Andor: Daughter of Ferrix

November 16, 2022 12:37 AM - Season 1, Episode 11

Back on the run, Andor plans his next moves.
posted by EndsOfInvention (112 comments total)

- Poor Bee :( You don't see many people in Star Wars being genuinely nice to a droid. Brasso is a good dude.
- Loved the sparring between Vel and Kleya, and Luthen and Saw. Forest Whitaker is so good in the role.
- Finally getting some pew pew pew space battle.
- Getting increasingly convinced Karn's going to show up on Ferrix and inadvertently ruin the ISB's sting operation.
- Andor has the Manifesto back! Nemik's legacy will live on!
posted by EndsOfInvention at 1:30 AM on November 16, 2022 [11 favorites]

Wondering what answer Bix gave; potentially great way to show that torture is ineffective.

Vel and Kleya was fascinating; Vel seems to view things as competing for Luthens favor.
posted by nubs at 1:36 AM on November 16, 2022 [7 favorites]

After this episode was finished I had to sit with the melancholy of it and let the credits run all the way to the end. There were so many moments where I could barely take the sadness, especially when B2EMO was on screen.

Not that we didn’t get a “hell yeah” moment. Speaking of, I was struck by how easy the space encounter was to follow. Way too many Star Wars ship and fighter battles, and this goes for science fiction in general, are incomprehensible to the viewer. With this I understood at all times what was going on and where the various craft were. Clearly, Gilroy and his team can do it all.

And holy fuck, seeing those young teens buy into some awful regressive religion is heartbreaking. This Star War is too real, sometimes.

Also, Karn is such a… I lack the word really. That moment where he steals credits from his mom to go to Ferrix is pathetic, even for him. He’s a weird character, sympathetic yet despicable. Like EndsOfInvention, I suspect his intervention on Ferrix will save the day for Cassian, though it’s probably going to be bloody.

Goddamn it, I hope B2EMO survives.
posted by Kattullus at 1:43 AM on November 16, 2022 [7 favorites]

holy fuck, seeing those young teens buy into some awful regressive religion is heartbreaking

This is the way.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 4:43 AM on November 16, 2022 [20 favorites]

Iconic scenes between Luthen and Saw, Mon and Vel, Syril and Sgt Mosk. Unexpected levels of sophistication in Luthen's ship (where did he get it?); and Luthen's tactical skills and piloting are also top notch. Palpable sadness at the end from Cassian. And, "I call it war."
posted by domdib at 5:15 AM on November 16, 2022 [2 favorites]

Han wishes the Falcon was as cool as Luthen's Fondor.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 5:18 AM on November 16, 2022 [11 favorites]

"I can w-w-w-w-wait to make sure."

I just thought of that line and had immediate need of a tissue.
posted by Kattullus at 5:38 AM on November 16, 2022 [13 favorites]

How did they create a Droid that I'm this emotionally invested in?
posted by nubs at 6:09 AM on November 16, 2022 [13 favorites]

Part of the emotional investment is probably the sense of B2EMO's fraility - the stuttering, the obvious wear-and-tear, the near-constant need to be charging, and the strong sense of emotional reliance on humans. It's quite a contrast with R2D2's omnicompetence or C3PO's brittle pomposity.
posted by domdib at 6:37 AM on November 16, 2022 [37 favorites]

Some cool backstory on the Cantwell-class Arrestor Cruiser that tries to detain Luthen - the ship originated from a concept design for a Star Destroyer pitched to George Lucas for the original Star Wars by concept artist Colin Cantwell, who also designed the X-Wing, Y-Wing, and TIE Fighter. The large dishes (used as tractor beam projectors in Andor) were originally intended to be weapons - a design idea reused for the Death Star superlaser.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 7:14 AM on November 16, 2022 [4 favorites]

I think Maarva knew she was dying and planned for her funeral to be the event that really pops off events on Ferrix. No way she goes out that quietly. Still heartbroken for Bee, though. They're good dogs droids, Bront.
posted by orrnyereg at 7:47 AM on November 16, 2022 [14 favorites]

Call me a cynic, but I never fully believe a tv death unless you see the death on-screen.
posted by Kattullus at 8:47 AM on November 16, 2022 [3 favorites]

I'm not so sure about Maarva - I think Gilroy is making the braver choice of letting her death be just that. Certainly, I was red herringed a bit by talk of passages under the hotel in earlier episodes into thinking she was going to do something crazy (and maybe fatal). But Brasso isn't behaving in any way that suggests this is a ruse, and he's the most likely to know?
posted by domdib at 9:10 AM on November 16, 2022 [3 favorites]

Yes, and Brasso's a stand-up guy (one of the true heroes of this show) and he wouldn't make Maarva's friends or Bee suffer unnecessarily.
posted by orrnyereg at 9:15 AM on November 16, 2022 [8 favorites]

As I continue to mull the episode, I'm left feeling to some extent like this episode and the next one maybe should have been combined or dropped together (like the first three); while I enjoyed this episode, it was really about moving the pieces into position for next week (and it's very efficient, time wise) when Maarva's funeral will bring almost all of our players together.

Poor Mon - how harsh it must be to know that you can solve your problem and the solution is likely one that Leida would be open to, and yet not want to accept it because you know the true cost of it.
posted by nubs at 11:02 AM on November 16, 2022 [4 favorites]

I was not expecting to be crying five minutes into this episode.
posted by wakannai at 1:04 PM on November 16, 2022 [2 favorites]

Anyone else note the very deliberately displayed "just a stick, honest guv" when Saul's dudes frisked Luthen?
posted by coriolisdave at 1:45 PM on November 16, 2022 [9 favorites]

Indeed. It had a very suggestive shape... and it's a nice call-out to Gandalf's entry to Meduseld.
posted by domdib at 1:59 PM on November 16, 2022 [2 favorites]

I sort of agree about dropping these two episodes together from the point of view of dramatic coherence; but I also can see that for the Mouse at least, keeping people talking for one more week is probably more valuable - and they might not have anticipated the level of interest by this stage?
posted by domdib at 2:02 PM on November 16, 2022

coriolisdave, there's feverish speculation online that Luthen is a former Jedi (and, with this episode's short scene between Vel and Kleya in the antique shop providing a nice mirroring of Stellan Skarsgard’s incredible speech at the end of the previous episode, that Kieya is, or was, his apprentice.)

For me, the clincher was that earlier speech, in which the first of Luthen's sacrifices was his inner calm, spoken as he stands cloaked on a catwalk. If you have an interest, I strongly recommend recent episodes of the A More Civilized Age podcast: they go deep into this stuff, exploring the lore and generating some real insights from the visuals and political themes. (I can't recall who first suggested the podcast here, but my sincere thanks: it's excellent.)

Today's episode re-emphasized that everything about Luthen has hidden layers within layers; it wouldn't surprise me to learn that that his "staff" is something else as well.

Three further thoughts:

• First, I was struck how incredibly propulsive the show is, constantly moving forward, ratcheting up the tension with barely a backwards glance. Characters are removed from the board with merciless finality: Andor reluctantly admits to Ruescott that they may be the only escaped prisoners who have survived. Maarva dies, and we don’t see it. Yet no matter how briefly they appear – Andor’s adoptive father is barely granted a minute of on-screen time – characters never feel superfluous.
• Second, unlike the previous Star Wars series, things make sense. Luthen escapes the tractor beam not by ducking and weaving or pure luck but through effective strategy: initiating an engine burn prompts the cruiser to increase its pull, making the flechettes that destroy the saucer much more effective, which allows him to deal with the TIE fighters before he jumps into hyperspace. Water from a pipe is used to short out an electrically conductive floor. Most actions are pragmatic, and perhaps the that's the central thesis of the show: if you want to start a revolution, you use whatever tools are at hand.
• Finally, a big part of what I think makes this show work so well is its lack of sentimentality. It doesn't feel weighted down by fan service; any references to canon are subtle, and usually mentioned in passing. Yes, there were X-wings outside Saw's hideout, but they were badly battered and only briefly seen in an establishing shot. Even the music is completely unlike the classic Williams score. (The introduction of strings in the soundtrack of this episode was so jarring it actually took me out of the experience for a moment). While it meshes wonderfully with what we know, the show doesn't feel obligated to the larger Star Wars universe. Not even Rogue One was that daring.

posted by Bora Horza Gobuchul at 3:02 PM on November 16, 2022 [28 favorites]

I could be misremembering but wasn’t the stick the same war club that Luthen tried to sell to Mon in an earlier episode?
posted by orrnyereg at 3:48 PM on November 16, 2022

I think the thing Luthen has on Segra Milo is the pommel for the extending cane/sword that we see him carrying briefly after he arrives on Ferrix and meets Bix.

initiating an engine burn prompts the cruiser to increase its pull, making the flechettes that destroy the saucer much more effective,

Of course! I didn't twig that's why he wanted them to dial up the tractor beam!

I strongly recommend recent episodes of the A More Civilized Age podcast: they go deep into this stuff, exploring the lore and generating some real insights from the visuals and political themes.

It's good huh? I'm always waiting on tenterhooks for the AMCA episode to drop each Monday to hear what they say about Andor.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 4:04 PM on November 16, 2022 [1 favorite]

Anyone else note the very deliberately displayed "just a stick, honest guv" when Saul's dudes frisked Luthen?

The pepper grinder! I suspect it's part of the cane we saw him with back in episode 3, but everything about Luthen has hidden depths, like his ship -where does he get such wonderful toys?
posted by nubs at 4:18 PM on November 16, 2022

I love the deep decency of the two alien fisherfolk who catch two humans clearly about to steal their ship and whose conclusion is:

"The Empire won't kill you today. Do you need a ride?"

It's almost as if they heard of the escape, and flew in to see whether they could help.
posted by kandinski at 4:51 PM on November 16, 2022 [20 favorites]

I want Chopper and B2EMO to go be droid do crimes.

holy shit was that Meero's Imperial agent chatting with Cinta about Maarva's death? tense!
posted by Sauce Trough at 6:12 PM on November 16, 2022 [4 favorites]

Ha! I knew the hit on Andor was Kleya taking the initiative to protect Luthen against his wishes. He’s going to Ferrix now, everyone is going to Ferrix, except Mon.
posted by rodlymight at 6:34 PM on November 16, 2022

I loved this and cried at bits but I have to be that guy and as mundane spy thriller genre questions for MeFiFanFarers.

IIUC Luthen is going to Maarva's funeral too, because he wants to be sure Andor is killed? Because Andor knows his identity?

Or is there a better reason?

Because if it's the first one this is horrible operational security practices if so, he exposes himself more not less doing this.
posted by mark k at 7:38 PM on November 16, 2022 [1 favorite]

I thought the episode's final scene of Andor on the beach, looking at the sun breaking through the clouds as he processes the death of his mother, was one of the subtlest and most satisfying pieces of visual storytelling we've seen in Star Wars. And it continues to add depth to Rogue One.

Cassian, in the penultimate scene, risks his freedom to try to get a message to his mother. "Tell Maarva I'm okay. Tell her I'm thinking about her. She'd be proud of me."

But she's gone. Marva Andor will never know that her son was one of the heroes of Aldhani whom she so admired.

Five years later, Cassian finds himself once again on a beach, watching a terrible light break through the clouds. In his last moments, his thoughts turn to his late mother. He looks at Jyn Erso beside him, who just lost her father. Facing death together, he says, "Your father would've been proud of you, Jyn."

This show, man.
posted by reclusive_thousandaire at 7:56 PM on November 16, 2022 [61 favorites]

Even for an episode that was mostly just setting up the pieces for the finale, this one had surprising depth:

- Bee's plaintive requests reminded me of Futurama's "Jurassic Bark," and that's not a comparison that I'd make lightly.

- Karn's pilfering from his mom, on the other hand, reminded me of Paul Giamatti's character in Sideways doing the same, and while I instantly lost empathy for Giamatti's character because of that, I can't say the same for Karn because he was never that likeable... but, there's a very begrudging smidgen of respect in me for his being so doggedly persistent in his whole Javert Jr. thing. You get the feeling that, if the only way that Karn could get Cass would be to crash the Death Star into Coruscant, he'd be caught trying to sneak onto the bridge.

- Speaking of not likeable, but maybe having a smidgen more of respect for: Kleya. Plates in the air and knives on the floor.

- Mon's agony at possibly having to give up her daughter to a gangster's son is difficult to watch. I'm starting to wonder if she throws over the senatorship to go full rebel just to spare her husband and daughter any more involvement in her thing, as estranged as she is from them both... although they may have a worse fate in store, and maybe that's what sends her to Yavin.

- Saw and Luthen's meeting was something else; they've set up Saw as being very paranoid and very dangerous, and things were dicey there even if we knew that Saw would come out of it.

- Love the fishermen and how the whole situation pivoted to "on the other hand, fuck the Empire, amirite?"
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:21 PM on November 16, 2022 [13 favorites]

I loved Luthen's dialogue with Saw. With them figuring out the shape of Luthen's betrayal/ cover up, and then giving Saw the choice. It showed true limits to Luthen's power as a spymaster. And his trust in Saw. And also just the sheer complexity and bleakness of their situation.
posted by Nelson at 8:30 PM on November 16, 2022 [6 favorites]

IIUC Luthen is going to Maarva's funeral too, because he wants to be sure Andor is killed? Because Andor knows his identity?

Or is there a better reason?

The "the other piece" Luthen was talking to Kleya about trying to acquire is Andor. He wants to re-recruit him and thinks that's what Kleya is working on, she thinks he's a danger to Luthen and is trying to kill him.
posted by rodlymight at 8:33 PM on November 16, 2022 [4 favorites]

I loved the fishermen so much! The aftermath of the prison break was pretty rough, in that I really did have my doubts that anyone could've survived the swim + the wilds + imperial search ships. A lot of shows and movies bleat about hope without doing much to inspire it, but what could be more heartwarming than a couple of strangers passing up a big payday because they don't want to do any favors for the Empire, either? Delightful! I choose to believe all the surviving prisoners ran into someone that cool.

Oof, Mon Mothma would be reconciled to selling off her daughter already if Vel weren't there to judge her. Somehow leading raids on the Empire did not impress me as much as learning that Vel apparently bucked the tradition of her entire planet (or at least her family and social class) to remain single until she became an old maid in her mid-20s.
posted by grandiloquiet at 9:05 PM on November 16, 2022 [5 favorites]

Um, were those not…well, big damn lightsabers mounted on the sides of Luthen’s ship??
posted by Naberius at 10:03 PM on November 16, 2022 [13 favorites]

He wants to re-recruit him and thinks that's what Kleya is working on, she thinks he's a danger to Luthen and is trying to kill him.

OK. I missed that. It was made explicit at some point? I knew people speculated about it, but I never picked it up from the show itself.

And especially this episode, where he makes a big deal about how protecting his identity is a matter of life and death--including the death of others, if necessary.
posted by mark k at 10:23 PM on November 16, 2022 [1 favorite]

Is this thread canon-included?
posted by andrewdoull at 11:25 PM on November 16, 2022

big damn lightsabers mounted on the sides of Luthen’s ship

It’s a single light sabre with dual red blades.
posted by andrewdoull at 11:26 PM on November 16, 2022 [3 favorites]

And it continues to add depth to Rogue One.

I thought about the beach moment in the same way as you - a kind of foreshadowing to an end we already know.

I've also been impressed with the recurring use of the word "climb" - ascension as salvation. To escape after the heist. To get out of the prison. K2SO will say the same in Rogue One. And Jyn's ascension at the end of Rogue One is what saves the day, even if she and Cassian don't live to tell that story.

Prequels are fraught and somehow Gilroy make Rogue One work and a prequel to Rogue One work. Astonishing.
posted by crossoverman at 11:32 PM on November 16, 2022 [2 favorites]

Han wishes the Falcon was as cool as Luthen's Fondor.

That encounter with the Arrestor Cruiser reminded me strongly of a similar encounter in Brian Daley's Han Solo at Stars' End (1979), in which:

• Han is trying to escape from an agricultural planet in the Falcon, which is camouflaged inside a gigantic grain-barge shell.
• As they reach the upper atmosphere, a dreadnaught on patrol locks a tractor beam onto them.
• Han opens the hatches and allows grain to be pulled out of the barge by the tractor beam, blinding the dreadnaught's sensors.
• He then blows the explosive bolts holding the Falcon in place while activating the braking thrusters on the barge, causing it to fall backward and collide with the dreadnaught, allowing the Falcon to escape.

posted by The Tensor at 11:58 PM on November 16, 2022 [7 favorites]

Prequels are fraught and somehow Gilroy make Rogue One work and a prequel to Rogue One work. Astonishing.

And it's impressive how this show is driving the demand for more prequels. The A More Civilized Age crew are already raring for a young Luthen series (still played by Skarsgård, natch), and during his escape in this ep my s/o turned to me and said that he must've been a fighter pilot once, he's got some real moves and it would be interesting to see a show about where he learned it from. It's supremely ironic given how skeptical people were towards the concept of a show centered on Cassian Andor, and this show is already the prequel of a prequel of a movie we've got sequels for.
posted by Apocryphon at 12:14 AM on November 17, 2022 [6 favorites]

Is Luthen…the most competent character we've seen in any Star War? I mean, getting through to Saw is no small feat, especially when he's "in a mood." And while you could credit his escape from the Cantwell cruiser to being rich enough to trick out your ship like a Space James Bond car, well, you've still gotta have the tactical savvy to make appropriate use of those wonderful toys.

(Mrs. CoB said "I want one of those," for her Republic Intelligence field operative TTRPG PC, in response to the flechette launcher. I confess that as her GM I am disinclined to permit it…)
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 5:16 AM on November 17, 2022 [8 favorites]

If the LEGO corporation has any sense, they'll start designing a model of Luthen's ship for sale today.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 5:24 AM on November 17, 2022 [5 favorites]

OK. I missed that. It was made explicit at some point? I knew people speculated about it, but I never picked it up from the show itself.

The only confirmation is the call he has with Kleya in this ep. She asks him how things went and he says he got what he came for {Saw), then he asks about the other item he wants and she says negotiations are ongoing and that there is another buyer, and he stressed how important the other item is. I He could be saying how important it is to kill Andor, but with it all being couched as acquisitions and the direct analogy to Saw joining up, I take it as confirmation that Luthen really wants Andor on his side. He considers him to be as valuable as Saw or Lonni, at least potentially, having shown his face to him, unlike Kreegyr.
posted by rodlymight at 5:26 AM on November 17, 2022 [1 favorite]

If the LEGO corporation has any sense, they'll start designing a model of Luthen's ship for sale today.

They've already released an "Ambush on Ferrix" set so I'd bet a Fondor set is not far off.
posted by The Nutmeg of Consolation at 5:48 AM on November 17, 2022 [2 favorites]

Further evidence that Kleya is going above and beyond is that she's so dedicated to keeping Luthen safe from even close allies like Vel that they almost don't find out about Maarva's funeral.

Now for some wild speculation, is Vel still carrying that khyber crystal (because Kleya never let her see Luthen)? Remember that shot of Luthen's Checkov's cane-handle this ep? Know what it looks like, and what khyber crystals are used for in Star Wars?

lightsabers, baby

posted by rodlymight at 5:49 AM on November 17, 2022 [1 favorite]

initiating an engine burn prompts the cruiser to increase its pull, making the flechettes that destroy the saucer much more effective,

Of course! I didn't twig that's why he wanted them to dial up the tractor beam!

It's a visual metaphor for Luthen's desire for the Empire to tighten its grip so the Rebellion can grow stronger.
posted by briank at 5:58 AM on November 17, 2022 [34 favorites]

Um, were those not…well, big damn lightsabers mounted on the sides of Luthen’s ship??

I think it's probably the same beam-weapon tech as the Republic used on the Clone Wars-era gunships (example - see the orb-shaped side turrets).
posted by EndsOfInvention at 6:31 AM on November 17, 2022 [3 favorites]

Gonna call out the lightsaber Fondor weapon as a rare misstep in Andor. First, it's space wizard tech, or at least sure looks like it. Second, it's ridiculous. A melee-range weapon on a spaceship? Something that will only be useful if your enemy flies within 1-2 spaceship lengths from you? I realize that kind of ridiculousness is par for the course for Star Wars but Andor hasn't been doing that. (Or maybe the weapon has another purpose? As a Youtube comment I read points out; that thing would be good for cutting open capital ships.) I was thrilled in the moment watching the surprise weapon and a bit of space combat silliness doesn't spoil the rest of the show, but it feels like an unnecessary indulgence.

Also a misstep IMHO is the lightsaber-like pepper grinder Luthen has when being searched by Saw's people. It's really not clear it's actually a lightsaber. But the way the prop is designed and the shot lingers on the show wants us to think about lightsabers. And combined with Luthen having kyber crystals and a Darth Maul dual lightsaber spaceship, it's all a lot of space wizard references. Why do that? Luthen being a former Jedi works for me but will be a little disappointingly on the nose. Maybe they just wanted to indulge some parallel construction to locate Luthen in the pantheon of good guys?

While looking for more info on this stuff I found this video from Sep 29 showing Luthen's ship with the lightsaber things extended. Is it possible to edit a Youtube video without changing the dates? Or did this fan have access to footage from later episodes somehow? I avoided all spoiler media, maybe this was a clip from a teaser released weeks ago?
posted by Nelson at 6:53 AM on November 17, 2022 [5 favorites]

While looking for more info on this stuff I found this video from Sep 29 showing Luthen's ship with the lightsaber things extended. Is it possible to edit a Youtube video without changing the dates? Or did this fan have access to footage from later episodes somehow? I avoided all spoiler media, maybe this was a clip from a teaser released weeks ago?

It was in one of the teaser trailers if I recall correctly.

Speaking of which, if you've just got into A More Civilized Age, I edited together a clip of them watching the first proper Andor trailer for the first time so you can hear how hyped they were.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 7:02 AM on November 17, 2022 [3 favorites]

Clearly I need to be watching with subtitles, because I did not follow the fisherman vs trapped Andor exchange at all, and had no idea why the fishermen released them.

Also I thought Skarsgard’s shop assistant was named “Leia” — she looks enough the part that this is plausible. Disclaimer: I am not uhh what we would call “steeped in the lore.”
posted by TangoCharlie at 8:03 AM on November 17, 2022 [5 favorites]

I pretty much always watch with subtitles nowadays because I'm eating while watching and/or the kids are asleep and I don't want to disturb them with loud TV, but yeah during that scene I definitely thought "wow I don't think I'd pick that up at all without the subs".
posted by EndsOfInvention at 8:07 AM on November 17, 2022 [3 favorites]

I really hope that, if Luthen is supposed to be a former Jedi, it's only ever hinted at. Star Wars desperately needs some "mundane" (i.e., Force-less) space adventure stories—Solo almost managed it, but then somebody decided to shoehorn in Darth Maul at the very end.
posted by The Tensor at 8:26 AM on November 17, 2022 [13 favorites]

The only confirmation is the call he has with Kleya in this ep. She asks him how things went and he says he got what he came for {Saw), then he asks about the other item he wants and she says negotiations are ongoing and that there is another buyer, and he stressed how important the other item is.

I'm not convinced that the conversation tracks that way; I'm pretty sure that Kleya and Luthen discussed the stakeout for Andor back in Episode 8 and while I don't think it's ever been made 100% clear that Luthen knows its a hit, I read this conversation differently. It's never made clear what the the successful outcome would be - it could be getting to talk to Andor again, or it could be killing him. The second buyer is clearly the Empire, which just makes it that much more important that they "get" Andor first, before he can be made to talk; Kleya's warning might just be about the fact that they are likely to get noticed/draw attention more than anything else.

This show is good at keeping some things ambiguous, especially around Luthen, and I'm actually starting to suspect they're dropping all of the Jedi hints around him in order to get us thinking that way only to pull the rug out from under us. Maybe he was just Jedi-adjacent (worked in the library?).
posted by nubs at 8:36 AM on November 17, 2022 [3 favorites]

So at the risk of being a Luthen Jedi Truther, I think now the pepper grinder we see at Saw's is the same thing as the retractable walking stick we see in episode 4. Here's some screengrabs; they sure look like the same prop.

That still leaves the question of "why is the guy acting like a Jedi Ambassador / Spy walking around in Jedi robes carrying a thing that looks like a Jedi weapon?" That is a deliberate decision from the people making the show and I am curious to see what it leads to. My money now is on him being Jedi adjacent or else reusing some Jedi tools without himself having carried a frog around in a backpack on Dagobah.
posted by Nelson at 10:25 AM on November 17, 2022 [5 favorites]

Clearly I need to be watching with subtitles, because I did not follow the fisherman vs trapped Andor exchange at all, and had no idea why the fishermen released them.

I am watching with subtitles and I still didn't quite get why the fishermen decided to help them.

That still leaves the question of "why is the guy acting like a Jedi Ambassador / Spy walking around in Jedi robes carrying a thing that looks like a Jedi weapon?" That is a deliberate decision from the people making the show and I am curious to see what it leads to. My money now is on him being Jedi adjacent or else reusing some Jedi tools without himself having carried a frog around in a backpack on Dagobah.

Back in my college days playing the Star Wars RPG, there was a character class called "Failed Jedi" and now I'm wondering if Luthen might be something like that.
posted by Fleebnork at 11:02 AM on November 17, 2022 [5 favorites]

I am watching with subtitles and I still didn't quite get why the fishermen decided to help them.

The broad stroke of it is that the empire's prisons poisoned the water, killing the fish, preventing them from tasty snacky snacks. So fuck the empire!
posted by Kyol at 11:06 AM on November 17, 2022 [18 favorites]

docking points for the incomprehensible dialog and muddy sound mix of the fisherman scene, but granting big points for the effective visual storytelling of that scene.

like others, I could not understand the audio, but releasing Andor and Melchi from the gooey net and then the engine ignition (nicely janky!) was enough for me to understand the outcome of the scene.

in my headcanon those guys are poachers or trespassers or other breakers of Imperial law. they may gross 2K credits from turning in A & M but some imperial peckerhead will probably jack them up for missing permits, so their net will likely be much less.

the thing my headcanon can't explain: the prisons poison the water, so why are the fisherbeings hanging out in direct proximity to the prison? seeems like that would be the worst place to fish...
posted by Sauce Trough at 11:21 AM on November 17, 2022 [2 favorites]

I think the dialog was deliberately hard to understand in the scene with the fisher guys (Narkinians). They're speaking in Galactic Basic but it's idiosyncratic and highly accented, like Yoda. You can see a subtitle transcript here and its things like

Prison, haye?
Escapers.
Toosie-two.
A thousand each the offer be.
One for each of us, Freedi.

The mix is a little muddy but basically comprehensible; the voice acting is hard to follow though.

The Narkinians also have their own expletive, "scob", as in "scobbin Empire". So that's some new frackin canon for you.
posted by Nelson at 11:49 AM on November 17, 2022 [8 favorites]

Isn't the Fondor just shooting two red beams? The main thing they made me think was the Luthen has a hidden weapon system which is calibrated to take out a Tie Fighter and Wingman in standard attack pattern. i.e. he has done this before.

Also, I liked that he didn't just get Saw on board with the plan, he made Saw complicit in it. Luthen made Saw make a choice, and now Saw is more committed than ever.
So he shores up his assets in the ISB and his assets in the Rebellion at the same time.

I think I would be tempted to write Luthen as deliberately playing up these Jedi like comparisons. The folks he wants on his side all liked the Jedi, and considered them both powerful and just. Certainly there is a great deal of value to be gained amongst prospective rebels by every so often wearing a flowy robe or carrying a mysterious weapon handle and a bit of khyber crystal.
Having him deliberately co-opt the mythos of the Jedi, whilst not being one, is much more interesting than him being in any way actually associated with them.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 11:49 AM on November 17, 2022 [11 favorites]

The thing I liked about the Narkinians is that the one of them was just _so_ bad, like zero effort papier-mâché art school bust. I appreciate a little jank in my Star Warses, stop polishing every last little 2 minute character into a half million dollars of render time.
posted by Kyol at 12:09 PM on November 17, 2022 [15 favorites]

Are there any other groups in Star Wars lore that use khyber crystals? Maybe he's part of the same order of Monks as Donnie Yen's character in Rogue One, who wikipedia tells me are called "Guardians of the Whills."

It's a real stretch, but I couldn't help thinking of Mandalorians during Luthen's showdown with the Imperial ships. The flechettes reminded me of Mando's mini-missiles, and just the general vibe of his ship, with all its Go-Go-Gadgets, feels very Mandalorian to me -- deadly weapons hidden all over, ready to go full-on badass at the drop of a pin.

Don't get me wrong, I think that's probably less that 1% likely, and I think it would probably be kinda dumb -- what would it add? -- but I did have the thought, and I'm sure some Disney exec pitched it to Gilroy as a way to generate content synergy within the franchise properties, or some such bullshit.
posted by Saxon Kane at 12:24 PM on November 17, 2022

I liked Kleyal's response to Vel's "what have YOU done lately" attempt at slam dunk; to the effect of: I'm not a 'lately' I'm an 'all-the-time handling a hundred chumps like you'. Another really good bit of dialogue.

Also I thought Skarsgard’s shop assistant was named “Leia” — she looks enough the part that this is plausible

She looks so much like her! I presume it's not her; a faildaughter like Vel can probably go off and do some guerilla stuff but I suspect Leia is more of the public figure kind of princess.
posted by fleacircus at 12:58 PM on November 17, 2022 [8 favorites]

Are there any other groups in Star Wars lore that use khyber crystals?

At some point they decided that the Death Star superlaser also uses kyber crystals. I believe that's still canon.
posted by The Tensor at 1:00 PM on November 17, 2022 [2 favorites]

The thing I liked about the Narkinians is that the one of them was just _so_ bad, like zero effort papier-mâché art school bust.

Do you mean the one with actual human-like face? Yeah, the thing that came to mind when they cut to him head on were the mutant guard dogs in Nightmare on Elm Street 2.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 1:19 PM on November 17, 2022 [1 favorite]

the thing my headcanon can't explain: the prisons poison the water, so why are the fisherbeings hanging out in direct proximity to the prison? seeems like that would be the worst place to fish...

It looks like the prison is still on the resort planet (am I imagining this?) where Andor first got arrested and sentenced. I don't know how long the resort existed, but it feels very plausible that the indigenous population was made unwelcome in the human tourist area long before the factory at the prison started screwing up the rest of the ecoystem.

At some point they decided that the Death Star superlaser also uses kyber crystals. I believe that's still canon.

Yep, I'm pretty sure they had the khyber crystals powering the Death Star in Rogue One (hence the pillaging of the Whills' temple), so that should still apply here. That's a less "space wizardy" explanation for Luthen's ship -- it could just be some bit of tech unknowingly stolen from the Death Star design committee.
posted by grandiloquiet at 1:40 PM on November 17, 2022

...also, I know we really don't need anybody else connected to Luke Skywalker (let him rest), but now I'm getting a little paranoid about Kleya's resemblance to Leia. I don't want this to happen, but I would like official bragging rights if it turns out Kleya is part of some Naberrie-Naboo resistance group.
posted by grandiloquiet at 1:42 PM on November 17, 2022

It looks like the prison is still on the resort planet (am I imagining this?) where Andor first got arrested and sentenced.

The prison is on Narkina 5; Andor was arrested on Niamos (aka Space Miami), and it's where he asks the Narkinans (Narkinai? Narkinaos?) to take them so he can recover his briefcase of credits and Nemik's book.

the thing my headcanon can't explain: the prisons poison the water, so why are the fisherbeings hanging out in direct proximity to the prison? seeems like that would be the worst place to fish...

Unless you are fishing for things like prison escapees ("A thousand each the offer be"), with an eye to maybe helping to further their escape.

She looks so much like her! I presume it's not her; a faildaughter like Vel can probably go off and do some guerilla stuff but I suspect Leia is more of the public figure kind of princess.

I think somebody said something to the effect that Leia is actually a Senator at this point in her life? Seems weird to me that they start that young, but there's a lot of weird things in the Star Wars universe when it comes to government (elected teenage queens!)
posted by nubs at 1:57 PM on November 17, 2022 [5 favorites]

I know we really don't need anybody else connected to Luke Skywalker

I had a really goofy idea about making Luthen an alternative future version of Anakin Skywalker who traveled back to the past to try to destroy the empire prior to completing the first Death Star. I mean, Skarsgaard kinda looks like the old guy we see in RotJ... anyway, it would be a very, very stupid idea, but it amuses me to think about it.
posted by Saxon Kane at 2:07 PM on November 17, 2022

He’s Palpatines long lost (fraternal) twin brother, back for revenge!
posted by nubs at 2:42 PM on November 17, 2022 [2 favorites]

now I'm getting a little paranoid about Kleya's resemblance to Leia.

Kleya! Kleya is my sister… 's cousin!
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 2:49 PM on November 17, 2022 [1 favorite]

He's Erik Selvig, who tried to science the shit out of the whole Kang Thang and ended up falling through a sinkhole in the multiverse.
posted by Halloween Jack at 2:51 PM on November 17, 2022 [4 favorites]

I think somebody said something to the effect that Leia is actually a Senator at this point in her life? Seems weird to me that they start that young, but there's a lot of weird things in the Star Wars universe when it comes to government (elected teenage queens!)

Andor is set in 5 years Before the Battle of Yavin (BBY5) which makes Leia around 14. She's working as an aide/intern for her father, Senator Bail Organa.
posted by nathan_teske at 3:19 PM on November 17, 2022 [7 favorites]

Having him deliberately co-opt the mythos of the Jedi, whilst not being one, is much more interesting than him being in any way actually associated with them.

It worked for Haja Estree (Kumail Nanjiani’s character in the Kenobi show); perhaps not coincidentally the only non-legacy character I can recall from that series six months on.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:23 PM on November 17, 2022 [3 favorites]

I think Luthen's told us who he is. "I'm forced to use the tools of my enemy". He uses deception, ruthless sacrifice of underlings, fear, spies, and chaos.

The Empire don't use those tools. The Sith do.

We've seen two canonical escape routes for Jedi thus far. First is a clean-break exile. No helping people, no lightsaber, just a quiet life (Yoda, Obi Wan, etc). The other path are the runners. And the fate of runners is... shorter.

If Luthen is an ex-Jedi, this is the first time we get to see a third way: revenge.
posted by Slackermagee at 1:28 AM on November 18, 2022 [8 favorites]

The moment that broke me, even thinking about it hours later:

When Brasso asks B2EMO if he wants to be left alone for a moment, and B2EMO says he doesn't want to be alone, he wants to be with Maarva. This line confused me. We know B2EMO is in some sort of senescence, does he not understand that Maarva's dead? Is our little robot buddy suicidal?

I was mulling it over hours later when I realized that it's much simpler than that. Grief is all about desperately wanting something that's impossible. We humans often respond by denying that want. We say we're ok when we're not. We say we just need a rest or a cup of tea, when what we really want is to rewrite the whole universe to make impossible things possible. In a way, it's part of the healing process. We pretend that we don't have a burning need for something that we can never have, and gradually the need becomes less burning every day.

But B2 isn't human. And one of the key things that makes him different is that he finds it very very hard to lie. So when B2 is asked what he wants, he says what he wants. He wants Maarva. Maarva is dead, but that doesn't change the wanting.
posted by firechicago at 4:43 AM on November 18, 2022 [38 favorites]

Andor is set in 5 years Before the Battle of Yavin (BBY5) which makes Leia around 14. She's working as an aide/intern for her father, Senator Bail Organa.

Rebels takes place at the same time as Andor. If anyone would like a glimpse of what Leia is up to, give it a watch.
posted by Fleebnork at 5:09 AM on November 18, 2022 [6 favorites]

Yep, I'm pretty sure they had the khyber crystals powering the Death Star in Rogue One (hence the pillaging of the Whills' temple), so that should still apply here. That's a less "space wizardy" explanation for Luthen's ship -- it could just be some bit of tech unknowingly stolen from the Death Star design committee.

You're 100% correct. Lucas intended to very clearly lay the groundwork for the Death Star using kyber crystals back in The Clone Wars. There was an unfinished episode, which you could watch the story reel (with the voice actors and everything), which showed the Empire mining and moving giant kyber crystals. After Disney purchased LFL, in the build up to Rogue One, you had Catalyst, by James Luceno, which covered Krennic and Galen Erso lives before the film and how the Empire was experimenting and figuring out how to use the kyber crystals to create the Death Star. I want to say Rebels touches on it briefly in one episode, but I can't recall for sure.

I'm more in line with the idea that Luthen was employing some kind of energy weapon like the Clone troopers used during Attack of the Clones (as someone up thread posted). It would make sense that someone in Luthen's position would look to buy scrapped war materiel from the Clone Wars to equip his ship than buy current products from weapon dealers in the present - one is far less likely to be tracked than the other by the Empire.
posted by Atreides at 7:12 AM on November 18, 2022 [2 favorites]

So when B2 is asked what he wants, he says what he wants. He wants Maarva. Maarva is dead, but that doesn't change the wanting.

What is grief if not love persevering?
posted by The Tensor at 8:57 AM on November 18, 2022 [23 favorites]

I agree that Maarva isn't dead, that it's part of a plan against the ISB. I also think that Luthen being a jedi is too obvious. I think Maarva is the jedi.

Yes, I know, I had to go that step too far...
posted by Grangousier at 2:28 PM on November 18, 2022

I can't decide if Maarva is dead or not - but either way works. One thing I wasn't sure of - does Cassian know about the funeral? He's been gone a while, and the part of the conversation we heard was not that detailed. It would be mildly hilarious if everyone went to Ferrix except Cassian Andor.

That conversation Cassian had after getting the news perfectly captured the weirdness of grieving and still having to do casual social interactions like a normal person. I did not expect to see that in a Star Wars.
posted by mersen at 3:56 PM on November 18, 2022 [7 favorites]

I wonder how often Kleya and Vel had a conversation like that. I might have read too much le Carré but I wanted Kleya to say 'no, you're the joe, I run you, not the other way around.'
posted by oldnumberseven at 7:59 PM on November 18, 2022 [2 favorites]

(I'm pretty sure that) Maarva's dead. She's been sick, and she knew she was dying. Having her fake her death to trick the ISB as cover for some bad-ass act of "terrorism" seems to me like it would go against the spirit of this show and the story/world Gilroy has been building. Making her a Jedi would be, to me, totally nonsensical, especially given what we've seen of her earlier life -- I mean, she was married, which is a big Jedi no-no (sure, it could have been after the Order 66, but still).

He uses deception, ruthless sacrifice of underlings, fear, spies, and chaos.

The Empire don't use those tools. The Sith do.

I mean, I'm pretty sure the Empire uses those tools as well. They are part of the standard-operating-procedures of every empire in history...

Kleya is my sister… 's cousin!

She's my sister! *slap* She's my cousin! *slap* She's my sister and my cousin!
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:46 AM on November 19, 2022 [8 favorites]

Oh, and I would assume Cassian knows about the funeral, or at least that the Daughters of Ferrix have a special ceremony to honor their dead members.

there's a lot of weird things in the Star Wars universe when it comes to government (elected teenage queens!)

Elected teenage queens who then become Senators after their term as queen is over! Like, huh? Y'all have weird ideas about democracy.

It's a visual metaphor for Luthen's desire for the Empire to tighten its grip so the Rebellion can grow stronger.

"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star-systems will slip through your fingers."
-Princess Leia


I think if Maarva has/had any anti-ISB activities planned for her funeral, it will have something to do with the Daughters' ceremony of mixing her ashes into a brick to then be cemented into a wall somewhere in the community. Maybe mixing in some highly-explosive something-or-other with her ashes, placing it in a strategic location so when boom-goes-the-dynamite it'll take out something of critical importance to the ISB's operations on Ferrix?
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:57 AM on November 19, 2022 [5 favorites]

> Finally getting some pew pew pew space battle

I said "This one's for the Star Wars fans!" when it started.
posted by The corpse in the library at 10:42 AM on November 19, 2022 [2 favorites]

Do we think we'll hear more about Andor's sister, or is that a dead end?
posted by The corpse in the library at 12:32 PM on November 19, 2022 [2 favorites]

Do we think we'll hear more about Andor's sister, or is that a dead end?
My theory - admittedly based on nothing other than hopes and too much media consumption - is that she's Deedra.

Look I never said it made SENSE
posted by coriolisdave at 7:58 PM on November 19, 2022 [6 favorites]

Second, it's ridiculous. A melee-range weapon on a spaceship? Something that will only be useful if your enemy flies within 1-2 spaceship lengths from you? I realize that kind of ridiculousness is par for the course for Star Wars

He tried spinning, that’s a good trick
posted by Jon Mitchell at 2:56 PM on November 20, 2022 [15 favorites]

So I just watched Rogue One, and you can definitely see how Cassian Andor gets from here to there. Mon Mothma is _way_ different looking, though. Like, you can tell they were trying to make her look more like how Caroline Blakiston looked, and not the freewheeling socialite senator she is in the series.

The CGI character inserts jumped out a lot more, 6 years later.

I wouldn't read a whole lot into Luthen's robes - both Jyn's parents were wearing pretty Jedi robe-y outfits in Rogue One. They're robes, they're both fashionable _and_ comfortable, how can you go wrong?
posted by Kyol at 4:32 PM on November 20, 2022 [1 favorite]

A More Civilized Age - Andor ep 11

As Cassian and Melshi put distance between themselves and Narkina 5, the rest of the galaxy spins just thus, aligning such that many of our principal players will wind up together on Ferrix. And those that won't, well, they're busy uh... talking about Trad Chandrillan customs, so, you know, equally as exciting.

Like many of you, we have spent the last ten episodes on the edge of our seats, eager to know what comes next. But with today's episode, written by Tony Gilory and directed by Benjamin Caron, we are a step past eager. We are desperate. Join us in desperation.

posted by EndsOfInvention at 1:07 AM on November 21, 2022 [4 favorites]

Shout outs to A More Civilized Age for being really good - I honestly look forward to it almost as much as the actual show. They do a great job of mixing humour and subjects like "is Luthen a Jedi" with serious discussion about the plot, characters, and themes of the show (fascism, rebellion, etc) and the amazing acting/visuals/cinematography. I like the way they include the audio from certain scenes that they dissect so you can appreciate the delivery again and have it fresh in your mind while you're listening to their discussion.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 1:41 AM on November 21, 2022 [5 favorites]

Ditto for Ryan Arey and Screen Crush. I am not well-versed in Star Wars lore, and those guys know EVERYTHING. Plus they are good at explaining how it all goes together. Andor hasn't needed quite as much explanation, as there isn't much from the rest of the SW universe involved, but they were very helpful for Mandalorian/Boba Fett/Obi-Wan.
posted by briank at 6:47 AM on November 21, 2022 [1 favorite]

Really appreciated AMCA providing some insight on B2EMO for me; it isn't just that they made the droid doglike, its the fact that B2 is treated as a valued being in its own right - not because it has valuable data or can translate the important information. B2 is treated like a full character who has value beyond how they can further the plot.
posted by nubs at 7:28 AM on November 21, 2022 [13 favorites]

I thought of B2EMO as more childlike than in a state of senescence. Young children often can't process the finality of death. Even when you explain slowly and clearly several times, they forget and say things like "are we going to visit Grandma this weekend?" and you have to hold yourself together and patiently explain what death means again.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 8:02 AM on November 21, 2022 [8 favorites]

I think by this point next week I might be like B2EMO with regards to this season being over. This show has brought back a lot of feelings I didn't think I would get back around Star Wars.
posted by nubs at 9:44 AM on November 21, 2022 [7 favorites]

AMCA talking about how Ferrix treats their droids differently made me think that they might be foreshadowing how and why K-2SO gets reprogrammed for Rogue One. I wouldn't be surprised if Brasso is the one who does the reprogramming.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 10:51 AM on November 21, 2022 [3 favorites]

Andor 1975, an Auralnauts spoof trailer.
posted by Nelson at 11:01 AM on November 21, 2022 [15 favorites]

That's amazing Nelson! Perfect 1970s style!
posted by TheophileEscargot at 11:22 AM on November 21, 2022 [1 favorite]

I love this show much and so help me if we wind up going to Tatooine or seeing the force ghost of Luke or something in the season finale I am going to burn everything down
posted by skycrashesdown at 1:23 PM on November 21, 2022 [4 favorites]

Nelson: Andor 1975, an Auralnauts spoof trailer.

I’m not gonna lie, I’d binge the whole season in a day if it was edited to all look like that.
posted by Kattullus at 2:07 PM on November 21, 2022 [1 favorite]

I think the finale will be an amazing pressure filled box for everyone on Ferrix and elsewhere. I have no confidence in my ability to predict anything with this show, but I do think that we're not going to happy places in episode 12. This won't be the catharsis of "One Way Out"; I think it will be "Sturm und Drang". I think it ends with Andor making his full commitment to the Rebellion, but how it gets there, and who we lose along the way, is the big question.

Do we think we'll hear more about Andor's sister, or is that a dead end?

I'm hoping we're done with his sister; in so many ways, where that storyline is at right now really sets up the relationship with Jyn in Rogue One.
posted by nubs at 2:09 PM on November 21, 2022 [2 favorites]

I think Cassian finds out that his sister, along with all the other kids from his planet, were slaughtered by the Empire years ago, and that's what seals the deal for him with joining the Rebellion.
posted by Saxon Kane at 7:05 AM on November 22, 2022 [3 favorites]

It would be so refreshing if there were just a ton of questions we don't get answers to--just like in real life. What's Luthen's background? Did Kino survive? What happened to Cassian's sister? What is Perrin's major malfunction? I hope we're just swept along in events and just never find out. Leave it for the fanfic, Gilroys!
posted by orrnyereg at 8:55 AM on November 22, 2022 [10 favorites]

Yes, exactly!
posted by EndsOfInvention at 11:26 AM on November 22, 2022

I think Cassian finds out that his sister, along with all the other kids from his planet, were slaughtered by the Empire years ago, and that's what seals the deal for him with joining the Rebellion.

I'm not so sure - the timing doesn't work super-great, at the time of his escape/kidnapping it was still the Republic era.

Agree they're probably all dead, tho
posted by coriolisdave at 4:30 PM on November 22, 2022 [1 favorite]

I'm not so sure - the timing doesn't work super-great, at the time of his escape/kidnapping it was still the Republic era.

I wouldn't mind getting better information about that whole sequence, actually.

1. There's a horrible (mining?) accident on Kenari, in which most or all of the adults are killed. The kids form their own Lord of the Flies-type community. This is prior to the Empire, so it's the Republic in charge. Ish.

2. Ship crashes, some months or years after the accident that killed the adult Kenari. Humans on the ship die immediately upon crashing, possibly from an airborne agent? (Maybe the agent caused the crash?) Crew are wearing a logo that looks suspiciously like the Separatist logo but isn't, quite. The date of this event is uncertain but seems to be just before the Clone Wars.

3. Maarva and Clem find Kassa on the ship and Maarva announces that the Republic is coming and will kill them so they kidnap Kassa and run away.

4. 15-20 years later, we hear at least one report about how everyone on Kenari is dead from an Imperial mining accident.

5. Maarva insists to Cassian that everyone on Kenari died, there's no one left.

I want to know who was in charge when the first mining accident happened, and why nobody did anything (answer: bcz the Republic sucked). And why the crew of the ship died. And what happened later.

But I do expect that there's nobody left on Kenari.
posted by suelac at 4:48 PM on November 22, 2022 [8 favorites]

According to my digging, the symbol was that of the Confederacy of Independent Systems, which from what I can glean from Wookiepedia, is essentially the Separatists. Now, the quote from the article is "the Confederacy was founded from a belief of excessive taxation and corruption within the Republic's Galactic Senate, as well as a general feeling of dissatisfaction towards and neglect by the Republic-centric Core Worlds region of the galaxy" which, you know, is hard to disagree with (although I don't feel I can speak to the tax policies of the Republic). i suspect the crash happened early in the Clone Wars, if the Republic had any military.

Anyways, this is me just filling time waiting for the next episode, but if the show feels the need to connect up all the dots about Kanari for us, maybe Luthen was part of whatever happened after Kassa left.
posted by nubs at 6:03 PM on November 22, 2022 [2 favorites]

I want to know who was in charge when the first mining accident happened, and why nobody did anything (answer: bcz the Republic sucked).

I'm skeptical of the initial accident. Did Cassian ever talk about it? It feels like the "accident" is that the Imperials panicked (after the flashback we saw of young Cassian), killed a bunch of people in the early days of the Empire (before they were sure they could get away with it), then killed everyone else to cover it up.
posted by grandiloquiet at 6:34 PM on November 22, 2022 [1 favorite]

I think Cassian finds out that his sister, along with all the other kids from his planet, were slaughtered by the Empire years ago, and that's what seals the deal for him with joining the Rebellion.

Pretty sure Cassian already knows that the other kids from his planet were likely killed by the Republic frigate (not the Empire) that was orbiting and about to land.

3. Maarva and Clem find Kassa on the ship and Maarva announces that the Republic is coming and will kill them so they kidnap Kassa and run away.

Yeah, it goes like this:

Maarva: Bee, get me the Drowser.
Clem: No, Maarva, no!
M: Shut up, Clem.
C: He's got people here!
M: Yeah, people who just killed a Republic officer. It'll be open season here the moment that frigate lands.
*Kassa screams and attacks, Maarva zaps him with the Drowser*

I get that adult Cassian is still holding onto a sliver of hope that he'll eventually see his sister again, but it seems very likely that Maarva and Clem explained to him a long time ago that the Lord of the Flies kids are probably all dead.
posted by mediareport at 6:07 PM on November 26, 2022 [1 favorite]

Part of the emotional investment is probably the sense of B2EMO's fraility - the stuttering, the obvious wear-and-tear, the near-constant need to be charging, and the strong sense of emotional reliance on humans.

I recently rewatched the flashback scene from episode 3 where young Cassian first encounters Marva, Clem, and B2EMO. I had clocked the first time that B2 looks much newer and less beat-up in that scene. What I hadn't noticed the first time is that he doesn't stutter, even once.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 8:21 PM on December 2, 2022 [5 favorites]

I love this series

but it really doesn't get the power of audio recordings.

I really think that luthen using his own, unscrambled voice to have a wee chat with the empire ship is an error. Like all the chats had in public spaces


/nitpick
posted by lalochezia at 7:45 PM on December 8, 2022 [1 favorite]

The folks he wants on his side all liked the Jedi, and considered them both powerful and just. Certainly there is a great deal of value to be gained amongst prospective rebels by every so often wearing a flowy robe or carrying a mysterious weapon handle and a bit of khyber crystal.

this makes sense, given that his Coruscant identity / the grey wig recalls a certain senator from Naboo, while he seeks to blend into the fashions of Coruscant.
posted by eustatic at 9:01 AM on December 10, 2022 [1 favorite]

I want to say Rebels touches on [big kyber crystals] briefly in one episode, but I can't recall for sure.

Yep, S1E6.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:55 AM on December 16, 2022 [2 favorites]

It would be mildly hilarious if everyone went to Ferrix except Cassian Andor.

My talk back to the screen about how "Maarva loves you and wants you to be smart and doesn't care if you're at her funeral, in fact she wouldn't even want you there" got a little heated. But it is also hilarious to think of everyone being so very sure Cassian is going to turn up but then he's off somewhere else plotting havoc and they're chasing phantoms on Ferrix.
posted by EvaDestruction at 7:24 AM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]