The Last of Us: Please Hold My Hand Show Only
February 5, 2023 7:01 PM - Season 1, Episode 4 - Subscribe
Ellie and Joel continue their travels, but run into trouble in a new city.
**SHOW ONLY THREAD**
Ellie not wanting to talk about the previous time she hurt someone reminded me of the moment in episode 2 where Tess asks how she got bitten, and then asks if Ellie went exploring the mall alone. There's the slightest hesitation before Ellie says yeah, she was alone.
She wasn't alone in that mall, is my guess.
posted by mediareport at 7:56 PM on February 5, 2023 [6 favorites]
She wasn't alone in that mall, is my guess.
posted by mediareport at 7:56 PM on February 5, 2023 [6 favorites]
Kinda tragic how quickly they lost everything they'd scavenged from Bill and Frank's place, but I guess that's a fungus apocalypse for you. Don't get too attached to stuff.
I liked this episode and especially loved the algae-bra and jean jokes. It's like the creators of this show made a checklist of everything fun and good that's been missing from zombie dramas in the past:
1. tender gay sex - check
2. goofy kid jokes - check
Can't wait to what else is on their list.
Or what's poking up from the ground in that building.
posted by mediareport at 8:02 PM on February 5, 2023 [8 favorites]
I liked this episode and especially loved the algae-bra and jean jokes. It's like the creators of this show made a checklist of everything fun and good that's been missing from zombie dramas in the past:
1. tender gay sex - check
2. goofy kid jokes - check
Can't wait to what else is on their list.
Or what's poking up from the ground in that building.
posted by mediareport at 8:02 PM on February 5, 2023 [8 favorites]
For the cross section of fans of The Expanse and The Last of US; Ty and That Guy have been reviewing The Last of Us on their podcast:
Episode 1
Episode 2
Episode 3
posted by oldnumberseven at 8:12 PM on February 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
Episode 1
Episode 2
Episode 3
posted by oldnumberseven at 8:12 PM on February 5, 2023 [2 favorites]
The world may have ended, but 14-year-olds are gonna 14-year-old, and that's a real comfort.
That's an aspect of this world that's surprising for me too. How in the world does Ellie maintain that free-spiritedness in this world? What was her childhood like under Fedra?
Was it protected enough where kids aren't required to become little adults in order to support the system they live in? Like I think of children who were coal-miners at the turn of the 20th century, or grew up hustling during the Great Depression- they weren't allowed to be kids, not fully. And I realize that those kids had as much whimsy inside them like Ellie does, but I imagine they had to suppress it more, they had to be more guarded because of their circumstances.
Or is the show saying that Ellie is just a singular kid, who has that kind of spirit despite the apocalypse?
I vaguely remember a reference to Ellie's situation being slightly more well-off, like she was in the Fedra version of a boarding school- am I misremembering?
posted by ishmael at 9:12 PM on February 5, 2023
That's an aspect of this world that's surprising for me too. How in the world does Ellie maintain that free-spiritedness in this world? What was her childhood like under Fedra?
Was it protected enough where kids aren't required to become little adults in order to support the system they live in? Like I think of children who were coal-miners at the turn of the 20th century, or grew up hustling during the Great Depression- they weren't allowed to be kids, not fully. And I realize that those kids had as much whimsy inside them like Ellie does, but I imagine they had to suppress it more, they had to be more guarded because of their circumstances.
Or is the show saying that Ellie is just a singular kid, who has that kind of spirit despite the apocalypse?
I vaguely remember a reference to Ellie's situation being slightly more well-off, like she was in the Fedra version of a boarding school- am I misremembering?
posted by ishmael at 9:12 PM on February 5, 2023
What do you all think Kathleen was thinking regarding not dealing with whatever was causing that crater in the basement? Her lieutenant seemed to think it was pretty urgent.
posted by ishmael at 9:24 PM on February 5, 2023
posted by ishmael at 9:24 PM on February 5, 2023
FYI — next week’s episode will be available early on HBO Max at Friday at 9:00 PM eastern to avoid going up against the superb owl on Sunday.
posted by nathan_teske at 9:27 PM on February 5, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by nathan_teske at 9:27 PM on February 5, 2023 [5 favorites]
I think we’re mean to conclude that Kathleen is a charismatic leader, but not an especially good one. After all, she executed a doctor - how many of those are laying around in the fungus apocalypse?
posted by Mr. Excellent at 9:27 PM on February 5, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by Mr. Excellent at 9:27 PM on February 5, 2023 [8 favorites]
Mr. Excellent: "I think we’re mean to conclude that Kathleen is a charismatic leader, but not an especially good one. After all, she executed a doctor - how many of those are laying around in the fungus apocalypse?"
It's a sick system at play. Paranoia, grudge-driven decision-making, misprioritization, catastrophizing every setback. She is in over her head, whether anyone else realizes it or not.
We haven't met Henry yet, but I suspect that he wasn't actually complicit in the events that led to Kathleen's brother being killed. Or if he was, it was because someone held a gun to his head. And now she's trying to settle a private score because she lost a loved one… in a brutal world in which everyone has lost a loved one. Joel may have killed innocent people, but I doubt he ever tried to justify it with self-righteousness.
Reading between the lines, I'm sure that Kathleen was an important figure in their revolt against FEDRA, and I wouldn't necessarily say that this is a same-as-the-old-boss situation. But they're circling the wagons over the deaths of three dudes who were scamming people out of their possessions and lives. And she is trying to flush out Henry and Sam as though it will make even a bit of difference to anything.
Maybe Kathleen was the only leader that everyone could agree on. In theory that's the best outcome if the alternative is infighting and chaos. But usually it means that the group merely inherits and manifests the leader's dysfunctions.
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:36 PM on February 5, 2023 [5 favorites]
It's a sick system at play. Paranoia, grudge-driven decision-making, misprioritization, catastrophizing every setback. She is in over her head, whether anyone else realizes it or not.
We haven't met Henry yet, but I suspect that he wasn't actually complicit in the events that led to Kathleen's brother being killed. Or if he was, it was because someone held a gun to his head. And now she's trying to settle a private score because she lost a loved one… in a brutal world in which everyone has lost a loved one. Joel may have killed innocent people, but I doubt he ever tried to justify it with self-righteousness.
Reading between the lines, I'm sure that Kathleen was an important figure in their revolt against FEDRA, and I wouldn't necessarily say that this is a same-as-the-old-boss situation. But they're circling the wagons over the deaths of three dudes who were scamming people out of their possessions and lives. And she is trying to flush out Henry and Sam as though it will make even a bit of difference to anything.
Maybe Kathleen was the only leader that everyone could agree on. In theory that's the best outcome if the alternative is infighting and chaos. But usually it means that the group merely inherits and manifests the leader's dysfunctions.
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:36 PM on February 5, 2023 [5 favorites]
We haven't met Henry yet, but I suspect that he wasn't actually complicit in the events that led to Kathleen's brother being killed. Or if he was, it was because someone held a gun to his head.
I'm guessing Henry was, and it was because someone was holding a gun to the head of his brother Sam.
posted by ishmael at 10:43 PM on February 5, 2023
I'm guessing Henry was, and it was because someone was holding a gun to the head of his brother Sam.
posted by ishmael at 10:43 PM on February 5, 2023
Didn't love this episode, maybe a natural come-down after the high of the previous episode. It just felt a little too zombie thriller trope to me. The clogged road, the ambush from rippers / war boys / militia, the weaponized cars, the charismatic but flawed leader of the hard-scrabble survivor town. We've seen this all before. I did like Kathleen though, having her be a sort of Karen-type is a good choice and the actress Melanie Lynskey is compelling.
My guess at first was that Henry didn't exist at all, that he's a bogeyman she invented in her head and has convinced her followers is an existential threat. But I think we did meet him in this episode? I assume the two folks waking up Ellie and Joel with guns in the very last scene were Henry and his brother.
posted by Nelson at 7:27 AM on February 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
My guess at first was that Henry didn't exist at all, that he's a bogeyman she invented in her head and has convinced her followers is an existential threat. But I think we did meet him in this episode? I assume the two folks waking up Ellie and Joel with guns in the very last scene were Henry and his brother.
posted by Nelson at 7:27 AM on February 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
I assume the two folks waking up Ellie and Joel with guns in the very last scene were Henry and his brother.
I thought that too as they had on the superhero eye masks from the child’s drawings that Kathleen found in the hideout.
posted by ellieBOA at 8:13 AM on February 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
I thought that too as they had on the superhero eye masks from the child’s drawings that Kathleen found in the hideout.
posted by ellieBOA at 8:13 AM on February 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
I kept thinking, surely KC has a ring road interstate or alternate route and they could skip the obvious trap situation. But I guess that wouldn't make for a thrilling story or something. At least give them a solid reason to go through the city instead of around.
posted by kokaku at 8:19 AM on February 6, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by kokaku at 8:19 AM on February 6, 2023 [8 favorites]
I kept thinking, surely KC has a ring road interstate or alternate route and they could skip the obvious trap situation. But I guess that wouldn't make for a thrilling story or something. At least give them a solid reason to go through the city instead of around.
Look, I'm not saying that American urban planning throughout the 20th Century should have considered "Okay, but what happens when this one interstate gets blocked by people fleeing a fungal zombie apocalypse", but I am saying that it absolutely did not ever consider that.
posted by Etrigan at 8:25 AM on February 6, 2023 [12 favorites]
Look, I'm not saying that American urban planning throughout the 20th Century should have considered "Okay, but what happens when this one interstate gets blocked by people fleeing a fungal zombie apocalypse", but I am saying that it absolutely did not ever consider that.
posted by Etrigan at 8:25 AM on February 6, 2023 [12 favorites]
The interstate system did consider "what if a major road gets destroyed in a war" though, there's plenty of redundant roads. Around Kansas City your big question is how you're crossing the river.
It was definitely a Plot Device that Joel chose to try to drive through. But they did sort of address it in the script, Ellie starts to trace out an alternative and Joel looks annoyed at how far out of their way it will take them. So he makes a choice.
posted by Nelson at 9:19 AM on February 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
It was definitely a Plot Device that Joel chose to try to drive through. But they did sort of address it in the script, Ellie starts to trace out an alternative and Joel looks annoyed at how far out of their way it will take them. So he makes a choice.
posted by Nelson at 9:19 AM on February 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
I felt like it was shown that they both knew driving through town was risky, and probably foolish
posted by supermedusa at 9:29 AM on February 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by supermedusa at 9:29 AM on February 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
If we're talking about that kind of plausibility versus plot device, then we might as well just say there's no reasonable route from Boston to Wyoming that goes through KC and stop there.
Not having watched the episode yet, I assume that the showrunners picked KC instead of St Louis or Chicago or Cleveland because they thought Calgary or wherever they were shooting could pass for KC better than it could anywhere on a "realistic" Boston-Wyoming route.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:41 AM on February 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Not having watched the episode yet, I assume that the showrunners picked KC instead of St Louis or Chicago or Cleveland because they thought Calgary or wherever they were shooting could pass for KC better than it could anywhere on a "realistic" Boston-Wyoming route.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:41 AM on February 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
That's basically what they said on the podcast... Pittsburgh is apparently a setting in the game but KC worked better for appearance and plot beats.
posted by kokaku at 10:57 AM on February 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by kokaku at 10:57 AM on February 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm enough of a nerd that I freeze-framed when Ellie looked at the map and talked about their route. "76 to 70" and then a lot of 70 has them camping somewhere in SW Pennsylvania before heading cross-country...
Even from Pittsburgh, Google Maps (which presumably is, ummm, down, given the apocalypse) suggests going up to I-90, across northern Ohio, up through Chicago and then west, a 26-hour trip.
But the I-70 route to Cody via Kansas City and Denver is only 28 hours, not that far out of the way. Maybe Joel wanted to avoid Cleveland and Toledo? Lots of undead there, even in the '90s when I lived there. Plus acc. to Buffy, there's also a hellmouth :)
posted by martin q blank at 11:10 AM on February 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
Even from Pittsburgh, Google Maps (which presumably is, ummm, down, given the apocalypse) suggests going up to I-90, across northern Ohio, up through Chicago and then west, a 26-hour trip.
But the I-70 route to Cody via Kansas City and Denver is only 28 hours, not that far out of the way. Maybe Joel wanted to avoid Cleveland and Toledo? Lots of undead there, even in the '90s when I lived there. Plus acc. to Buffy, there's also a hellmouth :)
posted by martin q blank at 11:10 AM on February 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
Also, map-nerding... I've never been to Kansas City but given the look of the blocked underpass and the fact that their end-run put them in the heart of downtown, I'm guessing that the sem-beltway of 435 was four to five miles behind where they were blocked. Enough that the typical man would say, eh, eff it, I'll take this shortcut and then promptly blame the woman for getting them lost. I kid.
posted by martin q blank at 11:13 AM on February 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by martin q blank at 11:13 AM on February 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
Not having watched the episode yet, I assume that the showrunners picked KC instead of St Louis or Chicago or Cleveland because they thought Calgary or wherever they were shooting could pass for KC better than it could anywhere on a "realistic" Boston-Wyoming route.
In the after show, the creators gave that exact reason, so yeah.
Otherwise, the episode was good, if a bit a chaotic and leaning too much on tropes. Bella Ramsey and Pedro Pascal continue to be just about perfect in their roles. Honestly, you could give me just about any movie or show idea and if either one was in it, I'd give it a chance. If said hypothetical movie or tv show had both?! SWOON!
But this episode had their characters subsumed to the plot. With a truck full of supplies there was zero reason to go into the city. Especially because said city was blocked. That's like people moving into the creepy looking house and staying, despite all the increasingly violent ghosts. Though in today's house market that makes more sense.
Anyway, then Joel turns smart again, by recognizing the trap, but at that point it's already a messed up situation, so they crash the truck, lose supplies, are forced to kill to survive, and then have to go on the run. I hope this is a lesson for the future aka avoid cities.
Nice acting from Pedro and Bella in him not comforting her after she kills the guy, even as its clear she needs some sort of comforting. Joel has his walls, ones he's spent decades building up, but Ellie is slowly breaking them down. Well communicated with body language.
The introduction of Kathleen, Sam, and Henry was ok. It felt odd and forced, like a cold open that doesn't work, because we get no backstory about any of them. We don't have to be told everything or even a lot, but it feels like we need something more than what we're given. But the storytellers have been good so far, so we'll just have to see where all this goes.
I'd give the episode a solid B+
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:20 AM on February 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
In the after show, the creators gave that exact reason, so yeah.
Otherwise, the episode was good, if a bit a chaotic and leaning too much on tropes. Bella Ramsey and Pedro Pascal continue to be just about perfect in their roles. Honestly, you could give me just about any movie or show idea and if either one was in it, I'd give it a chance. If said hypothetical movie or tv show had both?! SWOON!
But this episode had their characters subsumed to the plot. With a truck full of supplies there was zero reason to go into the city. Especially because said city was blocked. That's like people moving into the creepy looking house and staying, despite all the increasingly violent ghosts. Though in today's house market that makes more sense.
Anyway, then Joel turns smart again, by recognizing the trap, but at that point it's already a messed up situation, so they crash the truck, lose supplies, are forced to kill to survive, and then have to go on the run. I hope this is a lesson for the future aka avoid cities.
Nice acting from Pedro and Bella in him not comforting her after she kills the guy, even as its clear she needs some sort of comforting. Joel has his walls, ones he's spent decades building up, but Ellie is slowly breaking them down. Well communicated with body language.
The introduction of Kathleen, Sam, and Henry was ok. It felt odd and forced, like a cold open that doesn't work, because we get no backstory about any of them. We don't have to be told everything or even a lot, but it feels like we need something more than what we're given. But the storytellers have been good so far, so we'll just have to see where all this goes.
I'd give the episode a solid B+
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:20 AM on February 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
Also, shout out to the writers and Juan Magana, the actor who played Brian. His desperate pleas and begging for life were difficult to watch and hear and hit the right note in reminding it this isn't a game.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:31 AM on February 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:31 AM on February 6, 2023 [7 favorites]
I loved Ellie's teasing re: the skin mag. She was in, like, orphan military school, right? So definitely not too sheltered.
I didn't mind the "driving straight into a trap" thing, since they've done a good job showing the mix of boredom, tension, and effort involved traveling anywhere. In the second episode, they took the long, safe route -- and two of them got chomped on, anyway. I think it's plausible that people with the risk tolerance to travel in and out of the QZs would sometimes make the higher risk choice. If I were exhausted, rushed, and constantly alternating between boredom and the need to fight for my life.... I would occasionally say "fuck it" and go with the high-risk, low-effort option. (But on a Doylist level, they drove into a trap so they can lose the truck, develop their relationship, and learn about Melanie Lynskey's Whole Deal. Which is a relief! To be honest, after the "people are the real monsters" intro, I was dreading the introduction of the obligatory post-apocalyptic rape cult.)
posted by grandiloquiet at 11:34 AM on February 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
I didn't mind the "driving straight into a trap" thing, since they've done a good job showing the mix of boredom, tension, and effort involved traveling anywhere. In the second episode, they took the long, safe route -- and two of them got chomped on, anyway. I think it's plausible that people with the risk tolerance to travel in and out of the QZs would sometimes make the higher risk choice. If I were exhausted, rushed, and constantly alternating between boredom and the need to fight for my life.... I would occasionally say "fuck it" and go with the high-risk, low-effort option. (But on a Doylist level, they drove into a trap so they can lose the truck, develop their relationship, and learn about Melanie Lynskey's Whole Deal. Which is a relief! To be honest, after the "people are the real monsters" intro, I was dreading the introduction of the obligatory post-apocalyptic rape cult.)
posted by grandiloquiet at 11:34 AM on February 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
*makes notes not to ride in grandiloquiet's truck during the apocalypse*
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:50 AM on February 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:50 AM on February 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
It just felt a little too zombie thriller trope to me. The clogged road, the ambush from rippers / war boys / militia, the weaponized cars, the charismatic but flawed leader of the hard-scrabble survivor town.
I agree, it was pretty formulaic. About the only bits that felt interesting is the growing relationship between Joel & Ellie, and whatever the heck is going on in that basement. I did like the scene with the kid in the laundromat, the one that Ellie shoots - it at least felt honest and vulnerable. Also liked the fact that once Chekov's gun was out in the open, Joel makes sure she knows how to use it safely, instead of taking it away.
Joel deserves extra hazard pay for listening to those puns, however.
Some lingering questions:
-If the forest they stopped in is too remote for infected, are there any colonies/outposts established out in the wilderness? Or would the mere act of setting up some population centre there be cause for infected to start finding their way out to them?
-Why didn't Joel bother to grab a rifle or shotgun from the guys he killed in the laundromat?
-In all honesty, why doesn't someone take over from Kathleen already - she appears unstable/wrongly focused in ways that are readily apparent, and I don't see what qualities she brings that would instill great loyalty. Maybe she needed to be developed a little more.
Location notes:
-we were all over the place in southern Alberta this week. Lots of locations used as background for the drive and their stops, including around Strathmore, Carseland, Priddis, Bragg Creek, Nanton.
-As I noted last week, the High Level Bridge/Lethbridge Viaduct in Lethbridge appears while Joel & Ellie are driving
-the abandoned military equipment was filmed along Highway 40 on the Stoney Nation
-the tunnel/overpass roadblock was Calgary's Airport Trail tunnel
-Calgary's downtown stood in for Kansas City; the Globe Cinema is on 8th Ave SW (been a while since I've seen a movie there, probably longer than the movies on the marquee for this episode)
posted by nubs at 2:11 PM on February 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
I agree, it was pretty formulaic. About the only bits that felt interesting is the growing relationship between Joel & Ellie, and whatever the heck is going on in that basement. I did like the scene with the kid in the laundromat, the one that Ellie shoots - it at least felt honest and vulnerable. Also liked the fact that once Chekov's gun was out in the open, Joel makes sure she knows how to use it safely, instead of taking it away.
Joel deserves extra hazard pay for listening to those puns, however.
Some lingering questions:
-If the forest they stopped in is too remote for infected, are there any colonies/outposts established out in the wilderness? Or would the mere act of setting up some population centre there be cause for infected to start finding their way out to them?
-Why didn't Joel bother to grab a rifle or shotgun from the guys he killed in the laundromat?
-In all honesty, why doesn't someone take over from Kathleen already - she appears unstable/wrongly focused in ways that are readily apparent, and I don't see what qualities she brings that would instill great loyalty. Maybe she needed to be developed a little more.
Location notes:
-we were all over the place in southern Alberta this week. Lots of locations used as background for the drive and their stops, including around Strathmore, Carseland, Priddis, Bragg Creek, Nanton.
-As I noted last week, the High Level Bridge/Lethbridge Viaduct in Lethbridge appears while Joel & Ellie are driving
-the abandoned military equipment was filmed along Highway 40 on the Stoney Nation
-the tunnel/overpass roadblock was Calgary's Airport Trail tunnel
-Calgary's downtown stood in for Kansas City; the Globe Cinema is on 8th Ave SW (been a while since I've seen a movie there, probably longer than the movies on the marquee for this episode)
posted by nubs at 2:11 PM on February 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
The great thing for the production crew is, downtown Calgary doesn’t need much set dressing to play a boarded-up tumbleweedland.
posted by sixswitch at 2:28 PM on February 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by sixswitch at 2:28 PM on February 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
This episode did the thing that always bugs me when I see it in movies and TV shows (it was especially egregious in Yellowjackets) which is to show characters camping out in the woods at night, just casually sitting around or sleeping on the ground—no fire, no blankets—and not showing even the smallest signs of being extremely cold. Have none of these writers and producers ever spent any time actually out of doors?
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:32 PM on February 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:32 PM on February 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
and not showing even the smallest signs of being extremely cold.
I'll do you one better... Where are the bugs ?
posted by Pendragon at 3:09 PM on February 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
I'll do you one better... Where are the bugs ?
posted by Pendragon at 3:09 PM on February 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
Bella Ramsey has cute button eyes, like a line drawing of a kid from the 1950s. They use that to make it incredibly eerie when Ellie decides on violent assault, and I appreciate that.
Somebody online said that Kathleen had middle school teacher energy. I agree. I thought she was about to tell that doctor that she was disappointed in him until she got distracted and decided to shoot him instead.
posted by Countess Elena at 4:27 PM on February 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
Somebody online said that Kathleen had middle school teacher energy. I agree. I thought she was about to tell that doctor that she was disappointed in him until she got distracted and decided to shoot him instead.
posted by Countess Elena at 4:27 PM on February 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
I'll do you one better... Where are the bugs ?
OH GOOD you DO have bugs in Merrika. Seems like any show that isn't Specifcally Set In A Swamp is devoid of bitey shit, enough to convince this Australian that y'all mustn't have mozzies and shit.
posted by coriolisdave at 4:51 PM on February 6, 2023
OH GOOD you DO have bugs in Merrika. Seems like any show that isn't Specifcally Set In A Swamp is devoid of bitey shit, enough to convince this Australian that y'all mustn't have mozzies and shit.
posted by coriolisdave at 4:51 PM on February 6, 2023
I'm pretty sure Ellie said something about the woods having more bugs than she expected early on in episode 3.
posted by peppermind at 5:01 PM on February 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by peppermind at 5:01 PM on February 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
Oh we have so many mozzies in murica. I would like to call a moratorium on mozzies.
Also ticks. There are some trails in my neck o the woods where you can't bring dogs because of the ticks (amongst other reasons).
posted by ishmael at 5:02 PM on February 6, 2023
Also ticks. There are some trails in my neck o the woods where you can't bring dogs because of the ticks (amongst other reasons).
posted by ishmael at 5:02 PM on February 6, 2023
I'm pretty sure Ellie said something about the woods having more bugs than she expected early on in episode 3.
I remember that too!
posted by ishmael at 5:02 PM on February 6, 2023
I remember that too!
posted by ishmael at 5:02 PM on February 6, 2023
I also appreciate that they acknowledge the gas degradation issue.
posted by ishmael at 5:05 PM on February 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by ishmael at 5:05 PM on February 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
Credit to the show, I got all itchy and nervous when I saw that Joel and Ellie were gonna be sleeping in the woods, let alone on the ground. I was all like BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CORDYCEPS, IT CAN BE ANYWHERE?!
Haven't eaten mushrooms in weeks, just in case, you know?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:02 PM on February 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
Haven't eaten mushrooms in weeks, just in case, you know?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:02 PM on February 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
Yeah, I'm still trying to grok how the fungal "communicating over distance" thing works. Is it just certain kinds of infected who can do that? Does it not work over long distances with no other fungal bits around? Like, why didn't Ellie stabbing the fungus guy under the rubble in the gas station basement ring the fungal alarm bells? Why didn't the creepy-as-fuck mushroomhead people in the museum crawling over Joel and biting Tess do the same?
I'm trying not to get too caught up in the details that don't quite make sense, but I hope the show doesn't start piling up too many of them.
posted by mediareport at 7:19 PM on February 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm trying not to get too caught up in the details that don't quite make sense, but I hope the show doesn't start piling up too many of them.
posted by mediareport at 7:19 PM on February 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I'm still trying to grok how the fungal "communicating over distance" thing works.
I could be wrong, but I think the long distance fungal alarm was set off when a tiny tendril on the ground wrapped around the finger of the infected Joel had just killed. Both Joel and Tess clocked this and that got them scrambling.
I think the tiny tendrils are the fingertips of the fungal networks, and you need one o those to tetch you to set off a fungal alarm.
In the case of the clickers, they were off-network, free roaming. They weren't near a tiny tendril tip or vibing on the ground with the rest of the mall-infected, and so dint set off the alarm.
In the case of the basement guy, it seemed like that particular Cumberland Farms was pretty remote, and so probably not connected to an active network.
posted by ishmael at 11:36 PM on February 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
I could be wrong, but I think the long distance fungal alarm was set off when a tiny tendril on the ground wrapped around the finger of the infected Joel had just killed. Both Joel and Tess clocked this and that got them scrambling.
I think the tiny tendrils are the fingertips of the fungal networks, and you need one o those to tetch you to set off a fungal alarm.
In the case of the clickers, they were off-network, free roaming. They weren't near a tiny tendril tip or vibing on the ground with the rest of the mall-infected, and so dint set off the alarm.
In the case of the basement guy, it seemed like that particular Cumberland Farms was pretty remote, and so probably not connected to an active network.
posted by ishmael at 11:36 PM on February 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
I'm pretty sure Ellie said something about the woods having more bugs than she expected early on in episode 3.
Ah, must have missed that.
posted by Pendragon at 12:15 AM on February 7, 2023
Ah, must have missed that.
posted by Pendragon at 12:15 AM on February 7, 2023
They also made a point of showing, when they entered the museum that the fungus there was dry and "dead" before they went in, so it would not as easily communicate I assume.
posted by Iteki at 1:50 AM on February 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Iteki at 1:50 AM on February 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
Some of my thoughts, after reading the above:
- Trying to Monday-morning-quarterback their route has to take into account not only the blocking-off of certain routes due to traffic jams of people trying to flee fungus zombies (in particular, tunnels would be major choke points; Stephen King's The Stand goes into this a lot, and even on the surface roads, a number of survivors take to motorcycles to go around stopped/stalled cars), but also that a lot of America's decaying infrastructure had no work done on it for twenty years. The I-74 bridge that crosses the Mississippi at the Quad Cities in Illinois and Iowa wouldn't have been replaced and might be gone by this point. Also, too, even though Joel can find gas that's still usable, there's probably going to be less and less of that the further west they go.
- Even if Kathleen isn't meet-the-new-boss-same-as-the-old-boss, there's the simple matter that a rebel leader isn't always suited to be an administrator. Star Trek: Deep Space Nine did a good job with this idea. And it seems likely to me that part of her paranoia and going on the warpath for, as savetheclocktower points out, some muggers who got what was coming to them, is that on some level she knows that she's not really suited for this. Killing the doctor is a very bad sign. If it hadn't been Joel and Ellie cutting through town, it likely would have been something else--someone hoarding food or ammo, maybe, or whatever is up with those kids.
- Speaking of Kathleen not being up for the long-term job, and how there doesn't seem to be any fungus in this episode, my guess is that that's what the mysterious crater in the basement of that building is about, and that part of her focusing on stamping out the counter-rebellion or whatever that business is about is that she's guessing that the fungus has invaded their little corner of KC--possibly through the sewers--and that they might have to move, which would be problematic if there are other gangs/rebel groups in town who won't tolerate their turf being encroached upon. I guess we'll see on Friday!
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:32 AM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
- Trying to Monday-morning-quarterback their route has to take into account not only the blocking-off of certain routes due to traffic jams of people trying to flee fungus zombies (in particular, tunnels would be major choke points; Stephen King's The Stand goes into this a lot, and even on the surface roads, a number of survivors take to motorcycles to go around stopped/stalled cars), but also that a lot of America's decaying infrastructure had no work done on it for twenty years. The I-74 bridge that crosses the Mississippi at the Quad Cities in Illinois and Iowa wouldn't have been replaced and might be gone by this point. Also, too, even though Joel can find gas that's still usable, there's probably going to be less and less of that the further west they go.
- Even if Kathleen isn't meet-the-new-boss-same-as-the-old-boss, there's the simple matter that a rebel leader isn't always suited to be an administrator. Star Trek: Deep Space Nine did a good job with this idea. And it seems likely to me that part of her paranoia and going on the warpath for, as savetheclocktower points out, some muggers who got what was coming to them, is that on some level she knows that she's not really suited for this. Killing the doctor is a very bad sign. If it hadn't been Joel and Ellie cutting through town, it likely would have been something else--someone hoarding food or ammo, maybe, or whatever is up with those kids.
- Speaking of Kathleen not being up for the long-term job, and how there doesn't seem to be any fungus in this episode, my guess is that that's what the mysterious crater in the basement of that building is about, and that part of her focusing on stamping out the counter-rebellion or whatever that business is about is that she's guessing that the fungus has invaded their little corner of KC--possibly through the sewers--and that they might have to move, which would be problematic if there are other gangs/rebel groups in town who won't tolerate their turf being encroached upon. I guess we'll see on Friday!
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:32 AM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Taking a moving vehicle with a cargo bay full of supplies through a blocked off city in a dystopian hellscape just doesn't sound like a good idea. I get that Joel was probably taking a knowing risk, but when you have the possible cure to that dystopian hellscape riding shotgun and reading you ridiculous puns, taking less risk would seem to be the best course of action.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:50 AM on February 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:50 AM on February 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
grandiloquiet's reasoning above works for me as to why Joel made such a bad decision.
They were pointing out gas issues too- I wonder if there was a scene indicating that Joel was worried about fuel and it got cut out for time or pacing. That definitely would give him more of a reason to gamble with his extremely valuable passenger and supplies.
posted by ishmael at 8:44 AM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
They were pointing out gas issues too- I wonder if there was a scene indicating that Joel was worried about fuel and it got cut out for time or pacing. That definitely would give him more of a reason to gamble with his extremely valuable passenger and supplies.
posted by ishmael at 8:44 AM on February 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
To me, a lot of understanding Joel's reasoning comes down to the fact that he didn't really sleep the night before. After Ellie asks him if he's sure no one will find them, she goes to sleep and Joel is shown standing staring out into the forest with his gun. He's hoping to push through that day in order to get somewhere where the cargo is safe and not his sole responsibility; doing the diversion would probably mean at least one more night on the road before reaching Wyoming. Add in the sleep deprivation, the supply situation, and I can understand it - even if it is a dumb decision, when the smarter one is to go around and work a watch plan with Ellie to allow them both to get some sleep.
posted by nubs at 9:09 AM on February 7, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by nubs at 9:09 AM on February 7, 2023 [12 favorites]
How in the world does Ellie maintain that free-spiritedness in this world? What was her childhood like under Fedra? Was it protected enough where kids aren't required to become little adults in order to support the system they live in?
I dunno, I think we're seeing enough hints of darkness in Ellie to balance out her seeming light-heartedness - or even explain it as a kind of protective mechanism to help her deal with the shitty world she was born into. She does have some moments of innocence, like when Joel answers her question about humans seeing a fire in the woods, "So what are they gonna do, rob us?" with "Oh they'll have way more in mind than that." She raises her eyebrows, sure, but then quickly gets it, and the idea of rape and torture doesn't seem to give her too much pause. Maybe because she doesn't really know how awful humans can be? But maybe because she does?
Same with the opening scene, when she's playing "pew pew" with the bullet and gun by herself. Is she totally unaware of the seriousness of using a weapon? Or is she imagining situations she's been in where having a gun would have been very handy?
50/50 at this point, I'd say. She's pretty quick to shoot Bryan in the back, though she seems kind of on autopilot as she does it. But as soon as Joel tells her to get back behind the wall, she pauses only very briefly before turning her back on the sobbing Bryan, knowing full well what Joel's about to do.
She's not a totally free-spirited and happy-go-lucky kid, is all I'm saying. We know she's seen at least some shit up close since she was bitten, but at this point we don't know much about her past at all.
posted by mediareport at 2:45 PM on February 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
I dunno, I think we're seeing enough hints of darkness in Ellie to balance out her seeming light-heartedness - or even explain it as a kind of protective mechanism to help her deal with the shitty world she was born into. She does have some moments of innocence, like when Joel answers her question about humans seeing a fire in the woods, "So what are they gonna do, rob us?" with "Oh they'll have way more in mind than that." She raises her eyebrows, sure, but then quickly gets it, and the idea of rape and torture doesn't seem to give her too much pause. Maybe because she doesn't really know how awful humans can be? But maybe because she does?
Same with the opening scene, when she's playing "pew pew" with the bullet and gun by herself. Is she totally unaware of the seriousness of using a weapon? Or is she imagining situations she's been in where having a gun would have been very handy?
50/50 at this point, I'd say. She's pretty quick to shoot Bryan in the back, though she seems kind of on autopilot as she does it. But as soon as Joel tells her to get back behind the wall, she pauses only very briefly before turning her back on the sobbing Bryan, knowing full well what Joel's about to do.
She's not a totally free-spirited and happy-go-lucky kid, is all I'm saying. We know she's seen at least some shit up close since she was bitten, but at this point we don't know much about her past at all.
posted by mediareport at 2:45 PM on February 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
Regarding long distance communication, I assumed that happened via a mycelium that was linking them all together. There’s a link in the first paragraph of that page to Armillaria, a fungus with a myelium that spans 3.4 square miles.
posted by antinomia at 4:22 PM on February 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by antinomia at 4:22 PM on February 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
To me the confusing part is which of the various kinds of infected have the mycelium link thing. Right now it just seems to be "whichever is most convenient to the plot at any moment" but maybe they'll make it more clear.
posted by mediareport at 10:23 AM on February 8, 2023
posted by mediareport at 10:23 AM on February 8, 2023
They were pointing out gas issues too- I wonder if there was a scene indicating that Joel was worried about fuel and it got cut out for time or pacing.
They did - during the fuel-syphoning scene where Ellie asks why they have do do this every hour, and Joel notes that gas isn't nearly as fresh as it used to be. Driving through a city may be riskier, but gives many more refueling options. Ironically, if they backtracked to a place where there wasn't heaped up traffic, they might not have the fuel sources to keep driving at all.
posted by FatherDagon at 8:30 AM on February 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
They did - during the fuel-syphoning scene where Ellie asks why they have do do this every hour, and Joel notes that gas isn't nearly as fresh as it used to be. Driving through a city may be riskier, but gives many more refueling options. Ironically, if they backtracked to a place where there wasn't heaped up traffic, they might not have the fuel sources to keep driving at all.
posted by FatherDagon at 8:30 AM on February 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
Another reminder that this week's episode will premiere on Friday, February 10th at 9pm EST to avoid conflicting with the United States' superbowl.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:10 AM on February 10, 2023
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:10 AM on February 10, 2023
Another reminder that this week's episode will premiere on Friday, February 10th at 9pm EST to avoid conflicting with the United States' superbowl.
It would be one heck of a case of athlete's foot otherwise
posted by nubs at 9:11 AM on February 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
It would be one heck of a case of athlete's foot otherwise
posted by nubs at 9:11 AM on February 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm glad a post-apocalypse narrative finally nodded towards the fact that gasoline does not in fact have an indefinite shelf life, but 20-year-old gas wouldn't even be combustable. They shouldn't be driving at all.
posted by rhymedirective at 12:11 PM on February 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by rhymedirective at 12:11 PM on February 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
Another reminder that this week's episode will premiere on Friday, February 10th at 9pm EST to avoid conflicting with the United States' superbowl.
Kansas City Cordyceps vs Everyone
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 1:49 PM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Kansas City Cordyceps vs Everyone
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 1:49 PM on February 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm glad a post-apocalypse narrative finally nodded towards the fact that gasoline does not in fact have an indefinite shelf life, but 20-year-old gas wouldn't even be combustable. They shouldn't be driving at all.
Yeah, I kind of wonder if diesel would hold out any better, or if it would just gel into something useless, too? I mean, someone mechanically apt enough could probably convert a diesel engine to burn any ol' bio-oil they could get their hands on, but I assume vegetable oil would be basically shellac after 20 years of oxidation, too. But that would be more useful in the cities, maybe?
posted by Kyol at 7:07 PM on February 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I kind of wonder if diesel would hold out any better, or if it would just gel into something useless, too? I mean, someone mechanically apt enough could probably convert a diesel engine to burn any ol' bio-oil they could get their hands on, but I assume vegetable oil would be basically shellac after 20 years of oxidation, too. But that would be more useful in the cities, maybe?
posted by Kyol at 7:07 PM on February 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
Along the lines of gas, how would 20-yo tires not disintegrate? And when are they going to discover the joy of bicycles?
posted by Dashy at 9:31 AM on February 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Dashy at 9:31 AM on February 13, 2023 [2 favorites]
Was it protected enough where kids aren't required to become little adults in order to support the system they live in?
I think, to a certain extent, yes. She notes that she went to school (albeit a military-school for orphans) before getting scooped up by the Fireflies. So, while I'm sure childhood in the post-apocalypse isn't as safe and relatively free of worry as it is in our world, it sounds like the society in the QZs is at least attempting to provide something resembling the old world: sending children to school to learn some basic history and social studies (complete with government-approved propaganda) and whatever skills they'll eventually need to become contributing adults. At the very least, they learn how to read and write, so literacy is still seen as important. And, presumably, there is still some sort of entertainment industry to keep the masses somewhat happy, even if it's just publishing books of terrible puns (sure, the book could be a relic from the past, but it didn't necessarily look like something that's 20+ years old).
It could also be that FEDRA wants to control the type of education children receive. Sending kids to school means they are given the official, FEDRA-approved version of events from an authority figure, rather than whatever stories and rumours they pick up from their parents and other people who were alive in the before times (I mean, they'll hear those either way, but at least this way the oppressive government has some influence and control over the hearts and minds of the next generation).
We don't have a ton of world-building yet, but it seems reasonable to assume most kids leave school in their early-to-mid-teens to start working, and only those from elite, FEDRA families get to continue schooling to become doctors, teachers and FEDRA leadership candidates.
posted by asnider at 1:10 PM on February 13, 2023
I think, to a certain extent, yes. She notes that she went to school (albeit a military-school for orphans) before getting scooped up by the Fireflies. So, while I'm sure childhood in the post-apocalypse isn't as safe and relatively free of worry as it is in our world, it sounds like the society in the QZs is at least attempting to provide something resembling the old world: sending children to school to learn some basic history and social studies (complete with government-approved propaganda) and whatever skills they'll eventually need to become contributing adults. At the very least, they learn how to read and write, so literacy is still seen as important. And, presumably, there is still some sort of entertainment industry to keep the masses somewhat happy, even if it's just publishing books of terrible puns (sure, the book could be a relic from the past, but it didn't necessarily look like something that's 20+ years old).
It could also be that FEDRA wants to control the type of education children receive. Sending kids to school means they are given the official, FEDRA-approved version of events from an authority figure, rather than whatever stories and rumours they pick up from their parents and other people who were alive in the before times (I mean, they'll hear those either way, but at least this way the oppressive government has some influence and control over the hearts and minds of the next generation).
We don't have a ton of world-building yet, but it seems reasonable to assume most kids leave school in their early-to-mid-teens to start working, and only those from elite, FEDRA families get to continue schooling to become doctors, teachers and FEDRA leadership candidates.
posted by asnider at 1:10 PM on February 13, 2023
I kept thinking, surely KC has a ring road interstate or alternate route and they could skip the obvious trap situation.
It definitely does. Taking 70 through the middle is capital D dumb, as the thread has suggested. But as is quickly noted, he has a crap, novice navigator. Though it would have been funnier if they had run into a traffic jam in Grandview triangle, from a plot standpoint there's only the one downtown boxed by highways, and the rest is suburban sprawl. No real cluster of high rises built up anywhere else.
Around Kansas City your big question is how you're crossing the river.
Just stay south and the Kansas river isn't an issue. The river does a pretty crappy job of dividing the city.
posted by pwnguin at 12:13 AM on September 6, 2023
It definitely does. Taking 70 through the middle is capital D dumb, as the thread has suggested. But as is quickly noted, he has a crap, novice navigator. Though it would have been funnier if they had run into a traffic jam in Grandview triangle, from a plot standpoint there's only the one downtown boxed by highways, and the rest is suburban sprawl. No real cluster of high rises built up anywhere else.
Around Kansas City your big question is how you're crossing the river.
Just stay south and the Kansas river isn't an issue. The river does a pretty crappy job of dividing the city.
posted by pwnguin at 12:13 AM on September 6, 2023
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posted by minervous at 7:50 PM on February 5, 2023 [5 favorites]