD THE DIAL STILL GO UP TO "MIND FLAY"
posted by ominous_paws at 1:41 PM on March 19, 2023 [21 favorites]


That goes in the same "Where is Space OSHA?" pile as all the walkways with no railings.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 2:00 PM on March 19, 2023 [13 favorites]


Lolol yes!! Hahaha it's so funny that there's a machine called a MIND FLAYER but at low intensity it's more like a ~mind tickler~ but if someone bumps the control panel with their hip by accident, whoops, just flayed someone's mind
posted by potrzebie at 5:23 PM on March 19, 2023 [10 favorites]


the bureaucratic cubicle farm that he worked in

Reminded me a bit of Brazil (with nicer lighting).
posted by fairmettle at 8:50 PM on March 19, 2023 [3 favorites]


Good episode. Gives me hope that the rest of the season won't be about the stupid Space Pirates.

I am actually kind of loving how much all the shows are going all in on "Star Wars -- A Galaxy Far Far Away And With NO HEALTH AND SAFETY REGULATIONS WHATSOEVER". Put no guardrails between cars on the hover train? Leave someone alone in the room with the Mindflayer controls? Sure, why not! WE INVENTED ANTIGRAVITY TECHNOLOGY BEFORE THE WHEEL AND STRONG AI BEFORE A DECENT GRAPHICS CARD! WHAT ARE YOUR RULES TO US?!
posted by kyrademon at 3:03 PM on March 20, 2023 [10 favorites]




Is that the same recipe as Ted Lasso's?
posted by pwnguin at 11:25 PM on April 4, 2023 [3 favorites]


Was there a reason they didn’t just pay a space token to get on the space subway? Or was that just so they could have the totally plausible droid ticket-takers chase them to the end of the train and force them to jump off? I guess whatever lengths you gotta go to to make mass transit seem interesting.

Bo Katan being offered membership in the club was the first surprising moment of the season.
posted by skewed at 10:32 PM on April 8, 2023


WHY WOULD THE DIAL STILL GO UP TO "MIND FLAY"
posted by ominous_paws at 1:41 PM on March 19 [19 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]


probably the same reason we use Nazi chemical weapons technology to do all conventional US agriculture
posted by eustatic at 5:51 PM on April 16, 2023


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