Altered Carbon is a mess
February 7, 2018 10:44 AM - Subscribe
The discussion about Altered Carbon is a mess. I don't like the show enough to fix it, but I do like Fanfare enough to bring it up.
It's a Netflix show, so 10 episodes all dropped at once. Only 1 episode was posted. In good faith, but now folks are confused about whether to talk about multiple episodes there. Also confused about show-only vs books-included.
I don't like the show enough to fix the discussion myself. Not sure what needs doing, either. Personally I think a single whole-season post would be sufficient, but I don't want to ruin a more detailed discussion for folks are really into the show.
Do we have best practices for these Netflix dumps?
It's a Netflix show, so 10 episodes all dropped at once. Only 1 episode was posted. In good faith, but now folks are confused about whether to talk about multiple episodes there. Also confused about show-only vs books-included.
I don't like the show enough to fix the discussion myself. Not sure what needs doing, either. Personally I think a single whole-season post would be sufficient, but I don't want to ruin a more detailed discussion for folks are really into the show.
Do we have best practices for these Netflix dumps?
As the person who scrambled to post that, I do think we have some stuff to hash out about what to do in situations like these in the long term.
My opinion is that episode-by-episode posts for shows that drop all at once has gone poorly - there's less interest in the non-finale posts because a lot of us can't keep each individual episode straight without a synopsis. We do have the option to do both things simultaneously though: books included and show-only can run concurrently, and I think we should start doing that in these situations, facilitated by whomever is interested enough to post.
(I guess if we're interested enough to spoil, we're interested enough to create a thread.)
How does everybody else feel about that?
I also wonder.. should we be having this out in Fanfare Talk, or maybe take it to MetaTalk for wider participation? (I have some other etiquette questions that I've been mulling over because of our Star Trek review club, too.)
posted by mordax at 10:54 AM on February 7, 2018 [4 favorites]
My opinion is that episode-by-episode posts for shows that drop all at once has gone poorly - there's less interest in the non-finale posts because a lot of us can't keep each individual episode straight without a synopsis. We do have the option to do both things simultaneously though: books included and show-only can run concurrently, and I think we should start doing that in these situations, facilitated by whomever is interested enough to post.
(I guess if we're interested enough to spoil, we're interested enough to create a thread.)
How does everybody else feel about that?
I also wonder.. should we be having this out in Fanfare Talk, or maybe take it to MetaTalk for wider participation? (I have some other etiquette questions that I've been mulling over because of our Star Trek review club, too.)
posted by mordax at 10:54 AM on February 7, 2018 [4 favorites]
Well, here's my experience. I saw ep 1 was posted and restricted my comments, waiting for the rest of the season to be posted so I could continue discussing the show. No new episodes were posted, so I drifted away from the thread and now I've binge-watched 2 whole shows since. I know I COULD have posted the next episode or a whole season thread, but it feels like stealing when someone else posted the first episode. And no matter what anyone else says, it will always feel like stealing, and I will never be comfortable with it. And as much as I like FanFare, I find myself returning to the awful but active previously.tv because there are mods who pay attention to what's going on in those threads.
posted by xyzzy at 11:04 AM on February 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by xyzzy at 11:04 AM on February 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
(I guess if we're interested enough to spoil, we're interested enough to create a thread.)
Citation needed.
I would welcome a more general metatalk thread, but at the moment I am way too angry and have far too low an opinion of my fellow mefites to write one that would past muster/not embarrass my mom.
posted by phearlez at 11:18 AM on February 7, 2018
Citation needed.
I would welcome a more general metatalk thread, but at the moment I am way too angry and have far too low an opinion of my fellow mefites to write one that would past muster/not embarrass my mom.
posted by phearlez at 11:18 AM on February 7, 2018
there's less interest in the non-finale posts because a lot of us can't keep each individual episode straight without a synopsis.
Yeaaah I can't remember which bit happens in which episode after watching the entire season. For Netflix shows we should lead with a full-season topic as well as an episode 1 topic.
Yes I could have posted the full season topic. No I didn't. I am sooper lazy.
posted by Justinian at 11:53 AM on February 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
Yeaaah I can't remember which bit happens in which episode after watching the entire season. For Netflix shows we should lead with a full-season topic as well as an episode 1 topic.
Yes I could have posted the full season topic. No I didn't. I am sooper lazy.
posted by Justinian at 11:53 AM on February 7, 2018 [1 favorite]
I think the show had enough twists to make posts for each episode make sense, but I had put off making those posts, as I'd wanted to recap each of the major threads of each episode.
posted by Pronoiac at 12:56 PM on February 7, 2018
posted by Pronoiac at 12:56 PM on February 7, 2018
Phearlez, can I offer you a hug? (I could use one too.)
posted by miss-lapin at 5:15 PM on February 7, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by miss-lapin at 5:15 PM on February 7, 2018 [3 favorites]
I have nothing against different people making new posts for a show. Not all of us have the time to watch consistently and then also make the post, I try to keep up but it doesn't always work out.
I also don't care if we make full season posts or episode-by-episode posts for Netflix dumps. (And also separate out book talks.) I'm happy to restrict comments as needed. My general problem with that episode 1 post was that before I realized it book talks and further season spoilers jumped out. I only said as much since that was the tone of the show in the first 2 episode without revealing any of the plot and I just wanted to respond to the first few comments I read about race and misogyny in the show. So getting my throat jumped on didn't really sit well with me when I did the least spoiling, and the general attitude was "well since no one cares enough to make an episode 2 post after two days and everyone is just freewheeling in here I guess it doesn't matter", so I said what I said. I actually skipped through most of the comments that I didn't even see phearlez' first comment, but sure, I'm sorry for mentioning that the post is getting out of hand without creating an episode 2 post.
posted by numaner at 6:54 PM on February 7, 2018
I also don't care if we make full season posts or episode-by-episode posts for Netflix dumps. (And also separate out book talks.) I'm happy to restrict comments as needed. My general problem with that episode 1 post was that before I realized it book talks and further season spoilers jumped out. I only said as much since that was the tone of the show in the first 2 episode without revealing any of the plot and I just wanted to respond to the first few comments I read about race and misogyny in the show. So getting my throat jumped on didn't really sit well with me when I did the least spoiling, and the general attitude was "well since no one cares enough to make an episode 2 post after two days and everyone is just freewheeling in here I guess it doesn't matter", so I said what I said. I actually skipped through most of the comments that I didn't even see phearlez' first comment, but sure, I'm sorry for mentioning that the post is getting out of hand without creating an episode 2 post.
posted by numaner at 6:54 PM on February 7, 2018
Were there spoilers? I didn't notice and had thought people were avoiding them. But I didn't follow the discussion that closely, I guess.
It really is a problem with these all-at-once shows. The first and last episode threads get activity, the rest don't. Seems like this means there should always, first, be a whole season post, and then people can post episodes if they're motivated.
I also understand this weird proprietary sense people have. There's nothing about FanFare that implies that an individual person is responsible for a particular show, or "owns" it, or whatever, but it sometimes feels like it, just because it takes effort to make these episode posts, especially about a new show, and that person is self-selecting for being enthusiastic and motivated.
On the other hand, it can turn into something that feels like a responsibility. I don't think there's quick solution to this, but maybe we can be more vocal about disavowing this view of FanFare?
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:31 PM on February 7, 2018
It really is a problem with these all-at-once shows. The first and last episode threads get activity, the rest don't. Seems like this means there should always, first, be a whole season post, and then people can post episodes if they're motivated.
I also understand this weird proprietary sense people have. There's nothing about FanFare that implies that an individual person is responsible for a particular show, or "owns" it, or whatever, but it sometimes feels like it, just because it takes effort to make these episode posts, especially about a new show, and that person is self-selecting for being enthusiastic and motivated.
On the other hand, it can turn into something that feels like a responsibility. I don't think there's quick solution to this, but maybe we can be more vocal about disavowing this view of FanFare?
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:31 PM on February 7, 2018
I noped out of that 'episode 1' thread pretty early -- I did post a comment asking Fizz to contact the mods to add the 'Books Included' spoiler condition. I didn't flag it, or use the contact form, since I assumed if Fizz cared enough to post the thread in the first place they'd follow up, but once the discussion seemed to be veering into future episodes on top of the book spoilers I gave up and removed the thread from my Activity. (And I see now that he never returned to the thread after his one comment, so, I really regret not self-flagging & hitting the contact form.)
It was me who added the show to Fanfare in the first place the day before it started streaming -- I was pretty sure I wouldn't have time to post the threads myself due to a suddenly busy weekend, but figured that with the buzz I'd seen over it on various sites someone was bound to take it on and I might as well get it into the drop-down menu so whoever finished the pilot first didn't have to wait to post.
I also understand this weird proprietary sense people have. There's nothing about FanFare that implies that an individual person is responsible for a particular show, or "owns" it, or whatever, but it sometimes feels like it, just because it takes effort to make these episode posts, especially about a new show, and that person is self-selecting for being enthusiastic and motivated.
On the other hand, it can turn into something that feels like a responsibility. I don't think there's quick solution to this, but maybe we can be more vocal about disavowing this view of FanFare?
I don't see responsibility as a negative - it certainly would have helped Altered Carbon if anyone had felt a sense of ownership/responsibility for steering the discussion, instead of the demonstration of the Bystander Effect that we got.
Anyway, I think this does need to be a metatalk.
posted by oh yeah! at 5:37 AM on February 8, 2018
It was me who added the show to Fanfare in the first place the day before it started streaming -- I was pretty sure I wouldn't have time to post the threads myself due to a suddenly busy weekend, but figured that with the buzz I'd seen over it on various sites someone was bound to take it on and I might as well get it into the drop-down menu so whoever finished the pilot first didn't have to wait to post.
I also understand this weird proprietary sense people have. There's nothing about FanFare that implies that an individual person is responsible for a particular show, or "owns" it, or whatever, but it sometimes feels like it, just because it takes effort to make these episode posts, especially about a new show, and that person is self-selecting for being enthusiastic and motivated.
On the other hand, it can turn into something that feels like a responsibility. I don't think there's quick solution to this, but maybe we can be more vocal about disavowing this view of FanFare?
I don't see responsibility as a negative - it certainly would have helped Altered Carbon if anyone had felt a sense of ownership/responsibility for steering the discussion, instead of the demonstration of the Bystander Effect that we got.
Anyway, I think this does need to be a metatalk.
posted by oh yeah! at 5:37 AM on February 8, 2018
Anyway, I think this does need to be a metatalk.
I've got one queued.
posted by mordax at 5:35 PM on February 8, 2018
I've got one queued.
posted by mordax at 5:35 PM on February 8, 2018
Isn't Fanfare Talk the Metatalk of Fanfare? I have confusion.
posted by Justinian at 6:13 PM on February 8, 2018
posted by Justinian at 6:13 PM on February 8, 2018
Isn't Fanfare Talk the Metatalk of Fanfare? I have confusion.
It is, but it's also the ghostiest of ghost towns of Metafilter, so, for the sake of people actually reading/commenting on the issue, Metatalk is better.
posted by oh yeah! at 6:57 PM on February 8, 2018 [3 favorites]
It is, but it's also the ghostiest of ghost towns of Metafilter, so, for the sake of people actually reading/commenting on the issue, Metatalk is better.
posted by oh yeah! at 6:57 PM on February 8, 2018 [3 favorites]
FanFare Talk: The ghostiest of ghost towns
posted by numaner at 9:58 PM on February 8, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by numaner at 9:58 PM on February 8, 2018 [2 favorites]
Whatever it takes for people to stop talking about stuff that happens in episode 2-10 in the thread explicitly labeled as episode 1, I'm all for it.
posted by skewed at 9:14 AM on February 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by skewed at 9:14 AM on February 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
I used the contact form yesterday or so to ask the mods to please do something about the Altered Carbon episode 1 thread (delete it entirely, delete the derails, add a mod warning at the top of the thread, whatever) and got a reply back that they’d see what was to be done.
posted by oh yeah! at 9:19 AM on February 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by oh yeah! at 9:19 AM on February 15, 2018 [1 favorite]
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posted by Nelson at 10:46 AM on February 7, 2018