Shogun: The Eightfold Fence Show Only
March 12, 2024 1:07 PM - Season 1, Episode 4 - Subscribe
Blackthorne and Mariko test their new alliance as they train Toranaga's gun regiment for war. Yabushige must navigate his past promises to Ishido when an old friend comes to the village.
The first episode to be predominantly focused on Blackthorne, although Hiroyuki Sanada still gets top billing ahead of Cosmo Jarvis. By comparison, Chamberlain was always billed ahead of Toshirô Mifune for the 1980 miniseries. To think, Mifune did Shōgun (1980) instead of Kagemusha (1980), although maybe falling out with Akira Kurosawa made that decision easier.
The first episode to be predominantly focused on Blackthorne, although Hiroyuki Sanada still gets top billing ahead of Cosmo Jarvis. By comparison, Chamberlain was always billed ahead of Toshirô Mifune for the 1980 miniseries. To think, Mifune did Shōgun (1980) instead of Kagemusha (1980), although maybe falling out with Akira Kurosawa made that decision easier.
The absolute madness of having some hidden cannons firing *on their own position* was a great end to this episode. I knew the son was going to do something crazy, but I didn't expect that!
What was the stinky food Blackthorne was eating with the ladies?
posted by ssmith at 3:50 PM on March 12 [4 favorites]
What was the stinky food Blackthorne was eating with the ladies?
posted by ssmith at 3:50 PM on March 12 [4 favorites]
I could not see who came in after the lamp was blown out. It was Mariko-sama, no?
posted by ob1quixote at 8:03 PM on March 12 [1 favorite]
posted by ob1quixote at 8:03 PM on March 12 [1 favorite]
I griped about the previous episode, but this one felt like a return to form. I thought the romance was a little rushed, but I understand why, given the format.
In my memory of the books, Blackthorne and Mariko would speak both Portuguese and Latin to one another. I specifically remember Blackthorne switching to Latin to be romantic, and the book would signal the change by switching to "thee" and "thou". I also remember him saying crude things in English and then translating them to more refined language in Portuguese. The show loses some of these nuance, but on the flip side Mariko gets to be in on the joke when Blackthorne gets colorful with his language.
posted by jomato at 10:09 PM on March 12 [2 favorites]
In my memory of the books, Blackthorne and Mariko would speak both Portuguese and Latin to one another. I specifically remember Blackthorne switching to Latin to be romantic, and the book would signal the change by switching to "thee" and "thou". I also remember him saying crude things in English and then translating them to more refined language in Portuguese. The show loses some of these nuance, but on the flip side Mariko gets to be in on the joke when Blackthorne gets colorful with his language.
posted by jomato at 10:09 PM on March 12 [2 favorites]
I could not see who came in after the lamp was blown out. It was Mariko-sama, no?I believe so: while it was quite dark, the woman in Blackthorne's room has the same profile and clothes as Mariko-sama. She's deceiving Blackthorne with the story of sending the village's local courtesan to cover for her own desires and indiscretions, preserving her own honor... while also protecting Fuji-sama, who might otherwise be expected to be intimate with Blackthorne. Plans within plans.
I very much agree with you, jomato: this episode felt like a real return to form. I understand the requirement to show some of Blackthorne's virtues, but I felt that the previous episode rather overplayed its hand in that regard; this episode, with Blackthorne expressing his complete ignorance of infantry tactics, and turning to the superiority of his ship's cannon instead (which really were far better than the Portuguese arms of the time) is a much better development, while also serving to cement his culpability in the war to come.
posted by Bora Horza Gobuchul at 10:45 PM on March 12 [1 favorite]
If the courtesan wasn't wearing a crucifix then it wasn't Mariko, because Mariko always wears her crucifix and would never take it off.
posted by Molesome at 12:14 AM on March 13 [1 favorite]
posted by Molesome at 12:14 AM on March 13 [1 favorite]
The absolute madness of having some hidden cannons firing *on their own position* was a great end to this episode.
The episode did lay a lot of groundwork for the gunnery with the cannons being very accurate, though.
Also, this bit of nasty foreshadowing, from Blackthorne drilling the gunners just before Jozen's arrival:
The episode did lay a lot of groundwork for the gunnery with the cannons being very accurate, though.
Also, this bit of nasty foreshadowing, from Blackthorne drilling the gunners just before Jozen's arrival:
Now, the chain shot increases the radius within which the damage occurs. And the nature of the damage itself. You’ll see, you’ll see.posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 2:15 AM on March 13 [3 favorites]
I believe so: while it was quite dark, the woman in Blackthorne's room has the same profile and clothes as Mariko-sama. She's deceiving Blackthorne with the story of sending the village's local courtesan to cover for her own desires and indiscretions, preserving her own honor... while also protecting Fuji-sama, who might otherwise be expected to be intimate with Blackthorne.
I thought the subtext of the morning-after conversation was "we're all going to pretend it was the local courtesan, okay?" hence his brief confusion and then going along with the pretense that it was a "gift."
posted by BungaDunga at 10:29 AM on March 13 [8 favorites]
I thought the subtext of the morning-after conversation was "we're all going to pretend it was the local courtesan, okay?" hence his brief confusion and then going along with the pretense that it was a "gift."
posted by BungaDunga at 10:29 AM on March 13 [8 favorites]
that was some of the most gruesome battle injury scenery I have ever seen!!! daaaaaamn that was brutal!
agreed, very strong ep.
posted by supermedusa at 11:52 AM on March 13
agreed, very strong ep.
posted by supermedusa at 11:52 AM on March 13
Two scenes I liked: the arrival to the village and Yabushige's men shouting "Yabushige-sama...Ho!" in greeting and Yabushige looking proud and pleased. Then Toranaga steps up, gives a rousing speech ending with a "humble bow to you" and the army, seemingly directed by his fan, fully commits "Toranaga-sama! Ho!" This goes on and on while Yabushige turns away and is chagrined to see that Toranaga is on his way back to the ship.
The other is Fuji, foisted upon Blackthorne. She apologises to Mariko after her outburst, for forgetting about Buntaro but the poor woman's husband just ritually killed their infant son before committing seppuku and I think that gives her the edge. (I know Mariko is supposed to be the heroine in all this but until her no doubt equally sad back story is revealed, she's beginning to irk me). But it's Fuji, given the hand guns at the confrontation, who steps up to the plate, not the customarily diplomatic Mariko.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 9:47 PM on March 14
The other is Fuji, foisted upon Blackthorne. She apologises to Mariko after her outburst, for forgetting about Buntaro but the poor woman's husband just ritually killed their infant son before committing seppuku and I think that gives her the edge. (I know Mariko is supposed to be the heroine in all this but until her no doubt equally sad back story is revealed, she's beginning to irk me). But it's Fuji, given the hand guns at the confrontation, who steps up to the plate, not the customarily diplomatic Mariko.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 9:47 PM on March 14
I thought it was pretty funny how Blackthorne was all "Well, good morning to you TOO, my little cutie pie" and trying to be all flirtatious and snuggly, and Mariko just plays it off casually, "Oh, you liked the courtesan? That's nice."
I loved when Fuji stepped up to Nephew-Yabushige, forcing him to back down. He could threaten Anjin-Sama -- after all, he's just a barbarian -- but when a proper Japanese lady steps in and does her duty as consort, then he can't risk breaking protocol and insulting her.
For some reason, whenever Blackthorne says, "the JA-pans", I laugh a little.
posted by Saxon Kane at 5:08 PM on March 26
I loved when Fuji stepped up to Nephew-Yabushige, forcing him to back down. He could threaten Anjin-Sama -- after all, he's just a barbarian -- but when a proper Japanese lady steps in and does her duty as consort, then he can't risk breaking protocol and insulting her.
For some reason, whenever Blackthorne says, "the JA-pans", I laugh a little.
posted by Saxon Kane at 5:08 PM on March 26
They really earned that “graphic violence” tag at the end there, whoa.
Wonder what Yabushige’s play is going to be now that the road back to Ishido would seem to be closed thanks to nephew Omi’s cunning plan. I really like Yabushige, I mean he sucks, but in a compelling way, and he’s got one of the great faces. I’d previously seen his actor, Tadanobu Asano, in Survive Style 5+, which is a wild movie that people should see.
The actual courtesan is totally Toranaga’s spy, of course.
posted by rodlymight at 6:30 PM on March 26 [1 favorite]
Wonder what Yabushige’s play is going to be now that the road back to Ishido would seem to be closed thanks to nephew Omi’s cunning plan. I really like Yabushige, I mean he sucks, but in a compelling way, and he’s got one of the great faces. I’d previously seen his actor, Tadanobu Asano, in Survive Style 5+, which is a wild movie that people should see.
The actual courtesan is totally Toranaga’s spy, of course.
posted by rodlymight at 6:30 PM on March 26 [1 favorite]
He also starred as Temujin in 2007's Mongol: The Rise of Genghis Khan, which never got its sequel.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 6:42 PM on March 26 [1 favorite]
posted by ActingTheGoat at 6:42 PM on March 26 [1 favorite]
Yabushige also has the coolest outfit, with the feather vest or quarter cape or whatever it is
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:54 AM on March 27 [2 favorites]
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:54 AM on March 27 [2 favorites]
Yabushige also has the coolest outfit, with the feather vest or quarter cape or whatever it is
It is a jinbaori, a coat which you can wear over armor. The styles and materials can vary wildly.
Here is one purportedly owned by Toyotomi Hideyoshi (the Taiko in the show), made out of a Persian rug.
posted by ishmael at 11:10 AM on March 27 [2 favorites]
It is a jinbaori, a coat which you can wear over armor. The styles and materials can vary wildly.
Here is one purportedly owned by Toyotomi Hideyoshi (the Taiko in the show), made out of a Persian rug.
posted by ishmael at 11:10 AM on March 27 [2 favorites]
I loved when Fuji stepped up to Nephew-Yabushige, forcing him to back down.
Lady Fuji's performance on this show has been *chef's kiss*! I'm always waiting in every episode for her pitch-perfect reactions to anything.
posted by ishmael at 12:11 PM on March 27 [2 favorites]
Lady Fuji's performance on this show has been *chef's kiss*! I'm always waiting in every episode for her pitch-perfect reactions to anything.
posted by ishmael at 12:11 PM on March 27 [2 favorites]
I haven't watched the original since it aired, so it's amusing what little bits survived the decades in my memory. I remember the morning after scene having a bit more detail about the woman being given Mariko's perfume etc.
It is a jinbaori, a coat which you can wear over armor. The styles and materials can vary wildly.
The show podcast had an interview with the costumer, and she mentioned how she was happy to discover there were no rules for jinbaori, so she was able to give Yabushige such a distinctive look.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:45 PM on April 6 [1 favorite]
It is a jinbaori, a coat which you can wear over armor. The styles and materials can vary wildly.
The show podcast had an interview with the costumer, and she mentioned how she was happy to discover there were no rules for jinbaori, so she was able to give Yabushige such a distinctive look.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:45 PM on April 6 [1 favorite]
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The mention of tragedies of doomed lovers and cursed kings really lays the foreboding on pretty thick but the scene worked to elevate the narrative in my opinion.
posted by Molesome at 1:13 PM on March 12 [1 favorite]