The Gilded Age: In Terms of Winning and Losing

December 18, 2023 11:03 AM - Season 2, Episode 8

The van Rhijn staff question their employment. Jack's patent is approved. Peggy wins for local schools, ponders leaving NY Globe. Marian reveals feelings to Dashiell. Bertha and Mrs. Astor make final opera war maneuvers.

Thoughts

• Dead husband secret fortune for the win! (And nice bit of elbowing earlier in the episode with Dashiell reminding Ada not to sit too long on the papers)
• Armstrong still can't help but be a pill
• Aunt Agnes is definitely more flexible than I'd have expected (see the failed engagement, empathy to Armstrong), but very dramatically quippy
• Ada is certainly on the ball catching the fact that you don't say you're paying for a wedding to your dead wife
• Bannister is even faster on the ball with knowing where his bread is buttered (boy, won't that be interesting)
• Larrian is definitely the end game, isn't it - but where's the pregnant widow? Personally, I'm much more invested in Mr Borden and Mrs Bruce
• George is definitely not going to love the "sell my daughter to buy a Duke" tactic taken by Bertha. Worse than TunerBedGate?

posted by drewbage1847 (14 comments total)

The reveal of the empty Academy vs the full Met was thrilling. You go Bertha!

I look forward to Ada in Command for Season 3. Something tells me Agnes won't go quietly!

I am so bored by Marion and Larry. Maybe with different casting it would be exciting but I do not find the chemistry between the two believable.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:13 AM on December 18, 2023 [2 favorites]

I know Watson said he was leaving, but did we get solid confirmation that his daughter lined everything up properly? I figured she'd get run over by a horse or something.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:14 AM on December 18, 2023 [1 favorite]

No confirmation on that. I hope he gets a rare Julian Fellowes happy ending.

Also forgot to add - Bertha's green outfit at the Met was a full fledged "New Money Battleship" gown. And the reveal that Bertha actually was the one who outed Ms. Turner/Mrs Winterton - mean woman!
posted by drewbage1847 at 11:17 AM on December 18, 2023 [1 favorite]

The drama and tension that they tried to create showing which opera house the Duke would show up to was hilarious considering how much of a doofus he is.

Bannister is even faster on the ball with knowing where his bread is buttered

Howled at this.
posted by jimw at 1:26 PM on December 18, 2023 [5 favorites]

I am so bored by Marion and Larry.

Same, and yet it still manages to be less boring than the previous two matches. And I support anything that will provide more future angst for Agnes.

While I generally find the style of new money/Gilded Age NYC kinda gross, it absolutely works in the opera house - some spaces wear gaudiness better, I guess.

Very excited for Ada to be calling the shots - that scene got a chuckle out of me.
posted by coffeecat at 10:35 AM on December 19, 2023 [2 favorites]

I cannot help but hear Bannister's lines come from Arthur Dent's mouth due to overlistening to the Hitchhiker's radio series in my youth, and I am delighted that he has finally found a job where he has mastery over as many cups of tea as he wishes. HIs final line after the inheritance reveal was a glorious masterwork of understatement, though.

I can't help but note that was another Julian Fellowes' patent "terrible situation miraculously resolved by someone reading a piece of paper". See also the resolution to the Valet in Prison storyline in Downton, and countless others.
posted by Sparx at 12:24 PM on December 19, 2023 [2 favorites]

This had the feel of not setting up much for the next season. Looking it up, it hasn't been confirmed as yet, but neither is it definitely off
posted by biffa at 3:25 PM on December 19, 2023

I’d phrase it more like they didn’t leave any major storylines unresolved, while putting all the pieces in place for a new season if one comes. It’s a neat thing to pull off: leaving you wanting more but not too upset if it doesn’t come.
posted by cardboard at 4:25 PM on December 19, 2023 [2 favorites]

I'll be sad to see the end of Watson. I hope he comes back at just the right moment later on.

When we realize that Bertha has promised her daughter to the duke, that's the first time I realized that she's more ruthless than George. Then the reveal that she did tip off Mrs. Astor about Turner. Bertha is cold-blooded, and I'm very curious to see Carrie Coons and Christine Baranski in a scene negotiating Marion and Larry's connection. Bertha and Agnes might be my two favorite characters too.

I'm so pleased that Marion and Frances reconciled their relationship apart from Dashiell. I needed to know that Frances wasn't crushed by the broken engagement.

I can't quite see what a happy ending looks like for Oscar, but I really want to see him get one.
posted by gladly at 6:00 PM on December 19, 2023 [1 favorite]

I agree that they wrapped up the obvious big threads to make folks satisfied if they didn't get a third season.

Threads that could be picked up:

• Larrian/Marry - that's a whole negotiation and I'm still waiting for the pregnant widow!
• Borden/Mrs Gates - my one true ship
• Labor - they put a ticking clock on the resolution and we still haven't seen George be a real shit
• Gladys - Are they going to go full Consuleo Vanderbilt with her?
• Ada/Agnes - The new power dynamic
• Oscar's redemption
• The Panic of 1884
• What happens with the clock (everyone's favorite subplot)
• Does anyone ever manage to the pole out of Armstrong's backside?

posted by drewbage1847 at 7:27 PM on December 19, 2023 [2 favorites]

No real surprises here for me. I keep hoping something more interesting will happen with these characters, but Fellowes is always determined to keep storylines fairly tame and easy to digest.

It's interesting to me how ruthless, driven, petty, and cunning Bertha is portrayed, in contrast to George, who I have to say has been depicted as an unbelievably even tempered, wise, even pleasant, and fair man. He's shown to be pretty honest and straight for a robber baron, with much self discipline, well in control of his wants and needs. He seems to have a code that forces him to have some respect to anyone willing to stand up for themselves and their loved ones, but willing to meet treachery in kind. These are rather broadly admirable traits. Which Bertha hasn't been shown to have. Her use of money and power allows her to avoid resorting to knife fights to reach her goals. You get the feeling she won't be satisfied until everyone is grovelling at her feet for her scraps.

It would be neat to see George exhibit some reprehensible weak spots, but he always just comes off as the even keeled, wise man. And kind of boring.

I'd like to see George express some complicated feelings when he realizes that Bertha is selling their daughter for a chance to be king of the hill. Knowing the way Fellowes does things, I suspect it'll play out in the span of 15 minutes sometime next season. But I think there's a lot of meat on that bone if he's willing to go there.

Maybe Oscar will come relatively out, now that he's got almost nothing to lose. What else has he got going on? Hounded by his mother for the rest of his life?

I was afraid Frances was going to go wacko upon finding out about the marriage falling through. Something about her character weirded me out. I'm satisfied they didn't go there.

I do love Mrs. Fish. No subterfuge or hidden agendas. She's just there to call it like she sees it.

I guess Watson is looking forward to a more respectable and secure life as a retired banker. I don't quite understand why he has to cut ties to his friends/coworkers, but maybe propriety takes priority here?

Actually, all the servants are pretty nice except Armstrong, and even she gets some sympathy when we get that glimpse of her miserable personal life away from service.
posted by 2N2222 at 8:18 PM on December 20, 2023 [1 favorite]

I'd like to see George express some complicated feelings when he realizes that Bertha is selling their daughter for a chance to be king of the hill. Knowing the way Fellowes does things, I suspect it'll play out in the span of 15 minutes sometime next season.

They are going to fall in love, which will make all that all right. Then move back to Downton his mansion and live happy ever after although without male issue.
posted by biffa at 4:43 AM on December 21, 2023 [1 favorite]

I have learned via Kelley Curran's (Turner) IG that the hashtag #MusclesBehindTheRussells exist and is used by the downstairs cast.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:59 PM on December 22, 2023

I think George is reprehensible enough. Took him long enough to tell the national guard to stand down. He’s just not 100% pure evil. In the Julian Fellowes universe, many of the main characters have a mix of good and bad qualities that alternate to sustain the melodrama. There’s “villain with some redeeming qualities” (George), “villain who is plucky enough that you sort of root for them,” (Bertha), “heroine who is kind of pathetic at first,” (Marian), and of course, “heroine who seems like a villain because she is stubborn and kind of mean sometimes,” (Agnes). Then there’s also, “villain with a sympathetic back story,” (Armstrong). Then there are some characters who are allowed to be 100% good, but tragic things happen to them.
posted by mai at 12:49 PM on December 30, 2023