Slow Horses: Hello Goodbye Show Only
October 9, 2024 9:01 AM - Season 4, Episode 6 - Subscribe
Impossible decisions are faced and sacrifices are made.
I cannot stand the death in this one. One of my favorite characters in the show. Sad.
posted by dis_integration at 10:51 AM on October 9, 2024 [4 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 10:51 AM on October 9, 2024 [4 favorites]
So sad!! And “He loved you, and he wanted you to love yourself”! Crying
posted by ellieBOA at 11:15 AM on October 9, 2024 [10 favorites]
posted by ellieBOA at 11:15 AM on October 9, 2024 [10 favorites]
They dropped the name “Karla”. Another hint that this show is in the same universe as Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy?
posted by 1970s Antihero at 12:26 PM on October 9, 2024 [3 favorites]
posted by 1970s Antihero at 12:26 PM on October 9, 2024 [3 favorites]
River and Harkness have their chit-chat in The Lighterman next to Regent's Canal, you can see The Guardian offices and the incomplete Google Landscraper through the windows, and that grenade came dangerously close to blowing up Word on the Water.
posted by Molesome at 1:44 PM on October 9, 2024
posted by Molesome at 1:44 PM on October 9, 2024
“Sex market.”
The suspense over who would handle the gun in the office - David, Catherine, Moira - was hilarious and nerve-wracking, as I didn't trust any of them
posted by Pronoiac at 6:01 PM on October 9, 2024 [2 favorites]
The suspense over who would handle the gun in the office - David, Catherine, Moira - was hilarious and nerve-wracking, as I didn't trust any of them
posted by Pronoiac at 6:01 PM on October 9, 2024 [2 favorites]
Well Sunny Times Home left me sobbing. That was definitely written by someone who’s been through it.
posted by ursus_comiter at 9:15 PM on October 9, 2024 [9 favorites]
posted by ursus_comiter at 9:15 PM on October 9, 2024 [9 favorites]
Well Sunny Times Home left me sobbing. That was definitely written by someone who’s been through it.
Of course he has one of his rare lucid states when he's being left there.
Of course.
Brutal.
posted by coriolisdave at 9:24 PM on October 9, 2024 [8 favorites]
Of course he has one of his rare lucid states when he's being left there.
Of course.
Brutal.
posted by coriolisdave at 9:24 PM on October 9, 2024 [8 favorites]
Well Sunny Times Home left me sobbing. That was definitely written by someone who’s been through it.
Heartbreaking!
posted by ellieBOA at 3:53 AM on October 10, 2024 [2 favorites]
Heartbreaking!
posted by ellieBOA at 3:53 AM on October 10, 2024 [2 favorites]
Slow Horses Got the Chance to Get Comfortable [Vulture / Archive]
posted by ellieBOA at 5:56 AM on October 10, 2024
posted by ellieBOA at 5:56 AM on October 10, 2024
Love that Taverner and Lamb are arguing about compensation before the body's fully cold.
My SO and I were talking about the TV show "The Old Man" with Jeff Bridges, John Lithgow, and Alia Shawkat (don't recommend, somehow). She called it "My Three Dads", and tbh it applies to this season of Slow Horses as well. I guess River picked the stinky jerk dad. Even previous seasons were a little River-heavy IMHO, and this was more so. I don't hate River but I'd rather have more going on with the other characters who seemed to be given very little this season.
TBH I kinda lost the blackmail plots a bit. Hugo Weaving's motivations for the killing seem very personal, but it was a hired job, and the "why is this happening?" didn't seem to make any sense and so it didn't feel like there was anywhere to go. Then it didn't matter because Weaving had the super ultra hand of trump cards that called it all into question anyway. Like if he had that pull, did all of his previous actions make sense? I'm not sure.
On a lesser scale, Moira's blackmail of "Galahad" also didn't seem to make a lot of sense to me. She was bumped to Slough House because she was exposed to blackmail material and I guess she made a fuss about it but she didn't know who Galahad was, which seems unlikely, then it's just easily resolved. I did like Whelan's "that's all you want?!" laugh reaction though.
posted by fleacircus at 2:11 PM on October 10, 2024 [1 favorite]
My SO and I were talking about the TV show "The Old Man" with Jeff Bridges, John Lithgow, and Alia Shawkat (don't recommend, somehow). She called it "My Three Dads", and tbh it applies to this season of Slow Horses as well. I guess River picked the stinky jerk dad. Even previous seasons were a little River-heavy IMHO, and this was more so. I don't hate River but I'd rather have more going on with the other characters who seemed to be given very little this season.
TBH I kinda lost the blackmail plots a bit. Hugo Weaving's motivations for the killing seem very personal, but it was a hired job, and the "why is this happening?" didn't seem to make any sense and so it didn't feel like there was anywhere to go. Then it didn't matter because Weaving had the super ultra hand of trump cards that called it all into question anyway. Like if he had that pull, did all of his previous actions make sense? I'm not sure.
On a lesser scale, Moira's blackmail of "Galahad" also didn't seem to make a lot of sense to me. She was bumped to Slough House because she was exposed to blackmail material and I guess she made a fuss about it but she didn't know who Galahad was, which seems unlikely, then it's just easily resolved. I did like Whelan's "that's all you want?!" laugh reaction though.
posted by fleacircus at 2:11 PM on October 10, 2024 [1 favorite]
Well Sunny Times Home left me sobbing. That was definitely written by someone who’s been through it.
Couldn't agree more. The bed in his room was exactly right and the tray. Jonathan Pryce's face and demeanor in that scene were perfect. That scene might have been his best acting in the whole series. "You promised me."
posted by gladly at 3:57 PM on October 10, 2024 [8 favorites]
Couldn't agree more. The bed in his room was exactly right and the tray. Jonathan Pryce's face and demeanor in that scene were perfect. That scene might have been his best acting in the whole series. "You promised me."
posted by gladly at 3:57 PM on October 10, 2024 [8 favorites]
It felt a little unfinished to me compared to previous seasons. Maybe I just wanted to see Whelan eat a little more shit.
posted by wierdo at 4:40 PM on October 10, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by wierdo at 4:40 PM on October 10, 2024 [1 favorite]
> It felt a little unfinished to me compared to previous seasons. Maybe I just wanted to see Whelan eat a little more shit.
Yeah you definitely wanted to see him get his comeuppance, and that was not in the cards. I'm assuming he's going to be a fixture in the next season, and Taverner is not going to let him get away with being a cunt (said britishly, so not as offensive)
posted by dis_integration at 5:01 PM on October 10, 2024 [2 favorites]
Yeah you definitely wanted to see him get his comeuppance, and that was not in the cards. I'm assuming he's going to be a fixture in the next season, and Taverner is not going to let him get away with being a cunt (said britishly, so not as offensive)
posted by dis_integration at 5:01 PM on October 10, 2024 [2 favorites]
Well that was great. I didn't realize this was the end of the season so it hit hard to me.
I love River's Daddy Issues on complete display. The very start of the show has a title card with a shot of David, Lamb, and River. Three profiles in a row, grandfather, metaphorical father, son.
And then the actual plot where it's revealed Harkness is River's father. And River outwits him and captures him. Then the heartbreaking scene at Sunny Times, betraying his grandfather and actual father to keep him safe. And finally sitting at the pub with Lamb, his new metaphorical father, sharing a whisky in unhealthy but companionable silence. Just a gutting portrayal of masculinity and fatherhood and remarkably poignant for a show that's basically a silly spy show.
Lamb is a shitty father figure but also maybe the one who has the most to offer
This show is a lot smarter than it seems.
posted by Nelson at 9:06 PM on October 10, 2024 [11 favorites]
I love River's Daddy Issues on complete display. The very start of the show has a title card with a shot of David, Lamb, and River. Three profiles in a row, grandfather, metaphorical father, son.
And then the actual plot where it's revealed Harkness is River's father. And River outwits him and captures him. Then the heartbreaking scene at Sunny Times, betraying his grandfather and actual father to keep him safe. And finally sitting at the pub with Lamb, his new metaphorical father, sharing a whisky in unhealthy but companionable silence. Just a gutting portrayal of masculinity and fatherhood and remarkably poignant for a show that's basically a silly spy show.
Lamb is a shitty father figure but also maybe the one who has the most to offer
This show is a lot smarter than it seems.
posted by Nelson at 9:06 PM on October 10, 2024 [11 favorites]
Why was the kill order on River rescinded? I feel like I missed a Whelan scene or some dialogue leading to that.
posted by bcwinters at 7:44 AM on October 11, 2024
posted by bcwinters at 7:44 AM on October 11, 2024
I think there was too much chaos going on in that confrontation.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 3:07 PM on October 11, 2024
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 3:07 PM on October 11, 2024
Well Flyte is head dog and on the scene giving orders. The're confused at first but I think once the grenade goes off and she leads the way they just accept her authority completely.
posted by fleacircus at 5:20 PM on October 11, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by fleacircus at 5:20 PM on October 11, 2024 [1 favorite]
From the incompetence index:
> One of my favorite moments of this episode: Louisa more or less single-handedly overruling Claude’s shoot-to-kill order on River by running up to Flyte and doing the equivalent of a frustrated parent saying “Hey! Knock it off!” to a child who is misbehaving in public.
posted by Pronoiac at 6:12 PM on October 11, 2024 [3 favorites]
> One of my favorite moments of this episode: Louisa more or less single-handedly overruling Claude’s shoot-to-kill order on River by running up to Flyte and doing the equivalent of a frustrated parent saying “Hey! Knock it off!” to a child who is misbehaving in public.
posted by Pronoiac at 6:12 PM on October 11, 2024 [3 favorites]
It felt a little unfinished to me compared to previous seasons.
I agree, this was definitely more of a season of Big Feelings than it was about a really clean arc of spycraft stuff, though there was some of that. I hope we see more of Flyte, she's great. And gosh Marcus, so rough. His gambling saves the day, but he doesn't make it out of it.
That was definitely written by someone who’s been through it.
Agree and yet, I felt they used Pryce's dementia (or whatever is going on) sort of in a plot way and I didn't love it. Like he was there with answers when they needed him to be lucid (maybe) but then addled and can't be left alone at other times. I know that's very realistic to how these things go, having been through it with a friend's dad recently, but it felt a little ghoulish, though Pryce was amazing, as always. This was the "River doing what needs to be done" scene in a lot of ways, his hardest job yet, I guess?
posted by jessamyn at 1:05 PM on October 12, 2024 [2 favorites]
I agree, this was definitely more of a season of Big Feelings than it was about a really clean arc of spycraft stuff, though there was some of that. I hope we see more of Flyte, she's great. And gosh Marcus, so rough. His gambling saves the day, but he doesn't make it out of it.
That was definitely written by someone who’s been through it.
Agree and yet, I felt they used Pryce's dementia (or whatever is going on) sort of in a plot way and I didn't love it. Like he was there with answers when they needed him to be lucid (maybe) but then addled and can't be left alone at other times. I know that's very realistic to how these things go, having been through it with a friend's dad recently, but it felt a little ghoulish, though Pryce was amazing, as always. This was the "River doing what needs to be done" scene in a lot of ways, his hardest job yet, I guess?
posted by jessamyn at 1:05 PM on October 12, 2024 [2 favorites]
I think having River stuck in France for most of the series and not interacting with the rest of them gave it a sort of disengaged feel, like it was not really getting going and then was over.
posted by biffa at 4:24 PM on October 12, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by biffa at 4:24 PM on October 12, 2024 [2 favorites]
Well Sunny Times Home left me sobbing
The detail that the home is specifically intended for ex-Park colleagues, opens the way for an “Even Slower Horses” side-project.
There have been some amazingly shot action scenes throughout this series. I love that Lamb’s apparently randomly collected whisky bottle (chosen in preference to a large wad of cash) gets put to good strategic use.
posted by rongorongo at 12:57 AM on October 13, 2024 [1 favorite]
The detail that the home is specifically intended for ex-Park colleagues, opens the way for an “Even Slower Horses” side-project.
There have been some amazingly shot action scenes throughout this series. I love that Lamb’s apparently randomly collected whisky bottle (chosen in preference to a large wad of cash) gets put to good strategic use.
posted by rongorongo at 12:57 AM on October 13, 2024 [1 favorite]
The ending felt like a near copy of Lord of War, which has almost identical dialogue and framing as arms dealer (Cage) haughtily tells the Interpol agent (Hawke) that "someone is going to come through the door" with an important message and that they are going to walk out free (while the various government agencies cover everything up).
(The film isn't on fanfare since it came out in 2005. Maybe time for a rewatch!)
posted by autopilot at 1:13 AM on October 13, 2024
(The film isn't on fanfare since it came out in 2005. Maybe time for a rewatch!)
posted by autopilot at 1:13 AM on October 13, 2024
The detail that the home is specifically intended for ex-Park colleagues, opens the way for an “Even Slower Horses” side-project.
Slow Horses as a prequel to Thursday Murder Club? Coming to a screen near you shortly. Coincidentally, the dementia suffering husband of an ex-spy will be played by Jonathan Pryce.
posted by biffa at 8:24 AM on October 13, 2024 [2 favorites]
Slow Horses as a prequel to Thursday Murder Club? Coming to a screen near you shortly. Coincidentally, the dementia suffering husband of an ex-spy will be played by Jonathan Pryce.
posted by biffa at 8:24 AM on October 13, 2024 [2 favorites]
Oh I'm thinking a Waiting for God tie-in. Imagine Slow Horses with a laugh track.
posted by Nelson at 8:36 AM on October 13, 2024
posted by Nelson at 8:36 AM on October 13, 2024
bcwinters: "Why was the kill order on River rescinded? I feel like I missed a Whelan scene or some dialogue leading to that."
I wondered this myself. I think it was strategically defensible (for someone who wanted an excuse to eliminate him) to issue the kill order while he was in the custody of Harkness and/or his goons for a number of reasons. Even if you don't know that Harkness and Cartwright are related… he's a boss-level manipulator and River has sensitive information. It'd be a dumb, First Desk sort of move, but it could probably be justified to the Home Secretary.
Once Harkness no longer regards him as a hostage and has made a break for the train station alone, then there's no cover for wanting River dead.
---
Anyway, I share some of the feelings of others upthread. It's not that it's unforeseen or ridiculous for Harkness to be seen as untouchable because of the dirt he has on various folks, but that's the sort of dumb blowback shit that's been a crucial plot point in previous seasons. Here it's mentioned practically in passing.
One of the functions of Slough House is to work against this sort of short-sighted, self-perpetuating thinking. They surround the perpetrator at the end of Series 1 to prevent him from being killed by the Dogs. River lets his grandfather burn Footprint in the fireplace in Series 3 but has made a copy on the sly. It's important to the show that the Slow Horses aren't just fuckups; their position on the fringe allows them to more easily have proper consciences that aren't poisoned by the groupthink that takes place at the Park.
In this series, everyone seems to shrug at the idea that Harkness will be back out on the street. Even if it couldn't have been prevented altogether, I'd have loved some sort of minor rebellion like the ones described above.
---
I've lived about one one-hundredth of what River had to do at the end; my mother and grandmother had much larger slices of it. It feels callous when David says “River, you promised me!” and River just ignores it; my headcanon is that they'd probably had that discussion about 20 times already offscreen and River didn't have the energy to litigate it again. (My grandmother put up a note next to my grandfather's recliner with responses to all his recurring questions — this is your home; we don't have a car anymore, so we don't have to make a car payment; we are retired and don't need to go to work; et cetera. I don't think it made much of a difference.)
--
I was imagining that River's mother would at least appear in a single scene. I don't have a great sense of what her deal is yet. I get why she would be estranged from David, but I don't have a sense of why she would be as uninvolved in River's life as she appears to be. It probably wouldn't even be on my radar if not for the fact that she had a brief phone conversation with some character (I forget who) and seemed annoyed that David never dropped her a line.
posted by savetheclocktower at 8:56 PM on October 13, 2024 [1 favorite]
I wondered this myself. I think it was strategically defensible (for someone who wanted an excuse to eliminate him) to issue the kill order while he was in the custody of Harkness and/or his goons for a number of reasons. Even if you don't know that Harkness and Cartwright are related… he's a boss-level manipulator and River has sensitive information. It'd be a dumb, First Desk sort of move, but it could probably be justified to the Home Secretary.
Once Harkness no longer regards him as a hostage and has made a break for the train station alone, then there's no cover for wanting River dead.
---
Anyway, I share some of the feelings of others upthread. It's not that it's unforeseen or ridiculous for Harkness to be seen as untouchable because of the dirt he has on various folks, but that's the sort of dumb blowback shit that's been a crucial plot point in previous seasons. Here it's mentioned practically in passing.
One of the functions of Slough House is to work against this sort of short-sighted, self-perpetuating thinking. They surround the perpetrator at the end of Series 1 to prevent him from being killed by the Dogs. River lets his grandfather burn Footprint in the fireplace in Series 3 but has made a copy on the sly. It's important to the show that the Slow Horses aren't just fuckups; their position on the fringe allows them to more easily have proper consciences that aren't poisoned by the groupthink that takes place at the Park.
In this series, everyone seems to shrug at the idea that Harkness will be back out on the street. Even if it couldn't have been prevented altogether, I'd have loved some sort of minor rebellion like the ones described above.
---
I've lived about one one-hundredth of what River had to do at the end; my mother and grandmother had much larger slices of it. It feels callous when David says “River, you promised me!” and River just ignores it; my headcanon is that they'd probably had that discussion about 20 times already offscreen and River didn't have the energy to litigate it again. (My grandmother put up a note next to my grandfather's recliner with responses to all his recurring questions — this is your home; we don't have a car anymore, so we don't have to make a car payment; we are retired and don't need to go to work; et cetera. I don't think it made much of a difference.)
--
I was imagining that River's mother would at least appear in a single scene. I don't have a great sense of what her deal is yet. I get why she would be estranged from David, but I don't have a sense of why she would be as uninvolved in River's life as she appears to be. It probably wouldn't even be on my radar if not for the fact that she had a brief phone conversation with some character (I forget who) and seemed annoyed that David never dropped her a line.
posted by savetheclocktower at 8:56 PM on October 13, 2024 [1 favorite]
Harkness trying to get back to St Pancras struck me as a little odd. Its not like you can just rock up and the train pulls up and you're gone. Its an international border crossing point with a multi stage process and a limited number of desks for checking passengers through.
posted by biffa at 3:09 AM on October 14, 2024
posted by biffa at 3:09 AM on October 14, 2024
> I was imagining that River's mother would at least appear in a single scene.
Ah yeah that was definitely Chekhov's phone call, until it wasn't. I was 100% expecting River to talk to his Mom about some of this, but maybe they were trying to just get across how central gramps was in River's life, as really his only parent.
posted by dis_integration at 11:18 AM on October 14, 2024
Ah yeah that was definitely Chekhov's phone call, until it wasn't. I was 100% expecting River to talk to his Mom about some of this, but maybe they were trying to just get across how central gramps was in River's life, as really his only parent.
posted by dis_integration at 11:18 AM on October 14, 2024
I missed the significance of the final scene with River and Lamb. It looked like Lamb had filled out River's field report for him 'to account for his whereabouts' - was this for bonus money? Something else?
(just Googled; yes this was Lamb's best attempt at sentimentality - it's for bonus pay and a shared drink)
posted by jquinby at 6:18 AM on October 28, 2024
(just Googled; yes this was Lamb's best attempt at sentimentality - it's for bonus pay and a shared drink)
posted by jquinby at 6:18 AM on October 28, 2024
Harkness trying to get back to St Pancras struck me as a little odd. Its not like you can just rock up and the train pulls up and you're gone. Its an international border crossing point with a multi stage process and a limited number of desks for checking passengers through.
And even if the Magical Border Crossing somehow occurred, it's not like he could just hop off at the next exit and shake a tail. There's like what, 2 and a half hours of him stuck on the Eurostar for Taverner to call her equal in the French security apparatus to say "hey you might wanna apprehend this guy at Gare du Nord, he's arriving at 9, thanks"
That said, my wife didn't think he was intending to head back to France, he was burning / had burned down his operation there and was starting over. I don't know the geography well enough to tell if St Pancras was a reasonable place for him to hop on the underground, but sure, maybe.
I mean, I'm sure it boils down to the production having gone to the trouble of setting up St. Pancras as a shooting location for River's arrival, so they may as well use it for Harkness' departure.
posted by Kyol at 7:35 PM on November 20, 2024 [1 favorite]
And even if the Magical Border Crossing somehow occurred, it's not like he could just hop off at the next exit and shake a tail. There's like what, 2 and a half hours of him stuck on the Eurostar for Taverner to call her equal in the French security apparatus to say "hey you might wanna apprehend this guy at Gare du Nord, he's arriving at 9, thanks"
That said, my wife didn't think he was intending to head back to France, he was burning / had burned down his operation there and was starting over. I don't know the geography well enough to tell if St Pancras was a reasonable place for him to hop on the underground, but sure, maybe.
I mean, I'm sure it boils down to the production having gone to the trouble of setting up St. Pancras as a shooting location for River's arrival, so they may as well use it for Harkness' departure.
posted by Kyol at 7:35 PM on November 20, 2024 [1 favorite]
I don't know the geography well enough to tell if St Pancras was a reasonable place for him to hop on the underground
It is, but he's in the wrong place for it--those tables he's sitting in are a level above the main entrance to the station, a bunch of shopping, and access to the Eurostar, and I think (it's been a while since I was there) two levels above access to the Underground.
The area he's in contains a lot of restaurants, a bar or two, and a few platforms for cross-country services. (I've caught trains from there to Sheffield a couple of times.)
You can get a better idea of the layout in this picture. We're standing on the top level, facing away from the main entrances and towards the rear of the station. The Eurostar platforms are on the right, and the seats where Harkness was sitting are just next to them. They're walled off, though--you access them from international departures down on the lower level. Over on the left, just past that Searcy's bar, you can just catch the departure boards for the East Midlands Railway platforms that I was talking about earlier.
It's a gorgeous station, and I love the Eurostar, but getting to the Underground from where that scene was shot would be a good five-to-ten-minute walk at least.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 3:21 AM on November 21, 2024
It is, but he's in the wrong place for it--those tables he's sitting in are a level above the main entrance to the station, a bunch of shopping, and access to the Eurostar, and I think (it's been a while since I was there) two levels above access to the Underground.
The area he's in contains a lot of restaurants, a bar or two, and a few platforms for cross-country services. (I've caught trains from there to Sheffield a couple of times.)
You can get a better idea of the layout in this picture. We're standing on the top level, facing away from the main entrances and towards the rear of the station. The Eurostar platforms are on the right, and the seats where Harkness was sitting are just next to them. They're walled off, though--you access them from international departures down on the lower level. Over on the left, just past that Searcy's bar, you can just catch the departure boards for the East Midlands Railway platforms that I was talking about earlier.
It's a gorgeous station, and I love the Eurostar, but getting to the Underground from where that scene was shot would be a good five-to-ten-minute walk at least.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 3:21 AM on November 21, 2024
It is, but he's in the wrong place for it--those tables he's sitting in are a level above the main entrance to the station, a bunch of shopping, and access to the Eurostar, and I think (it's been a while since I was there) two levels above access to the Underground.
On the other hand, if you're trying to shake a tail by stopping when you're being chased, doing it somewhere where you can get a glass of wine delivered at the press of a button isn't half bad.
posted by Kyol at 12:07 PM on November 22, 2024 [2 favorites]
On the other hand, if you're trying to shake a tail by stopping when you're being chased, doing it somewhere where you can get a glass of wine delivered at the press of a button isn't half bad.
posted by Kyol at 12:07 PM on November 22, 2024 [2 favorites]
I missed the significance of the final scene with River and Lamb. It looked like Lamb had filled out River's field report for him 'to account for his whereabouts' - was this for bonus money? Something else?
I think it was in part that, but also gave them both cover for River going rogue in the first place. I’m sure Lamb wrote it up as they were working together from the start, and River was following his orders.
posted by Pryde at 6:12 PM on November 29, 2024 [1 favorite]
I think it was in part that, but also gave them both cover for River going rogue in the first place. I’m sure Lamb wrote it up as they were working together from the start, and River was following his orders.
posted by Pryde at 6:12 PM on November 29, 2024 [1 favorite]
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posted by 1970s Antihero at 9:51 AM on October 9, 2024