Better Man (2024)
January 10, 2025 6:26 AM - Subscribe
Follow Robbie Williams' journey from childhood, to being the youngest member of chart-topping boyband Take That, through to his unparalleled achievements as a record-breaking solo artist, all the while confronting the challenges that stratospheric fame and success can bring.
I really want to see this just because using a CGI chimp as Robbie Williams himself is a wild as hell decision.
(I did like Rock DJ, though. It's a fun song!)
posted by Kitteh at 7:24 AM on January 10 [1 favorite]
(I did like Rock DJ, though. It's a fun song!)
posted by Kitteh at 7:24 AM on January 10 [1 favorite]
I realize how very peripheral this is to the music career storyline, but does the movie spend any time at all on his hobby of UFO investigation?
My understanding is that he is extremely serious about that and part of his motivation for backing off from music was to focus on that for a while.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:54 AM on January 10 [2 favorites]
My understanding is that he is extremely serious about that and part of his motivation for backing off from music was to focus on that for a while.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:54 AM on January 10 [2 favorites]
does the movie spend any time at all on his hobby of UFO investigation?
Sorry, I didn't see anything UFO related. I don't know much about Robbie Williams' history but it seems like the film stopped around 2010 after googling when he went first into addiction treatment? From what I've read it's extremely dramatized and not strictly historical. The film is really focused on his relationships and less on his career, other than when the career affected relationships.
posted by AzraelBrown at 8:04 AM on January 10
Sorry, I didn't see anything UFO related. I don't know much about Robbie Williams' history but it seems like the film stopped around 2010 after googling when he went first into addiction treatment? From what I've read it's extremely dramatized and not strictly historical. The film is really focused on his relationships and less on his career, other than when the career affected relationships.
posted by AzraelBrown at 8:04 AM on January 10
I was in the U.K. and heard his name mentioned as if I, an American, should know who he was. (I did not.)
Some years later I found out he was a pop star who hadn't crossed the Atlantic -- so when I saw his name attached to this movie I thought maybe taking a voiceover gig (on, what, a rougher version of "Sing"?)was a desperate ploy to get noticed here.
...And then I read on this very page that the movie is the story of explicitly his life and I simply stopped cold: who in the U.S. has been crying out for a Robbie Williams origin story biopic, much less an allegorical one? Like, Lady Gaga was in a remark of "A Star is Born," but they didn't rename the protagonist "Lady Gaga"!
I guess what I am saying is, if this is good it will be great, but otherwise it will be gone in a week.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:43 AM on January 10 [1 favorite]
Some years later I found out he was a pop star who hadn't crossed the Atlantic -- so when I saw his name attached to this movie I thought maybe taking a voiceover gig (on, what, a rougher version of "Sing"?)was a desperate ploy to get noticed here.
...And then I read on this very page that the movie is the story of explicitly his life and I simply stopped cold: who in the U.S. has been crying out for a Robbie Williams origin story biopic, much less an allegorical one? Like, Lady Gaga was in a remark of "A Star is Born," but they didn't rename the protagonist "Lady Gaga"!
I guess what I am saying is, if this is good it will be great, but otherwise it will be gone in a week.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:43 AM on January 10 [1 favorite]
From what I've read it's extremely dramatized and not strictly historical.
And he's not an actual monkey neither.
posted by biffa at 11:15 AM on January 10 [6 favorites]
And he's not an actual monkey neither.
posted by biffa at 11:15 AM on January 10 [6 favorites]
I haven't seen the film (and probably won't) but I am endlessly amused by the discourse around it, with the American's mainly going "who the hell is Robbie Williams?".
For context, Robbie Williams was capital-H Huge for a fair chunk of the late 90s-2000s, with several massive albums. The closest USA comparison would probably be Justin Timberlake - ex-boy band pretty boy turned bad lad. My female friends all loved him, of course, but he had enough self-deprecating humor that 20-something men could also find something to like.
In a sea of mindless dance music of the era, RW sang about getting old, unrequited emotions, and losing your way in the world. He also really put a lot of effort into his music videos, which were entertaining and imaginative. A feature length biopic with a monkey is not totally out of left field for him.
He did have two major flaws. The first is that he insisted on rapping a few verses in a lot of his songs - which would be a stupid idea even if he was a good rapper, which he is not.
Secondly, he very obviously tried for years to break into the North American market, with songs and videos targeting what he thought USian's wanted in a way that really reeked of desperation. As seen on this thread, his efforts were unmarred by any success.
posted by AndrewStephens at 12:07 PM on January 10 [4 favorites]
For context, Robbie Williams was capital-H Huge for a fair chunk of the late 90s-2000s, with several massive albums. The closest USA comparison would probably be Justin Timberlake - ex-boy band pretty boy turned bad lad. My female friends all loved him, of course, but he had enough self-deprecating humor that 20-something men could also find something to like.
In a sea of mindless dance music of the era, RW sang about getting old, unrequited emotions, and losing your way in the world. He also really put a lot of effort into his music videos, which were entertaining and imaginative. A feature length biopic with a monkey is not totally out of left field for him.
He did have two major flaws. The first is that he insisted on rapping a few verses in a lot of his songs - which would be a stupid idea even if he was a good rapper, which he is not.
Secondly, he very obviously tried for years to break into the North American market, with songs and videos targeting what he thought USian's wanted in a way that really reeked of desperation. As seen on this thread, his efforts were unmarred by any success.
posted by AndrewStephens at 12:07 PM on January 10 [4 favorites]
I have nothing to say about the movie and I'm not going to see it but check out this bit of grandiose pomposity. Seriously, he's such a good singer and he makes it look so effortless. It's from his Swing While You're Winning album which is all big band standards and really good.
I don't know, he's portrayed as a monkey? There's dance and musical scenes? Maybe I will watch it...
posted by ashbury at 1:05 PM on January 10 [4 favorites]
I don't know, he's portrayed as a monkey? There's dance and musical scenes? Maybe I will watch it...
posted by ashbury at 1:05 PM on January 10 [4 favorites]
Another European here to confirm that Robbie was, indeed, a big deal. When Robbie left Take That, they had to set up dedicated suicide hotlines for distraught fans.
I couldn't really bring myself to be into any of the boybands, which put me in the embarrassing spot of having no names to draw into hearts on my school desk when that became all the rage in my grade. I certainly missed the peak of the hype. But I did eventually develop a bit of a soft spot for Robbie. He's got a nice voice, and a certain blend of pathos and swagger that can speak to a lost soul with delusions of grandeur. Never really making it overseas inspite of wanting it so, so much just adds to that appeal.
My favourite of his is Supreme - the tune is catchy, the lyrics are relatable and the the music video is a cinematic masterpiece, Robby perfectly capturing the glamour and pathos of a race car driver living it up in the 70s and missing his big shot due to being locked on the toilet.
I'm not going to watch something with that CGI ape though.
posted by sohalt at 1:49 PM on January 10 [2 favorites]
I couldn't really bring myself to be into any of the boybands, which put me in the embarrassing spot of having no names to draw into hearts on my school desk when that became all the rage in my grade. I certainly missed the peak of the hype. But I did eventually develop a bit of a soft spot for Robbie. He's got a nice voice, and a certain blend of pathos and swagger that can speak to a lost soul with delusions of grandeur. Never really making it overseas inspite of wanting it so, so much just adds to that appeal.
My favourite of his is Supreme - the tune is catchy, the lyrics are relatable and the the music video is a cinematic masterpiece, Robby perfectly capturing the glamour and pathos of a race car driver living it up in the 70s and missing his big shot due to being locked on the toilet.
I'm not going to watch something with that CGI ape though.
posted by sohalt at 1:49 PM on January 10 [2 favorites]
I've always been mystified by Robbie Williams, given that he's worked with some of my favorite well-regarded artists and producers. Trevor Horn! Mark Ronson! Pet Shop Boys!
I've never "gotten it" even as someone who loves British pop.
I went to see Better Man. It was grandiose and cinematic, and the whole "chimp thing" kinda works, as if expressing Robbie Williams as an idea as opposed to a man. Still, here in the US... I still don't entirely get it. Sorry, UK.
posted by eschatfische at 9:23 AM on January 13 [2 favorites]
I've never "gotten it" even as someone who loves British pop.
I went to see Better Man. It was grandiose and cinematic, and the whole "chimp thing" kinda works, as if expressing Robbie Williams as an idea as opposed to a man. Still, here in the US... I still don't entirely get it. Sorry, UK.
posted by eschatfische at 9:23 AM on January 13 [2 favorites]
I will never watch more than the trailer but I wonder: did they go with the chimp because the CGI de-aging looked like crap and Williams didn't want to another actor play him?
posted by donio at 11:11 AM on January 13 [1 favorite]
posted by donio at 11:11 AM on January 13 [1 favorite]
I was gonna sneer at that and then thought about it... and it sounds entirely plausible. I mean, at least as maybe a way that they got to the idea. Certainly, they seem to have ended up using it as a device that adds to the film. But maybe this was the seed of the idea?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:34 AM on January 13
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:34 AM on January 13
Or...OR..Robbie Williams has been a chimp all along
posted by Kitteh at 11:42 AM on January 13 [1 favorite]
posted by Kitteh at 11:42 AM on January 13 [1 favorite]
The quote I read is that it started with Robbie saying he's "always felt like a performing monkey." I think it works here as a device to emphasize that whatever his life looked like to people outside him, inside he always felt very different.
I liked this well enough. I've been a bit of a Robbie fan on and off. He definitely tried courting a bit of a gay following years ago by constantly getting naked in photos and giving teasing "is he or isn't he" answers to interview questions. His video for the song "Rock DJ" got a lot of attention back in the day, and is an obvious early version of this "fame is tearing me apart" theme.
The movie isn't quite as powerful as Elton John's Rocketman, though it follows a lot of the same arc. I don't know that it overcomes the "what if you don't know who Robbie Williams is" barrier, though.
posted by dnash at 11:58 AM on January 13 [1 favorite]
I liked this well enough. I've been a bit of a Robbie fan on and off. He definitely tried courting a bit of a gay following years ago by constantly getting naked in photos and giving teasing "is he or isn't he" answers to interview questions. His video for the song "Rock DJ" got a lot of attention back in the day, and is an obvious early version of this "fame is tearing me apart" theme.
The movie isn't quite as powerful as Elton John's Rocketman, though it follows a lot of the same arc. I don't know that it overcomes the "what if you don't know who Robbie Williams is" barrier, though.
posted by dnash at 11:58 AM on January 13 [1 favorite]
The quote I read is that it started with Robbie saying he's "always felt like a performing monkey."
That's his sound-bite explanation for the press tour, but I think it's also used as a motif in terms of a "monkey on your back" too -- while Robbie is always the current monkey, the monkey also "multiplies": at each stage of his life, with a specific costume for that era, a new monkey starts appearing in crowds and audiences, telling him he sucks, that he should die, that he doesn't deserve fame, and with each life or style change a new one appears until he's got an army of monkeys following him and he just can't ignore their negative "self" talk.
posted by AzraelBrown at 7:13 AM on January 14
That's his sound-bite explanation for the press tour, but I think it's also used as a motif in terms of a "monkey on your back" too -- while Robbie is always the current monkey, the monkey also "multiplies": at each stage of his life, with a specific costume for that era, a new monkey starts appearing in crowds and audiences, telling him he sucks, that he should die, that he doesn't deserve fame, and with each life or style change a new one appears until he's got an army of monkeys following him and he just can't ignore their negative "self" talk.
posted by AzraelBrown at 7:13 AM on January 14
I saw a tweet from Variety wondering why this movie bombed, followed by a reply saying something to effect of, "How many more ways we gotta tell you we don't know who the fuck this is?"
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:46 AM on January 14 [2 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:46 AM on January 14 [2 favorites]
it's weird, because as people have said he's like stratospherically famous in england, europe and nz, i think it's the first time I've really got what 'not breaking america' means lol
posted by Sebmojo at 12:09 PM on January 14 [4 favorites]
posted by Sebmojo at 12:09 PM on January 14 [4 favorites]
Coming to this thread prematurely as I haven't yet seen this film, but plan to. Unlike, it seems, most people reading this, I am SQUARELY in the Take That demographic, and growing up had extremely strong feelings about the band, and about Robbie Williams - when he left the band I felt it as a personal betrayal.
I've not continued to be a super-fan of Robbie or the band, but he has released some pretty good tunes in his time. My favourites are probably 'Rock DJ' and 'Candy', although like everyone I have a bit of a soft-spot for 'Angels', a big cheesy stadium belter.
His mixed feelings about being famous came through right from the start. IIRC, his first solo release following his departure from Take That was a cover of George Michael's 'Freedom'. I think he's always had a sort of push-pull with his audience that's evident in many of his songs and music videos. The chimpanzee gambit* doesn't surprise me - it seems a logical follow-through of what has obviously been a long-standing preoccupation.
*Sounds like a novel by Tom Clancy
posted by unicorn chaser at 6:15 AM on January 17 [1 favorite]
I've not continued to be a super-fan of Robbie or the band, but he has released some pretty good tunes in his time. My favourites are probably 'Rock DJ' and 'Candy', although like everyone I have a bit of a soft-spot for 'Angels', a big cheesy stadium belter.
His mixed feelings about being famous came through right from the start. IIRC, his first solo release following his departure from Take That was a cover of George Michael's 'Freedom'. I think he's always had a sort of push-pull with his audience that's evident in many of his songs and music videos. The chimpanzee gambit* doesn't surprise me - it seems a logical follow-through of what has obviously been a long-standing preoccupation.
*Sounds like a novel by Tom Clancy
posted by unicorn chaser at 6:15 AM on January 17 [1 favorite]
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It is pretty much a fluff piece -- he's an amazing performer but he's troubled, he self-sabotages all his relationships, then reaches his limit, but pulls it back from the brink just in time, and everybody loves him again! Of course there's daddy issues! -- and it doesn't waste its energy questioning or making Robbie any more complicated than that.
It's a very CGI heavy film and it does that well. Movie musicals have really dug deep into using CGI to shape space and time in creative ways and Better Man does this a lot with good results.
As far as the ape CGI character: it is super realistic and can really act and emote, it doesn't look rubbery or fake (I bet there's some Planet of the Apes animators behind this). I think they used the CGI here to their benefit too: not trying to have real actors trying to look or act like Robbie Williams means they could probably swap out mocap dancers for actors as needed, and match his movements from real-life performances much more accurately.
(I had been going back and forth on whether to see it, given it's weird niche, and had pretty much decided not to see it -- but then a friend mentioned the same sentiment, so we went together and we both enjoyed it.)
posted by AzraelBrown at 6:43 AM on January 10 [1 favorite]