Game of Thrones: No One Show Only
June 12, 2016 7:01 PM - Season 6, Episode 8 - Subscribe
While Jaime weighs his options, Cersei answers a request. Tyrion’s plans bear fruit. Arya faces a new test.
That was an incredibly underwhelming episode.
Cersei's plan falls apart.
The Blackfish is killed off screen, due to one of the stupidest (but brilliant) moves ever.
The Waif is killed off screen, by someone who's been stabbed repeatedly in the stomach and whom she's always beaten. All the interesting theories turn out to be nothing.
The Hound doesn't get the bloody vengeance he was seeking.
Everything landed like a quiet splash made by a dull rock. The only interesting development was staff meeting Danaerys is going to have real soon now. But that'll probably occur off-screen also.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:09 PM on June 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
Cersei's plan falls apart.
The Blackfish is killed off screen, due to one of the stupidest (but brilliant) moves ever.
The Waif is killed off screen, by someone who's been stabbed repeatedly in the stomach and whom she's always beaten. All the interesting theories turn out to be nothing.
The Hound doesn't get the bloody vengeance he was seeking.
Everything landed like a quiet splash made by a dull rock. The only interesting development was staff meeting Danaerys is going to have real soon now. But that'll probably occur off-screen also.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:09 PM on June 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
So are the brothhood totally cool with those other 4 dudes the hound killed? Like they gonna cover that even a little?
posted by French Fry at 7:11 PM on June 12, 2016
posted by French Fry at 7:11 PM on June 12, 2016
That was an incredibly underwhelming episode.
Most of the action was off screen. But we got to see a flash of Clegane-dong. So there's that.
posted by dis_integration at 7:13 PM on June 12, 2016
Most of the action was off screen. But we got to see a flash of Clegane-dong. So there's that.
posted by dis_integration at 7:13 PM on June 12, 2016
What was the rumor Cersei mentioned?
posted by Four-Eyed Girl at 7:13 PM on June 12, 2016
posted by Four-Eyed Girl at 7:13 PM on June 12, 2016
Burny stuff under the Sept?
posted by drezdn at 7:17 PM on June 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 7:17 PM on June 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
I'm with drezdn...gonna be a hot time in the old town tonight.
posted by uosuaq at 7:20 PM on June 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by uosuaq at 7:20 PM on June 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
For a show that may only have 2 shortened seasons left, they sure have spent a lot of episodes this season on things that ultimately came to nothing (or at least could have been handled in half the time).
My belief that this show will have a satisfactory ending is fading fast.
posted by tocts at 7:24 PM on June 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
My belief that this show will have a satisfactory ending is fading fast.
posted by tocts at 7:24 PM on June 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
Though I will admit that much of disappoint is seeing interesting theories come to nothing. Theories which began because Arya getting repeatedly stabbed in the stomach and walking away just seemed too unbelievable, so there had to be something else going on right? But no, it was just lousy storytelling.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:35 PM on June 12, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:35 PM on June 12, 2016 [17 favorites]
Yeah, it's really bad. Even worse is that for all of the time they wasted on it, she may as well have just had the chase scene immediately after being stabbed. What does any of the Lady Crane shit do except for kill a few minutes of screen time? And it completely kills Arya's character development by having her be caught out in the open in the stupidest way possible. And then she goes up to the head of a mysterious assassin cult (also: they should work on their 'mysterious' training module, since they had one of their assassins using their actual face crashing through a crowded market to fulfill a blood vendetta) and the guy gives her a knowing wink and sends her on her way. Everything that happened with the conclusion to that arc actively undermines everything they've written about it up to that point.
posted by codacorolla at 8:11 PM on June 12, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by codacorolla at 8:11 PM on June 12, 2016 [11 favorites]
The Waif is killed off screen, by someone who's been stabbed repeatedly in the stomach and whom she's always beaten. All the interesting theories turn out to be nothing.
For reals? So we don't even get the satisfaction of witnessing her graphic comeuppance? DO THESE PEOPLE EVEN LEARNED TO TELEVISION?
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:12 PM on June 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
For reals? So we don't even get the satisfaction of witnessing her graphic comeuppance? DO THESE PEOPLE EVEN LEARNED TO TELEVISION?
posted by turbid dahlia at 8:12 PM on June 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
That said, there were lots of good scenes, like anything the Hound did, Tyrion and the others joking, Jaime's scary as hell speech to Edmure. But overall, very disappointed. What's the point of speculation if nothing comes of it because of crap writing?
I can take Arya being surprised on the bridge, but walking around so openly, without her sword? WTF?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:17 PM on June 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
I can take Arya being surprised on the bridge, but walking around so openly, without her sword? WTF?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:17 PM on June 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
What does any of the Lady Crane shit do except for kill a few minutes of screen time?
That's the theme of the season. Kill screen time. The whole chase could have been cut to 10 seconds. Her story for the past 8 episodes could have been cut to one.
Notice Tyrions drinking with the other two? He did that before. If you combined those scenes you'd swear they're the same script cut in half.
posted by FallowKing at 8:17 PM on June 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
That's the theme of the season. Kill screen time. The whole chase could have been cut to 10 seconds. Her story for the past 8 episodes could have been cut to one.
Notice Tyrions drinking with the other two? He did that before. If you combined those scenes you'd swear they're the same script cut in half.
posted by FallowKing at 8:17 PM on June 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
So are the brothhood totally cool with those other 4 dudes the hound killed? Like they gonna cover that even a little?
They were part of the rogue Brotherhood unit. I guess the good Brotherhood doesn't care that they died since they were going to be killed anyway.
And then she goes up to the head of a mysterious assassin cult (also: they should work on their 'mysterious' training module, since they had one of their assassins using their actual face crashing through a crowded market to fulfill a blood vendetta) and the guy gives her a knowing wink and sends her on her way.
Also there seems to be like only 3 Faceless Men in the entire world since after Arya killed the Waif she walked right into the secret heart of their headquarters without trouble.
posted by Sangermaine at 8:18 PM on June 12, 2016
They were part of the rogue Brotherhood unit. I guess the good Brotherhood doesn't care that they died since they were going to be killed anyway.
And then she goes up to the head of a mysterious assassin cult (also: they should work on their 'mysterious' training module, since they had one of their assassins using their actual face crashing through a crowded market to fulfill a blood vendetta) and the guy gives her a knowing wink and sends her on her way.
Also there seems to be like only 3 Faceless Men in the entire world since after Arya killed the Waif she walked right into the secret heart of their headquarters without trouble.
posted by Sangermaine at 8:18 PM on June 12, 2016
So, uh why was there so much werid no-homo stuff in this episode? Let me show y how to kiss! Lets all grab Pod's crotch! What the hell is is "I'm just kidding (I'm not kidding)" experimental summer in Westeros.
(I love Pod, nothing bad should happen to Pod , this world doesn't deserve Pod (and Brienne) )
posted by The Whelk at 8:21 PM on June 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
(I love Pod, nothing bad should happen to Pod , this world doesn't deserve Pod (and Brienne) )
posted by The Whelk at 8:21 PM on June 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
The "no-homo" stuff stood out to me as well. I don't think there's really anything behind it, other than the screenwriters trying to get some cheap laughs. Sort of bizarre to shove it all into this one episode, though.
posted by codacorolla at 8:24 PM on June 12, 2016
posted by codacorolla at 8:24 PM on June 12, 2016
Also there seems to be like only 3 Faceless Men in the entire world
They have trouble attracting new members.
They tried having an open-house one day but having a library of human faces is off-putting to most potential recruits.
posted by FallowKing at 8:25 PM on June 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
They have trouble attracting new members.
They tried having an open-house one day but having a library of human faces is off-putting to most potential recruits.
posted by FallowKing at 8:25 PM on June 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
So, uh why was there so much werid no-homo stuff in this episode? Let me show y how to kiss! Lets all grab Pod's crotch! What the hell is is "I'm just kidding (I'm not kidding)" experimental summer in Westeros.
Not to mention Arya's brief trip through that men's bathhouse.
posted by Sangermaine at 8:26 PM on June 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Not to mention Arya's brief trip through that men's bathhouse.
posted by Sangermaine at 8:26 PM on June 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Clearly the threat of white walkers and political instability is causing a mass exploration of sexual mores in Westeros and long story short Pod is in a trouple now
posted by The Whelk at 8:26 PM on June 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 8:26 PM on June 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
So, I wonder what Tommen would do if his mom confessed that he wasn't actually heir to the Baratheon throne.
posted by rmd1023 at 8:35 PM on June 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by rmd1023 at 8:35 PM on June 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
Don't do it, don't waste time speculating!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:37 PM on June 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:37 PM on June 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
Doesn't the High Sparrow already know that Tommen isn't Robert's son thanks to Lancel?
posted by Sangermaine at 8:40 PM on June 12, 2016
posted by Sangermaine at 8:40 PM on June 12, 2016
The more I think about it, the more excited I get for Cersei burning the motherfucker down. Just get Marg out first, tyvm.
Doesn't the High Sparrow already know that Tommen isn't Robert's son thanks to Lancel?
Lancel knows about him and Cersei -- I'm not convinced that Lancel knows (for a fact) about Jaime and Cersei.
posted by sparklemotion at 8:45 PM on June 12, 2016
Doesn't the High Sparrow already know that Tommen isn't Robert's son thanks to Lancel?
Lancel knows about him and Cersei -- I'm not convinced that Lancel knows (for a fact) about Jaime and Cersei.
posted by sparklemotion at 8:45 PM on June 12, 2016
I'm not sure that the show has conveyed how much information the HS has for sure, but my impression from the way he's been interacting with Cersei is that he does indeed know, and it's sort of an open secret. Then again, it's been a whispered rumor across the entire continent, as evidenced by Edmure's reaction to Jaime this episode, so even if the HS doesn't have actual intelligence, it's something that highborns gossip about.
posted by codacorolla at 8:47 PM on June 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by codacorolla at 8:47 PM on June 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
There's a difference between the HS knowing (everyone knows), and the HS having evidence sufficient to overthrow a king.
Even if the HS did have evidence, he doesn't need to overthrow Tommen right now b/c he seems* to be in his pocket.
*I really want to believe that Tommen is in on whatever game Margaery is playing. I also want to see more of Margaery playing that particular game.
posted by sparklemotion at 8:56 PM on June 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
Even if the HS did have evidence, he doesn't need to overthrow Tommen right now b/c he seems* to be in his pocket.
*I really want to believe that Tommen is in on whatever game Margaery is playing. I also want to see more of Margaery playing that particular game.
posted by sparklemotion at 8:56 PM on June 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
Lots of humor in this episode and a nearly-adequate quantity of Pod, but that whole Arya plot just made NO SENSE.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:42 PM on June 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:42 PM on June 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
A girl is Arya Stark of Winterfell, and I am going home.
posted by Night_owl at 9:58 PM on June 12, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by Night_owl at 9:58 PM on June 12, 2016 [11 favorites]
I don't understand. If the simple play was to send Edmure in to demand entry as lord of the castle, why did Jaime wait so long to make it?
posted by fuse theorem at 9:59 PM on June 12, 2016
posted by fuse theorem at 9:59 PM on June 12, 2016
I can take Arya being surprised on the bridge, but walking around so openly, without her sword? WTF?
This episode was so terrible I took the entire chase sequence to be some sort of preplanned trap in the sense of very vaguely somehow lead her would be assassin to her lair where the candle she will have lit, just in case, would still be burning after her would be assassin would most likely close the door, so she could then use Needle appropriately. The way to make this possible turned out to be an unfathomnably typical Hollywood chase scene way.
posted by juiceCake at 10:00 PM on June 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
This episode was so terrible I took the entire chase sequence to be some sort of preplanned trap in the sense of very vaguely somehow lead her would be assassin to her lair where the candle she will have lit, just in case, would still be burning after her would be assassin would most likely close the door, so she could then use Needle appropriately. The way to make this possible turned out to be an unfathomnably typical Hollywood chase scene way.
posted by juiceCake at 10:00 PM on June 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
For my sanity I'm as,using she was trying to draw the Waif into the open and was expecting a quick hit/slash and was caught off guard by a knife twist, emotionally invested stabbity stab, rolled herself off the bridge as soon as possible, and then went to lure Waif to her room with Needle where she'd had enough the advantage in darkness (which was possibly the plan in the first place) once she showed up again.
Like I assume this is a lot of frantic decision making after a lot of plans so south lreally fast.
posted by The Whelk at 10:12 PM on June 12, 2016
Like I assume this is a lot of frantic decision making after a lot of plans so south lreally fast.
posted by The Whelk at 10:12 PM on June 12, 2016
So two episodes we see Arya lying in wait with needle, blowing out the candle so that she can get the jump on Waif due to her blind-fighting skill. Then last week, I had a hallucination about Arya getting stabbed in a very out of character way, and then another hallucination this week about the Waif being and extraordinarily ineffective and not at all stealthy assassin. Then the hallucinations cleared up and I came to in time to see the resolution of the cliffhanger from two weeks ago. Good that all worked out.
posted by skewed at 10:24 PM on June 12, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by skewed at 10:24 PM on June 12, 2016 [13 favorites]
I got a pretty serious T-1000 vibe off of the Waif in this episode..
posted by sacrifix at 10:55 PM on June 12, 2016 [32 favorites]
posted by sacrifix at 10:55 PM on June 12, 2016 [32 favorites]
I got a pretty serious T-1000 vibe off of the Waif in this episode..
Totally!!! I thought it was just me!
posted by FallowKing at 11:11 PM on June 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
Totally!!! I thought it was just me!
posted by FallowKing at 11:11 PM on June 12, 2016 [5 favorites]
Fuck you all. You're worse than the Dr Who bunch. I liked it. So there.
posted by scalefree at 11:32 PM on June 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by scalefree at 11:32 PM on June 12, 2016 [7 favorites]
What did a man like about the episode?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:35 PM on June 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:35 PM on June 12, 2016 [3 favorites]
Any episode with Jaime and Brienne together isn't all bad, any episode with Bronn or Pod is watchable, any episode with both is enjoyable. And having Dany be like "oh hi, by the way, I can fly anywhere on my dragon now"--fucking finally.
Sure, Tyrion's been wasted for a whole season, and Arya's story is just a complete loss at this point. But there's some decent stuff going on.
posted by skewed at 11:43 PM on June 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
Sure, Tyrion's been wasted for a whole season, and Arya's story is just a complete loss at this point. But there's some decent stuff going on.
posted by skewed at 11:43 PM on June 12, 2016 [1 favorite]
Wow I just went and watched an episode of Veep and clicked back into the other window and that chase scene was still going. Awful.
I did like that one guy getting his head pulled off though.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:13 AM on June 13, 2016
I did like that one guy getting his head pulled off though.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:13 AM on June 13, 2016
It even included destroying a fruit cart!
yea, what it really needed was a guy in the background yelling "my cabbages!"
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 3:31 AM on June 13, 2016 [24 favorites]
yea, what it really needed was a guy in the background yelling "my cabbages!"
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 3:31 AM on June 13, 2016 [24 favorites]
I liked Arya rolling through the oranges, I guess, but I feel like your Godfather wink needs to be part of a pretty dang good scene to earn the reference. This was not that scene.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:03 AM on June 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:03 AM on June 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
What do we say to the god of death? Not today… after four years that turned out to be sort of pointless
posted by DoctorFedora at 4:49 AM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by DoctorFedora at 4:49 AM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
What I would have preferred from the the Waif showdown:
Once Arya put out the candle, the screen would have stayed black, but we would have heard them fighting, all the grunts and movement and cries, cumulating into the sound of a knife entering flesh, a body hitting the ground and then footsteps as something is being dragged (see, there was this movie from the '60s that featured a blind woman being attacked in her apartment at night and to even the odds, she smashed all the lights. So all the audience heard was her struggling until they reached the kitchen, where the refrigerator door was thrown open to reveal the final bits of the movie, very harrowing and gripping).
When we finally see its Arya who won, her clothes are torn, there's cuts and bruises over her face and various other indications that it was tough fight for someone who was stabbed in the stomach repeatedly.
But no, it appears to have been no big deal. Then Jaqen looks dickish by claiming now she is No One and also foolish because he completely misjudged Arya and it cost him a Waif.
Also, my biggest laugh of the night was the "Syrio Forel scene". Backstory, a promo still for this episode appeared of a man in shadow behind the Waif. People speculated that it was Syrio returning and much hype ensued. Turned out it was literally nothing, just a random person who had a passing resemblance to Syrio's silhouette. I actually laughed out loud when that 3 second scene occurred.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:51 AM on June 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
Once Arya put out the candle, the screen would have stayed black, but we would have heard them fighting, all the grunts and movement and cries, cumulating into the sound of a knife entering flesh, a body hitting the ground and then footsteps as something is being dragged (see, there was this movie from the '60s that featured a blind woman being attacked in her apartment at night and to even the odds, she smashed all the lights. So all the audience heard was her struggling until they reached the kitchen, where the refrigerator door was thrown open to reveal the final bits of the movie, very harrowing and gripping).
When we finally see its Arya who won, her clothes are torn, there's cuts and bruises over her face and various other indications that it was tough fight for someone who was stabbed in the stomach repeatedly.
But no, it appears to have been no big deal. Then Jaqen looks dickish by claiming now she is No One and also foolish because he completely misjudged Arya and it cost him a Waif.
Also, my biggest laugh of the night was the "Syrio Forel scene". Backstory, a promo still for this episode appeared of a man in shadow behind the Waif. People speculated that it was Syrio returning and much hype ensued. Turned out it was literally nothing, just a random person who had a passing resemblance to Syrio's silhouette. I actually laughed out loud when that 3 second scene occurred.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:51 AM on June 13, 2016 [7 favorites]
What I would have preferred is that Arya had baited the Waif to her hideout on purpose, from the start. None of this "I'm holding the idiot stick to explain how I let my guard down and got stabbed repeatedly in the abdomen but it's OK it's just a flesh wound" bullshit. Also, it should have happened roughly 2 episodes into this season.
And christ almighty was the T-Waif-Thousand stupid. This is a trained assassin who is capable of disguising herself as literally anyone, and her plan turns out to be "stalk through the streets in open daylight with no disguise, make a giant scene, and basically act completely in defiance of my training and with no thought to using my skills to my advantage".
posted by tocts at 5:11 AM on June 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
And christ almighty was the T-Waif-Thousand stupid. This is a trained assassin who is capable of disguising herself as literally anyone, and her plan turns out to be "stalk through the streets in open daylight with no disguise, make a giant scene, and basically act completely in defiance of my training and with no thought to using my skills to my advantage".
posted by tocts at 5:11 AM on June 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
This whole episode was an exercise in cheap tv production.
posted by Catblack at 5:40 AM on June 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Catblack at 5:40 AM on June 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
i need your boots, your clothes, your face and your motorcycle.
posted by French Fry at 5:41 AM on June 13, 2016 [22 favorites]
posted by French Fry at 5:41 AM on June 13, 2016 [22 favorites]
This is a trained assassin who is capable of disguising herself as literally anyone, and her plan turns out to be "stalk through the streets in open daylight with no disguise, make a giant scene, and basically act completely in defiance of my training and with no thought to using my skills to my advantage".
I'm no trained assassin, but if it were me, I'd kill the sleeping assassin in training first, before going for the easily killed actress. But again, I'm not a trained assassin, perhaps there's some protocol on killing trainees that I'm aware of.
Argued with a friend about this and they were like "Eh, it's a show with magic and bringing people back to life". Sure, but that does't mean writers get to be just tropey by default. And it's doubly frustrating because a lot of other scenes were good. The Hound just runs any scene he's in, Jamie and Cersei were excellent, but geeze, the Arya thing could have taken care of last season and she could be back in Westeros by this point.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:50 AM on June 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm no trained assassin, but if it were me, I'd kill the sleeping assassin in training first, before going for the easily killed actress. But again, I'm not a trained assassin, perhaps there's some protocol on killing trainees that I'm aware of.
Argued with a friend about this and they were like "Eh, it's a show with magic and bringing people back to life". Sure, but that does't mean writers get to be just tropey by default. And it's doubly frustrating because a lot of other scenes were good. The Hound just runs any scene he's in, Jamie and Cersei were excellent, but geeze, the Arya thing could have taken care of last season and she could be back in Westeros by this point.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:50 AM on June 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm no trained assassin, but if it were me, I'd kill the sleeping assassin in training first, before going for the easily killed actress. But again, I'm not a trained assassin, perhaps there's some protocol on killing trainees that I'm aware of.
She fell victim to her villainous nature. Evil Gloating is unavoidable, and there's no way, as a villain, that you can kill your nemesis without gloating to her about her imminent death by your hand.
posted by dis_integration at 5:53 AM on June 13, 2016
She fell victim to her villainous nature. Evil Gloating is unavoidable, and there's no way, as a villain, that you can kill your nemesis without gloating to her about her imminent death by your hand.
posted by dis_integration at 5:53 AM on June 13, 2016
the Arya thing could have taken care of last season and she could be back in Westeros by this point
And this is my beef with the whole Arya storyline. I love Arya as a character, and I love Maisie Williams as an actress. I want lots of Arya scenes, but holy shit can they please have a point? They have wasted, conservatively, a whole season worth of scenes for Arya with this Pointless Men bullshit, when they could have instead used that screen time for Arya kicking ass, taking names, and having even the tiniest fucking relevance to the overall plot.
posted by tocts at 5:59 AM on June 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
And this is my beef with the whole Arya storyline. I love Arya as a character, and I love Maisie Williams as an actress. I want lots of Arya scenes, but holy shit can they please have a point? They have wasted, conservatively, a whole season worth of scenes for Arya with this Pointless Men bullshit, when they could have instead used that screen time for Arya kicking ass, taking names, and having even the tiniest fucking relevance to the overall plot.
posted by tocts at 5:59 AM on June 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
Man, the GoT FanFare threads are turning into a YouTube-like "don't read the comments!". It seems like no one likes the show. I finish watching it every week with a "wow, that was fucking awesome!" and then the next day I check out FanFare to see ... it was terrible apparently. Are people just half-heartedly watching it while doing other things? I found the Arya chase scene riveting.
posted by freecellwizard at 7:02 AM on June 13, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by freecellwizard at 7:02 AM on June 13, 2016 [19 favorites]
Someone has been recapping the decor of it each episode this season and it's delightful!
Are people just half-heartedly watching it while doing other things?
The show is an event in our house, two hours minimum Sunday nights, where we watch the previous episode and then the new one and god help anyone who tries to interrupt this.
It's been ridiculously enjoyable this season, except for this episode, which deflated just about everything in the cheapest way possible. This season hasn't been perfect, but it certainly seemed like was reaching heights of a greatness (and no, I don't give a shit about the books).
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:14 AM on June 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
Are people just half-heartedly watching it while doing other things?
The show is an event in our house, two hours minimum Sunday nights, where we watch the previous episode and then the new one and god help anyone who tries to interrupt this.
It's been ridiculously enjoyable this season, except for this episode, which deflated just about everything in the cheapest way possible. This season hasn't been perfect, but it certainly seemed like was reaching heights of a greatness (and no, I don't give a shit about the books).
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:14 AM on June 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
I thought that this episode was hilarious... even though only like two scenes were intentionally so.
It definitely feels like this season is showing the result of whatever weird tension/negotiations went down between the show and GRRM. There's been so much stalling, and I can't tell if that's because of things with GRRM, or if they're just afraid to really go for it and depart from the books. But this season has been so resistant to development and following through on plotlines (hello? Dorne?) that it's baffling.
posted by TwoStride at 7:14 AM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
It definitely feels like this season is showing the result of whatever weird tension/negotiations went down between the show and GRRM. There's been so much stalling, and I can't tell if that's because of things with GRRM, or if they're just afraid to really go for it and depart from the books. But this season has been so resistant to development and following through on plotlines (hello? Dorne?) that it's baffling.
posted by TwoStride at 7:14 AM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
I definitely enjoy the show and currently have an HBO Now subscription specifically for the purpose of watching it, but I don't think it (or any other show I watch) is above criticism, whether that comes in the form of playful jabs or more pointed discussions of things that the show could be doing better. Personally, I think this season been a mixed bag (less so than last season), but I'm also thrilled by how it seems like things are finally winding up and moving into the series endgame.
posted by Strange Interlude at 7:22 AM on June 13, 2016
posted by Strange Interlude at 7:22 AM on June 13, 2016
Brandon Blatcher: That was an incredibly underwhelming episode.
dis_integration: Most of the action was off screen.
There's "show, don't say" as a response to characters rambling on with extensive exposition, but they with "imagine, don't see" as a response to actually showing anything. Tricky move, D&D, tricky move.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:42 AM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
dis_integration: Most of the action was off screen.
There's "show, don't say" as a response to characters rambling on with extensive exposition, but they with "imagine, don't see" as a response to actually showing anything. Tricky move, D&D, tricky move.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:42 AM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm liking this season more than last. I love the show in general it's literally the only show I'm watching at the moment, and the only show I watch live all year. I don't watch a lot of TV (there isn't another show I plan to watch until 'rick and morty' comes back) so perhaps I am less bothered by some of the tropes as I am less bombarded by them.
posted by French Fry at 7:43 AM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by French Fry at 7:43 AM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Brandon Blatcher: Don't do it, don't waste time speculating!
I have come to realize the best way to deal with this show is how Cersei used to deal with her life: drink until you don't care. You can even skip the wine and go straight to not caring. "Huh, so that's why/ how this next thing happened. I had other ideas, but they don't matter."
posted by filthy light thief at 7:46 AM on June 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
I have come to realize the best way to deal with this show is how Cersei used to deal with her life: drink until you don't care. You can even skip the wine and go straight to not caring. "Huh, so that's why/ how this next thing happened. I had other ideas, but they don't matter."
posted by filthy light thief at 7:46 AM on June 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
I don't understand. If the simple play was to send Edmure in to demand entry as lord of the castle, why did Jaime wait so long to make it?
Because Edmure wasn't completely broken yet, just really close. Remember the whole "how do you sleep at night?" bit? Edmure was trying to find some softness in Jaime, trying to chip away his apparent veneer of self-assured bad-ass. Instead, he found that Jaime only wants one thing, and is willing to destroy everything else in his way. And he has the army to back him, so he will likely get his way at this siege, so why not skip to the end where the Tully folk throw down their arms and Edmure can get back to living his life, maybe even with his wife and son.
Edmure is broken enough to take the offer, tired of being a prisoner, tired of trying to figure out what game his captor is playing, so he takes the offer. Luckily, the head dude on the wall is still 100% on Team Edmure For Castle Lord (and the men on the wall were on his team), or the whole thing would have fizzled then and there.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:54 AM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Because Edmure wasn't completely broken yet, just really close. Remember the whole "how do you sleep at night?" bit? Edmure was trying to find some softness in Jaime, trying to chip away his apparent veneer of self-assured bad-ass. Instead, he found that Jaime only wants one thing, and is willing to destroy everything else in his way. And he has the army to back him, so he will likely get his way at this siege, so why not skip to the end where the Tully folk throw down their arms and Edmure can get back to living his life, maybe even with his wife and son.
Edmure is broken enough to take the offer, tired of being a prisoner, tired of trying to figure out what game his captor is playing, so he takes the offer. Luckily, the head dude on the wall is still 100% on Team Edmure For Castle Lord (and the men on the wall were on his team), or the whole thing would have fizzled then and there.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:54 AM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also, they needed to clean him up a bit after leaving him to wallow in his own filth for a few years. Half the job of convincing the troops that you are the rightful lord is looking the part.
posted by cardboard at 7:57 AM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by cardboard at 7:57 AM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
I don't understand. If the simple play was to send Edmure in to demand entry as lord of the castle, why did Jaime wait so long to make it?
The genuinely interesting part there was that Jamie didn't want to kill anyone. He would, that was made clear, but he really wasn't looking forward to spilling blood and saw it as pointless in this instance. It would have great to see how he would have dealt with the Blackfish being his prisoner, what he would have said or done to him, but alas honor and all that.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:13 AM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
The genuinely interesting part there was that Jamie didn't want to kill anyone. He would, that was made clear, but he really wasn't looking forward to spilling blood and saw it as pointless in this instance. It would have great to see how he would have dealt with the Blackfish being his prisoner, what he would have said or done to him, but alas honor and all that.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:13 AM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
so why not skip to the end where the Tully folk throw down their arms and Edmure can get back to living his life, maybe even with his wife and son.
The son he can't be sure actually exists since he's never seen him. Oh well.
Cersei burning the motherfucker down
Given how great Cersei's plans have gone of late, the burning down will probably include Tommen. And I'm still betting it won't be by accident unless there's some Westerosian version of deprogramming available. I think she's just about done with that kid and will come to see killing him as the only way to remove him from the clutches of those religious wackos.
posted by fuse theorem at 8:22 AM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
The son he can't be sure actually exists since he's never seen him. Oh well.
Cersei burning the motherfucker down
Given how great Cersei's plans have gone of late, the burning down will probably include Tommen. And I'm still betting it won't be by accident unless there's some Westerosian version of deprogramming available. I think she's just about done with that kid and will come to see killing him as the only way to remove him from the clutches of those religious wackos.
posted by fuse theorem at 8:22 AM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Are people just half-heartedly watching it while doing other things?
No, I legitimately like the show a lot, I'm just frustrated that the links between story progression and real-world production issues have become so apparent. By far, the two storylines I've been most unhappy with have been Daenerys and Arya, because in both cases the show has been visibly stalling for time for about 1.5 seasons due to GRRM not finishing his books and the showrunners trying to give him time to do so.
I might have found Arya vs. the Waif more thrilling if it had happened 8-10 episodes ago. The same is true of Daenerys' return -- it's nice we're finally moving forward, but good lord how much time can we spend on the build-up to an event everyone already knew was going to happen seasons ago? I would honestly have been happier if their storylines had gone largely dark instead of repeatedly going back to them and then pointedly not moving even an inch forward.
To top it all off, I am 100% baffled by all the time spent worrying about The Blackfish this season. A ton of time was spent pulling back in a character we haven't heard from in years just to make a big deal of something something offscreen death. Maybe he matters more in the books, but at this point I think you've just got to streamline him out of it. Even if he had to be brought back, if this was the intended end they could've managed it in way less screen time.
Nonetheless: yes, there's a lot I still like about the show, and I think there's been some interesting stuff going on even in this season. I just think there's also been what feels like a ton of wasted time. That, combined with reports about HBO's scheduling plans for the show, make me pretty worried that the show is going to end in a hurried rush of unsatisfying exposition.
posted by tocts at 8:34 AM on June 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
No, I legitimately like the show a lot, I'm just frustrated that the links between story progression and real-world production issues have become so apparent. By far, the two storylines I've been most unhappy with have been Daenerys and Arya, because in both cases the show has been visibly stalling for time for about 1.5 seasons due to GRRM not finishing his books and the showrunners trying to give him time to do so.
I might have found Arya vs. the Waif more thrilling if it had happened 8-10 episodes ago. The same is true of Daenerys' return -- it's nice we're finally moving forward, but good lord how much time can we spend on the build-up to an event everyone already knew was going to happen seasons ago? I would honestly have been happier if their storylines had gone largely dark instead of repeatedly going back to them and then pointedly not moving even an inch forward.
To top it all off, I am 100% baffled by all the time spent worrying about The Blackfish this season. A ton of time was spent pulling back in a character we haven't heard from in years just to make a big deal of something something offscreen death. Maybe he matters more in the books, but at this point I think you've just got to streamline him out of it. Even if he had to be brought back, if this was the intended end they could've managed it in way less screen time.
Nonetheless: yes, there's a lot I still like about the show, and I think there's been some interesting stuff going on even in this season. I just think there's also been what feels like a ton of wasted time. That, combined with reports about HBO's scheduling plans for the show, make me pretty worried that the show is going to end in a hurried rush of unsatisfying exposition.
posted by tocts at 8:34 AM on June 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
Two scenes in particular seemed to have no tension whatsoever:
In the pyramid scene when her small council stops speaking because of the noise on the roof it was too obvious it was Danaerys on her dragon. Their nervousness was forced. The slow reveal with the unsullied walking out the door and then kneeling was a let-down as a result.
The final confrontation between Arya and the Waif was likewise lacking in tension. I did like how she cut the candle, but the outcome seemed obvious and inevitable. The slow reveal of the blood on the floor of the Hall of Faces didn't build any tension.
These were tropey time-fillers.
I did think that both everything in Riverrun and everything having to do with The Hound was excellent. Even Cersei's scenes were done well.
posted by GrapeApiary at 8:55 AM on June 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
In the pyramid scene when her small council stops speaking because of the noise on the roof it was too obvious it was Danaerys on her dragon. Their nervousness was forced. The slow reveal with the unsullied walking out the door and then kneeling was a let-down as a result.
The final confrontation between Arya and the Waif was likewise lacking in tension. I did like how she cut the candle, but the outcome seemed obvious and inevitable. The slow reveal of the blood on the floor of the Hall of Faces didn't build any tension.
These were tropey time-fillers.
I did think that both everything in Riverrun and everything having to do with The Hound was excellent. Even Cersei's scenes were done well.
posted by GrapeApiary at 8:55 AM on June 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
I super wanted the Mountain to tear through the Sparrows like a scythe through wheat. Soon enough, no doubt.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:58 AM on June 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:58 AM on June 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
The chase sequence between the (presumably heavily-wounded Arya) and the Waif made me think that the name the latter gave up to join the Faceless Men was "Jackie Chan."
posted by Aubergine at 9:10 AM on June 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Aubergine at 9:10 AM on June 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
The other thing is that with the stories so spread out in so many places right now (Dorne, Riverrun, the North in multiple places, Mereen, Braavos, the steppes, King's Landing), there's a fair amount of jumping around, which isn't typically to my personal taste but I feel like has generally been handled pretty well by GoT over its several seasons and it hasn't aggravated me the way jumping around usually does. But the last couple episodes of this season I've noticed it, and last night's episode it was really annoying to me. I also felt like there's maybe too long a "runway" on getting us "into" the new setting on a lot of the scene switches; I found myself often feeling impatient for the new scene or annoyed that we're back in $Place. Which fades and is fine as the action gets going, but it did stand out as slower and maybe sloppier than in the past.
(It's hard for me to judge because I dislike frequent place changes so much as a personal thing, but generally they've been fine for me on GoT and last night they were in full annoy mode so something was different.)
I don't know. It's hard for me to single out why last night was a rather disappointing episode, but I've really enjoyed this season so far and last night just wasn't that enjoyable for me. Other than all the Podrick. And feeling moderately smug about being right about how Edmure is the literal worst. But yeah, felt like so many plots were resolved by throwing them away -- Arya and the Faceless Men, the Blackfish in general ... I don't know. I can think of a lot of moments I liked last night, but as a whole it didn't work for me.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:26 AM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
(It's hard for me to judge because I dislike frequent place changes so much as a personal thing, but generally they've been fine for me on GoT and last night they were in full annoy mode so something was different.)
I don't know. It's hard for me to single out why last night was a rather disappointing episode, but I've really enjoyed this season so far and last night just wasn't that enjoyable for me. Other than all the Podrick. And feeling moderately smug about being right about how Edmure is the literal worst. But yeah, felt like so many plots were resolved by throwing them away -- Arya and the Faceless Men, the Blackfish in general ... I don't know. I can think of a lot of moments I liked last night, but as a whole it didn't work for me.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:26 AM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Eyebrows McGee: It's hard for me to single out why last night was a rather disappointing episode
I think I can buy into some of the disappointment in this episode in that there was so much interesting speculation and high anticipation that came crashing down. No interesting twist with the Waif and Arya (and no final death, just the Waif's bloody face-mask on the shelf), no Cleganebowl (Sandor didn't get his full revenge on Lem Lemoncloak and the other Brothers who slaughtered his new friends), the Riverrun siege ended with a fizzle, even lacking a final, (if futile) battle by the Blackfish. Even Dany's return felt lackluster. A thud on the roof, the Unsullied take a knee, Dany enters and scene.
I still feel like this moved things forward, even if there were more exciting or interesting possibilities for almost every scene.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:38 AM on June 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
I think I can buy into some of the disappointment in this episode in that there was so much interesting speculation and high anticipation that came crashing down. No interesting twist with the Waif and Arya (and no final death, just the Waif's bloody face-mask on the shelf), no Cleganebowl (Sandor didn't get his full revenge on Lem Lemoncloak and the other Brothers who slaughtered his new friends), the Riverrun siege ended with a fizzle, even lacking a final, (if futile) battle by the Blackfish. Even Dany's return felt lackluster. A thud on the roof, the Unsullied take a knee, Dany enters and scene.
I still feel like this moved things forward, even if there were more exciting or interesting possibilities for almost every scene.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:38 AM on June 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
I just disliked that the cliche and frankly boring Arya stuff took up time that could have been spent on things actually happening. Hound was great. Shitty jokes in Mereen were great. Jaime makes me want to punch his "handsome" face all the time, and that's great. No Sparrow, which also made me thrilled, because he may be the only person more boring that Arya's storyline. But I want narrative movement, dammit, and I want the Greyjoys and new Self-Esteem Theon and not ten minutes of unbeliveable, bad action-film running.
posted by dame at 10:35 AM on June 13, 2016
posted by dame at 10:35 AM on June 13, 2016
I totally didn't pick up that it was the dragon on the roof. Maybe its time to release the other 2 on the ships in the harbor. Or maybe the Iron Island fleet will show up just in time.
posted by LizBoBiz at 10:57 AM on June 13, 2016
posted by LizBoBiz at 10:57 AM on June 13, 2016
You can add "we had all this time for Waif-fu but couldn't show the audience even like 5 seconds of dragons torching some ships" to my list of complaints about this episode.
posted by tocts at 11:02 AM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by tocts at 11:02 AM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Nikolaj Coster-Waldau has fan theories (show-only spoilers up through last night) and talks favorite scenes from last night.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:06 AM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:06 AM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
30 minutes of the internally wounded Arya outrunning the healthy Waif, leaping over walls, crashing to the ground, crashing down stone steps in an obviously bone-breaking manner, then the final fight scene takes place off-screen. But she's able to clean herself up, and sneak back to the temple to confront Jaquen. Who lets her walk free as if the whole thing had been part of her training all along. Lame. Lamity-lame-lame.
I liked pretty much everything else, though.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:17 AM on June 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
I liked pretty much everything else, though.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:17 AM on June 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
I did like the moment where it became obvious that Arya was deliberately leaving a trail of bloody handprints to her dark lair.
The treatment of her wound still seems utterly ridiculous though; stabbed in the guts, dunked in dirty canal water, bleeding out in the costume room, but a night of poppy-assisted sleep and you're good for hamstering around the city again. (And it's not like infection doesn't exist in this world: Robert's boar wound, Jaime's stump, and in particular Khal Drogo died from infection resulting from a seemingly-minor cut.)
Also, Lady Crane: "yeah, I'm good at patching people up 'cause I used to stab my boyfriends like all the time ha ha ha." What.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:22 AM on June 13, 2016 [19 favorites]
The treatment of her wound still seems utterly ridiculous though; stabbed in the guts, dunked in dirty canal water, bleeding out in the costume room, but a night of poppy-assisted sleep and you're good for hamstering around the city again. (And it's not like infection doesn't exist in this world: Robert's boar wound, Jaime's stump, and in particular Khal Drogo died from infection resulting from a seemingly-minor cut.)
Also, Lady Crane: "yeah, I'm good at patching people up 'cause I used to stab my boyfriends like all the time ha ha ha." What.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:22 AM on June 13, 2016 [19 favorites]
Never an adapted fantasy series, the plotting will always let you down!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:33 AM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:33 AM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
I am assuming that the Mountain can be killed again. Is that true, or still unknown?
posted by cairnoflore at 11:36 AM on June 13, 2016
posted by cairnoflore at 11:36 AM on June 13, 2016
That's why you have to bore a hole in his skull and fill it up with wildfire. Turn The Mountain into a molehill.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:00 PM on June 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:00 PM on June 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
I gave up on the novels about halfway through book 3, and I love the show and look forward to it every week just because it's something, but at the same time for a couple of seasons now I've spent a lot of time watching and thinking "if this is what they kept in, I'd hate to see what they cut out". Arya's storyline in particular has been an utter debacle.
posted by turbid dahlia at 12:15 PM on June 13, 2016
posted by turbid dahlia at 12:15 PM on June 13, 2016
What if Flaming Unkillable Wildfire Zombie Mountain becomes the surprise MVP of the war with the White Walkers
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:18 PM on June 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:18 PM on June 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
What if the Night's King becomes the surprise MVP of the war with Cersei?
posted by rocketman at 12:20 PM on June 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by rocketman at 12:20 PM on June 13, 2016 [5 favorites]
I think Arya will end up being the key to everything. The red fire witches and Cersei's wildfire and Bran/Daenerys' warg-dragons will cancel out the Night King's Zombie Freeze-ray TechnologyTM and the skies will turn black with smoke and steam, but Arya, who has sneaked up on the Night King by wearing a zombie face, will strike him down with Sam's Valyrian steel sword while the Night King is ironically blind in the dark (good night, king!). Then The Hound will rip Arya's head off for leaving him to die. Then Brienne of Tarth will cut off The Hound's head. Then Theon will kill Bran and Rickon because why not? Everybody but Sansa thinks he already did. Then Sansa will kill Little Finger and Theon and Brienne of Tarth (accidentally, because now Sansa is gone berserker). Tyrion opens a vinyard and comedy club with Grey Worm and Missandei. Cersei kills Tommen by popular demand, which leaves Margaery Tyrell as Queen. The Faith of the Seven dissolves when the people figure out that it's boring as hell. The Kingslayer goes home to Cersei, only to find that she has now taken up with Margaery. They give Daenerys the throne as a souvenir because it's super uncomfortable, what with all the sharp, pointy swords sticking up, and everybody agrees that Jon Snow is kinda whiny ever since he was murdered, so he goes to live with the Wildlings, but Wun-Wun steps on him by "accident". Lady Melisandre takes up with Ramsay Bolton, and soon they are blessed with a bouncing baby smoke-monster. Arya (who shakes off having her head ripped off, because Arya) and Podrick hook up, which everybody agrees is pretty awesome, but then Arya stabs him for repeatedly overcooking the rabbits, so Podrick goes back to King's Landing and becomes a male stripper. The Spider starts up a new business licensing franchises to sell "genuine" Dothraki craft items to tourists. The Sand Snakes keep trying to make Dorne happen. Lady Lyanna of Bear Island gets her own spin-off, Lady Lyanna of Bear Island. Everyone agrees it's the best thing evar!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:13 PM on June 13, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:13 PM on June 13, 2016 [17 favorites]
When all of the above happens, I'll still try to act surprised.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 1:26 PM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by paper chromatographologist at 1:26 PM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Florence Henderson, this is the books-only thread
posted by DoctorFedora at 2:09 PM on June 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 2:09 PM on June 13, 2016 [4 favorites]
I think you mean "this is the show-only thread"
posted by filthy light thief at 3:10 PM on June 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by filthy light thief at 3:10 PM on June 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
Let's talk about everyone but Arya!
In Meereen, I'll admit that I was confused about whose ships were sailing into the harbor, even though the flag was clearly visible my brain wanted it to be a Greyjoy Kraken. I'm glad Dany's back, I hope we don't have to spend a ton of time with her being angry about how Tyrion ran things on her behalf. I find myself wondering if Drogon can handle a whole fleet of ships.... maybe if Rhaegal and Viserion help out? Thinking about that just made me start to get angry about how we got such a great start of a relationship between Tyrion and the dragons and we have not heard or seen anything come from that yet.
At King's Landing, I've been waiting for Cersei to choose violence since the first trailers for this season. And she did, and it was glorious (even though they totally milked that line 9 seconds!*). I'm not ashamed to say that I'm on Team Cersei+Qyburn right now which is saying something because they are both terrible, but the Sparrows are so much worse. The Slate reviewers picked up on this.
Somewhere in the forest, The Hound (sorry, Sandor) is a good fit for Thoros and Beric (both of whom it's good to see back again). I wonder though where that story could be going -- the only thing that I think makes sense is that they'll end up at Winterfell. Which suits me fine because I've never gotten hyped for #CleganeBowl. #BastardBowl on the other hand...
At Riverrun, I was disappointed in the Blackfish's decision to die for nothing -- he could have been a great asset to the north in the Wars To Come. I'm also fairly confident that Jaime will do *something* to help out the Stark cause at Winterfell. Crazy me hopes that he'll go himself, more realistic me says that he'll tell Edmure that he's not welcome at Riverrun anymore and to take his army North to aide Sansa.
The Jaime + Brienne reunion was quite a bit more moving than I expected... it's been too long since we've seen the chemistry between those two (though I remain steadfast in my resolve that Jaime does not deserve her).
*completely unrelated but can we take a moment to appreciate how far Cousin Lancel has come since Season 1? I mean, the transformation isn't new to us, but still: Damn... Lancel.
posted by sparklemotion at 3:39 PM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
In Meereen, I'll admit that I was confused about whose ships were sailing into the harbor, even though the flag was clearly visible my brain wanted it to be a Greyjoy Kraken. I'm glad Dany's back, I hope we don't have to spend a ton of time with her being angry about how Tyrion ran things on her behalf. I find myself wondering if Drogon can handle a whole fleet of ships.... maybe if Rhaegal and Viserion help out? Thinking about that just made me start to get angry about how we got such a great start of a relationship between Tyrion and the dragons and we have not heard or seen anything come from that yet.
At King's Landing, I've been waiting for Cersei to choose violence since the first trailers for this season. And she did, and it was glorious (even though they totally milked that line 9 seconds!*). I'm not ashamed to say that I'm on Team Cersei+Qyburn right now which is saying something because they are both terrible, but the Sparrows are so much worse. The Slate reviewers picked up on this.
Somewhere in the forest, The Hound (sorry, Sandor) is a good fit for Thoros and Beric (both of whom it's good to see back again). I wonder though where that story could be going -- the only thing that I think makes sense is that they'll end up at Winterfell. Which suits me fine because I've never gotten hyped for #CleganeBowl. #BastardBowl on the other hand...
At Riverrun, I was disappointed in the Blackfish's decision to die for nothing -- he could have been a great asset to the north in the Wars To Come. I'm also fairly confident that Jaime will do *something* to help out the Stark cause at Winterfell. Crazy me hopes that he'll go himself, more realistic me says that he'll tell Edmure that he's not welcome at Riverrun anymore and to take his army North to aide Sansa.
The Jaime + Brienne reunion was quite a bit more moving than I expected... it's been too long since we've seen the chemistry between those two (though I remain steadfast in my resolve that Jaime does not deserve her).
*completely unrelated but can we take a moment to appreciate how far Cousin Lancel has come since Season 1? I mean, the transformation isn't new to us, but still: Damn... Lancel.
posted by sparklemotion at 3:39 PM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
At Riverrun, I was disappointed in the Blackfish's decision to die for nothing -- he could have been a great asset to the north in the Wars To Come.
Agreed, but he was of that mold where honor can trump reason, much like the Starks. Ned, Cat, Robb, right on down the line they were made stupid decisions that got them and others killed. At least the Blackfish only managed to get himself killed this time.
Can we pause here for a moment to admire Jamie's brilliant strategy for ending the siege? That was an insane gamble, that I would have sworn would never work, but it did! It played right on the class layers in the society and exploited the hell out of them and did so in way that was peaceful! Yes, he had to make it clear how far he would go against Edmure's family, but it worked! And Jaimie's the better choice, he'll probably keep his word, let everyone return to their homes etc, etc.
Then that lingering wave between him and Brienne! Note how he carefully looked around to see if anyone would notice him and then he waved. If and Brienne had a cave all to themselves, they'd probably never leave it, but that's not the world they live in. So just a haunting wave and then back to the game.
As for Meereen, I really want to see what Danaerys has to say about the state of things.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:27 PM on June 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
Agreed, but he was of that mold where honor can trump reason, much like the Starks. Ned, Cat, Robb, right on down the line they were made stupid decisions that got them and others killed. At least the Blackfish only managed to get himself killed this time.
Can we pause here for a moment to admire Jamie's brilliant strategy for ending the siege? That was an insane gamble, that I would have sworn would never work, but it did! It played right on the class layers in the society and exploited the hell out of them and did so in way that was peaceful! Yes, he had to make it clear how far he would go against Edmure's family, but it worked! And Jaimie's the better choice, he'll probably keep his word, let everyone return to their homes etc, etc.
Then that lingering wave between him and Brienne! Note how he carefully looked around to see if anyone would notice him and then he waved. If and Brienne had a cave all to themselves, they'd probably never leave it, but that's not the world they live in. So just a haunting wave and then back to the game.
As for Meereen, I really want to see what Danaerys has to say about the state of things.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:27 PM on June 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
Perhaps the Blackfish's death off screen serves as statement about the honor principal at this society. It may mean something to the Blackfish, but ultimately barely registers to others or the larger society. No grand fight, with dazzling cinematography and a swelling musical score. You're just dead, with no ability to affect the world for the causes you believe in or the people you love.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:39 PM on June 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:39 PM on June 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
I think she's just about done with that kid and will come to see killing him as the only way to remove him from the clutches of those religious wackos.
Dunno about that. When he was walking out of the throne room she lit up like a sparkler. Her eyes were locked onto him with an expression I'd almost call worshipful. More than a hint of reverse Oedipus going on there.
posted by scalefree at 5:43 PM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Dunno about that. When he was walking out of the throne room she lit up like a sparkler. Her eyes were locked onto him with an expression I'd almost call worshipful. More than a hint of reverse Oedipus going on there.
posted by scalefree at 5:43 PM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
A girl is Arya Stark of Winterfell, and I am going home.
That was a very unsatisfying moment for me. I get that many people are saying it's about Arya discovering herself and learning to accept who she is and blah blah blah, but really, we've spent all this time building up the Faceless God and the Faceless Men and now we have a reset.
The theme of this season seems very much to be: two steps forward, three steps back. We have Daenerys hanging out with horse-lords and having to deal with slavers who have captured a city. We have Arya picking up her sword Needle and heading back for vegeance. We have Sansa trying to raise an army against a mad upstart who has her outnumbered, hmm, does that seem familiar? *cough* *cough* Robb *cough* *cough*.
It's been enjoyable watching more of this show focus on powerful women but it's been unsatisfying watching many of them make foolish decisions that take us back to moments from previous seasons. At least, that's my take on it.
posted by Fizz at 6:02 PM on June 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
That was a very unsatisfying moment for me. I get that many people are saying it's about Arya discovering herself and learning to accept who she is and blah blah blah, but really, we've spent all this time building up the Faceless God and the Faceless Men and now we have a reset.
The theme of this season seems very much to be: two steps forward, three steps back. We have Daenerys hanging out with horse-lords and having to deal with slavers who have captured a city. We have Arya picking up her sword Needle and heading back for vegeance. We have Sansa trying to raise an army against a mad upstart who has her outnumbered, hmm, does that seem familiar? *cough* *cough* Robb *cough* *cough*.
It's been enjoyable watching more of this show focus on powerful women but it's been unsatisfying watching many of them make foolish decisions that take us back to moments from previous seasons. At least, that's my take on it.
posted by Fizz at 6:02 PM on June 13, 2016 [2 favorites]
The whole Arya thing, up to this point, was total Martial Arts Movie Tropes - she joins a secret martial arts society to get training so she can carry out personal revenge, then discovers during the training that you can only achieve true mastery by Rejecting the Self (and therefore rejecting your desire for Revenge.) Then, as it turns out, once you've fully rejected the Self, you can go ahead and strike down those you wanted to strike down in the first place, because you're no longer doing it for Personal Revenge but for Justice, because those who have wronged you are actually just Bad People who Deserve It.
IOW, we were all supposed to cheer when Arya "reclaimed" her name - either because we like her enough (as a Stark, she's definitely one of the protagonists of the show) that it doesn't matter that she couldn't fully reject her identity or desire for revenge, or because she has actually moved past doing things for "personal revenge" and on to doing the same things for familial responsibilities and justice.
The show badly miscalculated the pacing of showing her training - if they'd shown it less often but made it more intense (and shown actual improvement), the visual concept of "all we need to see of Arya killing the Waif is her slicing the candle because we know she can fight blind" would have worked. (Plus, then we could have had valuable minutes with other characters or situations.) And of course on top of that this ep had a ton of "important stuff happens offscreen", so Arya killing the Waif became just another one of those moments - if it had been the only one of those moments it would have had more impact.
posted by soundguy99 at 6:34 PM on June 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
IOW, we were all supposed to cheer when Arya "reclaimed" her name - either because we like her enough (as a Stark, she's definitely one of the protagonists of the show) that it doesn't matter that she couldn't fully reject her identity or desire for revenge, or because she has actually moved past doing things for "personal revenge" and on to doing the same things for familial responsibilities and justice.
The show badly miscalculated the pacing of showing her training - if they'd shown it less often but made it more intense (and shown actual improvement), the visual concept of "all we need to see of Arya killing the Waif is her slicing the candle because we know she can fight blind" would have worked. (Plus, then we could have had valuable minutes with other characters or situations.) And of course on top of that this ep had a ton of "important stuff happens offscreen", so Arya killing the Waif became just another one of those moments - if it had been the only one of those moments it would have had more impact.
posted by soundguy99 at 6:34 PM on June 13, 2016 [10 favorites]
Tyrion is the man. The second Varys said "the most famous dwarf in the city" I said, out loud, "the most famous dwarf in the WORLD". I knew Tyrion couldn't let that stand.
I thought it a meta-comment (much like a girl standing in the crowd watching her father's execution on stage a second time) -- there is a decent chance Peter Dinklage is the most famous little person in the world these days.
But yes, I reckon that this was a lot of wheels spinning. The Hound haggling over how many prisoners he can maim was darkly funny, and the Sparrows' attempt to intimidate Cersei and Ser Robert was likewise. (As a longtime tabletop RPG plaster, as soon as the first sparrow met a gruesome end and the rest stood back uncertainly, I said,"Morale check.") And Arya's arc was deeply clichéd, to the point that I said to Mrs. Biscuit that Arya was about to run through a fruit cart just before, you know.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:19 PM on June 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
I thought it a meta-comment (much like a girl standing in the crowd watching her father's execution on stage a second time) -- there is a decent chance Peter Dinklage is the most famous little person in the world these days.
But yes, I reckon that this was a lot of wheels spinning. The Hound haggling over how many prisoners he can maim was darkly funny, and the Sparrows' attempt to intimidate Cersei and Ser Robert was likewise. (As a longtime tabletop RPG plaster, as soon as the first sparrow met a gruesome end and the rest stood back uncertainly, I said,"Morale check.") And Arya's arc was deeply clichéd, to the point that I said to Mrs. Biscuit that Arya was about to run through a fruit cart just before, you know.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:19 PM on June 13, 2016 [6 favorites]
I got a pretty serious T-1000 vibe off of the Waif in this episode..
Well, like Robert Patrick in the role (and subsequently Zoe Saldana in Guardians of the Galaxy, the Waif was sprinting with her mouth closed, which at some level the viewer realizes is something humans do not do.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:24 PM on June 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
Well, like Robert Patrick in the role (and subsequently Zoe Saldana in Guardians of the Galaxy, the Waif was sprinting with her mouth closed, which at some level the viewer realizes is something humans do not do.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:24 PM on June 13, 2016 [9 favorites]
sprinting with her mouth closed
I kinda thought it was a nod at her superlative VO2 from intense training, but yeah, T-1000 didn't need to breath.
For me, it was definitely the emotionless but intense glares during the chase.
Also, she apparently doesn't sweat.
posted by porpoise at 7:38 PM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
I kinda thought it was a nod at her superlative VO2 from intense training, but yeah, T-1000 didn't need to breath.
For me, it was definitely the emotionless but intense glares during the chase.
Also, she apparently doesn't sweat.
posted by porpoise at 7:38 PM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also, she apparently doesn't sweat.
Maybe you can't sweat once you've gone all face/off?
posted by TwoStride at 7:43 PM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
Maybe you can't sweat once you've gone all face/off?
posted by TwoStride at 7:43 PM on June 13, 2016 [1 favorite]
in particular Khal Drogo died from infection resulting from a seemingly-minor cut
Khal Drogo did have a witch rubbing e coli directly into his minor cut.
posted by srboisvert at 8:12 PM on June 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
Khal Drogo did have a witch rubbing e coli directly into his minor cut.
posted by srboisvert at 8:12 PM on June 13, 2016 [8 favorites]
I prefer chicken.
posted by carmicha at 9:32 PM on June 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by carmicha at 9:32 PM on June 13, 2016 [3 favorites]
This episode did seem like a budget pen had erased quite a few scenes. I'm assuming that they're putting all their money into next week's big battle and couldn't afford the effects for more than a glimpse of the dragon and the choreography for the two death scenes. Even the fights we see quick and mostly done in editing.
posted by octothorpe at 3:59 AM on June 14, 2016
posted by octothorpe at 3:59 AM on June 14, 2016
Yes this episode wasn't as good as maybe half the episodes in the series but it was still good TV. I too was disappointed with a faceless man in a pointless arc. But in general, the reason I love GoT is that almost every character is seriously flawed,and yet sometimes I cheer for them. I was cheering Cersei and her two lackeys this episode. I was cheering Jamie, and he coldly threw Bran out of a window in episode 1. Go team murderous incestuous psychopaths!
posted by about_time at 4:02 AM on June 14, 2016
posted by about_time at 4:02 AM on June 14, 2016
When he was walking out of the throne room she lit up like a sparkler. Her eyes were locked onto him with an expression I'd almost call worshipful. More than a hint of reverse Oedipus going on there.
Mother's pride perhaps? If turns out that dim bulb Tommen, under the brief tutelage of mommy, has been running a long con on the religious wackos (and his wife), then I think that would be the shock of the season. Especially if it succeeds in spite of having sprung from Cersei's tactically over-confident mind.
posted by fuse theorem at 6:09 AM on June 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Mother's pride perhaps? If turns out that dim bulb Tommen, under the brief tutelage of mommy, has been running a long con on the religious wackos (and his wife), then I think that would be the shock of the season. Especially if it succeeds in spite of having sprung from Cersei's tactically over-confident mind.
posted by fuse theorem at 6:09 AM on June 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
When he was walking out of the throne room she lit up like a sparkler. Her eyes were locked onto him with an expression I'd almost call worshipful
Yet, she was going to poison him back in Season 2, while sitting on the Iron Throne and has promised to burn cities to the ground so that her other son, the murderous psychopath, could get his way. So Cersei looking at one of her kids as worshipful is just another bad sign on kings road full of bad signs.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:17 AM on June 14, 2016
Yet, she was going to poison him back in Season 2, while sitting on the Iron Throne and has promised to burn cities to the ground so that her other son, the murderous psychopath, could get his way. So Cersei looking at one of her kids as worshipful is just another bad sign on kings road full of bad signs.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:17 AM on June 14, 2016
I think that Cersei is going to play the illegitimacy card with Tommen. He has no claim to the throne if his father isn't Robert Baratheon and if she threatens to expose that fact in the trial then he's screwed.
posted by octothorpe at 6:48 AM on June 14, 2016
posted by octothorpe at 6:48 AM on June 14, 2016
That would cause her to lose power also and basically seals her fate, for having cheated on a King, let alone a beloved one.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:51 AM on June 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:51 AM on June 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
I was cheering Jamie, and he coldly threw Bran out of a window in episode 1. Go team murderous incestuous psychopaths!
There was a nice subtle callback to that in this episode. While explaining his motivations to Edmure and threatening to kill his infant son, Jaime says (about Catelyn):
"She loved her children. I suppose all mothers do, but Catelyn and Cersei -- it's a fierceness you don't often see. They'd do anything to protect their babies -- start a war, burn cities to ash, free their worst enemies. The things we do for love."
Which is almost exactly what he said when he pushed Bran out the window: "The things I do for love."
Say what you want about child murder, at least it's an ethos.
posted by albrecht at 6:54 AM on June 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
There was a nice subtle callback to that in this episode. While explaining his motivations to Edmure and threatening to kill his infant son, Jaime says (about Catelyn):
"She loved her children. I suppose all mothers do, but Catelyn and Cersei -- it's a fierceness you don't often see. They'd do anything to protect their babies -- start a war, burn cities to ash, free their worst enemies. The things we do for love."
Which is almost exactly what he said when he pushed Bran out the window: "The things I do for love."
Say what you want about child murder, at least it's an ethos.
posted by albrecht at 6:54 AM on June 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
I was cheering Jamie, and he coldly threw Bran out of a window in episode 1.
And he said the same line again! The writers are definitely trying to remind us that Jamie is a no good very bad person, at the same time as making us root for him.
I still maintain that Cersei was going to kill Tommen at the Blackwater because she thought that they had lost and wanted to save him from the horrors to come.
Now, I think she might kill him because he is out of pocket and she believes the prophecy that says he will die anyways.
posted by sparklemotion at 6:57 AM on June 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
And he said the same line again! The writers are definitely trying to remind us that Jamie is a no good very bad person, at the same time as making us root for him.
I still maintain that Cersei was going to kill Tommen at the Blackwater because she thought that they had lost and wanted to save him from the horrors to come.
Now, I think she might kill him because he is out of pocket and she believes the prophecy that says he will die anyways.
posted by sparklemotion at 6:57 AM on June 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Now, I think she might kill him because he is out of pocket and she believes the prophecy that says he will die anyways.
Maybe? The character has the potential to do that, but if the writers decide otherwise or decide she'll do some other random thing, that's possible too. It's pointless to speculate, as the ink is already dry on what scene chewing will be done.
Yeah, I'm still bitter about last episode.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:07 AM on June 14, 2016
Maybe? The character has the potential to do that, but if the writers decide otherwise or decide she'll do some other random thing, that's possible too. It's pointless to speculate, as the ink is already dry on what scene chewing will be done.
Yeah, I'm still bitter about last episode.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:07 AM on June 14, 2016
Brandon Blatcher: "That would cause her to lose power also and basically seals her fate, for having cheated on a King, let alone a beloved one."
Only if he calls her bluff. It's mutually assured destruction for both of them but she doesn't have a whole lot of cards left to play.
posted by octothorpe at 7:14 AM on June 14, 2016
Only if he calls her bluff. It's mutually assured destruction for both of them but she doesn't have a whole lot of cards left to play.
posted by octothorpe at 7:14 AM on June 14, 2016
It's pointless to speculate, as the ink is already dry on what scene chewing will be done.
When I read the first book, I realized that this was Not Like Other Fantasy when I got to the chapter that corresponded to S01E09. Nothing that I'd read in the genre prepared me for the death of the protagonist -- especially a protagonist who hadn't done anything wrong. In other series, a character like Ned Stark might be punished for failing to play the game correctly by maybe losing a kid, or a limb or something. But they don't chop his head off. (After this, I watched the first season and forswore reading the books because the TV experience is just better).
My point being, this is a show that is all about messing with your expectations -- which is why it's fun to speculate.
Because you're wrong a good chunk of the time -- whether you expect them to hew to standard hero's journey tropes (surely Robbs' quest for justice must end in success, right?), or whether you expect them to not go with what's typical (it's obvious that the Sand Snakes won't actually rise to power in Dorne--that would be far to cliched, right?)
I'm not a huge fan of fanfiction, but I really enjoy the theorizing and spitballing that happens in these threads, even when I disagree.
And I'm not going to pretend not to be disappointed by the way some of this stuff is working out (I really wanted the Faceless Men to tie into the larger arc, somehow). But I can hope for the best -- and, worst case, my tits and wines and dragon show disappoints me for an hour a week and then leaves me frustrated and wanting more for 10 months.
posted by sparklemotion at 8:17 AM on June 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
When I read the first book, I realized that this was Not Like Other Fantasy when I got to the chapter that corresponded to S01E09. Nothing that I'd read in the genre prepared me for the death of the protagonist -- especially a protagonist who hadn't done anything wrong. In other series, a character like Ned Stark might be punished for failing to play the game correctly by maybe losing a kid, or a limb or something. But they don't chop his head off. (After this, I watched the first season and forswore reading the books because the TV experience is just better).
My point being, this is a show that is all about messing with your expectations -- which is why it's fun to speculate.
Because you're wrong a good chunk of the time -- whether you expect them to hew to standard hero's journey tropes (surely Robbs' quest for justice must end in success, right?), or whether you expect them to not go with what's typical (it's obvious that the Sand Snakes won't actually rise to power in Dorne--that would be far to cliched, right?)
I'm not a huge fan of fanfiction, but I really enjoy the theorizing and spitballing that happens in these threads, even when I disagree.
And I'm not going to pretend not to be disappointed by the way some of this stuff is working out (I really wanted the Faceless Men to tie into the larger arc, somehow). But I can hope for the best -- and, worst case, my tits and wines and dragon show disappoints me for an hour a week and then leaves me frustrated and wanting more for 10 months.
posted by sparklemotion at 8:17 AM on June 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
One thing that did strike me was: holy shit, this episode was violent as hell in a visceral way that it hasn't been for a long time. The Hound's axe-swinging, the Mountain's head-ripping.
It felt like the sequencing of those scenes was deliberate, to set up a contrast to Jaime's resolution of the siege. Cold-blooded in its own way, in his threats to Edumure's family and men, but -- the Blackfish's offscreen death aside -- a bloodless solution.
The siege also demonstrates that Jaime has at least some of Tywin's tactical and diplomatic skills. Although maybe not all his ruthlessness: Tywin would probably have sacked the castle after talking his way into it, just as he did at King's Landing.
Will there be more consequences to Cersei unleashing the Mountain? The "oh by the way I'm banning trial by combat" thing felt like something that the High Sparrow had been keeping up his sleeve for a while -- he's not stupid and surely sees that Cersei has an unbeatable pet champion. But having him rip apart a member of the Faith feels like a bad move on her part.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:56 AM on June 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
It felt like the sequencing of those scenes was deliberate, to set up a contrast to Jaime's resolution of the siege. Cold-blooded in its own way, in his threats to Edumure's family and men, but -- the Blackfish's offscreen death aside -- a bloodless solution.
The siege also demonstrates that Jaime has at least some of Tywin's tactical and diplomatic skills. Although maybe not all his ruthlessness: Tywin would probably have sacked the castle after talking his way into it, just as he did at King's Landing.
Will there be more consequences to Cersei unleashing the Mountain? The "oh by the way I'm banning trial by combat" thing felt like something that the High Sparrow had been keeping up his sleeve for a while -- he's not stupid and surely sees that Cersei has an unbeatable pet champion. But having him rip apart a member of the Faith feels like a bad move on her part.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 11:56 AM on June 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
My point being, this is a show that is all about messing with your expectations --
Oh, I'm overall pleased to have the show messing with expectations. Jaime's peaceful end to the siege of RiverRun was great and really makes you pause. I was expecting to see some sort of warfare and then there's brilliant political move that just ends everything. Even the Hound's seemingly epic vengeance was a great twist that was handled with hilarious humor. It's the Arya story arc that ultimately fell flat.
It makes me leery of the battle for Winterfell, as it could end with the Starks not retaking their home, which *could* be a interesting twist, depending on how its done. But I don't have confidence that it'll be handled well, even if the Starks win. They look like underdogs now and foolish to be going up against such huge odds, so hopefully a victory by them will feel earned.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:28 PM on June 14, 2016
Oh, I'm overall pleased to have the show messing with expectations. Jaime's peaceful end to the siege of RiverRun was great and really makes you pause. I was expecting to see some sort of warfare and then there's brilliant political move that just ends everything. Even the Hound's seemingly epic vengeance was a great twist that was handled with hilarious humor. It's the Arya story arc that ultimately fell flat.
It makes me leery of the battle for Winterfell, as it could end with the Starks not retaking their home, which *could* be a interesting twist, depending on how its done. But I don't have confidence that it'll be handled well, even if the Starks win. They look like underdogs now and foolish to be going up against such huge odds, so hopefully a victory by them will feel earned.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:28 PM on June 14, 2016
All I hope for is that it's not a straightforward battle, with the Stark forces storming the gates or the Bolton forces riding out to meet them (a la Stannis, et al.) I'd like for all of the intrigue and politicking to mean something (and more than just Littlefinger rides in to save the day).
I might be OK with Littlefinger doing another heel-face-turn and betraying Sansa in a "When will you Starks learn not to trust me" kind of way.
Maybe Melisandra could actually do something useful.
Maybe Umber really is playing a con on Ramsey and aims to take him down from the inside.
Maybe we could get a full length shot of Sansa where she's not wearing some huge cloak so I can stop being paranoid about the one theory that I wish I hadn't thought of before.
posted by sparklemotion at 1:09 PM on June 14, 2016
I might be OK with Littlefinger doing another heel-face-turn and betraying Sansa in a "When will you Starks learn not to trust me" kind of way.
Maybe Melisandra could actually do something useful.
Maybe Umber really is playing a con on Ramsey and aims to take him down from the inside.
Maybe we could get a full length shot of Sansa where she's not wearing some huge cloak so I can stop being paranoid about the one theory that I wish I hadn't thought of before.
posted by sparklemotion at 1:09 PM on June 14, 2016
lol she's not three kids standing on each others' shoulders, this isn't that kind of show seriously though what theory
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:14 PM on June 14, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:14 PM on June 14, 2016 [17 favorites]
I felt that Jamie came up with a solution that acheived one of Brienne's goals, a relatively peaceful resolution, but of course, contrasted with Brienne's approach to accomplishing that goal. He's familiar with how the world should be (at least idealy for some) and how people should act, but expects pretty much the opposite but I had assumed he came up with his solution because of Brienne.
Like others, I did enjoy some of this episode by the terribleness of the Arya sequence was so bad it soured the entire experience.
posted by juiceCake at 1:16 PM on June 14, 2016
Like others, I did enjoy some of this episode by the terribleness of the Arya sequence was so bad it soured the entire experience.
posted by juiceCake at 1:16 PM on June 14, 2016
I wouldn't have to explain to Vincent Adultman how heirs to Winterfell get made.
posted by sparklemotion at 1:17 PM on June 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by sparklemotion at 1:17 PM on June 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
They would be fools if they made Sansa pregnant. There's nothing to gained from that, the audience would howl.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:18 PM on June 14, 2016
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:18 PM on June 14, 2016
I quite liked this episode.
I hope we see Varys return from his mission safe and sound. Of all the behind-the-scenes manipulators, he's by far my favourite. I thought Jamie was awesome, and the Hound was superb. I LOL'd when Bronn was speculating about what Jamie and Brienne were up to.
The best part for me was the "WTF's going on here?" look on Dany's face when she walked back in.
posted by essexjan at 1:27 PM on June 14, 2016
I hope we see Varys return from his mission safe and sound. Of all the behind-the-scenes manipulators, he's by far my favourite. I thought Jamie was awesome, and the Hound was superb. I LOL'd when Bronn was speculating about what Jamie and Brienne were up to.
The best part for me was the "WTF's going on here?" look on Dany's face when she walked back in.
posted by essexjan at 1:27 PM on June 14, 2016
The audience howls a lot.
I don't want any of this to happen, mind you, but I can see the battle going poorly for the good guys. Maybe help arrives, maybe not, but regardless, it's not enough. Sansa, watching from a safe vantage point knows that she can't win her home back... but she can save her brothers.
She kicks her horse to a gallop and rides towards the Bolton lines -- someone recognizes her as the Lady of Winterfell, and she demands a conference with Ramsay. There will be sneering on his part and speechifying dialogue on hers and she will explain how this one win gets him nothing if he can't unite the North. And in exchange for safe passage for Jon and Rickon, she will help him. And then she drops her cloak, but not the dagger that she is keeping poised at her distended belly.
The cheesy ending to this darkest timeline is Ramsay, moved by the idea of being a father and having an heir to continue his name, releases Jon and Rickon, calls off his men. The ending that would probably make me quit watching the show would be Ramsay saying something like "I'll make another" while he grabs the knife and stabs Sansa himself, in the worst possible sororal echo of recent events in Essos.
posted by sparklemotion at 1:30 PM on June 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
I don't want any of this to happen, mind you, but I can see the battle going poorly for the good guys. Maybe help arrives, maybe not, but regardless, it's not enough. Sansa, watching from a safe vantage point knows that she can't win her home back... but she can save her brothers.
She kicks her horse to a gallop and rides towards the Bolton lines -- someone recognizes her as the Lady of Winterfell, and she demands a conference with Ramsay. There will be sneering on his part and speechifying dialogue on hers and she will explain how this one win gets him nothing if he can't unite the North. And in exchange for safe passage for Jon and Rickon, she will help him. And then she drops her cloak, but not the dagger that she is keeping poised at her distended belly.
The cheesy ending to this darkest timeline is Ramsay, moved by the idea of being a father and having an heir to continue his name, releases Jon and Rickon, calls off his men. The ending that would probably make me quit watching the show would be Ramsay saying something like "I'll make another" while he grabs the knife and stabs Sansa himself, in the worst possible sororal echo of recent events in Essos.
posted by sparklemotion at 1:30 PM on June 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
I hope we see Varys return from his mission safe and sound.
I'm hoping that Varys is just going to go meet with Yara -- those two will be able to negotiate with each other pretty well I think.
posted by sparklemotion at 1:45 PM on June 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm hoping that Varys is just going to go meet with Yara -- those two will be able to negotiate with each other pretty well I think.
posted by sparklemotion at 1:45 PM on June 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
ah yes, that's come up before, but in this context pregnancy was insufficiently gross and horrible for it to occur to me as the thing she might be hiding
since this season seems to be Bryan Cogman Presents Game of Thrones that is almost certainly what is happening tho
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:51 PM on June 14, 2016
since this season seems to be Bryan Cogman Presents Game of Thrones that is almost certainly what is happening tho
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:51 PM on June 14, 2016
Oh yeah, the Umbers! That might be a double cross for Ramsey.
I'd be perfectly happy for the show to ignore reality on the possibility of Sansa being pregnant. That's a storyline that just doesn't need to be developed. Though her using it as bargaining chip with Ramsey could be narratively interesting. But I'm not sure he'd go for it and even if he did, the things he'd do to her this time around...ugh.
I suppose Baelish will show up in time with troops from the Vale, but what he considers a reward might not be what Sansa was thinking. Also, The Hound, along with the BWB and Brienne and Pod are also headed by North. So maybe more reunions? That would be cool.
I do like that theres a number of narrative possibilities on how the battle could go, just hoping that it won't be forced.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:43 PM on June 14, 2016
I'd be perfectly happy for the show to ignore reality on the possibility of Sansa being pregnant. That's a storyline that just doesn't need to be developed. Though her using it as bargaining chip with Ramsey could be narratively interesting. But I'm not sure he'd go for it and even if he did, the things he'd do to her this time around...ugh.
I suppose Baelish will show up in time with troops from the Vale, but what he considers a reward might not be what Sansa was thinking. Also, The Hound, along with the BWB and Brienne and Pod are also headed by North. So maybe more reunions? That would be cool.
I do like that theres a number of narrative possibilities on how the battle could go, just hoping that it won't be forced.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:43 PM on June 14, 2016
I would be kind of annoyed if they went for springing Sansa's pregnancy on the audience like that. Character-wise Sansa would have a good reason to eliminate any reminder of Ramsey and Westeros does have "moon tea." So if she were going to make the decision to keep the pregnancy, I'd rather have seen her have to make that decision, than to save it for shock value.
posted by RobotHero at 3:04 PM on June 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by RobotHero at 3:04 PM on June 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Here's how to blow people's minds at the Battle of Ice.
They had a spy on the inside, Jorah Mormont, who returned to Westeros to find a cure for Greyscale. He "offered" to help Ramsay and gives him greyscale... And wait what is that it's Dany coming in on a dragon. Jorah instant-ravened him (and it turns out the whole Mereen story was happening months before the Battle of Ice. It turns out, Dany knows a little something about Jon and want to lend some help to her...
posted by drezdn at 3:15 PM on June 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
They had a spy on the inside, Jorah Mormont, who returned to Westeros to find a cure for Greyscale. He "offered" to help Ramsay and gives him greyscale... And wait what is that it's Dany coming in on a dragon. Jorah instant-ravened him (and it turns out the whole Mereen story was happening months before the Battle of Ice. It turns out, Dany knows a little something about Jon and want to lend some help to her...
posted by drezdn at 3:15 PM on June 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
Oh hey... remember this? Maybe Petyr actually intends to keep his promise to Cersei.
posted by sparklemotion at 3:38 PM on June 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by sparklemotion at 3:38 PM on June 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think Little Finger will "betray" Sansa, by aligning himself with Ramsay, but then Little Finger will kill Ramsay, himself. But Sansa will kill Little Finger, anyway. That's what I think will happen.
Either that, or Lady Lyanna of Bear Island will go Yoda on Ramsay's ass, leaping and somersaulting and Ninja-ing her way through his entire army. She'll kill Ramsay, then at the last moment we discover that Ramsay was really Arya in disguise!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:39 PM on June 14, 2016
Either that, or Lady Lyanna of Bear Island will go Yoda on Ramsay's ass, leaping and somersaulting and Ninja-ing her way through his entire army. She'll kill Ramsay, then at the last moment we discover that Ramsay was really Arya in disguise!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:39 PM on June 14, 2016
1) If Sansa has the Bolton heir, and Ramsay becomes a fatality of the conflict, it could help unite the north.
2) Varys might be going to meet with, or about, a possible marriage for Daenarys.
posted by amtho at 4:25 PM on June 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
2) Varys might be going to meet with, or about, a possible marriage for Daenarys.
posted by amtho at 4:25 PM on June 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
Maybe the claim that Bear Island soldiers are worth ten men apiece is totally accurate (and Jorah Mormont is just an example of an average Bear Island fighter). Seeing 62 dudes like that go to town would be absolutely insane. So, uh, that's my prediction.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 4:47 PM on June 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by paper chromatographologist at 4:47 PM on June 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
I hope Clegain and the Brotherhood without Banners arrive to save the day.
posted by humanfont at 4:53 PM on June 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by humanfont at 4:53 PM on June 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
Although it would also be satisfying if Jamie got a raven from Cersei telling him she'd been betrayed and wasn't long for the world, releasing him from all vows, and forbidding him from coming back for her (to his certain death). So Jamie shows up to Winterfell, but kills Ramsay instead of fighting with him, then makes his way to Walter Frey, and wipes them out, too.
Not saying I think it's going to happen. Just saying it would be satisfying. If he didn't have his love for Cersei, he might choose a different path.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:30 PM on June 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Not saying I think it's going to happen. Just saying it would be satisfying. If he didn't have his love for Cersei, he might choose a different path.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:30 PM on June 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
I can't see any situation where Jaime ends up fighting for Ramsay. He has no personal motivation to, and apparently by order of the king, Ramsay has no right to Winterfell anyways (if Cersei really had Tommen sign that decree naming Littlefinger).
If there were more episodes between now and the battle, I could see Littlefinger using the decree (and the fact that Jaime and the Lannister army are newly unencumbered) to try to press Jaime into the fight.
posted by sparklemotion at 5:45 PM on June 14, 2016
If there were more episodes between now and the battle, I could see Littlefinger using the decree (and the fact that Jaime and the Lannister army are newly unencumbered) to try to press Jaime into the fight.
posted by sparklemotion at 5:45 PM on June 14, 2016
Yeah I think Sansa is pregnant. Ramsey will end up in a cell in the vale so that we can hear him be all silence of lambs to Sansa's agent starling next season.
posted by about_time at 6:41 PM on June 14, 2016
posted by about_time at 6:41 PM on June 14, 2016
They really, really need to kill Ramsay. Not just Sandsnake him away to 'off camera island'. They need to definitively kill him, and tell the audience that he's never coming back. He's a huge drag on what should be one of the most interesting settings of the show.
posted by codacorolla at 8:20 AM on June 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by codacorolla at 8:20 AM on June 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Oh please god no.
this is when I know a fan theory is plausible
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:08 AM on June 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
this is when I know a fan theory is plausible
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:08 AM on June 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
What if...Lady Mormant is really Tyrion in disguise, as he's been working with the Faceless Men, so that the attack on Winterfull will include the surprise of the two dragons he's become friends with?
You heard it here first!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:35 AM on June 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
You heard it here first!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:35 AM on June 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
I think Sansa is pregnant with twins. One will be human and the other will be a lizard. The virus that kills the lizard baby days after birth will be replicated into a dust that can be dropped from the air and used to not only kill Ramsey but the undead north of the wall by three dragon riders: the remaining twin, baby Sam, and nymeria.
posted by about_time at 2:20 PM on June 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by about_time at 2:20 PM on June 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Lizard=dragon
Sansa=mother of dragon
Sansa=secret Targ?
{\}
posted by Night_owl at 3:46 PM on June 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Sansa=mother of dragon
Sansa=secret Targ?
{\}
posted by Night_owl at 3:46 PM on June 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
He's a huge drag on
I did NOT see that coming.
posted by crossoverman at 7:50 PM on June 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
I did NOT see that coming.
posted by crossoverman at 7:50 PM on June 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Having Ramsay turn into a dragon in the Bastard Bowl this week wouldn't surprise me at all at this point. It would also explain how he was able to completely destroy Stannis' camp.
posted by codacorolla at 8:51 AM on June 16, 2016
posted by codacorolla at 8:51 AM on June 16, 2016
He also needed "20 good men," so clearly Ramsey is Voltron
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:12 AM on June 16, 2016
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:12 AM on June 16, 2016
Crappy vehicle Voltron, maybe.
posted by The Tensor at 11:10 AM on June 16, 2016
posted by The Tensor at 11:10 AM on June 16, 2016
Jeeze. Talk about impossible to please. So far this season we've had:
Everybody's Favorite Bastard's resurrection
Tyrion face-to-face with unchained dragons
Mother of Dragons, the Unburnt hosting a Khal BBQ/Lock-in
More dragon riding than Neverending Story
Dany and Jorah's bittersweet reunion
Hold the door
Theon and Yara together again and stealing the fleet
The ascension of Sansa and her reunion with zombie Jon
The return of Benjen
A girl is Anya Stark...
i got chills just typing that. YMOV
posted by HyperBlue at 2:16 PM on June 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Everybody's Favorite Bastard's resurrection
Tyrion face-to-face with unchained dragons
Mother of Dragons, the Unburnt hosting a Khal BBQ/Lock-in
More dragon riding than Neverending Story
Dany and Jorah's bittersweet reunion
Hold the door
Theon and Yara together again and stealing the fleet
The ascension of Sansa and her reunion with zombie Jon
The return of Benjen
A girl is Anya Stark...
i got chills just typing that. YMOV
posted by HyperBlue at 2:16 PM on June 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
A girl is Arya Stark of Winterfell, and I am going home.
Arya died. No, seriously, it's the only thing that makes sense of this episode. The Waif, as we know her, has always been someone else just wearing that face. (Maybe several someones, who knows?). Maybe because that's the uniform for whoever is fulfilling those duties, maybe long-term disguise is a later part of the training (whatshisname kept up his identity for quite a while when Arya first met him, after all), maybe it's a requirement for anonymity, whatever. Anyway, the waif is perfectly happy to cause such a scene in broad daylight because she knows she can leave that face behind after completing the mission. It also explains why we don't see (or hear!) the fight scene: the waif killed the much less skilled, grievously wounded, exhausted Arya, retrieves her face and clothes, and returns the waif-face to the temple. The line above isn't Arya reclaiming her identity, it's the waif claiming it, ready to go to westeros and use Arya's face to get into position as the Faceless Men's agent in a crucial place for the upcoming conflict there. It's why she's changed from wanting to find out what's West of westeros to "going home". And so the guy's weird, satisfied half-smile is because he's satisfied to see the waif having completed the first half of her task and ready to head out to the second.
I know it sounds half-baked, but there's so much about the Arya plot this episode that only makes sense this way. And the only argument against it is that the person who walked away from a confrontation between a wounded Arya and a master assassin with magic powers of disguise looked like Arya.
posted by metaBugs at 4:29 PM on June 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
Arya died. No, seriously, it's the only thing that makes sense of this episode. The Waif, as we know her, has always been someone else just wearing that face. (Maybe several someones, who knows?). Maybe because that's the uniform for whoever is fulfilling those duties, maybe long-term disguise is a later part of the training (whatshisname kept up his identity for quite a while when Arya first met him, after all), maybe it's a requirement for anonymity, whatever. Anyway, the waif is perfectly happy to cause such a scene in broad daylight because she knows she can leave that face behind after completing the mission. It also explains why we don't see (or hear!) the fight scene: the waif killed the much less skilled, grievously wounded, exhausted Arya, retrieves her face and clothes, and returns the waif-face to the temple. The line above isn't Arya reclaiming her identity, it's the waif claiming it, ready to go to westeros and use Arya's face to get into position as the Faceless Men's agent in a crucial place for the upcoming conflict there. It's why she's changed from wanting to find out what's West of westeros to "going home". And so the guy's weird, satisfied half-smile is because he's satisfied to see the waif having completed the first half of her task and ready to head out to the second.
I know it sounds half-baked, but there's so much about the Arya plot this episode that only makes sense this way. And the only argument against it is that the person who walked away from a confrontation between a wounded Arya and a master assassin with magic powers of disguise looked like Arya.
posted by metaBugs at 4:29 PM on June 16, 2016 [12 favorites]
Retrieving Needle was Arya Stark reclaiming her identity, and the two episodes since are basically just rationalizing why she can do that without fear that faceless men will hunt her down.
posted by RobotHero at 5:24 PM on June 16, 2016
posted by RobotHero at 5:24 PM on June 16, 2016
Jeeze. Talk about impossible to please. So far this season we've had:
Everybody's Favorite Bastard's resurrection
That was fine. Would have been a bit better if they had faded to black like the episode was over and then audio of a breath intake, then the visual of Jon waking up.
Tyrion face-to-face with unchained dragons
That was a nice scene! Which they haven't revisited at all, not even a mention as Tyrion sat around trying to make Grey Worm laugh. Don't you think that should come up in conversation?
Mother of Dragons, the Unburnt hosting a Khal BBQ/Lock-in
Finally some forward movement in that storyline!
More dragon riding than Neverending Story
Nice effects, but they really haven't revisited that.
Dany and Jorah's bittersweet reunion
This was a very good scene
Hold the door
Moving and heartfelt reveal, but there's still so little we know about the children or whatever is in that damn Tower.
Theon and Yara together again and stealing the fleet
Great developments here, though Euron's "build me a 1,000 ships" was silly.
The ascension of Sansa and her reunion with zombie Jon
Definitely good to see her coming into her own, but she's still got a lot of work to do and the writers seem determined to make the process slow as hell.
The return of Benjen
Eh, we saw him for 2 minutes six years ago, so it's not like we knew him enough to miss him.
A girl is Anya Stark...
They could have done this last season and brought her back this season to handle Walder Frey and other other people.
Mind you, this has been a much better season that the last. But it's not beyond criticism at all and there have been some notable missteps. Here's hoping they end the season strong rather than weakly as this last episode hints.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:28 PM on June 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Everybody's Favorite Bastard's resurrection
That was fine. Would have been a bit better if they had faded to black like the episode was over and then audio of a breath intake, then the visual of Jon waking up.
Tyrion face-to-face with unchained dragons
That was a nice scene! Which they haven't revisited at all, not even a mention as Tyrion sat around trying to make Grey Worm laugh. Don't you think that should come up in conversation?
Mother of Dragons, the Unburnt hosting a Khal BBQ/Lock-in
Finally some forward movement in that storyline!
More dragon riding than Neverending Story
Nice effects, but they really haven't revisited that.
Dany and Jorah's bittersweet reunion
This was a very good scene
Hold the door
Moving and heartfelt reveal, but there's still so little we know about the children or whatever is in that damn Tower.
Theon and Yara together again and stealing the fleet
Great developments here, though Euron's "build me a 1,000 ships" was silly.
The ascension of Sansa and her reunion with zombie Jon
Definitely good to see her coming into her own, but she's still got a lot of work to do and the writers seem determined to make the process slow as hell.
The return of Benjen
Eh, we saw him for 2 minutes six years ago, so it's not like we knew him enough to miss him.
A girl is Anya Stark...
They could have done this last season and brought her back this season to handle Walder Frey and other other people.
Mind you, this has been a much better season that the last. But it's not beyond criticism at all and there have been some notable missteps. Here's hoping they end the season strong rather than weakly as this last episode hints.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:28 PM on June 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I agree with RobotHero's explanation of what will turn out to have happened. But I agree that metaBugs explanation would be better.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:32 PM on June 16, 2016
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:32 PM on June 16, 2016
metaBugs takes the threat of a face-changing assassin cult more seriously.
I wasn't so much trying to predict anything there, but was explaining that the "A girl is Arya Stark" line felt less important to me than the scene where she pulled Needle out from under a rock.
posted by RobotHero at 9:36 PM on June 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
I wasn't so much trying to predict anything there, but was explaining that the "A girl is Arya Stark" line felt less important to me than the scene where she pulled Needle out from under a rock.
posted by RobotHero at 9:36 PM on June 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
I feel like this season is giving me deja vu. The last big events of the season will be a battle with the Boltons, and Cersei's trial. Weren't those the last big events of last season?
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:44 PM on June 16, 2016
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:44 PM on June 16, 2016
Last season, the big battle was in episode 8, while Cersei's walk of shame was in episode 10. Episode 9 had the open revolt in Merreen, Drogon appearing to save Dany and then flying off with her.
So yeah, kinda similar.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:09 AM on June 17, 2016
So yeah, kinda similar.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:09 AM on June 17, 2016
Prediction for next episode: During the battle for Winterfell, white walkers show up, inviting a Bolton-Stark alliance.
posted by amtho at 7:14 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by amtho at 7:14 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
I really like the theory that the person we see in the final scene declaring herself to be Arya Stark is really the Waif. At least a couple of things would make sense in this fiasco of an arc: first of all, how she totally Inigo Montoya-ed all her gut wounds for that scene. Secondly, I was weirded out by Jaqen saying "finally a girl is no-one". It doesn't make sense - why would Arya have become no-one by defeating the Waif? But if the Waif had put her own face on the wall and started to wear Arya's, that would indicate a pretty efficient and permanent erasure of identity. Maybe this is something all Faceless Men do as their final step?
I got so curious I quickly watched that final scene again. "Arya" is holding her sword in her left hand, but a good FM imitator would do that, right? She blames Jaqen: You told her to kill me. We're assuming this is Arya blaming him for siccing the Waif on her, but maybe it was the other way around. We don't know everything that went down between Arya and Jaqen after she refused the theatre assassination gig.
And finally, this would explain the weird satisfied smirk on Jaqen's face when "Arya" walks out. Things are going according to some kind of plan... Whereas if it were Arya dropping out of assassination school, you'd assume him to look a bit less smug.
Do I believe this theory? Nah, not really. I think the show is more straightforward than that. But it would have been a great twist for the audience to find out way, way later that actually, their favourite character died in S6 already. And a clever way to work around the promise I've heard GRRM has made to his wife, that Arya won't get nixed. (Not so sure if keeping Arya's body in the story as a false identity for a FM would qualify as character "not dying" according to Mrs Martin, though...)
posted by sively at 8:29 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
I got so curious I quickly watched that final scene again. "Arya" is holding her sword in her left hand, but a good FM imitator would do that, right? She blames Jaqen: You told her to kill me. We're assuming this is Arya blaming him for siccing the Waif on her, but maybe it was the other way around. We don't know everything that went down between Arya and Jaqen after she refused the theatre assassination gig.
And finally, this would explain the weird satisfied smirk on Jaqen's face when "Arya" walks out. Things are going according to some kind of plan... Whereas if it were Arya dropping out of assassination school, you'd assume him to look a bit less smug.
Do I believe this theory? Nah, not really. I think the show is more straightforward than that. But it would have been a great twist for the audience to find out way, way later that actually, their favourite character died in S6 already. And a clever way to work around the promise I've heard GRRM has made to his wife, that Arya won't get nixed. (Not so sure if keeping Arya's body in the story as a false identity for a FM would qualify as character "not dying" according to Mrs Martin, though...)
posted by sively at 8:29 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
I keep thinking of additional details that make my theory seem more a plausible fit, basically none of which have any evidence to support them. This must be how it feels at the start of a new fanfiction, conspiracy theory, or religion.
(But the "Faceless Men" thing is totally literal -- we had been seeing the Waif's true face all along, but she finally cast it off in some horrifying ritualised self-mutilation and added it to the library. This is the final step required to graduate, and what Jaquen means by "finally a girl is no-one": she has taken the final step in giving up her previous identity, and now has a life only of borrowed faces. Which obviously implies that we've never seen Jaquen's true face, and so the reason we've only ever seen one of the Faceless Men is that "Jaquen" is actually just whoever's on shift that day. Arya's bad behaviour was tolerated because she could plausibly have been a useful tool if she had joined up, but got handed to the Waif for study -- under all sorts of conditions and stresses -- when it became clear that the Waif would need to become her. Etc. etc.)
Do I believe this theory? Nah, not really.
Eh, you're probably right. I think it'd be a fun direction to take the story -- and perhaps the only possible satisfying payoff for this whole years-long arc and the creepy promise of the Faceless Men's powers -- but unless they handle the reveal incredibly carefully, I think most fans will end up hating it and the writers. Arya is one of very few characters whom the audience have liked consistently and from the very beginning of the story; people are invested in her. A sudden reveal that the person we've been watching and caring about isn't actually Arya will feel like a betrayal by the storytellers on the level of "...and then they woke up and it was all a dream!" and, I think, really shake people's willingness to trust the writers enough to invest in the story as a whole. I don't think the writers have been that brave or devious lately.
posted by metaBugs at 10:53 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
(But the "Faceless Men" thing is totally literal -- we had been seeing the Waif's true face all along, but she finally cast it off in some horrifying ritualised self-mutilation and added it to the library. This is the final step required to graduate, and what Jaquen means by "finally a girl is no-one": she has taken the final step in giving up her previous identity, and now has a life only of borrowed faces. Which obviously implies that we've never seen Jaquen's true face, and so the reason we've only ever seen one of the Faceless Men is that "Jaquen" is actually just whoever's on shift that day. Arya's bad behaviour was tolerated because she could plausibly have been a useful tool if she had joined up, but got handed to the Waif for study -- under all sorts of conditions and stresses -- when it became clear that the Waif would need to become her. Etc. etc.)
Do I believe this theory? Nah, not really.
Eh, you're probably right. I think it'd be a fun direction to take the story -- and perhaps the only possible satisfying payoff for this whole years-long arc and the creepy promise of the Faceless Men's powers -- but unless they handle the reveal incredibly carefully, I think most fans will end up hating it and the writers. Arya is one of very few characters whom the audience have liked consistently and from the very beginning of the story; people are invested in her. A sudden reveal that the person we've been watching and caring about isn't actually Arya will feel like a betrayal by the storytellers on the level of "...and then they woke up and it was all a dream!" and, I think, really shake people's willingness to trust the writers enough to invest in the story as a whole. I don't think the writers have been that brave or devious lately.
posted by metaBugs at 10:53 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
I would have been okay with the Waif chase if Arya had not been dealing with a bunch of stab wounds to the gut. It broke my suspension of disbelief. Beyond that I'm okay with the whole parkour Terminator thing, as long as the show doesn't make a big habit of it.
But I loved how it ended and was glad it cut away on the candle slice. I'd rather imagine what went on than hear the sounds of scuffling.
posted by brundlefly at 10:59 AM on June 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
But I loved how it ended and was glad it cut away on the candle slice. I'd rather imagine what went on than hear the sounds of scuffling.
posted by brundlefly at 10:59 AM on June 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
I think the major advantage of cutting off the main character's head in season one is that everything from that point on gets thoroughly flipped and examined and theorized.
The downside is that people will come up with cool narrative bending awesomeness that is maybe better than what you end up doing.
I feel like as a result the surprises have become inverted. People expect "big crazy things" then ordinary things happen and we're all a little bummed out.
Additionally I become numb to big shocks as the series goes on. Like I can't imagine anyone's death/resurrection/miracle-survival would shock me now and that's a challenge the show has. It's hallmark was being shocking but it's played that hand and now has to finish the game with a new one.
posted by French Fry at 11:24 AM on June 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
The downside is that people will come up with cool narrative bending awesomeness that is maybe better than what you end up doing.
I feel like as a result the surprises have become inverted. People expect "big crazy things" then ordinary things happen and we're all a little bummed out.
Additionally I become numb to big shocks as the series goes on. Like I can't imagine anyone's death/resurrection/miracle-survival would shock me now and that's a challenge the show has. It's hallmark was being shocking but it's played that hand and now has to finish the game with a new one.
posted by French Fry at 11:24 AM on June 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
You'll totally be shocked when you find out that no Starks were killed in the making of this television entertainment. The entire Stark family has been hiding out at the House of Black and White since episode 1.
Jon Snow is totally dead, though.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:30 PM on June 17, 2016
Jon Snow is totally dead, though.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:30 PM on June 17, 2016
It would be interesting if Jon was killed and then brought back yet again. He didn't seem too pleased about that the first time. Plus, each time someone is brought back, they lose a bit of something in themselves, at least according to that Benderic guy from the Brotherhood. But he still seems ok, can plot and think ahead, have a laugh.
Jon just seems more moody than before. Not surprising, I guess.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:49 PM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Jon just seems more moody than before. Not surprising, I guess.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:49 PM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
I love it! They should go total Kenny with Jon. Kill him off in inventive and improbable ways at the end of every episode. Then at the beginning of every episode, Melisandre has to bring him back, more and more begrudgingly every time. And every time he comes back looking a little worse, and more pissed about it than the last time. I would watch the shit out of that show.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:53 PM on June 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:53 PM on June 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
This is the most sad, and unintentionally hilarious, image from the 'No One' episode
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:38 PM on June 17, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:38 PM on June 17, 2016 [8 favorites]
the "Faceless Men" thing is totally literal
This... would make sense. A clue hidden wonderfully in plain sight, too.
Also, the Waif-as-Arya theory would explain why their final battle just cut to black. Ha, I can imagine the showrunners biting their tongues as they hear the Internet howl with disappointment and derision, not being able to reveal that there were reasons for why the arc ended the way it did, not just shitty writing and pinching on the costs of battle choreography. (Which I do think are the real reasons. And this theory still wouldn't explain Arya's miraculous parkour with a punctured gut.)
It is interesting to try to imagine why the FM would be sending one of theirs to Westeros as Arya. It couldn't be for just an assassination gig. It would have to be something bigger, like... a coup, or a grand scale conspiracy... If Arya's path somehow crosses with Varys, I'll be pointing at my TV and doing a Body Snatcher scream.
I fully expect this one to go into the big pile of "GoT theories that are more interesting than the actual show". But I admit that unless Arya's gut wounds get some screen time in the next few episodes, I'll be wondering in the back of my mind... And looking for signs of Arya not being Arya.
posted by sively at 4:04 AM on June 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
This... would make sense. A clue hidden wonderfully in plain sight, too.
Also, the Waif-as-Arya theory would explain why their final battle just cut to black. Ha, I can imagine the showrunners biting their tongues as they hear the Internet howl with disappointment and derision, not being able to reveal that there were reasons for why the arc ended the way it did, not just shitty writing and pinching on the costs of battle choreography. (Which I do think are the real reasons. And this theory still wouldn't explain Arya's miraculous parkour with a punctured gut.)
It is interesting to try to imagine why the FM would be sending one of theirs to Westeros as Arya. It couldn't be for just an assassination gig. It would have to be something bigger, like... a coup, or a grand scale conspiracy... If Arya's path somehow crosses with Varys, I'll be pointing at my TV and doing a Body Snatcher scream.
I fully expect this one to go into the big pile of "GoT theories that are more interesting than the actual show". But I admit that unless Arya's gut wounds get some screen time in the next few episodes, I'll be wondering in the back of my mind... And looking for signs of Arya not being Arya.
posted by sively at 4:04 AM on June 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
But the Arya as waif has one major problem. The waif face was put on the wall of faces all bloody and dripping while other faces were not done that way. The true waif would presumably know how to properly put the face on the wall.
posted by srboisvert at 8:03 AM on June 18, 2016
posted by srboisvert at 8:03 AM on June 18, 2016
Was it the Waif's face? Would trueArya putting a bloody face up there not be taked as a sign of disrespect? Why would she even do that? Did true Arya even have the skill to cut off a face?!
And what would be purpose of becoming Arya?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:21 AM on June 18, 2016
And what would be purpose of becoming Arya?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:21 AM on June 18, 2016
But, others also consider it a possibility. They're wrong.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:43 PM on June 18, 2016
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:43 PM on June 18, 2016
But the Arya as waif has one major problem. The waif face was put on the wall of faces all bloody and dripping while other faces were not done that way. The true waif would presumably know how to properly put the face on the wall.
The other faces were removed from corpses after their death. The WaifArya would have had to remove her own Waif face while still alive (I can't believe I just typed that sentence), which might be a bit... messier. Also, it looks more badass.
Would trueArya putting a bloody face up there not be taked as a sign of disrespect? Why would she even do that? Did true Arya even have the skill to cut off a face?!
Yeah, why not just kill the Waif and leave the city - why return to the temple to gloat with your bloody DIY project? (I mean, in reality the answer is "so that we can have a dramatic crowdpleaser of a scene where Arya declares her true identity". Sigh.)
And what would be purpose of becoming Arya?
We'd need to know who the FM got the assignment from. But nah, this is another weak point of the theory. I can't imagine a scenario where having a WaifArya in Westeros/the North/Winterfell (what is 'home' anyway?) could be a major advantage to anyone. Maybe if there were a way to finagle her onto the Iron Throne, but I can't imagine how. (Would be kind of funny though, to have no-one on the Throne in the end. Just like in Dany's vision...)
posted by sively at 2:46 PM on June 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
The other faces were removed from corpses after their death. The WaifArya would have had to remove her own Waif face while still alive (I can't believe I just typed that sentence), which might be a bit... messier. Also, it looks more badass.
Would trueArya putting a bloody face up there not be taked as a sign of disrespect? Why would she even do that? Did true Arya even have the skill to cut off a face?!
Yeah, why not just kill the Waif and leave the city - why return to the temple to gloat with your bloody DIY project? (I mean, in reality the answer is "so that we can have a dramatic crowdpleaser of a scene where Arya declares her true identity". Sigh.)
And what would be purpose of becoming Arya?
We'd need to know who the FM got the assignment from. But nah, this is another weak point of the theory. I can't imagine a scenario where having a WaifArya in Westeros/the North/Winterfell (what is 'home' anyway?) could be a major advantage to anyone. Maybe if there were a way to finagle her onto the Iron Throne, but I can't imagine how. (Would be kind of funny though, to have no-one on the Throne in the end. Just like in Dany's vision...)
posted by sively at 2:46 PM on June 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
Let's remember that master assassin Sexy Jesus was in chains and on his way to the Wall and when he met Arya by chance. The only way this can make sense is that he was there on purpose (magic!) and that the FM are part of some big old conspiracy/prophecy concerning Arya, e.g. she's the Many-faced God's Chosen One or whatever.
posted by elgilito at 2:54 PM on June 18, 2016
posted by elgilito at 2:54 PM on June 18, 2016
Let's remember that master assassin Sexy Jesus was in chains and on his way to the Wall and when he met Arya by chance.
Exactly, when she was running and hiding. If the Pointless Men wanted to swap one of their own in for Arya, why not just kill her when she showed up at the House of Black and White? Or why even wait that long and play games with her?
The theory just doesn't make any sense. But then again, neither does most of Arya's story arc in Braavos. I *guess* it was Jaqen's way of making Arya choose who she wanted to be, but there's no real reason why he would or should care. Other than wanting to put the more agreeable Starks (as opposed to the Lannisters) back in power. The Pointless Men do seem to be about justice. Unless a lesser actress wants another greater actress dead, then that's ok. The House of Black and White was huge, it's probably a helluva mortgage payment, so one takes work where one can get it.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:03 PM on June 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
Exactly, when she was running and hiding. If the Pointless Men wanted to swap one of their own in for Arya, why not just kill her when she showed up at the House of Black and White? Or why even wait that long and play games with her?
The theory just doesn't make any sense. But then again, neither does most of Arya's story arc in Braavos. I *guess* it was Jaqen's way of making Arya choose who she wanted to be, but there's no real reason why he would or should care. Other than wanting to put the more agreeable Starks (as opposed to the Lannisters) back in power. The Pointless Men do seem to be about justice. Unless a lesser actress wants another greater actress dead, then that's ok. The House of Black and White was huge, it's probably a helluva mortgage payment, so one takes work where one can get it.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:03 PM on June 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
Maybe taking just Arya's face was their plan B, if they failed to indoctrinate her? Which they did.
Or maybe they needed the Waif to study her and get to know all about her? (Not that the two had many heart to heart chats... I blame the competitive atmosphere at the murder school.)
Wrt justice, it seems to be just purely mathematics to the FM. Their god expects a certain number of deaths, and isn't that picky about who it is. (Maybe the FM really want to stop the White Walkers from undeading everyone in the Arctic? By my account, the WW owe the many-faced-god a lot of deaths.)
Alright, I'll quit defending a theory I don't believe in. It's just my brain refusing to accept that the Braavos story was as stupid as it was...
posted by sively at 3:20 PM on June 18, 2016
Or maybe they needed the Waif to study her and get to know all about her? (Not that the two had many heart to heart chats... I blame the competitive atmosphere at the murder school.)
Wrt justice, it seems to be just purely mathematics to the FM. Their god expects a certain number of deaths, and isn't that picky about who it is. (Maybe the FM really want to stop the White Walkers from undeading everyone in the Arctic? By my account, the WW owe the many-faced-god a lot of deaths.)
Alright, I'll quit defending a theory I don't believe in. It's just my brain refusing to accept that the Braavos story was as stupid as it was...
posted by sively at 3:20 PM on June 18, 2016
I do find the idea of it fascinating and it would work with a different character or a different Arya. But at this point, we've spent so much time with Arya, rooting for her, that to change her up accomplishs nothing, while pissing off the audience. Check out the Spider-Man Clone saga for a glimpse how well this would go over.
Fact of the matter is that as far as we know at this point, the writers simply screwed up Arya's Braavos storyline. They needed something to do with Arya, who's quite popular, so they couldn't shuttle her off for a year, as they did with Bran. Thus a season and half of Arya training to be something, only to learn she wanted something else, something we the audience wanted her for: to be Arya Stark and return to Westeros, hopefully to deliver some vengeance to certain parties and help reclaim Winterfell and/or her family name. We knew this was gonna happen when she hid Needle away instead of throwing it away.
But they could have done so much with the Braavos story, something that really showed Arya's growth. They should have focused on her need and search for some sort of family and investigated how they would turn out if it wasn't actual family.
Namely, the Waif shouldn't have been so hateful of Arya, at least at first. She should have training Arya, been harsh with her yes, but coming to grudging respect/admiration, with the same occurring in Arya. Include a few other students in the House and with Arya becoming sort of friends with some of them.
Then she "fucks up" by killing Trant, which makes the others leery of her. To Arya it's natural to have done that, but to the others it's so wrong, because the Pointless Men don't kill for their own desires. That she did and Jaqen doesn't immediately throw her out is what starts the Waifs outright hatred and few other students becoming distant.
Arya tries to atone for her sins, because she really does want to be part of a family or group. So she accepts the blindness and tries to do better, just as in the show. We see her get better at fighting blind, something we didn't see on the show.
She's eventually given her sight back and generally behaves and the other students warm up to her somewhat. But not the Waif. We should see a scene of the Waif arguing with Jaqen about Arya being allowed to stay on.
Then the order for killing the actress is given, with the same results: Arya can't do it and in fact warns her. The other students shun her, Arya realizes this group really isn't and never can be her family, so she splits and hides, as we saw her do in the room in the dark.
The bridge scene would have to change though. The market scene before it, where she books passage is ok. It's a bit strange to see Arya acting as she was, but she was trying to appear more grown and ultimately she smoothly books passage on her own terms and smartly holds out the money until she's actually gonna be on the ship. That makes sense.
On the bridge, she should be seen with Needle, admiring the sunset. The old woman approaches her, Arya is wary, but they eventually start talking, with Arya smartly keeping a bit of physical distance. The old woman would tell a story, something that relaxes Arya a little bit, they share a laugh maybe, but Arya still manages to block the sneak attack from behind her. There's 2 or three attacking her from all sides, one of them being The Waif and Arya's stabbed maybe once or twice, NOT IN THE DAMN STOMACH, but manages to get away in a similar manner, using Needle to damage her attackers.
Everything else can proceed as it did, with the Waif hunting her down, but it's a bit more obvious that Arya is leading her into a trap.
Same result in the end, we just get a deeper study of Arya as a character, none of the stupid stuff she did on the bridge and a more nuanced portrait of The Waif.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:01 PM on June 18, 2016 [5 favorites]
Fact of the matter is that as far as we know at this point, the writers simply screwed up Arya's Braavos storyline. They needed something to do with Arya, who's quite popular, so they couldn't shuttle her off for a year, as they did with Bran. Thus a season and half of Arya training to be something, only to learn she wanted something else, something we the audience wanted her for: to be Arya Stark and return to Westeros, hopefully to deliver some vengeance to certain parties and help reclaim Winterfell and/or her family name. We knew this was gonna happen when she hid Needle away instead of throwing it away.
But they could have done so much with the Braavos story, something that really showed Arya's growth. They should have focused on her need and search for some sort of family and investigated how they would turn out if it wasn't actual family.
Namely, the Waif shouldn't have been so hateful of Arya, at least at first. She should have training Arya, been harsh with her yes, but coming to grudging respect/admiration, with the same occurring in Arya. Include a few other students in the House and with Arya becoming sort of friends with some of them.
Then she "fucks up" by killing Trant, which makes the others leery of her. To Arya it's natural to have done that, but to the others it's so wrong, because the Pointless Men don't kill for their own desires. That she did and Jaqen doesn't immediately throw her out is what starts the Waifs outright hatred and few other students becoming distant.
Arya tries to atone for her sins, because she really does want to be part of a family or group. So she accepts the blindness and tries to do better, just as in the show. We see her get better at fighting blind, something we didn't see on the show.
She's eventually given her sight back and generally behaves and the other students warm up to her somewhat. But not the Waif. We should see a scene of the Waif arguing with Jaqen about Arya being allowed to stay on.
Then the order for killing the actress is given, with the same results: Arya can't do it and in fact warns her. The other students shun her, Arya realizes this group really isn't and never can be her family, so she splits and hides, as we saw her do in the room in the dark.
The bridge scene would have to change though. The market scene before it, where she books passage is ok. It's a bit strange to see Arya acting as she was, but she was trying to appear more grown and ultimately she smoothly books passage on her own terms and smartly holds out the money until she's actually gonna be on the ship. That makes sense.
On the bridge, she should be seen with Needle, admiring the sunset. The old woman approaches her, Arya is wary, but they eventually start talking, with Arya smartly keeping a bit of physical distance. The old woman would tell a story, something that relaxes Arya a little bit, they share a laugh maybe, but Arya still manages to block the sneak attack from behind her. There's 2 or three attacking her from all sides, one of them being The Waif and Arya's stabbed maybe once or twice, NOT IN THE DAMN STOMACH, but manages to get away in a similar manner, using Needle to damage her attackers.
Everything else can proceed as it did, with the Waif hunting her down, but it's a bit more obvious that Arya is leading her into a trap.
Same result in the end, we just get a deeper study of Arya as a character, none of the stupid stuff she did on the bridge and a more nuanced portrait of The Waif.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:01 PM on June 18, 2016 [5 favorites]
I just watched the end again and did a freeze frame on the face. The features could be either, but the hair looks like it's Arya's hair length, not the (shorter) hair the waif has/had. I hadn't previously put much credence into the theories about it not being. Arya, but now I'm not sure if we had Arya or faux-Arya at the end.
Huh. If this is what they're doing and they pull it off with some measure of panache, I'll be impressed.
posted by rmd1023 at 7:34 PM on June 18, 2016
Huh. If this is what they're doing and they pull it off with some measure of panache, I'll be impressed.
posted by rmd1023 at 7:34 PM on June 18, 2016
Here's a lightened screenshot of The Waif's face in the Hall of Faces.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:56 PM on June 18, 2016
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:56 PM on June 18, 2016
Look, I've learned my lesson about trying to outthink this show. GoT has all the subtlety of a brick hitting another brick while the word "brick" appears on screen. Arya killed the Waif. Why did the Waif hate Arya so much? Because it was more dramatic. Why didn't we see Arya kill the Waif? Because it was dark. Will any of the Braavos story ever matter again? Probably not. Does Arya at least have cool shape-changing powers now? Seems like a gimme, the one obvious thing you could reasonably salvage from this pointless detour, so: Probably not.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 1:57 AM on June 19, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 1:57 AM on June 19, 2016 [5 favorites]
OMG Brienne, stop mooning over Jaime. He fucks his sister and murders children.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:14 AM on June 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:14 AM on June 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
"stop mooning over Jaime. He fucks his sister and murders children."
Yeah, but, counterpoint: He's played by Nikolaj Coster-Waldau.
I rest my case.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:51 AM on June 19, 2016 [8 favorites]
Yeah, but, counterpoint: He's played by Nikolaj Coster-Waldau.
I rest my case.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:51 AM on June 19, 2016 [8 favorites]
Look, I've learned my lesson about trying to outthink this show.
Exactly. I spent a lot of time spinning theories about Arya and how things would go in 'No One.' Every last one was hilariously wrong , with each coming from a place of wish fufillment or massive overthinking about a screenshot from a preview, a frozen frame or a belief that the writers and showerunners don't make mistakes.
Only thing I'm sure of for tonight's episode is that there will be a big battle, it'll look good(probably), and Ned Stark won't be back from the dead.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:58 AM on June 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Exactly. I spent a lot of time spinning theories about Arya and how things would go in 'No One.' Every last one was hilariously wrong , with each coming from a place of wish fufillment or massive overthinking about a screenshot from a preview, a frozen frame or a belief that the writers and showerunners don't make mistakes.
Only thing I'm sure of for tonight's episode is that there will be a big battle, it'll look good(probably), and Ned Stark won't be back from the dead.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:58 AM on June 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, but, counterpoint: He's played by Nikolaj Coster-Waldau.
Counter-counterpoint: Brienne of Tarth is also Captain Phasma.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:50 PM on June 19, 2016
Counter-counterpoint: Brienne of Tarth is also Captain Phasma.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:50 PM on June 19, 2016
On rewatch: it bugged me that Tyrion's "a Lannister, a Tyrell and a Stark" joke is so obviously a lazily repurposed Englishman/Irishman/Scotsman joke. Dinklage even gives the Stark a cod Scottish accent in his telling.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 12:49 PM on June 20, 2016
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 12:49 PM on June 20, 2016
Wait, why is everyone so sure that Blackfish is dead?
I mean, he probably is, but he's a guy who's been MIA since the Red Wedding until he resurfaced by word of mouth an episode or two ago. Maybe the captain of the guard who was sworn to protect the lord realised that Edmure was a tool and spirited Blackfish away so he could go fight in the North.
Also! Is this the first time we heard Pod's last name (when Bronn grabbed him)? Because it's the same as Ilyn Payne. Is Payne one of those bastard's last names like Snow and Sand?
The Arya sitch...I feel like the only reason the actress was introduced was to briefly be a mother-substitute but part of that was an opium dream and then she was slain just like Catelyn.
Apparently this is the last we'll see of Jaqen so I want to link again to this brilliantearworm parody song on YouTube that someone else had linked to last? season.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 5:40 PM on October 12, 2018
I mean, he probably is, but he's a guy who's been MIA since the Red Wedding until he resurfaced by word of mouth an episode or two ago. Maybe the captain of the guard who was sworn to protect the lord realised that Edmure was a tool and spirited Blackfish away so he could go fight in the North.
Also! Is this the first time we heard Pod's last name (when Bronn grabbed him)? Because it's the same as Ilyn Payne. Is Payne one of those bastard's last names like Snow and Sand?
The Arya sitch...I feel like the only reason the actress was introduced was to briefly be a mother-substitute but part of that was an opium dream and then she was slain just like Catelyn.
Apparently this is the last we'll see of Jaqen so I want to link again to this brilliant
posted by TWinbrook8 at 5:40 PM on October 12, 2018
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posted by Justinian at 7:05 PM on June 12, 2016 [6 favorites]