Old Joy (2006)
January 2, 2025 8:58 AM - Subscribe
[TRAILER] Soon to be a father, Mark (Daniel London) feels the pressure of domestic responsibility closing in, so he is more than happy to accept when his old friend Kurt (Will Oldham) proposes a camping trip in the Oregon wilderness. During their time together, the men come to grips with the changes in their lives and the effect on their relationship.
Written, directed, and edited by Kelly Reichardt. Based on a short story by Jonathan Raymond. Produced by Lars Knudsen, Neil Kopp, Anish Savjani, Jay Van Hoy for Film Science/Van Hoy/Knudsen Productions/Washington Square Films Distributed by Kino International. Cinematography by Peter Sillen. Music by Yo La Tengo.
85% fresh on Rotten Tomatoes.
Currently streaming in the US on Max and Criterion. JustWatch listing.
Written, directed, and edited by Kelly Reichardt. Based on a short story by Jonathan Raymond. Produced by Lars Knudsen, Neil Kopp, Anish Savjani, Jay Van Hoy for Film Science/Van Hoy/Knudsen Productions/Washington Square Films Distributed by Kino International. Cinematography by Peter Sillen. Music by Yo La Tengo.
85% fresh on Rotten Tomatoes.
Currently streaming in the US on Max and Criterion. JustWatch listing.
Will Oldham like Bonny Prince Billy?
posted by Lawn Beaver at 12:07 PM on January 2
posted by Lawn Beaver at 12:07 PM on January 2
Yep!
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:24 PM on January 2
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:24 PM on January 2
I've only seen this once, and it remains unforgettable and lodged in my head. I have always wanted to visit Bagby Hot Springs, but I am sure I would be disapppointed by differences from how it feels in the film, especially if it's always crowded with visitors now decades later.
Ebert gave this a rave review in 2006 that's worth reading in full: "What does Kurt want from Mark? Is it lost brotherhood, agape; or is there a sexual component, or does he just wish Mark could give him back the old days, and old joys, of their younger selves? Those questions, which linger long after the movie is over, make 'Old Joy' unshakable."
I guess I interpreted the meaning of one scene at the hot springs as implying a sexual physical connection in their friendship. It's very ambiguous but adds to the bittersweet feeling of the whole.
posted by lizard music at 12:35 PM on January 3 [2 favorites]
Ebert gave this a rave review in 2006 that's worth reading in full: "What does Kurt want from Mark? Is it lost brotherhood, agape; or is there a sexual component, or does he just wish Mark could give him back the old days, and old joys, of their younger selves? Those questions, which linger long after the movie is over, make 'Old Joy' unshakable."
I guess I interpreted the meaning of one scene at the hot springs as implying a sexual physical connection in their friendship. It's very ambiguous but adds to the bittersweet feeling of the whole.
posted by lizard music at 12:35 PM on January 3 [2 favorites]
Also, Will Oldham AKA Bonnie 'Prince' Billy has had a handful of movie roles over the years. He is astonishing as a teenager in the 1987 John Sayles' movie 'Matewan'.
posted by lizard music at 12:38 PM on January 3 [1 favorite]
posted by lizard music at 12:38 PM on January 3 [1 favorite]
me: *sees anodyne DOT description of film*
me: *read comments to see if anyone gets put in a shredder*
posted by praemunire at 12:41 PM on January 3
me: *read comments to see if anyone gets put in a shredder*
posted by praemunire at 12:41 PM on January 3
Don't worry, praemunire, I will never sneak up on anyone with horror. I always tag horror as horror.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:34 PM on January 5 [3 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:34 PM on January 5 [3 favorites]
I watched this for film class last spring, and a young friend in my film class watched just recently. As a 50-year old it struck a lot of deep chords; I've had similar experiences, less road-trippy, but times where I'm talking to an old friend who feels both like a stranger but also closer than anyone I currently know because they knew me during formative years, and there's a certain fear of being as open as you once were but also regret at not having that connection any more. The younger friend could see what the film was trying to say but readily acknowledged that it probably will make more sense when they're older.
One thing that struck me that I think the younger people in class didn't get: the beardy friend who was kind of weird was the only one making actual effort to reconnect; he was being proactive, and although being very uncomfortable about it, he showed more interest in connecting than new-dad was. The hot springs scene was intimate, but in new-dad accepting closeness from beardo for the first time. Society today sees "intimate" as "sexual" and that adds to difficulty in men having close relationships.
posted by AzraelBrown at 9:45 AM on January 6 [5 favorites]
One thing that struck me that I think the younger people in class didn't get: the beardy friend who was kind of weird was the only one making actual effort to reconnect; he was being proactive, and although being very uncomfortable about it, he showed more interest in connecting than new-dad was. The hot springs scene was intimate, but in new-dad accepting closeness from beardo for the first time. Society today sees "intimate" as "sexual" and that adds to difficulty in men having close relationships.
posted by AzraelBrown at 9:45 AM on January 6 [5 favorites]
That's a really spot-on review, AB.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:55 AM on January 6 [3 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:55 AM on January 6 [3 favorites]
IMO "two dudes naked in a hot tub is sexual" is a viewpoint unschooled in the culture of the west coast, which more or less mandates nudity for all in hot tubs and springs.
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:13 PM on January 6 [1 favorite]
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:13 PM on January 6 [1 favorite]
It's been a bunch of years since I've seen this film. I loved it at the time and I'm overdue for a re-watch. I still listen to some of the tracks from the excellent score by Yo La Tengo, especially Leaving Home.
I just discovered Fanfare and looking forward to digging into it more!
posted by pilibeen at 3:34 PM on January 6 [1 favorite]
I just discovered Fanfare and looking forward to digging into it more!
posted by pilibeen at 3:34 PM on January 6 [1 favorite]
"two dudes naked in a hot tub is sexual"
They weren't even in the same hot-tub, they're individual bathtub-like tubs next to each other; where people get the "sexual" part is the guy with a beard gets out of his tub, does something (I think he even puts his pants on), then comes over to new-dad in his tub and without asking starts to gives new-dad a shoulder rub; new-dad is initially resistant but then relaxes and accepts the backrub. It is just a backrub, it doesn't progress beyond that unless you want to read into things that don't appear on the screen, which may be intentionally ambiguous.
(in the credits there's a cute disclaimer that this hot springs does not allow nudity nor alcohol when bathing, despite both appearing in the film)
posted by AzraelBrown at 7:28 AM on January 7 [1 favorite]
They weren't even in the same hot-tub, they're individual bathtub-like tubs next to each other; where people get the "sexual" part is the guy with a beard gets out of his tub, does something (I think he even puts his pants on), then comes over to new-dad in his tub and without asking starts to gives new-dad a shoulder rub; new-dad is initially resistant but then relaxes and accepts the backrub. It is just a backrub, it doesn't progress beyond that unless you want to read into things that don't appear on the screen, which may be intentionally ambiguous.
(in the credits there's a cute disclaimer that this hot springs does not allow nudity nor alcohol when bathing, despite both appearing in the film)
posted by AzraelBrown at 7:28 AM on January 7 [1 favorite]
Kelly Reichardt I think got unfairly tagged as part of the mumblecore scene when this one was released. Mumblecore in my opinion was mostly just bad sub-Cassavetes poseur naivety (tho most of that crowd went on to do much better less navel gazing work). Saying that with Old Joy, I didn't connect to this one at all (at the time - but I might revisit at some point) though I do think she is an accomplished director (her later work is far superior to this one IMO).
My take at the time, was that I personally got the feeling that the two once had had a sexually intimate relationship and intense friendship in the past but they had moved on from it with time. While they still cared for each other, the Beardo wasn't sure what to do with those feelings so was always trying to connect and deal with the type of intimacy he craved ignoring his friend's needs. Beardo struck me as a bit of an arrested adolescent maybe even broken while the new dad was struggling to relate to his friend and craving some release from the stresses of being a new parent and an adulthood which his friend couldn't or wouldn't understand.
posted by Ashwagandha at 11:44 AM on January 7 [1 favorite]
My take at the time, was that I personally got the feeling that the two once had had a sexually intimate relationship and intense friendship in the past but they had moved on from it with time. While they still cared for each other, the Beardo wasn't sure what to do with those feelings so was always trying to connect and deal with the type of intimacy he craved ignoring his friend's needs. Beardo struck me as a bit of an arrested adolescent maybe even broken while the new dad was struggling to relate to his friend and craving some release from the stresses of being a new parent and an adulthood which his friend couldn't or wouldn't understand.
posted by Ashwagandha at 11:44 AM on January 7 [1 favorite]
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posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:58 AM on January 2