Fear the Walking Dead: The Good Man
October 4, 2015 7:13 PM - Season 1, Episode 6 - Subscribe
As civil unrest grows, and the dead take over, Travis and Madison try to devise ways to protect their families.
I am imagining that when Strand said of the zombies "don't worry, they're slow", that Simon Pegg was watching and pumped his fist in delight.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:35 PM on October 4, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:35 PM on October 4, 2015 [7 favorites]
Well, I guess there's where the budget went.
I imagine setting next season largely on a boat, maybe going ashore for fuel and supplies, will let them keep the F/X budget low, too.
Better than the other FTWD episodes.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:39 PM on October 4, 2015
I imagine setting next season largely on a boat, maybe going ashore for fuel and supplies, will let them keep the F/X budget low, too.
Better than the other FTWD episodes.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:39 PM on October 4, 2015
Hey, scenes with actual tension! Sets outside the cul-de-sac! Actual zombies in the zombie show! Also, not too surprisingly, no real payoff for the offscreen death of corporal asshole.
Strand was pretty much the singular highlight of the show. It was nice to see a straightforward character who doesn't spend his time whining and moping while doing the dumbest possible thing at every turn. I'd like a whole cast of people like that. I'd also like to see a somewhat successful group, or see society slowly dissolve, or the in between parts before everything goes to hell. The show didn't really provide any of that, and what it did provide was all so cliche and overdone. My God, the "tough moral choice" and the breakdown on the beach. Awful. I hope Strand makes it to China with druggy teen and leaves the rest of those dipshits to rot in California.
posted by codacorolla at 7:40 PM on October 4, 2015 [9 favorites]
Strand was pretty much the singular highlight of the show. It was nice to see a straightforward character who doesn't spend his time whining and moping while doing the dumbest possible thing at every turn. I'd like a whole cast of people like that. I'd also like to see a somewhat successful group, or see society slowly dissolve, or the in between parts before everything goes to hell. The show didn't really provide any of that, and what it did provide was all so cliche and overdone. My God, the "tough moral choice" and the breakdown on the beach. Awful. I hope Strand makes it to China with druggy teen and leaves the rest of those dipshits to rot in California.
posted by codacorolla at 7:40 PM on October 4, 2015 [9 favorites]
... yep, it's a spinoff of The Walking Dead all right: interesting stuff can only happen right around the beginning or end of a season, and the dumbest characters inevitably live to mess up another day.
The correct move here would've been to kill off Travis and keep Liza.
I hope Strand makes it to China with druggy teen and leaves the rest of those dipshits to rot in California.
No kidding. At least Nick showed a glimmer of heroism here, telling his mother to leave him behind. Strand was excellent as ever, and provides some reason to continue watching.
posted by mordax at 8:38 PM on October 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
The correct move here would've been to kill off Travis and keep Liza.
I hope Strand makes it to China with druggy teen and leaves the rest of those dipshits to rot in California.
No kidding. At least Nick showed a glimmer of heroism here, telling his mother to leave him behind. Strand was excellent as ever, and provides some reason to continue watching.
posted by mordax at 8:38 PM on October 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think the worst story beat in all of this is the fact that our group of idiot survivors released tens of thousands of walkers in their plan to infiltrate the military base, killing hundreds of people and creating that many hundreds more walkers, in an effort to save 2 people. Not only that, but they've also effectively doomed the people in their neighborhood. I know that the whole point of TWD is grim, gritty, misery porn, but that seems extreme, short sighted and stupid even for the show's universe.
posted by codacorolla at 9:14 PM on October 4, 2015 [17 favorites]
posted by codacorolla at 9:14 PM on October 4, 2015 [17 favorites]
This show has a much more political message than the Walking Dead does:
The government will lie to you, abduct your loved ones, and definitely won't be any help in a national emergency.
Don't cooperate with your neighbors, and don't trust immigrants lest they turn out to be fugitive torturers.
No matter if your actions endanger the rest of society - the end justifies the means.
Just hunker down with your family and your own weapons and trust absolutely no-one else!
It's almost as if the Koch brothers wrote the plot!
posted by monotreme at 9:57 PM on October 4, 2015 [9 favorites]
It's almost as if the Koch brothers wrote the plot!
posted by monotreme at 9:57 PM on October 4, 2015 [9 favorites]
I think the worst story beat in all of this is the fact that our group of idiot survivors released tens of thousands of walkers in their plan to infiltrate the military base, killing hundreds of people and creating that many hundreds more walkers, in an effort to save 2 people. Not only that, but they've also effectively doomed the people in their neighborhood. I know that the whole point of TWD is grim, gritty, misery porn, but that seems extreme, short sighted and stupid even for the show's universe.
For that matter the guards at the gate might've just let them in.
And there's no way Travis would have left the gate open. I assumed at first that's why he went last, so he could make sure it was closed, but nope. His whole character up through the confrontation in the garage was about trying to keep everybody alive. It's why he let the soldier go in the first place. It's why he made them open the cages in the quarantine.
I guess that family having dinner by the window and the guy walking his dog are gonna be pretty surprised in the morning. Not to mention Doug's wife and kids.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:50 PM on October 4, 2015 [7 favorites]
For that matter the guards at the gate might've just let them in.
And there's no way Travis would have left the gate open. I assumed at first that's why he went last, so he could make sure it was closed, but nope. His whole character up through the confrontation in the garage was about trying to keep everybody alive. It's why he let the soldier go in the first place. It's why he made them open the cages in the quarantine.
I guess that family having dinner by the window and the guy walking his dog are gonna be pretty surprised in the morning. Not to mention Doug's wife and kids.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:50 PM on October 4, 2015 [7 favorites]
This show has a much more political message than the Walking Dead does
I dunno. It's arguably less subtle about it, but it's the same basic message as The Walking Dead, (the show anyway - the comic supposed that humans would organize and work together as often as not):
* In the event of a major catastrophe, civilization will prove to be a thin and fragile fiction that shatters irreparably in no time at all. (In both shows, the fall of the U.S. is such a gimme that they don't even show it.)
* The only way to survive is to 'do whatever it takes.' (Seen a million times from Rick & Co., Madison & Daniel.)
* Sincerely helpful strangers are probably such moronic bleeding hearts that they won't even kill zombies. (Travis, Herschel.)
* Most helpful strangers are just scamming you. If you're lucky, they just want your stuff. If you're less lucky, they might cook and eat you. (The Termites. Maybe Strand - no way he wants them for anything more than cannon fodder.)
I will admit some guilt partaking in zombie fiction recreationally. A lot of it is really, really reactionary.
posted by mordax at 11:43 PM on October 4, 2015 [7 favorites]
I dunno. It's arguably less subtle about it, but it's the same basic message as The Walking Dead, (the show anyway - the comic supposed that humans would organize and work together as often as not):
* In the event of a major catastrophe, civilization will prove to be a thin and fragile fiction that shatters irreparably in no time at all. (In both shows, the fall of the U.S. is such a gimme that they don't even show it.)
* The only way to survive is to 'do whatever it takes.' (Seen a million times from Rick & Co., Madison & Daniel.)
* Sincerely helpful strangers are probably such moronic bleeding hearts that they won't even kill zombies. (Travis, Herschel.)
* Most helpful strangers are just scamming you. If you're lucky, they just want your stuff. If you're less lucky, they might cook and eat you. (The Termites. Maybe Strand - no way he wants them for anything more than cannon fodder.)
I will admit some guilt partaking in zombie fiction recreationally. A lot of it is really, really reactionary.
posted by mordax at 11:43 PM on October 4, 2015 [7 favorites]
Yeah, I don't watch TWD regularly, but all of the above was just so, so annoying about this season. It's like hanging out with a 13 year old kid who only wants to talk about how shitty the world is, and how stupid people are.
posted by codacorolla at 6:09 AM on October 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by codacorolla at 6:09 AM on October 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
I think the genre really requires that people be stupid, frankly. The enemy is a mindless, slow, poorly armed creature that honestly should be no threat at all I'd people cooperated. So humanity has to be more stupid than that, and cooperation has to be turned into a liability.
posted by happyroach at 7:31 AM on October 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by happyroach at 7:31 AM on October 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
I have nothing much to add, other than I'm definitely not watching any of the Walkind Dead franchise and that I'm kinda done with the genre. It needs something new, something beyond people being stupid and horrible to each other.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:32 AM on October 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:32 AM on October 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
That said, I did like the characters of Madison, Tobias, Daniel and Strand. Everyone else was pretty meh. Plus, the implication that they'd hang out on the boat to avoid zombies struck me as startling smart and different. But it's not enough to draw me back. Perhaps if there had been more Strand from the beginning? And Madison dumped Travis for him? And they picked up Tobias? Yeah, that I'm digging.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:46 AM on October 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:46 AM on October 5, 2015 [4 favorites]
I didn't realize until this episode of Talking Dead that Cliff Curtis is a New Zealander of Maori descent, and didn't realize until googling articles that his character Travis Manawa is also supposed to be Maori, not Latino (though the part was originally written for a Latino.)
posted by larrybob at 8:34 AM on October 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by larrybob at 8:34 AM on October 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Something new would be an adaptation of Mike Carey's The Girl With All the Gifts (NPR review) or Mira Grant's Newsflesh series (though I admit to not finishing it, as the second book was really hackneyed and its conceit was poorly executed). There are some fresh ideas about Zs touched upon there, though, particularly in regard to how humanity would adapt to high-security living after suppressing the initial threat.
Honestly, I enjoyed this ep more than the previous ones, but totally agree that Travis massively breaking character after nearly beating Adams to death in the parking garage seemed... I don't know, wrong. As though the show's moral compass had encountered a horde-shaped magnet and stopped working altogether.
Strand's house was not only gorgeous, but it seemed easily fortified based on its oceanfront location and the home's general layout. I realize the massive windows were a bug and not a feature for surviving Z Day, but it wouldn't take long to put up a wall over the vulnerable areas, provided you had adequate materials and tools on hand. Guessing he's got a pretty sweet closed-circuit security setup there as well.
Though if they're going to bomb LA, you might want to get far enough away to avoid any fallout. Hence the boat. But if he hadn't already booked it out there before lockup, Strand has no way of knowing if one of his friends or employees already thought of that -- Abigail may be currently hosting some squatters.
Poor Ofelia! Her mother died, her boyfriend got beaten to a bloody pulp by the show's resident pacifist and then dude SHOT HER trying to kill Papa Slytherin Salazar. Damn, here's hoping she doesn't die on the boat, turn and kill everyone. Though it's probably going to happen, since that was the laziest possible outcome.
I've started thinking of Chris as "Carlos," since he's rapidly becoming Korl Junior. Neither one of them will stay wherever they're told -- not the car or the house -- because adults are stupid, especially Dad.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 9:43 AM on October 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Honestly, I enjoyed this ep more than the previous ones, but totally agree that Travis massively breaking character after nearly beating Adams to death in the parking garage seemed... I don't know, wrong. As though the show's moral compass had encountered a horde-shaped magnet and stopped working altogether.
Strand's house was not only gorgeous, but it seemed easily fortified based on its oceanfront location and the home's general layout. I realize the massive windows were a bug and not a feature for surviving Z Day, but it wouldn't take long to put up a wall over the vulnerable areas, provided you had adequate materials and tools on hand. Guessing he's got a pretty sweet closed-circuit security setup there as well.
Though if they're going to bomb LA, you might want to get far enough away to avoid any fallout. Hence the boat. But if he hadn't already booked it out there before lockup, Strand has no way of knowing if one of his friends or employees already thought of that -- Abigail may be currently hosting some squatters.
Poor Ofelia! Her mother died, her boyfriend got beaten to a bloody pulp by the show's resident pacifist and then dude SHOT HER trying to kill Papa Slytherin Salazar. Damn, here's hoping she doesn't die on the boat, turn and kill everyone. Though it's probably going to happen, since that was the laziest possible outcome.
I've started thinking of Chris as "Carlos," since he's rapidly becoming Korl Junior. Neither one of them will stay wherever they're told -- not the car or the house -- because adults are stupid, especially Dad.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 9:43 AM on October 5, 2015 [2 favorites]
Maybe they'll reconsider and put this on the web next year, and fill the spot with pretty much anything else. I see they put up some web series about Walking Dead on a Plane following this finale. They really need to just move it all there.
I loved how on Talking Dead they were doing the In Memoriam sequence that they do, and it was like Random 'Viral' walker, black guy human, black guy human's walker, some other random walker, black guy walker, group of random walkers, black guy walker. And even then, they didn't put up the other black guy that died (whats-her-face's boyfriend with the parents out of town in Vegas) just because he didn't die on screen. I mean how bad is that?
This show was so lacking in things The Walking Dead does well. The suspense was severely lacking. There was almost none of it. There were maybe 3 moments in 6 episodes. They tried to create another iconic shot several times with scenes of L.A.. The one where all the cars were on the freeway and they were driving through the aqueduct or flood control channel was neat, but it wasn't believable that not a single other person thought to go that way, or got in, and was around.
As other people said, they let out all those walkers and probably got people killed, and not only did that happen, but the show didn't have the characters fight over that decision, or have any kind of feelings about it. These people are just way too numb, way too quick. They haven't wondered about family elsewhere, haven't wondered what the president is doing, what the news is reporting, what other countries might be doing, what things must look like to the outside world. It's just a sloppy addition to this franchise.
posted by cashman at 10:19 AM on October 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
I loved how on Talking Dead they were doing the In Memoriam sequence that they do, and it was like Random 'Viral' walker, black guy human, black guy human's walker, some other random walker, black guy walker, group of random walkers, black guy walker. And even then, they didn't put up the other black guy that died (whats-her-face's boyfriend with the parents out of town in Vegas) just because he didn't die on screen. I mean how bad is that?
This show was so lacking in things The Walking Dead does well. The suspense was severely lacking. There was almost none of it. There were maybe 3 moments in 6 episodes. They tried to create another iconic shot several times with scenes of L.A.. The one where all the cars were on the freeway and they were driving through the aqueduct or flood control channel was neat, but it wasn't believable that not a single other person thought to go that way, or got in, and was around.
As other people said, they let out all those walkers and probably got people killed, and not only did that happen, but the show didn't have the characters fight over that decision, or have any kind of feelings about it. These people are just way too numb, way too quick. They haven't wondered about family elsewhere, haven't wondered what the president is doing, what the news is reporting, what other countries might be doing, what things must look like to the outside world. It's just a sloppy addition to this franchise.
posted by cashman at 10:19 AM on October 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
I think the genre really requires that people be stupid, frankly.
It depends on what kind of story is being told. If the goal of a story is to just kind of explore 'how would people deal with a zombie plague,' I think there's still a lot of rich ground for stories remaining. Like, the story Unicorn on the cob mentioned above seems like a potentially interesting notion. The comic version of The Walking Dead plays with this too: while they still encounter a number of bad groups, they also do eventually encounter and join walled enclaves that engage in trade and are slowly rebuilding technology. I eventually stopped reading anyway, but I felt like that was broadly plausible.
The setup on the entire TV franchise of The Walking Dead does require that people be stupid though, because it's trying to sell a bunch of awful bullshit about how civilization is a nicety, and at the end of the day someone has to make 'hard decisions,' especially with regard to guns and torture. It's a dumb premise that ignores that organization and trade are the norm in human history, while anarchic pockets of raiders are temporary situations.
I really don't think it had to be though, I think it's about laziness and a poor understanding of what makes people tick in general. (It's the same sort of laziness that generally creates drama by having characters not share simple, obvious information.)
As other people said, they let out all those walkers and probably got people killed, and not only did that happen, but the show didn't have the characters fight over that decision, or have any kind of feelings about it.
The only nod they had to it was Ofelia saying, "None of them helped us when they took my mom," or something to that effect, which was kinda worse, because that throwaway line acknowledged that the writers knew this was problematic and just didn't care.
posted by mordax at 12:53 PM on October 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
It depends on what kind of story is being told. If the goal of a story is to just kind of explore 'how would people deal with a zombie plague,' I think there's still a lot of rich ground for stories remaining. Like, the story Unicorn on the cob mentioned above seems like a potentially interesting notion. The comic version of The Walking Dead plays with this too: while they still encounter a number of bad groups, they also do eventually encounter and join walled enclaves that engage in trade and are slowly rebuilding technology. I eventually stopped reading anyway, but I felt like that was broadly plausible.
The setup on the entire TV franchise of The Walking Dead does require that people be stupid though, because it's trying to sell a bunch of awful bullshit about how civilization is a nicety, and at the end of the day someone has to make 'hard decisions,' especially with regard to guns and torture. It's a dumb premise that ignores that organization and trade are the norm in human history, while anarchic pockets of raiders are temporary situations.
I really don't think it had to be though, I think it's about laziness and a poor understanding of what makes people tick in general. (It's the same sort of laziness that generally creates drama by having characters not share simple, obvious information.)
As other people said, they let out all those walkers and probably got people killed, and not only did that happen, but the show didn't have the characters fight over that decision, or have any kind of feelings about it.
The only nod they had to it was Ofelia saying, "None of them helped us when they took my mom," or something to that effect, which was kinda worse, because that throwaway line acknowledged that the writers knew this was problematic and just didn't care.
posted by mordax at 12:53 PM on October 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
I think the worst story beat in all of this is the fact that our group of idiot survivors released tens of thousands of walkers in their plan to infiltrate the military base, killing hundreds of people and creating that many hundreds more walkers, in an effort to save 2 people. Not only that, but they've also effectively doomed the people in their neighborhood. I know that the whole point of TWD is grim, gritty, misery porn, but that seems extreme, short sighted and stupid even for the show's universe.
Not to mention our band of idiots being logistically able to release thousands (I think it was two of thousands, not tens, but still!) of walkers, lead them exactly where they wanted them to go, and time it all perfectly so that the walkers kept a barely-safe distance behind the casually strolling Salazar without anyone getting chomped. Those are some serious walker-wrangling skills for a handful of Everymen and Everywomen on, what, Day 10 of the apocalypse?
Contrast this to the introduction of Michonne in TWD, where her character is revealed to be a complete badass for (among other things) having two leashed zombies as pets. One of my biggest issues about TWD, a show I generally like, is that over time the zombies became less and less menacing, to the point that you have scenes with a character flat on his back and a zombie on top of him just biting the air until someone comes to his aid. Now we are not two weeks into the outbreak on FtWD and we have half a dozen clueless people successfully deploying thousands of walkers as weapons. Where is the fear again? I get it, "the walking dead" refers to the living, not the undead, but it's still a zombie show, and the zombies need to be a palpable threat.
posted by mama casserole at 5:40 PM on October 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
Not to mention our band of idiots being logistically able to release thousands (I think it was two of thousands, not tens, but still!) of walkers, lead them exactly where they wanted them to go, and time it all perfectly so that the walkers kept a barely-safe distance behind the casually strolling Salazar without anyone getting chomped. Those are some serious walker-wrangling skills for a handful of Everymen and Everywomen on, what, Day 10 of the apocalypse?
Contrast this to the introduction of Michonne in TWD, where her character is revealed to be a complete badass for (among other things) having two leashed zombies as pets. One of my biggest issues about TWD, a show I generally like, is that over time the zombies became less and less menacing, to the point that you have scenes with a character flat on his back and a zombie on top of him just biting the air until someone comes to his aid. Now we are not two weeks into the outbreak on FtWD and we have half a dozen clueless people successfully deploying thousands of walkers as weapons. Where is the fear again? I get it, "the walking dead" refers to the living, not the undead, but it's still a zombie show, and the zombies need to be a palpable threat.
posted by mama casserole at 5:40 PM on October 5, 2015 [6 favorites]
when I think of the narrative types that Vonnegut describes (find/lose the boy/girl, New Testament Fall and Redemption, etc) the only one that really seems to fit is from bad to worse, a la a Twilight Zone episode. I don't see what hero's journey the writers are defining. Is it a heroic thing to shoot your doomed ex-wife to save your son from -- wait, how was it better to let his son find his dead mother on the beach then to have a moment to say goodbye to her?
So basically the show wants us to feel, oh, how tragic poor Travis, he tries to do the right thing, and finally the right thing is to shoot his very nice ex-wife and mother of his child. Except--it's not necessarily the right thing to do.
And then at the end it's like AND HERE IS THAT FAMOUS MOVIE IMAGE only with grief instead of passion. Oh, well done sirs, y'all are real fucking deep.
And what are we supposed to do when an eaten-alive character sez 'kill me' and Strang or Strand is all, 'Have fun dying horribly.' Laugh at his sly repartee?
I remember two moments when I liked TWD w/o any reservation: When Herschel saved a bunch of people from the flu with his berries, and when Carol kicked some cannibal ass. Because those were pretty heroic moments.
Who are the heroes here?
Also, could there be any worse time to be trapped with a self-obsessed junkie? Who cares what he is feeling, about how the world has caught up with his junkie ass and now he enjoys sticking his head out of the car like a dog.
posted by angrycat at 5:43 PM on October 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
So basically the show wants us to feel, oh, how tragic poor Travis, he tries to do the right thing, and finally the right thing is to shoot his very nice ex-wife and mother of his child. Except--it's not necessarily the right thing to do.
And then at the end it's like AND HERE IS THAT FAMOUS MOVIE IMAGE only with grief instead of passion. Oh, well done sirs, y'all are real fucking deep.
And what are we supposed to do when an eaten-alive character sez 'kill me' and Strang or Strand is all, 'Have fun dying horribly.' Laugh at his sly repartee?
I remember two moments when I liked TWD w/o any reservation: When Herschel saved a bunch of people from the flu with his berries, and when Carol kicked some cannibal ass. Because those were pretty heroic moments.
Who are the heroes here?
Also, could there be any worse time to be trapped with a self-obsessed junkie? Who cares what he is feeling, about how the world has caught up with his junkie ass and now he enjoys sticking his head out of the car like a dog.
posted by angrycat at 5:43 PM on October 5, 2015 [7 favorites]
I've spent some time at Sunken City in San Pedro (where the final scene takes place), and I'm having a hard time believing that a house as nice as Strand's is anywhere within walking distance of there.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 8:25 PM on October 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Parasite Unseen at 8:25 PM on October 5, 2015 [3 favorites]
Yeah, I kept thinking how is it that Travis's conscience demands that he lets the army kid go but he's fine with leading a zombie horde into a facility with hundreds of people as part of his plan to rescue two of them.
It's this kind of thing that I just can't forgive either TWD or FTWD for. Not only do both shows have people doing things that actually make no practical sense, they also have people doing things that make no sense for their personalities. In all cases, the audience is expected to just accept it on the basis of that very moment's plot requirements.
A whole bunch of bad screenwriting works this way -- it's the refridgerator moment thing. And I suppose that different people have different thresholds for when their suspension of disbelief fails and even shows like these two are tolerable. But it makes me genuinely angry, the way that just half-assed lazy shoddy workmanship makes me angry. Because as a writer you can give a shit. You can write stories where the plot makes sense, where the people act like people, where it's not just all contrived bullshit. And you can do this within genre, it's not just the province of a naturalism. It's just good writing. Indeed, I tend to think that it's even more important in genre, where there's the constraint of some non-realist aspects and therefore you need verisimilitude elsewhere to buttress the whole structure. And one of the main conceits of both TWD and FTWD is about human psychology under duress -- so for fuck's sake, doesn't that merit that you actually work hard at making the characters' psychology believable?
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 3:35 AM on October 6, 2015 [11 favorites]
It's this kind of thing that I just can't forgive either TWD or FTWD for. Not only do both shows have people doing things that actually make no practical sense, they also have people doing things that make no sense for their personalities. In all cases, the audience is expected to just accept it on the basis of that very moment's plot requirements.
A whole bunch of bad screenwriting works this way -- it's the refridgerator moment thing. And I suppose that different people have different thresholds for when their suspension of disbelief fails and even shows like these two are tolerable. But it makes me genuinely angry, the way that just half-assed lazy shoddy workmanship makes me angry. Because as a writer you can give a shit. You can write stories where the plot makes sense, where the people act like people, where it's not just all contrived bullshit. And you can do this within genre, it's not just the province of a naturalism. It's just good writing. Indeed, I tend to think that it's even more important in genre, where there's the constraint of some non-realist aspects and therefore you need verisimilitude elsewhere to buttress the whole structure. And one of the main conceits of both TWD and FTWD is about human psychology under duress -- so for fuck's sake, doesn't that merit that you actually work hard at making the characters' psychology believable?
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 3:35 AM on October 6, 2015 [11 favorites]
This show may have plenty of faults but man, I love that opening. Whoever picked that was really good. Much better than TWD, whose opening isn't bad but doesn't have the terror that the FtWD opening has.
posted by LizBoBiz at 10:27 AM on October 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by LizBoBiz at 10:27 AM on October 6, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think the worst story beat in all of this is the fact that our group of idiot survivors released tens of thousands of walkers in their plan to infiltrate the military base, killing hundreds of people and creating that many hundreds more walkers, in an effort to save 2 people. Not only that, but they've also effectively doomed the people in their neighborhood. I know that the whole point of TWD is grim, gritty, misery porn, but that seems extreme, short sighted and stupid even for the show's universe.
I'm with Ivan on this one - for me, this action only seems strange for Travis. Salizar was expecting the worst from the beginning, when the army rolled up (he saw them and said "It's already too late"), and will do whatever he can to keep his family safe. No one else seems particularly attached to other humans - Ofelia pretty much said "fuck 'em" when they rolled out of the community, referring back to how none of them stood up to the army dudes (who had guns and gear, which the neighbors did not) took her mother away, and Madison has always been about her family over all others. So it was Travis, who wasn't the strong leader that Rick is/was, but he's more of a Herschel, the pacifist who tries to make others more like him.
But he changed in this episode. First, I wouldn't say leaving the electric gates open was a bad thing - sure, zombies can wander in, but if there's a hoard of them, the chain link around the perimeter won't hold (and there is at least one hole in it already - thanks, Maddy). So it could actually make leaving the compound easier, even if overrun by zombies, for the main gates to be open, because it's easier to drive through/over zombies if you're traveling on the paved road, versus trying to drive offroad, over zombies AND a chain link fence.
Second, they're going to try and rescue people from the army, who everyone knows is killing living people as a rash act of trying to maintain control and save their own asses. Madison saw this when she wandered in the neighborhoods beyond the fence, and she told Travis. And Travis knows that the military is pulling back to save their own skins, so he has lost his respect for them.
Travis was "the good man," but he realized what kind of world they were in when Andy, who supposedly had a thing for Ofelia, tracked them down, then shot her to hurt her father. Andy, why the hell did you go to all this trouble? I mean, besides moving Travis' story along and making him cast aside his "cause no harm" ideals.
Back to releasing the zombie hoard: they weren't going to sneak into the army medical "maze" while it was fully staffed and protected, so they needed a major distraction. The only "good" thing to do with a stadium full of zombies is to get the army to bomb the hell out of it, with a perimeter around to make sure that none get out, but that requires the army to care about the people in the area, which they don't (see: Operation Cobalt - save our own skins and leave the civvies to save themselves).
Post zombie apocalypse, there's no way that things are holding together. Communications go down, infrastructure fails, and it's Might Makes Right, even when there's some aspect of military cohesion and control. And that's gone (random army guy said "There's no superiors left, man" when another army guy says "So they're [the superiors] saying Edwards"). Army guys are bugging out, stealing vehicles and trying to take young ladies with them. The zombie hoard only highlighted how doomed the situation really was, and accelerated the time-table for this base to fail.
Zombie shows and movies generally aren't about heroes and villains, but showing how everyone is weak and broken in some way, how those flaws come out under pressure, and how people band together (or turn on each other) when faced with an unthinking, ustoppable foe (who also represents mortality, and/or a number of other themes). I'm not saying Fear the Walking Dead was great, but it fits into the realm of zombie stories. On the spectrum of such stories, I'd place this above the middle mark between great and terrible.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:21 AM on October 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm with Ivan on this one - for me, this action only seems strange for Travis. Salizar was expecting the worst from the beginning, when the army rolled up (he saw them and said "It's already too late"), and will do whatever he can to keep his family safe. No one else seems particularly attached to other humans - Ofelia pretty much said "fuck 'em" when they rolled out of the community, referring back to how none of them stood up to the army dudes (who had guns and gear, which the neighbors did not) took her mother away, and Madison has always been about her family over all others. So it was Travis, who wasn't the strong leader that Rick is/was, but he's more of a Herschel, the pacifist who tries to make others more like him.
But he changed in this episode. First, I wouldn't say leaving the electric gates open was a bad thing - sure, zombies can wander in, but if there's a hoard of them, the chain link around the perimeter won't hold (and there is at least one hole in it already - thanks, Maddy). So it could actually make leaving the compound easier, even if overrun by zombies, for the main gates to be open, because it's easier to drive through/over zombies if you're traveling on the paved road, versus trying to drive offroad, over zombies AND a chain link fence.
Second, they're going to try and rescue people from the army, who everyone knows is killing living people as a rash act of trying to maintain control and save their own asses. Madison saw this when she wandered in the neighborhoods beyond the fence, and she told Travis. And Travis knows that the military is pulling back to save their own skins, so he has lost his respect for them.
Travis was "the good man," but he realized what kind of world they were in when Andy, who supposedly had a thing for Ofelia, tracked them down, then shot her to hurt her father. Andy, why the hell did you go to all this trouble? I mean, besides moving Travis' story along and making him cast aside his "cause no harm" ideals.
Back to releasing the zombie hoard: they weren't going to sneak into the army medical "maze" while it was fully staffed and protected, so they needed a major distraction. The only "good" thing to do with a stadium full of zombies is to get the army to bomb the hell out of it, with a perimeter around to make sure that none get out, but that requires the army to care about the people in the area, which they don't (see: Operation Cobalt - save our own skins and leave the civvies to save themselves).
Post zombie apocalypse, there's no way that things are holding together. Communications go down, infrastructure fails, and it's Might Makes Right, even when there's some aspect of military cohesion and control. And that's gone (random army guy said "There's no superiors left, man" when another army guy says "So they're [the superiors] saying Edwards"). Army guys are bugging out, stealing vehicles and trying to take young ladies with them. The zombie hoard only highlighted how doomed the situation really was, and accelerated the time-table for this base to fail.
Zombie shows and movies generally aren't about heroes and villains, but showing how everyone is weak and broken in some way, how those flaws come out under pressure, and how people band together (or turn on each other) when faced with an unthinking, ustoppable foe (who also represents mortality, and/or a number of other themes). I'm not saying Fear the Walking Dead was great, but it fits into the realm of zombie stories. On the spectrum of such stories, I'd place this above the middle mark between great and terrible.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:21 AM on October 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
They didn't earn any of that, though. We saw the characters for about a week. That's just a shade more believable than a love affair playing out in the course of a day on Wet Hot American Summer, except this doesn't have the benefit of being a satire.
posted by codacorolla at 3:30 PM on October 7, 2015
posted by codacorolla at 3:30 PM on October 7, 2015
Yeah I can't give them the benefit of the doubt either. It's definitely not treading water plotwise. They should have gotten some writers who could look at it fresh, because they missed portraying things that would happen in the wake of what these people are, according to the producer, treating this like an outbreak. They don't have any real proof of exactly how it spreads, or how contagious it is. Strand was emptying the guy's pockets to get his cufflinks back and take the guy's gun, while a walker was eating on him. I mean really.
Not that The Walking Dead itself doesn't have a bunch of holes, but that was well done and this just is not. But it did make me appreciate TWD coming back this Sunday. While I normally would be thinking about how I don't really care about the current storyline and these new people they're hanging around, and how it all seems like a pointless storyline, now I just want to see the TWD cast doing things.
Oh and since there probably won't be a Talking Dead post for last week, note that the showrunner talked about Madison having a southern accent, and Hardwick jumped at the chance to suppose she is somehow associated with Rick or the Grimes family.
posted by cashman at 8:47 PM on October 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
Not that The Walking Dead itself doesn't have a bunch of holes, but that was well done and this just is not. But it did make me appreciate TWD coming back this Sunday. While I normally would be thinking about how I don't really care about the current storyline and these new people they're hanging around, and how it all seems like a pointless storyline, now I just want to see the TWD cast doing things.
Oh and since there probably won't be a Talking Dead post for last week, note that the showrunner talked about Madison having a southern accent, and Hardwick jumped at the chance to suppose she is somehow associated with Rick or the Grimes family.
posted by cashman at 8:47 PM on October 7, 2015 [2 favorites]
They didn't earn any of that, though. We saw the characters for about a week.
True - I chalk this up to people behind FtWD trying to speed the show up to a level that can compete with the current stage of TWD.
Oh and since there probably won't be a Talking Dead post for last week, note that the showrunner talked about Madison having a southern accent, and Hardwick jumped at the chance to suppose she is somehow associated with Rick or the Grimes family.
I look forward to the cross-over episode where "Aunt Maddie" shows up, and everyone is excited to see that relative they had never mentioned before. (Sure, it's been however long in z-landia, but if you wanted to do anything to tie the stories together, at least mention the cross-over character before she or he shows up. I'm just saying'.)
posted by filthy light thief at 11:22 AM on October 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
True - I chalk this up to people behind FtWD trying to speed the show up to a level that can compete with the current stage of TWD.
Oh and since there probably won't be a Talking Dead post for last week, note that the showrunner talked about Madison having a southern accent, and Hardwick jumped at the chance to suppose she is somehow associated with Rick or the Grimes family.
I look forward to the cross-over episode where "Aunt Maddie" shows up, and everyone is excited to see that relative they had never mentioned before. (Sure, it's been however long in z-landia, but if you wanted to do anything to tie the stories together, at least mention the cross-over character before she or he shows up. I'm just saying'.)
posted by filthy light thief at 11:22 AM on October 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
True - I chalk this up to people behind FtWD trying to speed the show up to a level that can compete with the current stage of TWD.
Yeah, but that's exactly the point, why do that? If you have a show where the whole premise is "life during the zombie apocalypse instead of after", then why speed up to the point where it's essentially the same thing as your east coast show, only with a different, less likable, less believable cast of characters? I would imagine it's budgetary, and also just a lack of talent or imagination on the part of the writers.
posted by codacorolla at 2:25 PM on October 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
Yeah, but that's exactly the point, why do that? If you have a show where the whole premise is "life during the zombie apocalypse instead of after", then why speed up to the point where it's essentially the same thing as your east coast show, only with a different, less likable, less believable cast of characters? I would imagine it's budgetary, and also just a lack of talent or imagination on the part of the writers.
posted by codacorolla at 2:25 PM on October 8, 2015 [5 favorites]
Man I just realized the actor who plays Maddie was the madam in Deadwood. I'm glad to see her again
posted by angrycat at 9:18 AM on October 9, 2015
posted by angrycat at 9:18 AM on October 9, 2015
I finally got caught up with the last three episodes last night. It's getting better. But it's still pretty bland.
People continue to act in arbitrary ways that service the plot, not in ways that make sense for their character and motivations.
Strand is indeed the most flavorful character we've had so far. Watching him chew the scenery is fun, although I do get tired of these one-dimensional, over-the-top comic-book villains. But I guess it's not fair to complain about that in a show that's actually based on a comic book.
In general, characters seem to be conceived first and foremost as devices to drive conflict, rather than complex and believable (or even consistent) personalities. Having seen the original show, I'm not surprised by that—but I am disappointed. (If anything, it's worse in this show than it was in the original.)
For example, the dickish army guy is such a tired trope. You don't need to pepper your story with sociopaths to create compelling drama. In fact, it would be way more interesting to see a military who are, for the most part, doing their best in an incredibly unorthodox and trying situation, and struggling as much as the civilians to process and respond to the collapse that's happening around them. There's still plenty of room for conflict and drama there.
I mean, I guess what I'm asking for is moral ambiguity, though not in the EdgyGrimDark way that the term is often used. Life doesn't have Bad Guys and Good Guys. It has people whose needs and interests are sometimes aligned and sometimes opposed (and sometimes both), who have imperfections and biases and personality flaws, who sometimes make poor judgements, or have to make tough decisions with incomplete information, or have difficulty communicating, or mistrust each other, or struggle to find a path amidst various allegiances/obligations/principles/threats/pressures. That's how you create compelling drama, IMHO. Sometimes people are just genuine superdicks, sure—but superdicks are, like, TWD's only trick for creating conflict.
So, we get: here's the army; look what superdicks the army are; oh look now the army got fucked up by zombies.
100% agreed that skipping nine freakin' days of the apocalypse was a baffling choice. The show we were sold is not the one we got.
Everyone should be way more emotional and concerned than they are.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 12:59 PM on October 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
People continue to act in arbitrary ways that service the plot, not in ways that make sense for their character and motivations.
Strand is indeed the most flavorful character we've had so far. Watching him chew the scenery is fun, although I do get tired of these one-dimensional, over-the-top comic-book villains. But I guess it's not fair to complain about that in a show that's actually based on a comic book.
In general, characters seem to be conceived first and foremost as devices to drive conflict, rather than complex and believable (or even consistent) personalities. Having seen the original show, I'm not surprised by that—but I am disappointed. (If anything, it's worse in this show than it was in the original.)
For example, the dickish army guy is such a tired trope. You don't need to pepper your story with sociopaths to create compelling drama. In fact, it would be way more interesting to see a military who are, for the most part, doing their best in an incredibly unorthodox and trying situation, and struggling as much as the civilians to process and respond to the collapse that's happening around them. There's still plenty of room for conflict and drama there.
I mean, I guess what I'm asking for is moral ambiguity, though not in the EdgyGrimDark way that the term is often used. Life doesn't have Bad Guys and Good Guys. It has people whose needs and interests are sometimes aligned and sometimes opposed (and sometimes both), who have imperfections and biases and personality flaws, who sometimes make poor judgements, or have to make tough decisions with incomplete information, or have difficulty communicating, or mistrust each other, or struggle to find a path amidst various allegiances/obligations/principles/threats/pressures. That's how you create compelling drama, IMHO. Sometimes people are just genuine superdicks, sure—but superdicks are, like, TWD's only trick for creating conflict.
So, we get: here's the army; look what superdicks the army are; oh look now the army got fucked up by zombies.
100% agreed that skipping nine freakin' days of the apocalypse was a baffling choice. The show we were sold is not the one we got.
Everyone should be way more emotional and concerned than they are.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 12:59 PM on October 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
Oh, and at first I was like "how is this junkie kid of any use to Strand?", but then I realized it could actually play out nicely, narrative-wise. Strand is an opportunist who is taking advantage of the situation to position himself as a charismatic strongman. If he has access to opiates, then he can turn Nick into an eager-to-please gofer, which is a useful thing for a charismatic strongman to have. The Clark-Manawas need Strand for his boat and stockpiled resources, but they're not gonna be happy that he's feeding Nick's addiction. Tada—exactly the sort of complex conflict that's been missing so far.
I mean, this could be done in a completely hamfisted way, too. But it could be one thread (or strand, if you will) of a satisfying arc.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 1:17 PM on October 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
I mean, this could be done in a completely hamfisted way, too. But it could be one thread (or strand, if you will) of a satisfying arc.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 1:17 PM on October 9, 2015 [3 favorites]
More Strand please! Seriously, this needed to become The Strand Show much sooner. I also wanted to know exactly how someone of Strand's uber clever ways and means ever ended up in military custody in the first place. The only thing I can conclude is that the holding cell is precisely where the man wanted to be at that time because: strategy.
posted by hush at 5:28 PM on October 12, 2015
posted by hush at 5:28 PM on October 12, 2015
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In general I liked this season, but I feel like it rapidly became walking dead, west coast edition. I wanted them to take more time, even from the perspective of the family, figuring out what was going on.
posted by mbd1mbd1 at 7:33 PM on October 4, 2015 [1 favorite]