StartUp Podcast: Survival's a Pitch (Season 2, #7)
June 12, 2015 11:51 AM - Subscribe
A golden opportunity sows seeds of doubt
I poked around the Dating Ring website today and discovered a problem that could cause serious confusion.
On their homepage, they say 'Join for Free'. Fine, everyone says that. So now I'm looking for what the pricing will be. Literally the next button on the screen is labelled 'Learn More' in the 'Premium Services' section. On that page, under 'Membership plans', they say the cost is $800/month. HOLY SHIT!
Luckily, I already know that that's not the real cost, because I listen to StartUp. So now I'm wondering, where the hell is the real price? Turns out you need to go to About (nestled in the header and footer), then Pricing, where you see the comparatively more reasonable $40/month.
Honestly, this seems like a crazy way to design a website. I know you don't want to put the price right on the front page, but I wonder how many people end up thinking that it costs $800/month to use. And frankly, overall, I don't think the website design is great; it looks like a lightly modified Bootstrap template with stock photography. There is too much text on the homepage and the layout pulls your eyes in different directions.
posted by adrianhon at 4:49 PM on June 12, 2015
On their homepage, they say 'Join for Free'. Fine, everyone says that. So now I'm looking for what the pricing will be. Literally the next button on the screen is labelled 'Learn More' in the 'Premium Services' section. On that page, under 'Membership plans', they say the cost is $800/month. HOLY SHIT!
Luckily, I already know that that's not the real cost, because I listen to StartUp. So now I'm wondering, where the hell is the real price? Turns out you need to go to About (nestled in the header and footer), then Pricing, where you see the comparatively more reasonable $40/month.
Honestly, this seems like a crazy way to design a website. I know you don't want to put the price right on the front page, but I wonder how many people end up thinking that it costs $800/month to use. And frankly, overall, I don't think the website design is great; it looks like a lightly modified Bootstrap template with stock photography. There is too much text on the homepage and the layout pulls your eyes in different directions.
posted by adrianhon at 4:49 PM on June 12, 2015
The first season was naturally very self-conscious and of course the show's popularity helped Gimlet. But I feel like in this instance it's...breaking the fourth wall somehow?
And again, the scaling thing.
adrianhon - yeah their pricing is not very transparent, that's really weird. I couldn't find the pricing page, just the FAQ. I think having the different plans is a good idea though. Also the website is ... lacking in design.
posted by radioamy at 9:25 PM on June 12, 2015
And again, the scaling thing.
adrianhon - yeah their pricing is not very transparent, that's really weird. I couldn't find the pricing page, just the FAQ. I think having the different plans is a good idea though. Also the website is ... lacking in design.
posted by radioamy at 9:25 PM on June 12, 2015
Yeah... I was disappointed by the ending of this episode; perhaps I'm being a little childish in expecting some kind of wonderful narrative arc for a show about the messiness of startup reality, but surely that's a storyteller's job? How many eps are left in the season? Can't help but think that the real meat of Dating Ring's travails could have been done excellently in a This American Life one or two-parter.
posted by adrianhon at 3:20 AM on June 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by adrianhon at 3:20 AM on June 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I've been in a committed relationship for almost a decade (and we met in college), so not only am I far removed from the dating scene, I have never done online dating. However, listening to this podcast does not particularly make me think that I would want to try Dating Ring if I were single. I'm curious about the rest of you - did listening to the show make you interested in their service?
posted by radioamy at 1:28 PM on June 13, 2015
posted by radioamy at 1:28 PM on June 13, 2015
did listening to the show make you interested in their service?
Well as someone who is single and does, periodically, use online dating sites: No.
I'm pretty sympathetic to their goals and what they identify as the sucky parts of online dating are really the sucky parts of online dating. That said, they haven't sold me on their particular solution to the problem, I mean most of the people that have been interviewed who use the service have not clicked with the people they were set up with. I would not spend $20 for the privilege of going on a terrible date that I could arrange and go on for free.
I totally get that it would be nice to just stuff a wad of cash in someone's hands and say "begone! and return when you have found me a man!" but Dating Ring would have to be able to demonstrate that they are doing significantly better than the free algorithmic sorting provided by the likes of okcupid to really draw me in. Nobody wants to pay for a service that doesn't work, or doesn't work better than something they can get for free, and the behind the curtain view from Startup seems to be that no, they are not spectacular at arranging dates.
One thing you pay for that is kind of nice is that they do the annoying leg work of actually setting up the date, finding a time that works and a place, etc. Which is vaguely appealing but I would have to have a really demanding schedule to be willing to pay for that versus just hash it out in text messages myself.
Again, the key part of their business is that human match makers do a much better job than machine learning or listlessly scrolling through pages and pages of terrible selfies. Startup has not made that case very compellingly, if at all.
posted by selenized at 3:57 PM on June 13, 2015
Well as someone who is single and does, periodically, use online dating sites: No.
I'm pretty sympathetic to their goals and what they identify as the sucky parts of online dating are really the sucky parts of online dating. That said, they haven't sold me on their particular solution to the problem, I mean most of the people that have been interviewed who use the service have not clicked with the people they were set up with. I would not spend $20 for the privilege of going on a terrible date that I could arrange and go on for free.
I totally get that it would be nice to just stuff a wad of cash in someone's hands and say "begone! and return when you have found me a man!" but Dating Ring would have to be able to demonstrate that they are doing significantly better than the free algorithmic sorting provided by the likes of okcupid to really draw me in. Nobody wants to pay for a service that doesn't work, or doesn't work better than something they can get for free, and the behind the curtain view from Startup seems to be that no, they are not spectacular at arranging dates.
One thing you pay for that is kind of nice is that they do the annoying leg work of actually setting up the date, finding a time that works and a place, etc. Which is vaguely appealing but I would have to have a really demanding schedule to be willing to pay for that versus just hash it out in text messages myself.
Again, the key part of their business is that human match makers do a much better job than machine learning or listlessly scrolling through pages and pages of terrible selfies. Startup has not made that case very compellingly, if at all.
posted by selenized at 3:57 PM on June 13, 2015
Yeah... I was disappointed by the ending of this episode; perhaps I'm being a little childish in expecting some kind of wonderful narrative arc for a show about the messiness of startup reality, but surely that's a storyteller's job? How many eps are left in the season? Can't help but think that the real meat of Dating Ring's travails could have been done excellently in a This American Life one or two-parter.
I mean, how much polishing are they expected to do? As far as I can tell, this is a non-interesting company failing in a non-interesting way. I think they just screwed up in selecting a subject. Better luck next time?
I think the podcast could salvage things this season by talking more about the weirdness of startup culture, since there seems to be the kernal of a valid business here but it can't contort itself into what the startup model wants it to me. Or by talking more about the actual humans going on dates and how they can improve that part of the business, since those episodes with the daters were by far the most interesting this season.
The whole thing about "our gimmick is being on this podcast" pushed me firmly into hatelistening. I mean, your gimmick is the matchmakers! That's your whole thing! Are you insane?
posted by selfnoise at 8:07 AM on June 15, 2015
I mean, how much polishing are they expected to do? As far as I can tell, this is a non-interesting company failing in a non-interesting way. I think they just screwed up in selecting a subject. Better luck next time?
I think the podcast could salvage things this season by talking more about the weirdness of startup culture, since there seems to be the kernal of a valid business here but it can't contort itself into what the startup model wants it to me. Or by talking more about the actual humans going on dates and how they can improve that part of the business, since those episodes with the daters were by far the most interesting this season.
The whole thing about "our gimmick is being on this podcast" pushed me firmly into hatelistening. I mean, your gimmick is the matchmakers! That's your whole thing! Are you insane?
posted by selfnoise at 8:07 AM on June 15, 2015
I think the podcast could salvage things this season by talking more about the weirdness of startup culture, [...]
That is a good idea.
I was reflecting on this and the parts of this season I liked the most were, generally, the parts where they weren't talking about Dating Ring specifically. For example when they interviewed rando folks about the trough of sorrow, or when they talked to that guy from okcupid about launching a new product that people didn't want. It was very compelling when they spent time reflecting on how demanding and bizarre startup culture can be, but much less so when focused on a particular startup's business plan and foibles.
Maybe Startup would be better if instead of trying for a season long arc embedded in a particular startup they had episodes focused on the trials of startups in general? It would probably be easier to line up interviewees if they could talk about startup life abstractly and not getting into the details of their particular business (which I assume is why it was a challenge to get a startup to agree to be in season 2?).
We also live in a time when startups periodically disrupt in ways that are quasi-legal at best or outright illegal (e.g. Uber who everyone loves to hate). Or there is that weird utopian startup land the Zappos guy created in Las Vegas... It just seems like there are lots of potentially compelling narratives around startups that could be in Startup, and instead we get to listen to the slow unraveling of a dating site.
I get that their whole schtick was following a single startup -- themselves -- but you don't have to be married to that.
I have typed "startup" so many times in this comment the word doesn't even look like a word anymore and has lost all meaning for me.
posted by selenized at 1:20 PM on June 15, 2015
That is a good idea.
I was reflecting on this and the parts of this season I liked the most were, generally, the parts where they weren't talking about Dating Ring specifically. For example when they interviewed rando folks about the trough of sorrow, or when they talked to that guy from okcupid about launching a new product that people didn't want. It was very compelling when they spent time reflecting on how demanding and bizarre startup culture can be, but much less so when focused on a particular startup's business plan and foibles.
Maybe Startup would be better if instead of trying for a season long arc embedded in a particular startup they had episodes focused on the trials of startups in general? It would probably be easier to line up interviewees if they could talk about startup life abstractly and not getting into the details of their particular business (which I assume is why it was a challenge to get a startup to agree to be in season 2?).
We also live in a time when startups periodically disrupt in ways that are quasi-legal at best or outright illegal (e.g. Uber who everyone loves to hate). Or there is that weird utopian startup land the Zappos guy created in Las Vegas... It just seems like there are lots of potentially compelling narratives around startups that could be in Startup, and instead we get to listen to the slow unraveling of a dating site.
I get that their whole schtick was following a single startup -- themselves -- but you don't have to be married to that.
I have typed "startup" so many times in this comment the word doesn't even look like a word anymore and has lost all meaning for me.
posted by selenized at 1:20 PM on June 15, 2015
As far as I can tell, this is a non-interesting company failing in a non-interesting way.
I think what's interesting about it as an outsider to startup culture is that I don't know what a failing startup looks like and (as opposed to Season 1, where it focused on how hard it is to get to a point where it's clear you've achieved some measure of success) this documents how confusing that can be. The initial idea was audacious, the repeated pivots in focus could work or not, the process of securing funding is tumultuous, and the experience of women in this often disappointingly retrograde milieu is eye-opening. DatingRing (a company whose product I frankly would never want to use, pitched as it is to poeple who are willing to throw money at being matched) is really just the vehicle for all that.
posted by psoas at 8:50 AM on June 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think what's interesting about it as an outsider to startup culture is that I don't know what a failing startup looks like and (as opposed to Season 1, where it focused on how hard it is to get to a point where it's clear you've achieved some measure of success) this documents how confusing that can be. The initial idea was audacious, the repeated pivots in focus could work or not, the process of securing funding is tumultuous, and the experience of women in this often disappointingly retrograde milieu is eye-opening. DatingRing (a company whose product I frankly would never want to use, pitched as it is to poeple who are willing to throw money at being matched) is really just the vehicle for all that.
posted by psoas at 8:50 AM on June 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
You pay $20 for a match, and they may not even return your initial text if they don't like your looks or your ethnicity. That's just throwing money away, if you don't get many actual dates out of the service.
posted by smackfu at 1:29 PM on June 17, 2015
posted by smackfu at 1:29 PM on June 17, 2015
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
I was happy the focus moved back away from "online dating in 2015" to the nuts and bolts of running a business. But it doesn't seem like they have a lot of content left as far as Dating Ring's actual story.
posted by tjgrathwell at 12:53 PM on June 12, 2015