Dark Matter: Entanglement Show Only
June 27, 2024 8:03 PM - Season 1, Episode 9 - Subscribe
The Dessens' world comes crashing down.
There will be a separate Books Included episode 9 post just in case there's any useful commentary to be had about what was different or better or worse or whatever. This one is for Show Only.
There will be a separate Books Included episode 9 post just in case there's any useful commentary to be had about what was different or better or worse or whatever. This one is for Show Only.
Glad they closed out the story.
Imagine if all the Jasons (sJason?) did a battle royale and mostly killed each other - what a crime scene to decode!
posted by porpoise at 9:48 PM on June 27 [1 favorite]
Imagine if all the Jasons (sJason?) did a battle royale and mostly killed each other - what a crime scene to decode!
posted by porpoise at 9:48 PM on June 27 [1 favorite]
I enjoyed the ending just because all of the surreal things I imagined would happen generally happened.
It's a giant problem that there's only one Jason2 though. Didn't he spend something like 14 months wandering the multiverse before he kidnapped Jason1? There should have been an endless stream of Jason2.x's showing up to try to kidnap him (thinking he's Jason1) and take his place.
I did like that Jason2 ended up saving them in the end. I spent a lot of time wondering when Jason1 would go off and become evil since he obviously had that potential, but instead Jason2 decided to stop being an ass.
posted by mmoncur at 10:17 PM on June 27
It's a giant problem that there's only one Jason2 though. Didn't he spend something like 14 months wandering the multiverse before he kidnapped Jason1? There should have been an endless stream of Jason2.x's showing up to try to kidnap him (thinking he's Jason1) and take his place.
I did like that Jason2 ended up saving them in the end. I spent a lot of time wondering when Jason1 would go off and become evil since he obviously had that potential, but instead Jason2 decided to stop being an ass.
posted by mmoncur at 10:17 PM on June 27
Very irresponsible of Jason(s) to cause an ecological disaster and then just leave to another dimension.
I like stories that don't treat inconvenient doppelgangers as disposable (e.g. Farscape, Fringe, Brothers in Arms), and I would love a story about the aftermath and cleanup of the giant Jason spill. I guess this is what fanfiction is for.
posted by confluency at 3:20 AM on June 28 [3 favorites]
I like stories that don't treat inconvenient doppelgangers as disposable (e.g. Farscape, Fringe, Brothers in Arms), and I would love a story about the aftermath and cleanup of the giant Jason spill. I guess this is what fanfiction is for.
posted by confluency at 3:20 AM on June 28 [3 favorites]
It's a giant problem that there's only one Jason2 though.
I kind of wanted to half-joke about this implying Jason2 must be so singular in focus that every action he takes is the action he always and only would have taken, and so he never splits. But...now the whole family is off traveling, so I'd bet a second season would need to just ignore the whole splitting concept from now on to keep a story moving forward. Ideally, then, they probably should have written in some reason why Jason1 was the only person to split up while in the box?
(Also, despite it breaking Chekov's ironclad rule about vials hung over the fireplace, it looks like I was mostly right about Amanda2's two vials being no more than a setup for a potential second season (though, in the moment, I later realized, it also let them better highlight Jason's only-two-vials-remaining-in-his-satchel ticking clock). I guess meeting up with Ryan means Amanda can now use her two vials to jumpstart production of more, is the idea.)
posted by nobody at 7:38 AM on June 28 [1 favorite]
I kind of wanted to half-joke about this implying Jason2 must be so singular in focus that every action he takes is the action he always and only would have taken, and so he never splits. But...now the whole family is off traveling, so I'd bet a second season would need to just ignore the whole splitting concept from now on to keep a story moving forward. Ideally, then, they probably should have written in some reason why Jason1 was the only person to split up while in the box?
(Also, despite it breaking Chekov's ironclad rule about vials hung over the fireplace, it looks like I was mostly right about Amanda2's two vials being no more than a setup for a potential second season (though, in the moment, I later realized, it also let them better highlight Jason's only-two-vials-remaining-in-his-satchel ticking clock). I guess meeting up with Ryan means Amanda can now use her two vials to jumpstart production of more, is the idea.)
posted by nobody at 7:38 AM on June 28 [1 favorite]
Actually they did solve the problem this way, because now there will be a similarly infinite stream of Danielas and Charlies out there in the multiverse, so they just have to get that drug manufactured and keep looking. Eventually every universe will be overrun with Jasons, Danielas, and Charlies, their combined mass in causing the heat death of every universe, finally putting an end to the horror.
posted by dis_integration at 7:39 AM on June 28 [5 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 7:39 AM on June 28 [5 favorites]
It's a giant problem that there's only one Jason2 though.
It is for sure. For what it's worth, he said this in a recent AMA:
This kinda is a writing rules thing that applies more to World Building in Novels. At some point I just have to narrow the story to a comprehensible POV so people can enjoy an actual story. So, when plotting the book and later the show we made some "rules" for the world, one of which is that there will only ever be one Jason2...ever. My fear in going down the rabbit hole of all "valid" options is that its just not a relatable story anymore.
posted by ftm at 8:24 AM on June 28 [1 favorite]
It is for sure. For what it's worth, he said this in a recent AMA:
This kinda is a writing rules thing that applies more to World Building in Novels. At some point I just have to narrow the story to a comprehensible POV so people can enjoy an actual story. So, when plotting the book and later the show we made some "rules" for the world, one of which is that there will only ever be one Jason2...ever. My fear in going down the rabbit hole of all "valid" options is that its just not a relatable story anymore.
posted by ftm at 8:24 AM on June 28 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately, I think that the relatable story ship sailed when we first saw an alternative Jason1 and Amanda and it became clear that the box travellers did not exist "outside" of reality and were themselves subject to the same infinite splitting.
This is a fundamental problem I have with this kind of premise. Nothing really matters; everything is arbitrary. "Our" Jason1 is practically indistinguishable from a lot of the other Jasons; he was just lucky enough to get to Daniela first, and become cemented as "her" Jason. Why does it matter that one Jason1 got his happy ending, when an infinite number of Jasons1 did not? They're the same guy!
Also, for every significant thing that happened in this episode, there are clearly alternate worlds (filled with copies of all these Jasons!) where something else happened. So why are any of the events important?
I prefer parallel universe stories when the number of universes is constrained in some way, or at least it's difficult or impossible to access a universe with specific parameters. Without those constraints, you'll always end up in this situation.
posted by confluency at 12:10 PM on June 28 [2 favorites]
This is a fundamental problem I have with this kind of premise. Nothing really matters; everything is arbitrary. "Our" Jason1 is practically indistinguishable from a lot of the other Jasons; he was just lucky enough to get to Daniela first, and become cemented as "her" Jason. Why does it matter that one Jason1 got his happy ending, when an infinite number of Jasons1 did not? They're the same guy!
Also, for every significant thing that happened in this episode, there are clearly alternate worlds (filled with copies of all these Jasons!) where something else happened. So why are any of the events important?
I prefer parallel universe stories when the number of universes is constrained in some way, or at least it's difficult or impossible to access a universe with specific parameters. Without those constraints, you'll always end up in this situation.
posted by confluency at 12:10 PM on June 28 [2 favorites]
Why does it matter that one Jason1 got his happy ending, when an infinite number of Jasons1 did not? They're the same guy!
Agreed, it was pretty hard to see this as a "happy" ending when Jason, Daniela, and Charlie walk past a room full of Jasons to get in the box. Every Jason in the room is innocent, every one was kidnapped and has spent a long time trying to get Daniela and Charlie back, and a lot of them have suffered MORE than original Jason1 getting there.
The sole reason Jason1 deserves getting his family back is that the writers told us he's the original one...
posted by mmoncur at 3:03 PM on June 28
Agreed, it was pretty hard to see this as a "happy" ending when Jason, Daniela, and Charlie walk past a room full of Jasons to get in the box. Every Jason in the room is innocent, every one was kidnapped and has spent a long time trying to get Daniela and Charlie back, and a lot of them have suffered MORE than original Jason1 getting there.
The sole reason Jason1 deserves getting his family back is that the writers told us he's the original one...
posted by mmoncur at 3:03 PM on June 28
With infinite worlds there's an infinite number where there were thousands of Jason2's kidnapping each other and an infinite number like this one where it was just one. It does make it all seem insignificant unless you look at it as the story of just one of the Jason1's that got a happy ending, and for us as the audience, he's the one we've followed through the timelines.
The only think special about him is that it's his path we tracked.
posted by Pryde at 6:15 PM on June 28 [2 favorites]
The only think special about him is that it's his path we tracked.
posted by Pryde at 6:15 PM on June 28 [2 favorites]
I think the only way this story makes sense is if it’s looked at as a romance, complete with happily ever after, and not as sci-fi. Take out the romance and nothing makes sense - the world building only serves to create the circumstances under which Jason is removed from his family and works toward being reunited again. I was extremely frustrated with the show until I came to this realization, and then I could kinda start enjoying it.
posted by eekernohan at 5:55 AM on June 29 [1 favorite]
posted by eekernohan at 5:55 AM on June 29 [1 favorite]
Yeah I don't think we are supposed to be digging deep into the reality of it, it's just there for fun and for highlighting the relationships. Sort of like with Mr. & Mrs. Smith (though I think that was way more focused).
However it is fun to marvel at the very silly universe.
Like, Cbarlie opening the door at the end seems to be obviously about him starting to make life decisions, but with with his family there, to help him discover what wondrous world he can create or something. At the same time, letting a teenager open a effin cube door seems like a bad idea to me.
posted by fleacircus at 8:30 PM on July 1 [2 favorites]
However it is fun to marvel at the very silly universe.
Like, Cbarlie opening the door at the end seems to be obviously about him starting to make life decisions, but with with his family there, to help him discover what wondrous world he can create or something. At the same time, letting a teenager open a effin cube door seems like a bad idea to me.
posted by fleacircus at 8:30 PM on July 1 [2 favorites]
Also any hope I had that Daniela (and we viewers) would be unsure she had the right Jason were pretty immediately dashed.
I did love the chat room though. I wish the messages had been a little more readable. I liked the other Jasons chewing out the Rambo Jason who rammed his car into the precious family, the only universe where J&D's relationship works lmao.
posted by fleacircus at 2:42 PM on July 2 [2 favorites]
I did love the chat room though. I wish the messages had been a little more readable. I liked the other Jasons chewing out the Rambo Jason who rammed his car into the precious family, the only universe where J&D's relationship works lmao.
posted by fleacircus at 2:42 PM on July 2 [2 favorites]
> I think the only way this story makes sense is if it’s looked at as a romance, complete with happily ever after, and not as sci-fi.
I've watched a *lot* of multiverse shows, and, well, the theme of "family and relationships" is *extremely heavy* in them.
posted by Pronoiac at 6:31 PM on July 3 [3 favorites]
I've watched a *lot* of multiverse shows, and, well, the theme of "family and relationships" is *extremely heavy* in them.
posted by Pronoiac at 6:31 PM on July 3 [3 favorites]
Jason, always beating himself up. He's his own worst enemy.
Just to check, do you think it's impolite to listen to people talking to themselves?
posted by Pronoiac at 6:35 PM on July 3 [2 favorites]
Just to check, do you think it's impolite to listen to people talking to themselves?
posted by Pronoiac at 6:35 PM on July 3 [2 favorites]
confluency: It's a giant problem that there's only one Jason2 though.
Other problem: Did they say how family-not-science Jason got to have The Box in his leg of the Trousers of Time where he decided not to build The Box? Especially when he is reasonably assumed to be the Single Great Figure of History capable of making The Box?
nobody: despite it breaking Chekov's ironclad rule about vials hung over the fireplace ... Amanda2's two vials [are] no more than a setup for a potential second season ... [and] meeting up with Ryan means Amanda can now use her two vials to jumpstart production of more, is the idea
I like the idea that choose-compassion-cosmos already has both the chemicals and The Box, and chooses compassion when they encounter refugees who've misused The Box and the vials.
posted by k3ninho at 1:38 AM on September 6
Other problem: Did they say how family-not-science Jason got to have The Box in his leg of the Trousers of Time where he decided not to build The Box? Especially when he is reasonably assumed to be the Single Great Figure of History capable of making The Box?
nobody: despite it breaking Chekov's ironclad rule about vials hung over the fireplace ... Amanda2's two vials [are] no more than a setup for a potential second season ... [and] meeting up with Ryan means Amanda can now use her two vials to jumpstart production of more, is the idea
I like the idea that choose-compassion-cosmos already has both the chemicals and The Box, and chooses compassion when they encounter refugees who've misused The Box and the vials.
posted by k3ninho at 1:38 AM on September 6
A bit late to the viewing party - didn’t intend to watch the full series but now that I have, think the show leaned into the tragedy of it. The many Jasons realizing the sacrifice they needed to make. And yes, the main special thing about our Jason (besides thinking up the cigar offense) is that we were the ones who observed his story, a little bit of a callback to Shrodinger’s paradox.
posted by popsciolist at 12:24 AM on September 23 [2 favorites]
posted by popsciolist at 12:24 AM on September 23 [2 favorites]
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(I mean I say "tolerably" because my spouse was like "WHERE CAN THEY GO?!??!" and I'm like I dunno, maybe they'll find sleestaks out there.)
I do kind of want a followup coda of a police officer discovering the dozen-ish hothead rambo Jason corpses at the mansion and the struggles of the peaceful Jasons to integrate into society, but that's mostly a thought experiment more than worthwhile TV, I think.
The mansion was a familiar shooting location, but I couldn't exactly put my finger on where I've seen it before.
posted by Kyol at 8:13 PM on June 27 [2 favorites]