Game of Thrones: The Door Show Only

May 22, 2016 7:03 PM - Season 6, Episode 5

Tyrion seeks a strange ally. Bran learns a great deal. Brienne goes on a mission. Arya is given a chance to prove herself. SHOW ONLY THREAD.

Written by David Benioff & D. B. Weiss
Directed by Jack Bender
Full cast and crew credits
Official HBO link for the episode

posted by Brandon Blatcher (241 comments total)

This fucking show.

Hodor

.
posted by sparklemotion at 7:04 PM on May 22, 2016 [6 favorites]

Hodor.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:04 PM on May 22, 2016 [1 favorite]

Summer AND Hodor? Fuck you, show!!

I seriously cried harder at this than the Red Wedding.
posted by TwoStride at 7:04 PM on May 22, 2016 [5 favorites]

And if that ending hadn't been a hideous gutpunch the continuation of Tormund's burning love for Brienne would have been awesomesauce.
posted by TwoStride at 7:05 PM on May 22, 2016 [2 favorites]

That...that was a really good episode. I'm just stunned. From Jorah's last command from Dany, to Sansa's playing her game, what created the White Walkers and the revelation of Hodors name. This calls for a rewatch.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:07 PM on May 22, 2016 [3 favorites]

THAT SATRICAL PLAY THI


oh god, the ending, it's so freaking dragon age. I loved it. Yes, stable time loops from vision based warning in the past/present. Yes please, more of this, more ice spiders and night kings and crazy priestesses and elves throwing magic fireballs and YES FANTASY SERIES YES
posted by The Whelk at 7:09 PM on May 22, 2016 [13 favorites]

Bran's whole adventure in the root system has felt so completely separate from the rest of the show--and even the insane overrun of the tree sort of felt like a different show--that the Hodor revelation really forged a tighter connection to everything for me. In addition to breaking my heart.
posted by TwoStride at 7:11 PM on May 22, 2016 [6 favorites]

I love it, my family drama in furs and growling occasionally got interrupted with WIZARDS N SHIT
posted by The Whelk at 7:13 PM on May 22, 2016 [2 favorites]

I mean, if all we had gotten was Sansa being amazeballs and that White Walker reveal and Arya watching that sad sad play...

But Hodor. And Summer. And even stupid Ser Friendzone.

Hodor.
posted by sparklemotion at 7:13 PM on May 22, 2016 [5 favorites]

And legit zombie horde scary bits!
posted by sparklemotion at 7:14 PM on May 22, 2016

So are Yara and Theon off to visit Dany? Or heading to the Wall? And will Arya complete her assignment this time?

Poor Hodor. At the end, as kid, it's like he knew.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:14 PM on May 22, 2016 [1 favorite]

Also, male frontal nudity! and Sansa laying into Baelish about she endured. I've been skeptical of the showrunner learning anything from the last two seasons, but maybe they have?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:15 PM on May 22, 2016 [9 favorites]

AND I FORGOT TO MENTION

The red priestess who can leave Varys speechless is a red priestess that I wish to see more of.

Hodor.
posted by sparklemotion at 7:18 PM on May 22, 2016 [11 favorites]

So Meera has quite a hike ahead of her.
posted by A Bad Catholic at 7:18 PM on May 22, 2016

Unless this have access to Littlefinger's teleportation device.
posted by drezdn at 7:20 PM on May 22, 2016 [10 favorites]

Until I got to the end I would've said this was the best episode of the season by far but god dammit stop killing direwolves. And Hodor.

Hodor.

I do wonder though, if the magic woods people made the white walkers, can't they unmake them? This lack of foresight is not exactly an indicator of great wisdom.
posted by dis_integration at 7:23 PM on May 22, 2016 [4 favorites]

Eh, they were made in desperation and now they're kind of running all over? The white walkers being Massive Unintented Magical Consequences feels like the right fit for the show
posted by The Whelk at 7:25 PM on May 22, 2016 [7 favorites]

Ok and also: what does this say about Bran's ability to time travel? I mean it's legit time travel now, and not just looking into the past to see stuff. I sense some time-travel voodoo getting us out of our White Walker problem.
posted by dis_integration at 7:26 PM on May 22, 2016 [4 favorites]

I'm guessing they got out of their control?
posted by drezdn at 7:26 PM on May 22, 2016

Summer? Seriously? Ugh.

The showrunners have fucked up big time killing off all the direwolves. There is obviously, obviously, going to be some huge big-budget showdown, with whoever the "goodies" end up being running into combat with whoever the "baddies" end up being. Keeping the direwolves would have made that inevitable showdown more awesome, but they have reverse-Chekhov'd themselves and I therefore suspect their competence as showrunners, creators, writers, directors, fathers, sons, brothers, and humans in general.

Lame af.
posted by turbid dahlia at 7:26 PM on May 22, 2016 [8 favorites]

Eee I liked it when they hit the Walker with the dragon glass shard and he shattered into ice
posted by The Whelk at 7:30 PM on May 22, 2016 [5 favorites]

but they have reverse-Chekhov'd themselves and I therefore suspect their competence as showrunners, creators, writers, directors, fathers, sons, brothers, and humans in general.

YES.

This was a fantastic episode. And even Hodor's death was well done. But why kill off Summer? There's no reason! I'm gonna go pet my dog.
posted by dis_integration at 7:31 PM on May 22, 2016 [3 favorites]

"Let's take all of the awesome and interesting and appealing things out of our show as soon as possible this season until it's just Ramsay fucking and stabbing everything because it's important we remember how bad he is. We need a scene where he fucks and stabs The Wall, just fucks and stabs it to pieces because he is just so evil and doesn't even care about the White Walkers. Also he needs to fuck and stab a dragon, while laughing. Get cracking on those scenes."
posted by turbid dahlia at 7:31 PM on May 22, 2016 [11 favorites]

I'm guessing that horror movie scene in the cave at up a bunch of budget.
posted by drezdn at 7:32 PM on May 22, 2016 [1 favorite]

TFW dude is trying way too hard and you're like really dude but you still kinda want it
posted by yellowbinder at 7:36 PM on May 22, 2016 [15 favorites]

All the White Walkers pour through the hole in The Wall while Ramsay is mid-thrust and mid-stab and his eyes go wide...too late he has learned the error of his ways. Cut to black so we don't get the reptilian satisfaction of seeing him torn limb from limb because we like to defy expectations.
posted by turbid dahlia at 7:37 PM on May 22, 2016 [2 favorites]

TFW dude is trying way too hard and you're like really dude but you still kinda want it

Wall patrol and chill?
posted by turbid dahlia at 7:38 PM on May 22, 2016 [11 favorites]

Holy hell. I just finished and came here first thing. Wow. Too many things.... Sansa being awesome.... The stuff.... The things. HODOR!!! Omg.... I can't even.. Best episode of the series in my humble opinion. Meera!! Run girl!! Lord, my pearls are clutched!!
posted by pearlybob at 7:41 PM on May 22, 2016

Watching the ending and ugly crying.
posted by andoatnp at 7:41 PM on May 22, 2016 [1 favorite]

Sansa and Baelish: it's not clear whether he did know about Ramsey. While Sansa displayed a lot of strength in her encounter with him, Baelish was still playing her a bit. She may find herself going back to him for help.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:42 PM on May 22, 2016 [2 favorites]

There's also the metaphor of Sansa mending and making clothing, as she's trying to do in the North and pretty much annoiting Jon as a Stark. But as the play Arya saw revealed, the Starks aren't highly thought of.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:44 PM on May 22, 2016 [2 favorites]

Keeping the direwolves would have made that inevitable showdown more awesome, but they have reverse-Chekhov'd themselves and I therefore suspect their competence as showrunners, creators, writers, directors, fathers, sons, brothers, and humans in general.

This is a show that killed off its protagonist before the end of the first season. Then, it built up that protagonist's son and killed him too. In season one, someone who knows nothing told us that the direwolves were "important" because there was just the right number of them. And even though we know not to trust this show we still want to believe that they are. But they are just big dogs. Who love their doomed humans and die for it, just like most of the other humans that we love too.

Hold the door.
posted by sparklemotion at 7:45 PM on May 22, 2016 [21 favorites]

Was also good to see that Arya isn't a super ninja. She's better, but the Waif still knocks her around with ease.

Having seen that play, I wonder if she'll feel as though she should return to Westeros and find Sansa. But with an ally in the Faceless Men.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:50 PM on May 22, 2016

Oh god, Hodor. That was heartbreaking.
posted by vespertine at 7:51 PM on May 22, 2016 [1 favorite]

Lame af.

Now I kind of want a passing mention of Nymeria getting killed offscreen just to read more salty, salty internet tears about the direwolves.

I think Ghost is gonna be the Last Wolf Standing. As it should be.
posted by Justinian at 7:52 PM on May 22, 2016 [3 favorites]

I wonder if she can just leave the FM though. The leader makes it sound like she either kills or gets killed.
posted by drezdn at 7:53 PM on May 22, 2016

Do we have any reason to believe that Littlefinger was lying about the Blackfish, as some sort of ... uh ... part of the game? Like getting up Sansa's expectations because he knows she wants power and will bite at any opportunity?
posted by komara at 8:01 PM on May 22, 2016

It's definitely some kind of trap. They made a big point of Littlefinger adding just "one more thing" before slinking off. It would be really out of character for him to just offer good, helpful information with no gain for himself or ulterior motive. He's manipulating her into going there for some reason.
posted by Sangermaine at 8:03 PM on May 22, 2016 [4 favorites]

Well, it's Baelish, anything is possible.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:03 PM on May 22, 2016

Littlefinger is obviously some kind of wizard and able to teleport thousands of miles on a whim. His magical travel is the only thing that really knocks at my suspension of disbelief. Dude jumps half a continent in a week.
posted by Justinian at 8:07 PM on May 22, 2016

I kind of love that you start out the show thinking that the wolves are going to be a big deal and it turns out that they're pretty useless.
posted by octothorpe at 8:09 PM on May 22, 2016 [3 favorites]

I think that Littlefinger is telling at least some truth about the Blackfish, if only because we are halfway through the season and Ian McShane hasn't shown up yet.
posted by sparklemotion at 8:10 PM on May 22, 2016

Hodor! Oh, Hodor. Suddenly so staggeringly tragic in retrospect.
posted by rmd1023 at 8:10 PM on May 22, 2016 [2 favorites]

The wolves always seemed silly to me and the clearly didn't care much for'em, so they might as well be gotten rid of.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:11 PM on May 22, 2016

I feel like we need to have one of those "somebody died" threads on the Blue for Hodor except we all say Hodor instead of the traditional dot, to honor his memory. Some of you have already started that here.

Hodor.
posted by scalefree at 8:12 PM on May 22, 2016 [6 favorites]

Hodor
posted by Justinian at 8:14 PM on May 22, 2016 [1 favorite]

Hodor.
posted by tilde at 8:15 PM on May 22, 2016 [1 favorite]

Please god no.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:16 PM on May 22, 2016 [11 favorites]

spoilsport
posted by Justinian at 8:17 PM on May 22, 2016 [1 favorite]

I just went on a Youtube retrospective of the previous times that Hodor started freaking out and I decided to spare you guys the links because we thought it was because Hodor was in danger but I actually think it was because Bran was -- especially in cases where the danger was on the other side of a door.

Hodor.
posted by sparklemotion at 8:18 PM on May 22, 2016 [10 favorites]

Yes. Say something more about the character and his journey, the narrative genius of it, the way the actor was able to put so much meaning into one word, the beautiful hearbreak of death, something!

Hodor
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:22 PM on May 22, 2016

Gah. Hodor.

I openly sobbed.

Also, I was watching on the HBO Go app, and after the credits there was a brief interview with the writers where thy made it clear they got the "hold the door" bit directly from GRRM himself. I think what I'm liking about this season is that, freed from the endless details of the books, they can just keep things moving and bring on these big moments like Dany's fire last week and the origin of Hodor this week.
posted by dnash at 8:24 PM on May 22, 2016 [3 favorites]

Sooo, who was the human that was turned the Night King? Anyone important, a Stark maybe? Does the "there must always be a Stark in Winterfell" command have a deeper meaning? And what was up with that ice horn NK was carrying on his back?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:30 PM on May 22, 2016 [3 favorites]

Holy fuck that was a good episode. It was so awesome I have already almost forgotten the awesome first parts because the awesome later parts overshadowed it. Damn, that was good.

Sorry the direwolves died, guys, but every time something sad/ugly happens--and it then gets blamed on those darned showrunners? It's bizarre. They're killing off bit characters as we get down to the final 15 or so episodes. Their death was probably outlined for them by GRRM five years ago. Not everyone gets a heroic death, and it's notable that not a single direwolf has gotten even close to a noble death. That's got GRRM written all over it.
posted by skewed at 8:32 PM on May 22, 2016 [3 favorites]

But the direwolves are awesome bigwolves whereas all the other characters are just kind of dirty and sweaty. They all smell like musky end-of-summer-hockey-practice genitalia and their teeth are all wobbly and they eat things like horsebread and just leave their poo wherever it falls. The direwolves are lovable floofs and quite scampish and pretty. They might as well have started the show with a number of piles of dirt and said "these are important dirt" and then we never see the dirt again until midway through season 7 someone says "Ramsay came along and kicked over all the dirts".
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:40 PM on May 22, 2016 [17 favorites]

I'm seeing the direwolves as metaphors for whatever goals and hopes the Stark children had when they were young. Rob expected to succeed his father, his wolf died when that dream did. Sansa wanted a fairytale marriage to a gallant king, Lady died when she saw her first glimpse of Geoffrey's true nature. We never really got to know Rickon, but whatever dreams he has are dead now.

Jon convinced himself he wanted to serve with distinction with the Watch, but all he ever really wanted was to find a place with his family. He's done the first, and is on his way to doing the second, so I think Ghost is going to be okay for a while.

Arya wanted an exciting life as a warrior adventuress. She sent Nymeria away in much the same easy she has had to abandon her own identity to train with the Faceless Men. I think that both will return to her before the song has ended.

I have a kind of crazy theory about Bran. Way back in season one, Ned told Bran about his namesake, Brandon the Builder, who built The Wall and infused it with magic to keep the White Walkers out the first time they threatened Westeros. Summer is dead. Winter has come. And Bran must accept the loss of his connection to everything he has known, because he is Brandon the Builder. At some point he is going to travel back in time and build the Wall. Which is why the Walkers are looking for him. If they can kill Bran, the enchantments keeping them from crossing the Wall will be broken.
posted by Uncle Ira at 8:40 PM on May 22, 2016 [96 favorites]

Also, holy crap that red priestess scaring the hell out of Varys! VARYS! That was unexpected and wonderfully unsettling.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:40 PM on May 22, 2016 [2 favorites]

Sooo, who was the human that was turned the Night King? Anyone important, a Stark maybe? Does the "there must always be a Stark in Winterfell" command have a deeper meaning? And what was up with that ice horn NK was carrying on his back?

I'm drawing from the books here, though I think this has been mentioned on the show. The mythical ancestor of the Starks is said to be Brandon the Builder, who in ancient times was the one who supposedly created the Wall at the end of the Long Night, and also Winterfell.

It would be quite ironic if the Others that Brandon built the Wall to keep out were Starks themselves.
posted by Sangermaine at 8:40 PM on May 22, 2016 [1 favorite]

So what do we think Yara is going to do with her army now? Surely not try to go pick up Dany first?
posted by Night_owl at 8:40 PM on May 22, 2016

The only thing GRRM outlined five years ago was his Fishing Hat Spreadsheet.
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:40 PM on May 22, 2016 [2 favorites]

ALSO, also, it was good to see Theon doing something worthwhile, even as others laughed about his cut off genitals. He bore the laughter and stood by his sister.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:44 PM on May 22, 2016 [8 favorites]

Hodor's back story kind of seems like a paradox. It was tragically sad though.
posted by toomanycurls at 8:45 PM on May 22, 2016

And Bran must accept the loss of his connection to everything he has known, because he is Brandon the Builder. At some point he is going to travel back in time and build the Wall. Which is why the Walkers are looking for him. If they can kill Bran, the enchantments keeping them from crossing the Wall will be broken.

I like this theory, but also hate it because got knows the Terminator series ended up as nothing but a disappointment.

The mythical ancestor of the Starks is said to be Brandon the Builder, who in ancient times was the one who created the Wall at the end of the Long Night, and also Winterfell. It would be quite ironic if the Others that Brandon built the Wall to keep out were Starks themselves.

I like this theory better. I also wonder if the Night King wasn't actually Bran the Builder himself (this theory would work better if old!NightKing wasn't blonde).

But then -- what if old!NightKing was a Targaryen? Something about the dragon-affinity plus the dragonglass through heart... Maybe that's why it all went wrong for the Children? They didn't realize the latent powers of the "human" that they chose? A song of Ice and Fire indeed.
posted by sparklemotion at 8:48 PM on May 22, 2016 [1 favorite]

Ugh you guys it was so good and so much happened and I totally called it on Hodor and also Theon has done like TWO redeeming things now and I have a lot of Shakespearean things to say about how the play's the thing in which they catch the conscious of the Arya and I just cannot even keep track because so much HAPPENED!
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:52 PM on May 22, 2016 [3 favorites]

Reminder: IRL Hodor is a gigantic gay DJ who dresses like this all the time
posted by The Whelk at 8:59 PM on May 22, 2016 [20 favorites]

Hodor's back story kind of seems like a paradox. It was tragically sad though.

for various reasons I;m reading a lot of classic X-Men comics and ..it totally fit, of course Hodor is caused by someone messing with his present/future by accidentally linking those DURING HIS DEATH
posted by The Whelk at 9:01 PM on May 22, 2016

Wow, that comic is hysterical. I'm going to replace "hold the door" with "hodor" all day tomorrow (not today, that would be too soon).

Littlefinger must be lying to Sansa. He only manipulates.

Love that theory of the dire wolfs, Uncle Ira. And love the theory that Bran is Bran the builder. Good insights ITT.

Great fucking episode and season!
posted by about_time at 9:04 PM on May 22, 2016

What exactly happened to Hodor? DreamBran tried to warg, but got into Hodor from the past and Hodor in the present? So past Hodor got overloaded with visions of demons and stroked out?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:05 PM on May 22, 2016 [1 favorite]

I think so, Bran the Blatcher.
posted by about_time at 9:06 PM on May 22, 2016 [17 favorites]

I think there's a chance that Littlefinger doesn't know the best direction to manipulate the situation right now.
posted by drezdn at 9:08 PM on May 22, 2016 [1 favorite]

Hodor.
posted by middleclasstool at 9:08 PM on May 22, 2016

Bran warged into Hodor but because Bran was both in the present (body) and in the past (mind) Hodor got dragged into it and got overloaded.

I like that this was telegraphed by the first time Bran warged into Hodor and everyone wrnt "okay um, thanks for saving us but seriously , don;t do that. That is not a THING WE DO and we kind of want to forget you did it"
posted by The Whelk at 9:09 PM on May 22, 2016 [4 favorites]

Now Hodor means "his watch has ended."
posted by drezdn at 9:09 PM on May 22, 2016 [1 favorite]

And Bran must accept the loss of his connection to everything he has known, because he is Brandon the Builder.

And he is also the elderly Guardian of the Tree. One of the last things the Guardian says to Bran is "now you must become me".
posted by scalefree at 9:11 PM on May 22, 2016 [2 favorites]

I think there's a chance that Littlefinger doesn't know the best direction to manipulate the situation right now.

Littlefinger's been written kind of badly this season. He was set up to the chess master's chess master, but he's kind of flailing around now. And Sansa was right, sending her to Ramsay was pretty boneheaded on his part.
posted by Sangermaine at 9:11 PM on May 22, 2016 [1 favorite]

DreamBran tried to warg, but got into Hodor from the past and Hodor in the present? So past Hodor got overloaded with visions of demons and stroked out?

I'm not sure if DreamBran was trying to warg -- he heard voices saying that they "need hodor" and he just looked over at him (without the standard warg-eyes happening). It was because Bran isn't in control of what happens in the dream that he broke Hodor.

This also works with a theory that I heard about how Bran was the one who drove the mad-king mad -- by whispering to him through the dream world. I didn't like that theory so much, and thought that maybe it would be more likely if the Three Eyed Raven was the one who made the mistake with Aerys.

But... I think we learned tonight that the Three Eyed Raven's story goes back a heck of a lot further than just the Mad King's life.

ALSO. According to the Game of Thrones Wikia (which sources a Season 2 viewers guide), part of the reason why the Walkers can't cross the wall is because of the Children's magic. The magic that Bran gave them a way around just now. They may not even need him anymore.
posted by sparklemotion at 9:13 PM on May 22, 2016

And he is also the elderly Guardian of the Tree. One of the last things the Guardian says to Bran is "now you must become me".

The storyline does have a very All You Zombies ring to it.
posted by Justinian at 9:13 PM on May 22, 2016 [1 favorite]

We should also keep in mind that Bran still doesn't really know what he's doing. The Three-Eyed Raven explicitly told him he's not ready.

Bran was in a high-stress situation where he was stuck in the dream world but could also sort of interact with the present, and he flailed around and broke Hodor in the past in attempting to warg into him in the present.
posted by Sangermaine at 9:16 PM on May 22, 2016 [1 favorite]

ALSO. You guys, the episode was titled "The Door"

Either D&D are just purely trolling us (which, tbh...) or Bran really is the door that the Walkers need -- and right now it's wide open.

Bran needs to hold the door.

For Hodor.
posted by sparklemotion at 9:19 PM on May 22, 2016 [8 favorites]

I was wondering if Bran was breaking the Wall magic and thus creating symmetry of Bran the Builder vs Bran the Destroyer.
posted by rmd1023 at 9:22 PM on May 22, 2016 [7 favorites]

I do like the idea that everything werid and uncanny and unexplained in history is just Bran fucking up his way around his powers cause he's a time travel wizard who has no idea how to control it and keeps like going back to double down on he lessons.

Mostly cause I've been reading a lot of X-Men comics from the 80s

(I kind of like the subversion of "A Wizard did it" being "he wizard had idea how he did it and keeps trying to clean up the mess he made and it just keeps getting worse.)
posted by The Whelk at 9:23 PM on May 22, 2016 [10 favorites]

It also fits in thematically with everything that everyone has done on this show. This story is full of people doubling down on the unintended consequences of their actions and constantly. making. everything. worse.
posted by Uncle Ira at 9:26 PM on May 22, 2016 [9 favorites]

Bran really is the door that the Walkers need -- and right now it's wide open.

Bran, his door open wide!
posted by homunculus at 9:29 PM on May 22, 2016 [11 favorites]

Bran missed a full season so this season he has to come back as nine different characters.
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:33 PM on May 22, 2016 [7 favorites]

Bran, his door open wide!

Benjen, when the wall fell.
posted by drezdn at 9:36 PM on May 22, 2016 [16 favorites]

It's fun it's like instead of a glib "Well this character must be some kind of time wizard" its "This character is a time wizard and SO. BAD. AT. IT."
posted by The Whelk at 9:37 PM on May 22, 2016 [13 favorites]

Y'er a wizard, Bran-y.
posted by drezdn at 9:39 PM on May 22, 2016 [4 favorites]

I sense some time-travel voodoo getting us out of our White Walker problem.

Probably. I'd guess the show will be cancelled before the books are finished being written, so they're going to have to wrap up the story on 1 seasons notice. Time travel makes that possible at even an episodes notice.

I'm hoping for a cross over ending...

"Bran wogs into the past and brings Rick Grimes into the future to help fight the walkers. Sensing a temporal distortion, The Doctor shows up to lend a hand."
posted by FallowKing at 9:49 PM on May 22, 2016 [3 favorites]

Ok, I thought of one other scene that made me smile before the ending crushed me forever: Brienne accurately calling out Jon Snow's mopiness! Oh Brienne, never change (though let Tormund into your heart).

I, too, am highly suspicious that the Blackfish really has anything going on. I'm guessing Littlefinger is trying to set up Sansa so he and the Knights of the Vale can "rescue" her?
posted by TwoStride at 9:54 PM on May 22, 2016 [3 favorites]

God damn this show Hodor NO

he spent what, 30+ years literally carrying the burden of that untimely warging in his mind?

I sobbed like I haven't since Dany got teased with fake Drogo in the House of the Undying.

However I'm totally here for West Coast Christ Khaleesi dropping her mixtape like literal FIRE battling East Coast Christ Jon "he is risen like a mofo and got a makeover" StarkGaryen freestyle battling for R'hollr's Prince Who Was Promised/Lord of Light contract.

I feel like maybe Wun Wun the giant should arrange a meet-cute "manners makeover" for Tormund so Brienne can see he's not just some dumb savage, but true King Beyond the Walls material.

And then he can kill a few bears and make her a badass wildling cloak/hoodie as a first date gift and be all, "I made you this cloak to warm you up like the warmth I feel for you in my heart and loins Lady Brienne, Queen Spearwife of the North." GOD I SHIP THAT SHIP SO HARDHOME Y'ALL
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 9:56 PM on May 22, 2016 [10 favorites]

Might have been a good idea to warn Bran, "heyyy, so, if you happen to see an Other in a dream, don't go say hi because it can SEE YOU?" He didn't seem surprised that it happened. This seems like pretty basic timewizzard training that apparently he didn't think Bran needed to know?
posted by BungaDunga at 10:37 PM on May 22, 2016 [6 favorites]

Or he knew it was pointless because it had already happened to him when he was Bran. Time travel's tricky that way.
posted by scalefree at 10:42 PM on May 22, 2016 [7 favorites]

.

. = my tears
posted by Fizz at 10:43 PM on May 22, 2016

Hodor looking at the sides of the door as they're broken open and being clawed through. Hodor realizing what is finally happening.
posted by Fizz at 10:44 PM on May 22, 2016 [3 favorites]

HODOR :'(

Also, behold the awesomeness of Sansa. That cloak she was wearing? Had a direwolf on the front, but the back was patterned in scales. TROUT scales. TULLY trout scales.

Girlfriend knows her shit.
posted by KathrynT at 11:30 PM on May 22, 2016 [21 favorites]

Probably. I'd guess the show will be cancelled before the books are finished being written, so they're going to have to wrap up the story on 1 seasons notice. Time travel makes that possible at even an episodes notice.

This is like the most popular and zeitgeist-y TV show in the world at this point and the most popular on HBO by a mile, so I think they'll have exactly as much time as they want to finish their story. I did read that the showrunners' plan is for just two more seasons. They've already been told how the story will end in the books.
posted by armadillo1224 at 11:36 PM on May 22, 2016 [3 favorites]

It’s a crossover hit. It’s not just for fantasy enthusiasts; they’re telling human stories in a fantasy world.
posted by rewil at 11:45 PM on May 22, 2016 [9 favorites]

Anyway, I'd dispute the no-noble-direwolf death thing. Summer died taking on a pack of ice zombies to earn Bran & co. a precious few more seconds. That's noble. Tragic, but still noble.
posted by rewil at 11:46 PM on May 22, 2016 [8 favorites]

So, who's up for a Jorah spinoff? Where he travels the world from village to village, seeking the cure to his secret affliction? Saving the people he meets along the way and righting wrongs? Where every episode ends with this song?
posted by The Tensor at 12:02 AM on May 23, 2016 [7 favorites]

omg Kevin Eldon as Ned Stark

pls make all actors from Jam appear in this show somehow
posted by turbid dahlia at 12:32 AM on May 23, 2016 [7 favorites]

Also, holy crap that red priestess scaring the hell out of Varys! VARYS! That was unexpected and wonderfully unsettling.

The scene cut away immediately, but I really wanted a reaction scene here between Tyrion and Varys, like what the fuck was that? from Tyrion.
posted by JenMarie at 12:36 AM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

Probably. I'd guess the show will be cancelled before the books are finished being written, so they're going to have to wrap up the story on 1 seasons notice. Time travel makes that possible at even an episodes notice.

1) The show will never be cancelled. It's simply a matter of how long they want it to run before ending it on their own terms. Presumably it will end whenever most of the actor's contracts are up as it would become prohibitively expensive to resign them all.

2) "Before the books are finished being written" doesn't actually narrow things down at all since that is infinity time.

It’s a crossover hit. It’s not just for fantasy enthusiasts; they’re telling human stories in a fantasy world.

Flashbacks of science fiction is about ray guns and spaceships! I'm telling human stories!
posted by Justinian at 12:57 AM on May 23, 2016 [4 favorites]

Withnail finally got an acting gig.
posted by 2N2222 at 1:29 AM on May 23, 2016 [17 favorites]

(Having finally actually watched the episode) So Hodor's demise was expertly machined for maximum pathos with the sad synth and is pretty much the first genuinely interesting and clever thing to have happened in the entire series, but I still feel more bad for Summer and the direwolves in general. They couldn't even do her the courtesy of letting her have a moment valiant sacrifice (she killed one skellington), they basically just threw her into a big meat grinder, so fuck them.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:22 AM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

Oh god, now we need a GoT thread where the damn wolves can't be mentioned.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:26 AM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]

Man, I feel really bad for all the book people. There's no way GRRM is going to finish the books after watching the world feel all of his planned major feels already.
posted by mediareport at 4:23 AM on May 23, 2016 [4 favorites]

I mostly enjoyed the jam-packed episode (though the way they're rushing through major reveals - fairies made the ice zombies! Bran made Hodor and might be Tree guy! - really makes me mourn all the wasted time last season) but some of the scenes just didn't make any sense.

If Dany really wanted to cure Jorah, why not, you know, give him a little help? Surely someone around Mereen has some knowledge of that scaly stuff. Surely a couple of companions, some gold and a few horses would help Jorah in his race against time. But, "go cure yourself, bye" fell ridiculously flat after the avowal of love.

Sansa lying to Jon about Littlefinger - why? Seriously, help me out here; I cannot come up with a single good answer to Brienne's question about that. It feels like such an idiot ball move and I can't figure out why on earth Sansa would make it.

We finally got a great scene between Varys and Tyrion, yay! So much fun watching Tyrion attempt to downplay Varys' vicious skepticism and Varys having none of it.

And finally, nothing about the ice zombie attack made sense from a physical point of view, which interfered with the awesomely poignant reveal of the terrifying link between young and old Hodor. It's just bad writing, which creates a scenario where we have to wait for an explanation of why the ice zombies won't just easily overrun the hilltop and immediately find Meera and Bran, which lessens the dramatic force of Hodor's sacrifice considerably.
posted by mediareport at 4:44 AM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]

I just went on a Youtube retrospective of the previous times that Hodor started freaking out and I decided to spare you guys the links

Don't spare us!
posted by mediareport at 4:59 AM on May 23, 2016

And finally, nothing about the ice zombie attack made sense from a physical point of view, which interfered with the awesomely poignant reveal of the terrifying link between young and old Hodor. It's just bad writing, which creates a scenario where we have to wait for an explanation of why the ice zombies won't just easily overrun the hilltop and immediately find Meera and Bran, which lessens the dramatic force of Hodor's sacrifice considerably.

Yeah, that whole thing felt like a scripted sequence in a bad video game. Sort of par for the course for show-stuff, though. Most of the tension in the show tends to be characters doing insanely stupid things, or cooked up drama that doesn't stand up to a little bit of scrutiny. See also, Ramsay's Good Men, Yara running into two dogs and giving up on Theon, anything in Dorne...
posted by codacorolla at 5:07 AM on May 23, 2016

I was singing "Cause this is thriller! Thriller night!" during the caveTree sequence. One zombie was doing that classic Hollywood tilted head lame foot walk thing.
posted by about_time at 5:16 AM on May 23, 2016 [6 favorites]

Sansa lying to Jon about Littlefinger - why? Seriously, help me out here; I cannot come up with a single good answer to Brienne's question about that.

Baelish pointed out that Sansa has no legitimate claim to be Wardness of Winterfell, not with Rickon still alive and potentially Jon. There's a wedge between the two of them now. A small wedge, but it's there. So Sansa wants keeps her own council on where she got the information from.

I suspect Baelish was telling some truth about Riverrun, to divert Sansa from getting too powerful, too quickly and get completely out from under his sway. So yeah, he probably knew about Ramsay or at least heard rumors and put Sansa there. Now that she's rebelling, he's trying to pull her strings in another way.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:18 AM on May 23, 2016 [4 favorites]

Regarding teleportation, maybe they're doing a bad job of indicating the progression of time. From the scene with Sansa, Jon, and their followers talking around a map, it felt like things must have progressed weeks if not a month or two in the last few episodes. So, Littlefinger being all over the place read, to me, more like "we did a bad job indicating how much time is passing" versus "dude is just warping from town to town".
posted by tocts at 5:47 AM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]

it felt like things must have progressed weeks if not a month or two in the last few episodes.

Yeah, I mean, Sansa wasn't whipping up those two new awesome cloaks overnight!
posted by TwoStride at 5:55 AM on May 23, 2016 [11 favorites]

Had a direwolf on the front, but the back was patterned in scales.

So it's sort of like a sartorial mullet.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 5:58 AM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]

which creates a scenario where we have to wait for an explanation of why the ice zombies won't just easily overrun the hilltop and immediately find Meera and Bran

I assume that the Others/Walkers/4 horsemen got what they needed (magic broken, 3 eyed raven dead) and will call off the horde and not pursue.

Hodor just needed to hold the zombies off for long enough for Meera to get some distance on them.
posted by sparklemotion at 6:07 AM on May 23, 2016

Hodor just needed to hold the zombies off for long enough for Meera to get some distance on them.

That makes no sense based on what we were shown, 'cause no way Hodor should have been able to hold that door against so many.

I'm ok with accepting the broad stroke of "Hodor (and everyone else) managed to delay and hold off the horde long enough to Meera and Bran to escape out into the snow" but it really made not a lick of sense in terms of what we saw.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:14 AM on May 23, 2016

Yeah, I would have much preferred for there to be a couple of dozen ice zombies rather than two thousand. It took me out of the feeling of peril and into the feeling of watching a videogame, as someone said above. There have been a few battle scenes in this show over the years where they seemed to increase the enemy force by an order of magnitude to make things seem even more perilous, and it generally doesn't work for me.

Great episode, though. That Sansa scene was really satisfying.
posted by dfan at 6:28 AM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

The zombies weren't on any specific mission, and got slowed/distracted any time they got their hands on a body to eat. See, e.g., Summer and Leaf.

So, the door being heavy, and Hodor being heavy slowed them, and then they had the largest body of them all to chow down on.

I bet they weren't even finished with Hodor by the time the Night King called them off.
posted by sparklemotion at 6:29 AM on May 23, 2016

oh great, now you've given the image of Hodor being chowed down on. Gonna be a great Monday!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:41 AM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

Definitely agree that they go overboard with too many zombies for cheap suspense, and it makes the escape strain credulity a bit.

So if the COTF created the Others, is that what brought about the interminable winters as well?
posted by skewed at 6:52 AM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

Regarding teleportation, maybe they're doing a bad job of indicating the progression of time. From the scene with Sansa, Jon, and their followers talking around a map, it felt like things must have progressed weeks if not a month or two in the last few episodes. So, Littlefinger being all over the place read, to me, more like "we did a bad job indicating how much time is passing" versus "dude is just warping from town to town".

Tyrion also says something about it being two months since they negotiated the truce with the slavers. Contacting the slavers and getting them to travel to Mereen for the negotiations would've taken some time too. Most of the story lines have had a couple time jumps like this, but they've happened at odd spots and they're not really underlined when they happen.

Things get confusing when they cut between story lines running on different timescales. (Premiere covered maybe 24 hours at the Wall, but Jaime's boat makes it back to King's Landing.) But it seems that the story lines that share characters (mostly) have a consistent passage of time.
posted by cnelson at 6:58 AM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

At least we didn't have to hear him whimpering like we did with Summer.
posted by sparklemotion at 6:58 AM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

Hodor.

So, the "Bran can maybe change the past" hint a few episodes ago paid off here.

Was Bran also in the past in his "fool of a Took" solo vision in which he caught the eye of Sauron the Night King? I assumed so when watching it, but in retrospect it makes more sense if it's current. Anyway: the Night King apparently also has some visionary powers.

I got a strong whiff of Aliens from the zombies-overrun-the-cavern chase; right down to the "you always were an asshole" grenade.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 7:36 AM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

Also also: if Bran (and we) want to know what's in Ned's tower, he's going to have to go visioning there alone without the Raven to advise him. More meddling-with-the-past?
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 7:37 AM on May 23, 2016

The play: the show again reminding us -- as it did previously with the reveal of Ned's "honorable" defeat of Ser Dayne -- that the story depends strongly on the teller.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 7:49 AM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

More like what Ned was trying to do was very honorable, but it was also extremely foolish.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:53 AM on May 23, 2016

sparklemotion: And legit zombie horde scary bits!

This just became the best zombie show on TV these days (damning [Fear] The Walking Dead with faint praise).


turbid dahlia: Summer? Seriously? Ugh.

Uncle Ira: I'm seeing the direwolves as metaphors for whatever goals and hopes the Stark children had when they were young.

I am so very dense. I just realized that in addition to the Dire Wolves representing the future the Stark children should have had, Summer died fighting ice zombies who want an endless winter.


The Whelk: I do like the idea that everything werid and uncanny and unexplained in history is just Bran fucking up his way around his powers cause he's a time travel wizard who has no idea how to control it

So, Legends of Tomorrow-level competence? Bran seems a bit better than Rip Hunter, but really I just hate that guy.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:57 AM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

Brienne was great, even with her limited lines. "[Jon] seems trustworthy. A bit brooding, perhaps. I suppose that's understandable, considering."

And Tormund's heavy sigh of infatuation ... you're killing me!
posted by filthy light thief at 8:00 AM on May 23, 2016 [9 favorites]

Also, now you know we have a WightHodor reappearance to "look forward" to at some point. Sniff/sigh.
posted by alleycat01 at 8:00 AM on May 23, 2016

Oh no. Oh no no no.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 8:04 AM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

The Tensor: So, who's up for a Jorah spinoff? Where he travels the world from village to village, seeking the cure to his secret affliction?

Warrior, heal thyself. (Good thing horses don't catch or spread greyscale ... or do they?)
posted by filthy light thief at 8:07 AM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

alleycat01: Also, now you know we have a WightHodor reappearance to "look forward" to at some point. Sniff/sigh.

Maybe Bran will level up and warg into WightHodor (or just get stabbed by WH, because this is GoT and that's the brutal world in which they live).
posted by filthy light thief at 8:08 AM on May 23, 2016

All of the comments Euron Greyjoy made about Daenerys were like clues given on $20,000 Pyramid for the category "Things You Say Before Getting Murdered by Dragons."
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:31 AM on May 23, 2016 [23 favorites]

All of the comments Euron Greyjoy made about Daenerys were like clues gives on $20,000 Pyramid for the category "Things You Say Before Getting Murdered by Dragons."

Jesus, there was so much happening in this episode, we even learned "What is dead may never die" really means. Helluva way to elect a leader.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:34 AM on May 23, 2016 [4 favorites]

Good news (for Euron's well-being): he has no ships. How long does it take to build a fleet?

Aeron: They stole our best ships.
[An extra, played off-screen by filthy light thief]: *muttering* I think you mean they stole all our ships.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:37 AM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

How long does it take to build a fleet?

Yeah, who's that going to work out? It takes a while to build a ship and considering a large number of your sailors left, that can't be good.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:10 AM on May 23, 2016

It seemed like the episode ended with Bran still warged into the past without von Sydow to bring him back. Maybe he's stuck there indefinitely haunting the past while Meera drags his comatose body around in the present.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 9:11 AM on May 23, 2016

I added this to the other thread...

From the EW recap (emphasis is mine because daaaaamn):

Suddenly Theon’s evil uncle Euron enters. You’ll recall he secretly killed King Balon on that rainy bridge a couple episodes back. Euron appeals to the Iron Born by slamming the Balon’s failed wars, promising to build the largest fleet of ships ever, and repeatedly mocks Theon’s lack of genitals. I guess we should all be grateful our political system would never support a candidate who uses a election debate to bully his opponents and brag about his junk.

and

Meereen: The insurgency has paused. Tyrion is still in the spin zone and looking for a way for Dany to get the credit. So he summons a Red Priestess named Kinvara to help spread the word of the Dragon Queen’s greatness. This seems risky. The last leader to try to enlist the church for political muscle was Cersei and that didn’t work out too well.

Kinvara could be Melisandre’s cousin. She’s just as creepy, and likewise has a red dress, distracting boobs, and an ultra-confident fanatical glaze. She’s even wearing one of those black chokers and we wonder how old she really is.

She declares Dany is “the one who was promised.” Okay, so this refers to the Lord of Light’s prophesied figure in human form, the reincarnation of a guy named Azor Ahai — a warrior who long ago defeated an army of the White Walkers. Melisandre thought Stannis Baratheon was the one who was promised, and that seems even sillier now than it did in season 2. With Jon resurrected, Melisandre’s now thinking Jon is the Chosen One. But now here comes along this other cocky Red Priestess who says it’s Dany. Personally I’d bet on the girl with the dragons.

and

Either way, as fans pointed out on Twitter: We now realize that every time Hodor has said his name he was describing his own eventual death. Recently I rewatched the Thrones pilot and there’s so much sadness now in those early moments, knowing the tragedies that will befall so many characters. With Hodor, our knowledge changes our perspective on the character rather radically without changing the positive things we feel about him.

posted by zarq at 9:14 AM on May 23, 2016 [4 favorites]

It seemed pretty lame that no one saw them stealing a hundred ships. I know that they were preoccupied by the drowninginauguration ceremony but someone should have noticed. Are there two separate ocean fronts?
posted by octothorpe at 9:30 AM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

More than that - she has a fuck-ton of support. That's not just Yara and Theon launching all the boats - Aeron didn't say "they set our ships afloat, let's swim after them," he said "they stole our [best] ships."

Joining in the "innit it on the nose, a qualified woman getting upstaged by a loud outsider who makes dick jokes" - it's not a one-sided contest, where everyone was on Team Euron with his casual proclamation that he'd get the foreign lady's ... dragons.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:43 AM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

" It takes a while to build a ship and considering a large number of your sailors left, that can't be good."

I swear to God we had a metafilter thread within the last year or so about how it takes longer to spin and weave the sails than it takes to build the boat itself. (Cannot for the life of me find it, even searching likely tags.) Euron does at least mention the sails as needing to be woven, but I sort-of scoffed at the idea he could get sails up as fast as he could get boats built. Especially not for a THOUSAND SHIPS. There is not that much raw fiber on the Iron Islands.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:50 AM on May 23, 2016 [15 favorites]

This one probably.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 9:54 AM on May 23, 2016 [4 favorites]

Euron does at least mention the sails as needing to be woven, but I sort-of scoffed at the idea he could get sails up as fast as he could get boats built. Especially not for a THOUSAND SHIPS. There is not that much raw fiber on the Iron Islands.

That and his supporters want to get busy sailing and raiding. Having to build boats FROM SCRATCH should cool a lot of heels and start'em thinking "Maybe Yara was the way to go, at least I'd be sailing rather than working under Euron the asshole who thinks we can shit ships left and right. "
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:56 AM on May 23, 2016 [4 favorites]

There is not that much raw fiber on the Iron Islands.

Plus, how much flax have they been reaving? They can't grow it there -- not only are their words "We Do Not Sow," they just don't have the geography or arable land for it. I don't think you even CAN ret flax in seawater, and to do it properly in fresh water takes months.

why are fantasy series always so utterly unconcerned with textile production
posted by KathrynT at 9:59 AM on May 23, 2016 [51 favorites]

I thought the kingsmoot thing combined with the ship stealing was to show that while the old men with Power weren't going to pick Yara all the young men who'd done the actual fighting were. Basically who the fuck cares about the salt throne if we have all the ships?
posted by French Fry at 10:04 AM on May 23, 2016 [10 favorites]

I don't think you even CAN ret flax in seawater, and to do it properly in fresh water takes months.

I know nothing about textile production (too many fantasy novels!) but there is a tidal estuary and salt marsh on the north shore of Long Island called Flax Pond. In the late 1700's and early 1800's, people used to ret their flax there for a couple of weeks, then leave it on the ground to air dry before turning it into linen. It's now owned by the state, and used as a marine lab by researchers.
posted by zarq at 10:12 AM on May 23, 2016 [7 favorites]

Oh wow! Flax Pond wasn't always a saltwater tidal estuary! When it was used to ret flax, it was only a fresh water marsh.

Flax Pond is a 146-acre salt marsh in the Village Old Field on Long Island's North Shore. Like other salt marshes, most of Flax Pond is flooded by seawater at high tide, and exposed to the air at low tide. The marsh lies in a low area between two coastal headlands that are part of the Harbor Hill Moraine. The moraine is an irregular line of hills composed of a huge accumulation of soil, sand and boulders that forms the North Shore of Long Island and was deposited by a huge continental glacier approximately 21,000 years ago. The pond was named after the flax which was grown in the area and processed at what was then a fresh water marsh. After being soaked in the marsh for about two weeks, the flax was made into linen. In the late 1700's, the domestic flax market was no longer profitable due to competition from Russia. Therefore, it was decided to try to make the marsh profitable as a shellfishing area. In 1803, an inlet was dug connecting the marsh to Long Island Sound, creating the necessary conditions for the formation of a salt marsh. Salt marshes can only form in flat areas protected from wave action which become flooded at high tide.

Had no idea. I thought it had formed naturally.
posted by zarq at 10:16 AM on May 23, 2016 [10 favorites]

Give it up for everyone's favorite fighting Kraken... Yara Greyjoy.
posted by drezdn at 10:21 AM on May 23, 2016 [5 favorites]

.
Hodor
RIP one of the few characters (the only one?) in this show that you could just like without having to worry about what kinds of horrible twists they might later take to make you regret it.
posted by Golem XIV at 10:23 AM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

"This one probably."
Yes! Thank you, paper c!
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:32 AM on May 23, 2016

Forgive me for posting this in both threads, but...

I appreciate all of the careful analysis of sail weaving, lumber availability, etc. But my question about the shipbuilding was altogether more fundamental: if you were perpetual also-rans in the quest for world power and had the material and human resources to quickly build and staff a thousand ships, why didn't you do that already, you knuckleheads?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:33 AM on May 23, 2016 [11 favorites]

Okay, when Kinvara (the other Red Priestess) tells Varys that she knows the voice that spoke to him in the flames, and that "we serve the same queen" but goes out of her way not to mention Danerys by name, that seemed pretty clear to me that she's referring to whoever Varys ultimately serves -- i.e., not Dany -- and that there's some high priestess or Red Goddess or I suppose secular queen or something that Kinvara means by "the same queen."

I went and googled up the dialogue just now; it could be clunky scriptwriting, I suppose, but her threatening of Varys, reminding him where he comes from and who made him, and then reassuring him that they serve "the same queen" makes me very, very suspicious that it was a deliberate elision.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:38 AM on May 23, 2016 [4 favorites]

Sadly, the most likely explanation for any pressing Iron Islands questions is "Dorne-level worldbuilding"
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:39 AM on May 23, 2016 [5 favorites]

one of the few characters (the only one?) in this show that you could just like without having to worry about what kinds of horrible twists they might later take to make you regret it.

Hodor's much more of a "what horrible things will happen to this innocent" character. Bran warging into him always had somewhat horrific undertones of taking away Hodor's self-determination -- in particular the moment at Craster's Keep in which Hodor awakes from being warged and looks down in horror and despair at his bloody hands. The closing of the loop here reveals that Hodor never had any control of his own destiny; he's always been ridden by Bran.

(And what a great performance to make us care so much about a monosyllabic character.)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 10:44 AM on May 23, 2016 [14 favorites]

Also: the Iron Islanders at the Kingsmoot seemed awfully fickle. One moment all "yay Yara", the next so easily swayed by Euron's dickswinging. Although I did think his "yeah, I killed him, so what" was fully in keeping with the "pay the iron price" philosophy that we'd seen Balon spouting so often.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 10:48 AM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]

The long shots of the Kingsmoot show a large subset of the attending people stone-faced and unmoved by Euron, silent and not raising their hands or otherwise visibly reacting while all of the huzzahs about his dick and his promises might seem unanimous based on the sound.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:50 AM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

By comparison the Spanish Armada was 130 ships (depending on how you count) and crewed by 55,000 soldiers and sailors. 28 of the ships (including 20 galleons) were built specifically for the campaign.
posted by humanfont at 10:53 AM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

(And what a great performance to make us care so much about a monosyllabic character.)

Well, technically he was disyllabic, so let's not give him too much credit.
posted by dfan at 10:57 AM on May 23, 2016 [8 favorites]

Iron Islanders being EXTRMELEY fickle and rash to action feels like a very iron islandy trait.
posted by The Whelk at 10:57 AM on May 23, 2016 [4 favorites]

if you were perpetual also-rans in the quest for world power and had the material and human resources to quickly build and staff a thousand ships, why didn't you do that already, you knuckleheads?

1.) Because they don't actually have the resources.
2.) Because, as a people, "world power" wasn't really their desire. They want to be able to raid enough to keep their families fed and happy -- but you don't need a thousand ships to do that.

The impression that I get is that The Iron Islands are pretty isolationist, but Balon Greyjoy had a head full of lofty ideas that made him reach beyond his grasp. After that, it was a question of revenge/getting over the humiliation of that defeat that drove Balon to try again while the War of the 5 Kings was happening, but I don't think that Pyke ever really recovered.

The Iron Islands in a lot of ways remind me of North Korea, in that you have a military dictatorship that isn't even all that good militarily, but the powers that be keep directing resources to shore up a military that could never, really, compete. I mean -- did we ever see a single shot of Pyke that didn't make it look like a total shithole? They couldn't even build proper bridges in their own castle.

Yara knew that what the Ironborn needed was to spend time rebuilding and stop wasting men and ships on the mainland. She could have, in a a couple of decades, built Pyke up into a force to be reckoned with. Euron... does not know this, and the comparisons to Trump are apt to the point that I have to keep reminding myself that these scenes were in the can before the current US presidential campaign went bonkers.

I think it will be interesting to see where Yara and Theon go next. Maybe to go help Dany, in exchange for some portion of the West coast of Westeros? Maybe to try to establish a foothold on Dragonstone (now that Stannis is out of the way...)? Will they try to unseat Euron? Or just let the hawks in Pyke burn themselves out?
posted by sparklemotion at 10:58 AM on May 23, 2016 [8 favorites]

Yeah, I think Theon was right, Yara has been there and is well known and incredibly respected. If Euron is willing to kill the king to get what he wants, then it doesn't take a genius to realize he'll cheerfully kill any other Iron Born for any damn reason he wants. No wonder Yara was able to make off while a huge crew and the best ships..
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:01 AM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

a very iron islandy trait.

If you wanna come by later, I'm going to be making cocktails and singing about "iron islandy" things to the tune of "Islands in the Stream." Bring ice and maybe chips.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:02 AM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]

Sadly, the most likely explanation for any pressing Iron Islands questions is "Dorne-level worldbuilding"

We have a winner, folks!

I mean, to be clear, I did enjoy a lot of this episode, and I'm not opposed to the Iron Islands having some interesting impact on the story. However, as it currently stands, anything that happens there seems to basically follow the logic of, "we've got 2 seasons after this, and this needs to be in place, so just have someone state out loud what's going to happen and move on".

For as much as it's obvious that they're skipping over stuff that will be (or would have been?) more detailed in future books, I feel like they still should be cutting more deeply from GRRM's summaries. Even introducing Uncle Greyjoy was a major mistake. Balon was old. Just let him die, let Yara be suspicious of Theon's convenient return, and then have it end with Theon finally showing loyalty to her. We don't need another major-ish player that's clearly going to be dashing through the motions -- I fear he's going to end up being Ramsay 2 ("This Time, It's Even More Boring").
posted by tocts at 11:12 AM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

On a more spidery note: We'd heard the story of Varys' voice in the flames before.

We never did find out what happened to that sorcerer.
posted by sparklemotion at 11:13 AM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]

You mean what did Varys do to the sorcerer after receiving him in the box? I don't think it matters, specifically.

Generally speaking, we know good and god damn well what happened to him.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:23 AM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

Generally speaking, we know good and god damn well what happened to him.

Varys mailed him around with kingdom, with orders for people to take pictures with it and send them to him .
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:24 AM on May 23, 2016 [6 favorites]

Varys mailed him around with kingdom, with orders for people to take pictures with it and send them to him .

HBO corporate synergy!
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 11:48 AM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

Varys mailed him around with kingdom, with orders for people to take pictures with it and send them to him .

And then, at the end of the series, when everything has fallen into ruin and Varys is dead, Major Valchek will get an envelope containing yet another pic of the sorcerer and shake his head, missing Varys.
posted by rmd1023 at 11:54 AM on May 23, 2016 [6 favorites]

She could just sail off a short distance and wait for the kings moot to break up and the iron born to go off to chop down trees. Then while they are busy return with the fleet, murder the pretender and claim the salt throne. I mean she's got the best ships and loyal crews.
posted by humanfont at 12:18 PM on May 23, 2016

Sansa lying to Jon about Littlefinger - why? Seriously, help me out here; I cannot come up with a single good answer to Brienne's question about that.

One theory was listed above (Sansa holding it in reserve against Jon / keeping her own counsel).

My original idea was that she didn't want Jon to use Baelish's army. If she was like "Oh I heard it from Littlefinger who has this big army he says can join us" Jon might have sought them out, and clearly she doesn't want that. Telling him has no benefit if she genuinely doesn't want Baelish's help.
posted by thefoxgod at 12:50 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]

Sansa has no reason to trust Littlefinger; if she allies with him, what faith can she have that he won't pull an "oh hi Ramsay, brought your bride back for you" defection once they reach Winterfell? Above all else she knows now that Littlefinger serves only his own interests; certainly not hers.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 1:09 PM on May 23, 2016 [5 favorites]

I also think she doesn't fully trust that Jon is smart enough or canny enough to handle sensitive political issues. He's a lot like Ned Stark after all.
posted by French Fry at 1:21 PM on May 23, 2016 [11 favorites]

Yeah, thats part of it too I think. I don't think she trusted Jon to handle Littlefinger, and since Jon was sitting there at the time going "We need more men!", mentioning the existence of an army that is claiming to support them would be very tempting, even though Sansa understands how many strings are attached.
posted by thefoxgod at 1:26 PM on May 23, 2016 [3 favorites]

Stark men are good for brooding and wolfing around and executing people with a grim sense of duty, but you really do need to keep them away from the Littlefingers of the world
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:27 PM on May 23, 2016 [19 favorites]

Jorah In Search Of Lotion
posted by turbid dahlia at 1:34 PM on May 23, 2016 [8 favorites]

I can still feel it.

You guys I keep thinking of this line and worrying that Sansa really is pregnant.
posted by sparklemotion at 2:24 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'd kind of love it if the first thing Sansa does when she gets to civilization is order up a big ol' pitcher of moon tea and chug it in one go. "Well, that's taken care of. Time to conquer the North."
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:31 PM on May 23, 2016 [5 favorites]

God, fuckin' Hodor man. I'm still trying to sort out exactly the set of feelings of empathetic horror I had at that sequence, the idea of a young man being overwhelmed and broken by the sudden incursion of the psychic weight of the rest of his life and horrific death being thrust out of nowhere into his mind, and the idea that in some sense Hodor probably carried that knowledge with him for the next several decades, even if only as a repressed shadow of awareness.
posted by cortex at 2:46 PM on May 23, 2016 [5 favorites]

Tea, Moon, Iced.

But here's a question though... does she know about moon tea? She's got no maester or septa to advise her. Brienne's sex education is probably less comprehensive than hers was. I could see Shae mentioning it at some point, but I can't imagine that Cersei would have in those few brief moments when Cersei was being nice to Sansa.

Littlefinger would know, but she doesn't trust him. But the rest of the dudes around her? Probably not.
posted by sparklemotion at 2:53 PM on May 23, 2016

Come to think of it, there's gotta be moon tea in Mole's Town. Where she just was.
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:57 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

Sansa has no reason to trust Littlefinger

And yet she trusts his information completely enough to send off her most valuable knight. That's part of the reason her motives seem incoherent here.

So Sansa wants keeps her own council on where she got the information from.

Yeah, I suppose I understand that Littlefinger's "well, it's your half-brother's army" drove a wedge between Sansa and Jon, if you accept that Sansa would start being so crudely calculating against Jon so soon after reuniting with him. There's a moment at the strategy table, too, where she asserts herself as a Stark with a stronger claim than Jon's. But it felt like one of those cheap "let's create drama by having characters who love one another withhold information for no good reason" moments that Buffy used to specialize in. I just don't trust these writers much anymore.
posted by mediareport at 3:05 PM on May 23, 2016

Meera killing one of the recognizable ice zombie leaders was interesting, too; I guess that was a dragonglass spear? Would have been neat to see Summer involved in that one.

Funny how there were still 4 leaders after Jon killed one at HardHome. Ice zombies must promote from within.
posted by mediareport at 3:10 PM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

No Joe or Debra Outside-hire for the Night King.
posted by drezdn at 3:18 PM on May 23, 2016

they have to post the opening for legal reasons, but you know they're just gonna promote a goddamn wight in the end
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:19 PM on May 23, 2016 [19 favorites]

they have to post the opening for legal reasons, but you know they're just gonna promote a goddamn wight in the end

I kind of want to know more about the White Walker reproductive cycle. Because we know they take babies and convert them, but we never see more than for Walkers at a time.

Is there like a Walker daycare center? Do the babies go through some accelerated aging to replace a fallen leader? Do they turn the babies into clones of the original four?

In this scene, the Night's King turns the baby -- maybe he's the original and the only one who can turn them?

Maybe all of the walkers are clones of the Night's King? And the long haired ones are just older versions?
posted by sparklemotion at 3:37 PM on May 23, 2016

in the future, people will look back on Game of Thrones as a show about clones and time travel
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:39 PM on May 23, 2016 [5 favorites]

Tormund's burning love for Brienne [...] awesomesauce.
Hell yes Torienne/Brimund is SO happening! (and Sansa has cottoned too!) Oh god she's so awkward the whole meeting long, NICELY done!

Sooo, who was the human that was turned the Night King? Anyone important, a Stark maybe?
That would be EXCELLENT if true, for the whole Starks/Winterfell/North mystical dynamic

Am in awe of the flax retting critique KathrynT et al, so great to be amongst People who Know Things

Also, was the Hall of Faces giving anyone else raging trypophobia??

("That's what I do, I grow beards and rock brocade" le sigh)
posted by runincircles at 3:47 PM on May 23, 2016 [2 favorites]

omg Kevin Eldon as Ned Stark

Ahem... The Actor Kevin Eldon as Ned Stark
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 4:02 PM on May 23, 2016 [4 favorites]

But it felt like one of those cheap "let's create drama by having characters who love one another withhold information for no good reason" moments that Buffy used to specialize in.

She had to convince him to fight for their home. And he's already been killed one for doing the right thing, like Ned, so I can sort of understand Sansa holding off, even if I disagree with it.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:14 PM on May 23, 2016

I loved the caricature of Ned Stark in the play as a credulous buffoon because he sort of was.
posted by octothorpe at 5:42 PM on May 23, 2016 [4 favorites]

What I like even more is that the portrayal of him that way is obviously how he's perceived by the general population of Westeros. So no only did he lose the game while he was alive but he's lost his legacy after death too.
posted by octothorpe at 5:53 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

So this whole time, Hodor was short for "HOLY FUCKING SHIT"...I did not see that coming.
posted by uosuaq at 6:22 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

The play was in Braavos. I'd imagine the locals are seeing it as something about those Westeros people, tut tut you know what they're like.

Lampooning the rich and powerful is a tradition as old as theatre, and I'm not sure the audience would be seeing it as much more than Saturday Night Live (musical guest: Coldplay); prominent names doing things that maybe might be connected to what the rumourmongers are saying.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 7:20 PM on May 23, 2016

Hodor.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:15 PM on May 23, 2016

I've read a few interpretations of Hs last moments, and how they messed up his head - but I didn't interpret the cause to be the warging (or a general "overloading") as it was that he was forced to share the experience of being physically torn apart, to literally experience a death that he may have even essentially known to be his own. I know there has been mention of the dangers of warging, but those warnings were about dangers to the warg-er, as well as the warg-ee.
posted by Jack Karaoke at 8:33 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

Hodor.
posted by Jack Karaoke at 8:33 PM on May 23, 2016

Tickets for my next gig of my Doors tribute band, Hold the Doors have tripled in sales!
posted by juiceCake at 9:32 PM on May 23, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'd like to drop in at this point to be some flavor of feminist killjoy for a sec? I loved Sansa confronting Littlefinger. But I was pretty disappointed that the writers didn't have her keep going just a little longer and make him squirm more while she was owning it.

Because WTF, we have to endure watching Ramsey's Torture Porn Channel and an outsized level of objectification and sexual violence against women in this show in general, but the writers tap out after one and a half uncomfortable minutes of hearing a past-tense acknowledgement of it?
posted by desuetude at 11:21 PM on May 23, 2016 [16 favorites]

Yep, totally legit point.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:42 AM on May 24, 2016 [1 favorite]

Fucking NOdor. Dear Bran: please pull together your time-traveling, destiny-warping ass and get on with undoing the events that lead to the deaths of everyone dumb enough to take care of you.
posted by gingerest at 6:21 AM on May 24, 2016 [4 favorites]

Hodor only pawn in game of life.
posted by Strange Interlude at 6:43 AM on May 24, 2016 [7 favorites]

One other thing that I loved was during Euron's drowning/coronation was how supremely unconcerned everyone was that maybe this time the gnarled priest dude had held someone under water a leeeetle too long and he wasn't coming back... I guess it's also very Iron Islands, but it was hilarious to me and I think I could have watched them all standing around a drowned corpse and being all "well, huh" even longer.
posted by TwoStride at 10:01 AM on May 24, 2016 [4 favorites]

From the priest's lines about salt water filling his lungs, the dying and living again bits, and the general Iron Bornness of the Iron Born, I assumed that being fully drowned and then recovering was part of being chosen by the Sea God to be King, and that the occasional permanent death was an accepted and even desirable outcome.
posted by gingerest at 10:51 AM on May 24, 2016 [5 favorites]

Yara knew that what the Ironborn needed was to spend time rebuilding and stop wasting men and ships on the mainland. She could have, in a a couple of decades, built Pyke up into a force to be reckoned with. Euron... does not know this, and the comparisons to Trump are apt to the point that I have to keep reminding myself that these scenes were in the can before the current US presidential campaign went bonkers.

The actor playing Euron tweeted this, "Dear ladies & gentlemen, please remember...Euron Greyjoy is a fictional character... Donald Trump isn't!!! Have a great day ✌ #GameofThrones."

I wonder if Asabaek's getting messages from fans about the similarities. Like sparklemotion said above, I don't think the timing works out for there to be any creative intent.
posted by gladly at 11:13 AM on May 24, 2016 [5 favorites]

Yes, that the occasional permanent death was an accepted and even desirable outcome.

My read was a bit different at first. I was convinced Aeron was in cahoots with Yara to kill Euron, and the cutting between Euron's ceremony and Yara's prepping of the ships was intended to underscore how in charge Yara actually was.

Re-watching, it doesn't fully make sense that way (seeing how Theon and Yara seem to "escape" via a cave), but I still expected Euron to die on the shore and everyone to just kinda shrug and shuffle off on the first watch.
posted by rocketman at 11:36 AM on May 24, 2016 [2 favorites]

Some of my what-ifs:

#1
Okay, so I have read a lot of theories how Bran could be the Bloodraven himself (future!Bran), in which case he teaches himself, right?

BUT WHAT IF — since Bran was seen by the Night King as a child, this is exactly why he goes to find him and kill him as an old man? Which is why the Bloodraven was so sure that his time has come? Because of all this timeloop crazy shit? He's just waiting for his time to die?

#2
Also, it's interesting that while Melisandre's bet is Jon, fellow red priestess Kinvara's is Daenerys. What if it's not that The Lord of Light is fucking with them with these different (conflicting) prophecies, and what if there are no mistakes in interpretation (sans Stannis).

WHAT IF they are BOTH right, that it's going to be a combined effort? That it won't necessarily be a showdown of Ice vs Fire, but an alliance of some sort? After all, it's a SONG of Ice and Fire, yes? And they both have been reborn.

—

And not a what-if but goddamn I hope they talk about Brienne's Oathkeeper being fashioned out of Ned Stark's Ice. Sigh. Is the other half of the sword in King's Landing still?
posted by pleasebekind at 12:26 PM on May 24, 2016

Mod note: A few comments deleted; please don't bring book stuff in here. It's fine to offer that people can Mefimail you about some specific thing if they want the book angle on it, but we have a critical mass of people who don't want to hear any book stuff at all, and that's why we have the two separate types of thread.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:37 PM on May 24, 2016 [4 favorites]

Re: flax etc: Did not expect to be learning about the history of textile fabrication on Long Island in a Game of Thrones thread, but life is interesting like that sometimes. I live just a few miles from Old Field these days; might have to take a field trip to check out Flax Pond.
posted by ocherdraco at 7:03 PM on May 24, 2016 [2 favorites]

A map of where everyone is at the moment.
posted by unliteral at 7:30 PM on May 24, 2016 [3 favorites]

#1 Okay, so I have read a lot of theories how Bran could be the Bloodraven himself (future!Bran), in which case he teaches himself, right?

What if: the Three Eyed Raven (I'm pretty sure Bloodraven is a bookterm) is an aspect of the Night's King himself?

I'm thinking that when the Children stabbed long-blonde-and-flowing in the chest, they stabbed right through his body, bonding him with the tree, somehow. This split him into two avatars, one, the Night's King, intended as a weapon, and two, the Three Eyed Raven, with the power to control him.

But something went wrong with The Long Night, and it was harder for the Children to control the Walkers than they had planned. But they managed, with the help of Bran the Builder, to get things under control -- as long as the Three Eyed Raven could stay on top of things in the tree.

But T3ER was getting old, and his power was waning. He knew that he needed a replacement and Bran was a powerful enough warg to do the job. He just needed to be trained. So, The Night's King goal was to kill T3ER in order to free himself of whatever magic was holding him north of the wall, and T3ER's goal was to train Bran before that happened.

Depending on how timey-wimey you want to get with things, you could speculate that everything that happened up until Bran getting to the tree was orchestrated by T3ER to get Bran up there in time. You could start with, maybe, the Mad King (warg him crazy enough to start setting people on fire), and Rhaegar (make him fall in love with an inconvenient girl) to kick off Robert's Rebellion. Lay low for a few years while you work on making Lysa Arryn crazy enough to go along with Littlefinger's plan to kill her husband. That puts King Robert on the road to Winterfell in search of a Hand, while Jaime gives you a hand with putting Bran into the coma that you need to contact him.

But, things get messy -- maybe T3ER didn't expect Bran to be crippled, or to spend so much time waylaid around Winterfell hiding from Theon. Maybe Jojen and Meera took longer to find him than they needed. Either way, Bran was late, and there wasn't enough time. So T3ER tried to rush things, but left out important details, so Bran made a fatal error and it all came crashing down.
posted by sparklemotion at 8:02 PM on May 24, 2016 [3 favorites]

What would happen if Bran were to warg into the Night's King?

(Can he? The show hasn't made the rules of warging very clear; is it into-familiars-only -- Bran's direwolf, Orell's eagle, and arguably Hodor is also a familar -- or is Bran powerful enough to warg into anything? And the NK has touched him in a vision so they do have some degree of familiarity...)
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 7:35 AM on May 25, 2016 [1 favorite]

I'd imagine it's a contest of mentaI will, which Bran would handily lose at this point.

Edit: my phone auto corrected bran to bean, which I think is a better name.
posted by codacorolla at 8:11 AM on May 25, 2016 [1 favorite]

Can he? The show hasn't made the rules of warging very clear

From Jojen and Meera's reaction the first time that Bran wargs into Hodor, I got the impression that warging into a human is pretty extraordinary. While Hodor was no ordinary human (for reasons that we understand now), I think it's still clear that Bran is no ordinary warg.

Bran is untrained, but stronger than he knows. Maybe, if things hadn't gone tits up, T3ER could have trained him to warg into a Walker, maybe even the Night's King. But now he'll need to figure that out on his own.
posted by sparklemotion at 8:23 AM on May 25, 2016

From Jojen and Meera's reaction the first time that Bran wargs into Hodor, I got the impression that warging into a human is pretty extraordinary.

The T3ER also seemed surprised and/or confused about Ned hearing Bran call his name at that Tower. It was like Raven started to get a grasp of how powerful Bran is and could be, and the prospect was frightening in terms of what sort of havoc could about because of that power.

Man, that look and tone of voice that T3ER answered with when Bran asked him if he was ready. That simple "No" was infused with so much sadness and regret for Bran.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:39 AM on May 25, 2016

Did my husband-including rewatch; cried at the end again. My husband's response to the end of the episode and Hodor's death was, "Huh. Interesting."

I MIGHT BE MARRIED TO A SOCIOPATH, Y'ALL.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:45 AM on May 25, 2016 [5 favorites]

The Sad State of Game of Thrones’ Direwolves
posted by octothorpe at 10:01 AM on May 25, 2016 [1 favorite]

That article has a book-spoiler that fills my heart with gladness.
posted by sparklemotion at 10:22 AM on May 25, 2016 [3 favorites]

This ep had some great things in it (Sansa bossed up, Hodor tears) but most of it felt sooo Hollywood to me. All exposition, quick quick, get to the point, move through the plot. And not a lot of respect for what came before, I think.

Arya is a total badass! No wait she cares and is asking questions and laughing at the play so it turns out she is very confused about how being a Faceless Man works. Why is she allowed to keep hanging around?

Jorah you saved my life! (Well, no, he just showed up at a particular moment which, I guess, emboldened you to do something that you could have done anyway?) Oh m'lady I must go because I am a threat to you. No I command you to save yourself I found a LOOPHOLE lol lol lol. Sad tho.

Euron has this amazing plan to, uh, build a fleet for some foreign army nobody has heard of but, hey, sounds great, that's our jam, man. Except for the hundreds of men who aren't on board. How did he get chosen again?

Bran discovers that the Children created the White Walkers about 5 minutes before he does the dumb thing and 3 seasons of anticipation falls in on itself w/ 2000 zombies along for the ride. Chop chop, move it along!

Meh. Sorry had to vent :)

Sansa being a badass is what I'm here for, though, 100%. And, actually, I was a big fan of Jorah actually saying "I love you". Saying what you feel is rad.
posted by wemayfreeze at 11:08 AM on May 25, 2016 [2 favorites]

Jorah you saved my life! (Well, no, he just showed up at a particular moment which, I guess, emboldened you to do something that you could have done anyway?)

Jorah saved her at the fighting pits by spearing a Son-of-the-Harpy that was approaching behind her.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:16 AM on May 25, 2016 [2 favorites]

Jorah saved her at the fighting pits by spearing a Son-of-the-Harpy that was approaching behind her.

Ah yes yes I forgot that that happened just before she was absconded with by the dragon.
posted by wemayfreeze at 11:44 AM on May 25, 2016

Well no, she chose to climb on the dragon and it flew her away to what it thought was safety.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:57 AM on May 25, 2016 [2 favorites]

Hodor on Hodor in the NYT today.

One thing of great interest for our theories about timey-wimey-stuff is this:

Did the fact that Bran was responsible for not only his death, but also his simple-mindedness change your idea about the nature of their relationship?

No it doesn't. Although Bran was responsible for the whole chain of events that killed Hodor, Hodor didn’t have to hold that door. He wasn’t being warged into at that stage. It was Meera who asked him to hold the door, it wasn’t Bran. He wants to protect the little guy. That’s all he’s ever done. He wants to help — this is the ultimate helping hand here. I just think he would be happy they could continue without him.

posted by dis_integration at 12:20 PM on May 25, 2016 [3 favorites]

Also Hodor must not know about Samwell Tarley: "There’s no one else like Hodor on “Game of Thrones.” There’s no other character with that warmth, humanity and a little bit of comic relief.".
posted by dis_integration at 12:23 PM on May 25, 2016 [1 favorite]

Another interview with Nairn in HitFix, and this is interesting because I do think his performance is expressive by physicality as well as vocal expression:

I, to make a long story short, had hearing difficulties when I was a child, I always had to learn how to read people and their facial expressions and go off physical cues. Luckily, my hearing's fine now, but I did study to be a sign language interpreter. That's all in Hodor for me. It's just how to use your body almost as an avatar for what you're saying. You're representing what you're saying with your body as well. And also such a huge part of your body is listening, reacting to what other people are doing. Being hearing impaired is also a huge part of that.

And on Samwell: he speaks specifically to the "Hodor" he spoke when they crossed paths at the Wall and Sam recognized him: "I am Hodor, in this horrible dark room, and for the first time in six months, I've met someone who's cheerful and friendly and I can relate to a little bit, and he just gave me a massive compliment."
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 12:33 PM on May 25, 2016 [4 favorites]

A behind the scenes look at the cave battle. Stay till the end!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:40 PM on May 25, 2016 [1 favorite]

Also, male frontal nudity!

For all the intensity this episode has to offer, I think jump-cut to a penis is still one of my favorite parts.
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 12:52 PM on May 25, 2016 [16 favorites]

Cinematographically speaking, that was a real...

[sunglasses]

...dick move.
posted by cortex at 2:53 PM on May 25, 2016 [14 favorites]

Gay of Thrones S6 E5 Recap: The Hoe Door ft. Klingon Tila Tequila, and a fan theory more unique than anything I've seen written here.
posted by sparklemotion at 4:08 PM on May 25, 2016

It wasn't just jump cut to a penis, it was jump cut to a penis "It's got warts!"
posted by fatbird at 10:04 PM on May 25, 2016 [2 favorites]

On rewatched it seemed clearer that the army of wights was nearby. Once the Night King marked Bran, he had the power to override any magic protecting the tree. 'Cause come on, that tree is pretty distinct and wouldn't be hard to find if you're looking for it.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:38 AM on May 26, 2016 [1 favorite]

Hell yes Torienne/Brimund is SO happening!

I get the cuteness of this but all I can think is that they barely know each other and he is leering obnoxiously.

They should at least fight first.
posted by srboisvert at 10:26 AM on May 26, 2016 [2 favorites]

I'm pretty sure it'll be like how Klingons do it.
posted by fatbird at 2:25 PM on May 26, 2016 [5 favorites]

Yep. The Hodor reveal was exceptionally well done. I also loved the satirical play, Torienne and the sudden cut to penis.

Less effective, I felt, were the Children of the Forest. I laughed when they started lobbing magical hand grenades at the White Walkers, but I actually guffawed at the last one's Gorman/Vasquez heroic sacrifice moment.

I guess that I was able to switch emotional gears so quickly for the Hodor reveal shows how well that was handled.
posted by brundlefly at 6:11 PM on May 26, 2016

I do wonder though, if the magic woods people made the white walkers, can't they unmake them? This lack of foresight is not exactly an indicator of great wisdom.

Here on Earth we regularly have issues with invasive species due to previous generations' lack of foresight so why wouldn't the CotF make similar mistakes?
posted by Jacqueline at 4:28 PM on May 27, 2016

I'm picturing an ancient Australian slowly plunging a knife into the heart of a cane toad
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:37 PM on May 27, 2016 [5 favorites]

Heh, it's pretty clear that the White Walkers are having none of that " oh, just unmake them" talk.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:54 PM on May 27, 2016

(A) You guys I keep thinking of this line and worrying that Sansa really is pregnant.

(B) it felt like things must have progressed weeks if not a month or two in the last few episodes....Yeah, I mean, Sansa wasn't whipping up those two new awesome cloaks overnight!

Both A and B can't be true without Sansa noticing that she's pregnant.
posted by about_time at 7:58 PM on May 27, 2016

Hodoor (Hold The Door) Tribute Doorstop.
posted by scalefree at 3:10 PM on June 2, 2016

I tend to like the talky scenes more than the battle scenes provided that it is a couple of intelligent characters having the conversation and it is well-written. (ie not "What do you want?" " I want everything ") so I really liked the war council at the wall. Ser Davos is laying out the options. Sansa opines that the Karstarks could help and when Davos points out that Robb Stark had beheaded their father, she patronizingly asks "How well do you know the North, Ser Davos? " He concedes "Precious little, my lady". Sansa responds with "My father always said [Northern exceptionalism]" Davos points out that none of those families rose up against the Boltons when they took over Winterfell and goes on to say he knows men and what they will risk their lives for. Sansa is nonplused.

Then Jon intervenes with the news (to us) that there are several other minor Northern houses who, if they all joined the fight, would be a larger army than their enemies. [One of those houses is Mormont. Wouldn't it be great if Jorah returned to fight! Alas, he's wandering around the desert looking for a cure]. Then Sansa regroups and plays the "I'm a true Stark" card and compares Jon to Ramsey Bolton. Sansa totes wants to be the WardenessLady of the North you guys and she'll let Jon Snow fight all the battles in her name.

Another fraught dialogue scene with Tyrion and Varys inviting another Red Priestess into the fold. Noooooo, not more fanatical religious people. Bad move, just ask Cersei.

For the fight choreographer people, the twirling stick fights between Arya and the other faceless girl seem to be well staged, no?
posted by TWinbrook8 at 9:56 AM on October 12, 2018

I can't tell you how much the armada being built by rocky islanders with no tree access bothers me. Yes, more than dragons, white walkers and resurrected Lord Commanders. No being concerned about this is not rational. Is there like an uncanny valley for fantasy economics?
posted by mark k at 7:24 PM on April 10, 2019

The basic principle there is that dragons, white walkers, and resurrection are all part of the core premise of the show, and anything that's tied to that core premise is covered by suspension of disbelief because those are the rules of this world. The uncanny valley of boat economics happens because it's not part of the rules of the world, so it sticks out even if comparatively it's a smaller thing. If they'd magic'd the wood somehow, that would be a different thing, and it wouldn't bother anyone that way. It's not irrational at all, but part of how suspension of disbelief is negotiated between the viewer and the storyteller.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 12:28 PM on April 11, 2019 [2 favorites]