Legion: Chapter 3
February 22, 2017 8:44 PM - Season 1, Episode 3 - Subscribe
A threat looms as David searches for answers.
It continues to be good! David appears to be absorbing people (at least, he absorbed Lenny), so I'm wondering if he absorbed the creature with the yellow eyes, or if that might be a fake-out, and it's a concealed part of him. The Angriest Boy in the World stuff is making me believe that he did something terrible as a child (the dream book indicates it's that he murdered his mom) and he can't come to terms with it, so it's been repressed in his psyche.
posted by codacorolla at 7:43 AM on February 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by codacorolla at 7:43 AM on February 23, 2017 [3 favorites]
I found it interesting that Syd could see things in David's dream world that Melanie and Ptonomy couldn't - considering that the main evidence in favor of Lenny being a real person was that Syd said "I think I killed your friend"? But now it seems as if Syd's being able to see Lenny doesn't have to mean that Lenny isn't some manifestation of David's powers/split personas.
posted by oh yeah! at 11:42 AM on February 23, 2017
posted by oh yeah! at 11:42 AM on February 23, 2017
"Heathcliff Marr" feels like an anagram, but I can't make anything better from it than ARCH FILM FATHER. (A reference to Stanley Tucci's character in Easy A?)
posted by Iridic at 1:37 PM on February 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Iridic at 1:37 PM on February 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
I'm guessing that Syd & David's bodyswap gives her a connection with David that lets her see the things that David sees but others don't
posted by kokaku at 2:04 PM on February 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by kokaku at 2:04 PM on February 23, 2017 [8 favorites]
But the interrogator seemed reliable when he said that a girl was dead. While he sometimes agreed with David about delusions, that didn't seem to be one of those times. I think it's possible he and Lenny became friends in an institution, since he'd been in and out of Clockworks all his life.
I have some thoughts about the yellow eyed guy, but I think we need a comics included option.
posted by politikitty at 5:12 PM on February 23, 2017
I have some thoughts about the yellow eyed guy, but I think we need a comics included option.
posted by politikitty at 5:12 PM on February 23, 2017
David is obviously an unreliable narrator, but some twist like "actually nobody ever existed except David!" seems very dissatisfying. I'd rather be getting a sort of straight story where Lenny and Syd actually exist as we understand them to exist.
posted by codacorolla at 6:25 PM on February 23, 2017
posted by codacorolla at 6:25 PM on February 23, 2017
I love the Lenny character - and feels like a nice ode to my-peak-comicbooks era (this has a big The Maxx feels for me).
posted by porpoise at 8:26 PM on February 23, 2017
posted by porpoise at 8:26 PM on February 23, 2017
I have some thoughts about the yellow eyed guy, but I think we need a comics included option.
I feel like since the season is only 8 episodes long, maybe a full-season thread would be best for the books-included option? But I haven't read any of the comics myself, so, I think someone more familiar with the material should make that call.
posted by oh yeah! at 9:33 PM on February 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
I feel like since the season is only 8 episodes long, maybe a full-season thread would be best for the books-included option? But I haven't read any of the comics myself, so, I think someone more familiar with the material should make that call.
posted by oh yeah! at 9:33 PM on February 23, 2017 [1 favorite]
As usual, I have so many questions after this episode.
What do you think we're supposed to make of the burning city at the end of the Angriest Boy book? If David had done something catastrophic, wouldn't his sister be less inclined to argue that he was just mentally ill instead of a dangerous weapon?
What is head-Lenny supposed to represent? She's being kind of a dick to David, which wasn't something we've seen her do when she was alive.
Surely I'm not the only one who shouts "Mr. Noodle!" every time Bill Irwin examines David, right?
I first heard of Bill Irvin when he was in a 1988 production of "Waiting for Godot" with Steve Martin, Robin Williams, and F. Murray Abraham. As a high-school drama geek, I wanted to see that show so badly.
posted by bibliowench at 12:24 PM on February 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
What do you think we're supposed to make of the burning city at the end of the Angriest Boy book? If David had done something catastrophic, wouldn't his sister be less inclined to argue that he was just mentally ill instead of a dangerous weapon?
What is head-Lenny supposed to represent? She's being kind of a dick to David, which wasn't something we've seen her do when she was alive.
Surely I'm not the only one who shouts "Mr. Noodle!" every time Bill Irwin examines David, right?
I first heard of Bill Irvin when he was in a 1988 production of "Waiting for Godot" with Steve Martin, Robin Williams, and F. Murray Abraham. As a high-school drama geek, I wanted to see that show so badly.
posted by bibliowench at 12:24 PM on February 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
What do you think we're supposed to make of the burning city at the end of the Angriest Boy book? If David had done something catastrophic, wouldn't his sister be less inclined to argue that he was just mentally ill instead of a dangerous weapon?
That's a good question. As shown in the interrogation scene, she doesn't seem to be entirely honest with herself. Her leaning towards classifying David as mentally ill could be a way to square the circle of her own rationality with having grown up in a "haunted house". Therefore, David could be responsible for some catastrophe that was an outburst of his psychic powers, but has been explained away in other ways. Potentially even as an act of intentional vandalism, which would explain his later institutionalization.
posted by codacorolla at 1:16 PM on February 24, 2017
That's a good question. As shown in the interrogation scene, she doesn't seem to be entirely honest with herself. Her leaning towards classifying David as mentally ill could be a way to square the circle of her own rationality with having grown up in a "haunted house". Therefore, David could be responsible for some catastrophe that was an outburst of his psychic powers, but has been explained away in other ways. Potentially even as an act of intentional vandalism, which would explain his later institutionalization.
posted by codacorolla at 1:16 PM on February 24, 2017
"What do you think we're supposed to make of the burning city at the end of the Angriest Boy book?"
Well, I wanted to know what was written on the leftside page -- there was quite a bit there, but even at 1080p on pause I couldn't really make anything out. But I think that it indicates that he did something quite bad. I mean, both parents are missing from he and his sister's lives now. But I'm also suspicious of both parents themselves.
Interrogator-guy's mention of a dead girl seems to me to be the strongest evidence that Lenny existed, but it's far from conclusive. And, BTW, that character and the actor's portrayal was so good, it's really a shame that they killed him in the first episode. Far more interesting to me than Mr. Permedhair Cloudieye.
The linked Vulture recap is critical of this episode in that it's more conventional than the first two episodes. I agree that this episode was more conventional, and I agree that the ways in which this show is outre for its genre is something I love about it. But, nevertheless, I think I enjoyed this episode more than I did the first two. The first episode was actually too impressive for me in that I absolutely couldn't restrain myself from rewinding and watching every scene or even small portions of scenes, which sort of ruined the continuity of the experience. But I couldn't help it, because there was so much going on and it was so interesting. I watched it a second time straight-through, hoping that I would get the full effect, but I mostly didn't. And the second episode seemed like kind of a bridging episode.
This one, though, was deeply scary. I found most of the scary stuff from the first two episodes to be more disorienting than frightening, while I found much of this episode to be even more filled with tension and then genuinely frightening. I mean, the yellow-eyed man coming out from behind the door to the kitchen will haunt me.
I really like the whole idea of Syd and David's romance being non-physical. I just wish that they had both written the character and cast an actor that seemed like an actual adult woman and not so ... well, that would require an essay. Their bodyswapping conversaion on the dock was a very good scene, though.
The Fargo threads got a lot of activity and I'm a little befuddled that people don't seem to know that this show is Noah Hawley, too. It's recognizably him. (I read Hawley's most recent novel, Before the Fall, which is pretty interesting in that the novel's Roger Ailes counterpart isn't much like Ailes at all, but wow does he nail Bill O'Reilly. I enjoyed the book.)
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 4:19 PM on February 24, 2017
Well, I wanted to know what was written on the leftside page -- there was quite a bit there, but even at 1080p on pause I couldn't really make anything out. But I think that it indicates that he did something quite bad. I mean, both parents are missing from he and his sister's lives now. But I'm also suspicious of both parents themselves.
Interrogator-guy's mention of a dead girl seems to me to be the strongest evidence that Lenny existed, but it's far from conclusive. And, BTW, that character and the actor's portrayal was so good, it's really a shame that they killed him in the first episode. Far more interesting to me than Mr. Permedhair Cloudieye.
The linked Vulture recap is critical of this episode in that it's more conventional than the first two episodes. I agree that this episode was more conventional, and I agree that the ways in which this show is outre for its genre is something I love about it. But, nevertheless, I think I enjoyed this episode more than I did the first two. The first episode was actually too impressive for me in that I absolutely couldn't restrain myself from rewinding and watching every scene or even small portions of scenes, which sort of ruined the continuity of the experience. But I couldn't help it, because there was so much going on and it was so interesting. I watched it a second time straight-through, hoping that I would get the full effect, but I mostly didn't. And the second episode seemed like kind of a bridging episode.
This one, though, was deeply scary. I found most of the scary stuff from the first two episodes to be more disorienting than frightening, while I found much of this episode to be even more filled with tension and then genuinely frightening. I mean, the yellow-eyed man coming out from behind the door to the kitchen will haunt me.
I really like the whole idea of Syd and David's romance being non-physical. I just wish that they had both written the character and cast an actor that seemed like an actual adult woman and not so ... well, that would require an essay. Their bodyswapping conversaion on the dock was a very good scene, though.
The Fargo threads got a lot of activity and I'm a little befuddled that people don't seem to know that this show is Noah Hawley, too. It's recognizably him. (I read Hawley's most recent novel, Before the Fall, which is pretty interesting in that the novel's Roger Ailes counterpart isn't much like Ailes at all, but wow does he nail Bill O'Reilly. I enjoyed the book.)
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 4:19 PM on February 24, 2017
This show is rapidly joining Hannibal in the "this show is way fucking better than I ever expected from the source material" Hall of Fame. It's certainly better in a very different way than I expect from a Marvel property. Are any other Marvel shows or films done in anything but the standard Hollywood Action mode?
posted by Justinian at 2:24 AM on February 25, 2017
posted by Justinian at 2:24 AM on February 25, 2017
Justinian, apologies if you already watched Agent Carter and did not enjoy it, but it's the closest thing to a graphic novel/period setting crossover I've seen that isn't stereotypically "Hollywood action" though I'd argue it's shot much in the same vein as Agents of SHIELD.
My own love of Peg and the gang punching patriarchy in the post-WWII face might be clouding my judgment on this, but her wardrobe choices are arguably as eye-catching as Legion's, and the women characters are very well-written and multidimensional.
I mean... here's two of the villainesses on the show trading barbs, and frankly, it's pretty great.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 7:14 PM on February 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
My own love of Peg and the gang punching patriarchy in the post-WWII face might be clouding my judgment on this, but her wardrobe choices are arguably as eye-catching as Legion's, and the women characters are very well-written and multidimensional.
I mean... here's two of the villainesses on the show trading barbs, and frankly, it's pretty great.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 7:14 PM on February 25, 2017 [2 favorites]
Ah, yes, I watched Agent Carter. Certainly the look of that show was not the standard fare but it didn't really take a lot of chances with the cinematography or structure in the way Legion does. That's not a criticism. Bit I was more talking about the look and feel and structure of the show.
posted by Justinian at 9:44 PM on February 25, 2017
posted by Justinian at 9:44 PM on February 25, 2017
This show is rapidly joining Hannibal in the "this show is way fucking better than I ever expected from the source material" Hall of Fame.
So the Chris Claremont/Bill Sienkiewicz issues of The New Mutants are some of my favorites of all time. What is it about them that you find so bad?
posted by Quonab at 12:06 AM on February 26, 2017
So the Chris Claremont/Bill Sienkiewicz issues of The New Mutants are some of my favorites of all time. What is it about them that you find so bad?
posted by Quonab at 12:06 AM on February 26, 2017
So, I have the same thought, despite loving the Claremont/Sienkiewicz run.
Claremont's characters are always very well meaning attempts at true diversity, with all the problematic qualities typical when orchestrated by a person with all the privilege.
Legion is the epitome of that: one of his split personalities is a muslim terrorist. His mental health is treated with no real understanding beyond crazies be crazy, conflating Disassociative Identity Disorder, PTSD and schizophrenia. It's taken as given that he can never have a normal or decent life with treatment.
When I saw that Hawley was attached, I had high hopes that he would manage to encapsulate the best of the pair. But it focuses on a lot of things the Marvel Cinematic Universe does poorly. (The Demon Bear saga has even more, so fingers crossed that doesn't become another whitewashed CW style teen action blockbuster)
posted by politikitty at 1:22 PM on February 27, 2017
Claremont's characters are always very well meaning attempts at true diversity, with all the problematic qualities typical when orchestrated by a person with all the privilege.
Legion is the epitome of that: one of his split personalities is a muslim terrorist. His mental health is treated with no real understanding beyond crazies be crazy, conflating Disassociative Identity Disorder, PTSD and schizophrenia. It's taken as given that he can never have a normal or decent life with treatment.
When I saw that Hawley was attached, I had high hopes that he would manage to encapsulate the best of the pair. But it focuses on a lot of things the Marvel Cinematic Universe does poorly. (The Demon Bear saga has even more, so fingers crossed that doesn't become another whitewashed CW style teen action blockbuster)
posted by politikitty at 1:22 PM on February 27, 2017
What do you think we're supposed to make of the burning city at the end of the Angriest Boy book?
Well, there was that reference to "the incident in (random new york city on the tip of my tongue)".
posted by ArgentCorvid at 7:19 AM on February 28, 2017
Well, there was that reference to "the incident in (random new york city on the tip of my tongue)".
posted by ArgentCorvid at 7:19 AM on February 28, 2017
"the incident in Red Hook"
Brooklyn neighborhood or town upstate near Bard College
posted by kokaku at 7:28 AM on February 28, 2017
Brooklyn neighborhood or town upstate near Bard College
posted by kokaku at 7:28 AM on February 28, 2017
yes. that one.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 12:58 PM on February 28, 2017
posted by ArgentCorvid at 12:58 PM on February 28, 2017
Friendly reminder that these threads are show only! Please stop including things from outside sources.
posted by FirstMateKate at 12:30 PM on March 14, 2017
posted by FirstMateKate at 12:30 PM on March 14, 2017
The books included thread is open for the whole series, so all Marvel references should happen in there going forward.
But I was careful to avoid speculation or character details that are plot sensitive. (I apologize if mentioning his multiple personalities feels too far. But it's similar to daredevil being blind or wolverine having claws.) I was giving generalities about why you can be a fan of Chris Claremont/Marvel and still concerned about his work being rebooted in the current political climate.
posted by politikitty at 1:53 PM on March 14, 2017
But I was careful to avoid speculation or character details that are plot sensitive. (I apologize if mentioning his multiple personalities feels too far. But it's similar to daredevil being blind or wolverine having claws.) I was giving generalities about why you can be a fan of Chris Claremont/Marvel and still concerned about his work being rebooted in the current political climate.
posted by politikitty at 1:53 PM on March 14, 2017
I don't understand why David and Syd don't just...
I figure it's because the last time they swapped, she couldn't last two minutes in his skull before she scrambled local reality like an egg.
posted by Iridic at 12:21 PM on March 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
I figure it's because the last time they swapped, she couldn't last two minutes in his skull before she scrambled local reality like an egg.
posted by Iridic at 12:21 PM on March 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
>What do you think we're supposed to make of the burning city at the end of the Angriest Boy book?
>>...Therefore, David could be responsible for some catastrophe that was an outburst of his psychic powers, but has been explained away in other ways.
He said his dad died last year, but we don't know much of anything about his mom, do we? Except for those recurring scenes of him as a little kid, with her calling his voice. I bet that when he was a kid, he was angry about something and set his whole house on fire and killed her, and has totally repressed it. (Since he seems to have every power in the book, firestarting could certainly be one of them!)
I didn't really get the whole 'repressed memories' thing - just couldn't see how it was possible - until I realized that I had one of my own! In 5th grade I accidentally hurt my teacher in a pretty serious way by knocking her over, exacerbating a condition that she'd already gotten from another student knocking her over a few months before. She had to stop teaching 5th grade because of it. And then I just... forgot I'd done it. 100% forgot, until three years later when I mentioned how she'd had to quit after that other girl knocked her over, and several people who'd been there were like "What? No, that was you." I still can't actually remember it, but I've confirmed it with dozens of people, so I know it's true.
(Also Syd and David are totally going to have freaky mind-sex at some point for sure.)
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:02 AM on March 27, 2017
>>...Therefore, David could be responsible for some catastrophe that was an outburst of his psychic powers, but has been explained away in other ways.
He said his dad died last year, but we don't know much of anything about his mom, do we? Except for those recurring scenes of him as a little kid, with her calling his voice. I bet that when he was a kid, he was angry about something and set his whole house on fire and killed her, and has totally repressed it. (Since he seems to have every power in the book, firestarting could certainly be one of them!)
I didn't really get the whole 'repressed memories' thing - just couldn't see how it was possible - until I realized that I had one of my own! In 5th grade I accidentally hurt my teacher in a pretty serious way by knocking her over, exacerbating a condition that she'd already gotten from another student knocking her over a few months before. She had to stop teaching 5th grade because of it. And then I just... forgot I'd done it. 100% forgot, until three years later when I mentioned how she'd had to quit after that other girl knocked her over, and several people who'd been there were like "What? No, that was you." I still can't actually remember it, but I've confirmed it with dozens of people, so I know it's true.
(Also Syd and David are totally going to have freaky mind-sex at some point for sure.)
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:02 AM on March 27, 2017
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posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:11 PM on February 22, 2017 [5 favorites]