Legends of Tomorrow: Guest Starring John Noble
April 2, 2018 8:14 PM - Season 3, Episode 17 - Subscribe
With the timeline barely stable, the Legends must tackle two anachronisms at the same time to try and keep Mallus at bay. Sara and Rip team up to stop Grodd from going after a particular target, leaving Nate and Wally to stop Amaya from changing her future.
I got my Damien Darhk / Legends team-up episode!! He works well with them despite the betrayal. I got the feeling he didn't really want to have to fight them in the end.
Other fun bits:
* Ray telling young Barry Obama "Run, Barry, run!"
* "Make America Grodd Again" should have been a terrible line, but coming from a giant telepathic gorilla, I totally bought it.
* John Noble as himself while filming Lord Of The Rings was inspired. Man, I miss Fringe.
posted by Servo5678 at 6:36 AM on April 3, 2018 [6 favorites]
Other fun bits:
* Ray telling young Barry Obama "Run, Barry, run!"
* "Make America Grodd Again" should have been a terrible line, but coming from a giant telepathic gorilla, I totally bought it.
* John Noble as himself while filming Lord Of The Rings was inspired. Man, I miss Fringe.
posted by Servo5678 at 6:36 AM on April 3, 2018 [6 favorites]
Obama was a delight.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:20 AM on April 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:20 AM on April 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
I love Legends of Tomorrow for trying to figure out how to explain it to non-watchers as much as anything else. So far, I've got:
'So the team saved a young Barack Obama from a telepathic gorilla from the future, then time-traveled to the set of Lord of the Rings to get the help of the real life actor who *voices* this season's Big Bad on the show so a team member could shrink down into the ear of a possessed girl and pretend to be a demon giving her orders to lead her into a trap hinging on spell advice from a wizard who guest starred a couple times. Also, a woman confronted her boss because he concealed the fact that she's a clone and he's been replacing her every time she dies on the job. Also, there's a whole Enemy Mine situation with the team captain's hated archnemesis, but I'm only getting to it at the end of this breathless recap because there was just that much crazy this week, and the plan fell apart when the archnemesis released the shrunken super gorilla from the glass jar he'd been incarcerated in earlier. Oh, and the episode opened with the guy who played Superman in Superman Returns singing a mnemonic for the ship emergency code that covered this week's broad category of disaster because another team member accidentally called an alert with the ship code for 'pancake breakfast.''
All of that, and I'm aware I'm missing many important details and will have to try harder before my SO's available to regale with this. (I thought Scoobynatural would be the craziest thing I'd see for at least a couple weeks, and BOOM, here's Legends, raising the bar.)
posted by mordax at 9:38 AM on April 3, 2018 [9 favorites]
'So the team saved a young Barack Obama from a telepathic gorilla from the future, then time-traveled to the set of Lord of the Rings to get the help of the real life actor who *voices* this season's Big Bad on the show so a team member could shrink down into the ear of a possessed girl and pretend to be a demon giving her orders to lead her into a trap hinging on spell advice from a wizard who guest starred a couple times. Also, a woman confronted her boss because he concealed the fact that she's a clone and he's been replacing her every time she dies on the job. Also, there's a whole Enemy Mine situation with the team captain's hated archnemesis, but I'm only getting to it at the end of this breathless recap because there was just that much crazy this week, and the plan fell apart when the archnemesis released the shrunken super gorilla from the glass jar he'd been incarcerated in earlier. Oh, and the episode opened with the guy who played Superman in Superman Returns singing a mnemonic for the ship emergency code that covered this week's broad category of disaster because another team member accidentally called an alert with the ship code for 'pancake breakfast.''
All of that, and I'm aware I'm missing many important details and will have to try harder before my SO's available to regale with this. (I thought Scoobynatural would be the craziest thing I'd see for at least a couple weeks, and BOOM, here's Legends, raising the bar.)
posted by mordax at 9:38 AM on April 3, 2018 [9 favorites]
I just love Ray so much. When I think of how he started on Arrow, creepy-stalking Felicity by buying her place of employment, to the joyful ball of sunshine he is now?
posted by oh yeah! at 11:16 AM on April 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by oh yeah! at 11:16 AM on April 3, 2018 [4 favorites]
sooo how does the water totem activate? or is Ray not the right one for it?
I loved this episode so much. Everything from how great that actor nailed young Obama, to the perfection of John Noble having been in both this and The Lord of the Rings and Mick of course watches the movies and Sarah, having interacted with Mallus at length, realizes that's the same voice, to Ava being the twelve one Rip has brought back from 2213 to work for the Bureau, which is a mindfuck I can't even begin to imagine if I were Ava.
Oh and a giant mound of earth knocking Grodd into the distance Team Rocket style was just the icing on the cake.
posted by numaner at 4:05 PM on April 3, 2018 [3 favorites]
I loved this episode so much. Everything from how great that actor nailed young Obama, to the perfection of John Noble having been in both this and The Lord of the Rings and Mick of course watches the movies and Sarah, having interacted with Mallus at length, realizes that's the same voice, to Ava being the twelve one Rip has brought back from 2213 to work for the Bureau, which is a mindfuck I can't even begin to imagine if I were Ava.
Oh and a giant mound of earth knocking Grodd into the distance Team Rocket style was just the icing on the cake.
posted by numaner at 4:05 PM on April 3, 2018 [3 favorites]
I cannot believe I just watched a massive talking gorilla try to wipe out a young Barack Obama while saying, "Make America Grodd again." This show is utterly insane and delightful.
This is what I love Legends for. There is nothing too cheesy and over the top they can't make come back around and make it work PERFECTLY.
posted by mikelieman at 4:47 PM on April 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
This is what I love Legends for. There is nothing too cheesy and over the top they can't make come back around and make it work PERFECTLY.
posted by mikelieman at 4:47 PM on April 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
That was a brilliant episode. I know it's ridiculous and over-the-top but it so embraces its extravagance that it just somehow works.
I almost hate to pick nits after that 44 minutes of TV, but I am a bit stumped as to why Nate is suddenly able to wield the totem when he didn't have much luck doing so before, and I do have to wonder how or why Ray will have any affinity with the water totem.
I also was wondering why Mick picked up his weapon again when Damien was on the ship if he ws still wearing his totem and still retained control of fire.
Wally is such a better character here, it's amazing.
That was such an evil cliffhanger to leave us with. Naughty writers.
posted by sardonyx at 6:54 PM on April 3, 2018 [3 favorites]
I almost hate to pick nits after that 44 minutes of TV, but I am a bit stumped as to why Nate is suddenly able to wield the totem when he didn't have much luck doing so before, and I do have to wonder how or why Ray will have any affinity with the water totem.
I also was wondering why Mick picked up his weapon again when Damien was on the ship if he ws still wearing his totem and still retained control of fire.
Wally is such a better character here, it's amazing.
That was such an evil cliffhanger to leave us with. Naughty writers.
posted by sardonyx at 6:54 PM on April 3, 2018 [3 favorites]
Oh, and since Amaya mindwiped herself, there's no reason that she couldn't have gotten pregnant (and not realized it) before she left Nate and the ship, and then not remembered who her daughter's father is. And given that she only seems to have one daughter, it really makes it much more likely that Nate is the daddy.
posted by sardonyx at 6:55 PM on April 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by sardonyx at 6:55 PM on April 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
I keep thinking why can't Nate be the dad, except (a) Kuasa at least seemed to know who her grandfather was or at least enough to know that it's not Nate, and (b) her descendants really don't look like anyone put that much cream in the gene pool. I'm thinking of some folks I know IRL and well...it is most likely noticeable if that happened.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:11 PM on April 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:11 PM on April 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
Meanwhile, Twitter is trying to decide if Grodd attacking Obama is “real” or meme fakery.
posted by Servo5678 at 2:56 AM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Servo5678 at 2:56 AM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
ugh, of course that thread has a whole bunch of mansplainers trying to mock the show for being "teenage girl soap operas" and ruining their precious comics.
but yes i love that out of context it's friggin' hilarious.
posted by numaner at 11:38 AM on April 4, 2018
but yes i love that out of context it's friggin' hilarious.
posted by numaner at 11:38 AM on April 4, 2018
Rip: Where are you going?
Sarah: To go talk to someone who can think straight when the whole world has gone crazy.
Sigh...
posted by plastic_animals at 11:44 AM on April 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
Sarah: To go talk to someone who can think straight when the whole world has gone crazy.
Sigh...
posted by plastic_animals at 11:44 AM on April 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
I also was wondering why Mick picked up his weapon again when Damien was on the ship if he ws still wearing his totem and still retained control of fire.
I was wondering that too, maybe he doesn't have enough fine control with his power yet, whereas the gun lets him aim better?
Wally is such a better character here, it's amazing.
Yes, him being the new kid on the ship is a much better chemistry with the group than a second Flash wallowing in his redundancy.
I guess I was wrong about him being able to outspeed the magic users. Which I still call BS because he's now just as fast if not faster than Barry, when he was training to outspeed Savitar in the previous season of The Flash (unless Barry came out of the Speed Force much faster, in which case I missed that). And if even old Jay Garrick can enter Flash Time with Barry and Jesse where everyone basically stood still, Wally should be able to move just as fast.
posted by numaner at 12:06 PM on April 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
I was wondering that too, maybe he doesn't have enough fine control with his power yet, whereas the gun lets him aim better?
Wally is such a better character here, it's amazing.
Yes, him being the new kid on the ship is a much better chemistry with the group than a second Flash wallowing in his redundancy.
I guess I was wrong about him being able to outspeed the magic users. Which I still call BS because he's now just as fast if not faster than Barry, when he was training to outspeed Savitar in the previous season of The Flash (unless Barry came out of the Speed Force much faster, in which case I missed that). And if even old Jay Garrick can enter Flash Time with Barry and Jesse where everyone basically stood still, Wally should be able to move just as fast.
posted by numaner at 12:06 PM on April 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
Oh wait I just got reminded of when Grodd mind controlled Sara and then she got knocked out by Isaac f'ing Newton. This show is amazing.
posted by numaner at 12:46 PM on April 4, 2018
posted by numaner at 12:46 PM on April 4, 2018
also, this is the second time Grodd has gone after a US president! Former Time Bureau director Bennett was killed by Grodd as he was trying to prevent Alexander Hamilton from seeing Hamilton the musical.
posted by numaner at 1:01 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by numaner at 1:01 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
I think there was a quick aside early on from Barry or Cisco that Barry was much faster after returning from the Speed Force. Barry also said he doesn't know how Flash Time works, so it's not clear if that new ability is something he got from being in the Speed Force or via some other means.
Wally probably could have taken the totem from Damien if he had just gone ahead and grabbed it instead of announcing his intent to grab it. When people do that I'm always reminded of the bathtub scene in The Good, The Bad and The Ugly when Tuco tells the guy he just shot "When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk."
posted by plastic_animals at 1:19 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
Wally probably could have taken the totem from Damien if he had just gone ahead and grabbed it instead of announcing his intent to grab it. When people do that I'm always reminded of the bathtub scene in The Good, The Bad and The Ugly when Tuco tells the guy he just shot "When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk."
posted by plastic_animals at 1:19 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
apparently next week is the season finale?? damn. and I've been seeing stills of the Wild West from the cast on instagram, including this great Wild Wild West video (with an appearance by Jonah Hex!)
and check out this behind-the-scene photo with Jes Macallan (Ava) and Gorilla Grodd's motion actor, Daniel Cudmore.
and Ava will be a series regular in season 4!
posted by numaner at 1:19 PM on April 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
and check out this behind-the-scene photo with Jes Macallan (Ava) and Gorilla Grodd's motion actor, Daniel Cudmore.
and Ava will be a series regular in season 4!
posted by numaner at 1:19 PM on April 4, 2018 [4 favorites]
Former Time Bureau director Bennett was killed by Grodd as he was trying to prevent Alexander Hamilton from seeing Hamilton the musical.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat?
OH GOD I'D SO WANT TO SEE THAT HAPPEN.
So does that mean Ava joins the Legends' ship or is just a permanent semi-ally/semi-antagonist head of the Time Bureau?
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:43 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat?
OH GOD I'D SO WANT TO SEE THAT HAPPEN.
So does that mean Ava joins the Legends' ship or is just a permanent semi-ally/semi-antagonist head of the Time Bureau?
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:43 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Yeah we totally got ripped off on that Hamilton scene! It was just a video call from Bennett that showed him telling the crew why the Bureau couldn't help with whatever mission that was because they were handling that, and then Grodd attacks and kills him in the video call.
So does that mean Ava joins the Legends' ship or is just a permanent semi-ally/semi-antagonist head of the Time Bureau?
I'm going to guess she joins the crew to fight her clone uprising.
posted by numaner at 2:43 PM on April 4, 2018
So does that mean Ava joins the Legends' ship or is just a permanent semi-ally/semi-antagonist head of the Time Bureau?
I'm going to guess she joins the crew to fight her clone uprising.
posted by numaner at 2:43 PM on April 4, 2018
Bravo, nicebookrack!
posted by sardonyx at 3:07 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by sardonyx at 3:07 PM on April 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
Finally reading through the linked reviews, and...I have to agree with the Den of Geek comments about Amaya. The plot she's currently stuck with isn't servicing her well. Some of the other characters are also dealing with some pretty heavy stuff (Sara and Zari in particular), but they've been allowed some great moments of lightness and humor. The only time I can remember feeling that sense of *fun* from Amaya this season is when she was being the pirate queen. On another show, Amaya's Tragic Past + Doomed Love Life + Twisted Family Tree could be awesome, but on this particular show it's not working for me. She's being played completely straight while all of the other characters have some slight (or not so slight) level of pure crack.
I wish she had gotten an episode like Zari's groundhog day episode. Or maybe it's her chemistry with Nate and Kuasa that wasn't working for me this season? Kuasa was a great character, but I could almost feel the energy drain away when she and Amaya confronted each other. Aaargh, so much potential.
and Ava will be a series regular in season 4!
Eeeeee!
posted by Salieri at 4:19 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
I wish she had gotten an episode like Zari's groundhog day episode. Or maybe it's her chemistry with Nate and Kuasa that wasn't working for me this season? Kuasa was a great character, but I could almost feel the energy drain away when she and Amaya confronted each other. Aaargh, so much potential.
and Ava will be a series regular in season 4!
Eeeeee!
posted by Salieri at 4:19 PM on April 4, 2018 [3 favorites]
So, was Rip's comment that Ava was the twelfth Ava a Doctor Who call out?
posted by plastic_animals at 5:54 PM on April 4, 2018
posted by plastic_animals at 5:54 PM on April 4, 2018
I agree about Amaya, she has much better chemistry when Mick is trying to get her to live it up while she still can. Although Mick has pretty good chemistry with everyone, but that's just how Dominic Purcel acts.
But I also don't see how else they can portray her in the writing at this point. Vixen was basically brought to the Arrowverse probably through copyright negotiations, and then they did the one-off episode on Arrow, and then the animated show was pretty good, but then they established her with the whole backstory of the totem and Kuasa. So now Amaya is stuck. The only way they could've gone would be to not have the romance between her and Nate, but then neither of them would have much of a role on the ship itself (they don't do any sciency stuff, Nate's history knowledge hasn't really come into use because Gideon knows everything, Mick's already the non-contributing black sheep of the ship). I mean, to really fix Amaya's story, you would have to either never put Nate on the ship in season 2, which would mean no Captain Steel, although in hindsight we probably didn't need him, or make her not Mari's grandmother, but like a great aunt or something, so the totem could still get to Mari but the romance with Nate could still happen, and they wouldn't have to be all sad about it.
posted by numaner at 7:36 AM on April 5, 2018
But I also don't see how else they can portray her in the writing at this point. Vixen was basically brought to the Arrowverse probably through copyright negotiations, and then they did the one-off episode on Arrow, and then the animated show was pretty good, but then they established her with the whole backstory of the totem and Kuasa. So now Amaya is stuck. The only way they could've gone would be to not have the romance between her and Nate, but then neither of them would have much of a role on the ship itself (they don't do any sciency stuff, Nate's history knowledge hasn't really come into use because Gideon knows everything, Mick's already the non-contributing black sheep of the ship). I mean, to really fix Amaya's story, you would have to either never put Nate on the ship in season 2, which would mean no Captain Steel, although in hindsight we probably didn't need him, or make her not Mari's grandmother, but like a great aunt or something, so the totem could still get to Mari but the romance with Nate could still happen, and they wouldn't have to be all sad about it.
posted by numaner at 7:36 AM on April 5, 2018
So, was Rip's comment that Ava was the twelfth Ava a Doctor Who call out?
I want it to be, but there's little evidence it is. Especially since the new woman Doctor will be the 13th (well 14th is technically correct, which is the best kind of correct!)
posted by numaner at 7:38 AM on April 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
I want it to be, but there's little evidence it is. Especially since the new woman Doctor will be the 13th (well 14th is technically correct, which is the best kind of correct!)
posted by numaner at 7:38 AM on April 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
haha nicebookrack reminded me in the FPP that the Vietnam War episode was about Grodd trying to kill Lyndon B Johnson, so this makes it the THIRD time he's gone after a US president!
posted by numaner at 8:59 AM on April 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by numaner at 8:59 AM on April 5, 2018 [1 favorite]
Grodd has only gone after two presidents. Hamilton was never president.
posted by plastic_animals at 9:09 AM on April 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by plastic_animals at 9:09 AM on April 5, 2018 [3 favorites]
ahhh i kept thinking i was wrong about that, but i wasn't sure. thanks!
posted by numaner at 9:33 AM on April 5, 2018
posted by numaner at 9:33 AM on April 5, 2018
I mean, to really fix Amaya's story, you would have to either never put Nate on the ship in season 2, which would mean no Captain Steel
I'd be willing to risk a timequake to make that happen. To the jump ship!
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 9:36 AM on April 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
I'd be willing to risk a timequake to make that happen. To the jump ship!
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 9:36 AM on April 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
After rewatching the season I retract my previous comment. I actually enjoy Nate a lot now.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 2:32 AM on August 19, 2018
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 2:32 AM on August 19, 2018
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And whoever was providing the voice of Young Barry had him down cold.
Between John Noble and Neal McDonough, there was so much delicious scenery-chewing in one hour, and I am here for it. I wish I could see an alternate universe of Darhk, Zari and Mick off having adventures together. I'd love to see the way that particular grouping would work together.
posted by Salieri at 8:53 PM on April 2, 2018 [5 favorites]