Ahsoka: Toil and Trouble
August 23, 2023 1:30 AM - Season 1, Episode 2 - Subscribe
Ahsoka and an ally travel to New Republic shipyards and make an unexpected discovery.
I'm not entirely sold on our heros (Hera especially) but the baddies are first-rate. The padawan looks like she is thisclose to making a necklace out of ears or something.
posted by orrnyereg at 6:02 AM on August 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by orrnyereg at 6:02 AM on August 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
alright, now this is properly underway. glad they shipped the first two as a pair.
speculation: in her Mandalorian appearance, we saw Ahsoka was really not interested in training up another Jedi ... but maybe she figured that Sabine was a safe choice as an apprentice because Sabine is pretty feeble with the Force, and thus way less likely to be a dark side terror like Vader? but then maybe she had second thoughts? Sabine doesn't really have ideal padawan temperment.
Have we ever seen Sabine use the force? She can certainly fight with an energy blade, but can she move matter and minds?
posted by Sauce Trough at 1:01 PM on August 23, 2023
speculation: in her Mandalorian appearance, we saw Ahsoka was really not interested in training up another Jedi ... but maybe she figured that Sabine was a safe choice as an apprentice because Sabine is pretty feeble with the Force, and thus way less likely to be a dark side terror like Vader? but then maybe she had second thoughts? Sabine doesn't really have ideal padawan temperment.
Have we ever seen Sabine use the force? She can certainly fight with an energy blade, but can she move matter and minds?
posted by Sauce Trough at 1:01 PM on August 23, 2023
Me, to self: “Don’t split hairs, no one cares about the white saber blades, you’re ridiculous.”
Also me, muttering ala Janet from The Good Place: “Not a Jedi…”
posted by FallibleHuman at 1:24 PM on August 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
Also me, muttering ala Janet from The Good Place: “Not a Jedi…”
posted by FallibleHuman at 1:24 PM on August 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
Am I having a stroke? Morgan Elsbeth's ship looks like something out of David Lynch's 'Dune,' and then the "Thrawn calls to me. Across time and space."
Peter Jacobson! As a 'Regional Supervisor' ('Colony'), also.
posted by porpoise at 7:13 PM on August 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
Peter Jacobson! As a 'Regional Supervisor' ('Colony'), also.
posted by porpoise at 7:13 PM on August 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
I'd have to rewatch again to be more sure, but to me Morgan Elsbeth's "ship" looked more like a colossal hyperdrive docking ring some of the older Jedi starfighters used during the Clone Wars. I just assumed her plan is to dock it to an Imperial star destroyer or super star destroyer and use it to go to plaid to reach the Thrawn in the next galaxy over.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 2:59 AM on August 24, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 2:59 AM on August 24, 2023 [7 favorites]
I enjoyed the two episodes overall - not quite as much as early Mandalorian but definitely getting better vibes than Boba Fett or Obi-Wan so far. A lot of the lines are a bit flat (apart from the droids, amusingly - Chopper's lines by Dave Filoni are even more understandable than normal) and the characters lack some emotion, but the plot is interesting enough and as orrnyereg says the baddies are great. I love the HK droids. The lightsaber battle here was fun - a lot of lightsaber fights end up feeling pretty samey but these have been entertaining.
Interesting teases about "an ancient race from a distant galaxy" and the giant hyperdrive core needed to travel there. That looked like a Jedi Starfighter hyperdrive ring but sized for... a Star Destroyer? On preview: exactly, Fiberoptic!
Mrs. CoB thinks masked baddie is Ezra.
The mask does seem significant. Usually a masked bad guy is hiding an important connection (Vader, Kylo Ren). I'm thinking we should avoid speculation around old Expanded Universe Thrawn plot points as this may lead to spoilers for those who didn't read those books. They've already included a lot of EU elements from the Heir to the Empire series so it's likely there will be more.
but maybe she figured that Sabine was a safe choice as an apprentice because Sabine is pretty feeble with the Force, and thus way less likely to be a dark side terror like Vader?
She also knew Sabine for a lot longer - Grogu was just some random kid she barely knew anything about. If you failed to train a friend you had a strong connection with, training an unknown child might seem even more likely to fail.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:04 AM on August 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
Interesting teases about "an ancient race from a distant galaxy" and the giant hyperdrive core needed to travel there. That looked like a Jedi Starfighter hyperdrive ring but sized for... a Star Destroyer? On preview: exactly, Fiberoptic!
Mrs. CoB thinks masked baddie is Ezra.
The mask does seem significant. Usually a masked bad guy is hiding an important connection (Vader, Kylo Ren). I'm thinking we should avoid speculation around old Expanded Universe Thrawn plot points as this may lead to spoilers for those who didn't read those books. They've already included a lot of EU elements from the Heir to the Empire series so it's likely there will be more.
but maybe she figured that Sabine was a safe choice as an apprentice because Sabine is pretty feeble with the Force, and thus way less likely to be a dark side terror like Vader?
She also knew Sabine for a lot longer - Grogu was just some random kid she barely knew anything about. If you failed to train a friend you had a strong connection with, training an unknown child might seem even more likely to fail.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:04 AM on August 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
(the Lynchian ship - I was thinking of the small ship she took to get to the stonehenge thing)
posted by porpoise at 7:54 AM on August 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by porpoise at 7:54 AM on August 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
I can’t remember if we ever saw Kanan’s body in Rebels, but if not, he seems like another masked baddie possibility.
posted by FallibleHuman at 8:34 AM on August 24, 2023
posted by FallibleHuman at 8:34 AM on August 24, 2023
Kanan
Seems unlikely. Freddie Prinze Jr. Says He Is Done Playing Kanan Jarrus.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 9:31 AM on August 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
Seems unlikely. Freddie Prinze Jr. Says He Is Done Playing Kanan Jarrus.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 9:31 AM on August 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
Have we ever seen Sabine use the force? She can certainly fight with an energy blade, but can she move matter and minds?
This is kinda my sticking point on this storyline. There's a whole subplot in the third season of Rebels where Kanan specifically trains Sabine in the use of a lightsaber when she unwittingly becomes the temporary wielder of the Darksaber. I'd figure that if she showed any Force aptitude at that point, he would have noticed it and at least been like "hey, maybe we can expand on this later", but there's no indication that's the case.
I can accept that stuff will happen offscreen during the time between eras, but so far there's two things I hope get addressed fairly quick: 1) Whether Sabine is Force sensitive, especially after already receiving Jedi-adjacent instruction from another Force user, and 2) Just where in the San Hill Ahsoka was puttering around during the Original Trilogy era, following her escape from the collapsing temple in Rebels?
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:04 PM on August 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
This is kinda my sticking point on this storyline. There's a whole subplot in the third season of Rebels where Kanan specifically trains Sabine in the use of a lightsaber when she unwittingly becomes the temporary wielder of the Darksaber. I'd figure that if she showed any Force aptitude at that point, he would have noticed it and at least been like "hey, maybe we can expand on this later", but there's no indication that's the case.
I can accept that stuff will happen offscreen during the time between eras, but so far there's two things I hope get addressed fairly quick: 1) Whether Sabine is Force sensitive, especially after already receiving Jedi-adjacent instruction from another Force user, and 2) Just where in the San Hill Ahsoka was puttering around during the Original Trilogy era, following her escape from the collapsing temple in Rebels?
posted by Strange Interlude at 12:04 PM on August 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
>> Grogu was just some random kid she barely knew anything about. If you failed to train a friend you had a strong connection with, training an unknown child might seem even more likely to fail.
Grogu has better moichandising potential. #YoghurtTheWise
posted by Molesome at 1:53 PM on August 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
Grogu has better moichandising potential. #YoghurtTheWise
posted by Molesome at 1:53 PM on August 24, 2023 [3 favorites]
I’m confused. When the bad guys take the map rubik’s ball to coastal stonehenge, is that supposed to be the same place where Star Lord gets it at the beginning of the first Guardians?
posted by snofoam at 6:04 PM on August 24, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by snofoam at 6:04 PM on August 24, 2023 [9 favorites]
is that supposed to be the same place where Star Lord gets it
Who?
posted by The Tensor at 9:46 PM on August 24, 2023 [6 favorites]
Who?
posted by The Tensor at 9:46 PM on August 24, 2023 [6 favorites]
Yeah, where did the whole Sabine being Force-sensitive thing come from? I loved Rebels, but Sabine is coming across pretty Mary Sue in this; kickass fighting skills, she can read the mysterious map without breaking a sweat, plus her hair is cool... And now she's Force-sensitive on top of everything else? Or meant to be?
I'm not getting the dislike of Hera. I'm happy enough with the actor who plays her. I think she needs to be a little lighter to counterbalance Ahsoka's sombre presence and Sabine's whole rebel without a cause thing.
posted by unicorn chaser at 2:34 AM on August 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm not getting the dislike of Hera. I'm happy enough with the actor who plays her. I think she needs to be a little lighter to counterbalance Ahsoka's sombre presence and Sabine's whole rebel without a cause thing.
posted by unicorn chaser at 2:34 AM on August 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm not getting the dislike of Hera. I'm happy enough with the actor who plays her. I think she needs to be a little lighter to counterbalance Ahsoka's sombre presence and Sabine's whole rebel without a cause thing.
I think for me it's a problem of direction more than acting (and I'll admit I'm certainly inclined to give Mary Elizabeth Winstead the benefit of the doubt here); Hera's scenes with Sabine and Ahsoka aren't quite conveying the established relationships as we knew them from Rebels, which to me feels like a case of Filoni maybe knowing how to fine-tune performances in a recording booth but not to a live actor in costume on a set.
posted by Strange Interlude at 10:38 AM on August 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
I think for me it's a problem of direction more than acting (and I'll admit I'm certainly inclined to give Mary Elizabeth Winstead the benefit of the doubt here); Hera's scenes with Sabine and Ahsoka aren't quite conveying the established relationships as we knew them from Rebels, which to me feels like a case of Filoni maybe knowing how to fine-tune performances in a recording booth but not to a live actor in costume on a set.
posted by Strange Interlude at 10:38 AM on August 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
> Hera's scenes with Sabine and Ahsoka aren't quite conveying the established relationships as we knew them from Rebels
This could be creatives struggling to transition a role, but the weird distance between our heroes might also be deliberate, given that a lot has happened to them since we last saw them in Rebels. Hera's a literal mom and flag officer now, Sabine and Ahsoka had their falling out...
posted by Sauce Trough at 12:57 PM on August 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
This could be creatives struggling to transition a role, but the weird distance between our heroes might also be deliberate, given that a lot has happened to them since we last saw them in Rebels. Hera's a literal mom and flag officer now, Sabine and Ahsoka had their falling out...
posted by Sauce Trough at 12:57 PM on August 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
I quite liked the scene where Ahsoka told Hera that Sabine wasn't ready, and Hera pushed back, asking how you know when someone's ready. MEW brought a bit of steel, and you could feel that this was General Syndulla saying, "I have thousands of people under my command and I evaluate them for 'readiness' all the time. On what basis are you telling me my sister-in-arms, the Mandalorian Sabine Wren, hero of the Rebellion, is 'not ready'?"
posted by The Tensor at 3:11 PM on August 25, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by The Tensor at 3:11 PM on August 25, 2023 [5 favorites]
Yeah, where did the whole Sabine being Force-sensitive thing come from?
Huyang makes some comment to Sabine about how she has less Force sensitivity than any Padawan he has ever known. If that's the way they're playing it, I'm a bit less bothered by it. Everyone has some ability to interact with the Force, but 99.9% of people can't do it much, and can't do it consciously. Sabine has a bit more than mundanes but much less than most Jedi; in the pre-Order 66 era, she wouldn't have been considered worth training.
I don't love it, but I can live with it.
I can’t remember if we ever saw Kanan’s body in Rebels,
Kanan was absolutely dead. That was the whole point of Ezra seeing him in the World Between Worlds. (And if they decided to resurrect him, they would recast him like they have all the live-action characters except for Sackoff.)
It was however a nice tip to Kanan when Sabine cut off her hair, although I'm always impressed at what a good styling job these characters can do with nothing more than a knife.
As an aside, I am mildly intrigued by the question: where is Luke during all this with the Sithy types running around? And where's Quinlan?
posted by suelac at 7:35 PM on August 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
Huyang makes some comment to Sabine about how she has less Force sensitivity than any Padawan he has ever known. If that's the way they're playing it, I'm a bit less bothered by it. Everyone has some ability to interact with the Force, but 99.9% of people can't do it much, and can't do it consciously. Sabine has a bit more than mundanes but much less than most Jedi; in the pre-Order 66 era, she wouldn't have been considered worth training.
I don't love it, but I can live with it.
I can’t remember if we ever saw Kanan’s body in Rebels,
Kanan was absolutely dead. That was the whole point of Ezra seeing him in the World Between Worlds. (And if they decided to resurrect him, they would recast him like they have all the live-action characters except for Sackoff.)
It was however a nice tip to Kanan when Sabine cut off her hair, although I'm always impressed at what a good styling job these characters can do with nothing more than a knife.
As an aside, I am mildly intrigued by the question: where is Luke during all this with the Sithy types running around? And where's Quinlan?
posted by suelac at 7:35 PM on August 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
If the estimated timeline is correct, Luke recently picked up Grogu and is attempting to train him.
posted by mikepop at 8:18 PM on August 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by mikepop at 8:18 PM on August 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
If the estimated timeline is correct, Luke recently picked up Grogu and is attempting to train him.
Eh, I still have my doubts that Mando season 1 begins as late as five years after Endor; I wouldn't be at all shocked if some more-official source ends up pronouncing otherwise.
But yeah, Gideon takes Grogu one episode after Ahsoka defeats Elsbeth on Corvus, and Luke takes Grogu not long thereafter, so what we have seen of Ahsoka so far is most likely simultaneous with the end of Mando season 2. Unless Elsbeth was on that prison transport for a weirdly long time.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 4:34 AM on August 26, 2023
Eh, I still have my doubts that Mando season 1 begins as late as five years after Endor; I wouldn't be at all shocked if some more-official source ends up pronouncing otherwise.
But yeah, Gideon takes Grogu one episode after Ahsoka defeats Elsbeth on Corvus, and Luke takes Grogu not long thereafter, so what we have seen of Ahsoka so far is most likely simultaneous with the end of Mando season 2. Unless Elsbeth was on that prison transport for a weirdly long time.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 4:34 AM on August 26, 2023
Really enjoying this! Nice to see some more of the New Republic in central worlds before everything goes to shit. Also it’s becoming clear that they are struggling immediately to make the transition from rebellion to government, and it’s making the sudden appearance of the First Order in the sequels more sensible. I like the actors and thought everything looked really good. Excited to see where it goes from here.
posted by dellsolace at 7:53 AM on August 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by dellsolace at 7:53 AM on August 27, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm enjoying this a lot, though I'm not feeling that Hera is quite right (though I enjoy MEW quite a bit). Ahsoka is properly world-weary. She's seen too much.
I feel fortunate to have seen about a quarter of Clone Wars and half of Rebels; I kinda feel I would have been missing a lot without some introduction to these characters.
It would be interesting to see some flashback of Sabine's apprenticeship. It's pretty obvious she's weak in the force, but that doesn't mean the philosophy and lightsaber training couldn't be beneficial to someone with her existing talents -- and might calm down her chaotic nature a little.
posted by lhauser at 9:48 AM on August 27, 2023
I feel fortunate to have seen about a quarter of Clone Wars and half of Rebels; I kinda feel I would have been missing a lot without some introduction to these characters.
It would be interesting to see some flashback of Sabine's apprenticeship. It's pretty obvious she's weak in the force, but that doesn't mean the philosophy and lightsaber training couldn't be beneficial to someone with her existing talents -- and might calm down her chaotic nature a little.
posted by lhauser at 9:48 AM on August 27, 2023
“Because you're a hologram.”
Ha, this droid sounds a lot like David Tennant, I chuckle to myself.
posted by hototogisu at 4:09 AM on August 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
Ha, this droid sounds a lot like David Tennant, I chuckle to myself.
posted by hototogisu at 4:09 AM on August 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I'm glad I caught up on the "important" Rebels episodes before this. So, were those Purgill in the clouds above MappyPlanet, or just mysterious shapes in the clouds?
I absolutely clapped like a trained seal when Chopper showed up. Tell me, fellow nerds, there's a fansub out there where Chopper is basically non-stop bitching about his barely concealed contempt for his human teammates, right?
The bigger question about Sabine for me is - _can_ a Mandalorian be a Jedi? I'd have figured that would be kinda outre, y'know? Or am I misunderstanding the history? Or is that one of those things that kind of went by the wayside in the past 30 years, what with Mandalore being glassed and the Jedi being wiped out.
Question about Huyang - if he's been teaching Jedi for thousands of years, how far back to the old republic does he go? Cheating and looking at the wiki, uh.. Quite a bit, huh. And still 75% of his original parts, huh? That's cool.
Anyway, it's been fun being someone who watched the supplemental material and actually catches all the little nods to the fans for a change. Governor Azadi! Loth-cats! ...which don't work for me. The animated ones had a sufficiently Cheshire Cat-ish lip and tooth line, giving them a superflat "snout" and upper lips for live-action is just weird for me.
(Shoot, I mean, the first two episodes focusing on Lothal just like Rebels. "Ah look, it's the same silly highway strip between the impossibly vertical city and the impossibly tall listening post that Ezra lived in! Awww, dag!")
posted by Kyol at 7:29 PM on August 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
I absolutely clapped like a trained seal when Chopper showed up. Tell me, fellow nerds, there's a fansub out there where Chopper is basically non-stop bitching about his barely concealed contempt for his human teammates, right?
The bigger question about Sabine for me is - _can_ a Mandalorian be a Jedi? I'd have figured that would be kinda outre, y'know? Or am I misunderstanding the history? Or is that one of those things that kind of went by the wayside in the past 30 years, what with Mandalore being glassed and the Jedi being wiped out.
Question about Huyang - if he's been teaching Jedi for thousands of years, how far back to the old republic does he go? Cheating and looking at the wiki, uh.. Quite a bit, huh. And still 75% of his original parts, huh? That's cool.
Anyway, it's been fun being someone who watched the supplemental material and actually catches all the little nods to the fans for a change. Governor Azadi! Loth-cats! ...which don't work for me. The animated ones had a sufficiently Cheshire Cat-ish lip and tooth line, giving them a superflat "snout" and upper lips for live-action is just weird for me.
(Shoot, I mean, the first two episodes focusing on Lothal just like Rebels. "Ah look, it's the same silly highway strip between the impossibly vertical city and the impossibly tall listening post that Ezra lived in! Awww, dag!")
posted by Kyol at 7:29 PM on August 29, 2023 [3 favorites]
It took until I listened to Joanna Robinson and Mallory Rubin on House of R to grasp the force potential for Sabine. During "Trials of the Darksaber" when Kanan is teaching her, Hera asks if Kanan's training isn't working because Sabine doesn't have the Force. Kanan says no, that every living being is connected to the Force, but Sabine is conflicted and not balanced. I didn't pick up on this at the time, but it could imply that Sabine may have a connection to the Force but she has been so far unable to draw upon it.
Additionally, it was pointed out that the last great Mandalorian Jedi, the creator of the Darksaber, was an ancestor of Sabine's, so theoretically, a little Force potential could have been passed down to her.
posted by Atreides at 9:21 AM on August 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
Additionally, it was pointed out that the last great Mandalorian Jedi, the creator of the Darksaber, was an ancestor of Sabine's, so theoretically, a little Force potential could have been passed down to her.
posted by Atreides at 9:21 AM on August 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
Ha, this droid sounds a lot like David Tennant, I chuckle to myself.
Dr. Huyang.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:34 PM on August 30, 2023 [4 favorites]
Dr. Huyang.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:34 PM on August 30, 2023 [4 favorites]
Oh, also also - is Sabine's Mandalorian armor full beskar, or is that up in the air? (I only saw maybe half of Rebels, to be fair...) I mean, if she were wearing the armor, that fight might've gone differently.
(Or does Beskar interrupt the flow of the midichlorians, maaaaaan.)
posted by Kyol at 1:59 PM on August 30, 2023
(Or does Beskar interrupt the flow of the midichlorians, maaaaaan.)
posted by Kyol at 1:59 PM on August 30, 2023
Nah, Sabine's armor is beskar and has been handed down through her family to her. If she had had it on, it would have deflected the lightsaber strike.
posted by Atreides at 2:17 PM on August 30, 2023
posted by Atreides at 2:17 PM on August 30, 2023
Oh good. I feel like I've nerd leveled up that I caught that.
posted by Kyol at 2:33 PM on August 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Kyol at 2:33 PM on August 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm calling it now, the other galaxy is the Milky Way and this will eventually lead to a Star Wars / MCU or some other Disney franchise crossover.
posted by automatronic at 3:58 PM on August 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by automatronic at 3:58 PM on August 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm calling it now, the other galaxy is the Milky Way and this will eventually lead to a Star Wars / MCU or some other Disney franchise crossover.
Right, but all eras of Star Wars canonically take place "a long time ago", so they wouldn't be able to interact with the present-day MCU. They might be able to hang out with The Eternals, but what would be the point?
posted by Strange Interlude at 7:39 AM on August 31, 2023 [1 favorite]
Right, but all eras of Star Wars canonically take place "a long time ago", so they wouldn't be able to interact with the present-day MCU. They might be able to hang out with The Eternals, but what would be the point?
posted by Strange Interlude at 7:39 AM on August 31, 2023 [1 favorite]
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Mrs. CoB thinks masked baddie is Ezra. I concede it's possible but I kind of hope it's some product of the Mount Tantiss operation.
posted by CheesesOfBrazil at 5:58 AM on August 23, 2023 [2 favorites]