Orphan Black: Governed as It Were by Chance
May 11, 2014 10:55 AM - Season 2, Episode 4 - Subscribe
Sarah investigates Mrs. S's mysterious past while Cosima investigates the mysterious photograph, and Alison and Helena each awaken to find themselves under someone else's control.
One of the oddest things in this episode was the way Art just stood there and watched Helena run by but didn't try to follow her. WTF?
posted by homunculus at 11:04 AM on May 11, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 11:04 AM on May 11, 2014 [4 favorites]
Follow Helena who's running with a knife?
He's more interested in the Proletheans anyway.
posted by floatboth at 11:12 AM on May 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
He's more interested in the Proletheans anyway.
posted by floatboth at 11:12 AM on May 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
Which uterus will carry the pregnancy to term?
posted by travelwithcats at 11:42 AM on May 11, 2014
posted by travelwithcats at 11:42 AM on May 11, 2014
He's more interested in the Proletheans anyway.
True.
posted by homunculus at 12:29 PM on May 11, 2014
True.
posted by homunculus at 12:29 PM on May 11, 2014
Was it just me or did Cal Naharis seem to recognize the Dyad Institute's name?
posted by homunculus at 12:29 PM on May 11, 2014 [9 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 12:29 PM on May 11, 2014 [9 favorites]
I just assumed Dyad was a big enough name that someone with Cal's background would recognize it. On the other hand, yes, it did seem like they were hinting that Cal knows more that what he's letting on.
posted by plastic_animals at 12:33 PM on May 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by plastic_animals at 12:33 PM on May 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
Yeah, the camera lingered on Cal's face a little too long for it to not be something. Plus, he seemed more interested in the name than I'd have expected.
posted by Maecenas at 1:03 PM on May 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Maecenas at 1:03 PM on May 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
Cal is a little too perfect, isn't he? And I was bummed that we got Exposition Scrapbook Theater about Project Leda. It's one of my least favorite writing shortcuts in fiction -- especially when it's, you know, incriminating evidence that no one in their right mind would clip out of newspapers and keep in their home.
BUT HOLY SHIT HELENA. She may be overtaking Alison as my favorite. She's so compelling. That shower scene at the end was great. Tatiana Maslany is freaking incredible.
posted by tzikeh at 1:09 PM on May 11, 2014 [7 favorites]
BUT HOLY SHIT HELENA. She may be overtaking Alison as my favorite. She's so compelling. That shower scene at the end was great. Tatiana Maslany is freaking incredible.
posted by tzikeh at 1:09 PM on May 11, 2014 [7 favorites]
Has it ever been mentioned how old the clones are? Or how old Sarah was when she was handed over to Shioban?
In my head I've made them to be in their 30s. I think it's because the date on that Leda photograph, but I've realized that of course there could be years between that photo and the births. Also, Maslany herself was born in 1985.
posted by bjrn at 2:17 PM on May 11, 2014
In my head I've made them to be in their 30s. I think it's because the date on that Leda photograph, but I've realized that of course there could be years between that photo and the births. Also, Maslany herself was born in 1985.
posted by bjrn at 2:17 PM on May 11, 2014
Early in the first season they showed a couple of passports/IDs showing the clones were born in the spring of 1984.
posted by plastic_animals at 2:33 PM on May 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by plastic_animals at 2:33 PM on May 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
So the lab fire was in 1976, the photo was 1977, and the kids were born seven years later--and the Duncans were around to play with Rachel? Innnnteresting.
Also we're taking bets at our house about who's going to get implanted with the successfully fertilized egg. Conservation of characters suggests who it should be pretty strongly, but maybe they'll go another way.
Since we're now in this episode, I'm going to grump about last week's preview that saw Sarah out of her captor's custody. Way to break the cliffhanger tension, guys.
And n-thing that Cal is a little too perfect. I am suspicious.
posted by immlass at 3:00 PM on May 11, 2014
Also we're taking bets at our house about who's going to get implanted with the successfully fertilized egg. Conservation of characters suggests who it should be pretty strongly, but maybe they'll go another way.
Since we're now in this episode, I'm going to grump about last week's preview that saw Sarah out of her captor's custody. Way to break the cliffhanger tension, guys.
And n-thing that Cal is a little too perfect. I am suspicious.
posted by immlass at 3:00 PM on May 11, 2014
Cal is a little too perfect, isn't he?
His ramming Daniel's car was pretty bad ass. Or stupid. I guess if all three of them ended up dead, or hospitalized, Kira would have just fended for herself out there in the woods?
And then after executing that brilliant plan he acts appalled that Sarah was holding a gun on a cop car? Dude!
I guess Cal likes the local cops though. And it was nice when his cop friend (poor guy) covered for him.
How did Daniel know Sarah was at Cal's place? I'm a little confused about Daniel's intel generally. How did he know to go the birdwatchers' house?
posted by torticat at 3:16 PM on May 11, 2014
His ramming Daniel's car was pretty bad ass. Or stupid. I guess if all three of them ended up dead, or hospitalized, Kira would have just fended for herself out there in the woods?
And then after executing that brilliant plan he acts appalled that Sarah was holding a gun on a cop car? Dude!
I guess Cal likes the local cops though. And it was nice when his cop friend (poor guy) covered for him.
How did Daniel know Sarah was at Cal's place? I'm a little confused about Daniel's intel generally. How did he know to go the birdwatchers' house?
posted by torticat at 3:16 PM on May 11, 2014
Do you guys think Cal was (supposed to be) Sarah's monitor?
posted by travelwithcats at 5:12 PM on May 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by travelwithcats at 5:12 PM on May 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
Yeah, Cal "I have a convenient flawless camper stashed away registered under another name for just this kind of emergency and by the way I got you pregnant when supposedly nobody can" is a bit too good.
And when she said "the Dyad Institute" what I thought was significant was his complete lack of surprise and no meaningful followup question. No "who's that?" if he didn't know of it and no "what would they want with you?" if he did.
posted by George_Spiggott at 6:06 PM on May 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
And when she said "the Dyad Institute" what I thought was significant was his complete lack of surprise and no meaningful followup question. No "who's that?" if he didn't know of it and no "what would they want with you?" if he did.
posted by George_Spiggott at 6:06 PM on May 11, 2014 [2 favorites]
It's been a while since I watched season 1--shouldn't Art recognize Helena from his various investigations? Though I can see being kind of confused by a woman in a wedding dress fleeing with a knife, and not reacting quickly.
Re: Cal being Sarah's potential monitor:
--wasn't she off the grid? Like, they didn't know she existed for a while?
--I was gonna say something here about Sarah grifting him, but we don't really know the circumstances there. And it does seem like he's involved in some way, which Sarah maybe realized when Cosima said Leda was probably a military thing?
posted by leesh at 6:09 PM on May 11, 2014
Re: Cal being Sarah's potential monitor:
--wasn't she off the grid? Like, they didn't know she existed for a while?
--I was gonna say something here about Sarah grifting him, but we don't really know the circumstances there. And it does seem like he's involved in some way, which Sarah maybe realized when Cosima said Leda was probably a military thing?
posted by leesh at 6:09 PM on May 11, 2014
PS In my experience looking at lots of federal grants for work the government/military really does love giving mythology-related names/acronyms to things! Leda is KIND OF too on-the-nose though.
posted by leesh at 6:10 PM on May 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by leesh at 6:10 PM on May 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
shouldn't Art recognize Helena from his various investigations?
He should, he should remember her from when Angie showed him the picture of her in the hospital (on Angie's cell phone).
As a cop he might consider confronting the guys pursuing her with guns to be the higher priority, though, rather than catching her.
Which does raise the question of why he just let them GO.
posted by torticat at 7:18 PM on May 11, 2014
He should, he should remember her from when Angie showed him the picture of her in the hospital (on Angie's cell phone).
As a cop he might consider confronting the guys pursuing her with guns to be the higher priority, though, rather than catching her.
Which does raise the question of why he just let them GO.
posted by torticat at 7:18 PM on May 11, 2014
Yeah, Cal "I have a convenient flawless camper stashed away registered under another name for just this kind of emergency and by the way I got you pregnant when supposedly nobody can" is a bit too good.
Though now I do think that stashing an RV not registered to me "just in case" is an utter necessity.
And man, that scene with Helena and Sarah in the shower with Sarah just breaking the fuck down was chilling.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 7:41 PM on May 11, 2014 [3 favorites]
I just saw the banner image on the main OB page and my first thought was, "Huh, why just Tatiana Maslany? Oh, right, they're all Tatiana Maslany."
posted by Room 641-A at 7:50 PM on May 11, 2014 [9 favorites]
posted by Room 641-A at 7:50 PM on May 11, 2014 [9 favorites]
So that the spirit of man (according as it is meted out to different individuals) is in fact a thing variable and full of perturbation, and governed as it were by chance.-- Francis Bacon, Novum Organum
posted by mmoncur at 10:26 PM on May 11, 2014 [1 favorite]
Which does raise the question of why he just let them GO.
He had no reason to hold them, once they handed the rifles back across the property line. Plus, he was outnumbered and Art probably caught the vibe that these guys probably wouldn't hesitate to bury him if he got aggressive with them.
As much as I loved Helena's rescue of Sarah, and as much as I loved the final scene between them, it was all wayyyy too "and then a miracle happens" for my taste. Not the most believable thing they've come up with so far. She somehow gets into a fancy hotel without being seen? And, how did she even get into the room? I can't imagine Daniel would have willingly let the known murdering psychopath into the room. He did check the eyehole in the door first, right?
Anyone want to take bets as to whether Daniel is actual dead...again?
posted by Thorzdad at 5:59 AM on May 12, 2014
He had no reason to hold them, once they handed the rifles back across the property line. Plus, he was outnumbered and Art probably caught the vibe that these guys probably wouldn't hesitate to bury him if he got aggressive with them.
As much as I loved Helena's rescue of Sarah, and as much as I loved the final scene between them, it was all wayyyy too "and then a miracle happens" for my taste. Not the most believable thing they've come up with so far. She somehow gets into a fancy hotel without being seen? And, how did she even get into the room? I can't imagine Daniel would have willingly let the known murdering psychopath into the room. He did check the eyehole in the door first, right?
Anyone want to take bets as to whether Daniel is actual dead...again?
posted by Thorzdad at 5:59 AM on May 12, 2014
You'd think that Helena knows how to kill people, right? But then they said Gracie was sleeping when they admired the wonder of life. So will she be the gestational carrier?
As for Daniel, I think he's gone for good this time.
posted by travelwithcats at 6:27 AM on May 12, 2014 [1 favorite]
As for Daniel, I think he's gone for good this time.
posted by travelwithcats at 6:27 AM on May 12, 2014 [1 favorite]
Well, I'm glad that out of the overused women's fertility sci-fi tropes that at least they went with the stolen eggs/ovaries trope instead of the forced pregnancy trope.
posted by Jacqueline at 6:42 AM on May 12, 2014 [6 favorites]
posted by Jacqueline at 6:42 AM on May 12, 2014 [6 favorites]
There were lots of improbabilities in this episode: Cal hiding Kira and catching up to and ramming Sarah and Daniel at just the right time, Helena making her way back to the city before Sarah, Daniel walking into a luxury hotel covered in blood, etc. Still, very entertaining.
Helena said something like "Now you sleep" when she put Gracie into the sleeper hold so I think she was intentionally not killing her. Since Gracie is the only young female Prolethean we know of I'd have to assume she will carry the child.
posted by plastic_animals at 6:45 AM on May 12, 2014
Helena said something like "Now you sleep" when she put Gracie into the sleeper hold so I think she was intentionally not killing her. Since Gracie is the only young female Prolethean we know of I'd have to assume she will carry the child.
posted by plastic_animals at 6:45 AM on May 12, 2014
I loved how quickly & forcefully Helena put her in that hold. I know some of it was camera stuff, but they got it right as far as the appearance of it.
posted by cashman at 6:58 AM on May 12, 2014
posted by cashman at 6:58 AM on May 12, 2014
He had no reason to hold them
A cop has no reason to hold a bunch of guys with guns chasing a bloodied woman?
But yeah, he was outnumbered, I can buy that. Not his finest moment, perhaps, but Art definitely seems like a guy who needs a bit of time to process new developments. And maybe (giving him the benefit of the doubt) he figured the woman who got out of a hospital after a gunshot to her heart would be okay if he just bought her a few minutes.
posted by torticat at 7:11 AM on May 12, 2014
A cop has no reason to hold a bunch of guys with guns chasing a bloodied woman?
But yeah, he was outnumbered, I can buy that. Not his finest moment, perhaps, but Art definitely seems like a guy who needs a bit of time to process new developments. And maybe (giving him the benefit of the doubt) he figured the woman who got out of a hospital after a gunshot to her heart would be okay if he just bought her a few minutes.
posted by torticat at 7:11 AM on May 12, 2014
His ramming Daniel's car was pretty bad ass. Or stupid.
That trope always pulls me out of the moment. It seems really hard to pull off with two cars at speed, and only makes sense if you want to kill the people in the car you are hitting.
posted by smackfu at 9:49 AM on May 12, 2014 [2 favorites]
That trope always pulls me out of the moment. It seems really hard to pull off with two cars at speed, and only makes sense if you want to kill the people in the car you are hitting.
posted by smackfu at 9:49 AM on May 12, 2014 [2 favorites]
Daniel walking into a luxury hotel covered in blood, etc.
I can imagine this might not be the first time he has ended up covered in blood, and I can believe Rachel pays the people in the hotel to not ask questions. I had a harder time believing Helena got there unnoticed.
Does anyone else get the feeling they might be setting up Kira to have psychic powers? I just thought of this after this episode where she magically knew who her dad was, and having some sort of sense of whether Shioban's secrets were good or bad. It's thin, sure, but why else would she just blurt out "are you my dad" to someone she's never seen before?
posted by bjrn at 10:58 AM on May 12, 2014 [2 favorites]
I can imagine this might not be the first time he has ended up covered in blood, and I can believe Rachel pays the people in the hotel to not ask questions. I had a harder time believing Helena got there unnoticed.
Does anyone else get the feeling they might be setting up Kira to have psychic powers? I just thought of this after this episode where she magically knew who her dad was, and having some sort of sense of whether Shioban's secrets were good or bad. It's thin, sure, but why else would she just blurt out "are you my dad" to someone she's never seen before?
posted by bjrn at 10:58 AM on May 12, 2014 [2 favorites]
Does anyone else get the feeling they might be setting up Kira to have psychic powers?
Ugh, I hope not. So far, they've mostly succeeded in not falling into the "bred with super-powers" trope. Kira being psychic would really put a damper on my enjoyment of the show.
On the other hand...Anyone want to entertain the possibility of Felix going over to the dark side? He can't keep being comedy relief and Alison's life coach.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:25 PM on May 12, 2014 [1 favorite]
Ugh, I hope not. So far, they've mostly succeeded in not falling into the "bred with super-powers" trope. Kira being psychic would really put a damper on my enjoyment of the show.
On the other hand...Anyone want to entertain the possibility of Felix going over to the dark side? He can't keep being comedy relief and Alison's life coach.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:25 PM on May 12, 2014 [1 favorite]
And, yes, I realize Helena, at least, has some highly unusual recuperative powers, which is why I said "mostly succeeded".
posted by Thorzdad at 1:30 PM on May 12, 2014
posted by Thorzdad at 1:30 PM on May 12, 2014
They are totally going with Kira having some psychic or pre-cognitive powers. She knew Helena wasn't going to hurt her last season, she knew to trust Alison, and there was the guardian angel this week. She and Helena have also had amazing recuperative powers, quickly recovering from being impaled by rebar, getting hit by a car, or being shot point blank in the chest. They haven't really highlighted the recuperative powers yet for Sarah but I'd guess we'll learn that she has the same ability.
I just hope they don't overplay that part and they turn out to be "super-clones" like you said Thorzdad.
posted by plastic_animals at 1:42 PM on May 12, 2014 [1 favorite]
I just hope they don't overplay that part and they turn out to be "super-clones" like you said Thorzdad.
posted by plastic_animals at 1:42 PM on May 12, 2014 [1 favorite]
In large part, I agree with you plastic_animals. Kira and Helena have demonstrated great intuition. Not sure what to make of the healing though. When Kira was hit by the car it was odd that she'd been so "lucky" and came out of it with merely a scratch. And I recall Mrs. S stressing what a special girl Kira was before she shot the birdwatcher lady.
But for Helena, I attributed her recovery after Sarah shot her to her abnormal anatomy. As a situs inversus the bullet did not hit her heart. And it took her several weeks (?) to somewhat recover again. Helena's healing powers seem not as miraculous as Kira's.
posted by travelwithcats at 3:09 PM on May 12, 2014
But for Helena, I attributed her recovery after Sarah shot her to her abnormal anatomy. As a situs inversus the bullet did not hit her heart. And it took her several weeks (?) to somewhat recover again. Helena's healing powers seem not as miraculous as Kira's.
posted by travelwithcats at 3:09 PM on May 12, 2014
They're pretty clearly setting Project Leda up as a military program. Which probably leads to a super-soldier program. Whether that's healing powers only or also includes psychic whatsnames ...
posted by feckless at 3:27 PM on May 12, 2014
posted by feckless at 3:27 PM on May 12, 2014
Haha, when I first watched Orphan Black I got a bit of a Dark Angel vibe.
posted by travelwithcats at 3:35 PM on May 12, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by travelwithcats at 3:35 PM on May 12, 2014 [2 favorites]
I kept yelling at the screen that honestly, if you're going to try to kill the bad guy, MAKE SURE THE BAD GUY IS DEAD before you leave!
posted by sarcasticah at 3:39 PM on May 12, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by sarcasticah at 3:39 PM on May 12, 2014 [1 favorite]
Yeah, what feckless said. I'm just now realizing that the point here isn't the cloning, it's something else. That's the only way to make sense of the prolethean stuff. The clones were a means to an end. This show is really about the attempt to genetically engineer superhumans. That's what I'm thinking.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 4:02 PM on May 12, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 4:02 PM on May 12, 2014 [2 favorites]
This show is really about the attempt to genetically engineer superhumans.
Makes sense with Project LEDA, and I'm curious if some version of Castor and Pollux are going to show up. Though if Helena is Helen, does that make Sarah Clytemnestra? She's not particularly Clytemnestra-ish.
Then again, Helena is not particularly Helen-ish, so.
posted by tzikeh at 4:15 PM on May 12, 2014
Makes sense with Project LEDA, and I'm curious if some version of Castor and Pollux are going to show up. Though if Helena is Helen, does that make Sarah Clytemnestra? She's not particularly Clytemnestra-ish.
Then again, Helena is not particularly Helen-ish, so.
posted by tzikeh at 4:15 PM on May 12, 2014
When Kira was hit by the car it was odd that she'd been so "lucky" and came out of it with merely a scratch.
It wasn't so much that she came out without a scratch as that she miraculously healed though, right? Wasn't that the significance of the u/s tech saying "Doctor, you're going to want to see this" and the tissues knitting themselves back together?
posted by torticat at 4:37 PM on May 12, 2014 [1 favorite]
It wasn't so much that she came out without a scratch as that she miraculously healed though, right? Wasn't that the significance of the u/s tech saying "Doctor, you're going to want to see this" and the tissues knitting themselves back together?
posted by torticat at 4:37 PM on May 12, 2014 [1 favorite]
And when she said "the Dyad Institute"
She actually called it something else -- Dyad "group" maybe? I wondered when she said it if that was relevant.
Also, I want to have a day, just one day, where the only human voice I hear is Helena saying "Sist-ruh."
posted by mudpuppie at 6:40 PM on May 12, 2014 [2 favorites]
She actually called it something else -- Dyad "group" maybe? I wondered when she said it if that was relevant.
Also, I want to have a day, just one day, where the only human voice I hear is Helena saying "Sist-ruh."
posted by mudpuppie at 6:40 PM on May 12, 2014 [2 favorites]
I was pretty underwhelmed by the episode until that last scene. And then I ... wasn't.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 7:45 PM on May 12, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 7:45 PM on May 12, 2014 [1 favorite]
Oh, gods, yeah. That music sting when Helena appeared, and then... I legitimately had no idea whatsoever whether she was going to kill Sarah, or herself, or everyone or no one or -- basically anything would have made sense.
posted by Etrigan at 7:39 AM on May 13, 2014
posted by Etrigan at 7:39 AM on May 13, 2014
I legitimately had no idea whatsoever whether she was going to kill Sarah, or herself, or everyone or no one or -- basically anything would have made sense.
You know that's the thing I realized in this last episode (and probably something people realized last season): any of the clones are pretty fair game as far as killing them off because it's not like you are losing a cast member and have to keep it secret.
I seriously doubt any of them are going to anytime soon (and again it speaks to the power of Tatiana Maslany's performances that I would be a tiny bit outraged to lose any of them), but the possibility is thrilling.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 7:54 AM on May 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
You know that's the thing I realized in this last episode (and probably something people realized last season): any of the clones are pretty fair game as far as killing them off because it's not like you are losing a cast member and have to keep it secret.
I seriously doubt any of them are going to anytime soon (and again it speaks to the power of Tatiana Maslany's performances that I would be a tiny bit outraged to lose any of them), but the possibility is thrilling.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 7:54 AM on May 13, 2014 [1 favorite]
...any of the clones are pretty fair game as far as killing them off because it's not like you are losing a cast member and have to keep it secret.
That, and, they're clones. Who's to say yet another one won't pop-up somewhere?
posted by Thorzdad at 12:21 PM on May 13, 2014
That, and, they're clones. Who's to say yet another one won't pop-up somewhere?
posted by Thorzdad at 12:21 PM on May 13, 2014
Anyone want to take bets as to whether Daniel is actual dead...again?
It depends on whether he was in range of the resurrection hub.
posted by homunculus at 1:23 PM on May 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
It depends on whether he was in range of the resurrection hub.
posted by homunculus at 1:23 PM on May 13, 2014 [4 favorites]
thewetcloud's analysis of the Sarah/Helena scene.
posted by floatboth at 1:57 PM on May 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by floatboth at 1:57 PM on May 13, 2014 [3 favorites]
Sigh. The New York Times, which infamously said that Tatiana Maslany "lacks the kind of range that would really make the clones into distinct, and distinctive, characters" before this season began has effusively praised Maslany's acting in this week's recap. Different critics, but it's rather silly how clueless they are.
The tone deaf recap (he refers to the Sarah-Helena scene as the twins "catching-up") also "corrects" Helena for thinking the Proletheans took something from her, and insists that "we know the opposite to be true" and that she is pregnant.
posted by plastic_animals at 6:13 AM on May 14, 2014
The tone deaf recap (he refers to the Sarah-Helena scene as the twins "catching-up") also "corrects" Helena for thinking the Proletheans took something from her, and insists that "we know the opposite to be true" and that she is pregnant.
posted by plastic_animals at 6:13 AM on May 14, 2014
The New York Times is getting really embarrassing in its TV coverage. I wanted to say it only seems that way because other outlets have raised their game, but those two pieces don't make me want to cut them any slack.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 6:24 AM on May 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by MCMikeNamara at 6:24 AM on May 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
The New York Times is getting really embarrassing in its TV coverage.
I feel like TV criticism is more like sports reporting than movie criticism -- you have to devote so much time to most shows that you can't help either being a fan or hating them deeply, but you still have to work to look impartial. And you have to at least be a fan of the genre (in sports terms, a basketball writer has to at least like basketball, even if he's not a fan of particular NBA teams or practices), or else you're going to produce embarrassingly tin-eared crap that's ignorant of basic conventions.
posted by Etrigan at 6:39 AM on May 14, 2014
I feel like TV criticism is more like sports reporting than movie criticism -- you have to devote so much time to most shows that you can't help either being a fan or hating them deeply, but you still have to work to look impartial. And you have to at least be a fan of the genre (in sports terms, a basketball writer has to at least like basketball, even if he's not a fan of particular NBA teams or practices), or else you're going to produce embarrassingly tin-eared crap that's ignorant of basic conventions.
posted by Etrigan at 6:39 AM on May 14, 2014
...also "corrects" Helena for thinking the Proletheans took something from her, and insists that "we know the opposite to be true" and that she is pregnant.
That does seem egregious, but I wonder how many people understood the significance of what Mr. Smiling Cowboy Evil Doctor was looking at? That guy didn't.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 2:08 PM on May 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
That does seem egregious, but I wonder how many people understood the significance of what Mr. Smiling Cowboy Evil Doctor was looking at? That guy didn't.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 2:08 PM on May 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
Oooooohhhhhh... Helena didn't literally follow Sara and just show up at the apartment, she used their psychic hotline connection?!
Also, the more I get annoyed with Sara treating Kira like a handbag she can only carry around for awhile before she needs to dump her off with someone else, not to mention Alison's kids being "shipped off" or whatever, the more I want to believe there is some kind of overarching motif about abandonment rather than just lame plotting decisions.
posted by P.o.B. at 3:18 PM on May 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
Also, the more I get annoyed with Sara treating Kira like a handbag she can only carry around for awhile before she needs to dump her off with someone else, not to mention Alison's kids being "shipped off" or whatever, the more I want to believe there is some kind of overarching motif about abandonment rather than just lame plotting decisions.
posted by P.o.B. at 3:18 PM on May 14, 2014 [1 favorite]
I don't think we can argue "conservation of characters" in this show because we have an essentially infinite number of clones to keep adding as needed.
Am I the only person who just doesn't enjoy Helena's character?
posted by jeather at 6:33 PM on May 14, 2014
Am I the only person who just doesn't enjoy Helena's character?
posted by jeather at 6:33 PM on May 14, 2014
P.o.B: Oooooohhhhhh... Helena didn't literally follow Sara and just show up at the apartment, she used their psychic hotline connection?!
No, she literally followed Sarah from Mrs. S's house. That's where she hid (in the closet) after running away from the Proletheans. We see her open the closet door after she overhears Sarah telling Felix what's going on. Then, in the bathroom at Rachel's, she (Helena) tells Sarah that she followed her there from "mother's house."
posted by tzikeh at 6:38 PM on May 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
No, she literally followed Sarah from Mrs. S's house. That's where she hid (in the closet) after running away from the Proletheans. We see her open the closet door after she overhears Sarah telling Felix what's going on. Then, in the bathroom at Rachel's, she (Helena) tells Sarah that she followed her there from "mother's house."
posted by tzikeh at 6:38 PM on May 14, 2014 [2 favorites]
"Am I the only person who just doesn't enjoy Helena's character?"
No, she bugs me. However, I think she makes the show more interesting through sheer contrast and weirdness.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 12:27 AM on May 15, 2014
No, she bugs me. However, I think she makes the show more interesting through sheer contrast and weirdness.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 12:27 AM on May 15, 2014
No, she literally followed Sarah from Mrs. S's house.
I must not have been watching closely because I thought her popping up inside the house right when dude was going to peel Sarah's face off was kind of "Angelus Ex Machina".
posted by P.o.B. at 12:59 AM on May 15, 2014
I must not have been watching closely because I thought her popping up inside the house right when dude was going to peel Sarah's face off was kind of "Angelus Ex Machina".
posted by P.o.B. at 12:59 AM on May 15, 2014
"That does seem egregious, but I wonder how many people understood the significance of what Mr. Smiling Cowboy Evil Doctor was looking at? That guy didn't."
So he believes we have devices that let us look closely into a woman's fallopian tube/uterus when she is not even there? Maybe that NYT critic skipped the entire last scene?
Fertilization is something people learn about in high school, so you'd think how it looks like is common knowledge. Plus, the Proletheans were not really all that concerned by Helena's escape and were delighted by the events on the screen.
So it's hard to believe that the critic got all of it wrong.
posted by travelwithcats at 7:31 AM on May 15, 2014 [1 favorite]
So he believes we have devices that let us look closely into a woman's fallopian tube/uterus when she is not even there? Maybe that NYT critic skipped the entire last scene?
Fertilization is something people learn about in high school, so you'd think how it looks like is common knowledge. Plus, the Proletheans were not really all that concerned by Helena's escape and were delighted by the events on the screen.
So it's hard to believe that the critic got all of it wrong.
posted by travelwithcats at 7:31 AM on May 15, 2014 [1 favorite]
How Is Orphan Black An Illustration of the Simulacrum?
posted by homunculus at 4:46 PM on May 15, 2014
posted by homunculus at 4:46 PM on May 15, 2014
That NYT critic clearly missed something but that doesn't rule out that Helena is pregnant.
I know very little about this, but it's my understanding that even if you have a fertilized egg there's still quite some risk of it not attaching to the womb it's inserted into. Not to mention the normal risks of any pregnancy. You could read that scene as them confirming that Helena's eggs could be fertilized and that their insemination of Helena at least has a chance of being successful. And that they aren't happy about having a fertilized egg, but about having hope that Helena will carry their child.
As for Kira and psychic powers, I really hope it was just a case of "kids say the darnedest things". I think I'd enjoy the show less if this turned into ... Heroes.
posted by bjrn at 5:18 AM on May 16, 2014
I know very little about this, but it's my understanding that even if you have a fertilized egg there's still quite some risk of it not attaching to the womb it's inserted into. Not to mention the normal risks of any pregnancy. You could read that scene as them confirming that Helena's eggs could be fertilized and that their insemination of Helena at least has a chance of being successful. And that they aren't happy about having a fertilized egg, but about having hope that Helena will carry their child.
As for Kira and psychic powers, I really hope it was just a case of "kids say the darnedest things". I think I'd enjoy the show less if this turned into ... Heroes.
posted by bjrn at 5:18 AM on May 16, 2014
Well, if you go for in vitro fertilization you have to extract the egg first. That's what the Proletheans did. That's why they were able to witness the sperm entering the egg in the petri dish under the microscope.
Artificial insemination is a different procedure where fertilization can not be witnessed under the microscope.
So now they have the zygote (fertilized egg) - in real life it takes a few days in a growth medium before the zygote is transferred into an uterus (either of the egg donor or a gestational carrier).
And then, as you said bjrn, "there's still quite some risk of it not attaching to the womb it's inserted into. Not to mention the normal risks of any pregnancy." But it ain't Helena who will be carrying that child.
posted by travelwithcats at 5:47 AM on May 16, 2014
Artificial insemination is a different procedure where fertilization can not be witnessed under the microscope.
So now they have the zygote (fertilized egg) - in real life it takes a few days in a growth medium before the zygote is transferred into an uterus (either of the egg donor or a gestational carrier).
And then, as you said bjrn, "there's still quite some risk of it not attaching to the womb it's inserted into. Not to mention the normal risks of any pregnancy." But it ain't Helena who will be carrying that child.
posted by travelwithcats at 5:47 AM on May 16, 2014
I meant that they could have done both. They took one or more eggs and also (might have) performed an artificial insemination on Helena. They could observe the egg they took, and from that infer that the insemination they did could have been successful.
posted by bjrn at 6:38 AM on May 16, 2014
posted by bjrn at 6:38 AM on May 16, 2014
There is an ovarian reserve but normally only one oocytes ovulates per cycle. If you'd want to harvest more eggs, you'd have to stimulate the ovaries with a hormone treatment over the duration of two weeks.
posted by travelwithcats at 6:51 AM on May 16, 2014
posted by travelwithcats at 6:51 AM on May 16, 2014
So if Sarah and Felix think Rachel is the baby of the two scientists, wouldn't that make her the original, and not a clone?
posted by P.o.B. at 4:37 PM on May 16, 2014
posted by P.o.B. at 4:37 PM on May 16, 2014
I thought Felix and Sarah said the scientists adopted her (and raised her to be a perfect corporate clone), except then Sarah saw the happy family video?
posted by leesh at 5:13 PM on May 16, 2014
posted by leesh at 5:13 PM on May 16, 2014
Two things noticed on second viewing:
First: The person in the closet is not Helena. She is wearing a white, blood-soaked dress before and after this scene, and the person who steps out is wearing a brown, men's coat.
Also, the way they didn't reveal the face is usually cinematic shorthand for "new character."
Anyway, it wouldn't make sense that Helena was following Sarah, but then somehow got into the house first, before Felix, who was already there. Stealth is not really her strong suit.
Second: They referenced the show's title for the first time:
Mrs S to Carlton in the bar:
"Twenty years ago, you brought an orphan to my door. 'Put her in the black,' you said, 'as black as it gets.'"
An orphan in the black. Orphan Black.
posted by LEGO Damashii at 11:06 PM on May 19, 2014 [4 favorites]
First: The person in the closet is not Helena. She is wearing a white, blood-soaked dress before and after this scene, and the person who steps out is wearing a brown, men's coat.
Also, the way they didn't reveal the face is usually cinematic shorthand for "new character."
Anyway, it wouldn't make sense that Helena was following Sarah, but then somehow got into the house first, before Felix, who was already there. Stealth is not really her strong suit.
Second: They referenced the show's title for the first time:
Mrs S to Carlton in the bar:
"Twenty years ago, you brought an orphan to my door. 'Put her in the black,' you said, 'as black as it gets.'"
An orphan in the black. Orphan Black.
posted by LEGO Damashii at 11:06 PM on May 19, 2014 [4 favorites]
I'm going to re-watch this episode because I missed your first point completely. Might be worth putting it in the new thread, too. (That should be kosher, right, since it's already happened?)
posted by Room 641-A at 7:03 AM on May 20, 2014
posted by Room 641-A at 7:03 AM on May 20, 2014
They referenced the show's title for the first time
I watched the first season in fits and starts over the course of a couple of weekends of also watching a varying number of tweens, so I'd always wondered whether I missed some sort of explanation of the title.
posted by Etrigan at 7:17 AM on May 20, 2014
I watched the first season in fits and starts over the course of a couple of weekends of also watching a varying number of tweens, so I'd always wondered whether I missed some sort of explanation of the title.
posted by Etrigan at 7:17 AM on May 20, 2014
> Second: They referenced the show's title for the first time
The phrase of "[orphans] in the black" definitely came up in season one as well. I think somewhere in the last few episodes.
posted by bjrn at 11:23 AM on May 20, 2014
The phrase of "[orphans] in the black" definitely came up in season one as well. I think somewhere in the last few episodes.
posted by bjrn at 11:23 AM on May 20, 2014
According to the Orphan Black wiki: According to clues in the episode "Entangled Bank", Orphan Black refers to orphans "in the black", meaning orphans who were undocumented, who have become the subjects of medical experiments.
Entangled Bank was the 8th episode of season 1.
posted by bjrn at 11:44 AM on May 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
Entangled Bank was the 8th episode of season 1.
posted by bjrn at 11:44 AM on May 20, 2014 [1 favorite]
So "orphans in the black" is a euphemism made up for this show, yes? I didn't find any external references to it with basic Googling. Also, that's not quite the shade of meaning implied in Mrs. S's statement. Not so much that an orphan in the black is undocumented and has become a medical subject, but rather that to put an orphan in the black is to actually make them undocumented, to hide them from future experimentation.
If the former, then potentially all the clones are Orphans Black.
If the latter, then only Sarah and Helena are.
Also, Fanfare rule check? Should additional observations about this episode go only in this episode's thread, as people from the future will expect it here? For example, the brown coat person is relevant to this thread, until/unless they show up again later.
posted by LEGO Damashii at 6:15 PM on May 20, 2014
If the former, then potentially all the clones are Orphans Black.
If the latter, then only Sarah and Helena are.
Also, Fanfare rule check? Should additional observations about this episode go only in this episode's thread, as people from the future will expect it here? For example, the brown coat person is relevant to this thread, until/unless they show up again later.
posted by LEGO Damashii at 6:15 PM on May 20, 2014
Also, Fanfare rule check? Should additional observations about this episode go only in this episode's thread, as people from the future will expect it here? For example, the brown coat person is relevant to this thread, until/unless they show up again later.
I think the rule is not to make observations that are informed by future episodes (e.g., "See, we can tell in this episode that the brown coat person will turn out to be New Clone 17, as revealed in Season 3, Episode 9!" or even "Hey, if you see that one guy in the background of this scene, I ain't sayin' anything, but he'll be important.").
posted by Etrigan at 7:56 PM on May 20, 2014
I think the rule is not to make observations that are informed by future episodes (e.g., "See, we can tell in this episode that the brown coat person will turn out to be New Clone 17, as revealed in Season 3, Episode 9!" or even "Hey, if you see that one guy in the background of this scene, I ain't sayin' anything, but he'll be important.").
posted by Etrigan at 7:56 PM on May 20, 2014
I just skimmed through the episode that definitely looks like a well-worn brown coat coming out from behind the door at Mrs. S's place. The only outerwear that I noticed resembling it was the sweater Sarah was wearing. Nobody else in the episode was wearing a coat or sweater that was even close. Continuity error? Wardrobe malfunction? Did Helena find a coat on her way back to the city then discard it before getting to the hotel?
posted by plastic_animals at 8:06 PM on May 20, 2014
posted by plastic_animals at 8:06 PM on May 20, 2014
I just watched this episode and now I want to be locked in some kind of transgressive lesbian geek spiral, bound to end in tears. Also please to include my own creepy but amazingly well-funded lab. Also, separately, I love everything about Mrs. S. OK, that's it.
posted by en forme de poire at 1:04 AM on April 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by en forme de poire at 1:04 AM on April 17, 2015 [1 favorite]
Does anyone else get the feeling they might be setting up Kira to have psychic powers?
We've been nodding "clone smarts" at each other for a few episodes now: Kira seems unnaturally smart and perceptive. travelwithcats' assessment of "intuitive" seems right to me: Kira immediately read Alison as not her mother, Cal as her father.
Plus the whole cloney-recuperative-powers thing. We've seen that before repeatedly with Helena rapidly recovering from Sarah-inflicted injuries: not just being shot, also being stabbed with a piece of rebar. "It's a miracle."
Daniel's Terminator reboot out of the crashed car seemed somewhat miraculous too...
Yes, Cal seems just a bit too perfect.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 9:59 PM on April 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
We've been nodding "clone smarts" at each other for a few episodes now: Kira seems unnaturally smart and perceptive. travelwithcats' assessment of "intuitive" seems right to me: Kira immediately read Alison as not her mother, Cal as her father.
Plus the whole cloney-recuperative-powers thing. We've seen that before repeatedly with Helena rapidly recovering from Sarah-inflicted injuries: not just being shot, also being stabbed with a piece of rebar. "It's a miracle."
Daniel's Terminator reboot out of the crashed car seemed somewhat miraculous too...
Yes, Cal seems just a bit too perfect.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 9:59 PM on April 20, 2015 [1 favorite]
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A.V. Club grade: A
posted by homunculus at 11:01 AM on May 11, 2014