Arrow: My Name is Oliver Queen
May 14, 2015 6:44 AM - Season 3, Episode 23 - Subscribe
Everyone's lives are in danger as Ra's al Ghul puts forth his final plan. Oliver/Al Sah-him must decide if he's strong enough to take on this new role and what it will mean for everyone on Team Arrow, and his soul.
The cliffhanger from last week is quickly resolved as Merlyn reveals he, at the behest of Oliver, inoculated everyone from Alpha/Omega. The Flash comes and rescues Team Arrow and then runs away to a much more interesting finale.
Meanwhile, Oliver is flying with his new bride and his new father-in-law. But new-dad doesn't like it when Oliver reveals that he sabotaged the plane so Starling City wouldn't be wiped out by the virus. A fight ensues, Ra's jumps off the plane. Oliver and Nyssa crash land in Starling.
They aren't welcomed with open arms by Team Arrow. Diggle is taking it the worst, still pissed that Ollie used Lyla as a pawn when he was kayfabe trying to kill everyone a couple weeks back.
Ra's says he has 4 horsemen of the virus apocalypse after finding out his initial target, Damien Dahrk (next season's big bad?), has left town. Team Arrow goes to deal with that while Oliver meets Ra's at the top of a dam.
Captain Detective Lance of Police Squad is back on the sauce. Laurel calls out his BS and tells him he needs to mobilize the police. One of the 4 horsemen kills himself, releasing the virus into the air. Thea dressed in Roy's old garb saves Diggle. Ray tries to work to synthesize a nanobot delivered cure.
Ra's and Oliver continue their dam fight. The police are waiting to shoot both of the combatants "once they get a clear shot"? If you want to kill them both, there's no "clear shot", dude. Anyhoo, Lance tells Felicity to send help. Ray says he can't because he's dealing with his tiny bot problem.
Oliver kills Ra's. Ra's gives him the thimble of office, making him The Demon's Head. The police shoot Oliver who falls off the dam only to be picked up by the Atom...only, that's not Ray Palmer! That's Felicity!
Turns out, Oliver was wearing league armor and the shooting didn't even phase him. He gives a great pep talk to Team Arrow about how coming together is the lesson he learned this week, except he's learned that before and forgot it so many times. He just forgets and forgets.
Oliver says he's leaving with Felicity to be himself for a change, especially since he can't be the Arrow anymore. He's leaving the city in good hands, he says. Diggle runs away, still hurt. Oliver chases after him and they kiss. Wait...no, Oliver tells him Starling City needs him and Diggle needs to hide his identity.
Thea is now a member of Team Arrow. She says she was thinking of calling herself Red Arrow, but Oliver says that he told everyone to call her Speedy. Damn press releases.
Merlyn had a deal with Oliver. Oliver hands over the thimble, but not before he tells him he'll never forgive him for what he did to Sara and his sister. In Nanda Parbat, the new Ra's commands Nyssa to kneel before him, but not before she says she will challenge his throne to avenge Sara.
Ray Palmer blows himself to smithereens...or at least to the new spin-off "DC's Legends of Tomorrow" coming soon to the CW.
Oliver and Felicity drive somewhere off the coast of somewhere nice. He says he's happy. He won't be come September.
Oh, and five years ago Oliver tortures the Beastmaster and Maseo kills him, to the chagrin of Tatsu. Maseo ditches his wife, saying she reminds him too much of Akio. Oliver says he's not going back to Starling because he's not a good person and he doesn't want his mom and sister to see this monster.
See you next season, Arrow-heads!
The cliffhanger from last week is quickly resolved as Merlyn reveals he, at the behest of Oliver, inoculated everyone from Alpha/Omega. The Flash comes and rescues Team Arrow and then runs away to a much more interesting finale.
Meanwhile, Oliver is flying with his new bride and his new father-in-law. But new-dad doesn't like it when Oliver reveals that he sabotaged the plane so Starling City wouldn't be wiped out by the virus. A fight ensues, Ra's jumps off the plane. Oliver and Nyssa crash land in Starling.
They aren't welcomed with open arms by Team Arrow. Diggle is taking it the worst, still pissed that Ollie used Lyla as a pawn when he was kayfabe trying to kill everyone a couple weeks back.
Ra's says he has 4 horsemen of the virus apocalypse after finding out his initial target, Damien Dahrk (next season's big bad?), has left town. Team Arrow goes to deal with that while Oliver meets Ra's at the top of a dam.
Captain Detective Lance of Police Squad is back on the sauce. Laurel calls out his BS and tells him he needs to mobilize the police. One of the 4 horsemen kills himself, releasing the virus into the air. Thea dressed in Roy's old garb saves Diggle. Ray tries to work to synthesize a nanobot delivered cure.
Ra's and Oliver continue their dam fight. The police are waiting to shoot both of the combatants "once they get a clear shot"? If you want to kill them both, there's no "clear shot", dude. Anyhoo, Lance tells Felicity to send help. Ray says he can't because he's dealing with his tiny bot problem.
Oliver kills Ra's. Ra's gives him the thimble of office, making him The Demon's Head. The police shoot Oliver who falls off the dam only to be picked up by the Atom...only, that's not Ray Palmer! That's Felicity!
Turns out, Oliver was wearing league armor and the shooting didn't even phase him. He gives a great pep talk to Team Arrow about how coming together is the lesson he learned this week, except he's learned that before and forgot it so many times. He just forgets and forgets.
Oliver says he's leaving with Felicity to be himself for a change, especially since he can't be the Arrow anymore. He's leaving the city in good hands, he says. Diggle runs away, still hurt. Oliver chases after him and they kiss. Wait...no, Oliver tells him Starling City needs him and Diggle needs to hide his identity.
Thea is now a member of Team Arrow. She says she was thinking of calling herself Red Arrow, but Oliver says that he told everyone to call her Speedy. Damn press releases.
Merlyn had a deal with Oliver. Oliver hands over the thimble, but not before he tells him he'll never forgive him for what he did to Sara and his sister. In Nanda Parbat, the new Ra's commands Nyssa to kneel before him, but not before she says she will challenge his throne to avenge Sara.
Ray Palmer blows himself to smithereens...or at least to the new spin-off "DC's Legends of Tomorrow" coming soon to the CW.
Oliver and Felicity drive somewhere off the coast of somewhere nice. He says he's happy. He won't be come September.
Oh, and five years ago Oliver tortures the Beastmaster and Maseo kills him, to the chagrin of Tatsu. Maseo ditches his wife, saying she reminds him too much of Akio. Oliver says he's not going back to Starling because he's not a good person and he doesn't want his mom and sister to see this monster.
See you next season, Arrow-heads!
Spoke too soon. Maybe a fresh rocket suit?
Anyway, wasn't there a weird Ray-Felicity scene an episode or two ago where he popped in and said "here, sign this" and she asked what it was, and he was all "oh, just some company paperwork", and then the camera zoomed in on the papers and it said title transfer or transfer of shares or something? I assumed it basically left her with boatloads of money, whatever happened. But it didn't quite make sense to me.
posted by ktkt at 12:26 AM on May 15, 2015
Anyway, wasn't there a weird Ray-Felicity scene an episode or two ago where he popped in and said "here, sign this" and she asked what it was, and he was all "oh, just some company paperwork", and then the camera zoomed in on the papers and it said title transfer or transfer of shares or something? I assumed it basically left her with boatloads of money, whatever happened. But it didn't quite make sense to me.
posted by ktkt at 12:26 AM on May 15, 2015
That scene definitely happened, but I'm not sure I caught what the paperwork said. It was either this episode or the last (I watched them together). I sort of assumed he was giving her the company so he could jet off to being tiny on another show.
All in all, this episode was...fine? I guess? Nothing made much sense, but I'm happy with Merlyn being the new R'as, and hopefully this whole mess of a season is behind us all now.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 6:52 AM on May 15, 2015
All in all, this episode was...fine? I guess? Nothing made much sense, but I'm happy with Merlyn being the new R'as, and hopefully this whole mess of a season is behind us all now.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 6:52 AM on May 15, 2015
This is all pure speculation and conjecture, but I think I understand where the writers are going, but even still my comments are going to address The Flash, and the upcoming Legends of Tomorrow show, so skip them if you don't want Flash spoilers or guesses about Legends.
Since Ray is going to be on the new show, he needed to be out of the Arrow picture. By signing over the company to Felicity, that puts technology, money and business/political power back in the hands of Team Arrow. It also puts planes, helicopters and satellites at their disposal and gives them a headquarters. So all is good for Team Arrow.
As for how they wrote Ray out, I think that has to do with the nature of Legends. Think about what the trailer showed us and how it was presented. We have Rip Hunter making that speech about "you're not heroes, you're legends" and what are legends? Things that may not exist. Tall tales of exaggeration or heavily fictionalized and altered versions of people and events that may have happened. Now look at the team.
Sarah is dead--or was dead. Ray appeared to have been blown to smithereens. Captain Cold had his records and identity wiped out by the Flash. So we've got three people who no longer exist. Now my memory is a little shaky on this, but when Martin and Ronnie ran off to the professor's old friend for help, didn't they do so under the radar so as to not attract attention from the army? So we have two more people whose identities are less than solid, especially consider Ronnie was presumed to have died in the accelerator explosion and Martin was missing for months after the accident. And since we seem to have only one half of the Firestorm duo as a permanent cast member at this point, we also have a hero who can't really exist.
My guess is that Team Legend will be a team of ghosts--people who don't really exist to the "real world," which given the time-travel nature of the premise makes sense. Hunter could have gone back in time and saved Ray seconds before the explosion, and stolen Sarah's body shortly after burial quickly enough that the Lazarus pit would still be effective. This way he can compile a team that nobody would suspect of even existing and nobody will miss if they wind up dead (except Oliver and Barry, and likely every other masked person on both shows--no guesses on whether they let Capt. Lance in on the news of Sarah's rebirth).
posted by sardonyx at 8:33 AM on May 15, 2015 [7 favorites]
Since Ray is going to be on the new show, he needed to be out of the Arrow picture. By signing over the company to Felicity, that puts technology, money and business/political power back in the hands of Team Arrow. It also puts planes, helicopters and satellites at their disposal and gives them a headquarters. So all is good for Team Arrow.
As for how they wrote Ray out, I think that has to do with the nature of Legends. Think about what the trailer showed us and how it was presented. We have Rip Hunter making that speech about "you're not heroes, you're legends" and what are legends? Things that may not exist. Tall tales of exaggeration or heavily fictionalized and altered versions of people and events that may have happened. Now look at the team.
Sarah is dead--or was dead. Ray appeared to have been blown to smithereens. Captain Cold had his records and identity wiped out by the Flash. So we've got three people who no longer exist. Now my memory is a little shaky on this, but when Martin and Ronnie ran off to the professor's old friend for help, didn't they do so under the radar so as to not attract attention from the army? So we have two more people whose identities are less than solid, especially consider Ronnie was presumed to have died in the accelerator explosion and Martin was missing for months after the accident. And since we seem to have only one half of the Firestorm duo as a permanent cast member at this point, we also have a hero who can't really exist.
My guess is that Team Legend will be a team of ghosts--people who don't really exist to the "real world," which given the time-travel nature of the premise makes sense. Hunter could have gone back in time and saved Ray seconds before the explosion, and stolen Sarah's body shortly after burial quickly enough that the Lazarus pit would still be effective. This way he can compile a team that nobody would suspect of even existing and nobody will miss if they wind up dead (except Oliver and Barry, and likely every other masked person on both shows--no guesses on whether they let Capt. Lance in on the news of Sarah's rebirth).
posted by sardonyx at 8:33 AM on May 15, 2015 [7 favorites]
I like that. I was wondering how Sarah could be resurrected since her corpse had to be past its expiration date even for the Lazarus hot tub, and it makes sense that a time traveler, who has moved to a time and location he doesn't exist in yet, might choose to recruit a team both capable of doing what is needed and doesn't fully exist either.
posted by insert.witticism.here at 12:24 PM on May 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by insert.witticism.here at 12:24 PM on May 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oliver and Felicity drive somewhere off the coast of somewhere nice.
Felicity Smoak Death Watch begins in 3...2...1...
posted by happyroach at 3:05 PM on May 15, 2015
Felicity Smoak Death Watch begins in 3...2...1...
posted by happyroach at 3:05 PM on May 15, 2015
Not done watching so no reading the above comments yet, yeah The Flash is the Flash, but no really, where the fuck is Nanda Parbat???It's like two towns over isn't it?
posted by Kitteh at 4:30 PM on May 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 4:30 PM on May 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
Given that 75% of Oliver's plans to resolve any situation result in him planning his own demise, I'm amazed that the supporting cast even lets him go out for milk at this point.
posted by Shepherd at 7:41 PM on May 15, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by Shepherd at 7:41 PM on May 15, 2015 [11 favorites]
Nanda Parbat, Oregon. Population: 20,000 Ninjas.
posted by kythuen at 10:02 PM on May 15, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by kythuen at 10:02 PM on May 15, 2015 [7 favorites]
2. How does Oliver have enough money to run off to paradise and pick up a Porsche along the way? Okay I assume Felicity was getting a decent paycheque from Ray, but then shouldn't she be behind the wheel if the car was rented in her name?
Vice President of a Fortune 500 company, right? She was probably pulling down a multi-million dollar salary. I mean, this Apple VP got $37 milion in stocks just as a hiring bonus. And, of course, Felicity now owns Palmer Technologies. Although she wouldn't have known that when they left, since he didn't tell her and despite being the Vice President of a Fortune 500 company she doesn't read things handed to her by the CEO and owner before she signs them.
Also, Thea inherited Merlin's billion dollar + fortune. Perhaps she threw him a couple million bucks before he left.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:02 AM on May 16, 2015
Vice President of a Fortune 500 company, right? She was probably pulling down a multi-million dollar salary. I mean, this Apple VP got $37 milion in stocks just as a hiring bonus. And, of course, Felicity now owns Palmer Technologies. Although she wouldn't have known that when they left, since he didn't tell her and despite being the Vice President of a Fortune 500 company she doesn't read things handed to her by the CEO and owner before she signs them.
Also, Thea inherited Merlin's billion dollar + fortune. Perhaps she threw him a couple million bucks before he left.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:02 AM on May 16, 2015
The Flash: "The lives of every single person in a major American city could end within hours because of a deadly bioweapon? Wow, bummer. Gotta skate though. I need to have a conversation with Harrison Wells. Good luck with that, though. For real."
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:46 AM on May 16, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:46 AM on May 16, 2015 [4 favorites]
The word is that season 4 will be lighter in tone. I'm thinking Oliver re-emerges as Green Arrow. That plus Thea as Speedy... Sounds like a good start.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:47 AM on May 16, 2015
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:47 AM on May 16, 2015
Ray appeared to have been blown to smithereens.
What we said in our house was "Ray just had an Origin". (But we've read the comics. We didn't see the Legends trailer until later.)
posted by immlass at 9:51 AM on May 16, 2015
What we said in our house was "Ray just had an Origin". (But we've read the comics. We didn't see the Legends trailer until later.)
posted by immlass at 9:51 AM on May 16, 2015
My hope for the last third of the season hinged on the prophecy that anyone "killed" by the sword of Ras but not dying would be the escape clause for Oliver's ascension story, and Thea -- who also had been run through by Ras, but ultimately not killed, would ascend to the head of the League.
It would have been great -- Thea asserting herself, making all the Malcolm Merlyn heritage and training work for her, and making her and Oliver sometime-enemies and sometime-uneasy-allies when the situation warranted. Siblings on opposite sides of the justice/vengeance spectrum.
Instead, she's Speedy, which is... ehh, pretty good, I guess. No complaints, but having Thea lead the league (possibly with Merlyn as her second, possibly with him outcast and scheming on the sidelines) would have been awesome.
posted by Shepherd at 9:55 AM on May 16, 2015 [5 favorites]
It would have been great -- Thea asserting herself, making all the Malcolm Merlyn heritage and training work for her, and making her and Oliver sometime-enemies and sometime-uneasy-allies when the situation warranted. Siblings on opposite sides of the justice/vengeance spectrum.
Instead, she's Speedy, which is... ehh, pretty good, I guess. No complaints, but having Thea lead the league (possibly with Merlyn as her second, possibly with him outcast and scheming on the sidelines) would have been awesome.
posted by Shepherd at 9:55 AM on May 16, 2015 [5 favorites]
where the fuck is Nanda Parbat???It's like two towns over isn't it?
Isn't it a suburb a little ways north? Nanda Parbat Estates? It's the ultimate planned community, but the HOA can be a little strict.
posted by Servo5678 at 1:23 PM on May 16, 2015 [4 favorites]
Isn't it a suburb a little ways north? Nanda Parbat Estates? It's the ultimate planned community, but the HOA can be a little strict.
posted by Servo5678 at 1:23 PM on May 16, 2015 [4 favorites]
Nanda Parbat is in the woods outside Vancouver, British Columbia.
Years of watching genre television has taught me that basically everything is in the woods outside Vancouver, British Columbia.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:30 PM on May 16, 2015 [5 favorites]
Years of watching genre television has taught me that basically everything is in the woods outside Vancouver, British Columbia.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:30 PM on May 16, 2015 [5 favorites]
I figure as soon as Oliver made his return from his disappearance and got access to the Queen fortune he would have started hiding money in secret accounts all over the place.
posted by sevenyearlurk at 6:19 AM on May 17, 2015
posted by sevenyearlurk at 6:19 AM on May 17, 2015
"Quick, how can we make Merlin the successor of Ras if he stabbed Ollie?" "Um. Torture involves cutting people, right?" "BINGO."
I appreciated Lance's comment, "City under attack? Must be May!" That's a nice wink at the Buffy, "Dawn in danger? Must be Tuesday!"
It wasn't a terrible conclusion, but it's an unsteady one. Ollie will return as the arrow, so what's the point of his departure, if we already know that Felicity will be let down or at the least, within short time next season, Ollie's back in the green hood?
The Ray explosion was a surprise, I'll give them that.
While I expected Thea to wear the red hood, it was a pleasant surprise when she appeared doing so.
I do appreciate Diggle not letting Ollie off the hook for putting both his wife and daughter in danger. You're right Diggle, it was a jerk move.
posted by Atreides at 2:14 PM on May 17, 2015
I appreciated Lance's comment, "City under attack? Must be May!" That's a nice wink at the Buffy, "Dawn in danger? Must be Tuesday!"
It wasn't a terrible conclusion, but it's an unsteady one. Ollie will return as the arrow, so what's the point of his departure, if we already know that Felicity will be let down or at the least, within short time next season, Ollie's back in the green hood?
The Ray explosion was a surprise, I'll give them that.
While I expected Thea to wear the red hood, it was a pleasant surprise when she appeared doing so.
I do appreciate Diggle not letting Ollie off the hook for putting both his wife and daughter in danger. You're right Diggle, it was a jerk move.
posted by Atreides at 2:14 PM on May 17, 2015
The producers say the plan for Season Four is to go lighter. Given that, I'd say there is a 99.99999% chance that him giving up the Arrow mantle is a setup for him finally becoming Green Arrow.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:53 PM on May 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:53 PM on May 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
So, as a non-comicbook-reader.. what's the manifest difference between the Arrow (a dude in a green outfit shooting green arrows) and the Green Arrow?
posted by coriolisdave at 5:40 PM on May 17, 2015
posted by coriolisdave at 5:40 PM on May 17, 2015
I understood where Diggle was coming from, but I'm exhausted with the Arrow trope in which Oliver's reward for saving his friend's lives/the city/the world is being lectured on hurting someone's feelings.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:42 PM on May 17, 2015
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:42 PM on May 17, 2015
So, as a non-comicbook-reader.. what's the manifest difference between the Arrow (a dude in a green outfit shooting green arrows) and the Green Arrow?
The Arrow is sort of a vaguely grimdark Batman-style reworking of Green Arrow who is a bit more swashbuckling and light-hearted. Errol Flynn figures more prominently into the DNA of Green Arrow than Frank Miller. This isn't to say the print version has never gone the darker route, but as a fast and loose comparison, the above works reasonably well.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:46 PM on May 17, 2015
The Arrow is sort of a vaguely grimdark Batman-style reworking of Green Arrow who is a bit more swashbuckling and light-hearted. Errol Flynn figures more prominently into the DNA of Green Arrow than Frank Miller. This isn't to say the print version has never gone the darker route, but as a fast and loose comparison, the above works reasonably well.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:46 PM on May 17, 2015
The classic Green Arrow is more likely to disable a villain with a gimmick arrow then make a funny quip and leave him tied up for the authorities than he is to assassinate someone for failing his city.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:53 PM on May 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:53 PM on May 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
I bet it'll feel more like Flash (cue Felicity saying "I thought this was the fun one").
posted by immlass at 5:58 PM on May 17, 2015
posted by immlass at 5:58 PM on May 17, 2015
I understood where Diggle was coming from, but I'm exhausted with the Arrow trope in which Oliver's reward for saving his friend's lives/the city/the world is being lectured on hurting someone's feelings.
Don't get me started on the trust/hurt feelings issues in Supernatural, but I think this was earned more than almost any other similar event in the show. Diggle was Oliver's confidant and closest friend once he returned home and became the Arrow. They had been involved in numerous life and death situations and Oliver, who had plenty of time to fill in Merlin, the villain of season 1, the guy who hypnotized his daughter and Ollie's sister to kill the Black Canary, etc...etc.. about the plan to take down the League from inside, but Oliver stays completely mum with Diggle. On top of that, he endangered Diggle's little girl. You can't get much more innocent at risk in this show than that.
posted by Atreides at 6:14 AM on May 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
Don't get me started on the trust/hurt feelings issues in Supernatural, but I think this was earned more than almost any other similar event in the show. Diggle was Oliver's confidant and closest friend once he returned home and became the Arrow. They had been involved in numerous life and death situations and Oliver, who had plenty of time to fill in Merlin, the villain of season 1, the guy who hypnotized his daughter and Ollie's sister to kill the Black Canary, etc...etc.. about the plan to take down the League from inside, but Oliver stays completely mum with Diggle. On top of that, he endangered Diggle's little girl. You can't get much more innocent at risk in this show than that.
posted by Atreides at 6:14 AM on May 18, 2015 [2 favorites]
The newspaper from the future in The Flash refers to Green Arrow.
So I guess that sorta indicates the "no more Arrow because he's becoming Green Arrow" theory may be right on.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:45 AM on May 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
So I guess that sorta indicates the "no more Arrow because he's becoming Green Arrow" theory may be right on.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:45 AM on May 18, 2015 [1 favorite]
So, as a non-comicbook-reader.. what's the manifest difference between the Arrow (a dude in a green outfit shooting green arrows) and the Green Arrow?
In addition to the above, and depending on who is writing the character, Green Arrow is classically a rrrrrrrraging socialist and anti-establishment figure. One of the reasons the frankly conceptually ludicrous Green Arrow/Green Lantern '70s comics became classics was the odd couple pairing of Ollie, who tiptoes right up to full-blown Marxist, and Hal, the consummate stick-up-the-arse Space Cop.
Classic Ollie would go on page-long harangues in the Justice League satellite about how they were all ultimately tools of authority. He would have Arrowed the crap out of Nixon if he'd been given half a chance. This all kind of got walked-back-on after the Mike Grell revisioning in the... late '80s?... but original Ollie was like somebody sneaking an assload of Doonesbury into your mildly fascist super-hero team-up book.
posted by Shepherd at 9:38 AM on May 19, 2015 [5 favorites]
In addition to the above, and depending on who is writing the character, Green Arrow is classically a rrrrrrrraging socialist and anti-establishment figure. One of the reasons the frankly conceptually ludicrous Green Arrow/Green Lantern '70s comics became classics was the odd couple pairing of Ollie, who tiptoes right up to full-blown Marxist, and Hal, the consummate stick-up-the-arse Space Cop.
Classic Ollie would go on page-long harangues in the Justice League satellite about how they were all ultimately tools of authority. He would have Arrowed the crap out of Nixon if he'd been given half a chance. This all kind of got walked-back-on after the Mike Grell revisioning in the... late '80s?... but original Ollie was like somebody sneaking an assload of Doonesbury into your mildly fascist super-hero team-up book.
posted by Shepherd at 9:38 AM on May 19, 2015 [5 favorites]
Personality is a big difference between the two. Comic book Green Arrow was always "Ollie" to me. TV guy doesn't feel like an "Ollie" at all. He is definitely an "Oliver" especially if you can say it with tinge of despair and contempt in your voice, as in "what stupid thing is Oliver doing now?"
posted by sardonyx at 10:22 AM on May 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by sardonyx at 10:22 AM on May 19, 2015 [2 favorites]
I don't know if I'm going to return for next season. I'm just not feeling it.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:05 PM on May 19, 2015
posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:05 PM on May 19, 2015
When did the audience get any definitive proof Papa Lance had resumed his relationship with the bottle? I know he was in a bad place but Laurel's confrontation about his drinking habits really seemed to have come out of the blue.
Papa Lance once saw Laurel have a few too many glasses of wine at dinner one night (and irresponsibly drove) and immediately jumped to, "OH MY GOD YOU HAVE PROBLEM THIS IS AN INTERVENTION!!!" I suspect that Laurel is trolling him in retribution.
posted by brundlefly at 12:14 AM on May 20, 2015
Papa Lance once saw Laurel have a few too many glasses of wine at dinner one night (and irresponsibly drove) and immediately jumped to, "OH MY GOD YOU HAVE PROBLEM THIS IS AN INTERVENTION!!!" I suspect that Laurel is trolling him in retribution.
posted by brundlefly at 12:14 AM on May 20, 2015
"We've got two suspects up on the dam."
Okay.
"Don't know why they're fighting each other..."
Okay.
"...but the chief says they're responsible for what's happening."
Oka-- Wait, what? How does he know that?
"He's ordered me to take them out as soon as I have a clean shot."
What?! What the living hell? There are two guys, by themselves, fighting each other with short range bladed weapons. You don't know who they are or why they're fighting and they are nowhere near any civilians. Your go-to response is to shoot them to death from a distance without any more investigation? How could you possibly---
Oh, look! See? One of them is dead. That's half the problem solved. Now if we can just open up a line of dialogue with-- JESUS CHRIST! You shot him! He was just standing there looking content! What is wrong with you people?!
posted by brundlefly at 12:22 AM on May 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
Okay.
"Don't know why they're fighting each other..."
Okay.
"...but the chief says they're responsible for what's happening."
Oka-- Wait, what? How does he know that?
"He's ordered me to take them out as soon as I have a clean shot."
What?! What the living hell? There are two guys, by themselves, fighting each other with short range bladed weapons. You don't know who they are or why they're fighting and they are nowhere near any civilians. Your go-to response is to shoot them to death from a distance without any more investigation? How could you possibly---
Oh, look! See? One of them is dead. That's half the problem solved. Now if we can just open up a line of dialogue with-- JESUS CHRIST! You shot him! He was just standing there looking content! What is wrong with you people?!
posted by brundlefly at 12:22 AM on May 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
Your go-to response is to shoot them to death from a distance without any more investigation? How could you possibly---
You're right. Totally unrealistic.
Everyone knows that when US cops execute people in the street for no reason, they do it point blank. And Oliver was wearing black... so, close enough, I guess.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 1:58 AM on May 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
You're right. Totally unrealistic.
Everyone knows that when US cops execute people in the street for no reason, they do it point blank. And Oliver was wearing black... so, close enough, I guess.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 1:58 AM on May 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
He had a hoodie on, FYI.
posted by Atreides at 7:16 AM on May 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Atreides at 7:16 AM on May 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
Are those jewels on that sword hilt, or skittles?
Can't tell, shoot him anyway!
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:55 PM on May 20, 2015
Can't tell, shoot him anyway!
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:55 PM on May 20, 2015
I watched this finale actually convinced that the "spin-off show" was a sham rumor to cover up the fact that Oliver was straight-up leaving the show and it would be changing it's name in the next season to reflect that. Oliver and Felicity literally driving off into the sunset fit perfectly with that.
Having now watched the Leauge of Legends trailer, I am not very excited for anything in it except Sarah.
---
Ra's had a bad case of villain explaining this episode.
Nyssa and Laurel hanging out is everything I need from this show. Nyssa's so proud and it's beautiful. Can I get a spin-off show that's just Nyssa, Laurel, and resurrected Sarah? That would be perfect.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 1:06 AM on May 23, 2015
Having now watched the Leauge of Legends trailer, I am not very excited for anything in it except Sarah.
---
Ra's had a bad case of villain explaining this episode.
Nyssa and Laurel hanging out is everything I need from this show. Nyssa's so proud and it's beautiful. Can I get a spin-off show that's just Nyssa, Laurel, and resurrected Sarah? That would be perfect.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 1:06 AM on May 23, 2015
I finally got around to watching the finale. A happy ending? Wow. Never thought they'd do that. I am pleased.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:30 PM on June 26, 2015
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:30 PM on June 26, 2015
so I finally caught up on this season!
sigh, it's a very conflicting season! I do think that the idea of Oliver-as-general/Arrow Incorporated is a good, natural direction for the show to grow in, and there are moments where it works really well (the episode where Oliver is recovering from gettin' stabbed like a chump and everyone else has to rally the Glades!), but there's, hmm, an ongoing failure to commit/show the work? Especially in this last half-dozen or so episodes, where . The thing is that there is never any doubt that Oliver is going to find some way to get out of killing his friends/committing atrocities in Starling City. This is a pretty ballsy show (within the constraints of its genre and format), but it's not that ballsy. The only place you can generate suspense is in how he's going to do it, which would've worked fine, except that most of the "how" just wound up getting expositioned after the fact by Malcolm. I get that we're supposed to be experiencing the doubt and grief of the other characters, but it winds up creating this awkward situation in which it's TOTALLY OBVIOUS to the viewer that Oliver is going to find some way to flip this, and yet it's completely opaque to his closest friends.
Misc
--that part where Oliver just casually tosses the sword to Nyssa on the plane and lets her go to town though, that was THE SHIT. oh show, you have so many problems, but as long as you keep doing stuff like that i am going to keep watching.
--we're finally getting Thea-as-Speedy which is everything I've wanted from this show since last year so yaaaaaaaaay
--like most superhero crossovers, the logistics/timeline of the Flash/Arrow crossovers in their final few episodes make very little sense
posted by kagredon at 12:22 AM on August 17, 2015
sigh, it's a very conflicting season! I do think that the idea of Oliver-as-general/Arrow Incorporated is a good, natural direction for the show to grow in, and there are moments where it works really well (the episode where Oliver is recovering from gettin' stabbed like a chump and everyone else has to rally the Glades!), but there's, hmm, an ongoing failure to commit/show the work? Especially in this last half-dozen or so episodes, where . The thing is that there is never any doubt that Oliver is going to find some way to get out of killing his friends/committing atrocities in Starling City. This is a pretty ballsy show (within the constraints of its genre and format), but it's not that ballsy. The only place you can generate suspense is in how he's going to do it, which would've worked fine, except that most of the "how" just wound up getting expositioned after the fact by Malcolm. I get that we're supposed to be experiencing the doubt and grief of the other characters, but it winds up creating this awkward situation in which it's TOTALLY OBVIOUS to the viewer that Oliver is going to find some way to flip this, and yet it's completely opaque to his closest friends.
Misc
--that part where Oliver just casually tosses the sword to Nyssa on the plane and lets her go to town though, that was THE SHIT. oh show, you have so many problems, but as long as you keep doing stuff like that i am going to keep watching.
--we're finally getting Thea-as-Speedy which is everything I've wanted from this show since last year so yaaaaaaaaay
--like most superhero crossovers, the logistics/timeline of the Flash/Arrow crossovers in their final few episodes make very little sense
posted by kagredon at 12:22 AM on August 17, 2015
I agrees, there's a limit to what Oliver could do to prove his loyalty versus harming his city and family. I give the show credit that it doesn't let him walk away free with the ramifications of how it harmed his friendship with Diggle.
posted by Atreides at 7:24 AM on August 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Atreides at 7:24 AM on August 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
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1. So that's how Maseo's soul was taken. Really? I'm all for fan-service, but that's the lamest, weak sauce version of fan-service I've ever encountered. It was not needed and not wanted.
2. How does Oliver have enough money to run off to paradise and pick up a Porsche along the way? Okay I assume Felicity was getting a decent paycheque from Ray, but then shouldn't she be behind the wheel if the car was rented in her name?
3. When did the audience get any definitive proof Papa Lance had resumed his relationship with the bottle? I know he was in a bad place but Laurel's confrontation about his drinking habits really seemed to have come out of the blue.
4. I just don't get Nyssa bowing down to Merlin. Sure she has grown up in the League and respects its traditions, but she still has revenge on her agenda and a sword at her side. I guess this is either set-up for season for or the new Legends spin-off (promo trailer with spoilers about cast members).
5. Lots and lots of hand-wavy explanations that made no sense: off-screen inoculations in the dungeon (nobody started looking for their artificial skin patches?), why nanites were needed to deliver the antidote to the population (you could just drop it via drones?), League amour suddenly being bullet-proof, etc.
I guess I'm just happy that the slate has been wiped and we can hit the reset button for the next season, start from scratch, and maybe get back to having this be a good show.
posted by sardonyx at 3:30 PM on May 14, 2015 [1 favorite]