Legends of Tomorrow: Night of the Hawk
March 11, 2016 5:27 AM - Season 1, Episode 8 - Subscribe
The team follows Savage to an Oregon town in the 1950s, where they suspect he's involved in a string of murders.
I've lowered my expectations as far as they'll go.
I didn't hate it.
Without nit-picking that's as much as I have to say about this episode.
Also, WITH nit-picking, Rip got a direct hit from Chronos and didn't die. I wanted him to die.
posted by FallowKing at 1:58 PM on March 11, 2016
I didn't hate it.
Without nit-picking that's as much as I have to say about this episode.
Also, WITH nit-picking, Rip got a direct hit from Chronos and didn't die. I wanted him to die.
posted by FallowKing at 1:58 PM on March 11, 2016
So, Ray shoots Savage through a window and then... what? Nobody's gonna follow up on that? Do these guys not have object permanence?
That... that might explain a lot actually
posted by zjacreman at 2:26 PM on March 11, 2016 [6 favorites]
That... that might explain a lot actually
posted by zjacreman at 2:26 PM on March 11, 2016 [6 favorites]
Maybe time travel mentally regresses the traveller and that's why they just keep getting dumber and dumber
posted by zjacreman at 2:27 PM on March 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by zjacreman at 2:27 PM on March 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
Relatively enjoyable episode for me, with super-low expectations as well. Rip & Snart as fake-FBI-agents pained my Supernatural-watching heart though. Also anxious for a resolution on where Mick is.
And, yeah, another inexplicable failure to immobilize Savage for Kendra to finish off. Also, now with the Waverider gone, wouldn't Savage be at leisure to kill her for as long as they're stuck in the same time period?
posted by oh yeah! at 2:29 PM on March 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
And, yeah, another inexplicable failure to immobilize Savage for Kendra to finish off. Also, now with the Waverider gone, wouldn't Savage be at leisure to kill her for as long as they're stuck in the same time period?
posted by oh yeah! at 2:29 PM on March 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
wouldn't Savage be at leisure to kill her for as long as they're stuck in the same time period?
Logic, we'll have none of that filth here!
The direction was top notch, but I started face slapping as soon as they started with 'Rock Around The Clock' and the hot rods (because, how else would we know it's the 1950s? Even if car radios were likely).
I'm also disappointed they didn't tie the bird men to Northwind, because this show promised the crazy, and so far it has failed to bring the crazy.
Still, it's been renewed for the next series, so maybe there's hope.
posted by Mezentian at 3:56 PM on March 11, 2016
Logic, we'll have none of that filth here!
The direction was top notch, but I started face slapping as soon as they started with 'Rock Around The Clock' and the hot rods (because, how else would we know it's the 1950s? Even if car radios were likely).
I'm also disappointed they didn't tie the bird men to Northwind, because this show promised the crazy, and so far it has failed to bring the crazy.
Still, it's been renewed for the next series, so maybe there's hope.
posted by Mezentian at 3:56 PM on March 11, 2016
Chronos
Is that his name? By this point I'd just mentally renamed him to "Deus X. Machina, bounty hunter".
posted by mstokes650 at 10:37 PM on March 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
Is that his name? By this point I'd just mentally renamed him to "Deus X. Machina, bounty hunter".
posted by mstokes650 at 10:37 PM on March 11, 2016 [2 favorites]
Hey!!!! Did you know there was a lot of racism and homophobia in the 1950s????!!!
This episode would like to remind you that in the 1950s, there was a lot of racism and homophobia. In the 1950s. With the racism. And the homophobia. And the racism.
Were you aware there was racism and homophobia in the 1950s? Society in the 1950s was racist and homophobic!
Just wanted to make sure, in case you had missed it, that this episode shines a 2010s spotlight on the racism and homophobia of the 1950s. Because this episode emphasizes the homophobia and racism of the 1950s! You might not have noticed it as you were watching; it was very subtle.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 5:32 AM on March 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
This episode would like to remind you that in the 1950s, there was a lot of racism and homophobia. In the 1950s. With the racism. And the homophobia. And the racism.
Were you aware there was racism and homophobia in the 1950s? Society in the 1950s was racist and homophobic!
Just wanted to make sure, in case you had missed it, that this episode shines a 2010s spotlight on the racism and homophobia of the 1950s. Because this episode emphasizes the homophobia and racism of the 1950s! You might not have noticed it as you were watching; it was very subtle.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 5:32 AM on March 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
Did you know there was a lot of racism and homophobia in the 1950s????!!!
That's because white, straight people are THE WORST.
Thank goodness we live now, where people are free to be who they want to be, and if you don't like it you will be shames and silenced.
But, you know, friend, you missed the sexism of the 1950s that was woven though this episode.
It was subtle, I know, but women were not considered the equal of men.
(To be serious, I mostly did not have an issue with the plot, per se, but there was a smidge too much winking about How Smart We Are Now, which had a dash of heavy handed. On the other hand, with a lesbian and a black teenager, and given now artfully this show has treated every issue so far, I think they did quite well. Even if they didn't address the nurses' hats. What what up with those? And where were the red shoulder capes? Or was that just a UK thing. So many questions.)
posted by Mezentian at 5:39 AM on March 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
That's because white, straight people are THE WORST.
Thank goodness we live now, where people are free to be who they want to be, and if you don't like it you will be shames and silenced.
But, you know, friend, you missed the sexism of the 1950s that was woven though this episode.
It was subtle, I know, but women were not considered the equal of men.
(To be serious, I mostly did not have an issue with the plot, per se, but there was a smidge too much winking about How Smart We Are Now, which had a dash of heavy handed. On the other hand, with a lesbian and a black teenager, and given now artfully this show has treated every issue so far, I think they did quite well. Even if they didn't address the nurses' hats. What what up with those? And where were the red shoulder capes? Or was that just a UK thing. So many questions.)
posted by Mezentian at 5:39 AM on March 12, 2016 [2 favorites]
"I should've known better than to fall for a ninja."
I know it's probably the least of the historical/cultural anachronisms that we need to suspend disbelief on, but for some reason hearing the word "ninja" come out of the mouth of a cute 1950s nurse took me right out of the episode. That's a word that didn't even show up in the escapist fiction of that era, let alone in the vocabularies of random white Americans. We were still getting the hang of the concepts of judo and karate back then; ninjitsu would not have even been on the table.
posted by Strange Interlude at 9:59 AM on March 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
I know it's probably the least of the historical/cultural anachronisms that we need to suspend disbelief on, but for some reason hearing the word "ninja" come out of the mouth of a cute 1950s nurse took me right out of the episode. That's a word that didn't even show up in the escapist fiction of that era, let alone in the vocabularies of random white Americans. We were still getting the hang of the concepts of judo and karate back then; ninjitsu would not have even been on the table.
posted by Strange Interlude at 9:59 AM on March 12, 2016 [6 favorites]
Despite all the flaws that are noted correctly in this thread, I thought it was a better episode than last week.
posted by about_time at 5:06 AM on March 13, 2016
posted by about_time at 5:06 AM on March 13, 2016
I would be so much more forgiving towards this show if it would, just once, let Captain Cold use his freeze ray to freeze something.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:50 AM on March 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 5:50 AM on March 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
I would be so much more forgiving towards this show if it would, just once, let Captain Cold use his freeze ray to freeze something.
I suspect freezing something is an expensive special effect, same with actually showing Firestorm.
posted by FallowKing at 1:40 PM on March 14, 2016
I suspect freezing something is an expensive special effect, same with actually showing Firestorm.
posted by FallowKing at 1:40 PM on March 14, 2016
So, Ray shoots Savage through a window and then... what? Nobody's gonna follow up on that? Do these guys not have object permanence?
That... that might explain a lot actually
Given that Ray can apparently disable Savage with one shot, why wasn't he riding in Kendra's pocket through the whole fake seduction, ready to jump out and blow Savage's head off so she could deliver the final killing blow?
I mean, they don't even recover the magic dagger! The one thing he needs to keep killing Kendra and Hawkbro for the rest of time. The one thing they can actually use to kill Savage. Might be useful to keep that, no?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:16 PM on March 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
That... that might explain a lot actually
Given that Ray can apparently disable Savage with one shot, why wasn't he riding in Kendra's pocket through the whole fake seduction, ready to jump out and blow Savage's head off so she could deliver the final killing blow?
I mean, they don't even recover the magic dagger! The one thing he needs to keep killing Kendra and Hawkbro for the rest of time. The one thing they can actually use to kill Savage. Might be useful to keep that, no?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:16 PM on March 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
The writing here was pretty shit, but this episode was directed by Joe Dante and I think it shows. If nothing else, it's much better crafted than the show normally is.
posted by brundlefly at 9:23 AM on March 15, 2016
posted by brundlefly at 9:23 AM on March 15, 2016
I mean, they don't even recover the magic dagger!
I would have been annoyed if they had. Savage had the dagger in the 70s.
I think snarking at them for addressing the racism and sexism and homophobia is silly. One, if they HAD just let the team wander around with nobody having an issue with it then this thread would be lit the fuck up. Two, I didn't think they were that awful about it at all; if they had simply dropped one little bit of repercussion and then never addressed it again that would also be getting picked on (and rightly so).
Instead we have a gay nurse who drops a not entirely subtle not looking for a husband but is a little reluctant when she's not sure whether Sara is a friend of Dorothy or not. The biggest issue with that IMNSHO was really having her be this barely-awakened waif; someone who is closeted for safety but has some self knowledge would have been a less lazy choice than having Sara be the enlightened bringer of encouragement to dream.
On the racism side we have a real estate agent who doesn't really come down too ucky on Kendra other than trying to steer them to another city. She doesn't turn suddenly cold and awful, but she's going to do her part to enforce the social structure. May or may not be more than background radiation level racist.
Party guest makes similar you must be the help assumption with Kendra. Is not great but doesn't quite get her hackles up till Ray really escalates the piss off racist chump stuff.
I think the writing deserves a good amount of credit for showing the privileged 2016 dudes being the most ham-handed and kinda jerky about it. Neither Kendra or Jax is real inclined to take a lot of shit, but both behave like people who are used to having to thread a line about standing up for themselves versus getting into a situation where they could be threatened. Ray blunders around with his usual clueless righteousness, Stein is judgy about Sara giving this nurse some sort of hope and leaving as if it was any of his old straight white dude business. Sara behaves like someone who isn't real inclined to the closet but isn't unaware of her ability to pass.
There's a lot of threads left ignored in annoying ways - did Savage just blow town? What about the corrupt sheriff? - but I think they threaded this needle better than I'd expect from a genre show.
posted by phearlez at 9:26 AM on March 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
I would have been annoyed if they had. Savage had the dagger in the 70s.
I think snarking at them for addressing the racism and sexism and homophobia is silly. One, if they HAD just let the team wander around with nobody having an issue with it then this thread would be lit the fuck up. Two, I didn't think they were that awful about it at all; if they had simply dropped one little bit of repercussion and then never addressed it again that would also be getting picked on (and rightly so).
Instead we have a gay nurse who drops a not entirely subtle not looking for a husband but is a little reluctant when she's not sure whether Sara is a friend of Dorothy or not. The biggest issue with that IMNSHO was really having her be this barely-awakened waif; someone who is closeted for safety but has some self knowledge would have been a less lazy choice than having Sara be the enlightened bringer of encouragement to dream.
On the racism side we have a real estate agent who doesn't really come down too ucky on Kendra other than trying to steer them to another city. She doesn't turn suddenly cold and awful, but she's going to do her part to enforce the social structure. May or may not be more than background radiation level racist.
Party guest makes similar you must be the help assumption with Kendra. Is not great but doesn't quite get her hackles up till Ray really escalates the piss off racist chump stuff.
I think the writing deserves a good amount of credit for showing the privileged 2016 dudes being the most ham-handed and kinda jerky about it. Neither Kendra or Jax is real inclined to take a lot of shit, but both behave like people who are used to having to thread a line about standing up for themselves versus getting into a situation where they could be threatened. Ray blunders around with his usual clueless righteousness, Stein is judgy about Sara giving this nurse some sort of hope and leaving as if it was any of his old straight white dude business. Sara behaves like someone who isn't real inclined to the closet but isn't unaware of her ability to pass.
There's a lot of threads left ignored in annoying ways - did Savage just blow town? What about the corrupt sheriff? - but I think they threaded this needle better than I'd expect from a genre show.
posted by phearlez at 9:26 AM on March 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
All they'd need to do to (narratively) take care of Savage is have someone run to the window and not find him. Like how Michael Myers vanishes at the end of HALLOWEEN. It seems really lazy that they keep doing this sort of thing.
posted by brundlefly at 9:51 AM on March 15, 2016
posted by brundlefly at 9:51 AM on March 15, 2016
I wonder if we're seeing a shift in storytelling, a la the way nobody is shown in transit on shows anymore. Law and Order is probably where I mostly remember this really shifting. Lenny and his partner du jour would walk out of one interview and into another, and we just took it on faith that they drove there and it took time. No need to see Joe Friday exit the station and go elsewhere. Now if you're shown in the car it's because it's time needed to have you in dialog with someone or you're going to get waylaid on the way where you were supposed to be going.
Are these Halloween-era shots of the hyper-competent/tough villain not being in their spot on the ground no longer considered necessary? If they fell in a way they could have survived and gotten away - because we know no other team members were out there to impede him - then are we just now taking it for granted that of course Michael Meyers is not dead on the lawn? Is that maybe a deliberate choice to save the time and ignore the trope?
posted by phearlez at 10:09 AM on March 15, 2016
Are these Halloween-era shots of the hyper-competent/tough villain not being in their spot on the ground no longer considered necessary? If they fell in a way they could have survived and gotten away - because we know no other team members were out there to impede him - then are we just now taking it for granted that of course Michael Meyers is not dead on the lawn? Is that maybe a deliberate choice to save the time and ignore the trope?
posted by phearlez at 10:09 AM on March 15, 2016
The direction was top notch, but I started face slapping as soon as they started with 'Rock Around The Clock' and the hot rods (because, how else would we know it's the 1950s? Even if car radios were likely).
I once wrote a story set in 1957 and wanted to mention a few songs for authenticity's sake; I was horrified when I looked at the actual Billboard charts and discovered how on-the-nose the most popular songs seemed to be. The '50s sounded exactly the way you would imagine.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:25 PM on March 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
I once wrote a story set in 1957 and wanted to mention a few songs for authenticity's sake; I was horrified when I looked at the actual Billboard charts and discovered how on-the-nose the most popular songs seemed to be. The '50s sounded exactly the way you would imagine.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:25 PM on March 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
There's on-the-nose, and there's the theme from Happy Days.
I'm actually surprised, and kinda disappointed, none of the Happy Days cast was in to pay Party Guest #3 or the Corrupt Sheriff.
I mean, if Potsie or Ralph are still alive, they can't exactly be budget breakers.
posted by Mezentian at 4:04 AM on March 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm actually surprised, and kinda disappointed, none of the Happy Days cast was in to pay Party Guest #3 or the Corrupt Sheriff.
I mean, if Potsie or Ralph are still alive, they can't exactly be budget breakers.
posted by Mezentian at 4:04 AM on March 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
"Next" episode (which is, kindly, not clashing with Daredevil):
RIP CROSSES THE LINE IN HIS EFFORT TO SAVE HIS FAMILY
1. Wait, didn't he already do that by forming this team?
2. Wait... please don't let this be Rip-centric.
(Actually the synopsis seems promising).
posted by Mezentian at 7:07 AM on March 18, 2016
RIP CROSSES THE LINE IN HIS EFFORT TO SAVE HIS FAMILY
1. Wait, didn't he already do that by forming this team?
2. Wait... please don't let this be Rip-centric.
(Actually the synopsis seems promising).
posted by Mezentian at 7:07 AM on March 18, 2016
I did a little google-investigating, and I am now forced to agree "Rock Around the Clock" was a poor selection. Why? Because it's from 1954! So while it may be a little lazy as cultural touchstones go -- which is forgivable -- it would, in-story, probably have seemed more than a little tired to the titanic teens of 1958. 1958 was actually a pretty great year for singles (even if it did bring us "The Chipmunk Song"), so maybe we'll hear something a little cooler in the second half; "Twilight Time" is always welcome, IMO.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 2:15 PM on March 18, 2016
posted by kittens for breakfast at 2:15 PM on March 18, 2016
I'll be fair on the racism: I suspect any people of color who grew up in our timeline before the 50's would be weirded out and not quite be used to the social rules. I was really surprised that the team had Ray and Kendra playing married instead of doing it with Sara and having Kendra be the nurse, because they (by which I mean, Stein) probably should have deduced that was a weird thing to have going on in 1958. (But instead they decided to focus on the eh romance of Ray and Kendra* and Sara getting a chance to awaken a new lesbian.) I thought they all got pretty mild treatment what with all the interracial dating going on. Like that girl jumping on Jax all of a sudden and pretty quickly going for his charms in the diner when I was expecting her to make some kind of "why aren't you sitting at the colored counter" remark or something. (That was going on then, right?)
* still beats Carter "So Glad You're Still Dead So Far, Don't Miss You" Hall and the endless fighting and lording it over her, though.
So Vandal Savage was creating bat boys in his basement? Seriously, he just sucks. Though Kendra and Ray's expressions when he showed up with dinner were pretty hilarious. Oh, Ray and your tuna surprise.
Seriously, Savage, you're immortal, you have all the time in the world to chase all the pussy of the world and you're still harping on this one girl? LET IT GO.
I still don't buy that Kendra can kill Savage, but the show would have to end if they actually did anything about him, I suppose.
I wonder what the rest of the gang shall get up to while trapped in the 50's? Okay, I can guess what Sara will do.
Leonard looks lovely in a 50's fedora and suit. I did keep waiting for someone to say that Heat Wave was on ice somewhere in the Waverider storage, though. I'm a bit impressed they keep eliminating cast members this early in the show, but at the same time I figure they're coming back.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:15 PM on March 22, 2016
* still beats Carter "So Glad You're Still Dead So Far, Don't Miss You" Hall and the endless fighting and lording it over her, though.
So Vandal Savage was creating bat boys in his basement? Seriously, he just sucks. Though Kendra and Ray's expressions when he showed up with dinner were pretty hilarious. Oh, Ray and your tuna surprise.
Seriously, Savage, you're immortal, you have all the time in the world to chase all the pussy of the world and you're still harping on this one girl? LET IT GO.
I still don't buy that Kendra can kill Savage, but the show would have to end if they actually did anything about him, I suppose.
I wonder what the rest of the gang shall get up to while trapped in the 50's? Okay, I can guess what Sara will do.
Leonard looks lovely in a 50's fedora and suit. I did keep waiting for someone to say that Heat Wave was on ice somewhere in the Waverider storage, though. I'm a bit impressed they keep eliminating cast members this early in the show, but at the same time I figure they're coming back.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:15 PM on March 22, 2016
I am just relieved that we didn't get a reappearance of terrible no good Hawk Man, which I was worried about when I saw the title.
posted by ktkt at 10:03 PM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by ktkt at 10:03 PM on March 30, 2016 [1 favorite]
It is a very odd show that would look at that design for the monster creatures and say "yes, that is what we want to make the horror center of our episode". Bat Boy indeed.
posted by Nelson at 7:08 AM on January 5, 2018
posted by Nelson at 7:08 AM on January 5, 2018
Popping in from the future to mention that Mr. Dinty and I have been alternating between watching something silly and something more heavy for a bit - right now we're doing Legends of Tomorrow and Lovecraft Country. Which worked pretty well until this episode.
posted by dinty_moore at 7:00 PM on August 31, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by dinty_moore at 7:00 PM on August 31, 2020 [1 favorite]
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posted by Justinian at 1:42 PM on March 11, 2016 [1 favorite]