Star Trek: Strange New Worlds: Subspace Rhapsody
August 3, 2023 4:01 AM - Season 2, Episode 9 - Subscribe
In Berman's days, a glimpse of singing was looked on as something cringing. Now, [more insiiiiiiide]
Be watchful of Fandom in its velvet prime:
• The Klingon captain, Garkog, was played by Bruce Horak (Hemmer).
• Heisenberg compensators were established in TNG as a critical component of transporter systems.
• The commander Kirk mentioned who no one ever questioned could refer to Captain Garrovick, who (according to TOS: "Obsession") died two years prior to the events of this episode.
• The U.S.S. Nimerfro could be named in honor of Scott Nimerfro [Wikipedia link].
"I would prefer not to be a bunny, either."
- M'Benga
"The last thing anyone wants is singing Klingons."
- Una
Poster's Log:
That "Previously On" really made it seem like what we were about to get was the "Naked SNW" I've been dreading. I guess in a sense, this kind of IS that, but really a far far better handling of the "crew loses inhibitions" hook than we've had before (…sssso many times).
Memory Alpha calls this "the first licensed Star Trek production to be a musical," which makes me (A) wonder what the first UNlicensed one was—there's gotta be at least one—and (B) half-seriously ask why DS9: "His Way" doesn't count.
I haven't seen very much '60s TV outside of TOS, so I've never quite known what to make of the frequent songs in it—e.g. "Beyond Antares," "Maiden Wine," and "Oh, On the Starship Enterprise" (which I half-expected would get its OWN origin story in this episode). Was that just a '60s thing? a Roddenberry thing? the actors' request?
Anyway…I did very much enjoy the more retro renditions of the TOS and SNW themes. And it's not like I lack all affection for musical theater. But I don't tend to enjoy musical episodes of things, and I think that's just because the types of songs they tend to employ aren't to my taste. But I do see why SNW made this choice: this cast is just bursting with talent. And I try not to begrudge a Trek outing when it's clearly about letting the cast have fun. So, silly Trek—but not nearly the silliest.
Poster's Log, Supplemental:
"Quantum probability field" sounds an awful lot like the Infinite Improbability Drive from Hitchhiker's; perhaps that was deliberate.
Jim Kirk having another pretext for spending an episode on the Enterprise is almost making me think they're gonna kill him off or do something else shocking and timeline-endangering.
Be watchful of Fandom in its velvet prime:
• The Klingon captain, Garkog, was played by Bruce Horak (Hemmer).
• Heisenberg compensators were established in TNG as a critical component of transporter systems.
• The commander Kirk mentioned who no one ever questioned could refer to Captain Garrovick, who (according to TOS: "Obsession") died two years prior to the events of this episode.
• The U.S.S. Nimerfro could be named in honor of Scott Nimerfro [Wikipedia link].
"I would prefer not to be a bunny, either."
- M'Benga
"The last thing anyone wants is singing Klingons."
- Una
Poster's Log:
That "Previously On" really made it seem like what we were about to get was the "Naked SNW" I've been dreading. I guess in a sense, this kind of IS that, but really a far far better handling of the "crew loses inhibitions" hook than we've had before (…sssso many times).
Memory Alpha calls this "the first licensed Star Trek production to be a musical," which makes me (A) wonder what the first UNlicensed one was—there's gotta be at least one—and (B) half-seriously ask why DS9: "His Way" doesn't count.
I haven't seen very much '60s TV outside of TOS, so I've never quite known what to make of the frequent songs in it—e.g. "Beyond Antares," "Maiden Wine," and "Oh, On the Starship Enterprise" (which I half-expected would get its OWN origin story in this episode). Was that just a '60s thing? a Roddenberry thing? the actors' request?
Anyway…I did very much enjoy the more retro renditions of the TOS and SNW themes. And it's not like I lack all affection for musical theater. But I don't tend to enjoy musical episodes of things, and I think that's just because the types of songs they tend to employ aren't to my taste. But I do see why SNW made this choice: this cast is just bursting with talent. And I try not to begrudge a Trek outing when it's clearly about letting the cast have fun. So, silly Trek—but not nearly the silliest.
Poster's Log, Supplemental:
"Quantum probability field" sounds an awful lot like the Infinite Improbability Drive from Hitchhiker's; perhaps that was deliberate.
Jim Kirk having another pretext for spending an episode on the Enterprise is almost making me think they're gonna kill him off or do something else shocking and timeline-endangering.
Trekadoon!
I found that delightful from start to finish. I was almost disappointed I didn't get metal Klingons, and then I discovered I needed autotuned Klingons in my life and all was forgiven.
posted by threecheesetrees at 6:17 AM on August 3, 2023 [7 favorites]
I found that delightful from start to finish. I was almost disappointed I didn't get metal Klingons, and then I discovered I needed autotuned Klingons in my life and all was forgiven.
posted by threecheesetrees at 6:17 AM on August 3, 2023 [7 favorites]
The music and book of this was waaaay better than it needed to be! I got so many neck shivers. I appreciated the judicious (and then hilarious) use of autotune.
posted by sixswitch at 7:02 AM on August 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by sixswitch at 7:02 AM on August 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
Ethan Peck has a surprisingly good voice. I occasionally think how any given SNW scene would play out with the 1960s cast performing it back then and, well...
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:14 AM on August 3, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:14 AM on August 3, 2023 [5 favorites]
I am 8 minutes in and the singing just started. I can't believe I'm laughing so hard -- they are going for it, aren't they?
I'd like to think that the producers had to commit to a musical episode to get Carol Kane on the show.
posted by Catblack at 9:28 AM on August 3, 2023 [6 favorites]
I'd like to think that the producers had to commit to a musical episode to get Carol Kane on the show.
posted by Catblack at 9:28 AM on August 3, 2023 [6 favorites]
wonder what the first UNlicensed one was—there's gotta be at least one
I suspect that's "Khan!!! The Musical!"
posted by hanov3r at 11:27 AM on August 3, 2023 [7 favorites]
I suspect that's "Khan!!! The Musical!"
posted by hanov3r at 11:27 AM on August 3, 2023 [7 favorites]
La'an's solo power ballad was not only well performed, but developed her character beyond her self-imposed limits (colouring outside the lines so to speak) *and* then served a critical plot juncture in revealing the involuntary confessional nature of the musical outbreaks... and the amazing part to me was I'd still consider this more an Uhura episode as the instigator and closer of the episode. We were churning through the drama this week and it still managed to hang together within the framework of the episode's conceit - masterful work on the ensemble's part.
Other than having a theory and bunnies, were there other obvious Buffy callbacks?
posted by Molesome at 12:10 PM on August 3, 2023 [11 favorites]
Other than having a theory and bunnies, were there other obvious Buffy callbacks?
posted by Molesome at 12:10 PM on August 3, 2023 [11 favorites]
Drunk / hungover Spock teetering onto the bridge and falling into his chair in the last scene was the cherry on top of a well-constructed sundae.
posted by uncleozzy at 12:39 PM on August 3, 2023 [20 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 12:39 PM on August 3, 2023 [20 favorites]
When I get my next job, I hope my friends throw me an impromptu star-trek-themed dance number, too!
posted by Mr. Excellent at 12:42 PM on August 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Mr. Excellent at 12:42 PM on August 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
Other than having a theory and bunnies, were there other obvious Buffy callbacks?
Perhaps not obvious, but in both Once more with feelings and here, the singing forces the characters to tell the truth about themselves. They save the day by singing all together but the ending is bittersweet because now their problems are all in the open.
posted by elgilito at 2:30 PM on August 3, 2023 [7 favorites]
Perhaps not obvious, but in both Once more with feelings and here, the singing forces the characters to tell the truth about themselves. They save the day by singing all together but the ending is bittersweet because now their problems are all in the open.
posted by elgilito at 2:30 PM on August 3, 2023 [7 favorites]
I definitely think there are music nods to Once More with Feeling in there as well. I'd have to watch again to say exactly where, but there were definitely musical notes and phrases that were homages to the Buffy musical.
I am super critical of musical episodes of things because I love the form of the stage musical so much and I was pleased that at least most of this cast had good voices (the Buffy musical suffers from most of the cast not being singers) and the songs were decent to pretty good. That said, because they were all I Want (or confessional) songs, I didn't get a full musical feeling. There were very few reprises and not enough duets.
On the other hand, this told a pretty solid Trek story with the space phenomena and trying to figure out what is happening and solving things with science. If Buffy was a dancing demon, of course the source of Trekno-singing was a subspace tear.
As this show does so well, it progressed ongoing character arcs beautifully. La'an singing about Kirk from another universe was very moving. And I guess I understand why a lot of the ongoing stories of the seasons have been about personal relationships, because a musical is a good place to pull that stuff apart and put it into the open.
I think I'm happier they dealt with Chapel and Spock breaking up in song than in whispered tortured personal drama - although they have handled their relationship pretty well over the four episodes they have been together.
I probably could have done without the Klingon boy band, but the rousing finale was excellent both as a performance and thematically. Communication is the key, people. That's a great story to tell.
posted by crossoverman at 4:23 PM on August 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
I am super critical of musical episodes of things because I love the form of the stage musical so much and I was pleased that at least most of this cast had good voices (the Buffy musical suffers from most of the cast not being singers) and the songs were decent to pretty good. That said, because they were all I Want (or confessional) songs, I didn't get a full musical feeling. There were very few reprises and not enough duets.
On the other hand, this told a pretty solid Trek story with the space phenomena and trying to figure out what is happening and solving things with science. If Buffy was a dancing demon, of course the source of Trekno-singing was a subspace tear.
As this show does so well, it progressed ongoing character arcs beautifully. La'an singing about Kirk from another universe was very moving. And I guess I understand why a lot of the ongoing stories of the seasons have been about personal relationships, because a musical is a good place to pull that stuff apart and put it into the open.
I think I'm happier they dealt with Chapel and Spock breaking up in song than in whispered tortured personal drama - although they have handled their relationship pretty well over the four episodes they have been together.
I probably could have done without the Klingon boy band, but the rousing finale was excellent both as a performance and thematically. Communication is the key, people. That's a great story to tell.
posted by crossoverman at 4:23 PM on August 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
I thought I was ready for this.
I was very much not ready for this.
posted by Faintdreams at 4:31 PM on August 3, 2023 [7 favorites]
I was very much not ready for this.
posted by Faintdreams at 4:31 PM on August 3, 2023 [7 favorites]
Oh man, this was so much fun.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 5:48 PM on August 3, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by mrjohnmuller at 5:48 PM on August 3, 2023 [8 favorites]
I loved every second of this. The songs aren't terribly singable/catchy, but they work, have good musical and thematic thru-lines, and are completely diegetic. The back-to-back scenes of Chapel & Spock and La'An & Kirk would have been too much in a straight dramatic presentation, but they play off each other so well here. I just wanted to cry for Spock, and I did cry when Kirk told La'An about Carol Marcus. I wish this had been the season finale.
Batel is totally going to die next week, isn't she?
posted by briank at 6:31 PM on August 3, 2023 [3 favorites]
Batel is totally going to die next week, isn't she?
posted by briank at 6:31 PM on August 3, 2023 [3 favorites]
THAT. WAS. AWESOME.
As a mad fan of this show, and of musicals, and of musical episodes done well, I couldn’t be any happier. Uhura’s big song gave me absolute chills, and there were autotuned Klingons, and Buffy homages, and Improbability fields, and a couple of awkward romances were mostly dispensed with. Everything is LOVELY.
Kirk and La’an I didn’t mind at all, but also wasn’t particularly feeling it. I like that it was dealt with in a grown-up way that leaned into existing Kirk canon while still being kind to all involved - and at the same time I’m glad we can move on from that, because while they have been cutely uncomfortable together, I’m not really on board with a ton of romance in my Star Trek.
Spock and Christine - that ended in an unexpected way that made me very happy, because it went all in on Christine’s agency in the same way that TOS kind of took it away from her in Amok Time. I like that it works perfectly with that episode while completely reframing it. And I adore Christine’s chaotic energy, I’m glad it ended because she’s fully owning her own choices even if they’re completely different from the choices she made, say, yesterday.
If anything could be said to bug me in this episode, it’s the weird framing of WHY Christine broke up with Spock. I mean - three months is a nothing separation, yikes. She could have followed her dreams and been back in Spock’s tawdry embrace within the space of a summer, so it just doesn’t quite fly. It’s pretty clearly an excuse, so I kind of wish they’d hung a lantern on the fact that she’s using it as an excuse.
Still. That is a tiny nothing quibble, even less than three months worth of a quibble, because the rest of the episode made me wildly happy and now I am going to go watch it AGAIN.
posted by invincible summer at 6:49 PM on August 3, 2023 [8 favorites]
As a mad fan of this show, and of musicals, and of musical episodes done well, I couldn’t be any happier. Uhura’s big song gave me absolute chills, and there were autotuned Klingons, and Buffy homages, and Improbability fields, and a couple of awkward romances were mostly dispensed with. Everything is LOVELY.
Kirk and La’an I didn’t mind at all, but also wasn’t particularly feeling it. I like that it was dealt with in a grown-up way that leaned into existing Kirk canon while still being kind to all involved - and at the same time I’m glad we can move on from that, because while they have been cutely uncomfortable together, I’m not really on board with a ton of romance in my Star Trek.
Spock and Christine - that ended in an unexpected way that made me very happy, because it went all in on Christine’s agency in the same way that TOS kind of took it away from her in Amok Time. I like that it works perfectly with that episode while completely reframing it. And I adore Christine’s chaotic energy, I’m glad it ended because she’s fully owning her own choices even if they’re completely different from the choices she made, say, yesterday.
If anything could be said to bug me in this episode, it’s the weird framing of WHY Christine broke up with Spock. I mean - three months is a nothing separation, yikes. She could have followed her dreams and been back in Spock’s tawdry embrace within the space of a summer, so it just doesn’t quite fly. It’s pretty clearly an excuse, so I kind of wish they’d hung a lantern on the fact that she’s using it as an excuse.
Still. That is a tiny nothing quibble, even less than three months worth of a quibble, because the rest of the episode made me wildly happy and now I am going to go watch it AGAIN.
posted by invincible summer at 6:49 PM on August 3, 2023 [8 favorites]
As a generally uninterested party when it comes to musicals / musical episodes, this was fun.
But Batel getting called away on a priority one mission ahead of the season finale, it uhh... it bodes well, huh?
posted by dumbland at 6:51 PM on August 3, 2023 [6 favorites]
But Batel getting called away on a priority one mission ahead of the season finale, it uhh... it bodes well, huh?
posted by dumbland at 6:51 PM on August 3, 2023 [6 favorites]
100% not coming back from that priority one mission. That’s our finale setup.
posted by The Monster at the End of this Thread at 6:52 PM on August 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by The Monster at the End of this Thread at 6:52 PM on August 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
I thought Kirk didn't know about David, and that Carol sprung that surprise on him when they were working together on the Genesis project--unless we're supposed to believe that Carol isn't pregnant with David and that comes later and/or there is a miscarriage/aborted pregnancy (or stories told leading Kirk to believe in something like that). Then again, I could be misremembering how that happened in the TOS timeline.
I'll be the lone voice of dissent. I didn't think this was that good, but then again, I wasn't really expecting it to be.
Beyond some very Buffy callbacks (beyond the bunnies, there were songs that had melodies/deliveries that reminded me strong of the music in Buffy), I thought the lyrics to a lot of the songs were very plodding with technobabble. Yes, it's Trek and yes it's sci-fi but if they're supposed to be singing about the emotional states, then that's what I wanted to hear about, not how the systems were responding or the cons were operating.
Along with some Buffy melodies, there were an awful lot of instances when I found myself humming along to the music because it was familiar from other songs--lines and passages that seem lifted from pop tunes. I was trying to name them as the cropped up, but I'm terrible at putting names to songs, even I know them inside and out from a musical perspective.
The singing itself was generally, mostly only okay. I wasn't too wowed by most of the performances, but I'm not going to knock a bunch of actors who never signed up to be part of a song-and-dance act.
Once again we got more flipping camera tricks, which I'm not loving in general in this show. And that was paired with the sudden gravity-free duet with Una and La'an which felt like it was subbing in for the missing big romantic number that is typically found in musicals and which this didn't have. Uhra's big number in engineering was probably the best performance (and the engineering backdrop made for a lovely stage).
There wasn't any point where I got swept up by this and taken along for the ride, which is usually what I'm hoping for a good musical--or a good musical episode of a non-musical TV series. This one felt like it was just going through the motions. Nothing seemed to penetrate my heart.
posted by sardonyx at 6:59 PM on August 3, 2023 [7 favorites]
I'll be the lone voice of dissent. I didn't think this was that good, but then again, I wasn't really expecting it to be.
Beyond some very Buffy callbacks (beyond the bunnies, there were songs that had melodies/deliveries that reminded me strong of the music in Buffy), I thought the lyrics to a lot of the songs were very plodding with technobabble. Yes, it's Trek and yes it's sci-fi but if they're supposed to be singing about the emotional states, then that's what I wanted to hear about, not how the systems were responding or the cons were operating.
Along with some Buffy melodies, there were an awful lot of instances when I found myself humming along to the music because it was familiar from other songs--lines and passages that seem lifted from pop tunes. I was trying to name them as the cropped up, but I'm terrible at putting names to songs, even I know them inside and out from a musical perspective.
The singing itself was generally, mostly only okay. I wasn't too wowed by most of the performances, but I'm not going to knock a bunch of actors who never signed up to be part of a song-and-dance act.
Once again we got more flipping camera tricks, which I'm not loving in general in this show. And that was paired with the sudden gravity-free duet with Una and La'an which felt like it was subbing in for the missing big romantic number that is typically found in musicals and which this didn't have. Uhra's big number in engineering was probably the best performance (and the engineering backdrop made for a lovely stage).
There wasn't any point where I got swept up by this and taken along for the ride, which is usually what I'm hoping for a good musical--or a good musical episode of a non-musical TV series. This one felt like it was just going through the motions. Nothing seemed to penetrate my heart.
posted by sardonyx at 6:59 PM on August 3, 2023 [7 favorites]
I thought Kirk didn't know about David, and that Carol sprung that surprise on him when they were working together on the Genesis project
Same here. In fact I explained just this to my wife, who never saw the movies.
posted by billsaysthis at 8:01 PM on August 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
Same here. In fact I explained just this to my wife, who never saw the movies.
posted by billsaysthis at 8:01 PM on August 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
Regarding David, without watching TWOK again, I would gather that he is a surprise—that’s David?!—at being a young man already rather than Kirk not knowing about him.
posted by channaher at 8:05 PM on August 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by channaher at 8:05 PM on August 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
From Memory Alpha: "David displayed the same eagerness for action as his father when he attacked the admiral with a knife, presuming that Kirk's intent was to take Genesis. Carol intervened, and it was after seeing her that Kirk guessed David was his son. David got a chance to see his father in a more positive light when Kirk battled it out with Khan.
posted by sardonyx at 8:15 PM on August 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by sardonyx at 8:15 PM on August 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
Kirk to Carol: "Why didn't you tell me?...My life that could have been but wasn't."
The M-A description could be taken either way (didn't know/didn't recognize). This clip cements it for me. Carol didn't tell him about David.
posted by sardonyx at 8:22 PM on August 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
The M-A description could be taken either way (didn't know/didn't recognize). This clip cements it for me. Carol didn't tell him about David.
posted by sardonyx at 8:22 PM on August 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
Well, that really was something.
My SO asked me what the hell I was watching at least three separate times.
posted by wierdo at 8:55 PM on August 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
My SO asked me what the hell I was watching at least three separate times.
posted by wierdo at 8:55 PM on August 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
Regarding David, without watching TWOK again, I would gather that he is a surprise—that’s David?!—at being a young man already rather than Kirk not knowing about him.
I believe Kirk has a line to Carol Marcus about how “I stayed away like you asked me to,” or words to that effect. She definitely says something about “you had your world and I had mine, and I didn’t want him growing up in yours.”
I’ve always thought the implication was that Kirk knew David existed* but by mutual agreement with Carol he was staying away.
*Let’s face it: with Kirk’s... proclivities, by the time of Picard, pretty much the whole Alpha Quadrant is like fourth cousins.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:07 PM on August 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
I believe Kirk has a line to Carol Marcus about how “I stayed away like you asked me to,” or words to that effect. She definitely says something about “you had your world and I had mine, and I didn’t want him growing up in yours.”
I’ve always thought the implication was that Kirk knew David existed* but by mutual agreement with Carol he was staying away.
*Let’s face it: with Kirk’s... proclivities, by the time of Picard, pretty much the whole Alpha Quadrant is like fourth cousins.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:07 PM on August 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
The Chase but the proto-humanoid is just Jim Kirk on a bender.
posted by dumbland at 9:16 PM on August 3, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by dumbland at 9:16 PM on August 3, 2023 [4 favorites]
Another voice of dissent, this fell flat to me. I was on board with the concept but they didn't commit fully to the energy needed and a lot of the numbers came off as boring. (Exception: Nurse Chapel's solo about her opportunities). Hate to say this but the music felt very Rent to me, and not in a good way. Shame there was no way to bring Stamets on board for the episode! They did a game job of it but it felt a bit too much like a summer camp talent show and not enough like an energetic musical production. Either it needed to hit sincere better or it needed to be campier. Harumpf.
What was interesting to me was how they put every single character's emotional development into the story. Pike and his girlfriend. La'an and Kirk. Uhura's odd but compelling number about feeling all alone. Number One about connecting with the crew. Spock/Chapel. Even Ortegas had her moment about being a pilot. All that was missing was M'Benga singing about his energy cloud / transporter pattern daughter. (Or maybe his black ops background, that would have been badass.) This episode felt a little slow and long to me, too, but I think it's because they wanted to be sure to include everyone.
Vaguely related, a very young Brent Spiner was an excellent part of the Sondheim musical Sunday in the Park with George and gave a really great performance opposite Bernadette Peters (!) and Mandy Potemkin (!!).
posted by Nelson at 10:12 PM on August 3, 2023 [6 favorites]
What was interesting to me was how they put every single character's emotional development into the story. Pike and his girlfriend. La'an and Kirk. Uhura's odd but compelling number about feeling all alone. Number One about connecting with the crew. Spock/Chapel. Even Ortegas had her moment about being a pilot. All that was missing was M'Benga singing about his energy cloud / transporter pattern daughter. (Or maybe his black ops background, that would have been badass.) This episode felt a little slow and long to me, too, but I think it's because they wanted to be sure to include everyone.
Vaguely related, a very young Brent Spiner was an excellent part of the Sondheim musical Sunday in the Park with George and gave a really great performance opposite Bernadette Peters (!) and Mandy Potemkin (!!).
posted by Nelson at 10:12 PM on August 3, 2023 [6 favorites]
Ethan Peck has a surprisingly good voice.
Spock Rock
posted by ActingTheGoat at 10:14 PM on August 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
Spock Rock
posted by ActingTheGoat at 10:14 PM on August 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
I thought what was mainly missing was choreography. Too many numbers of standing still and singing (La’an’s was most egregiously lacking). But overall well done.
posted by LooseFilter at 10:31 PM on August 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by LooseFilter at 10:31 PM on August 3, 2023 [2 favorites]
Shortly before that WoK clip, Kirk asks "Is that David?" (i.e. Kirk knew about him, and knew his name). And the quote at the beginning of the clip is "why didn't you tell him?"
Jean-Luc is the captain who was unaware he even had a son until that son was an adult. The continuity here seems perfectly acceptable. (I'm more than halfway expecting that Carol will be definitively confirmed next season as "the little blonde lab technician" Gary Mitchell mentions in "Where No Man Has Gone Before", who Kirk "almost married".)
On the subject of continuity, my favorite understated aspect of this show is the stardates. It actually started with the first two seasons of Discovery, which had stardates mostly in the low 1000s, but not in order and jumping as high as (per MA) 2137. SNW, set some time later, has stardates mostly in the high 1000s to low 2000s, but goes as low as 1224 and as high as 3177. In both cases, there's a clear chronology to the episodes that is equally clearly unrelated to the stardates.
The stardates in TOS were largely meaningless window dressing, with handwaves from Roddenberry and others such as "Stardates are a mathematical formula which varies depending on location in the galaxy, velocity of travel, and other factors, can vary widely from episode to episode". (Despite bouncing around semi-randomly, stardates do generally trend upward through the seasons of TOS, which is not something I ever realized when I was watching them in syndication back in the day.)
And the producers of these shows clearly get that basic meaninglessness. It would have been easy to say that stardates were a brand-new thing in universe and give the episodes a clear progression of (say) three-digit stardates that would plausibly lead to "Where No Man Has Gone Before" having stardate 1312. (The non-linear stardates within TOS could simply be ignored, given that there's not much to be done about them at this point.) But they resisted the urge to systematize and rationalize, and instead they embraced the fact that stardates don't really matter, they're just flavor.
To me, this shows an affection for Trek with all its flaws, as well as an implicit acknowledgement that inconsistency in a long-running franchise is inevitable. And yet they've gone to noticeable effort to make the broad strokes of things make sense: here's a patch for why the Eugenics Wars haven't happened yet, here's an acknowledgment that Carol Marcus would have to be in Kirk's life about now.
So what if the cabins are bigger than my two-bedroom apartment, and Pike's hair brushes against the ceiling, and the question of just what Klingons look like is muddier than ever? None of those are the essence of why the audience keeps coming back to Star Trek. I, at least, am here for the combination soap opera and social commentary, not airtight future history or coherent technobabble. (Although per the mention of "The Chase" above, it would be kind of nice if Trek could manage a plausible story involving evolution, just one time.)
posted by Covert Kaiju at 10:42 PM on August 3, 2023 [6 favorites]
Jean-Luc is the captain who was unaware he even had a son until that son was an adult. The continuity here seems perfectly acceptable. (I'm more than halfway expecting that Carol will be definitively confirmed next season as "the little blonde lab technician" Gary Mitchell mentions in "Where No Man Has Gone Before", who Kirk "almost married".)
On the subject of continuity, my favorite understated aspect of this show is the stardates. It actually started with the first two seasons of Discovery, which had stardates mostly in the low 1000s, but not in order and jumping as high as (per MA) 2137. SNW, set some time later, has stardates mostly in the high 1000s to low 2000s, but goes as low as 1224 and as high as 3177. In both cases, there's a clear chronology to the episodes that is equally clearly unrelated to the stardates.
The stardates in TOS were largely meaningless window dressing, with handwaves from Roddenberry and others such as "Stardates are a mathematical formula which varies depending on location in the galaxy, velocity of travel, and other factors, can vary widely from episode to episode". (Despite bouncing around semi-randomly, stardates do generally trend upward through the seasons of TOS, which is not something I ever realized when I was watching them in syndication back in the day.)
And the producers of these shows clearly get that basic meaninglessness. It would have been easy to say that stardates were a brand-new thing in universe and give the episodes a clear progression of (say) three-digit stardates that would plausibly lead to "Where No Man Has Gone Before" having stardate 1312. (The non-linear stardates within TOS could simply be ignored, given that there's not much to be done about them at this point.) But they resisted the urge to systematize and rationalize, and instead they embraced the fact that stardates don't really matter, they're just flavor.
To me, this shows an affection for Trek with all its flaws, as well as an implicit acknowledgement that inconsistency in a long-running franchise is inevitable. And yet they've gone to noticeable effort to make the broad strokes of things make sense: here's a patch for why the Eugenics Wars haven't happened yet, here's an acknowledgment that Carol Marcus would have to be in Kirk's life about now.
So what if the cabins are bigger than my two-bedroom apartment, and Pike's hair brushes against the ceiling, and the question of just what Klingons look like is muddier than ever? None of those are the essence of why the audience keeps coming back to Star Trek. I, at least, am here for the combination soap opera and social commentary, not airtight future history or coherent technobabble. (Although per the mention of "The Chase" above, it would be kind of nice if Trek could manage a plausible story involving evolution, just one time.)
posted by Covert Kaiju at 10:42 PM on August 3, 2023 [6 favorites]
The music and lyrics were by Letters to Cleo folks: Kay Hanley (Josie and the Pussycats) and Tom Polce (Crazy Ex-Girlfriend).
The repeated references to the "improbability field" made me think of the Infinite Improbability Drive in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
posted by Pronoiac at 12:20 AM on August 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
The repeated references to the "improbability field" made me think of the Infinite Improbability Drive in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
posted by Pronoiac at 12:20 AM on August 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
So the character played by a British actor is emotionally repressed? Where do they get their ideas?
posted by biffa at 1:36 AM on August 4, 2023
posted by biffa at 1:36 AM on August 4, 2023
That "you had your world, I had mine" dialogue is part of the clip I posted, in case anybody is interested.
posted by sardonyx at 7:52 AM on August 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by sardonyx at 7:52 AM on August 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
Babs's delivery of "... and I Do. Not. Sing." was delightful.
Spock's song "I'm the X" and the choral version of the opening theme are my favorite musical bits.
I don't actually know how common the self-awareness of the absurdity of singing is in other musical episodes but it worked for me.
posted by hanov3r at 8:41 AM on August 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
Spock's song "I'm the X" and the choral version of the opening theme are my favorite musical bits.
I don't actually know how common the self-awareness of the absurdity of singing is in other musical episodes but it worked for me.
posted by hanov3r at 8:41 AM on August 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
The self-awareness is a pretty standard trope of the special TV episode musical, and has been since Buffy (which pretty much kicked off the modern special TV episode trend).
posted by sardonyx at 8:59 AM on August 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by sardonyx at 8:59 AM on August 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
What's the secret that Number One sings about? Everybody knows about the genetic engineering now, but she still sings about having to keep a secret. Is it just a generic "I have to hide how much I care about the crew", or is it a more specific "I have to hide how I feel about this particular member of the crew"?
posted by Mogur at 9:10 AM on August 4, 2023
posted by Mogur at 9:10 AM on August 4, 2023
For example, here are Kara and Barry realizing what's happening to them in the Flash's musical episode (goes until about 9:10, fast forward through the "vocal coach reacting" portion, it irrelevant).
posted by sardonyx at 9:14 AM on August 4, 2023
posted by sardonyx at 9:14 AM on August 4, 2023
I took Number One's secret to be the genetic modification stuff. Now that's out in the open, she's free to be herself and to form more and deeper connections with her crew.
posted by sardonyx at 9:16 AM on August 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by sardonyx at 9:16 AM on August 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
So what if the cabins are bigger than my two-bedroom apartment
It was the sizes of those apartments that was the real reason for the Bell Riots.
posted by biffa at 9:38 AM on August 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
It was the sizes of those apartments that was the real reason for the Bell Riots.
posted by biffa at 9:38 AM on August 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
The self-awareness is a pretty standard trope of the special TV episode musical, and has been since Buffy (which pretty much kicked off the modern special TV episode trend).
Buffy gets all the credit but it was far from the kickoff—Moonlighting beat it by decades and Xena by years. There were other shows that did musical episodes before Buffy, but in terms of influence for modern TV, that Xena episode ruled. And there was definitely some self-awareness in them as well. /my sad forever rant about Xena not getting enough credit for the things it did.
posted by kitten kaboodle at 9:58 AM on August 4, 2023 [6 favorites]
Buffy gets all the credit but it was far from the kickoff—Moonlighting beat it by decades and Xena by years. There were other shows that did musical episodes before Buffy, but in terms of influence for modern TV, that Xena episode ruled. And there was definitely some self-awareness in them as well. /my sad forever rant about Xena not getting enough credit for the things it did.
posted by kitten kaboodle at 9:58 AM on August 4, 2023 [6 favorites]
Watching this, I had to note how dispiriting it must be for most of the crew to realize that all these spontaneous songs were going on to highlight the profound emotional inner lives of the leads... and the rest of the crew are just backup dancers. That's gotta be a hit to the self-esteem.
I suspect that's "Khan!!! The Musical!"
When Uhura mentioned earworms I shouted 'Khaaaaaan!' as a reflex
posted by FatherDagon at 10:32 AM on August 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
I suspect that's "Khan!!! The Musical!"
When Uhura mentioned earworms I shouted 'Khaaaaaan!' as a reflex
posted by FatherDagon at 10:32 AM on August 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
speaking of musical talent, Christina Chong (La’an) has a single out.
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:08 AM on August 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:08 AM on August 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
How ‘Star Trek: Strange New Worlds’ Brought Its Delightful Musical Episode to Life. A short interview with the showrunners. They worked so hard on this now I feel like a jerk for saying it fell a little flat for me.
What I was really curious about was whether all the cast members were actually singing. It sounds like mostly or entirely yes? Apparently many of the actors are known for their singing talents already. This Polygon piece suggests maybe Babs Olusanmokun had a little autotune help but there's no shame in that.
posted by Nelson at 11:17 AM on August 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
What I was really curious about was whether all the cast members were actually singing. It sounds like mostly or entirely yes? Apparently many of the actors are known for their singing talents already. This Polygon piece suggests maybe Babs Olusanmokun had a little autotune help but there's no shame in that.
posted by Nelson at 11:17 AM on August 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
kitten kaboodle,
You're right about both of those shows. Moonlighting was a bit further back in time, so it's harder to make a direct link. Xena was pretty much under the radar in terms of mainstream awareness--much more so than Buffy, which itself wasn't really talked about much. Buffy really benefited from media attention: reading coverage of the musical episode in the daily newspaper convinced me to watch the show, even though I had never seen an episode of the series.
posted by sardonyx at 11:19 AM on August 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
You're right about both of those shows. Moonlighting was a bit further back in time, so it's harder to make a direct link. Xena was pretty much under the radar in terms of mainstream awareness--much more so than Buffy, which itself wasn't really talked about much. Buffy really benefited from media attention: reading coverage of the musical episode in the daily newspaper convinced me to watch the show, even though I had never seen an episode of the series.
posted by sardonyx at 11:19 AM on August 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
Uhura was easily the best singer. Which is gòod continuity as she is one of the few characters we hear sing in TOS also.
posted by biffa at 11:37 AM on August 4, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by biffa at 11:37 AM on August 4, 2023 [6 favorites]
There was a lot of pitch correction, but I think that it fits with the whole "space anomaly causes musical" premise of the episode. I took it to be diegetic pitch correction, because the space anomaly would have to be doing some pitch correcting.
posted by surlyben at 2:41 PM on August 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by surlyben at 2:41 PM on August 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
I enjoyed this. But I have to say, musical episodes were more fun before autotune was invented. Part of the joy of them was seeing who could knock it out of the park, who was clearly not super comfortable but game, and who completely could not rise to the occasion, at all. It was never quite who you expected! But now everyone sounds, like, at least decent, but I at least can't always tell if it's because they're unexpectedly good or because they got a little algorithmic help. It makes the musical episode a lot less of a journey of discovery. But probably much less humiliating for those in the cast who haven't got a Grammy win and a Tony nomination under their belt...
That said - I truly never complain about a musical episode and there were some amazing performances in this one. I watched this one back to back with the previous Kissinger episode and it was equal parts "whoa, WHAT, is this an entirely different show???" and necessary palate cleanser. Like, damn, what are they throwing at us next. From the Lower Decks crossover episode, to some light war crimes and a possible cover-up for a murder committed by the ship's doctor, to a musical episode?
I do feel like what the shorter streaming seasons do is crowd out the meat and potatoes, planet of the week Trek that provides a backdrop for the zanier content. There are a LOT of hijinks proportionally compared to an old-style 24-episode season that might have one or two zany episodes a season. I get that if you only have a handful of shows to make, you want to make the ones that people remember, but they have to cram so much into those because they don't have the more sedate episodes to throw character beats and development into.
posted by potrzebie at 3:18 PM on August 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
That said - I truly never complain about a musical episode and there were some amazing performances in this one. I watched this one back to back with the previous Kissinger episode and it was equal parts "whoa, WHAT, is this an entirely different show???" and necessary palate cleanser. Like, damn, what are they throwing at us next. From the Lower Decks crossover episode, to some light war crimes and a possible cover-up for a murder committed by the ship's doctor, to a musical episode?
I do feel like what the shorter streaming seasons do is crowd out the meat and potatoes, planet of the week Trek that provides a backdrop for the zanier content. There are a LOT of hijinks proportionally compared to an old-style 24-episode season that might have one or two zany episodes a season. I get that if you only have a handful of shows to make, you want to make the ones that people remember, but they have to cram so much into those because they don't have the more sedate episodes to throw character beats and development into.
posted by potrzebie at 3:18 PM on August 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
I thought it was okay, but had hoped it'd be better. But I think my tolerance for Very Special Musical Episodes is basically "it'd better be great, or I'll get bored", which isn't everyone's standard.
I do think, and thought early on in the episode, that musical episodes work best later in a show's evolution, when it's a real delight to have long-standing characters we know very well face the emotional shake-up of their innermost thoughts revealed in song.
I am very happy that SNW is the kind of show that would attempt it, and do reasonably well at that, because basically this show has he competency that (most) other recent Trek has lacked and it's something I love about it. Possibly because I've become a little bitter in my disappointment.
The one moment when I did feel that wonder and rush of a good musical was the beginning of Uhura's number.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 3:47 PM on August 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
I do think, and thought early on in the episode, that musical episodes work best later in a show's evolution, when it's a real delight to have long-standing characters we know very well face the emotional shake-up of their innermost thoughts revealed in song.
I am very happy that SNW is the kind of show that would attempt it, and do reasonably well at that, because basically this show has he competency that (most) other recent Trek has lacked and it's something I love about it. Possibly because I've become a little bitter in my disappointment.
The one moment when I did feel that wonder and rush of a good musical was the beginning of Uhura's number.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 3:47 PM on August 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
But I have to say, musical episodes were more fun before autotune was invented
When was that? Sarah Michelle Gellar's sounds very auto-tuned (to my untrained ear) in "Once More, with Feeling".
posted by The Tensor at 4:37 PM on August 4, 2023
When was that? Sarah Michelle Gellar's sounds very auto-tuned (to my untrained ear) in "Once More, with Feeling".
posted by The Tensor at 4:37 PM on August 4, 2023
When was that?
Surprisingly (to me) Auto-Tune has been out for 25 years. The first release was in 1997 whereas that Buffy ep. aired in 2001, so it's certainly conceivable that she had a little tlc applied.
Uhura was easily the best singer.
Celia Rose Gooding did win a Grammy due to their principal role in the Jagged Little Pill musical, so it's to be expected.
posted by xigxag at 7:35 PM on August 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
Surprisingly (to me) Auto-Tune has been out for 25 years. The first release was in 1997 whereas that Buffy ep. aired in 2001, so it's certainly conceivable that she had a little tlc applied.
Uhura was easily the best singer.
Celia Rose Gooding did win a Grammy due to their principal role in the Jagged Little Pill musical, so it's to be expected.
posted by xigxag at 7:35 PM on August 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
I was really excited for this and fucking hell that was painful. Just so, so hard to watch.
posted by Navelgazer at 10:25 PM on August 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Navelgazer at 10:25 PM on August 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
"The last thing anyone wants is singing Klingons."
- Una
Previously.
posted by fairmettle at 10:25 PM on August 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
- Una
Previously.
posted by fairmettle at 10:25 PM on August 4, 2023 [2 favorites]
I do feel like what the shorter streaming seasons do is crowd out the meat and potatoes, planet of the week Trek that provides a backdrop for the zanier content.
I've been wondering about this too, like there either has to be some all-encompasing universal threat to existence arc, or every episode needs to stand alone with a gimmick - all killer no filler.
I wonder if it's because you don't need to hit a syndication cap to guarantee reruns - your episodes are available until Netflix/Max/Disney retires them once availability costs/residuals outweigh repeat audiences. Just a theory. It could be bunnies.
posted by Molesome at 5:37 AM on August 5, 2023
I've been wondering about this too, like there either has to be some all-encompasing universal threat to existence arc, or every episode needs to stand alone with a gimmick - all killer no filler.
I wonder if it's because you don't need to hit a syndication cap to guarantee reruns - your episodes are available until Netflix/Max/Disney retires them once availability costs/residuals outweigh repeat audiences. Just a theory. It could be bunnies.
posted by Molesome at 5:37 AM on August 5, 2023
I liked this a lot. I was initially pretty wary, as the vocal arrangement of the theme song, whose orchestral bombast I always appreciate, was a lot thinner than I expected — but I think they were holding back to give the finale's layered, narratively- and improbabilistically-resonant harmonies their full impact.
And that finale was as assured a thesis statement on Trek's optimism as I've ever seen. Whizbang technology and aspirational (if flawed) ideals in hand, the Federation, Starfleet, and friends go into space to try very hard to Do The Thing at great personal peril, ultimately revealing compelling new ways to see the universe and connect to others. It's far from Trek's only mode — or Strange New Worlds', for that matter — but it's definitely a big one, and the SNW team seemed to have a lot of fun expressing it.
The Klingon number didn't do much for me beyond the inventive starship choreography, but it was nice to see Bruce Horak again.
posted by lumensimus at 12:35 PM on August 5, 2023
And that finale was as assured a thesis statement on Trek's optimism as I've ever seen. Whizbang technology and aspirational (if flawed) ideals in hand, the Federation, Starfleet, and friends go into space to try very hard to Do The Thing at great personal peril, ultimately revealing compelling new ways to see the universe and connect to others. It's far from Trek's only mode — or Strange New Worlds', for that matter — but it's definitely a big one, and the SNW team seemed to have a lot of fun expressing it.
The Klingon number didn't do much for me beyond the inventive starship choreography, but it was nice to see Bruce Horak again.
posted by lumensimus at 12:35 PM on August 5, 2023
there's also the klingon who would seranade you at your table in the restaurant on ds9
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 1:02 PM on August 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by the antecedent of that pronoun at 1:02 PM on August 5, 2023 [3 favorites]
And I will say that of the contemporary Trek that has really swung with the fences vis-a-vis fanservice — let's say Picard S3 and the finale in particular, SNW's Lower Decks crossover, and this episode — this landed pretty well for me.
I found much of Picard S3 deeply exhausting and occasionally upsetting in ways that weirdly echoed some of the critical response to S1 (a season I was mostly on board for, especially early on — Sad Picard is totally fine in my book, and the associated beta canon from the era only heightened my appreciation for what they were going for), but SNW
just feels solid to me in a way that Discovery and especially Picard haven't always nailed.
It's really lovely to get close to the end of a season of new Trek and not feel that inevitable, frantic buildup to an undercontextualized giant shooty space battle, nor a gathering storm of desperate, recapitulative fanservice. (Every time I think about the rebuilt Enterprise-D bridge, I feel so tired. I know there's an essay there.)
Strange New Worlds heads out into space and tries very hard to Do The Thing, but it's got a surprisingly light touch in my mind for whatever reason, and that counts for a lot in my book.
posted by lumensimus at 1:04 PM on August 5, 2023 [8 favorites]
I found much of Picard S3 deeply exhausting and occasionally upsetting in ways that weirdly echoed some of the critical response to S1 (a season I was mostly on board for, especially early on — Sad Picard is totally fine in my book, and the associated beta canon from the era only heightened my appreciation for what they were going for), but SNW
just feels solid to me in a way that Discovery and especially Picard haven't always nailed.
It's really lovely to get close to the end of a season of new Trek and not feel that inevitable, frantic buildup to an undercontextualized giant shooty space battle, nor a gathering storm of desperate, recapitulative fanservice. (Every time I think about the rebuilt Enterprise-D bridge, I feel so tired. I know there's an essay there.)
Strange New Worlds heads out into space and tries very hard to Do The Thing, but it's got a surprisingly light touch in my mind for whatever reason, and that counts for a lot in my book.
posted by lumensimus at 1:04 PM on August 5, 2023 [8 favorites]
Also autotuned Klingons. That’s it, that’s the whole sentence
Not canon but it’s not like we haven’t heard K-Pop before.
posted by nathan_teske at 8:02 PM on August 5, 2023
Not canon but it’s not like we haven’t heard K-Pop before.
posted by nathan_teske at 8:02 PM on August 5, 2023
I was very pleased that Mrs. Fedora is sufficiently Offline that she had absolutely no idea what was coming, and the premise caught her completely by surprise
My partner also was able to enjoy the delight of this surprise. No such luck for me though, due to the spoiler in last week's Fanfare discussion.
posted by fairmettle at 8:15 PM on August 5, 2023
My partner also was able to enjoy the delight of this surprise. No such luck for me though, due to the spoiler in last week's Fanfare discussion.
posted by fairmettle at 8:15 PM on August 5, 2023
I really enjoyed this episode musically, but I also appreciated that it has actual plot and character development beyond just the gimmick. Having Chapel dump Spock in such a public setting makes TOS-Chapel's pining over him slightly less grating for me. I can reframe it as "still in love with your ex, with a dollop of shame over how things ended" vs. the ick factor of her forcing unwanted attention on a categorically disinterested party.
It was lovely to see Celia Rose Gooding getting an opportunity to shine, and the moment of joy for M'benga was a balm after last week.
The soundtrack is definitely going into regular rotation over here!
posted by Ann Telope at 10:19 PM on August 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
It was lovely to see Celia Rose Gooding getting an opportunity to shine, and the moment of joy for M'benga was a balm after last week.
The soundtrack is definitely going into regular rotation over here!
posted by Ann Telope at 10:19 PM on August 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
I do think, and thought early on in the episode, that musical episodes work best later in a show's evolution, when it's a real delight to have long-standing characters we know very well face the emotional shake-up of their innermost thoughts revealed in song.
That was my first thought, too. Actually it was my second. My first was: "A musical episode? Ugh." My second was "If they really want to do this, shouldn't this be a season five thing?" I like my Trek a bit less silly than this, and while I didn't hate it, I don't really need to watch it again or add the soundtrack to my playlists. Happy to just move on to the next episode.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 10:56 PM on August 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
That was my first thought, too. Actually it was my second. My first was: "A musical episode? Ugh." My second was "If they really want to do this, shouldn't this be a season five thing?" I like my Trek a bit less silly than this, and while I didn't hate it, I don't really need to watch it again or add the soundtrack to my playlists. Happy to just move on to the next episode.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 10:56 PM on August 5, 2023 [1 favorite]
shouldn't this be a season five thing?
Another season is never a certainty, especially now. We’ve seen streamers throw away successful shows and movies for all kinds of penny-pinching reasons. I say, use those good ideas now while they can.
posted by Servo5678 at 1:35 AM on August 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
Another season is never a certainty, especially now. We’ve seen streamers throw away successful shows and movies for all kinds of penny-pinching reasons. I say, use those good ideas now while they can.
posted by Servo5678 at 1:35 AM on August 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
So what if the cabins are bigger than my two-bedroom apartment
It’s been observed before that the single biggest advancement in Trek is not warp drive or transporters but management. How do you motivate people to sign up for a years-long mission where they have a decent chance of being disintegrated/turned into a lizard/thrown into the Cenozoic/transformed into a dodecahedron of styrofoam, and for no pay? A decent living space is kind of the least Starfleet can do.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:40 AM on August 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
It’s been observed before that the single biggest advancement in Trek is not warp drive or transporters but management. How do you motivate people to sign up for a years-long mission where they have a decent chance of being disintegrated/turned into a lizard/thrown into the Cenozoic/transformed into a dodecahedron of styrofoam, and for no pay? A decent living space is kind of the least Starfleet can do.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:40 AM on August 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
My idea for the "giant crews quarters" is in two parts:
1) the crew at this time is only about 200 (at the time of TOS, it will be 430, so we need to start packin' 'em in)) and
2) I headcanon that lessons learned in the Klingon War (and after) led to a radical redesign of several ship systems (ie shields and phaser banks), with the unfortunate side-effect that they got a lot bigger and more power-hungry (ie they might have had to give up a bunch of the crew quarters to make room for the new phasers)
posted by Mogur at 4:56 AM on August 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
1) the crew at this time is only about 200 (at the time of TOS, it will be 430, so we need to start packin' 'em in)) and
2) I headcanon that lessons learned in the Klingon War (and after) led to a radical redesign of several ship systems (ie shields and phaser banks), with the unfortunate side-effect that they got a lot bigger and more power-hungry (ie they might have had to give up a bunch of the crew quarters to make room for the new phasers)
posted by Mogur at 4:56 AM on August 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
Also we learned from that one unfortunate episode of Discovery that the interior of starships is impossibly larger than the exterior. So there's some Tardis like stuff going on and cabins can be as big as you want.
posted by Nelson at 5:26 AM on August 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Nelson at 5:26 AM on August 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
I thought it was okay, but had hoped it'd be better. But I think my tolerance for Very Special Musical Episodes is basically "it'd better be great, or I'll get bored", which isn't everyone's standard.
I’m with you on this. I was over it by the third song.
The Klingons were fantastic, though.
posted by Fleebnork at 6:08 AM on August 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
I’m with you on this. I was over it by the third song.
The Klingons were fantastic, though.
posted by Fleebnork at 6:08 AM on August 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
Random thoughts -
* The audacity! When they first started singing, I couldn't help it - it completely cracked me up
* La'an and Spock have surprisingly good singing voices, and the emotional beats for them in this episode were surprisingly well suited to musical theater! (Although I still question the intensity of the La'an/Kirk pairing and OH MY HEART SPOCK)
* Lyrics, lol - 'most peculiar' has been popping up in my head all week
* Was anyone else cracking up over Pike's sudden southern drawl in his singing voice?
* Dancing Redshirts!
and FINALLY
*THE KLINGONS Completely ridiculous, in all the right ways.
Really sad we only have one week left!
posted by Space Kitty at 12:04 PM on August 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
* The audacity! When they first started singing, I couldn't help it - it completely cracked me up
* La'an and Spock have surprisingly good singing voices, and the emotional beats for them in this episode were surprisingly well suited to musical theater! (Although I still question the intensity of the La'an/Kirk pairing and OH MY HEART SPOCK)
* Lyrics, lol - 'most peculiar' has been popping up in my head all week
* Was anyone else cracking up over Pike's sudden southern drawl in his singing voice?
* Dancing Redshirts!
and FINALLY
*THE KLINGONS Completely ridiculous, in all the right ways.
Really sad we only have one week left!
posted by Space Kitty at 12:04 PM on August 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
I've got a theory that it's a demon! A dancing demon? No something isn't right there.
I've got a theory some kid is dreaming, and we're all stuck inside his wacky broad way nightmare.
I've got a theory we should work this out.
It's getting eerie what's this cheery singing all about?
It could be witches, some evil witches! Which is ridiculous 'cause witches they were persecuted. Wicca good and love the earth and women power and I'll be over here.
I've got a theory, it could be bunnies!
I've got a theory—
Bunnies aren't just cute like everyone supposes. They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses, and what's with all the carrots!? What do they need such good eyesight for anyway!? Bunnies, bunnies, it must be bunnies!! Or maybe midgets…
I've got a theory we should work this fast
Because it clearly could get serious before it's passed.
I've got a theory, it doesn't matter. What can't we face if we're together? What's in this place that we can't weather. Apocalypse? We've all been there. The same old trips, why should we care?
What can't we do if we get in it. We'll work it through within a minute. We have to try, we'll pay the price. It's do or die. (Hey I've died twice.)
What can't we face if we're together. (What can't we face?)
What's in this place that we can't weather? (If we're together)
There's nothing we can't face
Except for bunnies.
posted by Marticus at 4:06 AM on August 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
I've got a theory some kid is dreaming, and we're all stuck inside his wacky broad way nightmare.
I've got a theory we should work this out.
It's getting eerie what's this cheery singing all about?
It could be witches, some evil witches! Which is ridiculous 'cause witches they were persecuted. Wicca good and love the earth and women power and I'll be over here.
I've got a theory, it could be bunnies!
I've got a theory—
Bunnies aren't just cute like everyone supposes. They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses, and what's with all the carrots!? What do they need such good eyesight for anyway!? Bunnies, bunnies, it must be bunnies!! Or maybe midgets…
I've got a theory we should work this fast
Because it clearly could get serious before it's passed.
I've got a theory, it doesn't matter. What can't we face if we're together? What's in this place that we can't weather. Apocalypse? We've all been there. The same old trips, why should we care?
What can't we do if we get in it. We'll work it through within a minute. We have to try, we'll pay the price. It's do or die. (Hey I've died twice.)
What can't we face if we're together. (What can't we face?)
What's in this place that we can't weather? (If we're together)
There's nothing we can't face
Except for bunnies.
posted by Marticus at 4:06 AM on August 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
why the actual fuck didn't the klingons sound like Ministry?
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 12:05 AM on August 8, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 12:05 AM on August 8, 2023 [2 favorites]
Because the quantum musical-wave was making everybody burst into song in a way that was awkward and uncomfortable and wonderful like a musical, not letting them choose the heaviest and most image-reinforcing genre. What I'm saying is, even if they'd subconsciously wished for Ministry, the best they could have hoped for would have been Ministry.
posted by The Tensor at 10:03 AM on August 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by The Tensor at 10:03 AM on August 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
Timeline issue: James Kirk now knows La'an Noonien-Singh, but the TOS Kirk isn't aware of the Noonien-Singh family line when he first encounters Khan.
posted by zadcat at 6:07 AM on August 9, 2023
posted by zadcat at 6:07 AM on August 9, 2023
In "Space Seed", he only identifies himself as "Khan" at first, and it's only after he's dropped some hints about being a former dictator and superman that they do some research (over the commercial break, I think) and identify him as Khan Noonien Singh. There's never a moment of Kirk going, "...who's that?"—they all seem to recall the history and have pre-existing opinions about it. It's maybe surprising that they didn't immediately recognize the face of Past Future Hitler (who presumably disappeared from history in the 1990's, which they'd identified as the era of origin of the Botany Bay), but that problem already existed in the original episode.
posted by The Tensor at 11:37 AM on August 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by The Tensor at 11:37 AM on August 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
which they'd identified as the era of origin of the Botany Bay
Botany Bay? Botany Bay??!
posted by Servo5678 at 1:01 PM on August 9, 2023
Botany Bay? Botany Bay??!
posted by Servo5678 at 1:01 PM on August 9, 2023
I despise musicals in general so imagine my surprise when I watched the whole episode of this show! They very nearly managed to make musical theater watchable!
posted by some loser at 4:24 AM on August 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by some loser at 4:24 AM on August 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
Buffy set the bar too high, I'm afraid; I was a bit underwhelmed. I thought the lyrics had too much awkward scansion driven by exposition.
"Your lyrics lack subtlety! You can't just have your characters announce how they feel! That makes me feel angry!"
--Robot Devil
Mind you, I still love this show. I love it because there are no puzzle box plots and no season long arcs to save the universe. This is comfort Trek to me, like TNG.
posted by Horkus at 8:06 PM on August 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
"Your lyrics lack subtlety! You can't just have your characters announce how they feel! That makes me feel angry!"
--Robot Devil
Mind you, I still love this show. I love it because there are no puzzle box plots and no season long arcs to save the universe. This is comfort Trek to me, like TNG.
posted by Horkus at 8:06 PM on August 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
My SO asked me what the hell I was watching at least three separate times.
hahaha I made sure I was going to be alone before I started watching it. I'm not a huge musical fan, so I watched alone while multitasking, which was bearable enough. I even liked the solo Uhura song (though they didn't reveal anything new about her character since her character has been pretty open about her motivations and worries since joining the show). One thing I will say about the Buffy musical is that they blatantly favored the actors who were great singers, and successfully obscured the less-great vocalists in busy ensemble numbers. I think they probably should've leaned more on Uhura and Spock in this episode, and...uh, less on literally everybody else.
I think it's fair Spock got dumped, but "publicly dumped as part of a big song-and-dance number" is so excruciating that I feel really bad for him.
posted by grandiloquiet at 12:34 PM on August 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
hahaha I made sure I was going to be alone before I started watching it. I'm not a huge musical fan, so I watched alone while multitasking, which was bearable enough. I even liked the solo Uhura song (though they didn't reveal anything new about her character since her character has been pretty open about her motivations and worries since joining the show). One thing I will say about the Buffy musical is that they blatantly favored the actors who were great singers, and successfully obscured the less-great vocalists in busy ensemble numbers. I think they probably should've leaned more on Uhura and Spock in this episode, and...uh, less on literally everybody else.
I think it's fair Spock got dumped, but "publicly dumped as part of a big song-and-dance number" is so excruciating that I feel really bad for him.
posted by grandiloquiet at 12:34 PM on August 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
I think it's fair Spock got dumped, but "publicly dumped as part of a big song-and-dance number" is so excruciating that I feel really bad for him.
Don't feel too bad for him, though. Remember that it's really "publicly dumped as part of a big song-and-dance number after Chapel asked him if they could speak privately but he insisted on making the whole thing public because bringing it up at all was just part of his experiment to look into the frequency of the song numbers."
posted by Navelgazer at 7:25 PM on August 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
Don't feel too bad for him, though. Remember that it's really "publicly dumped as part of a big song-and-dance number after Chapel asked him if they could speak privately but he insisted on making the whole thing public because bringing it up at all was just part of his experiment to look into the frequency of the song numbers."
posted by Navelgazer at 7:25 PM on August 13, 2023 [3 favorites]
I had to go back and watch the finale this morning (I'm running a few weeks behind!) because I started laughing so hard at the boy-band Klingons that I missed the last minute of the song.
I loved the Lower Decks episode, even though I watched that one alone because I knew the references would be way too thick for my non-Trekker wife. But while she was skeptical of the concept, she also wound up loving this episode--and I think, in retrospect, she would have enjoyed "Those Old Scientists" too (even if a lot of it might have gone over her head). I am consistently impressed at what these writers are capable of pulling off, handling wild swings in style and tone every week while still delivering consistent character growth and arcs.
(Who on the cast and crew listens to Paul Cavalcante on weekends playing the great American songbook?" Celia Rose Gooding, definitely--I'm convinced that was a shoutout; Carol Kane, almost certainly; the rest of the cast is probably a toss up.)
posted by thecaddy at 8:10 AM on August 18, 2023
I loved the Lower Decks episode, even though I watched that one alone because I knew the references would be way too thick for my non-Trekker wife. But while she was skeptical of the concept, she also wound up loving this episode--and I think, in retrospect, she would have enjoyed "Those Old Scientists" too (even if a lot of it might have gone over her head). I am consistently impressed at what these writers are capable of pulling off, handling wild swings in style and tone every week while still delivering consistent character growth and arcs.
(Who on the cast and crew listens to Paul Cavalcante on weekends playing the great American songbook?" Celia Rose Gooding, definitely--I'm convinced that was a shoutout; Carol Kane, almost certainly; the rest of the cast is probably a toss up.)
posted by thecaddy at 8:10 AM on August 18, 2023
I predicted opera for the Klingons and apparently (per the Variety interview linked above) I wasn't the only one. I suspect nothing would appall a Klingon as much as involuntary autotuned performance of, well, whatever the young'uns call that.
I got Ian Curtis vibes from Ethan Peck (appropriate for a Vulcan) and Rebecca Romjin had a nice Julie Andrews vibe, all the more pleasing because it was her singing. I enjoyed the heck out of this and God willing I hope they do it again!
posted by rabia.elizabeth at 10:45 AM on September 30, 2023
I got Ian Curtis vibes from Ethan Peck (appropriate for a Vulcan) and Rebecca Romjin had a nice Julie Andrews vibe, all the more pleasing because it was her singing. I enjoyed the heck out of this and God willing I hope they do it again!
posted by rabia.elizabeth at 10:45 AM on September 30, 2023
This was all right, but it was no How Much For Just The Planet.
posted by kyrademon at 3:36 PM on October 17, 2023
posted by kyrademon at 3:36 PM on October 17, 2023
I just wanted to cry for Spock, and I did cry when Kirk told La'An about Carol Marcus.
Glad I wasn’t the only one who was absolutely shattered by these revelations. I also bawled like a baby at the end of “Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow” when La’An cried after calling Kirk. The longing!
posted by edithkeeler at 6:06 AM on February 19
Glad I wasn’t the only one who was absolutely shattered by these revelations. I also bawled like a baby at the end of “Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow” when La’An cried after calling Kirk. The longing!
posted by edithkeeler at 6:06 AM on February 19
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Overall it was a little long and slow but also it was just a lot of fun and I can’t help but admire the audacity of a diegetic grand finale. The variety of different styles of musicals they went with for the pastiche was wonderful, and of COURSE you can’t just NOT have a minor-key reprise in there
Also autotuned Klingons. That’s it, that’s the whole sentence.
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:26 AM on August 3, 2023 [7 favorites]