Twin Peaks: The Return, Part 15 First Watch

August 20, 2017 6:07 PM - Season 3, Episode 15

There's some fear in letting go. (description from Showtime)
posted by infinitewindow (74 comments total)

jeez some people really don't like those roadhouse musical endings, do they.
not sure there's really a need to fall down on the floor and scream about it but hey

steven and st. alia of the knife huddled together in the hollow of the giant tree in the bosom of the giant forest waiting for their doom to come and claim them would have been the most beautiful and terrifying thing in the world except for steven being there. he does not deserve to have shot his own head off, he deserves to be a special anniversary present for jennifer jason leigh.

that Roadhouse ending also underlined the very pressing need for a spinoff series where Sarah Palmer roams from town to town, going from bar to bar educating men about the need to respect other people's personal space
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:12 PM on August 20, 2017 [14 favorites]

- more importantly, every moment Ed feels hope or pleasure or joy or self-satisfaction or like any decision he ever made in his life has brought him any sort of reward is like the bitterest gall dripping from the mouth of the serpent bound above where I lie in chains, punished for a crime I forgot many centuries ago. I hate Ed so much he makes me like James a little bit in comparison. I didn't always hate Ed! but the only correct fulfillment for a sad man-shape such as Ed is agony, not happiness. never happiness! david lynch, this is not why I love you, please stop it immediately

p.s. I am not a black lodge spirit, it is not everyone's suffering I feast on, only Ed's

- ALTHOUGH I do not believe that sweet dumb Cooper really just died for good by sticking a fork in a light socket and that the other one, who "really is Cooper" in the opinion of David Bowie, who knows everything, is all that's left, NEVERTHELESS if that is actually what just happened, never mind my Ed complaints. this makes up for it and then some.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:20 PM on August 20, 2017

Nah, Coop brought himself back by zapping himself, the same way you used to be able to both cause and reverse amnesia by dropping a cocoanut on someone's head on Gilligan's Island.

KID-S?
posted by maxsparber at 6:24 PM on August 20, 2017 [10 favorites]

well I know that's what we're supposed to think, but we were also supposed to think Richard was Audrey's kid and that Ed and Donna would pine for each other until the end of time and never move on and

WELL ANYWAY I believe in surprises even when all hope is lost is what I'm saying

not that I don't love Dale very much and want him to live and have lines, I just love surprises more
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:27 PM on August 20, 2017

I was prepared to not like the Ed/Norma fanservice, but then Otis Redding.

This episode was dizzying! So much happened! I need to watch it again immediately.
posted by speicus at 6:28 PM on August 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

I thought that the Roadhouse ending was in contrast to power fantasies like Sarah Palmer, Booper, the assassins, etc.. Banal cruelty can target you against which you are helpless. It was a relatively insignificant moment -- almost comic -- that then became a shot of human discomfort which grew until the woman broke out into an enraged and horrified scream.

It seemed like something out of the first season.
posted by postcommunism at 6:39 PM on August 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

Jesus the fucking ask of having Catherine Coulson do those lines.
posted by Ferreous at 7:02 PM on August 20, 2017 [23 favorites]

Log Lady.💔

On the other hand I still love Hutch and Chantal.
posted by Brittanie at 7:42 PM on August 20, 2017

I'm still watching but holy crap we are actually talking about Judy.
posted by elsietheeel at 7:52 PM on August 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

The credits ended with "In memory of Margaret Lanterman." Holy fuck, Catherine Coulson. I don't know how she found the courage to do that scene.

I understand why they started with the joyful Big Ed and Norma reunion because things got dark fast after that.

I hate that Richard really is Audrey's son, but I still maintain that Audrey is in a coma. Threshold. She needs to put her damn coat on to wake up. But if that's not the case, I guess I'd end up like that if Richard were my son.

Charlyne Yi freaked me out even before she started crawling and screaming. Like, I honestly was waiting for her to take her face off.
posted by Ruki at 7:59 PM on August 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

I really expected the two burly guys at the end to be one of many instances of sexual violence in twin peaks. I wouldn't say it was a relief but tension was released when they just moved her out of the both
posted by Ferreous at 8:06 PM on August 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

Nah, Coop brought himself back by zapping himself, the same way you used to be able to both cause and reverse amnesia by dropping a cocoanut on someone's head on Gilligan's Island.

It's weird to think about in the context of something like Part 8, but evil twins and amnesia are pretty much Daytime TV 101. Twin Peaks seems far removed from its original meta soap opera roots, but it kinda isn't really.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:11 PM on August 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

Banal cruelty can target you against which you are helpless

I go back and forth all the time over whether David Lynch really knows what he's doing with the violence-against-women repetition compulsion thing in his work, but times like this I think he does know. just casually dropping in the raw thing without any symbolism or blood and death or sexual content to inflate it or gentle it. those guys wanted something and there was an object in the way, so they moved it.

it was like, as a viewer it was a relief that the thing they wanted was to take her table rather than to sexually assault her, but then again not so much relief. they took away what they wanted and didn't do anything more to her, but only because they didn't want anything more.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:11 PM on August 20, 2017 [8 favorites]

So I enjoyed that since Bowie was unfortunately unavailable for his scene, having traveled back to his home planet and all, that Lynch was like 'well, he's a spectral tea pot now.'

Of course he is.
posted by Windigo at 8:16 PM on August 20, 2017 [29 favorites]

And I have to go back and watch the Jumping Man scene again, because apparently I missed something big there.
posted by Ruki at 8:18 PM on August 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

they took away what they wanted and didn't do anything more to her, but only because they didn't want anything more.

I read that and instantly thought of Mr. C's "I don't want to be your boss" to the arm wrestling thugs. In a way, it's kind of worse to be that far below someone's notice. No one even laughed when those guys picked her up and moved her on to the floor. That would have been awful, but at least it would have acknowledged she had dignity to lose. Just no one really cared. And of course it lines up with Sarah, too. (Even though Hawk cares about Sarah, and I'm sure he would have had some harsh words for the Roadhouse gentlemen had he been there.)
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:22 PM on August 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

I loved the scene with Cooper this week. When he gets that "domestic bliss" speech, right after sitting down, he moves the two identical salt and pepper shakers apart, putting one over by the remote, (I've got to get out of here and go somewhere) then pauses and presses a button on the remote (and do something there), then keeps leaning back down to press buttons again. (Do something there! Do something there!)

I don't think he died when he stuck the fork in the outlet. Twin Peaks is an edgy show, but not edgy enough to blow all the narrative potential that character has on that sharp a turn.
posted by Rinku at 8:25 PM on August 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

I don't think it's so much Coop zapping himself out of amnesia as it is Coop's consciousness finally getting put back in the DougieCoop body. I noticed a couple weeks ago that DougieCoop has been conspicuously removed from electrical stuff - Sonny Jim's clapper light, other people touching the elevator buttons and opening car doors (power locks and windows) for him, the sealed off outlet behind him in the police station. And in the police station and I think a couple other times, DougieCoop's been fixated briefly on a crackling outlet but never approached it. I think he got separated from his consciousness the first time he approached the big outlet in the purple room and it zapped him, before he leaned in and got sucked bodily in. His face goes vacant for a second after he gets zapped there. So I think his consciousness has been zipping around in the electricity trying to get out while his body, with his brain and the physical contents of his memories without the animating consciousness, has been wandering out in the world but going nowhere near an active circuit that could reunite the body and mind.

Also, I think the first scene of the season of Cooper talking to the Fireman might have been his disembodied consciousness at some point between the purple room and now.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:28 PM on August 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

Anyone know what movie he flipped to on TCM that triggered his socket epiphany?

Also, the spirits travel through electricity, so I'm wondering if Coop might be headed back for the lodge, or maybe somewhere parts unknown?
posted by codacorolla at 8:28 PM on August 20, 2017

Man don't let anyone tell you acting is easy work. Catherine Coulson and those heartbreaking lines... And later when Audrey jumped on Charlie and started to choke him my immediate response was Ack! Clark Middleton has JRA, don't do that!
posted by elsietheeel at 8:30 PM on August 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

It was Sunset Boulevard.
posted by elsietheeel at 8:30 PM on August 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

(Bert Moorhouse plays a character named Gordon Cole.)
posted by elsietheeel at 8:32 PM on August 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

This episode also made Philip Jeffries's position within the black lodge hierarchy very unclear. It seemed like the woodsmen were almost in his service in some way. They did what bad Cooper told them to, but bad Coop definitely seemed like a guest. I had thought since Jeffries was trying to kill bad Cooper he might be on the "semi-reformed demon" side of the equation, the MIKE side, but nuclear-blast-demon headcrushers as footmen certainly muddies that some.

I thought the lady who spoke backwards and unlocked Jeffries might be Judy, but I didn't see "Judy" in the credits. Who was that actor and what is she credited as?
posted by Rinku at 8:33 PM on August 20, 2017

Also holy crap Charlyne Yi. I've never been a fan but those were almost Sheryl worthy. Not quite the lung capacity tho.
posted by elsietheeel at 8:38 PM on August 20, 2017

I don't expect it to pan out but I kind of love the Judy Garland Briggs theory floating around.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:59 PM on August 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

And in the police station and I think a couple other times, DougieCoop's been fixated briefly on a crackling outlet but never approached it.

When the woman in red shoes walks by, right after the stirring scene with the flag, right?

When he started crawling toward the outlet, fork in hand, I said aloud (and I was watching alone, FTR), "Don't fuck this up, Janey!" I was so certain that she was going to walk in before he got there.
posted by kenko at 9:27 PM on August 20, 2017

the other one, who "really is Cooper" in the opinion of David Bowie

Wait, isn't this the exact opposite of what Jeffries was getting at? He points at Cooper and asks "who do you think that really is, there?", of people who think that it's normal Coop, implying that in his opinion it's not normal Coop. (And the Coop to whom he's referring is Our Boop, since Boop remembers his speech, is how I figure it.)

ETA No wait all the above is wrong and dumb, sorry!
posted by kenko at 9:37 PM on August 20, 2017

When the woman in red shoes walks by, right after the stirring scene with the flag, right?

Yep! That's the one.

This episode was every bit as good as the last one for me, that Mr. C sequence starting with the convenience store was the payoff to SO MUCH STUFF that I've been waiting for since FWWM. The room above the convenience store was the same room in the painting that Mrs. Tremond gave Laura! The slightly cleaner woodsman Jurgen Prochnow played before was there! Woodsmen messing with the radio equipment, and the Jumping Man (check out the screenshot floating around of Sarah Palmer's face superimposed on his for a few frames)! Jeffries and Judy! The motel from FWWM as a terrifying place of evil spirits (oh my god that post-credits shot of that woman)! This episode is just an embarrassment of riches, and I think the next will be too to fill in more blanks before the two part finale. God, I can't believe it's almost over.

The convenience store is totally the Dutchman place Ray talked about, right? A ghostly convenience store that appears in different locations.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:43 PM on August 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

Also was anybody else expecting Nadine to walk right up to Ed and Norma after he proposed, totally not remembering the conversation she just had with Ed, and Ed sad-sacking right back out of the diner again with Nadine?
posted by jason_steakums at 9:55 PM on August 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

Random thoughts:

Cooper crawled on his hands and knees to the outlet and electrocuted himself as... salvation? Or escape? Or to return to himself? The girl in the bar crawled on her hands and knees and screamed in acknowledgment of her own humanity and experience. Same?

I can't believe Big Ed didn't divorce Nadine earlier. It doesn't seem like they were living together? If I were Norma, I'd be over it.

Good grief, I hope Margaret Coulson knew what she was signing up for. Heart wrenching.

What is even happening with Gersten?

confirmed that Diane and Bad Cooper are texting.

So many storylines running in parallel but shown to us slightly out of order... in disoriented.

I continue to be fascinated by the grainy artifacts that sometimes appear on certain frames.

Is Billy somehow Big Ed's brother?

Did "oy!"/glovehands kill those men?
posted by samthemander at 10:48 PM on August 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

Only a few more episodes left for one of the new characters to turn out to be Piper Laurie in disguise.
posted by doctornecessiter at 4:38 AM on August 21, 2017 [19 favorites]

Also holy crap Charlyne Yi. I've never been a fan but those were almost Sheryl worthy. Not quite the lung capacity tho.

Also if you check the credits, she is listed as playing "Ruby." By coincidence, she also voices all of the Rubies on Steven Universe. I wonder if Lynch or Frost or Johanna Ray are SU fans.
posted by Strange Interlude at 5:38 AM on August 21, 2017 [8 favorites]

So, is ZZ Top the only act that the Roadhouse can't book?
posted by crLLC at 6:43 AM on August 21, 2017

So, is ZZ Top the only act that the Roadhouse can't book?

NO HAY BANDA. THERE IS NO BAND.
posted by Strange Interlude at 7:04 AM on August 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

Who was that actor and what is she credited as?

The actor is Malachy Sreehan and the character was listed as "Bosomy Woman" in the credits.
posted by tomorrowromance at 7:39 AM on August 21, 2017

Man, I appreciated that David Lynch just wanted to listen to Green Onions, but the ZZ Top thing was a joke right?
posted by elsietheeel at 7:40 AM on August 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

ZZ Top are awesome.
posted by maxsparber at 7:58 AM on August 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

Agree to disagree!
posted by elsietheeel at 8:17 AM on August 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Nobody disagrees about this.

Everybody's crazy about a "Sharp Dressed Man."
posted by maxsparber at 8:19 AM on August 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

I was so ready for there to be another mid-show musical guest and for it to be ZZ Top. How awesome would that have been? Not the Roadhouse's usual style, admittedly, but neither is just playing it over the PA.
posted by kenko at 8:23 AM on August 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Is it possible that ZZ Top is trapped in the Lodge but that its doppelganger was able to escape in the form of a piece of posterboard with a volume meter on it? The Jeffries teapot seems to support this theory.
posted by crLLC at 8:56 AM on August 21, 2017 [14 favorites]

It's interesting to watch things wind up. Margaret is dead. Big Ed, who was absent for most of the series, shows up just long enough for Lynch and Frost to be really kind to him and Norma. Steven Burnett has presumably committed suicide, which wasn't the narrative I was expecting from him, but, then, I also wasn't really expecting Bowie to show up as a coffee pot. I think Big Ed's story was also the end of the Nadine and Jacoby story, so it's fun to see how a series of seemingly unrelated stories might just gel into a single conclusions.

I do suspect the show will end with Jerry Horne stumbling out of the woods, saying "Did I miss anything?"
posted by maxsparber at 9:15 AM on August 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

If ZZ Top played, they would have to have been covered head to toe in black soot.
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 10:36 AM on August 21, 2017 [18 favorites]

At this point, I'd be interested in the continuation of two stories: the adventures of Las Vegas FBI and David Lynch's One Punch Man.

Inter dimensional Tea Pot Jefferies is the weirdest character Lynch thought up since the Guild Navigator.
posted by lmfsilva at 11:52 AM on August 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

My heart dog, who died last year, was a Boston terrier, and during that scene in the woods I was sooooo worried fuckin' Steven would shoot that adorable little Boston. That didn't happen, but anyway, the guy walking the dog, credited as Cyril Pons, was played by Mark Frost.
posted by Brittanie at 2:58 PM on August 21, 2017

Really intrigued by Jeffries saying, "So you ARE Cooper." I've had this fishy theory percolating that Mr. C's real objective is to trap or destroy Bob, which is why he says "you're still with me -- good," and why he's so dour and controlled in contrast to the hysterically laughing doppelganger we meet at the end of S2. Maybe Mr. C really is Cooper, trying every second to retain some semblance of control over himself.
posted by speicus at 3:46 PM on August 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

Was super-amazed that ZZTop were featured as they were basically my fave band for a few years back in the day. Like just before the orig TP was on... slightly saddened they weren't live but the record scratch joke was epic.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 4:59 PM on August 21, 2017

was anybody else expecting Nadine to walk right up to Ed and Norma after he proposed, totally not remembering the conversation she just had with Ed, and Ed sad-sacking right back out of the diner again with Nadine?

Still expecting that. Ed's misery has not been adequately fuelled by false hope since Adult Nadine woke up again; he's been giving every indication of remaining able to live with it.
posted by flabdablet at 11:41 PM on August 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Also now waiting for the nasty little franchise guy to have the RR sued, and when that doesn't work, burned down. It's important for Norma's hopes and dreams to be properly dealt with as well.

The twenty-first century is no place for real cherry pie.
posted by flabdablet at 11:45 PM on August 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Nadine seems so happy with her shovel, but yeah, I was expecting her to march into the diner with it and start swinging.
posted by tomboko at 3:35 AM on August 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

I saw Nadine walking with the shovel and realized someone has to be killed and buried with it sooner or later (not that Nadine has to be the killer/interrer). It's totally Chekhov's shovel.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:49 AM on August 22, 2017 [6 favorites]

I was worried about the shovel, but I think it has been replaced with Chekhov's blue rubber hulk glove.
posted by maxsparber at 10:00 AM on August 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

"David Lynch's One Punch Man" from lmfsilva is genius.
posted by kenko at 12:43 PM on August 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

I'm pretty sure Nadine's gonna be super strength buddies with Oy Hulk Hand and smash the Evil Woodsmen descending upon Twin Peaks in the big action-packed finale with her magic shovel while he arm wrestles Bad Coop (and loses(!) so that Andy/the blinded lady/Diane/woke Dougie will actually save the day).
posted by straight at 12:57 AM on August 23, 2017

Wow I really hate the idea of Norma sitting around pining for Ed for 30 years while Ed is supposedly some kind of saint for moping around all that time in his loveless marriage that he's completely emotionally checked out of (if not actively cheating with Norma) and this is all somehow Nadine's fault, and she just conveniently takes responsibility for all that.

It's a little better if I interpret Nadine's speech to Ed as really meaning, "I've finally gotten to an emotionally healthy place and can see our marriage is a sham so why don't you grow a pair and get out I'm better off without you."
posted by straight at 1:07 AM on August 23, 2017 [12 favorites]

I know they couldn't actually film it this way because of Catherine Coulson's situation, but I wish Hawk at least had a line to confirm my head canon that he drove off to sit by her deathbed that night (and then came back to inform the rest of the sheriff's office) instead of just hanging up on her.
posted by straight at 1:12 AM on August 23, 2017 [10 favorites]

It's a little better if I interpret Nadine's speech to Ed as really meaning, "I've finally gotten to an emotionally healthy place and can see our marriage is a sham so why don't you grow a pair and get out I'm better off without you."

The thing about subtlety and ambiguity is that you can interpret it both ways or a third way
posted by crossoverman at 3:48 AM on August 23, 2017

Well Nadine is nothing if not subtle.
posted by straight at 6:53 AM on August 23, 2017 [1 favorite]

"moping around in a [situation] you're completely emotionally checkout out of" is a way of spelling "pining", but it's interesting who gets the more romantic verb here.
posted by kenko at 7:52 AM on August 23, 2017

Norma ditched Hank (who died in jail according to The Secret History of Twin Peaks) and doesn't seem to have anything but a business relationship with that other guy, so I'm assuming Hank is the only one emotionally checked out of his marriage. Pining for someone is a very different activity if you're married to someone else.
posted by straight at 8:54 AM on August 23, 2017 [1 favorite]

(I meant "...I'm assuming Ed is the only one...")
posted by straight at 10:04 AM on August 23, 2017

MOAR ZZ TOP PUNS PLS
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:57 PM on August 23, 2017

> Ack! Clark Middleton has JRA, don't do that!

(many forms of) Juvenile Rheumatic Arthritis are now completely treatable, almost cureable, with biologics. When CM was a child, the only therapy (not cure) was corticosteroids like prednisone. A buddy of mine's kid had JRA - and it's completely under control with biologics (recombinant IL-1 receptor antagonist). His first shot, it was night and day in under an hour. For a few months it was weekly injections, then monthly, and now I think it's a prophylactic shot once every 6 months or so. However, even in Canada, the list price per shot is something like $8000.

I know that James Hurley was always kind of dumb, but is he being portrayed now as (borderline?) de facto developmentally disabled? His behaviour here is something consistent with unambiguous IQ* <7>
Oh, right, there was a motorcycle accident but...?

In HS, there were a couple of boys kind of like him - one was sweet and gentle and wanted to be a good guy (but also turned out non-heterosexual), the other was a raging bully and continued to be an asshole. They both came from wealthy families so they're both doing (more than) ok now, speeding into 40.

*IQ tests are bullshit, but sometimes useful as one part of a diagnostic panel especially when the results are at extremes/several standard deviations from the mean
posted by porpoise at 7:10 PM on August 23, 2017

The convo at the bar in one of the first two episodes indicates that James' mind has been messed up by the accident, so, yeah, I think his inability to read the social cues of the incident that lead to the fight is a reference to that.
posted by codacorolla at 7:38 PM on August 23, 2017

Oh wow, I wonder if the reception of James's performance at the Road House and Shelly's "James has always been cool" pronouncement are all small-town condescending kindness to the poor guy everyone knows had a brain-damaging accident when he was a kid.
posted by straight at 7:58 PM on August 23, 2017 [3 favorites]

I'm going to speculate that the actor who plays James is...not that great an actor, and leave it at that.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:28 PM on August 23, 2017 [4 favorites]

as you approach the whirlpool that will drown you suck you up into the sky and show you things that cannot then be unseen

Lynched that for you.
posted by flabdablet at 10:43 PM on August 23, 2017 [3 favorites]

From the Online Etymology Dictionary:

convenience (n.)
late 14c., "agreement, conformity," from Latin convenientia "meeting together, agreement, harmony," from conveniens, present participle of convenire (see convene). Meaning "suitable, adapted to existing conditions" is from c. 1600; that of "personally not difficult" is from 1703.

store (n.)
c. 1300, "supplies or provisions for a household, camp, etc.," from store (v.) or else from Old French estore "provisions; a fleet, navy, army," from estorer or from Medieval Latin staurum, instaurum "store." General sense of "sufficient supply" is attested from late 15c. The meaning "place where goods are kept for sale" is first recorded 1721 in American English (British English prefers shop (n.)), from the sense "place where supplies and provisions are kept" (1660s).

The word store is of larger signification than the word shop. It not only comprehends all that is embraced in the word shop, when that word is used to designate a place in which goods or merchandise are sold, but more, a place of deposit, a store house. In common parlance the two words have a distinct meaning. We speak of shops as places in which mechanics pursue their trades, as a carpenter's shop a blacksmith's shop a shoemaker's shop. While, if we refer to a place where goods and merchandise are bought and sold, whether by wholesale or retail, we speak of it as a store. [C.J. Brickell, opinion in Sparrenberger v. The State of Alabama, December term, 1875]

Stores "articles and equipment for an army" is from 1630s. In store "laid up for future use" (also of events, etc.) is recorded from late 14c. Store-bought is attested from 1912, American English; earlier store-boughten (1872).

Struck by the senses of "meeting together" and "laid up for future use".
posted by Grangousier at 4:00 AM on August 24, 2017

[Jeffries] points at Cooper and asks "who do you think that really is, there?", of people who think that it's normal Coop, implying that in his opinion it's not normal Coop. (And the Coop to whom he's referring is Our Boop, since Boop remembers his speech, is how I figure it.

I know you said you were all wrong, but I'm now not so sure. Remember that when Cooper stands in the hallway looking at the monitor when Jeffries exits the elevator and then goes back in to look at the footage, the footage shows Cooper still standing in the hallway after Jeffries passes. So maybe the two Coopers got swapped at that moment? And then were swapped back? I'd have to re-watch FWWM to confirm.
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:37 AM on August 24, 2017

Or that is Doop staring back from the monitor!
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:39 AM on August 24, 2017

I can accept that somehow Mr. C was killed for real back in Part 8, and he's been the real Coop ever since then. I do not believe Coop is in deep enough cover that he killed Darya and that other woman in cold blood.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:24 PM on August 24, 2017

(The way I read that scene -- and it may have been a simplistic misread -- was that Teapot Bowie did not at first believe that Mr. C was Cooper, because the two are so dissimilar, but then did believe it, because of an underlying similarity. I didn't think he meant Mr. C is actually Agent Cooper. That seems a little Steven Moffat.)
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:13 PM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Yeah I don't think it's implying that Cooplicate is the real deal either. Yes, Cooplicate remembers Jeffries appearing in the Philly office, but it tracks just fine that he'd have Coop's memories up until the point that they split, they're the same person until that point.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:14 PM on August 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Further to straight's comment relating to part 16, pondering the possible relationship between episode numbers and on-screen numerals, it could perhaps likewise be significant that Jeffries' motel room was #8, all the more so given the monochrome visuals and the partial reprise of Penderecki's Threnody in the soundtrack.
posted by misteraitch at 4:04 AM on November 18, 2019