Ahsoka: Master and Apprentice
August 23, 2023 1:28 AM - Season 1, Episode 1 - Subscribe
A valuable prisoner escapes New Republic custody; a search for answers reunites two old friends.
Yeah Sabine always veered too close to being a Mary Sue for my comfort. And it’s unfortunate that everything she’s been through hasn’t made her any more mature.
The fight scenes were well choreographed but oddly slow. I wonder if Aśoka’s headdress kept falling off or something so they had to be extra careful.
I loved that the Senator was played by the You’re drinking MY milk? TikTok guy! Took me ages to figure out where I’d seen him before.
posted by orrnyereg at 4:37 AM on August 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
The fight scenes were well choreographed but oddly slow. I wonder if Aśoka’s headdress kept falling off or something so they had to be extra careful.
I loved that the Senator was played by the You’re drinking MY milk? TikTok guy! Took me ages to figure out where I’d seen him before.
posted by orrnyereg at 4:37 AM on August 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
the hole-cutting fight scene
The one with Ahsoka, or the one with Sabine?
posted by 1970s Antihero at 5:56 AM on August 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
The one with Ahsoka, or the one with Sabine?
posted by 1970s Antihero at 5:56 AM on August 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
So far in the live action shows, I've found those that focus on original characters are by far the best, and the more they bring in existing characters (either from other TV shows or films), the less they work for some reason. Mandalorian seasons 1 & 2 and Andor - all brilliant. Mando season 3, Book of Boba Fett, and Obi-Wan Kenobi - all mediocre to bad despite being based on otherwise good characters. It'll be interesting to see if this show can break that curse despite being (essentially) a sequel to Rebels. Speaking of which, really curious how well this all works for people who never saw Rebels.
- Love the music that Sabine's listening too on her bike. And the sense of speed in that chase was great, the Boba Fett directors could learn a lot there.
- The E-Wing (the Lothal cops' ships) which was originally the successor to the X-Wing in the old Expanded Universe and this is it's first new-canon appearance in live action.
- Why do they hide important maps in old temples in Star Wars? (Answer: because it's Star Wars)
- The fight scenes were decent but nothing that lived up to Ahsoka vs Imperials in the misty forest from her Mandalorian appearance.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 6:05 AM on August 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
- Love the music that Sabine's listening too on her bike. And the sense of speed in that chase was great, the Boba Fett directors could learn a lot there.
- The E-Wing (the Lothal cops' ships) which was originally the successor to the X-Wing in the old Expanded Universe and this is it's first new-canon appearance in live action.
- Why do they hide important maps in old temples in Star Wars? (Answer: because it's Star Wars)
- The fight scenes were decent but nothing that lived up to Ahsoka vs Imperials in the misty forest from her Mandalorian appearance.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 6:05 AM on August 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
I liked this, but would have liked it a lot more if the spherical map-thing summoned Cenobites. Seriously, it looks like it should summon Cenobites.
Also: I'm not quite sure why the Rebel captain decided to toy with the strangers he believed were Imperial war criminals. I mean, they're potentially dangerous, right? Either destroy their ship or slap them in irons *immediately* once you have them on board; why mess about?
posted by Mr. Excellent at 6:27 AM on August 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
Also: I'm not quite sure why the Rebel captain decided to toy with the strangers he believed were Imperial war criminals. I mean, they're potentially dangerous, right? Either destroy their ship or slap them in irons *immediately* once you have them on board; why mess about?
posted by Mr. Excellent at 6:27 AM on August 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
His overconfidence was his weakness.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 6:33 AM on August 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by EndsOfInvention at 6:33 AM on August 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
really curious how well this all works for people who never saw Rebels
I speed-watched Rebels this summer, but it seems to me they are setting this up with character intros for people who didn't. I'm not really familiar with the expanded universe so I find that when established things go by me it's fine until it is explained later.
If I hadn't watched Rebels, my impressions would be:
I liked that Sabine decoding the map was a reference to her artistic skills and how it was used in Rebels; I thought they could have come up with a better "key" than "oh look it's the one giant obvious symbol in the temple that unlocks the map".
Since Thrawn is name-dropped in S3 of The Mandalorian (so presumably found albeit not shown) I was a bit confused about where this series is happening in the timeline. This article provides a helpful guide (short answer, probably between seasons 2 and 3 of The Mandalorian).
posted by mikepop at 7:49 AM on August 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
I speed-watched Rebels this summer, but it seems to me they are setting this up with character intros for people who didn't. I'm not really familiar with the expanded universe so I find that when established things go by me it's fine until it is explained later.
If I hadn't watched Rebels, my impressions would be:
- Ahsoka: we hope you saw her episode in that other show, but make sure she mentions she left the Jedi and that she was an apprentice to Anakin.
- Syndulla: old teammate, seems important, probably see more of her
- Sabine: just to make sure you get she is the tough rebellious archetype, she rides a motorcycle, has leather jackets, dyed hair, AND listens to alt-rock subspace radio.
- Ezra: important teammate/friend from the past who disappeared and was presumed dead but now will (re)-unite this team.
- Thrawn: dangerous bad guy who also was presumed dead, apparently in some kind of battle with Ezra
- Bad fake Jedi: Seem like well-trained villains!
- Morgan Elsbeth, prisoner I saw in that other show: wait, Star Wars has witches now?
- cute cat creatures!
I liked that Sabine decoding the map was a reference to her artistic skills and how it was used in Rebels; I thought they could have come up with a better "key" than "oh look it's the one giant obvious symbol in the temple that unlocks the map".
Since Thrawn is name-dropped in S3 of The Mandalorian (so presumably found albeit not shown) I was a bit confused about where this series is happening in the timeline. This article provides a helpful guide (short answer, probably between seasons 2 and 3 of The Mandalorian).
posted by mikepop at 7:49 AM on August 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
The fight scenes were well choreographed but oddly slow. I wonder if Aśoka’s headdress kept falling off or something so they had to be extra careful.
Everything felt oddly… plodding, like there was a an extra half-beat between lines that should have been tightened-up (It's StarWars, not Godot…)
Liked:
* Live action Loth-cats. I doubt they'll become the sensation that Baby Yoda was/is, but I have to imagine Disney has Loth-cat stuffies in the pipe for the holidays.
* StarWars punk is un-ironically decent. Diegetic music in StarWars that isn't Max Reebo makes the universe feel lived-in.
* Foul-mouthed murder bot wanting to cause a mass casualty event. Never change Chop, never change.
Not working:
* Over-reliance on the Volume makes many scenes feel rendered. It might have been the Volume or just plain bad lighting, but most scenes looked like they were shot under office lighting instead of studio lighting -- all flat and washed out. (Sabine's crash pad in the comms tower was a noticeable exception.)
* Mary Elizabeth Winstead isn't quite capturing Hera but she's not had a lot to work with yet. tbd.
posted by nathan_teske at 7:51 AM on August 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
Everything felt oddly… plodding, like there was a an extra half-beat between lines that should have been tightened-up (It's StarWars, not Godot…)
Liked:
* Live action Loth-cats. I doubt they'll become the sensation that Baby Yoda was/is, but I have to imagine Disney has Loth-cat stuffies in the pipe for the holidays.
* StarWars punk is un-ironically decent. Diegetic music in StarWars that isn't Max Reebo makes the universe feel lived-in.
* Foul-mouthed murder bot wanting to cause a mass casualty event. Never change Chop, never change.
Not working:
* Over-reliance on the Volume makes many scenes feel rendered. It might have been the Volume or just plain bad lighting, but most scenes looked like they were shot under office lighting instead of studio lighting -- all flat and washed out. (Sabine's crash pad in the comms tower was a noticeable exception.)
* Mary Elizabeth Winstead isn't quite capturing Hera but she's not had a lot to work with yet. tbd.
posted by nathan_teske at 7:51 AM on August 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
Also — where are Zeb, Kallus and Jacen? It would also be nice to see a certain someone as a force ghost…
posted by nathan_teske at 8:19 AM on August 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by nathan_teske at 8:19 AM on August 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
I liked this a lot, and I haven't watched any of the animated SW. I like the space wizard-samurais doing battle. The evil apprentice seems a bit tightly wound.
Sabine is okay. Hera is "meh", and I say that as someone who's been crushing on Winstead for ten years. The main bad guy has the proper gravitas.
I'm all-in for the space witches.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:08 AM on August 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
Sabine is okay. Hera is "meh", and I say that as someone who's been crushing on Winstead for ten years. The main bad guy has the proper gravitas.
I'm all-in for the space witches.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:08 AM on August 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
Love the music that Sabine's listening too on her bike.
My comment when it was started is that I was surprised they hadn’t just used Sabotage by the Beastie Boys. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that they used it as temp music in early edits.
The whole thing was strangely plodding, but at least not as terribly as the episodes of The Mandalorian/The Book of Boba Fett directed by Robert Rodriguez.
posted by jimw at 9:16 AM on August 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
My comment when it was started is that I was surprised they hadn’t just used Sabotage by the Beastie Boys. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that they used it as temp music in early edits.
The whole thing was strangely plodding, but at least not as terribly as the episodes of The Mandalorian/The Book of Boba Fett directed by Robert Rodriguez.
posted by jimw at 9:16 AM on August 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
My comment when it was started is that I was surprised they hadn’t just used Sabotage by the Beastie Boys.
Right song, wrong show.
posted by nathan_teske at 9:25 AM on August 23, 2023
Right song, wrong show.
posted by nathan_teske at 9:25 AM on August 23, 2023
Yeah, I'm trying to decide if I should crush out the ... uhh... (counts) 12-ish hours of Rebels first or not. Like, I finished Clone Wars in time, so I'm plenty familiar with Ahsoka, but all the rest of the rebels are going to be unfamiliar to me.
posted by Kyol at 10:12 AM on August 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Kyol at 10:12 AM on August 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
Also: I'm not quite sure why the Rebel captain decided to toy with the strangers he believed were Imperial war criminals. I mean, they're potentially dangerous, right? Either destroy their ship or slap them in irons *immediately* once you have them on board; why mess about?
He's a Skrull?
posted by orrnyereg at 10:45 AM on August 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
He's a Skrull?
posted by orrnyereg at 10:45 AM on August 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
Everything felt oddly… plodding, like there was a an extra half-beat between lines that should have been tightened-up
I also felt like the emotional tone was much flatter than I was expecting, and I don't know if part of that is the natural "faster, more intense" you get from animated performances vs live action (I did just rewatch the whole Rebels series as prep for this) or if there's a general in-house style directive that all dialogue scenes are to be directed this way.
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:11 AM on August 23, 2023
I also felt like the emotional tone was much flatter than I was expecting, and I don't know if part of that is the natural "faster, more intense" you get from animated performances vs live action (I did just rewatch the whole Rebels series as prep for this) or if there's a general in-house style directive that all dialogue scenes are to be directed this way.
posted by Strange Interlude at 11:11 AM on August 23, 2023
The actor who plays "Baylan Skoll" (the former Jedi mercenary), Ray Stevenson, passed away three months ago and there's a dedication to him at the end.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:55 AM on August 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:55 AM on August 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
I'm confused by the Imperial equivalent to witness protection being storing the location of your safehouse on a laptop next to a post-it with "pw1234" written on it in an unguarded field office.
But then I remembered Space Wizards and let it slide.
posted by Molesome at 12:28 PM on August 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
But then I remembered Space Wizards and let it slide.
posted by Molesome at 12:28 PM on August 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
> I also felt like the emotional tone was much flatter than I was expecting
It's a Star Wars thing, especially with the Jedi. Everyone in live action Star Wars sounds like their valium is just kicking in -- Andor being the very special exception.
plus, this was largely exposition, it's gonna be flat.
posted by Sauce Trough at 12:31 PM on August 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
It's a Star Wars thing, especially with the Jedi. Everyone in live action Star Wars sounds like their valium is just kicking in -- Andor being the very special exception.
plus, this was largely exposition, it's gonna be flat.
posted by Sauce Trough at 12:31 PM on August 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
is it just me or are those New Republic uniforms really unflattering? Terrible color, terrible cut, the material looks heavy and stiff. these costume designers are too awesome for this to be unintentional, right?
posted by Sauce Trough at 12:50 PM on August 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Sauce Trough at 12:50 PM on August 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
> Love the music that Sabine's listening too on her bike.
and the end credit music sounded 100% like Apocalyptica! that would have been a trip, but I'm not seeing them in the credits...
posted by Sauce Trough at 1:02 PM on August 23, 2023
and the end credit music sounded 100% like Apocalyptica! that would have been a trip, but I'm not seeing them in the credits...
posted by Sauce Trough at 1:02 PM on August 23, 2023
Moreso than in the other shows, I liked that they really leaned into the retro aesthetic for the ship's bridge and naval uniforms.
posted by porpoise at 6:03 PM on August 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by porpoise at 6:03 PM on August 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
I kept waiting for the starmap to suddenly spurt blades and cut off fingers.
posted by porpoise at 6:42 PM on August 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by porpoise at 6:42 PM on August 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
I half-watched Rebels when it originally aired because my kid was into it, so I knew at least the broad contours of who these characters all are and what the main point of the story is, but it's hard to really care because this all just feels like backfill, just like the Obi-Wan series. Star Wars desperately needs some new characters and stories at this point - as mentioned above, the success of the first two seasons of The Mandalorian came from NOT revisiting all the same old stuff.
posted by briank at 6:35 AM on August 24, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by briank at 6:35 AM on August 24, 2023 [4 favorites]
I thought they could have come up with a better "key" than "oh look it's the one giant obvious symbol in the temple that unlocks the map"
It did crack me up that Sabine had to go to her sanctum to get all Beautiful Mind on the map and the reveal was that the temple scan had a giant "DECODE MAP THIS WAY PLEASE" sign printed on the floor
When Ray's malevolent Sith-type showed up, I had to spend a couple minutes guessing what his Star Wars Baddie name would be. Darth N'Farious? Sith Vicious? Sol Badguy? Oh - Baleful Skull will work.
is it just me or are those New Republic uniforms really unflattering? Terrible color, terrible cut, the material looks heavy and stiff.
I wondered about this as well, especially in light of the profoundly overused 'lived-in universe' schtick - all the Republic outfits look like they just came out of the bag at a Spirit Halloween store, and they look like they smell of that heavy 'New Nylon' scent. I had to wonder if it was deliberate, showing how this is still a very wobbly-newborn operation that doesn't have the resources together enough to get to the Empire's Hugo Boss style level.
posted by FatherDagon at 7:10 AM on August 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
It did crack me up that Sabine had to go to her sanctum to get all Beautiful Mind on the map and the reveal was that the temple scan had a giant "DECODE MAP THIS WAY PLEASE" sign printed on the floor
When Ray's malevolent Sith-type showed up, I had to spend a couple minutes guessing what his Star Wars Baddie name would be. Darth N'Farious? Sith Vicious? Sol Badguy? Oh - Baleful Skull will work.
is it just me or are those New Republic uniforms really unflattering? Terrible color, terrible cut, the material looks heavy and stiff.
I wondered about this as well, especially in light of the profoundly overused 'lived-in universe' schtick - all the Republic outfits look like they just came out of the bag at a Spirit Halloween store, and they look like they smell of that heavy 'New Nylon' scent. I had to wonder if it was deliberate, showing how this is still a very wobbly-newborn operation that doesn't have the resources together enough to get to the Empire's Hugo Boss style level.
posted by FatherDagon at 7:10 AM on August 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
really curious how well this all works for people who never saw Rebels
It's OK so far, but I'd kind of been primed to possibly feel a little out of my depth. I'm fine for now with going along on the premise I'll get the backstory I need, and I think I've got enough of the broad strokes from the set up. The big question for me is whether the show can make Ezra and Thrawn worth the build-up for someone coming in with a baseline of pretty much zero with all these characters, because if all these women are wasting their time on meh men, I'm going to be annoyed.
posted by EvaDestruction at 2:07 PM on August 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
It's OK so far, but I'd kind of been primed to possibly feel a little out of my depth. I'm fine for now with going along on the premise I'll get the backstory I need, and I think I've got enough of the broad strokes from the set up. The big question for me is whether the show can make Ezra and Thrawn worth the build-up for someone coming in with a baseline of pretty much zero with all these characters, because if all these women are wasting their time on meh men, I'm going to be annoyed.
posted by EvaDestruction at 2:07 PM on August 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
The friend I watched this with and I want stuffie loth-cats now. Alas, the patterns I found on Ravelry did not compare.
As someone who's never watched any Clone Wars anything, I was surprisingly still interested. I like Hera and Sabine (rebel but intriguing) and Ahsoka's calm air during all of this is something I'm enjoying. Plus space cats.
I did get all "argh!" when Sabine got ran through with a lightsaber, when someone else died of that earlier in the show. I guess that's not an issue?
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:03 PM on August 24, 2023
As someone who's never watched any Clone Wars anything, I was surprisingly still interested. I like Hera and Sabine (rebel but intriguing) and Ahsoka's calm air during all of this is something I'm enjoying. Plus space cats.
I did get all "argh!" when Sabine got ran through with a lightsaber, when someone else died of that earlier in the show. I guess that's not an issue?
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:03 PM on August 24, 2023
really curious how well this all works for people who never saw Rebels
Fine so far, but my poor visual imagination might never connect the animated version of a race with the live-action one anyway, especially when the voice actor has not carried over to live action. I actually had no idea we’d seen Morgan Elsbeth before (in live action, even) until I read mikepop’s comment above. Face blindness is damned inconvenient sometimes.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:25 PM on August 24, 2023
Fine so far, but my poor visual imagination might never connect the animated version of a race with the live-action one anyway, especially when the voice actor has not carried over to live action. I actually had no idea we’d seen Morgan Elsbeth before (in live action, even) until I read mikepop’s comment above. Face blindness is damned inconvenient sometimes.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:25 PM on August 24, 2023
all the Republic outfits look like they just came out of the bag at a Spirit Halloween store, and they look like they smell of that heavy 'New Nylon' scent. I had to wonder if it was deliberate, showing how this is still a very wobbly-newborn operation that doesn't have the resources together enough to get to the Empire's Hugo Boss style level.
At least some of the Republic uniforms are straight out of Return of the Jedi
posted by The Tensor at 9:36 PM on August 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
At least some of the Republic uniforms are straight out of Return of the Jedi
posted by The Tensor at 9:36 PM on August 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
As someone who did watch Rebels, I'm really struggling with the idea that Sabine has enough Force-sensitivity to train as a Jedi. She's a super-athletic and creative person, but in 4 seasons where she lived with two Jedi, nobody ever mentioned the possibility of that.
She did train with a light-saber for a specific purpose, yes, but that's not the same.
Sabine should have reacted more to the mention of Dathomir: she had a pretty traumatic experience there.
Really not loving Hera here: I think the actress is not carrying Hera's gravity and conviction particularly well. She comes across too light. Sabine is okay, despite the backstory they have created here.
Did anyone else notice Vinny Thomas as the Senator? I love that! That character actually showed up in one Season 1 ep of Rebels, never to be seen again.
Anyway, I am profoundly on the fence here: it's pretty clunky and obvious, and suffers in comparison to Andor. Why do we need more Jedi?
posted by suelac at 11:30 PM on August 24, 2023 [7 favorites]
She did train with a light-saber for a specific purpose, yes, but that's not the same.
Sabine should have reacted more to the mention of Dathomir: she had a pretty traumatic experience there.
Really not loving Hera here: I think the actress is not carrying Hera's gravity and conviction particularly well. She comes across too light. Sabine is okay, despite the backstory they have created here.
Did anyone else notice Vinny Thomas as the Senator? I love that! That character actually showed up in one Season 1 ep of Rebels, never to be seen again.
Anyway, I am profoundly on the fence here: it's pretty clunky and obvious, and suffers in comparison to Andor. Why do we need more Jedi?
posted by suelac at 11:30 PM on August 24, 2023 [7 favorites]
really curious how well this all works for people who never saw Rebels
I've never watched Rebels and only got a quarter or so of the way through The Clone Wars.
It's not a problem. It never is a problem, really. Screenwriters aren't dumb, they put in exposition to explain anything that you actually need to know.
Starting halfway through a TV season would be a problem because the screenwriters assume that almost everyone's been watching that from the start. But they seem to assume that anything more than a year or so ago you might have not seen or just forgotten.
Avengers: Infinity War SPOILER below...
It's a different franchise, but Avengers: Infinity War is probably the ultimate in you-need-to-have-seen-the-others as it's the culmination of a massive story phase. But even then, if you look at the Infinity War script there's a ton of exposition.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 1:59 AM on August 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
I've never watched Rebels and only got a quarter or so of the way through The Clone Wars.
It's not a problem. It never is a problem, really. Screenwriters aren't dumb, they put in exposition to explain anything that you actually need to know.
Starting halfway through a TV season would be a problem because the screenwriters assume that almost everyone's been watching that from the start. But they seem to assume that anything more than a year or so ago you might have not seen or just forgotten.
Avengers: Infinity War SPOILER below...
It's a different franchise, but Avengers: Infinity War is probably the ultimate in you-need-to-have-seen-the-others as it's the culmination of a massive story phase. But even then, if you look at the Infinity War script there's a ton of exposition.
NATASHA ROMANOFF: World governments are in pieces. The parts that are still working are trying to take a census. And it looks like he did... he did exactly what he said he was gonna do. Thanos wiped out fifty percent, of all living creatures.It's just not a thing that screenwriters assume all the viewers know what's happened in previous installments. They make sure to tell you anything significant.
...
SCOTT LANG: Alright. So... five years ago, right before Thanos, I was in a place called the Quantum Realm. The Quantum Realm is like its own microscopic universe. To get in there, you have to be incredibly small. Hope, she's my... She was my... [struggling to not tell the entire truth about their relationship] She was supposed to pull me out. And then Thanos happened, and I got stuck in there.
...
[Song "My Supersonic Ship" plays in the background. Cut to Bruce sitting at the back of a Utility car as they traverse the green countryside of Norway. They pass a sign labelled "WELCOME TO NEW ASGARD, PLEASE DRIVE SLOWLY.". They stop at a small town on a port. Bruce and Rocket get out of the car, and look around at the remaining Asgardians, living like normal humans at a port.]
ROCKET: Kind of a step down from a golden palace and magic hammers and whatnot.
BRUCE BANNER: Hey, have a little compassion, pal. First they've lost Asgard, then half the people. They're probably just happy to have a home.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 1:59 AM on August 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
I think the actress is not carrying Hera's gravity and conviction particularly well. She comes across too light.
Having watched all of Rebels twice, I agree to the extent that her character should have a more noticeable sadness—assuming this is all happening not too long after Endor—not only over Kanan's death and Ezra's disappearance but also Sabine's self-isolation and the apparent departure of Zeb (although of course he's still part of The Cause, as we learned in Mando); the Spectres were every bit a family. Also, maybe, she should be showing more of that warmth toward Sabine; the uniform wouldn't impact that—but maybe some not-yet-revealed Ahsoka/Sabine backstory will?
But all that said, I can totally see Hera's relative humorlessness and steely purposefulness easing off a bit post-Endor.
I'm actually really impressed with this version of Sabine. She's stagnated in some ways (which we will learn more about), but grown in some ways: if you'd asked me what Sabine's defining quote is, I'd have said "*aggravated grumble-whine*" based solely on Rebels. Her fire seems more controlled.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 4:00 AM on August 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
Having watched all of Rebels twice, I agree to the extent that her character should have a more noticeable sadness—assuming this is all happening not too long after Endor—not only over Kanan's death and Ezra's disappearance but also Sabine's self-isolation and the apparent departure of Zeb (although of course he's still part of The Cause, as we learned in Mando); the Spectres were every bit a family. Also, maybe, she should be showing more of that warmth toward Sabine; the uniform wouldn't impact that—but maybe some not-yet-revealed Ahsoka/Sabine backstory will?
But all that said, I can totally see Hera's relative humorlessness and steely purposefulness easing off a bit post-Endor.
I'm actually really impressed with this version of Sabine. She's stagnated in some ways (which we will learn more about), but grown in some ways: if you'd asked me what Sabine's defining quote is, I'd have said "*aggravated grumble-whine*" based solely on Rebels. Her fire seems more controlled.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 4:00 AM on August 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
As someone who did watch Rebels, I'm really struggling with the idea that Sabine has enough Force-sensitivity to train as a Jedi. She's a super-athletic and creative person, but in 4 seasons where she lived with two Jedi, nobody ever mentioned the possibility of that.
I think we're missing a key piece of information here. When Ahsoka/Sabine set up their Master/Apprentice situation, was the goal to make her a Jedi and somehow unlock some force sensitivity, or was the goal to train her in the "ways" of the Jedi, i.e. lightsaber stuff, philosophy, meditation, etc., and be a better team? Ahsoka is the first one to remind everyone she is no longer a Jedi (and the opening crawl of this episode refers to her as a "former Jedi Knight") so you already have the basis for a different kind of partnership. Did it fall apart because Sabine was frustrated she couldn't use the Force, or for other reasons? I'm assuming we'll find out via flashbacks or exposition.
But I agree that since there were zero clues or hints to any aspect of Sabine being Force-sensitive (that I recall), I would be struggling to accept any conveniently happening now.
posted by mikepop at 6:35 AM on August 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
I think we're missing a key piece of information here. When Ahsoka/Sabine set up their Master/Apprentice situation, was the goal to make her a Jedi and somehow unlock some force sensitivity, or was the goal to train her in the "ways" of the Jedi, i.e. lightsaber stuff, philosophy, meditation, etc., and be a better team? Ahsoka is the first one to remind everyone she is no longer a Jedi (and the opening crawl of this episode refers to her as a "former Jedi Knight") so you already have the basis for a different kind of partnership. Did it fall apart because Sabine was frustrated she couldn't use the Force, or for other reasons? I'm assuming we'll find out via flashbacks or exposition.
But I agree that since there were zero clues or hints to any aspect of Sabine being Force-sensitive (that I recall), I would be struggling to accept any conveniently happening now.
posted by mikepop at 6:35 AM on August 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
I did get all "argh!" when Sabine got ran through with a lightsaber, when someone else died of that earlier in the show. I guess that's not an issue?
You can get shot through the chest and survive or die depending where it hits. Obviously a lightsaber is a somewhat bigger wound but it does get cauterised and they have hi-tech medicine so...
posted by EndsOfInvention at 7:16 AM on August 25, 2023
You can get shot through the chest and survive or die depending where it hits. Obviously a lightsaber is a somewhat bigger wound but it does get cauterised and they have hi-tech medicine so...
posted by EndsOfInvention at 7:16 AM on August 25, 2023
As someone who did watch Rebels, I'm really struggling with the idea that Sabine has enough Force-sensitivity to train as a Jedi.
I haven’t heard what Filoni’s explanation is, but I imagine it would be something hand-wavey along the lines of “EVERYONE is connected to the Force” or such.
The way I’m dealing with it in my head is that Sabine is/was Ahsoka’s apprentice, but not her padawan. I don’t recall they ever used the term “padawan” on screen, and she doesn’t have the braid like Shin Hati does. My head-canon is that after she was left with Ezra’s light saber, Sabine expressed an interest in continuing her light saber training that she started with Kanan, and Ahsoka agreed (probably with some arm-twisting from Hera).
posted by 1970s Antihero at 7:18 AM on August 25, 2023
I haven’t heard what Filoni’s explanation is, but I imagine it would be something hand-wavey along the lines of “EVERYONE is connected to the Force” or such.
The way I’m dealing with it in my head is that Sabine is/was Ahsoka’s apprentice, but not her padawan. I don’t recall they ever used the term “padawan” on screen, and she doesn’t have the braid like Shin Hati does. My head-canon is that after she was left with Ezra’s light saber, Sabine expressed an interest in continuing her light saber training that she started with Kanan, and Ahsoka agreed (probably with some arm-twisting from Hera).
posted by 1970s Antihero at 7:18 AM on August 25, 2023
If the end result of this show is the determination that Jedi doesn't mean space wizard/peacekeeper, but instead is a school of philosophy/religious belief, I'm all for it. I just don't know if Filoni has that in him...
posted by suelac at 7:21 AM on August 25, 2023
posted by suelac at 7:21 AM on August 25, 2023
You can get shot through the chest and survive or die depending where it hits. Obviously a lightsaber is a somewhat bigger wound but it does get cauterised and they have hi-tech medicine so...
It's interesting in that it actively takes a lot of effort to stab someone through with a lightsaber and *not* immediately cut them in half with a twitch of the wrist. A single hole means that the saber was either pulled straight back out the full length of the saber without a single wiggle, or deliberately turned off while still impaling the target. You do literally anything else, and things start falling into cauterized pieces.
posted by FatherDagon at 8:32 AM on August 25, 2023 [4 favorites]
It's interesting in that it actively takes a lot of effort to stab someone through with a lightsaber and *not* immediately cut them in half with a twitch of the wrist. A single hole means that the saber was either pulled straight back out the full length of the saber without a single wiggle, or deliberately turned off while still impaling the target. You do literally anything else, and things start falling into cauterized pieces.
posted by FatherDagon at 8:32 AM on August 25, 2023 [4 favorites]
A helpful explanation of what's going on pre-show for those of us who never watched the cartoons.
Here’s where Ahsoka makes a risky creative choice. The premiere establishes that at some point Ahsoka attempted to train Sabine as a Jedi before one, or both, of them gave up. There’s clearly a complicated history between the two, so it’s entirely understandable if viewers feel lost because they missed something that was covered in Rebels. Surprise! They didn’t. The whole Jedi training thing is completely brand new.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:56 AM on August 25, 2023
Here’s where Ahsoka makes a risky creative choice. The premiere establishes that at some point Ahsoka attempted to train Sabine as a Jedi before one, or both, of them gave up. There’s clearly a complicated history between the two, so it’s entirely understandable if viewers feel lost because they missed something that was covered in Rebels. Surprise! They didn’t. The whole Jedi training thing is completely brand new.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:56 AM on August 25, 2023
The secret temple looked to me a lot like the temple in The Fifth Element, but all ancient alien temples kinda look alike I guess.
really curious how well this all works for people who never saw Rebels
I was confused, they seemed to be referencing recent events and I was thinking they were in Rogue One or Solo and I just had not noticed the character.
..and yes this is Star Wars but whew some of the dialog is just so "on the nose" lame.
posted by sammyo at 8:37 PM on August 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
really curious how well this all works for people who never saw Rebels
I was confused, they seemed to be referencing recent events and I was thinking they were in Rogue One or Solo and I just had not noticed the character.
..and yes this is Star Wars but whew some of the dialog is just so "on the nose" lame.
posted by sammyo at 8:37 PM on August 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
I was bored and I hated it. Plodding dialogue and obviously stunt-doubled action that mostly looks like it was shot under fluorescent lights in an office block. Dumb pointless bullshit on a space motorcycle that goes on far, far too long after we Get What You're Establishing About The Character Here, Thanks. Nuclear-level self-destruct robots, WTF? And, oh right, ANOTHER nonsensical Ancient Seekrit Space Map.
I will probably watch at least one more episode, just in case, but it better be FANTASTIC after that intro.
posted by kyrademon at 11:48 AM on September 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
I will probably watch at least one more episode, just in case, but it better be FANTASTIC after that intro.
posted by kyrademon at 11:48 AM on September 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
The next two episodes aren't that much different so you might as well bail now if it's not your thing.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 12:47 PM on September 2, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by TheophileEscargot at 12:47 PM on September 2, 2023 [2 favorites]
really curious how well this all works for people who never saw Rebels
It's not terrible, in the sense I'm able to piece a few things together. But it's mildly annoying, as little effort seems to have been made to get new watchers up to speed. The show seems made for those who did watch Rebels and/or other shows, so I'm not very invested in anything. The glacial pacing isn't helping.
Still, it's fine as something to have on while doing something else, if one is interested in keeping up with the latest popular Star Wars thing. Sure, that's not high praise, but it's not meant to be. Just noting that its generally fine, but it's not something that makes me want to go watch Rebels.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:53 AM on September 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
It's not terrible, in the sense I'm able to piece a few things together. But it's mildly annoying, as little effort seems to have been made to get new watchers up to speed. The show seems made for those who did watch Rebels and/or other shows, so I'm not very invested in anything. The glacial pacing isn't helping.
Still, it's fine as something to have on while doing something else, if one is interested in keeping up with the latest popular Star Wars thing. Sure, that's not high praise, but it's not meant to be. Just noting that its generally fine, but it's not something that makes me want to go watch Rebels.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:53 AM on September 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
I liked it! Haven't watched any animated Star Wars stuff, am a cautious fan. I like seeing women characters, had quite enough of the gruff silent men. I didn't find the action scenes to be slow or something, but could this be that people who are used to seeing these characters in action only in animation? To be fair I have no idea how faster-faster-3d-action packed Star Wars Rebels is. It's on my list to check out some day. So I.. don't think I was missing any crucial info?
I think the cat was a bit weird looking for a cat. My secret hope also is that the cat can speak. Also the one who got lightsaber-stabbed was wearing a red shirt/top, I got a bad feeling about that when the fight broke out. Didn't know how crucial character she is - still don't really - but thought it'd be bit cold to have the first episode end in a fight to death for a major(?) character.
Going to smoke another spliff and watch episode two right now. Also, I'd just like to say how much I appreciate FanFare!
posted by fridgebuzz at 4:39 PM on September 20, 2023
I think the cat was a bit weird looking for a cat. My secret hope also is that the cat can speak. Also the one who got lightsaber-stabbed was wearing a red shirt/top, I got a bad feeling about that when the fight broke out. Didn't know how crucial character she is - still don't really - but thought it'd be bit cold to have the first episode end in a fight to death for a major(?) character.
Going to smoke another spliff and watch episode two right now. Also, I'd just like to say how much I appreciate FanFare!
posted by fridgebuzz at 4:39 PM on September 20, 2023
You may ask yourself, “Where does that highway go to?”
posted by Naberius at 10:42 PM on October 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Naberius at 10:42 PM on October 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
I did ask that, I think it was to a landing pad? That or it was one of those roads to nowhere in the style of southern Italy where the EU money runs out before they get where they're going.
Its not a road that gets a lot of traffic is it? Not in the cartoon either iirc.
posted by biffa at 12:29 PM on April 4
Its not a road that gets a lot of traffic is it? Not in the cartoon either iirc.
posted by biffa at 12:29 PM on April 4
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posted by TheophileEscargot at 3:32 AM on August 23, 2023 [3 favorites]