Mad Men: New Business
April 12, 2015 9:00 PM - Season 7, Episode 9 - Subscribe
Roger gives Don some unwanted advice. Peggy and Stan disagree over an account's personnel. Harry asks for Don's blessing.
I hope Jennifer's lawyer took Harry to the cleaners.
posted by rewil at 9:06 PM on April 12, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by rewil at 9:06 PM on April 12, 2015 [9 favorites]
This was a confusing episode. I feel like many of the things I want these last episodes to be about got muddied or obfuscated. Megan is back, which, why? Stan gets a plotline, also why? The whole episode was oversexed in a very gross way too which I guess is on brand for the 70s. The waitress is a great character but Don just bolts when she tells him she left her family? IDK. Someone help me understand how any of that ties in to the stellar beginning last week.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:11 PM on April 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:11 PM on April 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
Don didn't bolt. Diana sent him away. She didn't want what he represented.
posted by dry white toast at 9:13 PM on April 12, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by dry white toast at 9:13 PM on April 12, 2015 [7 favorites]
Megan and her mother move furniture. Don gives out more presents. The office has a darkroom.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:14 PM on April 12, 2015 [20 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:14 PM on April 12, 2015 [20 favorites]
Jiminy Christmas!
posted by flyingsquirrel at 9:14 PM on April 12, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by flyingsquirrel at 9:14 PM on April 12, 2015 [9 favorites]
It just seemed like they are writing the waitress character out and I really wanted her to be important somehow.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:15 PM on April 12, 2015
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:15 PM on April 12, 2015
Megan and her mom and her sister sniping at each other - oh my god, I was simultaneously laughing and cringing. That was pure gold. I'm not sure how Megan and Don went from what seemed to be a relatively peaceful breakup to this - unless mom has been working on her behind the scenes. And Megan gets a big check - and the ability to struggle along in limbo with her acting career, never having to worry about money. She's never going to get another big break.
Harry continues to somehow out-creep an office full of drunken adulterers.
I'm not super interested in Don and Di.
posted by PussKillian at 9:19 PM on April 12, 2015 [8 favorites]
Harry continues to somehow out-creep an office full of drunken adulterers.
I'm not super interested in Don and Di.
posted by PussKillian at 9:19 PM on April 12, 2015 [8 favorites]
Linda Holmes says it best:
"@nprmonkeysee: I'm sure glad we're spending the sixth from the last episode ever with THESE particular people. #MadMen"
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:19 PM on April 12, 2015 [6 favorites]
"@nprmonkeysee: I'm sure glad we're spending the sixth from the last episode ever with THESE particular people. #MadMen"
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:19 PM on April 12, 2015 [6 favorites]
Don's attraction to the waitress made Mr. Squirrel wonder if he's returning to his Dick Whitman side... which made me wonder if the show will end with him ditching the Don Draper persona and just becoming (or returning to) who he is: Dick Whitman.
posted by flyingsquirrel at 9:20 PM on April 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by flyingsquirrel at 9:20 PM on April 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
True. Don is giving everything away. And now doesn't even have furniture. He could be considering a fresh start. Or just being done with it all.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:28 PM on April 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:28 PM on April 12, 2015 [3 favorites]
I was, I dunno, kind of underwhelmed by this episode. Just seemed like the show and everyone in it were falling back into old habits. Don's back to having short-lived affairs that seem meaningful at the time but are totally forgotten two episodes later. And having trouble dealing with his ex-wife, who is bitchy at him for reasons only tangentially relating to him. Roger's back to screwing Marie even though he knows it's a bad idea. Harry Crane is being a sleazeball (not that he ever really stopped I guess). Peggy is back to being uninterested in sexytimes and sneering at Stan for the fact that he very much is. It all just felt...overly familiar to me. Like even though the specifics were slightly altered in this episode, I've seen all these people go through these motions and have all these same basic arguments before.
Except the argument between Megan and her sister. That was new stuff and pretty good. For me I think it even helped some aspects of Don and Megan's relationship click into place retroactively. But that was what, like two minutes out of the entire episode?
I dunno if this is terrible blasphemy, but...I think I might actually be ready for Mad Men to end, you guys. :\
posted by mstokes650 at 9:29 PM on April 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
Except the argument between Megan and her sister. That was new stuff and pretty good. For me I think it even helped some aspects of Don and Megan's relationship click into place retroactively. But that was what, like two minutes out of the entire episode?
I dunno if this is terrible blasphemy, but...I think I might actually be ready for Mad Men to end, you guys. :\
posted by mstokes650 at 9:29 PM on April 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
I think it speaks to how gonzo Marie's character is that I legitimately thought she might pay the movers by blowing them.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:35 PM on April 12, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 9:35 PM on April 12, 2015 [9 favorites]
When Don left Betty and Henry's house, he looked back with a touch of sadness? Wistfulness? Like he was saying goodbye, without even being conscious of it.
posted by flyingsquirrel at 9:36 PM on April 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by flyingsquirrel at 9:36 PM on April 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
I'm not sure how Megan and Don went from what seemed to be a relatively peaceful breakup to this
Yes, I wondered about this too (the "You don't owe me anything" phone call) until it was pointed out by the observant people I watch with that Megan's had a rough time, not getting any gigs, and now really NEEDS the money, and she'd just had the most disgusting offer ever from Harry Crane of all people--who she was really hopeful could have maybe helped her out professionally. (And btw the people who said last season Megan would end up on the casting couch pronto if she wasn't already owe her an apology!!) But anyway, I think she's in a tough financial place. And maybe Don HAD been holding onto her a little bit by doling out the allowance instead of just signing the papers.
I will say I was disappointed in her tirade at Don though. When Roger quoted Jane ("you stole my youth! my career! etc. etc"), it was so gross--his perception apparently being that all ex-wives are vindictive gold-diggers. And Megan never HAD been like that, so to me it was disappointing when she let loose on Don with basically the same speech Roger described.
NOT that Don didn't deserve it--just that I always thought Megan had seen the good there was in Don. She was wise to know when she needed to move on, but had managed to do it with dignity and some tenderness, which seemed typical of her. The dissolution of their marriage last season was poignant, and it was sad to see it come to this.
I mean Megan was always capable of lighting into Don when she was rightly pissed, and that was great; I just didn't like it that this episode put her in the same category as Jane Sterling.
posted by torticat at 9:48 PM on April 12, 2015 [10 favorites]
Yes, I wondered about this too (the "You don't owe me anything" phone call) until it was pointed out by the observant people I watch with that Megan's had a rough time, not getting any gigs, and now really NEEDS the money, and she'd just had the most disgusting offer ever from Harry Crane of all people--who she was really hopeful could have maybe helped her out professionally. (And btw the people who said last season Megan would end up on the casting couch pronto if she wasn't already owe her an apology!!) But anyway, I think she's in a tough financial place. And maybe Don HAD been holding onto her a little bit by doling out the allowance instead of just signing the papers.
I will say I was disappointed in her tirade at Don though. When Roger quoted Jane ("you stole my youth! my career! etc. etc"), it was so gross--his perception apparently being that all ex-wives are vindictive gold-diggers. And Megan never HAD been like that, so to me it was disappointing when she let loose on Don with basically the same speech Roger described.
NOT that Don didn't deserve it--just that I always thought Megan had seen the good there was in Don. She was wise to know when she needed to move on, but had managed to do it with dignity and some tenderness, which seemed typical of her. The dissolution of their marriage last season was poignant, and it was sad to see it come to this.
I mean Megan was always capable of lighting into Don when she was rightly pissed, and that was great; I just didn't like it that this episode put her in the same category as Jane Sterling.
posted by torticat at 9:48 PM on April 12, 2015 [10 favorites]
I'm having a hard time with the emotive qualities of Megan's giant hair.
posted by palomar at 9:50 PM on April 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by palomar at 9:50 PM on April 12, 2015 [4 favorites]
Hey how come we haven't seen Sally yet? Grmpf.
posted by flyingsquirrel at 9:54 PM on April 12, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by flyingsquirrel at 9:54 PM on April 12, 2015 [10 favorites]
True. Don is giving everything away. And now doesn't even have furniture. He could be considering a fresh start. Or just being done with it all.
But that million doesn't really hurt his fortune, does it? If Joan got $1.5million out of the McCann deal (and Pete had 10%!!)-- then the senior partners would have made much more than that, right? Shouldn't Don be worth well over $5-7million? Megan said he was already a millionaire when she met him. I don't remember the numbers from back then. I know it's been discussed here lots of times--anyone remember what Don should be worth?
posted by torticat at 9:56 PM on April 12, 2015
But that million doesn't really hurt his fortune, does it? If Joan got $1.5million out of the McCann deal (and Pete had 10%!!)-- then the senior partners would have made much more than that, right? Shouldn't Don be worth well over $5-7million? Megan said he was already a millionaire when she met him. I don't remember the numbers from back then. I know it's been discussed here lots of times--anyone remember what Don should be worth?
posted by torticat at 9:56 PM on April 12, 2015
I've never disliked the Megan character to the degree that others have, but this episode really had me wishing that all divorce arrangements had been handled off-screen between seasons. I did find it funny that Don was willing to give away such a large chunk of his fortune just to keep Megan off the Harry Crane casting couch.
I popped for the Arnold and Sylvia cameo. "How many girls have you had in this elevator?" "That's not what that was". No, it's much, much weirder.
posted by The Gooch at 9:58 PM on April 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
I popped for the Arnold and Sylvia cameo. "How many girls have you had in this elevator?" "That's not what that was". No, it's much, much weirder.
posted by The Gooch at 9:58 PM on April 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
Betty's going for her Master's degree in Psychology? Psychology?? That's one of the funniest things I ever heard on Mad Men. "People love to talk to me" and "They seek me out to share their confidences." My God, is she seriously considering being a therapist? Don: "That should be fascinating for everyone involved." Bwahaha.
posted by cwest at 10:13 PM on April 12, 2015 [16 favorites]
posted by cwest at 10:13 PM on April 12, 2015 [16 favorites]
I popped for the Arnold and Sylvia cameo. "How many girls have you had in this elevator?" "That's not what that was". No, it's much, much weirder.
LOL. Yes, it would be hard to characterize exactly WHAT that was.
Question about Arnold--last we saw of him, if I'm not mistaken, he was offering his heartfelt thanks for Don's helping keep his son out of combat. In the scene when Sally screamed "I hate you" at Don or something like that and ran away from the dinner table?
I don't think Arnold knew about the affair back then, did he? Did Sylvia maybe come clean at some point, which would explain Arnold's nasty comments to Don in the elevator this ep? Or was he just drunk?
I loved Diana and Sylvia side by side in the elevator, demonstrating so clearly Don's "type," at least on a physical level. Wonder if we'll see Suzanne the school teacher this season, or Midge... or the weird airplane woman whose husband died of thirst.
posted by torticat at 10:15 PM on April 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
LOL. Yes, it would be hard to characterize exactly WHAT that was.
Question about Arnold--last we saw of him, if I'm not mistaken, he was offering his heartfelt thanks for Don's helping keep his son out of combat. In the scene when Sally screamed "I hate you" at Don or something like that and ran away from the dinner table?
I don't think Arnold knew about the affair back then, did he? Did Sylvia maybe come clean at some point, which would explain Arnold's nasty comments to Don in the elevator this ep? Or was he just drunk?
I loved Diana and Sylvia side by side in the elevator, demonstrating so clearly Don's "type," at least on a physical level. Wonder if we'll see Suzanne the school teacher this season, or Midge... or the weird airplane woman whose husband died of thirst.
posted by torticat at 10:15 PM on April 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
Hey how come we haven't seen Sally yet?
Kiernan Shipka must have some big scenes coming up in the episodes ahead. Especially with Don. She's a great actress and it's going to be good I'm sure.
posted by cwest at 10:28 PM on April 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
Kiernan Shipka must have some big scenes coming up in the episodes ahead. Especially with Don. She's a great actress and it's going to be good I'm sure.
posted by cwest at 10:28 PM on April 12, 2015 [2 favorites]
Kiernan Shipka must have some big scenes coming up in the episodes ahead. Especially with Don. She's a great actress and it's going to be good I'm sure.
Absolutely. Also here's hoping some of those scenes will involve GLEN!! Whose friendship, episodic as it is, seems to be one of the nicest things that ever happened to Sally.
I fully recognize mine is a minority opinion.
posted by torticat at 10:40 PM on April 12, 2015 [6 favorites]
Absolutely. Also here's hoping some of those scenes will involve GLEN!! Whose friendship, episodic as it is, seems to be one of the nicest things that ever happened to Sally.
I fully recognize mine is a minority opinion.
posted by torticat at 10:40 PM on April 12, 2015 [6 favorites]
That is the first time we have seen Torkelson, right? He was at the photo shoot explaining "Torkelson's Law" to three guys from Cinzano. We have heard his name several times and we know he got Clara pregnant, but I do believe that's the first time he has appeared on screen.
posted by cwest at 10:49 PM on April 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by cwest at 10:49 PM on April 12, 2015 [1 favorite]
someone's self insert mad men fanfic character got released into the canon
It was amazing
posted by The Whelk at 11:27 PM on April 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
It was amazing
posted by The Whelk at 11:27 PM on April 12, 2015 [5 favorites]
Two things, Diana was so ...1940s. Her rented room, her waitress cap, the film noir way she spoke. like of course Don's dream woman seems vacuum wrapped out of a detective pulp. A bad luck dame. further in time.
Also, how does he keep meeting dreamy mystery vaguely ethnic brunettes with a feeling of doom around them? Like that's a really specific type.
Pete said Jiminy Christmas. Pete was born a hundred years old.
Please note the very clear similarities between Stan's girlfriend and Peggy.
Marie will not be denied! Marie cares not for your happiness! Marie will take what she pleases! MARIE WILL NOT BE DENIED. She gets her own zany farce music!
Anyway Megan keeps all the stuff in storage until it gets opened in 2007 and kicks off the early 70s interior design trend.
The Harry arcane/Megan scene was so bad and on SO MANY DIFFERENT LEVELS. like not only was an awful proposition, it was an awful way of presenting it. Harry Crane is the actual worst.
I'd say the them of the episode was prositution but that's like, the entire show. How many times did they use the word "selling"?
And once again, with regard to Lady Frankenfurter Von Sex Genius, her whole ...deal. That photo shoot. I love it when mad men dips into the crazy art world of the time cause it's SO SPEFIFIC to an actual thing so it refuses cliche and trope.
posted by The Whelk at 11:34 PM on April 12, 2015 [14 favorites]
Also, how does he keep meeting dreamy mystery vaguely ethnic brunettes with a feeling of doom around them? Like that's a really specific type.
Pete said Jiminy Christmas. Pete was born a hundred years old.
Please note the very clear similarities between Stan's girlfriend and Peggy.
Marie will not be denied! Marie cares not for your happiness! Marie will take what she pleases! MARIE WILL NOT BE DENIED. She gets her own zany farce music!
Anyway Megan keeps all the stuff in storage until it gets opened in 2007 and kicks off the early 70s interior design trend.
The Harry arcane/Megan scene was so bad and on SO MANY DIFFERENT LEVELS. like not only was an awful proposition, it was an awful way of presenting it. Harry Crane is the actual worst.
I'd say the them of the episode was prositution but that's like, the entire show. How many times did they use the word "selling"?
And once again, with regard to Lady Frankenfurter Von Sex Genius, her whole ...deal. That photo shoot. I love it when mad men dips into the crazy art world of the time cause it's SO SPEFIFIC to an actual thing so it refuses cliche and trope.
posted by The Whelk at 11:34 PM on April 12, 2015 [14 favorites]
I legitimately thought she might pay the movers by blowing them.
There's also that half second when Megan realizes she's leaving her mother alone with two black guys and she has a Racist Moment Reflex.
posted by The Whelk at 11:37 PM on April 12, 2015 [9 favorites]
There's also that half second when Megan realizes she's leaving her mother alone with two black guys and she has a Racist Moment Reflex.
posted by The Whelk at 11:37 PM on April 12, 2015 [9 favorites]
One more observation before I go to bed, about Don's "type" when it comes to women. Which has a physical component, obviously, but also often a maternal one (Midge excepted).
Last episode Don said goodbye to Rachel and hello to Diana, who reminded him of someone (who? Rachel? Or maybe ALL the women he's connected with?). In season one (or two?) Rachel was appalled that Don would consider bailing on his family to run off with her. I think that was the end of their relationship.
It turns out Diana has actually bailed on her family. What a contrast with Rachel. But Don can relate to Diana--he bailed on his own family as a 20-something (and good lord, his own "family" bailed on him long before that) and started over. The difference is, Diana doesn't want to forget. She's doing some kind of penance (as Don observes) and actually doesn't want it to "shock [her] how much it never happened." She's spooked that Don actually did make her forget for a time.
I'm not sure what to make of this, just wanted to comment on the connections with Rachel and Peggy, from WAY back. I'm not too fond of this new character Diana, but I am curious whether she's gone for good after this episode, or whether she has actually has something to give to Don, damaged as both of them are.
posted by torticat at 11:44 PM on April 12, 2015 [7 favorites]
Last episode Don said goodbye to Rachel and hello to Diana, who reminded him of someone (who? Rachel? Or maybe ALL the women he's connected with?). In season one (or two?) Rachel was appalled that Don would consider bailing on his family to run off with her. I think that was the end of their relationship.
It turns out Diana has actually bailed on her family. What a contrast with Rachel. But Don can relate to Diana--he bailed on his own family as a 20-something (and good lord, his own "family" bailed on him long before that) and started over. The difference is, Diana doesn't want to forget. She's doing some kind of penance (as Don observes) and actually doesn't want it to "shock [her] how much it never happened." She's spooked that Don actually did make her forget for a time.
I'm not sure what to make of this, just wanted to comment on the connections with Rachel and Peggy, from WAY back. I'm not too fond of this new character Diana, but I am curious whether she's gone for good after this episode, or whether she has actually has something to give to Don, damaged as both of them are.
posted by torticat at 11:44 PM on April 12, 2015 [7 favorites]
Oh wait, no, I had two more questions.
Why is Mad Men not blowing up fanfare like it did last year?
And why did AMC say "Only 4 episodes left" at the end of this one? Shouldn't it be five?
posted by torticat at 11:58 PM on April 12, 2015
Why is Mad Men not blowing up fanfare like it did last year?
And why did AMC say "Only 4 episodes left" at the end of this one? Shouldn't it be five?
posted by torticat at 11:58 PM on April 12, 2015
One thing that struck me is that Diana mentioned the balcony and said, "You must spend a lot of time out there." If memory serves me correctly, the last time we saw Don out there, Vanilla Fudge was playing and he was quite depressed.
posted by ob1quixote at 12:10 AM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by ob1quixote at 12:10 AM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
What do you mean not blowing up Fanfare like last year? Didn't last weeks thread have >200 comments?
posted by mlis at 12:46 AM on April 13, 2015
posted by mlis at 12:46 AM on April 13, 2015
Also, you know what they say about people giving away their possessions.
posted by mlis at 12:47 AM on April 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by mlis at 12:47 AM on April 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
That episode was entirely underwhelming. The scene with Betty and the cameo from Sylvia and her husband were basically the highlights of the episode. I've always wanted Stan to get more screentime, but now?
I figured we'd see Megan again, but not like this. I wish she'd stayed in L.A.
I feel like a lot of Mad Men's second-episodes are a bit like this, but this one seemed particularly directionless.
Will have to think on it some more.
posted by crossoverman at 3:04 AM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I figured we'd see Megan again, but not like this. I wish she'd stayed in L.A.
I feel like a lot of Mad Men's second-episodes are a bit like this, but this one seemed particularly directionless.
Will have to think on it some more.
posted by crossoverman at 3:04 AM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
When is this episode set? Diana seems to have disappeared for a while, but surely Megan and Don's divorce wouldn't have dragged on for another year?
posted by crossoverman at 3:19 AM on April 13, 2015
posted by crossoverman at 3:19 AM on April 13, 2015
I spent the whole hour thinking Mimi Rogers was Mary Steenburgen.
Also, as I was falling asleep last night I thought, "Diana. DIE. ANNA." And then I was annoyed with Matt Weiner. (Then I was annoyed again thinking about the final shot of Don framed perfectly in the empty apartment, one of those METAPHORS he apparently thinks he needs to put right in front of us, so we can marvel at the symbolism.)
I'm enjoying the season so far but don't feel the need to talk about it like I have in the past. Maybe it's knowing it's going to end so soon, so there's less need for speculation.
posted by Sweetie Darling at 3:50 AM on April 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
Also, as I was falling asleep last night I thought, "Diana. DIE. ANNA." And then I was annoyed with Matt Weiner. (Then I was annoyed again thinking about the final shot of Don framed perfectly in the empty apartment, one of those METAPHORS he apparently thinks he needs to put right in front of us, so we can marvel at the symbolism.)
I'm enjoying the season so far but don't feel the need to talk about it like I have in the past. Maybe it's knowing it's going to end so soon, so there's less need for speculation.
posted by Sweetie Darling at 3:50 AM on April 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
When is this episode set?
Don's check to Megan is dated May 27, 1970.
posted by gubo at 4:15 AM on April 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
Don's check to Megan is dated May 27, 1970.
posted by gubo at 4:15 AM on April 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
Marie is such a viper. Megan's sister Marie France was such a hoot. The woman has the personality of a bag of wet flour. (Marie: "Let her cry in church all day.") How did Megan turn out to be the happy, empathetic person she was before her marriage in that family? How is it that Megan speaks English as though it's her first language while Marie France has a French accent? It also made no sense that Megan would chastise Don at the lawyer's office when she knew she'd just unwittingly wronged him by cleaning out his apartment. She was angry with her mother, sister, Roger, and Harry, not Don. What on earth is Megan even going to do with all that furniture? She doesn't have room for it in her house in L.A.
Don isn't giving everything away. Joan made over a million in the McCann merger, and she only had 5% of the company. Don had 20% or 26% or something like that, and he was, as Megan said, a millionaire before the merger.
Harry is such a disgusting pig. I want something really bad to happen to him in the next four episodes. And yes, I know he's divorced and he lost out on a partnership and a big windfall by a hair.... but I don't care. It's still not enough.
Can't say I'm too sorry Diana didn't last. If Don takes up with any of the women from his past, I hope it's Suzanne the schoolteacher.
Betty's going back to school! It'll be good for her I'm sure, but yeah, she would be a disaster as a psychologist.
Will Stan and Elaine break up now that he's both cheated on her and lied to her? And does this mean that Steggy can happen?
That Arnold and Sylvia encounter was weird. Does Arnold know or is he just an asshole when he's drunk?
posted by orange swan at 4:40 AM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Don isn't giving everything away. Joan made over a million in the McCann merger, and she only had 5% of the company. Don had 20% or 26% or something like that, and he was, as Megan said, a millionaire before the merger.
Harry is such a disgusting pig. I want something really bad to happen to him in the next four episodes. And yes, I know he's divorced and he lost out on a partnership and a big windfall by a hair.... but I don't care. It's still not enough.
Can't say I'm too sorry Diana didn't last. If Don takes up with any of the women from his past, I hope it's Suzanne the schoolteacher.
Betty's going back to school! It'll be good for her I'm sure, but yeah, she would be a disaster as a psychologist.
Will Stan and Elaine break up now that he's both cheated on her and lied to her? And does this mean that Steggy can happen?
That Arnold and Sylvia encounter was weird. Does Arnold know or is he just an asshole when he's drunk?
posted by orange swan at 4:40 AM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Arnold's always kind of known. But yes he is also drunk.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:55 AM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 4:55 AM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
The thing I really didn't like was that Arnold's shitty comments were much more aimed at Diana than at Don.
posted by orange swan at 4:56 AM on April 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by orange swan at 4:56 AM on April 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
Arnold is just yet anothe misogynistic asshole.
Dons trying to start over & save someone again. Thwarted. Hope this one doesn't suicide.
posted by tilde at 5:04 AM on April 13, 2015
Dons trying to start over & save someone again. Thwarted. Hope this one doesn't suicide.
posted by tilde at 5:04 AM on April 13, 2015
Sweetie Darling: "I spent the whole hour thinking Mimi Rogers was Mary Steenburgen. "
Or Meredith Viera.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:10 AM on April 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
Or Meredith Viera.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:10 AM on April 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
And why did AMC say "Only 4 episodes left" at the end of this one? Shouldn't it be five?
I was going to ask the same thing. Maybe they're going to do a "two-hour finale" that's really just two episodes aired on the same night, but gets advertised as one two-hour ep?
posted by dnash at 5:10 AM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I was going to ask the same thing. Maybe they're going to do a "two-hour finale" that's really just two episodes aired on the same night, but gets advertised as one two-hour ep?
posted by dnash at 5:10 AM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
No, there really are only four episodes left. There are 13 episodes in each season and we just watched episode no. 9.
posted by orange swan at 5:18 AM on April 13, 2015
posted by orange swan at 5:18 AM on April 13, 2015
Nooooooooo!!!!
posted by tilde at 5:20 AM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by tilde at 5:20 AM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
What I heard them say last week was "only five episodes left until the series finale." Also, I believe we get a bonus ep - there are 14 episodes total - seven in each half.
posted by Sweetie Darling at 5:27 AM on April 13, 2015
posted by Sweetie Darling at 5:27 AM on April 13, 2015
They said when they split the season that it would be 14 instead of 13...two 7 episode half-seasons. Didn't they?!?!?
posted by dry white toast at 5:28 AM on April 13, 2015
posted by dry white toast at 5:28 AM on April 13, 2015
IMDB and Wikipedia both say Season 7 is 14 episodes, the last airing on May 17. So I'm confused.
posted by dnash at 5:30 AM on April 13, 2015
posted by dnash at 5:30 AM on April 13, 2015
The Mad Men wiki Says the last episode airs May 17th, which means there are five episodes left.
They're saying 4 episodes until the finale
posted by dry white toast at 5:32 AM on April 13, 2015
They're saying 4 episodes until the finale
posted by dry white toast at 5:32 AM on April 13, 2015
Jinx
posted by dry white toast at 5:33 AM on April 13, 2015
posted by dry white toast at 5:33 AM on April 13, 2015
It was mentioned upthread but, "That should be fascinating for everyone involved," is entering the pantheon of great Mad Men quotes.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:52 AM on April 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 5:52 AM on April 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
Betty and psychology. I can't even. I think she just wants to know everyone's secrets.
Poor imaginary Gene. He never gets any lines. Nice milkshake, though. Don was saying goodbye. Henry pointedly turns his back on him and Betty follows cue.
So what was the new business --
Harry sleazed on Megan, not just sleazed on her but really wanted to pick her up from where Don dropped her. He's really thinking she's desperate, and "don't tell Don" was code for "I'm open to possibilities".
"You're going to rent pants?" And Burt Peterson showing up like a bad penny. Of course he'd end up at McCann (he's the accounts man on the cookies). Off screen, but he is back.
Torkelson just as scummy as we'd expected, and yes, first sighting.
Steggy could happen, except they are so grumpy at each other, as usual. She may be Copy Chief and he Art Director but she's still bossing him around and he hates it. The predatory artsy specialist thing was a nice change of pace, boy Peggy smacked Stan down hard, though, "She didn't as far with me". I half expected Ed to say "I'll be in my bunk", sitting there on that orange couch watching the byplay.
I don't know what time AMC flips the bit on MadMen but I was able to download it this morning at five AM.
posted by tilde at 6:38 AM on April 13, 2015
Poor imaginary Gene. He never gets any lines. Nice milkshake, though. Don was saying goodbye. Henry pointedly turns his back on him and Betty follows cue.
So what was the new business --
Harry sleazed on Megan, not just sleazed on her but really wanted to pick her up from where Don dropped her. He's really thinking she's desperate, and "don't tell Don" was code for "I'm open to possibilities".
"You're going to rent pants?" And Burt Peterson showing up like a bad penny. Of course he'd end up at McCann (he's the accounts man on the cookies). Off screen, but he is back.
Torkelson just as scummy as we'd expected, and yes, first sighting.
Steggy could happen, except they are so grumpy at each other, as usual. She may be Copy Chief and he Art Director but she's still bossing him around and he hates it. The predatory artsy specialist thing was a nice change of pace, boy Peggy smacked Stan down hard, though, "She didn't as far with me". I half expected Ed to say "I'll be in my bunk", sitting there on that orange couch watching the byplay.
I don't know what time AMC flips the bit on MadMen but I was able to download it this morning at five AM.
posted by tilde at 6:38 AM on April 13, 2015
Wow were people being shitty in this episodes toward Don without him doing anything bad (at least in this episode).
It's fun to picture Megan's little house crammed full with the totally out of place furniture from Don's apartment (especially the couches).
So Megan had two friends that went to Harry for help, but didn't understand what Harry would want in exchange? That seems overly naive for her character.
It feels like there's some significance to Don's red shirt (and Megan's similarly red dress), but I can't put my finger on it.
Why do they keep introducing new characters with so little time left? Diane, last week and Elaine and Pima this week (though maybe Pima was a one shot).
In some shots, Diane looked similar to Pete's obsession, Beth Dawes.
posted by drezdn at 6:40 AM on April 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
It's fun to picture Megan's little house crammed full with the totally out of place furniture from Don's apartment (especially the couches).
So Megan had two friends that went to Harry for help, but didn't understand what Harry would want in exchange? That seems overly naive for her character.
It feels like there's some significance to Don's red shirt (and Megan's similarly red dress), but I can't put my finger on it.
Why do they keep introducing new characters with so little time left? Diane, last week and Elaine and Pima this week (though maybe Pima was a one shot).
In some shots, Diane looked similar to Pete's obsession, Beth Dawes.
posted by drezdn at 6:40 AM on April 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
So do we think that Arnold didn't go to a new hospital because he got a transplant chance there?
posted by drezdn at 6:44 AM on April 13, 2015
posted by drezdn at 6:44 AM on April 13, 2015
So does Marie exact revenge on Don because she is mad at her husband?
posted by drezdn at 6:45 AM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by drezdn at 6:45 AM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
“It’s a wonder you don’t have syphilis.”
posted by drezdn at 6:51 AM on April 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 6:51 AM on April 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
tilde: "Henry pointedly turns his back on him and Betty follows cue."
In fairness, Henry greeted Don in a courteous manner, and Don didn't reply. Or even look at Henry, I think.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:58 AM on April 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
In fairness, Henry greeted Don in a courteous manner, and Don didn't reply. Or even look at Henry, I think.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:58 AM on April 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
I grew up in the 80s, but apparently my parents were awash in the 70s look that Mad Men is channeling now. I'm pretty sure my dad and uncles wore shirts like Don was wearing at the beginning of the episode, and we had a towel exactly like the one Don was covered with in Sally's bedroom.
posted by drezdn at 7:07 AM on April 13, 2015
posted by drezdn at 7:07 AM on April 13, 2015
My family didn't have much money and our home furnishings needed to last. I've recognized a number of props from Mad Men as being identical to items my family was using as late as the early 1990s. We too had similar towels to that one of Don's. The white coffeepot with the blue flower on the side that Joan's mother is holding when Joan and her husband declare their marriage over is the twin of one we had. And there was a turquoise glass decanter in Don and Megan's apartment that was exactly like one that we had.
posted by orange swan at 7:11 AM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by orange swan at 7:11 AM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
My grandparents had those glass grapes that were on Don's table.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:17 AM on April 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 7:17 AM on April 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
This episode was almost entirely devoted to showing how far women have advanced. All of the women in the episode were assertive and confident, save for Megan's sister, who seemed to be almost an example of the "old" feminine image/stereotype, crying about appearances and traditional roles. Even Don's secretary spoke to him as if she were his boss at times. Megan rebuking Harry's old-school attempt at bedding her was a pretty spot-on message that times have definitely changed. The capper was Marie emptying-out Don's apartment (and having Roger pay for it!) Sort of a "We've earned the right to take what's ours." message to men. Honestly, I loved this episode.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:55 AM on April 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 7:55 AM on April 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
That's a great take on it. And Don's giving in and paying Megan a ton seems like he's acknowledging his real role in the oppressive culture that Megan has been trying to break out of all along. It still all felt a little too Noises Off for me to really enjoy, and Diana doesn't seem to fit that theme (and if she doesn't reappear is a red herring plot point that annoys me for wasting my brain space on), but that does make a bunch of sense.
Oh and Shirley getting a promotion to being racist ol Roger's assistant = more progress.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:27 AM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oh and Shirley getting a promotion to being racist ol Roger's assistant = more progress.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:27 AM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also: From "What is a gay person? That cannot exist." to "I thought you were queer" and "She doesn't like men" in 10 years. A Sal re-ascendance must be imminent.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:29 AM on April 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 8:29 AM on April 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
If blue means death, Marie's bright blue sheath was an exclamation point. Had we ever had anyone wear that color before?
And Megan was in that powder blue mini with the accordion-pleated chiffon sleeves. It seemed so fresh and pretty the first time she wore it, and the heavy makeup and the wrinkled dress emphasized how much she felt she was scrambling.
I hated the Sylvia storyline, but it turns out I was pretty excited to see her in this context. Remember how Sylvia always wore black and white ensembles, like a nun or a waitress? It was fun to see Sylvia in that silvery beaded gown next to Di, who was literally wearing her waitress getup. I have a feeling Sylvia confessed everything to her husband, so now he's doubled down on his drinking, magnifying the wake of destruction that Don usually leaves after an affair is over.
And yeah, I honestly thought Marie was going to make an indecent proposal to the moving men.
posted by mochapickle at 8:41 AM on April 13, 2015
And Megan was in that powder blue mini with the accordion-pleated chiffon sleeves. It seemed so fresh and pretty the first time she wore it, and the heavy makeup and the wrinkled dress emphasized how much she felt she was scrambling.
I hated the Sylvia storyline, but it turns out I was pretty excited to see her in this context. Remember how Sylvia always wore black and white ensembles, like a nun or a waitress? It was fun to see Sylvia in that silvery beaded gown next to Di, who was literally wearing her waitress getup. I have a feeling Sylvia confessed everything to her husband, so now he's doubled down on his drinking, magnifying the wake of destruction that Don usually leaves after an affair is over.
And yeah, I honestly thought Marie was going to make an indecent proposal to the moving men.
posted by mochapickle at 8:41 AM on April 13, 2015
No way would Marie Calvet have propositioned the moving men. Maman Calvet has standards. She'll get the distinguished gentleman of her choice to give the moving men the required amount and then bang him.
posted by orange swan at 9:00 AM on April 13, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by orange swan at 9:00 AM on April 13, 2015 [13 favorites]
From TLO:
Its interesting that Bert was president without much more than Blankenship in the old Sterling Cooper days, then nothing in SCDP, but Roger has two secretaries (didn't Hamlin have only one?). I thought that was a bit weird, that his old secretary is so overworked now. Or maybe there's just extra effing around being part of McCann, more layers to futz through.
I'll have to watch the Henry and Don bit again. I think Henry is just as brief as he can get away with, and has been I think since he told Don to move his shit out of the Ossining house. Probably still grumpy about Don calling after the cancer scare as well. I'm so hoping for a light pole and Betty steps into her dead husband's seat and actually shines.
posted by tilde at 9:36 AM on April 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
Diana is almost hilarious in her moroseness and the heavy hair of tragedy that hangs over her. emphasis and FTFY mineAnd if were Torkelson I'd be outta the picture, too. She's well shut of him, and probably can't expect much from an asshole like that.
Its interesting that Bert was president without much more than Blankenship in the old Sterling Cooper days, then nothing in SCDP, but Roger has two secretaries (didn't Hamlin have only one?). I thought that was a bit weird, that his old secretary is so overworked now. Or maybe there's just extra effing around being part of McCann, more layers to futz through.
I'll have to watch the Henry and Don bit again. I think Henry is just as brief as he can get away with, and has been I think since he told Don to move his shit out of the Ossining house. Probably still grumpy about Don calling after the cancer scare as well. I'm so hoping for a light pole and Betty steps into her dead husband's seat and actually shines.
posted by tilde at 9:36 AM on April 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
I honestly thought the opening was another Don dream. Don, making milk shakes, in Betty and Henry's kitchen. It just seemed so surreal. And that red polo Don was wearing seemed to make it even more bizarre for some reason.
posted by Thorzdad at 9:40 AM on April 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 9:40 AM on April 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
A Sal re-ascendance must be imminent.
I wondered for a second if it we were about to see Sal at the photo shoot. It would be exactly the type of spot for him to re-appear.
posted by dry white toast at 10:07 AM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
I wondered for a second if it we were about to see Sal at the photo shoot. It would be exactly the type of spot for him to re-appear.
posted by dry white toast at 10:07 AM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
I do think Roger decided to work again after spending three years? more? lazing around. Caroline probably got quite accustomed to Roger being gone most of the time.
Seeing Don and Betty together in the kitchen having a mostly amiable conversation was nice, as was seeing Don interact with Gene. I sort of assumed that Don had turned Gene over to Henry the way he did Bobby for a time. I don't need to see more, but I'm glad he still has a relationship with his sons. Although I would love to see Gene get a different version of Don than Bobby or Sally got -- more honest, less tortured about his upbringing (no flashbacks!).
heavy hair of tragedy
I loved Elisabeth Reaser's hair!
Okay, Stan/Elaine/Pima/Peggy. Pima was hustling all of them, yes (Elaine by extension, I guess)? Do we think she's still a good photographer though? I don't think I understand why Peggy wouldn't hire her again - unless there's some unresolved Steggy stuff?
I wondered for a second if it we were about to see Sal at the photo shoot. It would be exactly the type of spot for him to re-appear.
If Sal comes back, and at this point, I seriously doubt he will, I would love to see Weiner cave to fanservice and give us an out-and-proud Sal, in his element as some art world something or other.
posted by gladly at 10:10 AM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Seeing Don and Betty together in the kitchen having a mostly amiable conversation was nice, as was seeing Don interact with Gene. I sort of assumed that Don had turned Gene over to Henry the way he did Bobby for a time. I don't need to see more, but I'm glad he still has a relationship with his sons. Although I would love to see Gene get a different version of Don than Bobby or Sally got -- more honest, less tortured about his upbringing (no flashbacks!).
heavy hair of tragedy
I loved Elisabeth Reaser's hair!
Okay, Stan/Elaine/Pima/Peggy. Pima was hustling all of them, yes (Elaine by extension, I guess)? Do we think she's still a good photographer though? I don't think I understand why Peggy wouldn't hire her again - unless there's some unresolved Steggy stuff?
I wondered for a second if it we were about to see Sal at the photo shoot. It would be exactly the type of spot for him to re-appear.
If Sal comes back, and at this point, I seriously doubt he will, I would love to see Weiner cave to fanservice and give us an out-and-proud Sal, in his element as some art world something or other.
posted by gladly at 10:10 AM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Roger and Marie having sex in the empty apartment was a call back to Roger and Jane having sex in her empty apartment. He paid for one apartment, and he paid for the other one to get emptied.
posted by dry white toast at 10:13 AM on April 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by dry white toast at 10:13 AM on April 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
I don't think I understand why Peggy wouldn't hire her again - unless there's some unresolved Steggy stuff?
Deep down, I think Peggy is still a pretty by-the-book person. Even though she's accomplished quite a lot, and well ahead of the curve for most women, she still, in many ways, a very repressed woman. There have been cracks in her armor at times, but she's still pretty buttoned-up.
I think Pima coming-on to her maybe did touch something inside, just a bit. But, when she discovered Pima did the same thing to Stan, I wonder if she didn't feel just a bit jilted or, at least, manipulated by Pima? (A sister trading in the same sort of sexual manipulation game as the men!) In any case, at the end of the day, Pima poisoned the well, as far as Peggy was concerned, both professionally and personally.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:29 AM on April 13, 2015 [8 favorites]
Deep down, I think Peggy is still a pretty by-the-book person. Even though she's accomplished quite a lot, and well ahead of the curve for most women, she still, in many ways, a very repressed woman. There have been cracks in her armor at times, but she's still pretty buttoned-up.
I think Pima coming-on to her maybe did touch something inside, just a bit. But, when she discovered Pima did the same thing to Stan, I wonder if she didn't feel just a bit jilted or, at least, manipulated by Pima? (A sister trading in the same sort of sexual manipulation game as the men!) In any case, at the end of the day, Pima poisoned the well, as far as Peggy was concerned, both professionally and personally.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:29 AM on April 13, 2015 [8 favorites]
Diana's hair was AMAZING! My hair was always this steamy, streaky mess after a shift at the cafe. I would have killed, killed, for hair like that!
I really like the Di storyline. She was grieving and didn't want to top grieving. Don, identifying with her, could have told her to embrace her new life and shock herself by how much she could make herself believe her past had never happened, but he didn't: He left her to grieve.
And maybe that's Don's problem: He's never grieved. Not his old life, not losing Adam, never really having a childhood. He's always dealt with it by moving on.
10 bucks we never see Megan again. It was a terrific sendoff, I thought.
posted by mochapickle at 10:30 AM on April 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
I really like the Di storyline. She was grieving and didn't want to top grieving. Don, identifying with her, could have told her to embrace her new life and shock herself by how much she could make herself believe her past had never happened, but he didn't: He left her to grieve.
And maybe that's Don's problem: He's never grieved. Not his old life, not losing Adam, never really having a childhood. He's always dealt with it by moving on.
10 bucks we never see Megan again. It was a terrific sendoff, I thought.
posted by mochapickle at 10:30 AM on April 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
This was great. They're closing doors they've opened previously, which is how you end things properly:
-Megan ends up taking money and things from Don, not out of a desire to gokddig but because of an inability to forward herself on her own acting merits and because of toxic interference from her mother. She's always straddled the line between decency and selling out, and now we know which side she lands on. Sad. She's young, still, though. She'll be okay even if we don't see it.
-Stan stays in a relationship which he knows is emotionally dishonest. Sorry, Steggy fans. He can't lose face and Peggy owns him. It's not even his account anymore.
-Don tries to escape with a ravenhaired beauty but his amorous motions are grits and our of step with the new emotionally honest times. This is the end of Don Draped: romantic fantasy. I agree that we're primed for a return to Dick Whitman.
-Betty going into psychology. Yay! What a dickpunch to Don. He started her down thatroad while believing she was vapid and empty. But nope. He's leaving his family in the care of another man.
I sure hope that this show doesn't end in Don's death (so trite and overdone) but it's kinda looking that way.
The important question: has Peggy been to Paris?
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:35 AM on April 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
-Megan ends up taking money and things from Don, not out of a desire to gokddig but because of an inability to forward herself on her own acting merits and because of toxic interference from her mother. She's always straddled the line between decency and selling out, and now we know which side she lands on. Sad. She's young, still, though. She'll be okay even if we don't see it.
-Stan stays in a relationship which he knows is emotionally dishonest. Sorry, Steggy fans. He can't lose face and Peggy owns him. It's not even his account anymore.
-Don tries to escape with a ravenhaired beauty but his amorous motions are grits and our of step with the new emotionally honest times. This is the end of Don Draped: romantic fantasy. I agree that we're primed for a return to Dick Whitman.
-Betty going into psychology. Yay! What a dickpunch to Don. He started her down thatroad while believing she was vapid and empty. But nope. He's leaving his family in the care of another man.
I sure hope that this show doesn't end in Don's death (so trite and overdone) but it's kinda looking that way.
The important question: has Peggy been to Paris?
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:35 AM on April 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
Also: the dream of the fisherman's wife on Rogers wall. Of course he would inherit that from Cooper, and what a perfect callback to the codfish ball.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:38 AM on April 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:38 AM on April 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
I thought this was a great episode. People seemed impatient with what it spent time on, but I don't think it was discursive. I don't think Diana is a red herring. She's serving a purpose in Don's arc, even if she doesn't re-appear. Don came to New York to escape the pain and shame of his old life. Diana came to New York to wallow in it. Don is surrounded by people who keep chasing things, running themselves into unhappiness. To take just one example, Joan: when I get married I'll be happy. When I become partner I'll be happy. When I cash in on my shares I'll be happy. You can do the same list with all the other characters. In Diana, he meets someone who isn't chasing happiness.
To me, THE central question that will be resolved as the series ends is, will Don finally stop running from himself? Diana is what that looks like. He needed to see it.
Also, the reason we're spending time on Ken and Stan and characters like that is that they need to start peeling off the more minor characters so they can focus on the central characters at the end. My bet is we've seen the last of Ken, Megan, maybe Stan. In the end we're going to be down to Don, Peggy, Roger, Joan, Pete, and probably Sally. And maybe Betty.
It really jumped out at me that we didn't see Sally when Don was visiting the Francis home. I get that the in-show explanation was that she's at school. To the extent that there will be any resolution to Don's arc, I think it rests entirely with Sally.
posted by dry white toast at 10:39 AM on April 13, 2015 [15 favorites]
To me, THE central question that will be resolved as the series ends is, will Don finally stop running from himself? Diana is what that looks like. He needed to see it.
Also, the reason we're spending time on Ken and Stan and characters like that is that they need to start peeling off the more minor characters so they can focus on the central characters at the end. My bet is we've seen the last of Ken, Megan, maybe Stan. In the end we're going to be down to Don, Peggy, Roger, Joan, Pete, and probably Sally. And maybe Betty.
It really jumped out at me that we didn't see Sally when Don was visiting the Francis home. I get that the in-show explanation was that she's at school. To the extent that there will be any resolution to Don's arc, I think it rests entirely with Sally.
posted by dry white toast at 10:39 AM on April 13, 2015 [15 favorites]
I sure hope that this show doesn't end in Don's death (so trite and overdone) but it's kinda looking that way.
Well, the opening credits are his silhouette falling from a building. It may not be as metaphorical as we think.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:40 AM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Well, the opening credits are his silhouette falling from a building. It may not be as metaphorical as we think.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:40 AM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also, I noticed that Don and Peggy haven't had a scene together in these two episodes. I wonder if the writers feel like that relationship was resolved with the two episodes at the end of last half-season and we're done with it.
posted by dry white toast at 10:43 AM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by dry white toast at 10:43 AM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think it's important that though Don drank in this episode, there were at least two characters (Arnold and Diane) who were way more sloshed than he was.
posted by drezdn at 10:47 AM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 10:47 AM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
To the extent that there will be any resolution to Don's arc, I think it rests entirely with Sally.
Well, the opening credits are his silhouette falling from a building. It may not be as metaphorical as we think.
Silvia and Sally show up at Don's office at the same time and Sally get's Pete's gun to shoot Silvia and ends up with Don knocked out the window.
posted by tilde at 10:48 AM on April 13, 2015
Well, the opening credits are his silhouette falling from a building. It may not be as metaphorical as we think.
Silvia and Sally show up at Don's office at the same time and Sally get's Pete's gun to shoot Silvia and ends up with Don knocked out the window.
posted by tilde at 10:48 AM on April 13, 2015
To the extent that there will be any resolution to Don's arc, I think it rests entirely with Sally.
I feel like Sally's arc with Don is complete in a way after their lovely dinner together last season. Sally loves Don and knows that he loves her, and she knows most of his deepest secrets. I'd like to see Sally's arc beyond Don and Betty - how does she escape the baggage she's left with from them? Does Sally have a chance at happiness? I suspect the honest answer is, hell no, so maybe it would be best if we just got a glimpse of where she's going.
Likewise with Don and Peggy -- I don't really need to see them together again after the lovely arc Weiner gave us with Burger Chef.
But Don definitely needs to come to terms with himself. My guess is that Weiner will give us one last Draper pitch - some reconciliation between Carousel and Hershey.
posted by gladly at 10:58 AM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I feel like Sally's arc with Don is complete in a way after their lovely dinner together last season. Sally loves Don and knows that he loves her, and she knows most of his deepest secrets. I'd like to see Sally's arc beyond Don and Betty - how does she escape the baggage she's left with from them? Does Sally have a chance at happiness? I suspect the honest answer is, hell no, so maybe it would be best if we just got a glimpse of where she's going.
Likewise with Don and Peggy -- I don't really need to see them together again after the lovely arc Weiner gave us with Burger Chef.
But Don definitely needs to come to terms with himself. My guess is that Weiner will give us one last Draper pitch - some reconciliation between Carousel and Hershey.
posted by gladly at 10:58 AM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
So does Marie exact revenge on Don because she is mad at her husband?
Yes, I think that's at least part of her anger at Don.
posted by cwest at 11:09 AM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yes, I think that's at least part of her anger at Don.
posted by cwest at 11:09 AM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Likewise with Don and Peggy -- I don't really need to see them together again after the lovely arc Weiner gave us with Burger Chef.
Agreed. I'd like to see Don reconciled with Joan, though. And Peggy reconciled with Joan, for that matter!
posted by torticat at 11:12 AM on April 13, 2015
Agreed. I'd like to see Don reconciled with Joan, though. And Peggy reconciled with Joan, for that matter!
posted by torticat at 11:12 AM on April 13, 2015
I do wonder what purchasing power a cool million had in 1970
posted by The Whelk at 11:23 AM on April 13, 2015
posted by The Whelk at 11:23 AM on April 13, 2015
Wooo
posted by The Whelk at 11:38 AM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by The Whelk at 11:38 AM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
The closest we get to a Don/Joan resolution might be her voting with the McCann side in "Waterloo."
posted by drezdn at 11:48 AM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by drezdn at 11:48 AM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
There has to be more story between Peggy and Don. The whole series really begins with her first day, so it would be weird to end it at without some sort of pivot that changes both Peggy and Don. What that is, I don't know.
I will pitch a fit if we don't see that gun again. But we know now that Weiner reads online chatter and reacts to it (HI MATT!). So maybe he is just going to mess with us and never bring it up.
posted by mochapickle at 11:54 AM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I will pitch a fit if we don't see that gun again. But we know now that Weiner reads online chatter and reacts to it (HI MATT!). So maybe he is just going to mess with us and never bring it up.
posted by mochapickle at 11:54 AM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Criminy--just when I thought that Marie was going to be the runaway unlikeable character of the episode, here comes Harry! What a jerk. (And yes, on this show, that's saying something.)
Okay, Stan/Elaine/Pima/Peggy.
Now that's a version of "Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice" I'd wanna see. (Huh...release date, 1969. I don't remember it being referenced on the show yet, though.)
Stan stays in a relationship which he knows is emotionally dishonest. Sorry, Steggy fans. He can't lose face and Peggy owns him. It's not even his account anymore.
Yeah, I'm afraid my Steggy shipping actually kinda died this episode.
I sure hope that this show doesn't end in Don's death (so trite and overdone) but it's kinda looking that way.
I actually wouldn't mind it so very much, but I'm more of the opinion that we might see "Don's" death, but not necessarily Dick Whitman's.
I feel like Sally's arc with Don is complete in a way after their lovely dinner together last season. [...] Likewise with Don and Peggy -- I don't really need to see them together again after the lovely arc Weiner gave us with Burger Chef.
There are still five episodes left to fill, y'all. Just because we haven't seen some of the character combinations yet doesn't mean we won't.
posted by ChrisTN at 12:01 PM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Okay, Stan/Elaine/Pima/Peggy.
Now that's a version of "Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice" I'd wanna see. (Huh...release date, 1969. I don't remember it being referenced on the show yet, though.)
Stan stays in a relationship which he knows is emotionally dishonest. Sorry, Steggy fans. He can't lose face and Peggy owns him. It's not even his account anymore.
Yeah, I'm afraid my Steggy shipping actually kinda died this episode.
I sure hope that this show doesn't end in Don's death (so trite and overdone) but it's kinda looking that way.
I actually wouldn't mind it so very much, but I'm more of the opinion that we might see "Don's" death, but not necessarily Dick Whitman's.
I feel like Sally's arc with Don is complete in a way after their lovely dinner together last season. [...] Likewise with Don and Peggy -- I don't really need to see them together again after the lovely arc Weiner gave us with Burger Chef.
There are still five episodes left to fill, y'all. Just because we haven't seen some of the character combinations yet doesn't mean we won't.
posted by ChrisTN at 12:01 PM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Just before the season started, someone tweeted at Richard Sommer (the actor who plays Harry), "no offense, but I hope your character gets hit by a bus this season." To which he replied, "Oh, none taken."
I appreciate that he's quite clear on what a complete tool he plays.
posted by dry white toast at 12:08 PM on April 13, 2015 [12 favorites]
I appreciate that he's quite clear on what a complete tool he plays.
posted by dry white toast at 12:08 PM on April 13, 2015 [12 favorites]
Maybe my biggest moment of disgust with this episode is this: I didn't like that little weak sigh of Stan's after he realizes what a soulless fool he's been to fall for Pima's manipulation of his disintegrating artistic ego. But that's probably my problem--it does fit with the zeitgeist Weiner is emphasizing here: the dissolution of ideals. Advertising used to challenge business interests in service of the customer, at least a little, now it has been fully embraced by the corporations as the most important tool of selling. Art, comedy, even political revolution has been co-opted by the machine. Last week it was Ken, this week it is Stan who caves, failing to live up to the values he espouses. Marie smashes her virtue like a vase, jealous that her daughter gets to escape while she remains imprisoned by her pious narcissism. Harry has achieved full Mugwump. Peggy and Don still hold out. But for how long?
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:36 PM on April 13, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:36 PM on April 13, 2015 [9 favorites]
I feel like Sally's arc with Don is complete in a way after their lovely dinner together last season.
Given that all of the Mad Men teaser ads AMC has shown include Kiernan Shipka in them, I'm pretty certain we'll be seeing Sally somewhere along the line.
..........
Following on to my "this episode was all about the women" thought, I'm not sure what it says that Joan was nowhere to be found in this episode.
posted by Thorzdad at 12:48 PM on April 13, 2015
Given that all of the Mad Men teaser ads AMC has shown include Kiernan Shipka in them, I'm pretty certain we'll be seeing Sally somewhere along the line.
..........
Following on to my "this episode was all about the women" thought, I'm not sure what it says that Joan was nowhere to be found in this episode.
posted by Thorzdad at 12:48 PM on April 13, 2015
Harry has achieved full Mugwump.
He's...become a Republican political activist who bolted from the United States Republican Party by supporting Democratic candidate Grover Cleveland in the United States presidential election of 1884?
posted by Chrysostom at 12:54 PM on April 13, 2015 [10 favorites]
He's...become a Republican political activist who bolted from the United States Republican Party by supporting Democratic candidate Grover Cleveland in the United States presidential election of 1884?
posted by Chrysostom at 12:54 PM on April 13, 2015 [10 favorites]
Given that all of the Mad Men teaser ads AMC has shown include Kiernan Shipka in them, I'm pretty certain we'll be seeing Sally somewhere along the line.
Of course, but we've seen Sally frequently without Don. I'm more interested in what happens to Sally after she's come to terms with Don and Betty than seeing her deal with them again.
posted by gladly at 12:56 PM on April 13, 2015
Of course, but we've seen Sally frequently without Don. I'm more interested in what happens to Sally after she's come to terms with Don and Betty than seeing her deal with them again.
posted by gladly at 12:56 PM on April 13, 2015
Peggy and Don still hold out. But for how long?
Exactly what is Don "holding out" on? He's been a walking billboard for mainstream lifestyle since the moment we met him. He never latched onto any of the "ideals" that were contested in the 60s. He steadfastly avoided the fight.
posted by dry white toast at 12:58 PM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Exactly what is Don "holding out" on? He's been a walking billboard for mainstream lifestyle since the moment we met him. He never latched onto any of the "ideals" that were contested in the 60s. He steadfastly avoided the fight.
posted by dry white toast at 12:58 PM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
He's...become a Republican political activist who bolted from the United States Republican Party by supporting Democratic candidate Grover Cleveland in the United States presidential election of 1884?
Yes, but, also, this.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:58 PM on April 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
Yes, but, also, this.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:58 PM on April 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
One possible happy ending for Don that probably won't happen... Stephanie moves to New York and she moves in with Don platonically, with Don helping to raise her child.
Don seems like he wants a family but doesn't have the time or energy outside of work*, this would give him one and it would mirror his own childhood with him becoming the new Uncle Mac.
*I just realized as I was typing this... Don is terrible at keeping his worklife from superseding everything... When he grew up, he grew up in a place where people literally worked from home so there was no separation of work-life and home-life.
posted by drezdn at 1:02 PM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Don seems like he wants a family but doesn't have the time or energy outside of work*, this would give him one and it would mirror his own childhood with him becoming the new Uncle Mac.
*I just realized as I was typing this... Don is terrible at keeping his worklife from superseding everything... When he grew up, he grew up in a place where people literally worked from home so there was no separation of work-life and home-life.
posted by drezdn at 1:02 PM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Exactly what is Don "holding out" on?
I'd argue that he hasn't yet fully lost his integrity as a artist in the medium of persuasion. Neither has Peggy. Sure he/she is a terrible person, but that's all in service of the work. And the work is more important than selling things. Or maybe, the work is selling things elevated to an artform. But now it's all being corrupted. Or maybe the inherent corruption is becoming clear. That is a central question of the show. But at the least, now is when the intentional lie is taking center stage. Instead of changing the conversation, advertising, and capital in general, starts to find out what the conversation is and inserting blatant falsehoods to make it about Coke or Nixon. Who needs a monoculture when you can poison from within anything that resembles the weeds that took over the lawn in the 60s? We have a hippie, we have a black, put them on those niches and get them back on board the Love Train.
It's Toasted becomes Joe Camel. Segregation Forever becomes The Southern Strategy. It's a New Day In America.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:11 PM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'd argue that he hasn't yet fully lost his integrity as a artist in the medium of persuasion. Neither has Peggy. Sure he/she is a terrible person, but that's all in service of the work. And the work is more important than selling things. Or maybe, the work is selling things elevated to an artform. But now it's all being corrupted. Or maybe the inherent corruption is becoming clear. That is a central question of the show. But at the least, now is when the intentional lie is taking center stage. Instead of changing the conversation, advertising, and capital in general, starts to find out what the conversation is and inserting blatant falsehoods to make it about Coke or Nixon. Who needs a monoculture when you can poison from within anything that resembles the weeds that took over the lawn in the 60s? We have a hippie, we have a black, put them on those niches and get them back on board the Love Train.
It's Toasted becomes Joe Camel. Segregation Forever becomes The Southern Strategy. It's a New Day In America.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:11 PM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
One thing that the show has never covered yet (and probably won't) is what Don's life was like between him losing his virginity and joining the military. While we sort of know why he joined, it would be an interesting possibility to end the show with a young Dick Whitman enlisting.
posted by drezdn at 1:16 PM on April 13, 2015
posted by drezdn at 1:16 PM on April 13, 2015
If they pull a "Don is already dead" though, I will be more enraged than I was towards HIMYM.
posted by drezdn at 1:17 PM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by drezdn at 1:17 PM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Sure he/she is a terrible person, but that's all in service of the work.
I don't think Peggy is a terrible person.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:22 PM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
I don't think Peggy is a terrible person.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:22 PM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
What are everyone's theories about where Megan's life goes from here?
posted by drezdn at 1:24 PM on April 13, 2015
posted by drezdn at 1:24 PM on April 13, 2015
In last season's threads where we assumed she was never coming back.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:28 PM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:28 PM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't think Peggy is a terrible person.
I don't think Don is a terrible person. Actually I would say they both are, in their integrity, moral centers of the show.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:29 PM on April 13, 2015
I don't think Don is a terrible person. Actually I would say they both are, in their integrity, moral centers of the show.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:29 PM on April 13, 2015
What I should have said was "Sure he/she does terrible things, but that's all in service of the work."
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:30 PM on April 13, 2015
posted by Potomac Avenue at 1:30 PM on April 13, 2015
I have to think that Megan is done now. Unless the finale includes some kind of "here's where everyone is at" montage - and I think Megan will be living off Don's money throwing fab LA parties and being sad inside because she's still never accomplished anything on her own.
posted by crossoverman at 1:44 PM on April 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by crossoverman at 1:44 PM on April 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
Thinking about it, I didn't really object to anything that happened in this episode - I'm just mostly annoyed that this is what they chose to focus on in the 6th last episode of the entire series. Pima would have been a great character to meet some other time, but throwing Stan a bone and giving him a home life and a subplot seemed like a odd choice this late in the game.
posted by crossoverman at 1:50 PM on April 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by crossoverman at 1:50 PM on April 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
Unless the finale includes some kind of "here's where everyone is at" montage
Douglas C. Neidermeyer '63. Killed in Vietnam by his own troops.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:01 PM on April 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
Douglas C. Neidermeyer '63. Killed in Vietnam by his own troops.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:01 PM on April 13, 2015 [6 favorites]
What are everyone's theories about where Megan's life goes from here?
Megan's acting career sputters to a stop in part because of her inability to land any roles, but mostly because of her growing interest in money and power. She marries a wealthy movie producer and becomes a influential, hip, and always fashionably dressed Hollywood insider.
posted by cwest at 2:03 PM on April 13, 2015 [7 favorites]
Megan's acting career sputters to a stop in part because of her inability to land any roles, but mostly because of her growing interest in money and power. She marries a wealthy movie producer and becomes a influential, hip, and always fashionably dressed Hollywood insider.
posted by cwest at 2:03 PM on April 13, 2015 [7 favorites]
Well, that certainly beats being murdered by the Manson Family.
posted by box at 2:17 PM on April 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by box at 2:17 PM on April 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
The Manson brothers. Ask Meredith.
posted by cwest at 2:19 PM on April 13, 2015 [15 favorites]
posted by cwest at 2:19 PM on April 13, 2015 [15 favorites]
Harry is always hitting on every woman he interacts with.
posted by dry white toast at 2:33 PM on April 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by dry white toast at 2:33 PM on April 13, 2015 [4 favorites]
Meredith is protected from men like Harry by the impenetrable wall of fog that always surrounds her.
posted by cwest at 2:39 PM on April 13, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by cwest at 2:39 PM on April 13, 2015 [9 favorites]
Her singing animal friends would never let someone like Harry get close.
posted by The Whelk at 2:43 PM on April 13, 2015 [30 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 2:43 PM on April 13, 2015 [30 favorites]
Harry's the only person who's been able to explain to Don just exactly how badly he fucked up Megan's career. He says something like: why did she quit her soap opera in NY and move to LA?
Don thought acting was stupid, and didn't think anything of telling Megan they were moving to LA, or of changing his mind, even though she'd already quit her job.
I think he also assumed it was a meritocracy, and if she wasn't so crazy-eye like her manager told Don she was, she'd be getting work.
Turns out she wasn't getting work because she wasn't willing to go the casting couch route. And when Harry says what he says, Don realizes that he himself really could've helped her get work. And she already was getting work, in NY. She had work. She had talent and she had bonafides.
I personally think he's right about acting being stupid, but his smug assessment of it isn't the reason he didn't support her. He didn't care. That's why he didn't support her.
posted by vitabellosi at 2:45 PM on April 13, 2015 [10 favorites]
Don thought acting was stupid, and didn't think anything of telling Megan they were moving to LA, or of changing his mind, even though she'd already quit her job.
I think he also assumed it was a meritocracy, and if she wasn't so crazy-eye like her manager told Don she was, she'd be getting work.
Turns out she wasn't getting work because she wasn't willing to go the casting couch route. And when Harry says what he says, Don realizes that he himself really could've helped her get work. And she already was getting work, in NY. She had work. She had talent and she had bonafides.
I personally think he's right about acting being stupid, but his smug assessment of it isn't the reason he didn't support her. He didn't care. That's why he didn't support her.
posted by vitabellosi at 2:45 PM on April 13, 2015 [10 favorites]
I'm frustrated with the flat, caricatured way that most of the characters are coming across lately -- especially Don's ex-wives, but really everyone who isn't Don. In some ways, that makes sense for this crew. I even praised the writers last week for capturing the way that many of them are simply becoming more themselves as they age. But honestly, there was a time on Mad Men when Betty deciding to become a counselor wouldn't come off as a gag. If this were an earlier season, we would have learned something about how she came to this unlikely decision, what it meant to her, what Henry thinks about it, what's in her mind that makes her feel ready to grow now.
Instead the joke's on Betty -- ha-ha, doesn't she know that she's actually a woman of very limited emotional insight who seems mostly to talk at people! -- while Don, of course, is still having every aspect of his every mistake tenderly examined.
I would've liked to have seen Betty Francis, Pearl-Encrusted Patrician Therapist. I agree that there's probably a lot of delusion in her decision to pursue it. I can also see her being really good at it eventually, with the right support.
posted by thesmallmachine at 2:54 PM on April 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
Instead the joke's on Betty -- ha-ha, doesn't she know that she's actually a woman of very limited emotional insight who seems mostly to talk at people! -- while Don, of course, is still having every aspect of his every mistake tenderly examined.
I would've liked to have seen Betty Francis, Pearl-Encrusted Patrician Therapist. I agree that there's probably a lot of delusion in her decision to pursue it. I can also see her being really good at it eventually, with the right support.
posted by thesmallmachine at 2:54 PM on April 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
Also in her (Megan's) rant, the thing that really gets him is her calling him a liar. He is more than liar, he is lie. He wants the lie to be more pure than the truth, healthier. But it isn't. If he is to be redeemed it can only be by the truth. "Mad Man" a book by Don Draper. But probably it won't be that simple.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:56 PM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 2:56 PM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
I personally think he's right about acting being stupid
??!??!!??!!!!!
posted by crossoverman at 3:17 PM on April 13, 2015
??!??!!??!!!!!
posted by crossoverman at 3:17 PM on April 13, 2015
I think grad school will be a good thing for Betty.
posted by mochapickle at 3:19 PM on April 13, 2015
posted by mochapickle at 3:19 PM on April 13, 2015
This episode was quite strange for me. I felt like the first half was wading into a lot of new territory (new business?) with new people that don't seem to really matter. Perhaps they're reflections of their counterparts, but there's this slight anxiety I get about it all — there's not enough time, move it along! Then it did pick up and the second half was in good stride and going interesting places.
There were many parallel scenes and callbacks in this episode. Both Don and Meagan taking last looks as they leave their former homes/partners and walking out. Stan and Peggy having rendez-vous'es(?) with Pima. Roger and Marie again. Meagan's baby blue mini. The wine carpet stains and the ensuing commentary. The golf clubs. So many more I'm sure.
The noirishness of Die-Anna (good call on that, Sweetie Darling — but now I can't unknow it) is so over the top, but I like how gloomy she is and Don is just drawn to it. I think when he finally sees that there's nothing she wants from him, not even a guide book, he gets it and leaves. She's been trying to tell him this from the very start. And it certainly makes her death speech at the beginning make a lot more sense.
Peggy and Stan's coworker's terribly hidden smile as he sits on the couch (after Stan leaves the office) is the single best/funniest TV moment I've seen all year so far. It was priceless.
posted by iamkimiam at 4:09 PM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
There were many parallel scenes and callbacks in this episode. Both Don and Meagan taking last looks as they leave their former homes/partners and walking out. Stan and Peggy having rendez-vous'es(?) with Pima. Roger and Marie again. Meagan's baby blue mini. The wine carpet stains and the ensuing commentary. The golf clubs. So many more I'm sure.
The noirishness of Die-Anna (good call on that, Sweetie Darling — but now I can't unknow it) is so over the top, but I like how gloomy she is and Don is just drawn to it. I think when he finally sees that there's nothing she wants from him, not even a guide book, he gets it and leaves. She's been trying to tell him this from the very start. And it certainly makes her death speech at the beginning make a lot more sense.
Peggy and Stan's coworker's terribly hidden smile as he sits on the couch (after Stan leaves the office) is the single best/funniest TV moment I've seen all year so far. It was priceless.
posted by iamkimiam at 4:09 PM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think grad school will be a good thing for Betty.
I do as well. She'll learn and grow quite a lot, not only academically but from interacting with the professors and other students. She is an intelligent, capable woman who has always found being a housewife very boring, and she will love having something challenging and interesting to do and having a recognized place in a new milieu. It's actually working as a therapist that would be such a disaster for her (not to mention her poor patients), but perhaps during the course of her program she'll find out, or be told, that she isn't much good at clinical work and get into some sort of administrative job, which she would be good at.
posted by orange swan at 4:24 PM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I do as well. She'll learn and grow quite a lot, not only academically but from interacting with the professors and other students. She is an intelligent, capable woman who has always found being a housewife very boring, and she will love having something challenging and interesting to do and having a recognized place in a new milieu. It's actually working as a therapist that would be such a disaster for her (not to mention her poor patients), but perhaps during the course of her program she'll find out, or be told, that she isn't much good at clinical work and get into some sort of administrative job, which she would be good at.
posted by orange swan at 4:24 PM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also, as I was falling asleep last night I thought, "Diana. DIE. ANNA."
I got a chuckle when I realized the two diner waitresses were Vi and Di.
I don't quite get the whole deal with Caroline training Shirley as her assistant. Is it meant to show that Roger's more involved in the business? That Caroline's getting past it? Or was it just meant as pointless light comic relief?
And,going over past episodes, I notice people (with the notable exception of her husbands and oldest child) really DO tend to confide in Betty. Of course,in the past she's never known what to do when they do it, but I guess she'll learn that in school.
With so little time left, the bits with Megan and Stan did seem like they were taking time away from the more interesting stories I had hoped would be wrapped up by the finale. Unless the Pima Affair was some kind of path to Steggy? I would have had morefun if Marie had come by herself to collect Megan's things.
I also LOL'ed at the mention of Burt Peterson. You never know when a joke is going to pay off.
Seeing Don all sad that Betty,Henry and the kids seem to have the happy home life Don always wanted was a very poignant moment. He might as well have been an urchin looking in a cnady shop window instead ofaman looking through a kitchen door on his way out..
posted by The Underpants Monster at 5:31 PM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I got a chuckle when I realized the two diner waitresses were Vi and Di.
I don't quite get the whole deal with Caroline training Shirley as her assistant. Is it meant to show that Roger's more involved in the business? That Caroline's getting past it? Or was it just meant as pointless light comic relief?
And,going over past episodes, I notice people (with the notable exception of her husbands and oldest child) really DO tend to confide in Betty. Of course,in the past she's never known what to do when they do it, but I guess she'll learn that in school.
With so little time left, the bits with Megan and Stan did seem like they were taking time away from the more interesting stories I had hoped would be wrapped up by the finale. Unless the Pima Affair was some kind of path to Steggy? I would have had morefun if Marie had come by herself to collect Megan's things.
I also LOL'ed at the mention of Burt Peterson. You never know when a joke is going to pay off.
Seeing Don all sad that Betty,Henry and the kids seem to have the happy home life Don always wanted was a very poignant moment. He might as well have been an urchin looking in a cnady shop window instead ofaman looking through a kitchen door on his way out..
posted by The Underpants Monster at 5:31 PM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think grad school will be a good thing for Betty.
She can learn to do OLS on a 197X mainframe! With punchcards!
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:56 PM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
She can learn to do OLS on a 197X mainframe! With punchcards!
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:56 PM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'd love to see another scene with Roger and Burt Petersen.
posted by readery at 6:00 PM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by readery at 6:00 PM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
I was kind of hoping for another scene in which Roger gleefully fires Burt Peterson yet again, but given the corporate structure (i.e., McCann owns Sterling Cooper), that wouldn't make sense. However, I am not without hope that we'll have some sort of awesome Roger and Burt scene.
posted by orange swan at 6:04 PM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by orange swan at 6:04 PM on April 13, 2015 [1 favorite]
Stolen from one of my favorite Tumblrs:
me talking to my psychiatrist, Betty Draper Francis: I've been having a lot of issues with my mother, she keeps criticizing my weight and implying that I'm fat
my psychiatrist, Betty Draper Francis: well she's not wrong
posted by Sweetie Darling at 7:12 PM on April 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
me talking to my psychiatrist, Betty Draper Francis: I've been having a lot of issues with my mother, she keeps criticizing my weight and implying that I'm fat
my psychiatrist, Betty Draper Francis: well she's not wrong
posted by Sweetie Darling at 7:12 PM on April 13, 2015 [5 favorites]
I personally think he's right about acting being stupid
Sorry - I just threw that out there. I mean, I can see Don wondering why Megan would subject herself to that scene, those people, etc. From his perspective - especially since she has so much potential in advertising, and he's already providing for her.
My little quip about agreeing that it's stupid - love the band, hate the fans. There's a "mystique" around being involved in "The Arts" that implies some kind of superior level of enlightenment. But I did call the perspective "smug". Who am I? My opinion isn't anything. I make my own asshole claims to superior enlightenment that put me out of step with plenty of people. Don works in advertising. In my day job, I provide a minor service for a generally nice group of people, who am I? Who is Don? (Don is The Guy Who Doesn't Belong. Of course he finds it slightly embarrassing that Megan would find and join a Tribe and be excited about it.)
It doesn't matter whether or not Don is (or I am) right in the assessment the acting profession being kind of stupid. He thought more highly of her than he thinks of acting. She's too good for acting. She can do better. He was wondering how "valuing her so highly" could equal: asshole.
In his narrative he was being loving and gallant. In her narrative, he destroyed her career without even thinking about it.
Because of Harry, he now understands what he did. That's why he gives her a million dollars.
That's the tricky thing about relationships.
posted by vitabellosi at 7:26 PM on April 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
Sorry - I just threw that out there. I mean, I can see Don wondering why Megan would subject herself to that scene, those people, etc. From his perspective - especially since she has so much potential in advertising, and he's already providing for her.
My little quip about agreeing that it's stupid - love the band, hate the fans. There's a "mystique" around being involved in "The Arts" that implies some kind of superior level of enlightenment. But I did call the perspective "smug". Who am I? My opinion isn't anything. I make my own asshole claims to superior enlightenment that put me out of step with plenty of people. Don works in advertising. In my day job, I provide a minor service for a generally nice group of people, who am I? Who is Don? (Don is The Guy Who Doesn't Belong. Of course he finds it slightly embarrassing that Megan would find and join a Tribe and be excited about it.)
It doesn't matter whether or not Don is (or I am) right in the assessment the acting profession being kind of stupid. He thought more highly of her than he thinks of acting. She's too good for acting. She can do better. He was wondering how "valuing her so highly" could equal: asshole.
In his narrative he was being loving and gallant. In her narrative, he destroyed her career without even thinking about it.
Because of Harry, he now understands what he did. That's why he gives her a million dollars.
That's the tricky thing about relationships.
posted by vitabellosi at 7:26 PM on April 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm willing to bet (long odds, I know!) that Don will be married to Meredith at the end. She's the only one who puts up with him.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 7:43 PM on April 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 7:43 PM on April 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
To be honest, I did not like Megan in this episode. She became the stereotype of the ex-wife blaming the future ex-husband. I recall that she leveraged the marriage to achieve her initial success in New York (the shoe commercial), which harkens back to Betty's disappointment in not being cast in a set of ads (the pigeon shooting episode). I am keeping in mind that I never liked Megan (slept with her boss, put yourself forth as a copywriter, moved on to acting, received financial support throughout). In the end she got paid. I suppose she will marry again, I just do not see her being independent without a husband to leverage. However, it was a good call not caving to Harry. Yeesh.
posted by jadepearl at 7:53 PM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by jadepearl at 7:53 PM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
I had a really visceral reaction to Megan's behaviour in the lawyer's office. My family got into an ugly legal fight because of expectations of money based on no real thing. Lots of entitlement. And in that scene Megan looked...exactly like one of my aunts, right down to the dark hair.
Honestly, I had no time for Megan's blame game. Yes he cost her her gig on TV. AFTER HE MADE IT HAPPEN. How much would the other secretaries at SCDP have traded to have the doors opened to them that marrying Don would have opened??
I sympathize with her family drama, but Don didn't owe her that.
posted by dry white toast at 8:13 PM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
Honestly, I had no time for Megan's blame game. Yes he cost her her gig on TV. AFTER HE MADE IT HAPPEN. How much would the other secretaries at SCDP have traded to have the doors opened to them that marrying Don would have opened??
I sympathize with her family drama, but Don didn't owe her that.
posted by dry white toast at 8:13 PM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
the show will end with him ditching the Don Draper persona and just becoming (or returning to) who he is: Dick Whitman.
To be followed by the spinoff, When Harry met Whitman. Hopefully they do as good a job as Better Call Saul.
"That should be fascinating for everyone involved," is entering the pantheon of great Mad Men quotes.
Well at least there's potentially one good thing in an upcoming Star Trek film, new Spock can quote Mad Men. No doubt, "It's a wonder you don't have syphillis." could also be of use, in response to new Kirk of course.
posted by juiceCake at 8:44 PM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
To be followed by the spinoff, When Harry met Whitman. Hopefully they do as good a job as Better Call Saul.
"That should be fascinating for everyone involved," is entering the pantheon of great Mad Men quotes.
Well at least there's potentially one good thing in an upcoming Star Trek film, new Spock can quote Mad Men. No doubt, "It's a wonder you don't have syphillis." could also be of use, in response to new Kirk of course.
posted by juiceCake at 8:44 PM on April 13, 2015 [2 favorites]
10 bucks we never see Megan again. It was a terrific sendoff, I thought.
I don't know. I'd agree, except I think Weiner loves Megan, and I'm not sure WHY he'd send her off that way, acting all irrational and petulant and money-grubbing in a way she never has before. (Irrational as in... Don DID set her up with the career she has--such as it is--and before now she's always recognized and been grateful for that, at least.)
Last year's phone call with Don could have been a terrific sendoff, too.
Having said that--I don't understand the complaints about spending time in these last eps with Megan as if she's a bit part. She's been on the show three seasons; she was Don's WIFE. I get that people don't like her, but she's a major character.
And don't get me started on TLo on Megan. Quotes:
- peripheral characters the audience doesn’t care much about
- the supremely bratty daughters
- able to appear [appear?!] interested and affectionate toward his children
- Don was a horrible husband to Megan, but he asked little of her, gave her a ton of room to find out what she wanted from her life, and footed the bill on a high-end lifestyle that she clearly wanted and enjoyed [yay golddigger! Clearly that's what Megan always really wanted out of the relationship.]
- She can stomp off in anger all she wants, but she’s walking away with way more than the mother of his children did when she walked away.
GAH!! Will restrict myself to saying wrt that last one, SO?? Megan also parented those children, at times it seems a lot more/better than Don did.
posted by torticat at 2:36 AM on April 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
I don't know. I'd agree, except I think Weiner loves Megan, and I'm not sure WHY he'd send her off that way, acting all irrational and petulant and money-grubbing in a way she never has before. (Irrational as in... Don DID set her up with the career she has--such as it is--and before now she's always recognized and been grateful for that, at least.)
Last year's phone call with Don could have been a terrific sendoff, too.
Having said that--I don't understand the complaints about spending time in these last eps with Megan as if she's a bit part. She's been on the show three seasons; she was Don's WIFE. I get that people don't like her, but she's a major character.
And don't get me started on TLo on Megan. Quotes:
- peripheral characters the audience doesn’t care much about
- the supremely bratty daughters
- able to appear [appear?!] interested and affectionate toward his children
- Don was a horrible husband to Megan, but he asked little of her, gave her a ton of room to find out what she wanted from her life, and footed the bill on a high-end lifestyle that she clearly wanted and enjoyed [yay golddigger! Clearly that's what Megan always really wanted out of the relationship.]
- She can stomp off in anger all she wants, but she’s walking away with way more than the mother of his children did when she walked away.
GAH!! Will restrict myself to saying wrt that last one, SO?? Megan also parented those children, at times it seems a lot more/better than Don did.
posted by torticat at 2:36 AM on April 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
I wonder what terrified Don more: being a passenger when Tom flew that small plane, or being a passenger when Pete was driving?
posted by littlesq at 3:38 AM on April 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by littlesq at 3:38 AM on April 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Grantland's power rankings this week call Don a "depression vampire", which misses the fact that Don not only feeds off depression, but also seems to generate it wherever he goes. So it's a catchy, but not exactly an apt metaphor.
Megan's acting career sputters to a stop in part because of her inability to land any roles, but mostly because of her growing interest in money and power. She marries a wealthy movie producer and becomes a influential, hip, and always fashionably dressed Hollywood insider.
I agree, although I think Megan is most likely done on the show. She's proven she has a capability for that sort of work when she was a copywriter (very briefly). I have to think she'll be resenting being behind the camera, even despite flourishing in the money side of film production.
Anyway, I think that Megan was justified in being pissed at Don. She always loved him more than he loved her, and he used his cloak of emotional inscrutability to distract her from that fact until the very end. Don realizes that (by way of Harry Crane, of all people) and does the one thing that Don is still able to do for other people: hand them money.
I wonder how having the season split has changed the approach to writing it. It seems like instead of getting a satisfying three act season, we got a pretty well done first half, and then we're starting up this half more or less at the same point in the plot, but the writers have to do all of this establishing stuff again (Don's sad, Peggy's in a rut, Joan is dissatisfied with a lack of respect, Roger is in hedonistic arrested development). So we're back at act 1's introduction when we should be entering act 3's climax, and it seems to be throwing off a lot of viewers.
posted by codacorolla at 6:04 AM on April 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
Megan's acting career sputters to a stop in part because of her inability to land any roles, but mostly because of her growing interest in money and power. She marries a wealthy movie producer and becomes a influential, hip, and always fashionably dressed Hollywood insider.
I agree, although I think Megan is most likely done on the show. She's proven she has a capability for that sort of work when she was a copywriter (very briefly). I have to think she'll be resenting being behind the camera, even despite flourishing in the money side of film production.
Anyway, I think that Megan was justified in being pissed at Don. She always loved him more than he loved her, and he used his cloak of emotional inscrutability to distract her from that fact until the very end. Don realizes that (by way of Harry Crane, of all people) and does the one thing that Don is still able to do for other people: hand them money.
I wonder how having the season split has changed the approach to writing it. It seems like instead of getting a satisfying three act season, we got a pretty well done first half, and then we're starting up this half more or less at the same point in the plot, but the writers have to do all of this establishing stuff again (Don's sad, Peggy's in a rut, Joan is dissatisfied with a lack of respect, Roger is in hedonistic arrested development). So we're back at act 1's introduction when we should be entering act 3's climax, and it seems to be throwing off a lot of viewers.
posted by codacorolla at 6:04 AM on April 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
Megan's behavior with Don struck me as unpleasant, but believable and understandable. She's been through a lot with the marriage, and she's been through a lot the past couple of days with her sister and mother, and now her high hopes for the meeting with Harry get turned into shit. I'd probably be lashing out, too.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:09 AM on April 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 6:09 AM on April 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
Harry Crane has made them both realize that Megan is screwed, and that Don is inadvertently responsible. Harry connected the dots that Don took what there was of Megan's talent and squandered it in order to save a marriage he didn't even particularly care that much about. Harry's grotesque behavior lets Megan see that regardless of whatever talent she has, she's never going to make it in Hollywood without selling out (and maybe not even then). Megan is now stuck in a place where she has no job prospects, has wasted years of her life in a marriage she's beginning to realize was mostly one sided, and with the opprobrium of her super judgemental family. Even if he didn't do it intentionally, Don has ruined her life. It's mostly true she wouldn't have had those many of those things without having married him, but to set someone up with a glimpse of what they desire and then smash it all down like a kid playing with blocks who's tired of whatever he's building is cruel. To do it without even thinking about it is worse.
I think the kindest thing Don could do would be to stop pretending that their relationship was anything other than transactional for him and just literally pay her off so that they can move on with their lives. At least this way she can try to find some other path without having to constantly be waiting for Don's alimony check (and if Don can afford to lose a Million dollars with a single check, just imagine the deal he could've paid his lawyers to work out).
posted by codacorolla at 6:23 AM on April 14, 2015 [17 favorites]
I think the kindest thing Don could do would be to stop pretending that their relationship was anything other than transactional for him and just literally pay her off so that they can move on with their lives. At least this way she can try to find some other path without having to constantly be waiting for Don's alimony check (and if Don can afford to lose a Million dollars with a single check, just imagine the deal he could've paid his lawyers to work out).
posted by codacorolla at 6:23 AM on April 14, 2015 [17 favorites]
I find it interesting Don has $1MM - $6.2MM in 2015 dollars - just sitting in checking. I know there were fewer financial options in 1970, but shouldn't he at least have that in savings? Maybe Pete can hook Don up with his tax planner.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:13 AM on April 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Chrysostom at 7:13 AM on April 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Wonder if the point of the two secretaries scene is to show that Roger is having to do actual work.
posted by drezdn at 7:35 AM on April 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 7:35 AM on April 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
I find it interesting Don has $1MM - $6.2MM in 2015 dollars - just sitting in checking. I know there were fewer financial options in 1970, but shouldn't he at least have that in savings?
Well, when Betty found out he'd hidden his impoverished upbringing from her, she did remark that she'd always thought he handled money like someone who'd never had it... maybe he's still like that?
posted by palomar at 7:49 AM on April 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
Well, when Betty found out he'd hidden his impoverished upbringing from her, she did remark that she'd always thought he handled money like someone who'd never had it... maybe he's still like that?
posted by palomar at 7:49 AM on April 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
Yeah, he's got trusts set up for the kids but that's kind of the extent of the planning we are aware that he's done.
posted by tilde at 7:55 AM on April 14, 2015
posted by tilde at 7:55 AM on April 14, 2015
Remember Don's desk drawer stash of cash? I suspect that he likes to have a lot of money readily accessible to him because it makes him feel secure. I hope he clues in that he shouldn't have that much money lying around in a chequing or savings account before the galloping inflation of the seventies reduces its actual worth to a tiny fraction of the buying power it had when he first got it.
posted by orange swan at 8:28 AM on April 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by orange swan at 8:28 AM on April 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
I mean I know a lot of people who got bounced into a nice respectable salary and had no idea how to handle thier money cause they didn't come from a background where lawyers and accountants and trusts where just part of life and normal people you could approach - Don does seem like someone who wouldn't be investing so much as hiding money under the mattress.
I also thought Betty's line was a bit of WASPy Main Line Culture thing, you don't throw money money, and you don't use money to directly solve problems, because that's making your money noticable, and the polite fiction of that class strata is that everyone is more or less at the same level of comfort and bringing money up, either for good for bad, is horribly rude.
posted by The Whelk at 8:44 AM on April 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
I also thought Betty's line was a bit of WASPy Main Line Culture thing, you don't throw money money, and you don't use money to directly solve problems, because that's making your money noticable, and the polite fiction of that class strata is that everyone is more or less at the same level of comfort and bringing money up, either for good for bad, is horribly rude.
posted by The Whelk at 8:44 AM on April 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Don Draper Leads SC&P During A Natural Disaster (The Toast)
posted by The Whelk at 9:22 AM on April 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 9:22 AM on April 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
Torticat, at least they didn't zero in on Megan's teeth as an indication of why she should be hated. I see that around a lot as well.
posted by PussKillian at 9:48 AM on April 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by PussKillian at 9:48 AM on April 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Wonder if the point of the two secretaries scene is to show that Roger is having to do actual work.
That's the way I read it. After the McCann buyout Roger is the main conduit for McCann in its dealings with SC&P. And McCann is not leaving SC&P alone. They have lots of requests. Actually not requests, but orders from on high. Fire Ken Cosgrove. Deal with Derby Foods. Ect. I don't think we've seen Roger this busy at work before. If Roger is that busy, then so is his secretary Caroline. In fact, Caroline feels so swamped she enlists the aid of Shirley.
posted by cwest at 11:03 AM on April 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
That's the way I read it. After the McCann buyout Roger is the main conduit for McCann in its dealings with SC&P. And McCann is not leaving SC&P alone. They have lots of requests. Actually not requests, but orders from on high. Fire Ken Cosgrove. Deal with Derby Foods. Ect. I don't think we've seen Roger this busy at work before. If Roger is that busy, then so is his secretary Caroline. In fact, Caroline feels so swamped she enlists the aid of Shirley.
posted by cwest at 11:03 AM on April 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
I sincerely hope that when I finally cave and seek therapy, my doctor will be Betty Draper looking down my neckline.
posted by BAKERSFIELD! at 12:37 PM on April 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by BAKERSFIELD! at 12:37 PM on April 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
@mochapickle
I stand corrected. That is the look of a man staring death in the face.
posted by littlesq at 12:39 PM on April 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
I stand corrected. That is the look of a man staring death in the face.
posted by littlesq at 12:39 PM on April 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
The milkshakes at Casa Francis were a callback to how Megan got together with Don in the first place (in Tomorrowland).
Before Don did her wrong, Megan used to be so carefree! So cool and so effortlessly, patiently maternal and so very un-Betty-like in the face of spilled milkshakes.
posted by hush at 12:45 PM on April 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
Before Don did her wrong, Megan used to be so carefree! So cool and so effortlessly, patiently maternal and so very un-Betty-like in the face of spilled milkshakes.
posted by hush at 12:45 PM on April 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
And McCann is not leaving SC&P alone. They have lots of requests. Actually not requests, but orders from on high. Fire Ken Cosgrove. Deal with Derby Foods. Ect. I don't think we've seen Roger this busy at work before.
Not to mention he has to hide from Burt Peterson, who may functionally be above him in the pecking order at McCann.
This is serious karma for Roger. I mentioned in last week's Fanfare thread that Roger is always buying something when he gives people money (last week it was forgiveness for being rude to Diana and, as it turned out, sex for Don). Now he is finding out what it means when people give you money.
I also wonder if Don got on board with selling to McCann, a company he has tried to avoid for years, because he felt responsible for screwing over Joan and Pete, and this was a way to make it up to them.
posted by dry white toast at 12:56 PM on April 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Not to mention he has to hide from Burt Peterson, who may functionally be above him in the pecking order at McCann.
This is serious karma for Roger. I mentioned in last week's Fanfare thread that Roger is always buying something when he gives people money (last week it was forgiveness for being rude to Diana and, as it turned out, sex for Don). Now he is finding out what it means when people give you money.
I also wonder if Don got on board with selling to McCann, a company he has tried to avoid for years, because he felt responsible for screwing over Joan and Pete, and this was a way to make it up to them.
posted by dry white toast at 12:56 PM on April 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
I find it interesting Don has $1MM - $6.2MM in 2015 dollars - just sitting in checking.
I've written cheques (admittedly not that size) knowing I was going to have to move money around before it got cashed. Particularly given how slowly transactions moved in those days, I'm pretty sure Don can write it and know the money can get moved from wherever before it gets actually withdrawn.
Also, when you're that rich, you have a personal relationship with someone at the bank who makes sure your cheques don't bounce.
posted by dry white toast at 1:08 PM on April 14, 2015
I've written cheques (admittedly not that size) knowing I was going to have to move money around before it got cashed. Particularly given how slowly transactions moved in those days, I'm pretty sure Don can write it and know the money can get moved from wherever before it gets actually withdrawn.
Also, when you're that rich, you have a personal relationship with someone at the bank who makes sure your cheques don't bounce.
posted by dry white toast at 1:08 PM on April 14, 2015
I'm hoping to see Talia Balsam's name in the opening credits very soon.
posted by hush at 1:53 PM on April 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by hush at 1:53 PM on April 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
On the note that Megans's life is screwed because Don squandered her years, explain to me why she cannot return to New York or any other city to "break-in"? How old is she? Did all her New York connections evaporate?
On the one sided nature of the marriage, I thought the marriage started better since Don did not lie to Megan about his Dick Whitman past. So, Megan loving Don more than he loved her? I am not sure that I see that, since he seemed to compromise in being leveraged for her benefit. The most equal relationship that Don seems to have is Joan though that is filled with its own prickly tensions.
Seriously, I wonder what the advice on AskMefi would be for the various characters if they posted?
posted by jadepearl at 4:32 PM on April 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
On the one sided nature of the marriage, I thought the marriage started better since Don did not lie to Megan about his Dick Whitman past. So, Megan loving Don more than he loved her? I am not sure that I see that, since he seemed to compromise in being leveraged for her benefit. The most equal relationship that Don seems to have is Joan though that is filled with its own prickly tensions.
Seriously, I wonder what the advice on AskMefi would be for the various characters if they posted?
posted by jadepearl at 4:32 PM on April 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
So cool and so effortlessly, patiently maternal and so very un-Betty-like in the face of spilled milkshakes.
Or so coyly trying to work Don through his children. IIRC, the main reason she ended up going on that trip was because Don desperately needed someone to help him with the kids. Bonus for him that he got a nanny he could also have sex with after the kids were asleep.
On the note that Megans's life is screwed because Don squandered her years, explain to me why she cannot return to New York or any other city to "break-in"? How old is she? Did all her New York connections evaporate?
I don't get that either unless she's afraid of Don's inadvertent, likely negative influence. At the time most of the daytime soap operas were based in New York so one would think she could easily get back into that world. Soaps were a stepping stone to Hollywood for many actors, and Megan could probably get character actress work, assuming she doesn't see that as being below her.
posted by fuse theorem at 5:17 PM on April 14, 2015
Or so coyly trying to work Don through his children. IIRC, the main reason she ended up going on that trip was because Don desperately needed someone to help him with the kids. Bonus for him that he got a nanny he could also have sex with after the kids were asleep.
On the note that Megans's life is screwed because Don squandered her years, explain to me why she cannot return to New York or any other city to "break-in"? How old is she? Did all her New York connections evaporate?
I don't get that either unless she's afraid of Don's inadvertent, likely negative influence. At the time most of the daytime soap operas were based in New York so one would think she could easily get back into that world. Soaps were a stepping stone to Hollywood for many actors, and Megan could probably get character actress work, assuming she doesn't see that as being below her.
posted by fuse theorem at 5:17 PM on April 14, 2015
At the time most of the daytime soap operas were based in New York so one would think she could easily get back into that world.
Harry's point seemed to be that she burned a bridge there by leaving abruptly to go to Los Angeles. Though it doesn't explain why she couldn't do theater or whatever.
posted by drezdn at 5:21 PM on April 14, 2015
Harry's point seemed to be that she burned a bridge there by leaving abruptly to go to Los Angeles. Though it doesn't explain why she couldn't do theater or whatever.
posted by drezdn at 5:21 PM on April 14, 2015
If anyone else was trying to find the song at the end: C'est si bon
posted by oulipian at 5:30 PM on April 14, 2015
posted by oulipian at 5:30 PM on April 14, 2015
Seriously, I wonder what the advice on AskMefi would be for the various characters if they posted?
Careful thinking like that has lead to write collaborative fanfic .
(Although Megan's situation .....I don't know it always seems a little off. Like maybe she got too much success too soon and now expects everything to be that easy and when it's not she's overly affected cause she hasn't built up years of rejection? Or something? )
posted by The Whelk at 6:27 PM on April 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
On the note that Megans's life is screwed because Don squandered her years, explain to me why she cannot return to New York or any other city to "break-in"? How old is she? Did all her New York connections evaporate?
Yes, very much so. That's the point of the Harry and Don conversation, and it's also hinted at when it happens if I remember correctly. She's not a strong enough talent to make it on her own, and now word has probably gotten around that she's flaky as well, since she decided to abandon her gig on the show. Harry, who's an insider in that world, intimates that much to Don (although it's arguable that he's trying to maneuver for sex).
posted by codacorolla at 6:49 PM on April 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yes, very much so. That's the point of the Harry and Don conversation, and it's also hinted at when it happens if I remember correctly. She's not a strong enough talent to make it on her own, and now word has probably gotten around that she's flaky as well, since she decided to abandon her gig on the show. Harry, who's an insider in that world, intimates that much to Don (although it's arguable that he's trying to maneuver for sex).
posted by codacorolla at 6:49 PM on April 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
She's not a strong enough talent to make it on her own
Do we even know whether Megan has acting talent in front of the camera? IMHO, I think she has acting talent in her personal life. But in front of the camera? We really don't have enough info to go on. So there's that.
Did her monied lifestyle with Don lessen the edge of her hunger for professional success? If so, that's not really Don's fault.
Don undermined Betty's confidence when they were married. It took Betty a long time to put herself together after that. Did Don undermine Megan's confidence? His emotional distance. His dissatisfaction with the marriage because Megan didn't fulfill the ideal he had in mind. His extramarital activities (which she at least had to sense). His half hearted support of her career. Her quitting her soap and trying to succeed in LA on her own because in the end Don ended up staying in New York.
Megan is professionally desperate and people are picking up on that. Plus, as codacorolla says, maybe word has gotten around that she is flaky. Remember Megan's agent calling Don because he was concerned about her chasing down industry people at lunch begging for a second chance at an audition. She is caught in a vicious cycle professionally. Rejection, then more desperation and lack of belief in herself. And on and on.
I apologize if I'm stating what's obvious. But we can only go with what the show has shown us.
posted by cwest at 7:21 PM on April 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
Do we even know whether Megan has acting talent in front of the camera? IMHO, I think she has acting talent in her personal life. But in front of the camera? We really don't have enough info to go on. So there's that.
Did her monied lifestyle with Don lessen the edge of her hunger for professional success? If so, that's not really Don's fault.
Don undermined Betty's confidence when they were married. It took Betty a long time to put herself together after that. Did Don undermine Megan's confidence? His emotional distance. His dissatisfaction with the marriage because Megan didn't fulfill the ideal he had in mind. His extramarital activities (which she at least had to sense). His half hearted support of her career. Her quitting her soap and trying to succeed in LA on her own because in the end Don ended up staying in New York.
Megan is professionally desperate and people are picking up on that. Plus, as codacorolla says, maybe word has gotten around that she is flaky. Remember Megan's agent calling Don because he was concerned about her chasing down industry people at lunch begging for a second chance at an audition. She is caught in a vicious cycle professionally. Rejection, then more desperation and lack of belief in herself. And on and on.
I apologize if I'm stating what's obvious. But we can only go with what the show has shown us.
posted by cwest at 7:21 PM on April 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
Megan is hardly the first actor in history to leave one job before getting another; I think Harry is way overstating the significance of that. If she's refusing to read for supporting roles because she only wants leads, that's likely to be a much bigger roadblock for her. (Well,that and the massive lack of talent we saw in the scenes from her soap.)
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:32 PM on April 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:32 PM on April 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Torticat, at least they didn't zero in on Megan's teeth as an indication of why she should be hated. I see that around a lot as well.
PussKillian, I know, small mercies I guess! I commented last year on Megan's teeth, how they made me like her more as a character.
I don't like in general how hard Tom and Lorenzo are on both Megan and Joan. They reduce each of these women to a type, a type with unattractive "female" characteristics, and don't allow them to be the complicated people I think they actually are on the show.
But we can only go with what the show has shown us.
I agree with some of what you've said cwest. I do think the desperation is a problem. And, as has been noted, the fact that Megan doesn't want to play the game the way it was played in LA. I mean I'm sure that's too broad a generalization about the acting culture in LA 45 years ago, but it could be part of what MM is suggesting about why things aren't working out for her out there.
Because the OTHER things the show has shown us are: That she had actually been doing reasonably okay in NYC. That Don thought she was a natural (at least in front of a camera), and Peggy too suspected she might be one of those people who is genuinely good at a lot of things. (Don and Peggy are good at reading people and know how to spot talent.) Plus we saw her effortless playacting with Don on the Cool Whip ad (and Peggy's hilarious attempt to mimic it). I think there's some evidence she's not talentless.
At any rate, I didn't think bringing her back to NYC for that episode was a waste of time at all. The entire sequence with Marie going totally off the rails and emptying out Don's place was hilarious (and stripping him of all his stuff could move things forward for him, too--he doesn't really need that huge place at this stage).
I hope that wasn't the absolute last we see of Megan; ending that whole chapter with acrimony and Don's just paying her off would just be TOO depressing. Megan, like Anna Draper, knew Dick Whitman and accepted him. And she really had tried to make things work.
posted by torticat at 10:00 PM on April 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
PussKillian, I know, small mercies I guess! I commented last year on Megan's teeth, how they made me like her more as a character.
I don't like in general how hard Tom and Lorenzo are on both Megan and Joan. They reduce each of these women to a type, a type with unattractive "female" characteristics, and don't allow them to be the complicated people I think they actually are on the show.
But we can only go with what the show has shown us.
I agree with some of what you've said cwest. I do think the desperation is a problem. And, as has been noted, the fact that Megan doesn't want to play the game the way it was played in LA. I mean I'm sure that's too broad a generalization about the acting culture in LA 45 years ago, but it could be part of what MM is suggesting about why things aren't working out for her out there.
Because the OTHER things the show has shown us are: That she had actually been doing reasonably okay in NYC. That Don thought she was a natural (at least in front of a camera), and Peggy too suspected she might be one of those people who is genuinely good at a lot of things. (Don and Peggy are good at reading people and know how to spot talent.) Plus we saw her effortless playacting with Don on the Cool Whip ad (and Peggy's hilarious attempt to mimic it). I think there's some evidence she's not talentless.
At any rate, I didn't think bringing her back to NYC for that episode was a waste of time at all. The entire sequence with Marie going totally off the rails and emptying out Don's place was hilarious (and stripping him of all his stuff could move things forward for him, too--he doesn't really need that huge place at this stage).
I hope that wasn't the absolute last we see of Megan; ending that whole chapter with acrimony and Don's just paying her off would just be TOO depressing. Megan, like Anna Draper, knew Dick Whitman and accepted him. And she really had tried to make things work.
posted by torticat at 10:00 PM on April 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
What do you mean not blowing up Fanfare like last year? Didn't last weeks thread have >200 comments?
Oh and yes, mlis, you're so right! I read that whole thread--guess it was just kinda slow building and I didn't realize how long it got.
I think anyway I was thinking of pre-Fanfare, when people were live-blogging MM on the blue. I think I like it better this way, a bit slower moving, with people having had the chance to absorb the whole episode before discussing.
posted by torticat at 10:06 PM on April 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
Oh and yes, mlis, you're so right! I read that whole thread--guess it was just kinda slow building and I didn't realize how long it got.
I think anyway I was thinking of pre-Fanfare, when people were live-blogging MM on the blue. I think I like it better this way, a bit slower moving, with people having had the chance to absorb the whole episode before discussing.
posted by torticat at 10:06 PM on April 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
Guys, we need to talk about the sombrero. There's a sombrero hanging in Don's office in this episode. Where did it come from? Don's trip to Acapulco in Season 4? Was it Lou's (an accessory to the tiki bar)? I don't think we've seen it before.
The other notable thing we see in the same shot is Lane's Mets pennant.
posted by dry white toast at 5:41 AM on April 15, 2015 [4 favorites]
The other notable thing we see in the same shot is Lane's Mets pennant.
posted by dry white toast at 5:41 AM on April 15, 2015 [4 favorites]
The other notable thing we see in the same shot is Lane's Mets pennant.
That definitely jumped out.
Related--Jared Harris is directing one of the upcoming episodes.
posted by torticat at 7:02 AM on April 15, 2015 [5 favorites]
That definitely jumped out.
Related--Jared Harris is directing one of the upcoming episodes.
posted by torticat at 7:02 AM on April 15, 2015 [5 favorites]
I feel like the kindler, gentler Don is now being showcased in his office, which includes the sombrero, the pennant, obvious kid drawings and a picture of Bobby. The drawings were mirrored by the ones on Betty's fridge...made me wonder if there's something to be said about the office as Don's home.
posted by mynameisluka at 7:28 AM on April 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by mynameisluka at 7:28 AM on April 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
But where did the sombrero come from? Did it just appear (narratively speaking)?
posted by dry white toast at 8:36 AM on April 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by dry white toast at 8:36 AM on April 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
One thought about the Megan/Harry interaction that Mad Style made me think of... She mentions that Harry helped two of her friends, and she knows what a terrible person Harry is. It makes me wonder if she did go into the meeting with possibility of hooking up with Harry in mind, but Harry was so un-smooth, so Harry-like, about it, that she walked out.
The other possibility that a AV Club commenter mentioned was that Megan's ego made her think that Harry would want to help her because she is "clearly" such a talent.
In short, Harry is the worst.
posted by drezdn at 8:48 AM on April 15, 2015
The other possibility that a AV Club commenter mentioned was that Megan's ego made her think that Harry would want to help her because she is "clearly" such a talent.
In short, Harry is the worst.
posted by drezdn at 8:48 AM on April 15, 2015
The sombrero represents death
posted by The Whelk at 8:48 AM on April 15, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 8:48 AM on April 15, 2015 [6 favorites]
T&L completely missed that Don is framed as coming between Arnold and Sylvia.
posted by drezdn at 8:52 AM on April 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 8:52 AM on April 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
If Diane represents death, it seems like it could be foreshadowing that she keeps rejecting Don.
posted by drezdn at 8:58 AM on April 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by drezdn at 8:58 AM on April 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
Harry is the worst. That said, I think Don/Harry interactions are my favorite thing on the show (Roger/Harry are good, too). Don just has such naked contempt for Harry.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:00 AM on April 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Chrysostom at 9:00 AM on April 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
I liked TLO highlighting the contrast between Megan and Anna. I guess we don't really know much about how Anna and Dick came to their arrangement. We go from Anna saying "What am I going to do with you?" to the house in Pasadena (Pasadena, right?). Obviously it was similar to his other relationships in that he threw money at her to absolve himself of stealing her husband's identity. But she also supported and loved him. And we're given the impression that her marriage to the original Don wasn't really a happy one, so he also gave her something, instead of just taking and buying her off.
She felt taken care of by Don and was grateful. As compared to Megan, who felt like she was ruined by Don and was getting repaid for it.
posted by dry white toast at 9:30 AM on April 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
She felt taken care of by Don and was grateful. As compared to Megan, who felt like she was ruined by Don and was getting repaid for it.
posted by dry white toast at 9:30 AM on April 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's actually working as a therapist that would be such a disaster for her (not to mention her poor patients), but perhaps during the course of her program she'll find out, or be told, that she isn't much good at clinical work and get into some sort of administrative job, which she would be good at.
Doesn't getting a psych degree also involved getting lots of analysis yourself, as part of your practice/training? That alone could be worth it for Betty.
posted by emjaybee at 11:38 AM on April 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
Doesn't getting a psych degree also involved getting lots of analysis yourself, as part of your practice/training? That alone could be worth it for Betty.
posted by emjaybee at 11:38 AM on April 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
The sombrero was a gift from a new account, Old El Paso. We'll see whoever grabs Pete's gun and accidentally chases Don out the window wearing it, stoned on margaritas. Probably Caroline, watching Margret/Marigold's kid again.
Old El Paso relocated to many locations around the US, before finally settling in Texas in 1958. In 1969, Old El Paso became the first national brand to offer a full line of Mexican meals in supermarkets and the first to advertise Mexican cuisine in the US.posted by tilde at 11:53 AM on April 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
In 1970, American supermarkets created a Mexican food section in their stores for the very first time, due to the influence of Old El Paso and other Mexican food products. Also in the 70s, Old El Paso introduced a taco dinner globally, where many international markets were unfamiliar with Mexican cuisine.
Thanks tilde. I missed that entirely. Do you remember when it happened?
posted by dry white toast at 12:15 PM on April 15, 2015
posted by dry white toast at 12:15 PM on April 15, 2015
Sometime between the five minutes when I opened the reply window and then wandered over to Wikipedia to pad out my fake storyline and then hit Post Comment.
posted by tilde at 12:42 PM on April 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by tilde at 12:42 PM on April 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
Ah man, if Don would have got the Pace Picante account, I'd like to imagine him spend twenty years failing to come up with any effective ads until, inspired by someone's shock that he lives in New York, he comes up with the Pace Picante "NEW YORK CITY?" ad and regains his ad mojo.
posted by drezdn at 1:02 PM on April 15, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 1:02 PM on April 15, 2015 [5 favorites]
Oh another client I worked on. So far I have shared these accounts with SCDPLETTERS:
Hilton
P&G
Madison Square Garden
Old El Paso
(Hm, I feel like there are some more that I'm not remembering).
posted by sweetkid at 1:13 PM on April 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
Hilton
P&G
Madison Square Garden
Old El Paso
(Hm, I feel like there are some more that I'm not remembering).
posted by sweetkid at 1:13 PM on April 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
Did Tom and Lorenzo watch the same show I did?
When they were married, she rarely repeated outfits and almost always sported something entirely new every time she appeared. Now? She’s last year’s style.
Actually, she repeated outfits as copywriter, married to Don. First appearance of the Sad Sherbet dress. Second appearance and their callback to it. Maybe they don't remember what they've written, either. Here's the houndstooth I know I've seen before. Nope, it was polka dots, but very similar setting.
[Megan] literally packed up everything and took it with her, along with a check for a million dollars. “I don’t want anything” to “I’m taking everything.”
Uh, hello, Marie did it. Even if Megan didn't stop it, she didn't NOT STOP IT while wearing the jeans.
Diana's slip was drab? It was nude. The style was nearly identical, down to the matching bra. It's NUDE. She's NAKED, exposing herself to Don and sitting, bare, in Sally's room, starting to reveal her true story.
I meant to mention, and will, now that I've seen the stills, that the restaurant reminds me of the old Steak and Ale restaurants. I think I took my last meal in there in 2006; mold on the cheese in the salad bar (on cheese what wasn't supposed to be blue).
posted by tilde at 1:19 PM on April 15, 2015 [4 favorites]
When they were married, she rarely repeated outfits and almost always sported something entirely new every time she appeared. Now? She’s last year’s style.
Actually, she repeated outfits as copywriter, married to Don. First appearance of the Sad Sherbet dress. Second appearance and their callback to it. Maybe they don't remember what they've written, either. Here's the houndstooth I know I've seen before. Nope, it was polka dots, but very similar setting.
[Megan] literally packed up everything and took it with her, along with a check for a million dollars. “I don’t want anything” to “I’m taking everything.”
Uh, hello, Marie did it. Even if Megan didn't stop it, she didn't NOT STOP IT while wearing the jeans.
Diana's slip was drab? It was nude. The style was nearly identical, down to the matching bra. It's NUDE. She's NAKED, exposing herself to Don and sitting, bare, in Sally's room, starting to reveal her true story.
I meant to mention, and will, now that I've seen the stills, that the restaurant reminds me of the old Steak and Ale restaurants. I think I took my last meal in there in 2006; mold on the cheese in the salad bar (on cheese what wasn't supposed to be blue).
posted by tilde at 1:19 PM on April 15, 2015 [4 favorites]
Uh, hello, Marie did it. Even if Megan didn't stop it, she didn't NOT STOP IT while wearing the jeans.
I think their point was while she was wearing jeans she was thwarting her mother's attempts to take more. She said "I've got everything I want." Even then, it's a pretty thin connection.
posted by dry white toast at 1:39 PM on April 15, 2015
I think their point was while she was wearing jeans she was thwarting her mother's attempts to take more. She said "I've got everything I want." Even then, it's a pretty thin connection.
posted by dry white toast at 1:39 PM on April 15, 2015
A note on the Mets pennant. We're in Spring 1970, right? That means that just six months prior, the Mets won the World Series (on October 16, 1969 - I know this because I was born on that day, in fact my mother was already in labor but they wouldn't leave for the hospital until they made the last out). Winning the series was HUGE news back then, and I can totally see Don laying claim to that pennant, which was probably mouldering in a closet somewhere in the office. Like someone upthread said, the office is really his home now. (Not sure what that means for a return of Dick Whitman, though; maybe Don/Dick just disappears altogether, having lost all sense of self in either persona.)
Anyway.
Let's go Mets!
posted by flyingsquirrel at 3:53 PM on April 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
Anyway.
Let's go Mets!
posted by flyingsquirrel at 3:53 PM on April 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't know about moldering. Don had definitely tacked up the pennant before, when he discovered it sometime after Lane's death.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:05 PM on April 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Chrysostom at 4:05 PM on April 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
Right! Forgot about that. Smart man, our Don.
posted by flyingsquirrel at 4:25 PM on April 15, 2015
posted by flyingsquirrel at 4:25 PM on April 15, 2015
Did the show address the success of the Knicks in 1970?
posted by drezdn at 8:45 PM on April 15, 2015
posted by drezdn at 8:45 PM on April 15, 2015
tilde, wrt Mad Style, well said.
I object to this, also:
Note that the one time she’s not in a service uniform, she pushes Don away and puts her own desires ahead of his.
Because come on, first time we encountered Di, she wasn't exactly looking for attention. She was looking to disappear. Why on earth would this woman who has lost one child and left another CARE about Don's (deeply complicated) desires? Why should she? Diana is basically Don at one of his lowest points. Her past is deeply complicated too. That he's seeking connection at this moment doesn't mean she is.
[But it's difficult, because obviously she identifies with Don too and clings to connection in some ways while rejecting it in others. Which Don has also done, over and over. And I'm not 100% sure TLo are judging that reaction as opposed to just observing it; so I'm not certain my kneejerk reaction to seeing that analysis as gender-biased is fair.]
Also tilde thanks for reminding me of Steak & Ale. Oh so nostalgic and to think if you hadn't mentioned it I could have gone to my death never recalling that place at all! I interviewed for a server position at a S&A in Asheville in the late 80s (didn't get the job).
posted by torticat at 5:02 AM on April 16, 2015
I object to this, also:
Note that the one time she’s not in a service uniform, she pushes Don away and puts her own desires ahead of his.
Because come on, first time we encountered Di, she wasn't exactly looking for attention. She was looking to disappear. Why on earth would this woman who has lost one child and left another CARE about Don's (deeply complicated) desires? Why should she? Diana is basically Don at one of his lowest points. Her past is deeply complicated too. That he's seeking connection at this moment doesn't mean she is.
[But it's difficult, because obviously she identifies with Don too and clings to connection in some ways while rejecting it in others. Which Don has also done, over and over. And I'm not 100% sure TLo are judging that reaction as opposed to just observing it; so I'm not certain my kneejerk reaction to seeing that analysis as gender-biased is fair.]
Also tilde thanks for reminding me of Steak & Ale. Oh so nostalgic and to think if you hadn't mentioned it I could have gone to my death never recalling that place at all! I interviewed for a server position at a S&A in Asheville in the late 80s (didn't get the job).
posted by torticat at 5:02 AM on April 16, 2015
This reminds me that the only one for whom the Donald Draper Reboot really wored was Peggy.
His brother killed himself instead. Sent a box of doom that Pete got.
Rachel was a run away with me and reboot attempt after he got caught by Pete.
I don't know if we count Midge as a reboot or not? He wanted to go to Paris and then ???
He and Bobbie were just on different wavelengths ... he thought it was more real maybe?
He told Lane to suck it up and get over it and he hung himself like the brother.
He tried to mold Faye but it didn't work out well. Who knows what happened to her, MW fell in love with Megan, so so did Don with his Maria von Trapp when he went to close out Anna's estate.
He was honestish with Megan, but he couldn't shape her into what he wanted "no babies is fine, oh, lets have babies, what do you mean miscarriage".
He tried to reshape Sylvia into his pleasure person and she got tired of it.
He went after Diana and she was like yeah no. Hope she doesn't kill herself too.
posted by tilde at 10:37 AM on April 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
His brother killed himself instead. Sent a box of doom that Pete got.
Rachel was a run away with me and reboot attempt after he got caught by Pete.
I don't know if we count Midge as a reboot or not? He wanted to go to Paris and then ???
He and Bobbie were just on different wavelengths ... he thought it was more real maybe?
He told Lane to suck it up and get over it and he hung himself like the brother.
He tried to mold Faye but it didn't work out well. Who knows what happened to her, MW fell in love with Megan, so so did Don with his Maria von Trapp when he went to close out Anna's estate.
He was honestish with Megan, but he couldn't shape her into what he wanted "no babies is fine, oh, lets have babies, what do you mean miscarriage".
He tried to reshape Sylvia into his pleasure person and she got tired of it.
He went after Diana and she was like yeah no. Hope she doesn't kill herself too.
posted by tilde at 10:37 AM on April 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
He also wanted to run away with the schoolteacher but left her in the car while he broke up with Betty for hours.
Man Don And Women is such an epic fail.
posted by sweetkid at 10:40 AM on April 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
Man Don And Women is such an epic fail.
posted by sweetkid at 10:40 AM on April 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
Crap, I forgot Suzanne Farrel. I know that Anna dies, Faye fails the KID TEST spectacularly, and then Betty uses her anger at Glen to put Megan in Don's house after Mrs Blankenship dies.
posted by tilde at 11:01 AM on April 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by tilde at 11:01 AM on April 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think Betty's hatred of Glen stems from him being the catalyst for putting herself in a position to be looked down on by the divorceé. And that after her betrayal (turning him in to his mother, the divorceé, he betrayed her back by preying on her 'out of control' daughter.
posted by tilde at 12:35 PM on April 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by tilde at 12:35 PM on April 16, 2015 [1 favorite]
That poster of Moshe Dayan in Stan's bedroom was really interesting. It kind of echoes Ken and his eyepatch, for whatever odd reason.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:52 PM on April 16, 2015
posted by Thorzdad at 5:52 PM on April 16, 2015
I don't quite get the whole deal with Caroline training Shirley as her assistant.
It's a bit late in the show to introduce this as a pollen, but I got the vibe that Caroline is have some memory issues, recognizes this, and brings in Shirley to help cover it up. Right away, Caroline makes a mistake and Shirley has to correct her. Or the writers just want to have more fun with Roger reacting to things.
posted by mikepop at 8:06 PM on April 16, 2015
It's a bit late in the show to introduce this as a pollen, but I got the vibe that Caroline is have some memory issues, recognizes this, and brings in Shirley to help cover it up. Right away, Caroline makes a mistake and Shirley has to correct her. Or the writers just want to have more fun with Roger reacting to things.
posted by mikepop at 8:06 PM on April 16, 2015
The sombrero is SC&P's token Latino employee.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:14 AM on April 19, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:14 AM on April 19, 2015 [5 favorites]
Ugh, this episode had me and my partner yelling at the screen. It was just too much of itself, like a parody, particularly the way everyone's having inappropriate sex. It felt a bit like that Star Trek episode where everyone gets infected with a Love Virus and acts all crazy. The redeeming balance to it was the bitter nihilism of poor Diana. Her life isn't full of million dollar payoffs and adulterous romps in empty Manhattan fantasy apartments.
I do appreciate that the show is taking its final lap, giving everyone one last scene. Not sure anyone who we're likely to never see again had a happy ending though. I wonder if this season is going to just end on a big bummer for everyone. Poor Sally.
posted by Nelson at 1:02 PM on April 20, 2015
I do appreciate that the show is taking its final lap, giving everyone one last scene. Not sure anyone who we're likely to never see again had a happy ending though. I wonder if this season is going to just end on a big bummer for everyone. Poor Sally.
posted by Nelson at 1:02 PM on April 20, 2015
I sure hope that this show doesn't end in Don's death (so trite and overdone) but it's kinda looking that way.
For a long time, I've been convinced that Don Draper's death will mean Dick Whitman gets to live.
As far as the Diana storyline goes, it felt to me that Diana is very much the female version of Dick Whitman (right down to that apartment, which didn't look out of place for a 1930s bordello) - running from a past life filled with tragedy and heartbreak; but instead of re-inventing herself as Dick/Don did, she's going to face the fact that she is what she has done, that her history is part of her identity. The fact that she rejects Don's gift of a guidebook was telling - she's not following his path.
posted by nubs at 8:57 AM on April 22, 2015
For a long time, I've been convinced that Don Draper's death will mean Dick Whitman gets to live.
As far as the Diana storyline goes, it felt to me that Diana is very much the female version of Dick Whitman (right down to that apartment, which didn't look out of place for a 1930s bordello) - running from a past life filled with tragedy and heartbreak; but instead of re-inventing herself as Dick/Don did, she's going to face the fact that she is what she has done, that her history is part of her identity. The fact that she rejects Don's gift of a guidebook was telling - she's not following his path.
posted by nubs at 8:57 AM on April 22, 2015
I get the purpose Diana fulfils in the story - she's reflecting Don's cycle of running away from grief and obstacles at every turn - but man, was she a flat, chemistryless presence. When Sylvia explodes with color in juxtaposition... damn, that says something.
posted by psoas at 9:58 AM on April 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by psoas at 9:58 AM on April 22, 2015 [2 favorites]
Okay, so just rewatching Time Zones and presumably Torkelson came out of Ken's office when Joan was thrown at Butler shoes, but the final Torkelson actor did not come out of his office. He mentioned Tork but didn't didn't indicate if he were in the meeting or not.
posted by tilde at 8:58 AM on April 27, 2015
posted by tilde at 8:58 AM on April 27, 2015
Diana reminds me of a female Dick Whitman. Especially the way she gazes seriously for a long time, and then says something kind of deep and mysterious (or maybe incoherent).
I was glad to see someone recognize early on that Don is trouble, successfully resist his charms, and reject him.
posted by isthmus at 7:44 PM on May 9, 2015
I was glad to see someone recognize early on that Don is trouble, successfully resist his charms, and reject him.
posted by isthmus at 7:44 PM on May 9, 2015
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
posted by Chrysostom at 9:03 PM on April 12, 2015 [1 favorite]