Star Trek: Deep Space Nine: Profit And Loss   Rewatch 
August 30, 2015 2:02 PM - Season 2, Episode 18 - Subscribe

Some Cardassians arrive on the station and Quark catches up with an old friend.
posted by Solomon (22 comments total) 2 users marked this as a favorite
 
Quark in love!
posted by the man of twists and turns at 2:18 PM on August 30, 2015


I quite like this episode. Garak is in it, which always makes for an interesting show, but it's nice to get a little more backstory about Quark during The Occupation.

The plot is a little handwavey in some parts - Quark doesn't strike me as the type to fall in love with anyone, and that cloaking device seems rather small to be cloaking an entire ship. The writers needed some kind of hook, though.

I love the unravelled Slinky in Natima's hair. And the scene between Garak and Bashir is some fantastic foreshadowing. I wonder if the writers knew at that point what direction they were going in with Garak.
posted by Solomon at 2:34 PM on August 30, 2015


Quark doesn't strike me as the type to fall in love with anyone

Oh, he's a surprisingly romantic fellow. He was also in love with Jadzia, or at least he had a serious crush.

Armin Shimerman took Quark very seriously, and was always happy when Quark got to be a little more heroic. He compared Quark's role here to a Bogart character, and that kind of works. There's a lot of Casablanca in DS9. It's one of the less obvious influences, but it's definitely there. It's this exotic place with refugees and fascists and former war collaborators and terrorists and heroes and spies, all milling around in a big noisy marketplace, just barely getting along. The show has a very 1940s feel to it in some ways, and while Quark is generally played for comedy he's also a cynic with a heart of gold, kind of in the Bogie mold.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 6:21 PM on August 30, 2015 [7 favorites]


From Memory Alpha:
*During filming of "Profit and Loss," a 6.7 magnitude earthquake [1] struck Southern California, including the Paramount studios where Deep Space Nine was being produced. The earthquake struck on 17 January 1994 at 4:31 AM, when Armin Shimerman, Mary Crosby, and other actors requiring extensive makeup were having their makeup applied in preparation for crew call at 5 AM. Most of the actors in the makeup trailer ran to their cars and drove home to check on family members. However, they were still wearing their makeup, and as director Robert Wiemer points out, "It must have seemed like the bowels of the Earth had opened up and those creatures had come out." Armin Shimerman commented that he "scared the crap out of people" with his alien appearance. Following a two-day inspection of the studio for damage and structural safety, filming continued on 19 January – albeit, amidst a series of aftershocks. (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion)*

*Armin Shimerman and Mary Crosby's makeup had to be touched up each time the actors kissed, since his orange makeup would end up mixing with her gray makeup. (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion)*

Even aside from the makeup, those pointy Ferengi teeth must have been a challenge to kiss around.
posted by oh yeah! at 8:06 PM on August 30, 2015


He compared Quark's role here to a Bogart character, and that kind of works. There's a lot of Casablanca in DS9. It's one of the less obvious influences, but it's definitely there. It's this exotic place with refugees and fascists and former war collaborators and terrorists and heroes and spies, all milling around in a big noisy marketplace, just barely getting along.

Quark and Odo's relationship owes everything to Rick and Renault, for sure. Too bad Quark's bar never got an "As Time Goes By."
posted by thetortoise at 11:00 PM on August 30, 2015


Too bad Quark's bar never got an "As Time Goes By."

Well, Vic Fontaine gave us The Way You Look Tonight.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 1:35 AM on August 31, 2015


Quark wasn't in love with Jadzia until the plot demanded it. For a large portion of the time, he was way more interested in profit than sex, like a good little Ferengi.
posted by Solomon at 3:54 AM on August 31, 2015


#GarakWatch

He's definitely the representative of Cardassian interests on the station. Gul Toran's manipulation of Garak is what prompts the shooting, and I think tamps down his feelings about returning via loyal service.

Also, love the fashion talk.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 7:35 AM on August 31, 2015


They were threatened with a lawsuit for this episode:

The episode is very obviously patterned after the great 1942 film Casablanca, with Quark as Rick, Lang as Ilsa, Garak as Captain Renault, and Toran as Major Strasser. In fact, the original draft hewed even closer to the film, but it was toned down in subsequent drafts—including changing the title from “Here’s Looking at You…”—due to being threatened with legal action.

Source
posted by juiceCake at 8:45 AM on August 31, 2015 [1 favorite]


I loved this episode- I love the Casablanca-ness of it, I love the conversation in the tailor shop, and I love that Natima shuts down a rule of acquisition.


I also want to believe that Garak killed Gul Toran because he was being rude.

(yes, I may be in withdrawal)
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 4:06 PM on August 31, 2015


Quark wasn't in love with Jadzia until the plot demanded it. For a large portion of the time, he was way more interested in profit than sex, like a good little Ferengi.

Oh god, Quark is going to be in love with Jadzia? Do not want.
posted by oh yeah! at 6:01 PM on August 31, 2015


Oh god, Quark is going to be in love with Jadzia? Do not want.

If it makes you feel any better, this is pretty much always up to viewer interpretation. It's only really unambiguous in one episode [spoilermumble: which is all part of the worst decision the writers ever made anyway]
posted by thetortoise at 7:36 PM on August 31, 2015 [1 favorite]


Sorry, maybe we should have put a spoiler warning on that. But no, it's not a major part of the series at all. It's not even an ongoing plot. It's more like one scene where he admits he'd had feelings for her, and you can look back and it makes sense. He never tells Jadzia or anything.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 7:36 PM on August 31, 2015


Sorry, maybe we should have put a spoiler warning on that.

No, it's ok, I know it's a rewatch thread - spoiler warnings & the Recent Activity function aren't really compatible.

But no, it's not a major part of the series at all. It's not even an ongoing plot. It's more like one scene where he admits he'd had feelings for her, and you can look back and it makes sense. He never tells Jadzia or anything.

Ok then, I trust Shimerman can make that kind of scene work. I don't hate Jadzia, I just get a "there's no there there" feeling. Whereas I'm really loving Quark, and he's so good in scenes with other strong personalities (like Odo and Garak in this episode), I'd want any love story for him to be as compelling.
posted by oh yeah! at 4:45 AM on September 1, 2015


It's not that Quark loves Jadzia, and that's never a plot line. He just makes a bit of a show of going googly-eyed over her from time to time. The difference between Jadzia's and Kira's reactions to Quark is one of the bits of shorthand the writers used for showing us how very different these two women are.
posted by zadcat at 8:11 PM on September 1, 2015


Since Quark didn't give any outward signs of caring about his romance with Natima (he doesn't follow Cardassian politics with an eye towards whether she'll be able to return, for example), I don't care about the romance either.

The thing that interests me is whether Natima and her students made it back to Cardassia during the brief civilian government era, or if they remained in exile and survived. Nearly all of the important Cardassians we see in the course of the show end up dying, so it would be interesting to see if Natima & Co. would be around to help with the rebuilding process at the end of the series.
posted by creepygirl at 9:36 PM on September 1, 2015


Nearly all of the important Cardassians we see in the course of the show end up dying, so it would be interesting to see if Natima & Co. would be around to help with the rebuilding process at the end of the series.

I don't think it's a spoiler to say that, because this is pretty much a one-off episode, they don't come back in any form in the show. Natima DOES come back in the "expanded universe" literature.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 9:17 AM on September 2, 2015


Quark and Odo's relationship owes everything to Rick and Renault, for sure.

Except that the personality types are reversed. Quark is far more like Renault and Odo is much closer to Rick. You can picture Quark saying "I am shocked, *shocked*...", but never Odo.
posted by dry white toast at 9:36 PM on September 2, 2015


We were bothered by the fact that Odo let the prisoners go. I know he cares about justice but doesn't he have to keep his job?
posted by chaiminda at 5:30 AM on September 6, 2015


Perhaps the Bajoran government thought that letting three people go who could help destabilise Cardassia was a good thing?
posted by Solomon at 5:52 AM on September 6, 2015


Quark is far more like Renault and Odo is much closer to Rick. You can picture Quark saying "I am shocked, *shocked*...", but never Odo.

I don't know. Odo has a certain streak of amused, pragmatic cynicism. He looks at the bigger picture, allowing people to break the law if he considers the law unjust and tolerating relatively harmless criminality (like Quark's) because it allows him to keep tabs on the truly heinous crime happening around the low-grade stuff. I can see Odo feigning shock at illegal gambling on DS9, were gambling illegal there. Renault and Odo are both guys who have their own moral codes and their own ways of getting things done.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 5:57 PM on September 6, 2015


I'm on my first watch through, and one of the things Shimerman and the writers do really well with Quark is to show how, as a pretty competent Ferengi (inasmuch as the Ferengi have a monoculture with a shared goal and set of values towards reaching that goal) working mainly among other races, he always has his feet in both worlds. A nice touch to that is the more we see Quark like this, the more the way he acts when he's just around other Ferengi seems like reverting to juvenile behavior that doesn't reflect all of who he really is. Because Quark adapts as he deals with people. You can tell he genuinely likes Odo, gets a kick out of Bashir, wants to get on Kira's better side, etc.

And yes, you can tell that Jadzia is something special to him. She's allowed at the Tongo table when it's otherwise just Ferengi (which speaks doubly to how Quark must have talked the others into being cool with it, since she's a woman) and she's forthright in enjoying his company - something basically nobody else in the ensemble will admit to (maybe Bashir?)

So while I haven't gotten to the scene y'all are talking about, it doesn't surprise me in the least.
posted by Navelgazer at 8:20 PM on August 29, 2018


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