True Detective: Other Lives
July 20, 2015 10:11 AM - Season 2, Episode 5 - Subscribe
Ray and Frank contemplate new life choices; Ani and Paul follow a lead up the coast.
Todd VanDerWerff, Vox:
Todd VanDerWerff, Vox:
On almost every level, it's the season's strongest hour. The performances feel on point. The dialogue has its overwrought moments but mostly stays in line. The storytelling feels more directed than it has all season long, with the characters finally making some progress in tying together the season's many plot threads, improbable though the connections may be. But it's also the episode that showed me just how little I gave a damn about any of this.Alan Sepinwall, HitFix
The short season is both a blessing and a curse here. Three more episodes is a small enough commitment that I'm going to stick this out for the occasional glimpses of what Pizzolatto and these actors do best, and to see whether — unlike last season — the story takes on any extra resonance once we've seen all of it. But it also doesn't feel like enough road for the season to truly straighten itself out.Sonia Sariya, Salon is more positive: "a really satisfying episode".
The camera of “True Detective” is always showing us those highways, either by slowly panning over them in somewhat ironic wonder or giving us the storytelling of two cops inside a car, or careening wildly on a motorcycle. The characters in this show are always moving up and down the coast, restlessly, shiftlessly, searchingly.Sean T. Collins, Rolling Stone blames the writing: "absolutely stuffed with plot points, pretzel-like twists and some seriously overripe, laugh-out-loud lines".
"The enemy won't reveal itself, Raymond," he says, like a summer-stock Pacino in Godfather III. "Stymies my retribution. It's like, uh, blue balls in your heart." Blue balls in your heart, people. Blue. Balls. In. Your. Heart. Look, a simile makes connections in order to uncover meaning, not overwhelm it; "blue balls in your heart" does nothing to explain the unique rage of delayed revenge except bury it under a mountain of "Wait…what the hell did he just say?" It's enough to give you, uh, jock itch in your brain.
I did like the shorthand of Frank's reduced "moved to Glendale" circumstances being telegraphed by the moving boxes in the first scenes.
But dear God that scene between Frank and Jordan at the club was painfully wooden. I don't think it's entirely Vince Vaughn's fault: more that the lines he's being given to deliver ("crime exists contingent on human desire") don't fit either him or the character he's playing.
I miss the 'tache.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 10:22 AM on July 20, 2015
But dear God that scene between Frank and Jordan at the club was painfully wooden. I don't think it's entirely Vince Vaughn's fault: more that the lines he's being given to deliver ("crime exists contingent on human desire") don't fit either him or the character he's playing.
I miss the 'tache.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 10:22 AM on July 20, 2015
Hey, as mid-season reboots go, this wasn't terrible
When they all met up at the building where the shootout started I was half expecting them to get up on the roof and start singing "Get Back"
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:28 AM on July 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
When they all met up at the building where the shootout started I was half expecting them to get up on the roof and start singing "Get Back"
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:28 AM on July 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yes: a literal "we're getting the band back together" moment.
Colin Farrell continues to impress.
Shane Ryan, Paste:
Colin Farrell continues to impress.
Shane Ryan, Paste:
There’s one reason to keep watching this show, and that reason is Colin Farrell. Let’s take a moment and really consider the magnitude of what he’s doing, because it’s mind-blowing. HBO called on Farrell to follow Matthew McConaughey, who turned in what I consider to be one of the greatest television acting performances of all time, and to match his intensity and charisma while carrying the second season of a show that was bound to be bombarded with endless scrutiny.posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 10:31 AM on July 20, 2015 [10 favorites]
Here’s the thing: He’s fucking doing it.
I liked this episode a lot more too, for a number of reasons. It actually made the first four episodes feel kind of like a prologue to me and I can accept them that way. It helps make up for the lack of characterization; we got some background, we know what's going on with the main characters and where they come from (we've heard about or met at least one family member/parent for everyone).
I've talked about my frustrations with Vince Vaughn's character where it felt like the show was substituting stress and "being a cool edgy guy" for character development and I think his scenes with his wife in this were a LOT better. They had a legit conversation and the bit where he told her that what she'd said really resonated with him was a good moment. It made him a real person and I was very happy about that.
I've also noticed an interesting tone of acknowledging and sort of addressing some MRA concerns in this. For example, the bit about how Ray's ex-wife is getting custody of his kid; automatically granting custody to the mother can be an MRA talking point (and is a legitimate point in the "patriarchy hurts everyone" conversation), but in this case Ray actually profoundly should not have custody of his son. I believe he legitimately loves his kid and that fact does not make him a good parent and I think demonstrating that in this case at least it is absolutely 100% in the child's best interest not to live with Ray is an interesting counterpoint, like, maybe this didn't happen because women are privileged, maybe this happened because you are not equipped to care for a child. Similarly, in the sexual harassment meeting those guys were just straight-up quoting the most basic of MRA talking points and they were written so unimaginatively that I think it was intentional. Again, the thing is, the guys were total dicks! Their already bad points were made all-the-more transparent by the way and context in which they said them! I'm enjoying the "WTF MRAs" undertone I think I'm seeing.
Finally, something that I liked about the last season and this season is how local they are. It's a show with a strong sense of place anyway, but I liked that the big deal guy spotted in the incriminating photos is a state senator. It's not some cartoonish "this goes all the way to the top -- the President is involved!" conspiracy, it all happens on a much more intimate scale. That makes it feel more real and also more intense. The mayor's kid being involved in shady dealings is totally 100% a thing that happens.
I liked this episode more because I feel like finally something HAPPENED. Some characters had more realistic conversations, there was some levity in the sexual harassment seminar, and we got hints of a shadowy conspiracy? Rick Springfield institutionalized the mayor's first wife possibly because she couldn't handle his crazy sex rituals? THAT is why I am watching. As I said before, I'm thinking of this as the real start of the show after an overly-long prologue introducing the characters and I'm way more on board than I'd expected to be after the first few episodes.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 10:36 AM on July 20, 2015 [10 favorites]
I've talked about my frustrations with Vince Vaughn's character where it felt like the show was substituting stress and "being a cool edgy guy" for character development and I think his scenes with his wife in this were a LOT better. They had a legit conversation and the bit where he told her that what she'd said really resonated with him was a good moment. It made him a real person and I was very happy about that.
I've also noticed an interesting tone of acknowledging and sort of addressing some MRA concerns in this. For example, the bit about how Ray's ex-wife is getting custody of his kid; automatically granting custody to the mother can be an MRA talking point (and is a legitimate point in the "patriarchy hurts everyone" conversation), but in this case Ray actually profoundly should not have custody of his son. I believe he legitimately loves his kid and that fact does not make him a good parent and I think demonstrating that in this case at least it is absolutely 100% in the child's best interest not to live with Ray is an interesting counterpoint, like, maybe this didn't happen because women are privileged, maybe this happened because you are not equipped to care for a child. Similarly, in the sexual harassment meeting those guys were just straight-up quoting the most basic of MRA talking points and they were written so unimaginatively that I think it was intentional. Again, the thing is, the guys were total dicks! Their already bad points were made all-the-more transparent by the way and context in which they said them! I'm enjoying the "WTF MRAs" undertone I think I'm seeing.
Finally, something that I liked about the last season and this season is how local they are. It's a show with a strong sense of place anyway, but I liked that the big deal guy spotted in the incriminating photos is a state senator. It's not some cartoonish "this goes all the way to the top -- the President is involved!" conspiracy, it all happens on a much more intimate scale. That makes it feel more real and also more intense. The mayor's kid being involved in shady dealings is totally 100% a thing that happens.
I liked this episode more because I feel like finally something HAPPENED. Some characters had more realistic conversations, there was some levity in the sexual harassment seminar, and we got hints of a shadowy conspiracy? Rick Springfield institutionalized the mayor's first wife possibly because she couldn't handle his crazy sex rituals? THAT is why I am watching. As I said before, I'm thinking of this as the real start of the show after an overly-long prologue introducing the characters and I'm way more on board than I'd expected to be after the first few episodes.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 10:36 AM on July 20, 2015 [10 favorites]
Eight episodes is just too short for shows like this.
With only three episodes left, they have a lot to cover, because it seems like the story is just now getting started, with everything up to now serving as just an introduction of the characters and the basic plot.
That said, I just looked up Season 1, and it was also only eight episodes. But somehow, it felt like it moved along at a good pace, perhaps because it needed to spend less time on character development, since there were only 2 main characters in it.
posted by eas98 at 10:46 AM on July 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
With only three episodes left, they have a lot to cover, because it seems like the story is just now getting started, with everything up to now serving as just an introduction of the characters and the basic plot.
That said, I just looked up Season 1, and it was also only eight episodes. But somehow, it felt like it moved along at a good pace, perhaps because it needed to spend less time on character development, since there were only 2 main characters in it.
posted by eas98 at 10:46 AM on July 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm enjoying the "WTF MRAs" undertone I think I'm seeing.
I think Paul's situation with the false rape/harrassment accusation sort of acts as a counterpoint to that, though.
Is it just me, or did they change the section of the Leonard Cohen song at the beginning that serves as the opening theme?
Point of geographic interest: It certainly seemed like Ani's trip to Guerneville was just a short little romp to check things out, but Guerneville is actually a ways north of San Francisco. It's a 6-7 hour drive from LA with no stops.
I did feel like this episode finally DID something though.
posted by LionIndex at 10:47 AM on July 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think Paul's situation with the false rape/harrassment accusation sort of acts as a counterpoint to that, though.
Is it just me, or did they change the section of the Leonard Cohen song at the beginning that serves as the opening theme?
Point of geographic interest: It certainly seemed like Ani's trip to Guerneville was just a short little romp to check things out, but Guerneville is actually a ways north of San Francisco. It's a 6-7 hour drive from LA with no stops.
I did feel like this episode finally DID something though.
posted by LionIndex at 10:47 AM on July 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think the structural problem I have with this season is that it’s Noir. Great noir stories are often full of plot holes, weird miserable people, incredible coincidences and eventually a slippery slope where everything starts moving too fast and the heroes lose control of the situation just as they started to understand it. That works GREAT in 90 minutes.
I don’t think it works great in 600 minutes.
I imagine watching Double Indemnity, Chinatown, or LA Confidential in 20 minute chunks with weeklong breaks in between and how they would lose all their pace. How all the loose threads and coincidences would look silly and confusing with that much time to stop and think.
posted by French Fry at 10:47 AM on July 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
I don’t think it works great in 600 minutes.
I imagine watching Double Indemnity, Chinatown, or LA Confidential in 20 minute chunks with weeklong breaks in between and how they would lose all their pace. How all the loose threads and coincidences would look silly and confusing with that much time to stop and think.
posted by French Fry at 10:47 AM on July 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
Eight episodes is just too short for shows like this.
Maybe the problem is just bad pacing; I feel like so far the problem is that it's been too long. Those first four episodes all they really had to do was establish a few basic background pieces for the characters and they could have done that in one or two episodes. Maybe I'll disagree afterwards and thing it just got too backloaded but so far I think the problem is too much time, not insufficient time.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 10:56 AM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
Maybe the problem is just bad pacing; I feel like so far the problem is that it's been too long. Those first four episodes all they really had to do was establish a few basic background pieces for the characters and they could have done that in one or two episodes. Maybe I'll disagree afterwards and thing it just got too backloaded but so far I think the problem is too much time, not insufficient time.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 10:56 AM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
it felt like it moved along at a good pace, perhaps because it needed to spend less time on character development, since there were only 2 main characters in it.
Yeah that's a big part of it for me. Too many characters means a diffusion of interest in each. So the deeply personal, dramatic scenes aren't nearly as impactful. Compare to Season 1, where both Marty and Rust had scenes that could melt your heart because you were so invested in them (particularly the last episode). But the other part of it is the story. At this point in Season 1, they had "solved" the case but we all knew that there was still one guy out there -- the giant, the yellow king. So three episodes for them to get back together, and find their guy. Here, we don't even know who the guy/gal is, how many there are, how deep it goes... I suspect Caspere's killer is the missing girl. Those photos she took imply she knew what was going on, and maybe she's looking to take down the whole enterprise. She "disappeared" not by force but by choice. Who knows. But still, this season is not nearly as focused as the first season, for better or for worse.
Also, did anybody find the editing of this episode SUPER WEIRD IF NOT EVEN BAD? The scene with Frank and his wife was, for whatever reason, cut in half. Frank and wife, super intense conversation! Now look at Paul, his fiance, and her mom. Now back to Frank and his wife -- let's pick it up AT THE EXACT SPOT we left it! It's not like it was important that these things were happening at the same time. Any juxtaposition between "parents want a kid but can't make it happen" and "parents who made a kid but didn't want to" would be there by letting the scene play out entirely and then cutting to Paul and his fiance.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 11:02 AM on July 20, 2015 [4 favorites]
Yeah that's a big part of it for me. Too many characters means a diffusion of interest in each. So the deeply personal, dramatic scenes aren't nearly as impactful. Compare to Season 1, where both Marty and Rust had scenes that could melt your heart because you were so invested in them (particularly the last episode). But the other part of it is the story. At this point in Season 1, they had "solved" the case but we all knew that there was still one guy out there -- the giant, the yellow king. So three episodes for them to get back together, and find their guy. Here, we don't even know who the guy/gal is, how many there are, how deep it goes... I suspect Caspere's killer is the missing girl. Those photos she took imply she knew what was going on, and maybe she's looking to take down the whole enterprise. She "disappeared" not by force but by choice. Who knows. But still, this season is not nearly as focused as the first season, for better or for worse.
Also, did anybody find the editing of this episode SUPER WEIRD IF NOT EVEN BAD? The scene with Frank and his wife was, for whatever reason, cut in half. Frank and wife, super intense conversation! Now look at Paul, his fiance, and her mom. Now back to Frank and his wife -- let's pick it up AT THE EXACT SPOT we left it! It's not like it was important that these things were happening at the same time. Any juxtaposition between "parents want a kid but can't make it happen" and "parents who made a kid but didn't want to" would be there by letting the scene play out entirely and then cutting to Paul and his fiance.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 11:02 AM on July 20, 2015 [4 favorites]
Yes: a literal "we're getting the band back together" moment
One of the people I was watching with asked at the beginning "how are they going to get the band back together," and my first reaction was "it'll be hard, because the band never liked each other in the first place." The answer was actually fairly satisfying, in that the show gave them all decent personal motivations for wanting in on the case and then gave them the chance. It was a little contrived, but that's part of the package for something like this.
I liked that this episode featured a return of some levity (Ani talks about penis size) and a few hints that we're getting back into the creepy sex cult which reminds me of what I want out of the show. It's sort of a shame that this season is really four episodes long, but I'm back on board.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:28 AM on July 20, 2015
One of the people I was watching with asked at the beginning "how are they going to get the band back together," and my first reaction was "it'll be hard, because the band never liked each other in the first place." The answer was actually fairly satisfying, in that the show gave them all decent personal motivations for wanting in on the case and then gave them the chance. It was a little contrived, but that's part of the package for something like this.
I liked that this episode featured a return of some levity (Ani talks about penis size) and a few hints that we're getting back into the creepy sex cult which reminds me of what I want out of the show. It's sort of a shame that this season is really four episodes long, but I'm back on board.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:28 AM on July 20, 2015
While I still felt this episode was weak (I'm with Vox in that I really don't feel any connection to the characters at all), it's the best overall. The scene with Rick Springfield was, indeed, awesome and what I've been waiting for this season. I felt like jumping and yelling FINALLY!!!!!! I agree with Mrs. Pterodactyl that we didn't need to wait until this far in to the season for that scene to happen. The show could have been streamlined a bit to get to this point sooner so we can spend more time nosing around now that it's really getting interesting.
posted by miss-lapin at 11:45 AM on July 20, 2015
posted by miss-lapin at 11:45 AM on July 20, 2015
I have to go back and check this but - the opening credits used different verses of the song, right? Not that I'd memorized the lyrics but they sounded very different to me last night.
posted by dnash at 11:46 AM on July 20, 2015
posted by dnash at 11:46 AM on July 20, 2015
I gotta say, I don't really like this show. Not just this season, but the show. It just seems so... bonkers. It's as if you took the incidental things from great crime stories and mashed them all together, careful to not steal the big enough things from those great stories because then it would be too easy to spot, but you're simply not talented enough to substitute your own great things to make the stories work.
This season just seems like it was created by someone who's read a lot of James Ellroy but doesn't know shit about cops or crime. I think in five episodes there's been like a dozen things that callback to Ellroy for me: the intentional poisoning of the land, the interrogation chair, the term "scrape job", the doctor who's employed by pimps to "cut whores", closeted cops, the large but few jewels, the bad man's wife who wants a child, the sex scandals that go right to the top... and of course, LA. Sure, many of these things are in more than Ellroy, but these are ALL in Ellroy. Seems way too coincidental, and, again, one probably wouldn't notice if there was a there there but there ain't.
I haven't checked yet to see if the show's been renewed, but I wish it will be, with Pizzalotto getting canned and replaced by any of his more competent contemporaries. Actors of this caliber, a clearly trusting network with big pockets... could be great. So disappointing that it's not.
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 11:47 AM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
This season just seems like it was created by someone who's read a lot of James Ellroy but doesn't know shit about cops or crime. I think in five episodes there's been like a dozen things that callback to Ellroy for me: the intentional poisoning of the land, the interrogation chair, the term "scrape job", the doctor who's employed by pimps to "cut whores", closeted cops, the large but few jewels, the bad man's wife who wants a child, the sex scandals that go right to the top... and of course, LA. Sure, many of these things are in more than Ellroy, but these are ALL in Ellroy. Seems way too coincidental, and, again, one probably wouldn't notice if there was a there there but there ain't.
I haven't checked yet to see if the show's been renewed, but I wish it will be, with Pizzalotto getting canned and replaced by any of his more competent contemporaries. Actors of this caliber, a clearly trusting network with big pockets... could be great. So disappointing that it's not.
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 11:47 AM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
Watching Ray grapple with the implications of his son's paternity is really good stuff (in a heartbreaking way). It's like he's so bewildered he doesn't know how to think about it, as he's developed an alternative narrative that was already hard to keep together emotionally. Also, he has to grapple with the fact that he killed someone who wasn't guilty, and the person who was is still alive. After the closing scene of the show, I'm really interested to see what happens next.
I gotta say, I don't really like this show. Not just this season, but the show.
I had a few snarky things to say, but
Never mind,
Never mind...
posted by SpacemanStix at 11:56 AM on July 20, 2015 [9 favorites]
I gotta say, I don't really like this show. Not just this season, but the show.
I had a few snarky things to say, but
Never mind,
Never mind...
posted by SpacemanStix at 11:56 AM on July 20, 2015 [9 favorites]
I'm really curious about Frank's wife. We know about him and some of his past, but not hers really. At first I thought her character was inconsistent, but now I think it's complicated, but we're only getting glimpses of it. I really want to know how she went from getting three abortions to wanting to adopt a child with Frank.
posted by miss-lapin at 11:59 AM on July 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by miss-lapin at 11:59 AM on July 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
Oh, another thing I liked about this episode was the bit with the shack with the birds around. As they went to open the door I flashed back to the last season when they found those kids and though "oh God, this is going to be horrifying..." and the they opened the door and there was just a chair, and it was kind of anticlimactic and a relief and I was sort of like "why did I think this would be a big deal?" and then I saw the details. It substituted creeping horror for shocking horror in a way I thought was really well done and affected me in a satisfying way.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 12:21 PM on July 20, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 12:21 PM on July 20, 2015 [5 favorites]
Watching Ray grapple with the implications of his son's paternity is really good stuff (in a heartbreaking way)
Twist! I think they'll find out that the kid is actually Ray's.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 12:24 PM on July 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
Twist! I think they'll find out that the kid is actually Ray's.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 12:24 PM on July 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
Somehow it seems like Ray could be devastated by either result.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 12:27 PM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by paper chromatographologist at 12:27 PM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
That would be an awesome twist.
Although he still killed a guy. It was notable, though, that how it played out with his ex-wife is that she thinks he now made up the story about killing someone, and he doesn't correct her. He can probably hide behind that perception.
Without that hanging over his head, and him staying clean and sober, he has a chance for partial custody, whether or not we think he should.
posted by SpacemanStix at 12:31 PM on July 20, 2015
Although he still killed a guy. It was notable, though, that how it played out with his ex-wife is that she thinks he now made up the story about killing someone, and he doesn't correct her. He can probably hide behind that perception.
Without that hanging over his head, and him staying clean and sober, he has a chance for partial custody, whether or not we think he should.
posted by SpacemanStix at 12:31 PM on July 20, 2015
This episode mostly confused me (and continues to make me feel like Paul is a useless character), but I thought the acting was good. Ray's face when he finds out from that his wife's rapist has been caught was incredible.
I like a plot with twists and weird connections, but it seem a little too coincidental. Ani only came across the missing girl because she was serving a foreclosure notice. And her father just happens to lead a cult that's connected to all these people. And her sister conveniently knows the girls who are involved in these parties.
posted by radioamy at 12:36 PM on July 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
I like a plot with twists and weird connections, but it seem a little too coincidental. Ani only came across the missing girl because she was serving a foreclosure notice. And her father just happens to lead a cult that's connected to all these people. And her sister conveniently knows the girls who are involved in these parties.
posted by radioamy at 12:36 PM on July 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
Big points to Ani for trolling the self help group, that was hilarious.
Otherwise, the getting the group back together should have occurred about an episode or two ago. Unless there's some spectacular way this is all going to tie together (and judging by season 1 there isn't), this season has been too unfocused and plodding. Drop Paul, focus on Ray and Ani, with a bit of Frank in the midground and visit spend some time in the seemy underbelly of LA/Vinci/whatever.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:46 PM on July 20, 2015
Otherwise, the getting the group back together should have occurred about an episode or two ago. Unless there's some spectacular way this is all going to tie together (and judging by season 1 there isn't), this season has been too unfocused and plodding. Drop Paul, focus on Ray and Ani, with a bit of Frank in the midground and visit spend some time in the seemy underbelly of LA/Vinci/whatever.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:46 PM on July 20, 2015
There is absolutely no causal link between an American woman in 2015 having had three abortions in her 20s and then later experiencing infertility. Fuck these writers for misogynistically suggesting that.
posted by hush at 12:54 PM on July 20, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by hush at 12:54 PM on July 20, 2015 [10 favorites]
Ohhh the "procedures" were abortions. Jordan and Frank mumble so much when they talk that I can never fully make out their conversations. Did she have the abortions when they were together?
posted by radioamy at 12:57 PM on July 20, 2015
posted by radioamy at 12:57 PM on July 20, 2015
Also good catch to whoever noticed that the opening credits were different. My SO thinks that the visuals were different too.
posted by radioamy at 12:57 PM on July 20, 2015
posted by radioamy at 12:57 PM on July 20, 2015
Ohhh the "procedures" were abortions
Were they? It wasn't said specifically, I don't think, so there wasn't much clarity. One of them could have been botched, who knows?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:02 PM on July 20, 2015
Were they? It wasn't said specifically, I don't think, so there wasn't much clarity. One of them could have been botched, who knows?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:02 PM on July 20, 2015
There is absolutely no causal link between an American woman in 2015 having had three abortions in her 20s and then later experiencing infertility. Fuck these writers for misogynistically suggesting that.
Plenty of women I know who've had abortions think that it affects their fertility. Some I know think so for physiological reasons and others for spiritual ones. It's not that unusual for someone to think that, nor is it misogynistic.
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 1:09 PM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
Plenty of women I know who've had abortions think that it affects their fertility. Some I know think so for physiological reasons and others for spiritual ones. It's not that unusual for someone to think that, nor is it misogynistic.
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 1:09 PM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's realistic enough for her character to believe that, but it's sort of shitty that that's the reason the writers chose to fall back on to explain her fertility problems.
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:13 PM on July 20, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:13 PM on July 20, 2015 [4 favorites]
This episode mostly confused me (and continues to make me feel like Paul is a useless character), but I thought the acting was good.
I couldn't figure out why in the world he would leave 20,000 in cash at his mom's house. There was no better place to hide it?
Drop Paul, focus on Ray and Ani, with a bit of Frank in the midground and visit spend some time in the seemy underbelly of LA/Vinci/whatever.
Although I dig this season despite the criticisms, I think that might be the issue with the pacing. Too many major characters, where there were only two in season one.
posted by SpacemanStix at 1:23 PM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
I couldn't figure out why in the world he would leave 20,000 in cash at his mom's house. There was no better place to hide it?
Drop Paul, focus on Ray and Ani, with a bit of Frank in the midground and visit spend some time in the seemy underbelly of LA/Vinci/whatever.
Although I dig this season despite the criticisms, I think that might be the issue with the pacing. Too many major characters, where there were only two in season one.
posted by SpacemanStix at 1:23 PM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's realistic enough for her character to believe that, but it's sort of shitty that that's the reason the writers chose to fall back on to explain her fertility problems.
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:13 PM on July 20
I feel like it would be somewhat in keeping with the spirit of the show to have it turned out either that she's not having fertility problems, that the procedures didn't cause them, or that the procedures weren't abortions. Of course, it would also be in keeping with the spirit of the show to throw a woman through a factually sketchy abortion plot so that a man could grapple with his feelings about fatherhood.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 1:31 PM on July 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:13 PM on July 20
I feel like it would be somewhat in keeping with the spirit of the show to have it turned out either that she's not having fertility problems, that the procedures didn't cause them, or that the procedures weren't abortions. Of course, it would also be in keeping with the spirit of the show to throw a woman through a factually sketchy abortion plot so that a man could grapple with his feelings about fatherhood.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 1:31 PM on July 20, 2015 [3 favorites]
I feel like it would be somewhat in keeping with the spirit of the show to have it turned out either that she's not having fertility problems, that the procedures didn't cause them, or that the procedures weren't abortions.
If the last shot of the show is her in a nest full of giant eggs hatching into murderous crow-men, shouting "it worked, it worked," all is forgiven
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:11 PM on July 20, 2015 [16 favorites]
If the last shot of the show is her in a nest full of giant eggs hatching into murderous crow-men, shouting "it worked, it worked," all is forgiven
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:11 PM on July 20, 2015 [16 favorites]
One of the people I was watching with asked at the beginning "how are they going to get the band back together," and my first reaction was "it'll be hard, because the band never liked each other in the first place." The answer was actually fairly satisfying, in that the show gave them all decent personal motivations for wanting in on the case and then gave them the chance. It was a little contrived, but that's part of the package for something like this.
It's entirely in keeping with the genre, but I was amused by how the solution to a menacing and shadowy evil conspiracy is an equally secret, equally menacing good conspiracy (that just happens to be made up of the people most likely to be assumed to be part of any counter-conspiracy). Good people of Vinci, fear not, because Murderous Dad, Mean to the Harassment Counselor Lady, and My Lai Perpetrator Dude are all on the case! They will definitely not be involved in another firefight with double digit bystander casualties! They will, however, probably skulk around private homes and definitely will attack people who refuse to cooperate with their off-the-books investigation!
posted by Copronymus at 3:24 PM on July 20, 2015 [6 favorites]
It's entirely in keeping with the genre, but I was amused by how the solution to a menacing and shadowy evil conspiracy is an equally secret, equally menacing good conspiracy (that just happens to be made up of the people most likely to be assumed to be part of any counter-conspiracy). Good people of Vinci, fear not, because Murderous Dad, Mean to the Harassment Counselor Lady, and My Lai Perpetrator Dude are all on the case! They will definitely not be involved in another firefight with double digit bystander casualties! They will, however, probably skulk around private homes and definitely will attack people who refuse to cooperate with their off-the-books investigation!
posted by Copronymus at 3:24 PM on July 20, 2015 [6 favorites]
We had a deal, Kyle: Yes: a literal "we're getting the band back together" moment.
I was so annoyed at this moment. Not that it happened, but that it was arranged by the DA or assistant DA or whatever her title is. To me, the core idea of the show is that there's a case that's been closed and no one else wants to open again except for the detectives who keep having a niggling feeling that something's not quite right about it, that something doesn't fit, so they keep working the case, which is why they are the, you know, true detectives. It doesn't work if it's a DA with political aspirations bringing them together! You betrayed your own core idea, True Detective!
posted by bluecore at 4:57 PM on July 20, 2015 [7 favorites]
I was so annoyed at this moment. Not that it happened, but that it was arranged by the DA or assistant DA or whatever her title is. To me, the core idea of the show is that there's a case that's been closed and no one else wants to open again except for the detectives who keep having a niggling feeling that something's not quite right about it, that something doesn't fit, so they keep working the case, which is why they are the, you know, true detectives. It doesn't work if it's a DA with political aspirations bringing them together! You betrayed your own core idea, True Detective!
posted by bluecore at 4:57 PM on July 20, 2015 [7 favorites]
To me, the core idea of the show is that there's a case that's been closed and no one else wants to open again except for the detectives who keep having a niggling feeling that something's not quite right about it, that something doesn't fit, so they keep working the case, which is why they are the, you know, true detectives.
That puts a new angle on it for me, as I hadn't thought of that being the meaning of the show title before. There is something that keeps bugging Ani with the missing person, though, and she won't leave it alone. It has to be connected, and she'll get the others on board.
posted by SpacemanStix at 5:03 PM on July 20, 2015
That puts a new angle on it for me, as I hadn't thought of that being the meaning of the show title before. There is something that keeps bugging Ani with the missing person, though, and she won't leave it alone. It has to be connected, and she'll get the others on board.
posted by SpacemanStix at 5:03 PM on July 20, 2015
I just watched it and something in either the editing or the direction was way, way off. Maybe it was all those dead over the shoulder shots? It just fizzled the energy to me. Also cutting away from a pair in a scene and then cutting back to them was awkward as hell. And then some of the dialog didn't feel like two people talking, it felt like two people reciting lines. (Specifically the scene with the mother and son and then Frank and his wife in the club.)
It is weird that that bar has the same depressed woman playing guitar in it, but was was the reason for two shots of the female bartender?
I'm feeling this was the worst episode of the season so far.
posted by Catblack at 8:29 PM on July 20, 2015
It is weird that that bar has the same depressed woman playing guitar in it, but was was the reason for two shots of the female bartender?
I'm feeling this was the worst episode of the season so far.
posted by Catblack at 8:29 PM on July 20, 2015
Catblack - I think the bartender has some significance. They wouldn't have someone who knows Ray who has scars on her face if it didn't mean anything...I just don't know what yet!
bluecore, I totally know what you mean. It doesn't feel as rogue when it's orchestrated by a higher-up, even though it's on the DL.
posted by radioamy at 8:38 PM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
bluecore, I totally know what you mean. It doesn't feel as rogue when it's orchestrated by a higher-up, even though it's on the DL.
posted by radioamy at 8:38 PM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
The theme song was different this week. mr muffins and I were paying close attention, expecting a subtle change; did not expect an entirely different verse.
Velcoro dictating into a recording device while on the road gave me a chuckle. He's the fucked-up real world version of Dale Cooper.
posted by trunk muffins at 8:46 PM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
Velcoro dictating into a recording device while on the road gave me a chuckle. He's the fucked-up real world version of Dale Cooper.
posted by trunk muffins at 8:46 PM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
I got the impression earlier that the bartender is sweet on Ray, so they were showing reaction shots of her seeing Ray sitting there with Ani.
posted by LionIndex at 9:15 PM on July 20, 2015
posted by LionIndex at 9:15 PM on July 20, 2015
wtf frank sold his house!!
posted by mullacc at 10:01 PM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by mullacc at 10:01 PM on July 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
To me, the core idea of the show is that there's a case that's been closed and no one else wants to open again except for the detectives who keep having a niggling feeling that something's not quite right about it, that something doesn't fit, so they keep working the case, which is why they are the, you know, true detectives. It doesn't work if it's a DA with political aspirations bringing them together! You betrayed your own core idea, True Detective!
Actually, watching it again, Ani was all over this. She was trying to wrangle Ray back into it with her research on how the blue diamonds were connected to the missing person, before meeting with the DA, although Ray wasn't on board initially (he was weary and discouraged, not that he didn't believe the evidence). It parallels McConaughey and Harrelson a bit, in that Harrelson's character needed to get convinced to jump back in after McConaughey was working through it all again. Also, although Ray's motivation is in part the DA's ability to get his son back, Ani's parting shot at the get-together was that "it's never too late to start all over again." Ani is the true detective who gets everyone where they need to go, with at least some semblance of a proper motive for Ray.
posted by SpacemanStix at 10:59 PM on July 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
Actually, watching it again, Ani was all over this. She was trying to wrangle Ray back into it with her research on how the blue diamonds were connected to the missing person, before meeting with the DA, although Ray wasn't on board initially (he was weary and discouraged, not that he didn't believe the evidence). It parallels McConaughey and Harrelson a bit, in that Harrelson's character needed to get convinced to jump back in after McConaughey was working through it all again. Also, although Ray's motivation is in part the DA's ability to get his son back, Ani's parting shot at the get-together was that "it's never too late to start all over again." Ani is the true detective who gets everyone where they need to go, with at least some semblance of a proper motive for Ray.
posted by SpacemanStix at 10:59 PM on July 20, 2015 [2 favorites]
Ani's parting shot at the get-together was that "it's never too late to start all over again."
And interesting that Frank and his wife are doing this in parallel. New beginnings all round. The case, Ani's relationship with her sister, Paul and his pregnant girlfriend, and Ray potentially having partial custody.
posted by tracicle at 12:07 AM on July 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
And interesting that Frank and his wife are doing this in parallel. New beginnings all round. The case, Ani's relationship with her sister, Paul and his pregnant girlfriend, and Ray potentially having partial custody.
posted by tracicle at 12:07 AM on July 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
geographic interest: It certainly seemed like Ani's trip to Guerneville was just a short little romp to check things out, but Guerneville is actually a ways north of San Francisco. It's a 6-7 hour drive from LA with no stops.
Although those large hunks of granite and ponderosa and/or Jeffrey pine suggest the production did not quite make it that far.
posted by one_bean at 12:43 AM on July 21, 2015
Although those large hunks of granite and ponderosa and/or Jeffrey pine suggest the production did not quite make it that far.
posted by one_bean at 12:43 AM on July 21, 2015
wtf frank sold his house!!
And Ray lost the mustache. And Ani switched to analog cigarettes.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 3:56 AM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
And Ray lost the mustache. And Ani switched to analog cigarettes.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 3:56 AM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
And Paul's hair got mussed.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 4:51 AM on July 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 4:51 AM on July 21, 2015 [4 favorites]
Also, did anybody find the editing of this episode SUPER WEIRD IF NOT EVEN BAD? The scene with Frank and his wife was, for whatever reason, cut in half. Frank and wife, super intense conversation! Now look at Paul, his fiance, and her mom. Now back to Frank and his wife -- let's pick it up AT THE EXACT SPOT we left it!
That was so weird and I rolled my eyes when they returned to that scene because the first half was so plodding and wooden, as We had a deal, Kyle, observed, that it was painful to watch. I felt like the suspect in a Columbo episode, breathing a sigh of relief after kicking the detective out of my office only to have him barge in again a few minutes later. "Just one more thing..."
posted by mama casserole at 5:18 AM on July 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
That was so weird and I rolled my eyes when they returned to that scene because the first half was so plodding and wooden, as We had a deal, Kyle, observed, that it was painful to watch. I felt like the suspect in a Columbo episode, breathing a sigh of relief after kicking the detective out of my office only to have him barge in again a few minutes later. "Just one more thing..."
posted by mama casserole at 5:18 AM on July 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
To me, the core idea of the show is that there's a case that's been closed and no one else wants to open again except for the detectives who keep having a niggling feeling that something's not quite right about it, that something doesn't fit, so they keep working the case, which is why they are the, you know, true detectives.
Obligatory note about the original, once-famous True Detective magazine.
posted by Mothlight at 5:55 AM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
Obligatory note about the original, once-famous True Detective magazine.
posted by Mothlight at 5:55 AM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
I have no idea why some people thought this was a good episode. This show is so overstuffed with characters and plot points, that this episode actually had people talking in big exposition out loud. The scene with Pitlor was laughable with the exposition just falling out of his mouth.
I think it was the Grantland podcast that said this series will be a great addition to Cary Fukanaga's resume, because he can point to it and say, " I did the first season, not the second season. I was not involved with that."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 7:25 AM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think it was the Grantland podcast that said this series will be a great addition to Cary Fukanaga's resume, because he can point to it and say, " I did the first season, not the second season. I was not involved with that."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 7:25 AM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
This show is so overstuffed with characters and plot points, that this episode actually had people talking in big exposition out loud.
This isn't new to the season, though. Nothing will be worse than Frank's character literally giving a 5-minute monologue telling us how he grew up and why he acts the way he does. That was the low point of "tell don't show." I guess I liked this episode more than the others for two reasons: my standards have fallen to the point that I don't care about the expository dialogue; and story threads finally started coming together instead of continuing to unravel.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 7:32 AM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
This isn't new to the season, though. Nothing will be worse than Frank's character literally giving a 5-minute monologue telling us how he grew up and why he acts the way he does. That was the low point of "tell don't show." I guess I liked this episode more than the others for two reasons: my standards have fallen to the point that I don't care about the expository dialogue; and story threads finally started coming together instead of continuing to unravel.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 7:32 AM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
Another thing I realized when watching the show, was that because there are more significant characters to follow than Season 1, the production of the series itself is quite different.
In season one, there were two main characters, and they spent quite a bit of time working together. They were on set together for significant stretches.
In season two, there are four main characters, and it is clear that some of them rarely work together. How much time do you think Vince Vaughn has spent on set with Rachel McAdams?
Now combine that with the fact that there are multiple directors, and you can quickly envision a production that is fractured and chaotic and jerky. Now, most television is filmed exactly in this manner -- Game of Thrones is all over the map, literally.
But we're comparing this season of the show with last season, and the productions are very, very different.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 7:39 AM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
In season one, there were two main characters, and they spent quite a bit of time working together. They were on set together for significant stretches.
In season two, there are four main characters, and it is clear that some of them rarely work together. How much time do you think Vince Vaughn has spent on set with Rachel McAdams?
Now combine that with the fact that there are multiple directors, and you can quickly envision a production that is fractured and chaotic and jerky. Now, most television is filmed exactly in this manner -- Game of Thrones is all over the map, literally.
But we're comparing this season of the show with last season, and the productions are very, very different.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 7:39 AM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
SpacemanStix: Actually, watching it again, Ani was all over this.
That's what was so frustrating about it-- the pieces were all there but they dropped the ball on the one yard line... or whatever sports metaphor applies here. It should've been just Ani, Ray, and Paul at the warehouse as Ani's lays out the case and gets them all on board. The way the scene currently plays the DA gets Ray on board with the "I can help you get your kid back" which is A) questionable-- how much influence would a DA have over a judge in a non-criminal court/ family court matter? and B) It should be Ani getting Ray on board by convincing him to be the kind of detective/man his son deserves.
The DA also was there to deliver the bombshell news to Ray about finding the correct rapist, which is odd because it splits Ray's motivation. We're supposed to believe Ray, despite being shaking mad, goes to interrogate the psychiatrist/plastic surgeon *before* he makes the trip out to confront Frank? They tried to cover it with the "With the kind of day I'm having" line when he was beating the surgeon, but I don't think he would be doing anything on the case when he got that news. The news should've been delivered later by someone who wanted to derail him from making progress on the case, but I'm guessing they have too much story and not enough episodes so they had to compress the timeline.
posted by bluecore at 8:20 AM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
That's what was so frustrating about it-- the pieces were all there but they dropped the ball on the one yard line... or whatever sports metaphor applies here. It should've been just Ani, Ray, and Paul at the warehouse as Ani's lays out the case and gets them all on board. The way the scene currently plays the DA gets Ray on board with the "I can help you get your kid back" which is A) questionable-- how much influence would a DA have over a judge in a non-criminal court/ family court matter? and B) It should be Ani getting Ray on board by convincing him to be the kind of detective/man his son deserves.
The DA also was there to deliver the bombshell news to Ray about finding the correct rapist, which is odd because it splits Ray's motivation. We're supposed to believe Ray, despite being shaking mad, goes to interrogate the psychiatrist/plastic surgeon *before* he makes the trip out to confront Frank? They tried to cover it with the "With the kind of day I'm having" line when he was beating the surgeon, but I don't think he would be doing anything on the case when he got that news. The news should've been delivered later by someone who wanted to derail him from making progress on the case, but I'm guessing they have too much story and not enough episodes so they had to compress the timeline.
posted by bluecore at 8:20 AM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
how much influence would a DA have over a judge in a non-criminal court/ family court matter?
I believe the DA said she would talk to the department of family services or something, not that she herself would be the one helping.
Even still, it would have been better for the detectives to come together without the DA. Maybe the DA is the true detective.
posted by LizBoBiz at 8:29 AM on July 21, 2015
I believe the DA said she would talk to the department of family services or something, not that she herself would be the one helping.
Even still, it would have been better for the detectives to come together without the DA. Maybe the DA is the true detective.
posted by LizBoBiz at 8:29 AM on July 21, 2015
how much influence would a DA have over a judge in a non-criminal court/ family court matter?
Story-wise, it kinda doesn't matter. Characters A and B desperately want something. Character B says they can help Character A, but only if XYZ happens. Character A now has both direction and purpose, and Character B is getting what they want. Drama comes from this, and if we then discover that Character B is lying, more drama can be mined.
This is exactly what Frank did to Velcoro in the past, and Velcoro believed him and took the action that they both wanted. Why would a gangster know anything about a random rapist? How could you trust a gangster? Doesn't matter. Velcoro wanted something. Frank wanted something, too. Draaaaama!
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:19 AM on July 21, 2015
Story-wise, it kinda doesn't matter. Characters A and B desperately want something. Character B says they can help Character A, but only if XYZ happens. Character A now has both direction and purpose, and Character B is getting what they want. Drama comes from this, and if we then discover that Character B is lying, more drama can be mined.
This is exactly what Frank did to Velcoro in the past, and Velcoro believed him and took the action that they both wanted. Why would a gangster know anything about a random rapist? How could you trust a gangster? Doesn't matter. Velcoro wanted something. Frank wanted something, too. Draaaaama!
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:19 AM on July 21, 2015
Not that I'd memorized the lyrics but they sounded very different to me last night.
This article on Polygon talks about the changing lyrics throughout the season. (It was written after episode 4.) It's also a good review/analysis for those like me who feel like they're missing half of what's going because this show should have a "best watched with headphones" warning at the start
posted by sylvanshine at 9:25 AM on July 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
This article on Polygon talks about the changing lyrics throughout the season. (It was written after episode 4.) It's also a good review/analysis for those like me who feel like they're missing half of what's going because this show should have a "best watched with headphones" warning at the start
posted by sylvanshine at 9:25 AM on July 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
Cool Papa Bell: Story-wise, it kinda doesn't matter.
It matters a little from a suspension of disbelief standpoint, but my objection was more about the DA pulling the strings and not Ani getting them together to do real detective. I mean, if your drama is about getting manipulated by District Attorneys, sure, go with this moment. But this is True Detective! This moment is the hero's calling, the moment where they set aside their personal problems and their vices and they step up to the plate to solve the case. The drama should come from everyone in the world having a vested interest in the truth not coming out, and trying desperately to stop them, but our heroes plow ahead anyway. That's what was cool about season one, to me at least. Despite having fucked over each other royally, Rust and Cohle knew there was real detective work to be done and they had to do it. The DA establishing a double top secret task force to do it doesn't feel right to me, even if you get a little side drama from the DA being disingenuous with Ray.
posted by bluecore at 9:52 AM on July 21, 2015
It matters a little from a suspension of disbelief standpoint, but my objection was more about the DA pulling the strings and not Ani getting them together to do real detective. I mean, if your drama is about getting manipulated by District Attorneys, sure, go with this moment. But this is True Detective! This moment is the hero's calling, the moment where they set aside their personal problems and their vices and they step up to the plate to solve the case. The drama should come from everyone in the world having a vested interest in the truth not coming out, and trying desperately to stop them, but our heroes plow ahead anyway. That's what was cool about season one, to me at least. Despite having fucked over each other royally, Rust and Cohle knew there was real detective work to be done and they had to do it. The DA establishing a double top secret task force to do it doesn't feel right to me, even if you get a little side drama from the DA being disingenuous with Ray.
posted by bluecore at 9:52 AM on July 21, 2015
It could still happen, though, don't you think? I think even with mixed motives, we might still see some selfless stuff go down when the truth starts to come out. I still wonder if an underlying theme in the show might be the redemption of these characters to some semblance of peace as they grapple with the reality of what starts to unravel, and they do the (hopefully) right thing for the right reasons. It seems to be trying to get the characters in that direction, although it's sort of hobbling there at the moment.
Or at least, one could hope...
posted by SpacemanStix at 10:30 AM on July 21, 2015
Or at least, one could hope...
posted by SpacemanStix at 10:30 AM on July 21, 2015
Oh my god Rick Springfield. I kept seeing you guys talk about him and thinking, "was I asleep during that part? where the hell was Rick Springfield?" and then I gised "rick springfield true detective." What. I never would have figured that out on my own in a thousand years.
posted by something something at 11:05 AM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by something something at 11:05 AM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oh my god Rick Springfield.
Twist: Ray's name is really Jesse, and Springfield went into hiding as a psychiatrist and got plastic surgery for stealing his girlfriend. Now it's payback time.
posted by SpacemanStix at 11:25 AM on July 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
Twist: Ray's name is really Jesse, and Springfield went into hiding as a psychiatrist and got plastic surgery for stealing his girlfriend. Now it's payback time.
posted by SpacemanStix at 11:25 AM on July 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
RAY: I'm going to give you exactly what you need, doctor!
DOCTOR: What's that?
RAY: The human touch! *POW*
I know we pretty much established that the bartender can't be the raven when we were discussing the second episode, but I still feel like she's in on something. Like, she got her scars from dealing with Caspere or Chessani or something.
posted by LionIndex at 11:47 AM on July 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
DOCTOR: What's that?
RAY: The human touch! *POW*
I know we pretty much established that the bartender can't be the raven when we were discussing the second episode, but I still feel like she's in on something. Like, she got her scars from dealing with Caspere or Chessani or something.
posted by LionIndex at 11:47 AM on July 21, 2015 [2 favorites]
I know we pretty much established that the bartender can't be the raven when we were discussing the second episode, but I still feel like she's in on something.
Baseless Speculation Alert: The bartender and the "missing girl" are in cahoots. CAHOOTS, I tell ya.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 12:16 PM on July 21, 2015
Baseless Speculation Alert: The bartender and the "missing girl" are in cahoots. CAHOOTS, I tell ya.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 12:16 PM on July 21, 2015
Baseless speculation alert: the guy Frank fingered as Ray's ex-wife's rapist was actually the guy who messed up the bartender's face.
posted by EXISTENZ IS PAUSED at 1:31 PM on July 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by EXISTENZ IS PAUSED at 1:31 PM on July 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
There are SO many scenes of Frank explaining why his situation is difficult. I don't care any more. I really don't. I want to fast-forward through all of the Frank scenes at this point. This is the worst violation of the "show, don't tell" rule. One more self-important Frank monologue and I will lose it completely. At the same time, I bust out laughing at least once an episode with his lines. "Blueballs in your heart", and the way it was delivered - so stupid, and so 100% Frank, that I had to pause the episode and get all the laughs out. The Vince Vaughn character is one long, drawn-out joke, right? Can we call it yet?
posted by naju at 4:35 PM on July 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by naju at 4:35 PM on July 21, 2015 [3 favorites]
This is the worst violation of the "show, don't tell" rule.
I've tried to reconcile it by concluding that they are "show"ing us a character who happens to "tell" too much about themselves. Don't we all know someone like that? It stems from a deep insecurity of his character who never had secure familial attachment during his formative years while in foster care.
yeah, that's gotta be it.
posted by SpacemanStix at 4:50 PM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
I've tried to reconcile it by concluding that they are "show"ing us a character who happens to "tell" too much about themselves. Don't we all know someone like that? It stems from a deep insecurity of his character who never had secure familial attachment during his formative years while in foster care.
yeah, that's gotta be it.
posted by SpacemanStix at 4:50 PM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
I enjoyed the fact that this is the first episode with more than 5% of the airtime taken up by actually doing detective work.
Once again, Vaughn's scenes were mostly of interest when he was doing something about his problems rather than talking about them. I liked his interaction with the CEO of EvilCorporWhateverItsCalled, which brought out the fact that Vaughn understands how to make himself enough of a threat to get to the bargaining table but knows where to draw the line (be respectful, make yourself useful).
Ani's scene with her sister surprised me. Feels like she's sending her sis into a potentially quite dangerous situation, which struck me as running against both the protectiveness towards and distrust of her sibling she shows in previous episodes.
I thought that Velcoro's meeting with his ex-wife was beautifully done in an absolutely cringe-worthy manner - the way his mind was obviously, desperately running through every possible permutation of "which is worse: my wife knowing I murdered an innocent man or my wife believing I'm a pathetic loser who made up a revenge story to impress her". The fact that he dug that pit himself didn't make it any easier to watch.
posted by AdamCSnider at 9:51 PM on July 21, 2015 [7 favorites]
Once again, Vaughn's scenes were mostly of interest when he was doing something about his problems rather than talking about them. I liked his interaction with the CEO of EvilCorporWhateverItsCalled, which brought out the fact that Vaughn understands how to make himself enough of a threat to get to the bargaining table but knows where to draw the line (be respectful, make yourself useful).
Ani's scene with her sister surprised me. Feels like she's sending her sis into a potentially quite dangerous situation, which struck me as running against both the protectiveness towards and distrust of her sibling she shows in previous episodes.
I thought that Velcoro's meeting with his ex-wife was beautifully done in an absolutely cringe-worthy manner - the way his mind was obviously, desperately running through every possible permutation of "which is worse: my wife knowing I murdered an innocent man or my wife believing I'm a pathetic loser who made up a revenge story to impress her". The fact that he dug that pit himself didn't make it any easier to watch.
posted by AdamCSnider at 9:51 PM on July 21, 2015 [7 favorites]
they're missing half of what's going because this show should have a "best watched with headphones" warning at the start
Another option is to turn the closed captioning on, which I do for this series.
posted by dogwalker at 10:23 PM on July 21, 2015
Another option is to turn the closed captioning on, which I do for this series.
posted by dogwalker at 10:23 PM on July 21, 2015
"Blueballs in your heart", and the way it was delivered - so stupid, and so 100% Frank, that I had to pause the episode and get all the laughs out. The Vince Vaughn character is one long, drawn-out joke, right?
This season seems to be wearing its influences on its sleeve (David Lynch, James Elroy, Chinatown etc) but these moments have been most reminding me of Ridley Scott's The Counselor, a film which is either a risible, overwrought disaster or a misunderstood masterpiece, depending on who you listen to.
I also reckon Vaughan has been mimicking the vocal cadences of Christopher Walken (in some scenes, at least—his dialogue/line reading is pretty inconsistent, to say the least).
posted by EXISTENZ IS PAUSED at 11:24 PM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
This season seems to be wearing its influences on its sleeve (David Lynch, James Elroy, Chinatown etc) but these moments have been most reminding me of Ridley Scott's The Counselor, a film which is either a risible, overwrought disaster or a misunderstood masterpiece, depending on who you listen to.
I also reckon Vaughan has been mimicking the vocal cadences of Christopher Walken (in some scenes, at least—his dialogue/line reading is pretty inconsistent, to say the least).
posted by EXISTENZ IS PAUSED at 11:24 PM on July 21, 2015 [1 favorite]
People here seem mighty annoyed that the DA was there for the band reunion scene. I gather this is because they believe that (a) that scene was earnest and straightforward as a statement of purpose for the last half of the series, and (b) the DA is clearly the important guiding catalast to their reunion as a disinterested party. But I don't really buy either of those points. The scene explicitly dealt with the fact that the DA is not disinterested, and even Ray, the ghost haunting this season, is only in that for his kids.
I think a lot of us who want true detectives to go off on their own free from the entanglements of layered interest and payoffs and compromise to solve this thing, like they did last season, are going to be disappointed. California isn't like that. If the show is at all true to its premise for this season, it's going to be like that all the way, and we'll never really be rid of people and motives that make us a little queasy.
And, yeah - I still don't trust the DA lady.
At least now Velcoro is awake to the personal nature of this case. That's setting up an interesting confrontation next episode.
posted by koeselitz at 12:10 AM on July 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
I think a lot of us who want true detectives to go off on their own free from the entanglements of layered interest and payoffs and compromise to solve this thing, like they did last season, are going to be disappointed. California isn't like that. If the show is at all true to its premise for this season, it's going to be like that all the way, and we'll never really be rid of people and motives that make us a little queasy.
And, yeah - I still don't trust the DA lady.
At least now Velcoro is awake to the personal nature of this case. That's setting up an interesting confrontation next episode.
posted by koeselitz at 12:10 AM on July 22, 2015 [3 favorites]
but these moments have been most reminding me of Ridley Scott's The Counselor, a film which is either a risible, overwrought disaster or a misunderstood masterpiece, depending on who you listen to.
Yes! Totally. This reference has been on my mind all season. I still don't know what to think about that movie, either.
posted by naju at 12:17 AM on July 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yes! Totally. This reference has been on my mind all season. I still don't know what to think about that movie, either.
posted by naju at 12:17 AM on July 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Offering without comment, a friend's musings: "Vaughn is intentionally wooden because he's a Taranteeny mobster play-acting a legitimate business man. He has a persona that he's constantly employing, community theatre style."
posted by naju at 12:31 AM on July 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by naju at 12:31 AM on July 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
koeselitz: People here seem mighty annoyed that the DA was there for the band reunion scene.
I'm annoyed she's at the band getting back together scene because she's not part of the band. You know how I know she's not part of the band? Because none of us know her name! I'm fine with the true detectives getting wrapped up in entanglements and payoffs and compromise, and I'm fine with her manipulating Ray and using his son as leverage, but this should've been a pure moment before our heroes fight back into the shitstorm.
posted by bluecore at 8:21 AM on July 22, 2015
I'm annoyed she's at the band getting back together scene because she's not part of the band. You know how I know she's not part of the band? Because none of us know her name! I'm fine with the true detectives getting wrapped up in entanglements and payoffs and compromise, and I'm fine with her manipulating Ray and using his son as leverage, but this should've been a pure moment before our heroes fight back into the shitstorm.
posted by bluecore at 8:21 AM on July 22, 2015
I was just thinking about a plot point that I don't quite understand. Can someone help me out?
I know that Frank and Caspere were involved in land deals along the high-speed rail corridor. I *think* that the deals hadn't quite gone through when Caspere died. What I don't understand is the contamination of the land. It's been alluded to several times, and I think it had something to do with a waste management company that Frank owned, but I'm not sure I get the details.
posted by radioamy at 8:43 AM on July 22, 2015
I know that Frank and Caspere were involved in land deals along the high-speed rail corridor. I *think* that the deals hadn't quite gone through when Caspere died. What I don't understand is the contamination of the land. It's been alluded to several times, and I think it had something to do with a waste management company that Frank owned, but I'm not sure I get the details.
posted by radioamy at 8:43 AM on July 22, 2015
bluecore: “I'm annoyed she's at the band getting back together scene because she's not part of the band. You know how I know she's not part of the band? Because none of us know her name! I'm fine with the true detectives getting wrapped up in entanglements and payoffs and compromise, and I'm fine with her manipulating Ray and using his son as leverage, but this should've been a pure moment before our heroes fight back into the shitstorm.”
I don't think there is a band. I'm not sure there should be one. I'm still sorting that out, really, but if there is a meeting of souls of the True Detective Squad or whatever, I don't think that scene was it. And I'm not sure we're going to get any pure moments, at least not in that way.
I do wish we knew her name, though.
posted by koeselitz at 9:07 AM on July 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
I don't think there is a band. I'm not sure there should be one. I'm still sorting that out, really, but if there is a meeting of souls of the True Detective Squad or whatever, I don't think that scene was it. And I'm not sure we're going to get any pure moments, at least not in that way.
I do wish we knew her name, though.
posted by koeselitz at 9:07 AM on July 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
What I don't understand is the contamination of the land. It's been alluded to several times, and I think it had something to do with a waste management company that Frank owned, but I'm not sure I get the details.
You ever see Chinatown? There, the Syndicate was diverting water away from the farmers' fields to dry them out, then buy the property at a great price. Same thing here -- pollute the farms in the valley, drive the farmers out and the land prices down, buy the parcels before the railway is announced. Once it's announced, the land along the corridor is worth a lot. Either because the government will buy it from you or, if it's near a stop, you can put up retail.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 9:22 AM on July 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
You ever see Chinatown? There, the Syndicate was diverting water away from the farmers' fields to dry them out, then buy the property at a great price. Same thing here -- pollute the farms in the valley, drive the farmers out and the land prices down, buy the parcels before the railway is announced. Once it's announced, the land along the corridor is worth a lot. Either because the government will buy it from you or, if it's near a stop, you can put up retail.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 9:22 AM on July 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
radioamy: “I know that Frank and Caspere were involved in land deals along the high-speed rail corridor. I *think* that the deals hadn't quite gone through when Caspere died. What I don't understand is the contamination of the land. It's been alluded to several times, and I think it had something to do with a waste management company that Frank owned, but I'm not sure I get the details.”
I'm only maybe half a step ahead of you on this, if I'm ahead of you at all, but my sense was: (1) ground owned by the state (or some private individuals?) is declared "contaminated" by some inspector; (2) state sells "contaminated" land that cannot be used for farming or building or anything to certain landowners for a very low price, since it is "contaminated" after all; (3) those certain landowners hire the less-than-reputable waste management company to "clean up" the "contaminated" land, just in time for (4) the federal government to buy that suddenly clean land for more than market value ("guaranteed cost overages") for the corridor of their new high-speed rail project.
Everybody says publicly that the certain landowners who were the middlemen here paid big bucks to the waste management company for a very costly cleanup of industrial contamination, and that's why the huge profit they reaped by selling it back to the federal government is deserved. But the scam is – the land was never actually contaminated; the inspector who originally declared it "contaminated," the people who bought it, the people who "cleaned it up," and probably even the state officials who sold it to the landowners at a low price in the first place are all in cahoots together.
Frank Semyon apparently got into this deal as the guy who provided a front that magically "cleaned up" the land – and he wants to be part of the deal on the back end, by putting up enough capital to be one of the landowners who are middlemen and get to sell back to the feds at outrageous profit. He sunk his life savings into that hope, Caspere was his middleman in buying a stake from Catalast, and Osip, the Russian, was going to be his partner in that stake. Now everything has apparently fallen through.
posted by koeselitz at 9:26 AM on July 22, 2015 [7 favorites]
I'm only maybe half a step ahead of you on this, if I'm ahead of you at all, but my sense was: (1) ground owned by the state (or some private individuals?) is declared "contaminated" by some inspector; (2) state sells "contaminated" land that cannot be used for farming or building or anything to certain landowners for a very low price, since it is "contaminated" after all; (3) those certain landowners hire the less-than-reputable waste management company to "clean up" the "contaminated" land, just in time for (4) the federal government to buy that suddenly clean land for more than market value ("guaranteed cost overages") for the corridor of their new high-speed rail project.
Everybody says publicly that the certain landowners who were the middlemen here paid big bucks to the waste management company for a very costly cleanup of industrial contamination, and that's why the huge profit they reaped by selling it back to the federal government is deserved. But the scam is – the land was never actually contaminated; the inspector who originally declared it "contaminated," the people who bought it, the people who "cleaned it up," and probably even the state officials who sold it to the landowners at a low price in the first place are all in cahoots together.
Frank Semyon apparently got into this deal as the guy who provided a front that magically "cleaned up" the land – and he wants to be part of the deal on the back end, by putting up enough capital to be one of the landowners who are middlemen and get to sell back to the feds at outrageous profit. He sunk his life savings into that hope, Caspere was his middleman in buying a stake from Catalast, and Osip, the Russian, was going to be his partner in that stake. Now everything has apparently fallen through.
posted by koeselitz at 9:26 AM on July 22, 2015 [7 favorites]
Or – like (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates said above, except I'm pretty sure part of the scam is that there's no real contamination.
posted by koeselitz at 9:27 AM on July 22, 2015
posted by koeselitz at 9:27 AM on July 22, 2015
Yeah good call koeselitz.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 9:29 AM on July 22, 2015
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 9:29 AM on July 22, 2015
Ohhhhhhhhh. Thanks koeselitz.
(And yes I have seen Chinatown, that does give me some context...although I was so disturbed by the end that the rest of the plot was sort of erased from my brain.)
posted by radioamy at 10:07 AM on July 22, 2015
(And yes I have seen Chinatown, that does give me some context...although I was so disturbed by the end that the rest of the plot was sort of erased from my brain.)
posted by radioamy at 10:07 AM on July 22, 2015
Thanks sylvanshine for the Polygon tip...they explain everything very well!
posted by radioamy at 12:24 PM on July 22, 2015
posted by radioamy at 12:24 PM on July 22, 2015
Ani's scene with her sister surprised me. Feels like she's sending her sis into a potentially quite dangerous situation, which struck me as running against both the protectiveness towards and distrust of her sibling she shows in previous episodes.
I thought the same thing at first, but then she says to her sister, "For the straight up purpose of getting me into that party, okay?" So I'm guessing we're about to get an episode where Ani poses as a high class escort to infiltrate an Eyes Wide Shut-style "elite party" that's been alluded to several times now. I also suspect things may go awry.
posted by Timmoy Daen at 12:53 PM on July 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
I thought the same thing at first, but then she says to her sister, "For the straight up purpose of getting me into that party, okay?" So I'm guessing we're about to get an episode where Ani poses as a high class escort to infiltrate an Eyes Wide Shut-style "elite party" that's been alluded to several times now. I also suspect things may go awry.
posted by Timmoy Daen at 12:53 PM on July 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yeah, the more I think about it, the more it seems like all the pieces are finally moving into place for something huge. I get the feeling the final episodes are going to be BONKERS. (I also suspect that, like, half of the cast we've seen are going to end up at that party. "I live among you, well disguised.")
posted by naju at 1:37 PM on July 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by naju at 1:37 PM on July 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yeah, the more I think about it, the more it seems like all the pieces are finally moving into place for something huge.
That, as much as anything, is what I liked about this episode. It finally feels like this is going somewhere, and that the somewhere also involves pretty much all of the characters I enjoyed from the first half, like the Mayor and his creepy weirdo son and Rick Springfield.
I am also the naive fool still holding out some hope that this will turn out to be about the occult origins of the US highway system, and, to the show's credit, there's still a chance it zags in that direction.
posted by Copronymus at 1:56 PM on July 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
That, as much as anything, is what I liked about this episode. It finally feels like this is going somewhere, and that the somewhere also involves pretty much all of the characters I enjoyed from the first half, like the Mayor and his creepy weirdo son and Rick Springfield.
I am also the naive fool still holding out some hope that this will turn out to be about the occult origins of the US highway system, and, to the show's credit, there's still a chance it zags in that direction.
posted by Copronymus at 1:56 PM on July 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
Because none of us know her name!
In conversation with others I've referred to her as DA Brianna Barksdale but IMDb says Michael Hyatt's character is named Katherine Davis.
posted by juiceCake at 1:56 PM on July 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
In conversation with others I've referred to her as DA Brianna Barksdale but IMDb says Michael Hyatt's character is named Katherine Davis.
posted by juiceCake at 1:56 PM on July 22, 2015 [4 favorites]
I thought the same thing at first, but then she says to her sister, "For the straight up purpose of getting me into that party, okay?" So I'm guessing we're about to get an episode where Ani poses as a high class escort to infiltrate an Eyes Wide Shut-style "elite party" that's been alluded to several times now. I also suspect things may go awry.
Good point, I missed that first time through. Maybe we'll get to see some stabbity-stab after all. :)
posted by AdamCSnider at 5:05 PM on July 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
Good point, I missed that first time through. Maybe we'll get to see some stabbity-stab after all. :)
posted by AdamCSnider at 5:05 PM on July 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
I love the breathlessly baffled tone of this Guardian article. True Detective: is it OK to admit that no one knows what's going on?
posted by naju at 9:58 PM on July 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by naju at 9:58 PM on July 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
I thought the same thing at first, but then she says to her sister, "For the straight up purpose of getting me into that party, okay?"
I suspect that, despite Ani's intention to imperil only herself, her sister is going to end up in danger.
posted by EXISTENZ IS PAUSED at 11:05 PM on July 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
I suspect that, despite Ani's intention to imperil only herself, her sister is going to end up in danger.
posted by EXISTENZ IS PAUSED at 11:05 PM on July 22, 2015 [1 favorite]
It is wrong on at least one point, however; Frank Semyon didn't say "it stymies my reputation," he said "it stymies my retribution." Which makes some sense, as much as I hate to admit it.
posted by koeselitz at 12:06 PM on July 23, 2015
posted by koeselitz at 12:06 PM on July 23, 2015
I love the breathlessly baffled tone of this Guardian article. True Detective: is it OK to admit that no one knows what's going on?
What I find interesting is that the muddledness that the article gets an in trying to find a clear narrative thread is what real life can feel like when we are stuck between what is going on in our own heads and what is required of us in real life. Each of these characters have been spending a whole lot of time in their own heads, with their painful pasts and their current problems, such that they all seem to be half there and half in the present, just trying to get by and sometimes by not always caring about the case at hand. I am interested to see what it will take in the remaining episodes to snap them out of their heads and fully into the game, because I feel like that's where everything is headed. It would have to be something big, as each character is dealing with some significant things.
posted by SpacemanStix at 3:19 PM on July 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
What I find interesting is that the muddledness that the article gets an in trying to find a clear narrative thread is what real life can feel like when we are stuck between what is going on in our own heads and what is required of us in real life. Each of these characters have been spending a whole lot of time in their own heads, with their painful pasts and their current problems, such that they all seem to be half there and half in the present, just trying to get by and sometimes by not always caring about the case at hand. I am interested to see what it will take in the remaining episodes to snap them out of their heads and fully into the game, because I feel like that's where everything is headed. It would have to be something big, as each character is dealing with some significant things.
posted by SpacemanStix at 3:19 PM on July 23, 2015 [1 favorite]
Really, I am willing to forgive all of this show's flaws if it keeps up the pace it hit at the end of episode 4, and through episode 5. I would have been happier if the pace had picked up 2 episodes earlier. I love TV shows that take their time to develop, but they have to do it right.
posted by isthmus at 10:00 PM on July 23, 2015
posted by isthmus at 10:00 PM on July 23, 2015
This season is one hot mess, in the words of my BF. For every decent scene such as the sexual-harassment group, there is the inexplicably split scene between Frank and his wife (and as much as I like VV, he has zero chemistry with Kelly Reilly) which completely drained any tension in the exchange. Not that I care about whether they want a kid or adopt or.... argh shut up about it already! Seeing the cops do actual policework saved the episode from our just turning it off.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 5:13 AM on July 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 5:13 AM on July 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
I really like Frank's crazy lines and metaphors.
posted by humanfont at 5:42 PM on July 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by humanfont at 5:42 PM on July 24, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think that a black rage will go a long way towards motivating us to watch the final episodes.
posted by Chitownfats at 2:48 PM on July 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Chitownfats at 2:48 PM on July 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
I don't know the sprawl of this thing. The people I'm after, they're all fucking over, they're in a lot of different things... pieces, family trees. The only way for you to understand what I'm on to here is for me to show you.I'm enjoying this season so far. A few people here and elsewhere have compared it to a James Ellroy novel, and that seems about right.
Rust Cohle, "After You've Gone"
Wild speculation alert with a helping of Season One spoilers: I wonder if the cult at the center of this season–and it's pretty clear by now that there will be one–is connected somehow to the sprawl of the Yellow King cult from Season One. There seem to be some commonalities: the animal masks that are clearly being used ritually and sexually, disappearing women, a politically connected dynastic family of awful people with some implied fucked-up interpersonal dynamics (Dr. Rick Springfield says that Chessani's first wife was institutionalized because she couldn't cope with "certain traditions of the Chessani patriarch... a highly inventive family" which reminded me of the Tuttle/Childress clan a bit. He also says that Mayor Chessani doesn't participate in the parties, but his wife said she met him at a party so...), possible ritual/murder sites scattered around the larger geographic region, the involvement of a US Senator (they say "state senator" in the dialogue, but it's clear from his briefly-glimpsed website that he's the "United States Senator from California"), and probably other stuff I'm missing right now.
ANYWAY. I'm probably way off base, but thought I'd throw down with that theory just in case.
posted by donatella at 8:47 AM on July 26, 2015
Semyon's running Ray for collections? Odd.
So it looks like Frank & the Mayor used Vinci toxic waste to devalue the land on the rail corridor,and buy it up cheap with front companies, in anticipation of the rail build-out.
Blake is running girls (through the poker room), backed by the Doctor. To Osip.
The song played over Ani's and Ray's meeting is the one used from the promos. And now Frank and
#ClassicsWatch
Nice change to the lyrics for this one.
Ray's lost the moustache, no longer the barbarian.
Michaelangelo!
Affluent men in the woods, the traditions of the Chessani patriarchs..
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:33 PM on July 26, 2015
So it looks like Frank & the Mayor used Vinci toxic waste to devalue the land on the rail corridor,and buy it up cheap with front companies, in anticipation of the rail build-out.
Blake is running girls (through the poker room), backed by the Doctor. To Osip.
The song played over Ani's and Ray's meeting is the one used from the promos. And now Frank and
#ClassicsWatch
Nice change to the lyrics for this one.
Ray's lost the moustache, no longer the barbarian.
Michaelangelo!
Affluent men in the woods, the traditions of the Chessani patriarchs..
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:33 PM on July 26, 2015
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Metafilter: It's like blueballs... in your heart.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:18 AM on July 20, 2015